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ReplayTV and TiVo Compared
j0atz writes "The New York Times is running a story today that, while it's a bit redundant in the beginning and a bit short on technical details later, gives a rundown the newest features for ReplayTV (numbered 4000 or above) and TiVO (Series2); basically, you can program your favorite DVR to record a show from a remote computer or from another (same-brand) DVR. Along with that, you can stream MP3's and pictures with TiVo now.
Still...I'd much rather use something like FreeVo or MythTV and actually burn my shows to cd, stream whatever I want, etc, etc."
From what I understand, you can hack your Tivo series 1 to enable video extraction which you can then burn to DVD. That isn't much more of a hack than a FreeVo, and I expect that the schedule handling of the TiVo is much more advanced than what you will get out of the free systems, albeit much pricier.
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
"while it's a bit redundant in the beginning and a bit short on technical details later"
This article sucks, but hum... here it is anyway.
The New York Times runs an article that's "a bit redundnat in the beginning and a bit short on technical details"? Well, at least they didn't plagiarize, or declare it a quagmire after 2 weeks, so they're improving.
Was speaking with a friend recently and he had heard through the grapevine that the compression done on Tivo video renders very poor quality output, well below that of standard cable TV. I've been thinking of jumping on the PVR bandwagon for a while now but this worries me a lot. Can anyone who has a PVR comment on video quality? How does it compare to things like DivX, VCD, cable TV, satellite etc? I don't want to plug a DVR into my expensive TV and end up with something that makes live cable look awful. Thanks in advance for your insights.
Still...I'd much rather use something like FreeVo or MythTV and actually burn my shows to cd, stream whatever I want, etc, etc.
I guess you never actually TRIED to use any of these apps, have you?
Features are one thing, but when talking about an appliance, it's all in the UI. And nothing free out there yet remotely compares to TiVI's UI.
Whatever! I only buy stuff after the company goes bankrupt. That way you know they won't try and pull any sh*t on you!
"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it." -- Ayn Rand
Why would you want to burn stuff to CD to keep? I filled dozens of VHS tapes back in the 80's with stuff from the TV. Now I wonder why as I rarely rewatched any of it. I guess I was young and had too much spare time. These days there's rarely anything broadcast that I feel is so important to my life that I want to keep it. Why do people want to keep stuff from TV. What is so compelling that I'm not finding when I flip through the channels? It seems to me there are better things to do than waste ones life re-watching things you've already seen. Anybody watched the Royle Family? I find it painful and a rather uncomfortable reminder about the mindlessness of TV.
Still...I'd much rather use something like FreeVo or MythTV and actually burn my shows to cd, stream whatever I want, etc, etc."
Who says you can't do that with TiVo? Also...Compare the prices of hardware you need to decently do a good job doing it your way. Why bother? At most, hack TiVo, put a few HD's in it and rip right off TiVo...at least then you have a hardware encoder and dont have to worry about everything being all shitty, and spending 1k on hardware
Just my 2cents - Rob
In the face of pressure from the tv industry, Replay may be dropping the 30 second skip feature and Tivo doesn't even have it unless you do the little hack and even then it's a pain in the butt. May I suggest taking a look at MythTV - it's a homemade PVR using linux, but if you take a look you'll see that it's full feature. You can schedule shows, the program listings are all there, it notifies you of scheduling conflicts, etc.. it is truly a Good Thing.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur
The ReplayTV series was purchased by Denon & Marantz (makers of higher-end A/V receivers), a company with greater resources that SonicBlue ever had. So really they are better off now than they were before. Buy with confidence.
Still...I'd much rather use something like FreeVo or MythTV and actually burn my shows to cd, stream whatever I want, etc, etc."
/. crowd is still missing a valuable lesson in "building your own tivo" -- it's freaking EXPENSIVE! I love how all the lists of "needed hardware" included multiple super high-end video capture cards -- each of which costs the same as a full TiVo.
The
I love my TiVo (I own two of them). The software rocks. My wife can use it. My 2-year old can use it, and yet I'm still amazed at how powerful it is. Then along comes the OSS community. Builds a competitive box at 3x the price, software that's more difficult to use, and a feature-set that still can't compete. (yay for OSS).
Buy a real TiVo -- you won't regret it.
-- People who hate Windows use Linux. People who love UNIX use BSD.
I would be wary of buying one simply because the future of the service is in jeopardy.
That is some horrible information there. I am not worried about my ReplayTV service that has not had a single problem since my purchase last year. If you haven't heard/read, ReplayTV was purchased by a good company, D&M.
Here's an article
Maybe you should reconsider giving out advice.
Anyway, yeah, it'd be cool to have some kind of software solution to all this (preferably Free software), but as it is, it just doesn't seem feasible, mostly because TiVO hardware is cheap and a large part of what you're paying for is the guide service, anyway.
These are mentioned everytime a TiVo/ReplayTV article is published, do a Google search for MythTV or SageTV
There are much better comparisons available, including http://pvrcompare.com/ , a great site for people considering a PVR purchase.
I own a ReplayTV 5000 series. There is a lot of open source software available for it to allow for endless uses. The best is DVArchive. This software basically emulates a new ReplayTV on your network. It allows you to have an unlimited amount of space for shows (limited by your available HD space) without having to "hack" your ReplayTV. These shows play in real time from your computer just as if they were on the local box. They are saved as MPEGs, so you can easily burn an SVCD or convert to another format.
As for the bankruptcy issue, ReplayTV was bought by D&M, the company that produces products under the Denon and Marantz brands. The Service has and is going to continue as normal. The price for monthly service and lifetime activation are going to increase (they will now be equal to Tivo's), but that does not affect current lifetime customers in any way.
The DirecTV Tivos copy the satellite stream including Dolby digital as they come off the Sat-- so they are as "perfect" as the source-- which means for hi-bitrate channels like HBO, it's not DVD quality, but it's better than any cable I've seen.
:-P
The flipside is that the DirecTivos are more difficult to hack, and I don't think there's any easy way to Hack the HDVR2 (latest and 'greatest')
As others have mentioned, the HDVR2 is plagued with audio issues, while not devastating, still annoying-- and there hasn't been a patch since release-- 8 months ago. Also, there's no word on support for Home Networking for this model, even though the hardware supports it.
I've been too lazy-- but if if I give up on DirecTV sanctioned networking, I'm going to actively persue video extraction options.
Looks like APEX is joining the bunch. This also includes a DVD player, or rather this DVD player includes a DVR. I don't read anything about a service fee either.
ADR-1000
Compatability with DirecTV.
.. they are.. but the DirecTV receiver I needed for it to work was another 150$.
.. buy a refirb DirecTV/Tivo receiver. That was 6 months ago and not a problem since. And Tivo is actually cheaper that way.. 4.95$ a month.
I bought a ReplayTV first... but after trying every way to get it to work with my direcTV receive and failing, I called DirecTV and according to the techs I talked to.. Replay systems are "not supported"
So, I took it back to best buy the next day.
I think looked at rolling my own.. but 1) they didn't compare cost wise and 2) nothing was mentioned with them working well with DirecTV. All the linux/windows packages are geared for Cable Boxes, not satelite.
So, I ended up at plan C)
I must be the luckiest guy in the world....
We just traded our cable box for a PVR through our cable company. We got an integrated PVR/cable box with a 40 hour hard drive, and almost no DRM - we can record everything except pay-per-view. They even let us spit stuff out onto tape if we want.
All for $5 per month. (JOY!)
All the standard PVR features are there, though there's no commercial skip button.
Now, here's the interesting part:
The cable box is from Atlanta Scientific (not sure of the model number - 8???? I think), and declares itself as a Pioneer brand device on the firmware boot screen. The box itself is software upgradeable (by the cable company) and has what looks like:
* RCA inputs (tech told me video source will be functional in a few days, so these may be usable soon)
* 1 USB port
* 2 FireWire ports
* Something that looks like a smartcard slot
Anybody know anything about these and what the extra ports can be used for?
"Lawyers are for sucks."
- Doug McKenzie
Have you ever used a TiVo? I mean, I live in the UK and have both a TiVo and Sky+ box. TiVo's were sold over here, but TiVo marketed it badly and they picked Sky as their partner in the UK (baaad idea!). Sky+ isn't as good as TiVo in many ways, such as the scheduling. With the TiVo, you record things by picking the program name (or lots of other ways I wont go in to), whereas with Sky+ you have to pick by time, or use their very broad 1 day A-Z listings (which are pretty crap). Season passes on Sky+ suck, with no real help with priorities and soforth. The only good things about Sky+ is the fact that you can record something, and watch something else (live) at the same time, the digital sound output, and the fact it records the direct digital stream, and doesn't reencode. The only reason Sky+ can, and TiVo can't, is because Sky is a closed system, they you can't buy CAM's for! If sky were to open their system, it would allow the devolopment of something like DirectTivo for the UK, and mean I don't have to be ripped off by murdoch so much! Don't get me started on Sony and Playstations. . .
If you had a DirecTivo you wouldn't have this problem...it has digital audio out and you are watching the stream live.
The protocol that TiVo uses for it's HMO (Home Media Option) is open. http://developers.tivo.com
There is a Linux server available that I think is better than the official TiVo server already. http://ptivohmo.sourceforge.net. You have to get it out of CVS, but it works great.
The server has a few problems here and there, but it's updated frequently. I use it daily and very rarely have any problems.
I used to have a Replay (Panasonic Showstopper), but bought a Tivo when I went to DirecTV because my local cable provider finally annoyed me enough. I picked up a combined "DirecTivo" unit.
For $199 I got free installation with dish (and they did a great job) and a dual tuner unit (Hughes HDVR2). The HDVR2 records the original data stream from the satellite (IOW, no digital-analog-digital generation loss) so the recorded shows look as good as watching live. My local channels come in over the dish now, and show up in the proper channel slots (2, 4, 5, 7, etc.) instead of up in the 600s or 700s. Satellite, local, and pay per view are all integrated into a slick package.
Cost in time: none. I'm able to log into work from home over a VPN, so I just worked at home the days of installation. Yeah, my cable company still gets me for Internet, but they achieved fiber optics at the curb in my area and reasonably priced megabit access, so that's OK.
The monthly charge for the Tivo service is only $6 through DirecTV for some reason. Honestly, if I have to worry about a $6 a month charge, I have greater concerns that watching television more efficiently.
I read accounts of the roll your own approach, and it just seems like endless hours of annoyance. I like to program and mess about with my computers (I have Macs, PCs and Linux boxen), but I really can't see the point to re-inventing the wheel in this case. They do seem to be getting a little more plug and play, but still... the claims of "it's free this way" completely ignores the value of a person's time.
As for the comparison, I liked the Replay a lot. It was my first DVR, and I had a definite "how did I live without this" reaction. However, I like the Tivo more for three reasons: "to do" list, better conflict resolution, and better search functions.
I like the direct recording of the original data stream, but Replay could just as easily do that in a combo unit, I imagine. I don't care about sending stuff to the computer, so I can't speak to that. Ultimately, it's just TV... that's why I like the DVRs in the first place- they make my TV time much more efficient (and shorter). If I just HAVE to have a copy of a movie, DVDs are cheap.
--- Ban humanity.
You should try the new GPL'd clone of TiVo called GnuVo. It's pretty nice, except it won't let you watch any shows about capitalism.
The Tivo and Replay both support the passing through of the closed caption signal. The compression of the video doesn't affect CC.
However, if you are asking do the boxes themselves actually have the ability to generate CC subtitles, Replay does not. The Tivo Series 1 machines can *if* you have the ability and time to go through installing a separate add on program from here:
TivoVBI
"TK-421, why aren't you at your post?"
SonicBlue is selling the ReplayTV 5040 (including Lifetime activation) for only $329
This is an incredible deal, especially since the price of the activation alone will be $299 on June 1st. The only catch is that it is refurbished, but it still comes with a 90 day warranty.
This is a limited time/quantity offer, so I'm guessing that it won't be available much longer.
More info in the AV Science Forum
Something interesting about PVRs, is that they do more than let you record a show and watch it later. Much much more, and the entertainment industry should be worried.
I picked up a ReplayTV a couple of years ago, and I watch everything through it now, only I'm not watching much of anything these days. I used to be one of those people that was tied to the couch at certain times of the day/days of the week to catch the latest episode of whatever show. Now I just record them so I can watch them whenever I want, whenever its more convenient to do so. The funny thing is, lots of stuff goes unwatched now, and I don't miss it at all. I have picked up this mentality that its there if I want to watch it later, but right now I'd rather go do blah. I'm doing a lot more blah these days, and a lot less couch sitting. I wonder how many other people are feeling this effect?
Casca