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ReplayTV and TiVo Compared
j0atz writes "The New York Times is running a story today that, while it's a bit redundant in the beginning and a bit short on technical details later, gives a rundown the newest features for ReplayTV (numbered 4000 or above) and TiVO (Series2); basically, you can program your favorite DVR to record a show from a remote computer or from another (same-brand) DVR. Along with that, you can stream MP3's and pictures with TiVo now.
Still...I'd much rather use something like FreeVo or MythTV and actually burn my shows to cd, stream whatever I want, etc, etc."
From what I understand, you can hack your Tivo series 1 to enable video extraction which you can then burn to DVD. That isn't much more of a hack than a FreeVo, and I expect that the schedule handling of the TiVo is much more advanced than what you will get out of the free systems, albeit much pricier.
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
They aint the only two you know :P
Over here in the UK Sky makes a PVR called sky+ I'd hazard a guess that its probably better than TIVO and ReplayTV, but the PSX takes the crown with its DVD-+R
There is no god
"while it's a bit redundant in the beginning and a bit short on technical details later"
This article sucks, but hum... here it is anyway.
The New York Times runs an article that's "a bit redundnat in the beginning and a bit short on technical details"? Well, at least they didn't plagiarize, or declare it a quagmire after 2 weeks, so they're improving.
Was speaking with a friend recently and he had heard through the grapevine that the compression done on Tivo video renders very poor quality output, well below that of standard cable TV. I've been thinking of jumping on the PVR bandwagon for a while now but this worries me a lot. Can anyone who has a PVR comment on video quality? How does it compare to things like DivX, VCD, cable TV, satellite etc? I don't want to plug a DVR into my expensive TV and end up with something that makes live cable look awful. Thanks in advance for your insights.
Still...I'd much rather use something like FreeVo or MythTV and actually burn my shows to cd, stream whatever I want, etc, etc.
I guess you never actually TRIED to use any of these apps, have you?
Features are one thing, but when talking about an appliance, it's all in the UI. And nothing free out there yet remotely compares to TiVI's UI.
Whatever! I only buy stuff after the company goes bankrupt. That way you know they won't try and pull any sh*t on you!
"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it." -- Ayn Rand
Why would you want to burn stuff to CD to keep? I filled dozens of VHS tapes back in the 80's with stuff from the TV. Now I wonder why as I rarely rewatched any of it. I guess I was young and had too much spare time. These days there's rarely anything broadcast that I feel is so important to my life that I want to keep it. Why do people want to keep stuff from TV. What is so compelling that I'm not finding when I flip through the channels? It seems to me there are better things to do than waste ones life re-watching things you've already seen. Anybody watched the Royle Family? I find it painful and a rather uncomfortable reminder about the mindlessness of TV.
Still...I'd much rather use something like FreeVo or MythTV and actually burn my shows to cd, stream whatever I want, etc, etc."
Who says you can't do that with TiVo? Also...Compare the prices of hardware you need to decently do a good job doing it your way. Why bother? At most, hack TiVo, put a few HD's in it and rip right off TiVo...at least then you have a hardware encoder and dont have to worry about everything being all shitty, and spending 1k on hardware
Just my 2cents - Rob
In the face of pressure from the tv industry, Replay may be dropping the 30 second skip feature and Tivo doesn't even have it unless you do the little hack and even then it's a pain in the butt. May I suggest taking a look at MythTV - it's a homemade PVR using linux, but if you take a look you'll see that it's full feature. You can schedule shows, the program listings are all there, it notifies you of scheduling conflicts, etc.. it is truly a Good Thing.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur
The ReplayTV series was purchased by Denon & Marantz (makers of higher-end A/V receivers), a company with greater resources that SonicBlue ever had. So really they are better off now than they were before. Buy with confidence.
Not sure if MythTV or Freevo work with DirectTV.
Still...I'd much rather use something like FreeVo or MythTV and actually burn my shows to cd, stream whatever I want, etc, etc."
/. crowd is still missing a valuable lesson in "building your own tivo" -- it's freaking EXPENSIVE! I love how all the lists of "needed hardware" included multiple super high-end video capture cards -- each of which costs the same as a full TiVo.
The
I love my TiVo (I own two of them). The software rocks. My wife can use it. My 2-year old can use it, and yet I'm still amazed at how powerful it is. Then along comes the OSS community. Builds a competitive box at 3x the price, software that's more difficult to use, and a feature-set that still can't compete. (yay for OSS).
Buy a real TiVo -- you won't regret it.
-- People who hate Windows use Linux. People who love UNIX use BSD.
That's all I really needed to convince me. The fact it uses Rendezvous networking technology and has an establish fan/accessory (802.11b hack!) is a further plus.
-I have a gen1 Tivo.
I would be wary of buying one simply because the future of the service is in jeopardy.
That is some horrible information there. I am not worried about my ReplayTV service that has not had a single problem since my purchase last year. If you haven't heard/read, ReplayTV was purchased by a good company, D&M.
Here's an article
Maybe you should reconsider giving out advice.
Anyway, yeah, it'd be cool to have some kind of software solution to all this (preferably Free software), but as it is, it just doesn't seem feasible, mostly because TiVO hardware is cheap and a large part of what you're paying for is the guide service, anyway.
These are mentioned everytime a TiVo/ReplayTV article is published, do a Google search for MythTV or SageTV
There are much better comparisons available, including http://pvrcompare.com/ , a great site for people considering a PVR purchase.
I own a ReplayTV 5000 series. There is a lot of open source software available for it to allow for endless uses. The best is DVArchive. This software basically emulates a new ReplayTV on your network. It allows you to have an unlimited amount of space for shows (limited by your available HD space) without having to "hack" your ReplayTV. These shows play in real time from your computer just as if they were on the local box. They are saved as MPEGs, so you can easily burn an SVCD or convert to another format.
As for the bankruptcy issue, ReplayTV was bought by D&M, the company that produces products under the Denon and Marantz brands. The Service has and is going to continue as normal. The price for monthly service and lifetime activation are going to increase (they will now be equal to Tivo's), but that does not affect current lifetime customers in any way.
The DirecTV Tivos copy the satellite stream including Dolby digital as they come off the Sat-- so they are as "perfect" as the source-- which means for hi-bitrate channels like HBO, it's not DVD quality, but it's better than any cable I've seen.
:-P
The flipside is that the DirecTivos are more difficult to hack, and I don't think there's any easy way to Hack the HDVR2 (latest and 'greatest')
As others have mentioned, the HDVR2 is plagued with audio issues, while not devastating, still annoying-- and there hasn't been a patch since release-- 8 months ago. Also, there's no word on support for Home Networking for this model, even though the hardware supports it.
I've been too lazy-- but if if I give up on DirecTV sanctioned networking, I'm going to actively persue video extraction options.
Looks like APEX is joining the bunch. This also includes a DVD player, or rather this DVD player includes a DVR. I don't read anything about a service fee either.
ADR-1000
Compatability with DirecTV.
.. they are.. but the DirecTV receiver I needed for it to work was another 150$.
.. buy a refirb DirecTV/Tivo receiver. That was 6 months ago and not a problem since. And Tivo is actually cheaper that way.. 4.95$ a month.
I bought a ReplayTV first... but after trying every way to get it to work with my direcTV receive and failing, I called DirecTV and according to the techs I talked to.. Replay systems are "not supported"
So, I took it back to best buy the next day.
I think looked at rolling my own.. but 1) they didn't compare cost wise and 2) nothing was mentioned with them working well with DirecTV. All the linux/windows packages are geared for Cable Boxes, not satelite.
So, I ended up at plan C)
I must be the luckiest guy in the world....
We just traded our cable box for a PVR through our cable company. We got an integrated PVR/cable box with a 40 hour hard drive, and almost no DRM - we can record everything except pay-per-view. They even let us spit stuff out onto tape if we want.
All for $5 per month. (JOY!)
All the standard PVR features are there, though there's no commercial skip button.
Now, here's the interesting part:
The cable box is from Atlanta Scientific (not sure of the model number - 8???? I think), and declares itself as a Pioneer brand device on the firmware boot screen. The box itself is software upgradeable (by the cable company) and has what looks like:
* RCA inputs (tech told me video source will be functional in a few days, so these may be usable soon)
* 1 USB port
* 2 FireWire ports
* Something that looks like a smartcard slot
Anybody know anything about these and what the extra ports can be used for?
"Lawyers are for sucks."
- Doug McKenzie
Wait till Taco posts it again in 10 minutes. Then it'll be GREAT!
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
For those of you who dont know, when you have a TiVo hooked up to your television, you aren't watching "live" TV. You are watching TV from about 1 second earlier. This is required for of the ability to pause or rewind live TV.
This can cause problems. I have Digital Cable from TW which offers Dolby Digital 5.1 surround on some channels and I have a high end audio system. Because TiVo does not have digital audio out nor support for it, I literally have to discontinue to EVER watch a show in digital 5.1 surround because of that 1 second lag in between live TV and Tivo TV. The audio and video aren't synced up.
Also, because you are not watching live TV, video quality suffers even on "best" recording mode. The bigger your TV, the more you will notice. Mine is 65" so I notice quite a bit.
I use one of the alternate video outs (as opposed to "send to vcr" feature) to record directly to an A/V dvd recorder. Very good quality on trasnfer even on medium quality. Using an AV component instead of extracting files is less hassle and you can make the recording as you watch the original. Also, anyone comparison shopping from this article should note that the ReplayTV does have a "wish list" type feature that is integrated into the regular show search (Tivo requires you to set up these requests in an entirely seperate menu feature).
The operating system that runs the TiVo hardware is Linux...just so you know... It is TiVo's value added UI and program guides that make it the premium service that it is. Just like Apple with OS X...
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
Hey,
:)
I recently compared and purchased my first PVR, a ReplayTV 5040 machine. Everyone I know has a TiVo ver 1 and they like it. Why did I choose Replay over TiVo ver 1 or ver 2?
Mainly because of being able to send shows from box to box over ethernet. And to best that, you can run DVArchive on a computer and it acts as another ReplayTV box on the network. You can save shows to it and play shows off of it.
TiVo has crappy broadband connectivity. Ver 2 is supposed to support USB. What additional hardware are you going to have to buy to connect that to something? I've got CAT5 running already out my DSL, I just plugged in my replay, it got an IP from DHCP and that was it.
Also, I found on avsforum.com some of the authors of the ReplayTV software hang out and answer questions. Much nicer then having to contact someone at Phillips.
You can record shows, and play them back whenever you want in both of them, blah blah. But this ethernet stuff is the wave of the future.
-m
http://www.invisik.com
Sticking my neck out I think Microsofts XP Media Center Edition is the best solution out there for PC DVRS. For those of you who can't afford the $1300 price for an MCE machine tag you can download the MCE add on to XP if you are an MSDN subscriber (or search "media centre edition" on your favorite p2p). MCE has alot of great features and the interface is of course very clean compared to the other PC DVR software. There is not monthly cost for the guide, its just, nice.
I could go on. Also, I'm pretty damn sure that TW won't be distributing any cable box that'll let you dump anything via FireWire. Call it a hunch.
ceci n'est pas un sig.
First, the features that D&M is talking of dropping are for future models, possibly to allow for differences between low-end and high-end models.
/. editors when posting the previous story. They were talking about Commericial Advance, which is the feature whereby the unit detects commercial breaks and automatically skips over them for you without pressing any buttons. (That's also one of two features, along with show sharing, that SonicBlue is being sued over--I haven't heard if the lawsuit was transferred as part of the sale.)
Second, the 30-second skip is not one of the features in question. That was a misunderstanding by the
Oh, and ReplayTV also has a x-minute skip available--just hit a number followed by the skip (or instant replay) to skip that many minutes. I've programmed my remote with this sequence so that I have a 2-minute skip button--I use that, and then fine tune it with the 30-second skip and the 8-second instant replay buttons. (I'm beginning to think that 3-minute skip may be better.)
Do TiVo, ReplayTV, or even computer PVRs support closed captioning or open captioning? My wife is hearing-impaired, so that would be a good thing. Or if there are computer formats that support captioning/subtitling, perhaps the captions could be merged into the video file?
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
DirecTV-integrated TiVos are not TiVos in the same way that standalone TiVos are. DirecTV took over all management of the DirecTiVo models, including software rollouts. It may even be that DirecTV has its own programmers maintaining the DirecTiVo code. At any rate, they're responsible for deciding what features to rollout and when.
Currently, DirecTV hasn't committed to offering the 4.0 software or the HMO feature set on their TiVos, but they're paying attention to the success or failure of TiVo's HMO rollout and they'll decide what to do based on HMO's popularity with owners of standalone Series 2 models.
If HMO is a hit, you'll see it on DirecTiVo models. If it's not, you won't. It's that simple.
I just thought I should point out that most of the people who are quoting you $400 for a TiVo unit are quoting you the retail price for a standalone TiVo. Now what savvy Slashdot shopper actually pays retail? :P
The HDVR2 DirecTiVo is $199 if you're a current DirecTV subscriber. Just call DirecTV at 1-800-DIRECTV and request it. That's $199 installed, I might add.
If you're not a current DirecTV subscriber, you can get an HDVR2, a dual LNB dish, and have the whole damn thing installed for $219. Check American Satellite for more.
If you want to stick with digital cable (bleh, why?!) and wish for a standalone TiVo, all you have to do is go to TiVo.com and click on the Buy TiVo link. There you'll see 80GB TiVos for $249. (Note that the DirecTV TiVos can record more programs on an 80GB drive than the standalone TiVos set at Best quality, so don't let that affect your buying decision.)
Finally, if you're interested in video extraction, you can hack the TiVo. If you're not interested in hacking your TiVo, just do what I did: I set up an ATI All-In-Wonder card and hooked it up to the second input of my TiVo. I then used the "Save to VCR" function to archive shows. With a CD burner, I can burn to VCD... if you have a DVD burner, you can burn direct to DVD. "Save to VCR" comes with your TiVo, works well, and doesn't require hacking your TiVo. It makes archiving video a cinch.
When it's all said and done, you could buy two standalone TiVos for less than what you're paying, or opt for the DirecTV option and pay LESS for a TiVo, installation, and 6-8 months of DirecTV service... and you don't have to do any more work other than clicking a couple buttons on American Satellite's website. When you look at it this way, building your own doesn't make much sense!
Simpli - Your source for San Jose dedicated servers and colocation!
ReplayTV is selling refurbished 5040 units for $330 + shipping ($12 for ground/standard), which includes a lifetime service subscription.
I'm not sure what the secret to success is, but the secret to failure lies in trying to please everyone -Bill Cosby
The protocol that TiVo uses for it's HMO (Home Media Option) is open. http://developers.tivo.com
There is a Linux server available that I think is better than the official TiVo server already. http://ptivohmo.sourceforge.net. You have to get it out of CVS, but it works great.
The server has a few problems here and there, but it's updated frequently. I use it daily and very rarely have any problems.
I used to have a Replay (Panasonic Showstopper), but bought a Tivo when I went to DirecTV because my local cable provider finally annoyed me enough. I picked up a combined "DirecTivo" unit.
For $199 I got free installation with dish (and they did a great job) and a dual tuner unit (Hughes HDVR2). The HDVR2 records the original data stream from the satellite (IOW, no digital-analog-digital generation loss) so the recorded shows look as good as watching live. My local channels come in over the dish now, and show up in the proper channel slots (2, 4, 5, 7, etc.) instead of up in the 600s or 700s. Satellite, local, and pay per view are all integrated into a slick package.
Cost in time: none. I'm able to log into work from home over a VPN, so I just worked at home the days of installation. Yeah, my cable company still gets me for Internet, but they achieved fiber optics at the curb in my area and reasonably priced megabit access, so that's OK.
The monthly charge for the Tivo service is only $6 through DirecTV for some reason. Honestly, if I have to worry about a $6 a month charge, I have greater concerns that watching television more efficiently.
I read accounts of the roll your own approach, and it just seems like endless hours of annoyance. I like to program and mess about with my computers (I have Macs, PCs and Linux boxen), but I really can't see the point to re-inventing the wheel in this case. They do seem to be getting a little more plug and play, but still... the claims of "it's free this way" completely ignores the value of a person's time.
As for the comparison, I liked the Replay a lot. It was my first DVR, and I had a definite "how did I live without this" reaction. However, I like the Tivo more for three reasons: "to do" list, better conflict resolution, and better search functions.
I like the direct recording of the original data stream, but Replay could just as easily do that in a combo unit, I imagine. I don't care about sending stuff to the computer, so I can't speak to that. Ultimately, it's just TV... that's why I like the DVRs in the first place- they make my TV time much more efficient (and shorter). If I just HAVE to have a copy of a movie, DVDs are cheap.
--- Ban humanity.
You should try the new GPL'd clone of TiVo called GnuVo. It's pretty nice, except it won't let you watch any shows about capitalism.
I can echo this. Sitting on the floor of my office right this second is a Replay 4160 that I just received today back from Replay support when the hard drive in my unit crashed last week. So I can verify that customer support & RMA functions of Replay are up and running just fine.
Worry not about the bankruptcy, it appears ReplayTV is very much a going concern.
I recently did a lot of research on this topic. Both have good points and bad points. Tivo looks like it'll win as the standard considering that the company that makes ReplayTV (Sonic Blue) just filed for bankruptcy. The bad part about Tivo is that it absolutely will not function without the guide service that you pay them for. ReplayTV will work without the service but it functions more like a vcr that way (but with all of the nice things about digital like no rewinding, etc.).
The other main function I wanted was the ability to copy the shows to my computer, edit out the commercials, and burn to dvd. Here the ReplayTV blows the Tivo away. First of all, it supports this out of the box with a freely available piece of hacker software that you run from your PC. Tivo requires you to hack the software inside the Tivo which can be re-hacked by the Tivo software downloads anytime the company feels like making a change. Second, ReplayTV captures the audio and video at the right resolution and sampling rate for DVD. With the Tivo, you'd have to convert it after downloading it. Video conversion is very time consuming and really a pain in the ass.
After weighing all the pros and cons, I decided to go with the ReplayTV. If the company that bought up Sonic Blue's assets discontinues the guide service, I can still use it. All of the downloading pluses outweigh the instability factor.
SonicBlue is selling the ReplayTV 5040 (including Lifetime activation) for only $329
This is an incredible deal, especially since the price of the activation alone will be $299 on June 1st. The only catch is that it is refurbished, but it still comes with a 90 day warranty.
This is a limited time/quantity offer, so I'm guessing that it won't be available much longer.
More info in the AV Science Forum
Something interesting about PVRs, is that they do more than let you record a show and watch it later. Much much more, and the entertainment industry should be worried.
I picked up a ReplayTV a couple of years ago, and I watch everything through it now, only I'm not watching much of anything these days. I used to be one of those people that was tied to the couch at certain times of the day/days of the week to catch the latest episode of whatever show. Now I just record them so I can watch them whenever I want, whenever its more convenient to do so. The funny thing is, lots of stuff goes unwatched now, and I don't miss it at all. I have picked up this mentality that its there if I want to watch it later, but right now I'd rather go do blah. I'm doing a lot more blah these days, and a lot less couch sitting. I wonder how many other people are feeling this effect?
Casca
Tivo: $250
Permission to use Tivo: $250/life-of-machine or $13/mo
Tivo network hardware: $50
Permission to use Tivo network hardware: $100
Cost to restart all that if the Tivo breaks: $600
Building your own: priceless.
Okay, that is overdone, but I was really considering getting a Tivo until I read about all those additional charges. It would actually be cheaper to build one, and the frustration of doing so would be offset by MythTV's ability to act as a front end for all my emulators and play content I find on the net and even download the weather.
I know its slightly OT, but I bought my Replay in February, and it came with 2 $50 rebates that I had never received. I was ready to accept that I was never going to see my money after the bankruptcy, but then I received a letter from D/M last week telling me that they are honoring my rebates!
The moral of the story is that ReplayTV is in good hands. I cannot stress how good TV is when you have the power to cut out the fat from it!
Sound waves should be free!
And now, in readable form. (Just changed my default to Plain Old Text from HTML Formatted. Sorry, I'm new.)
With TiVo's new networking feature, you must wait several minutes as the show is copied onto the second unit, where it will remain as a duplicate. You lose instant gratification, but gain the freedom to offload recordings from one TiVo to another when the first one's hard drive is getting full.
This isn't entirely accurate. While the ceiling of the bitrate for Best Quality recordings on a TiVo is higher than that of the USB 1.1 ethernet adapter, recordings at other qualities can be watched as they transfer on the receiving TiVo without delays on a clear 100 Mb/s LAN.
And even at Best Quality, my experience has shown that some shows can still be watched as they transfer without delays, depending on how much motion is in them. Series2 hardware running 4.0 (which enables this Home Media Option) apparently do some basic Variable Bit Rate (VBR) encoding. I had no problems watching the original Night of the Living Dead while it was transferring.
Though TiVo hasn't said that 4.0 enables VBR on Series2, my experience with that transfer and being able to store many more hours of G4's Portal at Best Quality (very low motion for the majority of that show) than my TiVo's capacity reports, indicates that some VBR encoding is going on.
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
On a service where I agreed to sign up. and the data is not correlated by name. It's aggregate. I'll never understand this sort of paranoia.
Look, I liked Firefly. It was the #1 Season Pass on Tivo. If the networks would look at Tivo data as well as the outdated Neilsen system, and a few good shows survive as a reasult, then please record my viewing.
The government/multi-national conglomerate has you cataloged 5 ways to Sunday. The "If you're not doing anything wrong you shouldn't mind" attitude is what is losing us all the fredoms someone (obviously neither you nor I) shed blood for. Even up here in the "Live Free or Die" state the cops are forced to conduct roadblocks and peer into every car under the guise of "seat belt enforcement" Of course it's OK, it's "for the children".
This has nothing to do with Tivo. It's a non sequitur shackled to a strawman.
If that's not enough reason to reject even the concept of considering TiVo, you deserve the compartmentalized, regimented, programmed, bought and sold little life you live. Freedom, privacy, and self-respect are lost in little bits, and that is also how they are taken back.
Do you even realize that *you* are about 5 times scarier than anything you mentioned? You're an ideologue, dude. You lump everything together into one, vast boogeyman. Seat-belt searches and Tivo? Huh? Does that comparison actually make sense in your mind?
I'd offer some suggestions to help, but as far as I have ever been able to observe, ideology is a terminal illness. No one ever recovers. Sorry.
--- Ban humanity.