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First Look at YellowTAB's Zeta
Gentu writes "Great news for the BeOS fans. After Be sold its IP to Palm, many said that the BeOS was no more, but a new startup company from Germany, YellowTAB, was able to get hold of Be's source code and form the future of the never-released BeOS 6 ('Dano'), under the name 'Zeta'. YellowTAB added a lot of new goodies to the OS and brought it up to speed. OSNews features the first ever preview of Zeta with a lot of good information, along with some screenshots."
Redhat announced tday it would skip the 9.0 release and go right to 9.1
If it's a Eugenia Loli-Queru review it can be boiled down to this: "It's not BeOS. It sucks."
Learn to spell: nickel, missile, lose, solely, amendment, speech, kernel, probably, ridiculous, deity, hierarchy, versus
Mandrake may be "user friendly" but I think that compared to SuSE 8.0, it is much less robust in features and hardware support. SuSE has much better support for most of the hardware that I use than Mandrake 9.0, which actually took me a while to configure my ISA sound card. I hope that this distribution will change that.
Who are these people to review anything, if their review consists of skimming the surface and focusing on their pet peeves? Thats how flamewars start - bickering over window managers. Let's talk REAL functionality, things like auto-detection of hardware, capabilities of the install kernel, etc.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
I sent this request to the Mandrake developers at 8.0. As of 9.0, this feature was still not available. Probably won't be there for 9.1, but I can hope.
I can't say that I don't give a fuck. I've just run out of fuck to give.
All my friends and family use Linux 9.0, and now, Linux 9.1 is even better!
I'm glad that a common theme between KDE and GNOME was also implemented by Mandrake. Competing and incompatible desktops is going to really hurt Linux for a while, especially if a user cannot switch between computers and get work done easily. Things such as the Start Menu, Control Panel, background, screensaver, and System Properties have been somewhat standardized in the Windows world. Even newbie users can get these things done on a Windows 95/98/ME/2000 and even XP desktop easily. They are different by close enough to make it a smooth transition. Linux is still not there with competing Bluecurve/Galaxy + KDE/GNOME camps. While the core should still be as configurable like the hacker wants, work should be done to have a standard interface (which can be changed) and standard "desktop configuration" utilities across the major distributions/desktop environments. We have the GNOME control panel, KDE control panel, Red Hat utilites, Mandrake utilities, etc... (include almost every major distribution out there) for everything! Everything is different and everything has a slightly different interface for the same tasks. I even get annoyed sometimes when it takes me a couple extra tens of seconds to find an app due to different menu layouts. And I know lots of other users that really get messed up even with simple things like changing the background or GDM/KDE icons on Linux.
I am frankly sick of her crap. She has become the Jon Katz of interface design analysis. If Slashdot insists on licking her ass every week, they should make an icon of her, so I can put the topic on my ignore list.
...and /.
We have upgraded our webspace from 500MB to 1000MB and traffic allowance from 25GB to 50GB. This is the largest package that our host provides. In order to be able to add more features and functions to our site (especially for developers) we will soon have our very own server.
I think you might need to up your traffic allowance once again.. BAM!
But I have to ask the question:
Who still cares about BeOS?
This is not a troll or anything. I am just curious.
I was never able to use BeOS on my 'puters, since none of my graphics were supported, and, once I started using Linux and *BSD, I never looked back.
So, Be fans, what makes BeOS so special?
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
What does this mean for open beos people?? I would hope the YellowTAB people could keep their source somewhat in the open ala OSX at least.
And they've just zombified it in their pagan voodoo kitchen. I can just hear the start-up sound:
"Braaaaiiiiiiinnsss!"
As the Amiga has been dead MUCH longer then BeOS, I would counter that the Amiga guys are much more fanatical. How else do you explain dropping 2G's on 10 year old hardware? :)
Amiga at least was something sometime.
BeOS still is a "never has been".
Sometimes I wonder if all of the Open Source resources should be pooled into one or two well-polished projects rather than scattered about as it has been. Zeta sounds neat and all, but I'd much prefer to see the developer effort go into making Linux a solid performer on the desktop.
You're telling me I have to pay for my operating system??
Lack of 3rd party apps
Lack of drivers
Lack of documentation
Lack of some useful features (multi-user for example)
This Zeta looks nice, but it won't be successful as long as it carries these problems.
Hardly. Below are two links that have video coverage of Zeta at CeBit2003:0 3.avit a-Prese ntation-CeBIT2003.avi
http://ddanneels.free.fr/Zeta-CeBIT20
http://gravity24hr.com/mirror/zeta/BeOS-Ze
I don't run proprietary closed source operating systems.
Whoop-de-fucking-doo...
Go back to using Linux then! Most people are comfortable using closed-source operating systems & applications.
A commerical company can get a free ad on Slashdot, but the first CD release of an interesting FOSS Operating System can't get a mention for love nor money?
Remember AtheOS? Well now it (A continued development of it, anyway) has just released its first CDs.
I've been swashdotted -- Elmer Fudd
SCO declares that YellowTABs OS "BeOS" is infringing on SCOs IP. According to SCOs CEO Darl McBride: "We ran the BeOS through a machine code debugger and found sections of 10-15 instructions that are the same as those used in our product." SCO says that people need to stop using the new BeOS or face lawsuits.
Darl McBride also said that if YellowTAB were to buy a larger license, like the Entire-SCO-Company "license", the problem may disappear. When asked how a fledgling startup company like YellowTAB could buy SCO, McBride replied: "Right now even a few dollars is better than a counter lawsuit, besides I have my golden parchute. Hahah. Wait, is that tape still recodi...."
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
at let it be conceived first.
for the last time people, I am "frodo from middle eaRTH", not "middle eaST".
Why do the old systems go to Europe to die? Arn't the Germans responcible for keeping the Amiga alive?
Because, if you read the article, it was actually a detailed review by someone who is familiar enough with the subject to peer into the nooks 'n' crannies, yet critical enough not to tout it.
In a day when 4 out of 5 dentists surveyed said reviews are merely ads in disguise, this is a breath of fresh air.
Still trying to figure out why you'd use BeOS. Is there any security value in running, say, a web server, on a niche OS, so that the would-be cracker makes an ignorant blunder and exposes himself?
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
You just look at the screen shots it looks like a highly Configurable fax machine
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
It's not free, that's no good.
It's the people who you describe as zealots who are on the verge of transforming the IT industry and thus our world - who but a zealot would write their own operating system after all?
Maybe BeOS hackers don't have the same transformative potential and Linux kernel hackers, but don't knock it, one of these days you could be running a bit of software they helped devise.
Er... what? :)
Oh..... sorry.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
Oh "understanding what a replicant is" is easy once you administer the Voit Kamph test...
And which dead replicants show up, anyhow? Zora and Priss?
This particular Amiga zealot disagrees! Amiga's were one of the most Incredible Machines ever available on the market. If you never used one, you'll never understand.
The GUI which was interesting 5 years ago no longer is unique - it's now a commodity in the days of KDE/GNOME. So what market is this OS appealing to? Businesses? No apps. Home users? They won't pay. Embedded Systems designers? Possibly, although Linux is free. I'm not trolling - any idea?
It's amazing how every single story about something on OSNews is submitted by Gentu.
/. people, but I am pretty sure it isn't the quality of her writing, or her tolerance for dissenting views.
I have no idea how Eugenia got a free pass with the
Seriously.. this is ridiculous. Save for one story submitted by "Worried" on April 19th, I had to scroll back to March 28th to find one not by "Gentu." And even back that far, the Gentu thing is still the name on almost all of the stories. Its just stupid. Anonymity in story submission only works if you don't choose the same handle each time, sweetie.
They didn't invent a new computer to run this, no. Be already made that mistake once.
...
As you can tell from the nick, I was a BeOS user back in the day. Technically, it was way ahead of anything at the time:
1) The kernel was extremely low latency, and the scheduler was superbly designed for user responsiveness. This was at a time when the low-latency and preempt kernels simply didn't exist, and we were putting up with the 100ms+ second latencies of kernel 2.2. While Linux today has caught up with and surpassed the latency targets, it (even in 2.5) still hasn't managed to reach the same quality in the scheduler.
2) The GUI was very fast and responsive. The theme I use today (dotNET on KDE) is probably similarly complex to Be's native look, but BeOS was still faster, even though I ran it on a lowly 300MHz PII, and I run KDE on my 2GHz P4. It was heavily multithreaded, which made a world of difference for a machine under heavy load. In BeOS, an app's GUI would never freeze up while the app did some background task. This was at a time when GTK 1.2.x and Qt 2.x weren't even thread-safe! Even today, KDE and GNOME have yet to make use of multitheading as effectively as BeOS did half a decade ago.
3) It had a very fast journaled filesystem, with attributes and live queries and everything. This was at a time when ext2 would nuke your installation after a bad crash.
4) It was pretty. It was simple, without being austere, and had a colorful asthetic. It had fully-antialiased fonts back when we had Win9x's "font smoothing" and Linux user's were just happy to be finally able to use TrueType fonts.
5) Long before OS X came around, BeOS had the power of Unix with the simplicity of a Mac. The shell was extremely well integrated with the GUI, and you could even script GUI events from the command line.
6) The API was awesome. It was simple, well designed, and well documented. This was back when GTK+' s documentation consisted of source code.
Of course, these days, Linux has come a long long way from what it was then. It's got a kernel much better than BeOS ever did, KDE and GNOME are catching up in the GUI department, XFree86 has fully accelerated OpenGL, and is getting nifty features like XRender and Xr, FreeType/Xft has some of the nicest looking antialiased fonts out there, etc. But BeOS has stagnated for years, and is much the same now as it was then. It's still quite impressive, but not as shiny as it was in its heyday.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
I looked all over their site and cannot find anything about a PPC version, this is rather disappointing. Anyone know if they plan on continuing it as well?
The failure of BeOS as a mainstream operating system is attributable to 2 missing pieces:
- a superior package management tool, such as apt-get.
- visual basic, an essential requirement for any serious fortune 500 company.
it could also be argued that jean-louis basse as a leader was seriously at a loss to compete with the likes of the uncompromisingly ambitious bill gates, the eccentric marketing genius of steve jobs, or the laughable irrelevance and sheer disregard for personal hygiene of richard stallman.
Looks like they haven't revived the powerPC port that Be once had. I tried out the first couple of preview releases on my old PowerComputing mac clone, and i'd really hoped to see a decent final release. Be was awesome of that machine (210 mHz), and even though it was incomplete (couldn't print at the time), the number of new ideas there were amazing.
The woman states that she doesn't understand what the "Language" feature does, or what the "Strings" options do, then proceeds to bash these things she doesn't understand as stupid useless features... is she thick?
Just because you're english, doesn't mean multilingual capability is a useless feature, egocentric lady...
You managed to make yourself look stupid and have me utterly dismiss your review on the very first page! Good job!
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
As a fellow Amiga owner, I disagree. The Amiga had a spunky graphics chipset, and practically nothing else except the price and loads of games. The OS largely sucked, the hardware was developed too slowly, the incompatibility problems were a nightmare, the diskdrives were faulty half the time, the hard drive units cost too much, there was a lack of non-game software, etc etc.
IIRC, BeOS originally came from France. (Old Europe at work here...) So it rather returns.
The fact that the user has the ability to select applications one by one ... is completely unnecessary and it brings a dreadful Linux-like feeling to the installation
adding useless features like "Stings", application selection and "GCC version choice"
What a dimwit. This is the worst review of anything I've ever read.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Still trying to figure out why you'd use BeOS.
The multimedia capabilities of BeOS are excellent, and the hardware requirements are a lot lower than you would expect. Install BeOS on your Mini-ITX based box, and you will have yourself the beginnings of a Home Theater PC.
Any fool can talk, but it takes a wise man to listen.
All of the ex-Be-Developers and management? Just a few?
Did "Be" basically buy it's OS back?
What is going on here?
-... ---
Thanks for answering with only a slight bit of sarcasm :) I was worried for a second all of slashdot was too jaded to let me know.
I second that.
He's mainly pissed off because it doesn't work so speedy on an old, obsolete computer:
g e= 3
"BeOS was created to run on computers like P90 and P100. I use BeOS and Zeta on this (fast machine by the BeOS standards) dual Celeron 2x533 (which is the machine most BeOS geeks preffered back in the day) and BeZilla/Phoenix is just _unusable_"
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=3692&pa
So we have a guy who wants BeOS to come into 2003, but he's only willing to test it on a machine that was released in 1996.
Idiot.
" Because, if you read the article," .... you'd realize the reviewer is a moron.
The article has that "I'm still going to college, and this is 1978, so excuse my high-school writing style".
Break the reviewer's fingers before he writes again.
... she brings it up in every review piece she ever wrote - as far as I can remember!
"The OS largely sucked"
Not compared to the competition....
What was available in '85...
DOS 3.3?
MacOS 6
Atart ST - GEM
At least you could multi-task, have a command-line, play games, have a unix-like environment with lots of freely-available software.
By today's standards, its pitiful, but by 1985 standards, it was pretty cool to see a PC running many programs at the same time.
Good to see that Sinclair Research has made another comeback with the Zeta. I wonder if they will port it to the QL or to tricycles?
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
Without the GPL or, say, a Win32 emulation thingy, it doesn't seem viable.
Dual CPU boxes are generally too expensive for the performance gain; you'd better off buying a new computer ever 18 months to get better performance and lower cost.
But hey, when you're using a 233mhz dual-processor celeron, I guess you think the world is your oyster.
(hell, the CPU's on Palm devices are faster than that these days)
It actually does support Ogg Vorbis. Or at least I can't see why it wouldn't since Vorbis works just fine on BeOS R5. I compiled it from CVS without any hassle a few days ago.
It would have lots of advantages: use the drivers, packages for Linux, the best GUI for users and programs, no X.
Disadvantages: not open source, doesn't really belong in either world.
"http://www.osnews.com/editor.php?editors_id=1"
I think she's hot.
But you tell me what you think.
More important, what does this mean to the BeBox users out there?
:)
C'mon, don't make me run Plan9 on my BeBox... I wanna play with Zeta too!!!
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
No fair. I wanna play with Zeta on my Bebox too.
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
What about zeta tau alpha? Or more commonly known as Zeta? My gf is zeta and wouldn't care (she loves AOL *sigh*) but it's interesting.
This is my digital signature. 10011011001
Read it again. The BOOT TIME is not speedy. And BeZilla speed is piss poor on ANY MACHINE.
BeOS DOES need to come to 2003, but it also needs to run on machines more than a few years old. Anyway, since when is a dual celeron not a modern machine?
You're a troll with an axe to grind.
Big fuckin deal.
Gentu == Eugenia.
Who doesn't know that?
I didn't mean that to be a flamebait post at all. Sorry for wasting your bandwidth.
i found this a bit of an odd request...
6. No fix for the numlock bug which makes BeOS to not remember if the NumLock was set to ON in the previous booting. Sounds trivial and stupid but really annoys a lot of people.
now i don't know about you, but i generally don't know the state of Num/Caps/Scroll lock every time i reboot my computer. the behaviour i DO care about is that they are consistant every time. numlock status is a CMOS-level (its been there for YEARS!) consistant feature.
so i read the whole review with a pinch of salt if somebody wants their numlock status to persist after reboot, really...
I've got an AthlonXP 1800+, and I've never ever ever ever had an mp3 skip (both windows and linux) unless the mp3 file was actually corrupted itself. Hell, even when I was using my old pentium 233 I only rarely had a skip. I can even have my CPU usage run up to 100% compiling stuff and mp3's still don't skip. I'm just not sure I buy this.
Project Steve
"Non rectangular window support."
Now that would be interesting, round windows. Would be difficult to read text in lol.
"Much work is lost, for the lack of a little more." -Edward H. Harriman
Yeah, but it was a pretty sweet piece of hardware for the time. IMHO the magic of Be was the BeBox, not the user interface. Gotta love that geek port! I was really hoping it'd become the next Amiga.
Instead, it just skipped the "success" stage and went straight to Amiga's "defunct" stage. *sigh*
Chelloveck
I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
Built in single user FTP/Telnet access (good enough for the average user).
Built in web server (single site, but worked very well, and was easy to configure).
Very responsive UI (which most WMs and DEs have given up on).
Excellent multi-tasking (WinXP still can't do this safely and effectively from a desktop standpoint).
For its day, it ruled, don't knock it unless you've actually used it (and its "competitors" at the time). With some heavy development/porting, the new BeOS could be a real winner. Unfortunately, that exactly why it ran out of gas five years ago.
Your wish was already granted. Take a look at Blue Eyed OS, a relatively new take on BeOS. It uses the Linux kernel with BeOS APIs. BeOS apps will run on it, so long as they are re-compiled. It combines the best of both worlds... Linux's stability, network capabilities, and far better device driver support, and BeOS's user interface, among other things. A bootable CD was recently released a month or two ago. You can get it from the web site if you want to try it out.
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." - Oscar Wilde
Didn't want to waste my perfectly good karma, but well...
I don't have anything against Eugenia, but her reviews are only good if all you care about is eye candy and rounded windows. From a technical standpoint, they are completely worthless. She's a web designer, and it surely shows in her way of reveiwing. Personally, I don't give a flying fuck if the Zeta logo is ugly... I tend to care about performance and stability. And no, saying that it boots in 23 seconds in her fabled dual 533 celeron is not a good benchmark.
I do read her reviews, mainly to see the snapshots... If I want a good technical review, I won't go get it from OSNews (nor from /. for that matter). It's a bit like reading Roblimo's articles... from a technical viewpoint they're worthless, but they're sometimes fun... that's it
Ever heard of the Edirol - Roland UA100, the iZ Tech - RADAR 24 & the SX-1 Integrated Audio Production Station? They all use BeOS
The first AC was correct, the reviewer is an idiot.
and by the way, to answer your question: "Anyway, since when is a dual celeron not a modern machine?"
Since 2001 son. Since 2001.
If you weren't such a moron, you would realize the reviewer is a she.
I know!
AmigaOS! That OS is the poster-child for zombie OS'es! And now BeOS will join it. A few people will attempt to drag it's lifeless corpse around in hopes of reviving it but not have the drive, skill or money to make it happen. It'll keep going on and on in limbo.
Too bad. This was a clever OS (Amiga and Be).
-- What's this '-r *' file doing here? -- Oh well, a simple 'rm' should do the trick.
"you would realize the reviewer is a she"
so that explains her lack of writing skills?
Huh?
"Which seems to demonstrate that she's not that biased after all."
After reading it and not realizing this person is infamous, I have to say that for most people, when you do something long enough (in this case, writing reviews), you get better.
If this is the best, the worst must be scary.
She's:
a) not technical
b) stuck in a weird 1998 time warp
c) a web designer
And she writes reviews of operating systems?
Maybe she just stayed in a Holiday Inn last night.
So, Be fans, what makes BeOS so special?
You know how everyone seems to be clamoring for Apple to release Mac OS for intel? Well, that's basically what BeOS is/was.
This doesn't seem like HTML to me though:
http://www.bebits.com/devprofile/1716
neither OS nor college-related, these guys have Zeta pins.
To show their love for fuzzy sheep.
And I do mean love .
It does not have to be with money. It can be with time.
Test it, report bugs, fix code, write documentation, praise it, help people install it.
There are many ways to pay for a free OS and the least you could do is appreciate the developers and do one or all of the above.
You can also sponsor projects or send in donations if you like.
Take Care
Sanjay
Dude, if I had some mod points right now you'd be getting a plus 1, Funny. "the poster child for zombie OS'es" is priceless and soooo true.
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
Internal problems? Maybe, but BeOS never had X! IMO that's reason enough to like it.
BeOS was designed to be the fastest, most responsive desktop OS available. BeOS boots in ten seconds or less on my old hardware - I'd like to see Linux try that. Also, the GUI is about twenty times more responsive than Linux could ever be, by design - and resource usage is a scant fraction of Linux w/X +KDE (which barely runs on my machine). Keep your Linux servers, but try YellowTab when it hits town.
Uhhh... me too.
But 'not techical' people are exactly the target market of Linux desktop distributions or BeOS-Lazarus or Mac OS X. I think OSNews does a good job of pointing out things that people don't want to hear - that often, things are broken or unintuitive out of the box, and that saying 'just run vi and edit this file in /etc' isn't an acceptable answer.
For real end-user testing you need people a lot less technical and a lot more stupid than the average developer.
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
I will continue post only positive things about BeOS until I can afford a Macintosh with OS X! Damn your eyes!
Preview releases? What the hell?
R3, R4, R4.5, and R5 all were released for PowerPC.
- I don't use BeOS much anymore, but I do have a good grasp of its excellence in some points and its suckiness in others, so please forgive me for being opinionated.
Come on, Eugenia... tell us how you really feel.It takes about 15 minutes to install Zeta and it is not difficult at all. However, it is more involved than Be's original Installer and in my opinion, it shouldn't have been.
YellowTAB should have concentrated on fixing this limitation of BeOS' Drive Setup instead of adding useless features like "Stings", application selection and "GCC version choice" that only bloat the installation and do not follow the paradigm that Be had and everyone loved: "keep it simple".
However, what is immediately disappointing is that Zeta takes 23 whole seconds to load on this machine (a machine which has had BeOS 5 on it forever and loads it between 9 and 10 seconds).
First and foremost, Zeta comes with some 400 fonts. Personally, I find this ridiculous.
It takes about 15 minutes to install Zeta and it is not difficult at all. However, it is more involved than Be's original Installer and in my opinion, it shouldn't have been.
She's taken all the Apple Basic programs we wrote in 1978 and ported them to BeOS.
Its like taking a stick and jabbing yourself in the eye.
Don't you guys steal enough from others already? Every damned GUI I see for Linux always wants to look like something else with Windows XP and OS/X being the top two cloned interfaces.
I remember when Be Inc. went under. The largest reaction in the OSS/Linux arena was "so what?", the second was "Will they release the OS under GPL so we can rape and pillage their IP?"
This isn't a troll, this is a serious concern of mine. Don't copy BeOS, don't copy Windows XP, don't copy Mac OS/X! Do something ORIGINAL! Do something new that is Linix/OSS from the ground up. Stop playing catch up and take the lead for once!
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
I bought BeOS stock after I first used the OS. Too bad I still have 10 shares of the damn thing. Thought about selling the stock certificates on eBay to some weirdo. Anyone need some oragami material?
And because you've been such an asshole, I'll point out that its is the plural of it. Perhaps you should have done your English homework last night.
Other than that, the first boot in this beta version of Zeta greets you with two dead replicants Good to see Decker is still taking out the trash.
My patience is infinite, my time is not.
Imagine a Beowolf Cluster of THESE!!!
Be tried to sell BeOS, it failed miserably, then gave it away for free in a last ditch effort to increase interest in the platform, and while extremely neat, the commercial interest remained weak.
Now, it is in the hands of another company trying to sell it again. At the same time, so many groups have extended in very good ways the free edition of BeOS5, and thus this somewhat improved commercial BeOS faces very similar, yet free competition.
I really don't see much hope in this, but it would be interesting to see how they fare.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
You can't steal IP.
When we had sane courts and laws, this was understood, but some morons think ideas can be patented. So we have the current mess.
While the slashdot-summary says that they licensed the source code, this is not true. They currently have a binary-only redistribution license. This is why Zeta is mostly a patchwork of a leaked version of BeOS and freely available drivers and applications, along with some apps that YellowTab developed.
On /. you're suppose to use the officially gay "en" form of plural for box -- boxen.
Well if I enjoyed using "Pc's" at all i'd probably use BeOS as it is most like my os of choice. It does most of the things I care about b.
Does it play Ogg?
Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.
What! no Batman Beyond watchers, and you call yourselves geeks!
"The Atari had Mint "
The Atari ST had GEM as the standard. Oh sure, there were add-ons, but there are add-ons for any OS.
You forget Sys V unix was an official port for the Amiga. Yes! Unix was offered on the Amiga, and Atari had GEM. Oh. And Mint.
As for booting off floppies.... guess what... both machines booted off floppies. HD's were expensive back then (floppies were expensive back then), and so until late 80's these machines primarily were floppy only.
You do know the Tramiels only put together the ST when their Amiga purchase fell apart, right? Yep...the Amiga was supposed to be an Atari, but Commodore bought it out at the last minute. There was even a lawsuit Commodore had to settle with Atari.
The Atari ST was the wanne-be machine. If you couldn't afford an Amiga for the toaster you got an Atari. If you couldn't afford a mac for music, you got an ST.
And *yes*, the Amiga was obsolete by 1990, but what 5 year old technology wasn't? Certainly the Amiga had far better games.
Don't get me wrong, in 1986, the Atari ST was fine, but aside from the Tramiels, the Amiga was acknowledged to be superior, and the Atari ST never had the following the Amiga did. It was Amiga-Lite. I just can't believe anyone still defends the ST.
[god, I haven't flamed like this in 15 years! its like old times again. Lets keep it going!]
A woman wrote the review...
Anyway, for all we know, her faster computer didn't have DMA. And, I do get skipping sometimes in RH9, but I don't have that problem in Mandrake 9.1 (on an Athlon XP 2100+).
That said, BeOS is -very- fast on older hardware, I think that is the point she was trying to make.
I have heard that it is behind me, somewhere in proximity to my buttocks.
When I am not busy writing Linux software, I attempt to come up with strategies to view my sphincter, most along the lines of of jumping in the air while making kind of a twisting motion, such that upon landing I end up facing about 180 degrees from my original position. Then every effort is made to land in a crouched position.
To date, I have yet to see my sphincter, even though I squint and quickly glance in random directions as I land.
Although I did catch a whiff of it once...this happened after a particularly straining attempt at this "sphincter pirouette". It was accompanied by a short sqeaking sound...not sure what that was all about. Maybe I'm getting closer?
Should I ever succeed in my quest, I think I shall name my sphincter "BeOS". On-topic, muthuhfuckuhs!
"Believing a sign of Zeta
beyond the hard times from now"
(and reminded me of the southpark-episode with
Kyle's even more jewish cousin, who can't concentrate in class...)
I love any company that manages things like this.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
The second link you gave is to where they talked about fixing issues in the 2.5 development series with preemption. Perhaps you meant to give a different link?
At this time Linux has as good or better responsiveness than any other OS in the world, short of real time OS'es. It certainly blows windows away. The preemption patch combined with the O(1) thread patch put Linux right on top.
I certainly never hear anything skip when I am playing 5 divx's at the same time and I grab a window and move it around.
AmigaOS....neither am I
Yoda....but you're both as close to being dead as to not make any difference.
I thought she was hot though...
Watchew talkin bout, syphillis?
--3dfx troll
You are correct but still a biased fuckwit.
As you can see I don't care about my karma.
Europeans seem to make much better use of their machines than people in the U.S. This is not just a difference in how they treat hardware, but how they feel about software, too. Many people in the rest of the world don't have the budgets at work or home to have "current" tech, and they just have better sense in realising that learning to use your tools effectively makes you more productive in general.
Maybe it's because they are taxed to poverty.
As you can see I don't care about my karma.
Fucking M$ lamers. You can't stand Linux because you might have to actually know something about your operating system besides Bill Gates name. That is why you are fucked up in the head and anti any other OS. Free or not Linux eats windows lame little ass. Since I pay for my distro it's not exactly free. So far this year $150 USD. What is free about that? Oh I know it must be the "viral" GNU license. Has all you MSCE lamers pissing in your pants. BEOS rules. BEOS will kill Windows. Your Windows users are commiting suicide on the walls of BEOS. Fucking windows lamers we will make your mother cry tears of blood.
BEOS kicks ass. Linux kicks ass. M$ sucks goat balls. SCO is dead. Long live UNIX.
Another great thing that I love about the Dano/EXP codebase -- now found at Zeta -- is the "smooth window dragging", which is explained here better (only visible on CRT monitors, LCDs won't feel the difference). MacOSX is the only other OS that has this feature
This feature as it is explained at the link is also present in windows. So Windows, MacOSX and Beos all have the same feature.. its not really worth talking about in a review unless you are making fun of pre X macos.
Troll feeding time:
Hey you fuck! There is no law anywhere that says anyone has the right to take my money or time away from me for their own benefit. If open source and GNU/Linux are things I want to spend my time and/or money on, that's my own right as a human being. Microsoft, the music and movie industries and the the hardware industry don't have any right to make a profit from me. If I want their crap, I'll buy it. If I don't, then I can use the money that I don't spend on them elsewhere. More than likely that money will be spent on things that provide me with personal benefit. No one has a right to profit from anyone. It is a privelege to profit, and that is what has been forgotten these days. All these fucking companies with their vile grabs for my money. The more they try to take it from me, the less likely I am to spend it. Open source enables me to do this, therefore, it is a good thing. If anyone is a drain on society, it's the companies trying to get me to buy their useless pathetic products by holding FUD over my head. Fuck them. Fuck you. And fuck anyone who comes to your defense. I don't need Windows XP. I don't need a fucking SUV. I don't fear the "terrorists" (there aren't any in the US). I am a fucking rebel because I choose to walk a different path from the sheeple that call themselves Americans.
The faster the better.
YellowTAB comes by default with a number of useful Tracker add-ons, including a brand new one named "Fax these files", which loads a new FAX-It application created by YTAB+friends especially for Zeta.
Because one often needs to fax files to someone, it is important to have an easy way to do so.
I must have done something wrong, but: The copy I had was a store-bought 5.0 version . It was too elite to do any drive formatting . When I gave it a Windows partion to chomp on, it cheerfully accepted it, and then accused me of not having the correct files on the distribution CD. . It came with a big honkin' book which dedicated the first 100 pages to the praises of some leader, including a story of how some programmer screwed up his leg big-time on a retreat, just to show dedication. I do not mean to troll here. I had a bad experience with BeOS. Maybe one of you can help me salvage it by telling me where I might have gone wrong.
My other car is a 1984 Nark Avenger.
Isn't it "old Cathedrals"? or is it "old Bazaars". America has just too much new and unneeded crap.
Why do all people talk crap about X when they mean Xfree? Have you ever tried a commercial X server?
if (!signature) { throw std::runtime_error("No sig!"); }
Hey you fuck! There is no law anywhere that says anyone has the right to take my money or time away from me for their own benefit
Unfortunately there is... it's called taxes...
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
You are wrong. Taxes have always provided *me* with benefits. The roads are taken care of so I don't have to pay any tolls on freeways. If I had children, a base level of education would be freely available to them instead of having to pay exhorbitant fees for a private school. I don't have to buy every book I read, every CD I listen to, every movie I watch or subscribe to magazines or newspapers thanks to free public libraries (one of the THE greatest institutions in the modern world). My trash is picked up with no monthly fee of any kind. Chances are that if none of this was taken care of by taxes, I'd have to pay monthly overinflated prices to private businesses so some fat corporate asshole could get a nice salary and I'd get a shitty service in return. If I take the amount that I pay yearly in taxes and divide it up recently between all public free service I get from it, I'd say it benefits *me* quite nicely. So your argument has no teeth.
OSes are becoming a comodity, they will not ve sold to the general user (specially once Linux and other FLOSS OSes triumph) but will be available for anybody to install them and then add up products and services on top.
This BeOS clone is swimming against the current.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Are you KIDDING? KDE is absolutely godawful in terms of performance, opening Konqueror takes over five seconds on my 1.4GHz Athlon! BeOS file manager opened in under one second on my 500 MHz K6-2. Also, be didn't have for hunderd-bazillion options in every menu, it was CLEAN. I swear, if I had the know-how to rip out the unneeded menu options in KDE I would. A real feat would be to have KDE 'learn' what sets of features you want to use and remove the others.
I know that every option was added because SOMEBODY needed it and had the know-how to put it there, but really, KDE is total overkill.
When I drag a file from one window to another, I don't want it to pop up a menu EVERY TIME, just friggin' MOVE the file, or COPY it if it's on a different physical drive, when I select multiple items and click one to move them, why on earth does KDE de-select all but the one I clicked on? KDE can do it all, but it seems to do everything in the most obfuscated non-intuitive way possible. Linux Human Interface coders should talk to some old-school MacOS users, the MacOS has hands-down the most sensical handling of file management and drag-and-drop on the market, amd has since the debut of Mac System 7.
I don't have much experience with GNOME, as I never really liked what I saw and switched to WindowMaker and Krusader.
You obviously haven't played with BeOS enough, or you don't have an appreciation for simplicity and 'less is more' computing. I think BeOS is what the Mac would have evolved into if apple decided to ditch their Classic environment five years earlier.
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
What? No response? I guess you can't deny that taxes are useful to about 90% of the population in areas where there are taxes. The private sector has no interest in doing anything for the public unless it's going to make them money. And what little they do offer is of the lowest possible quality in order to maximise profits. Taxes vs. Private Sector? Give me taxes any day.
> This is why Zeta is mostly a patchwork of a leaked version of BeOS...
Care to expand where you got this from?
Delayed response... I don't live on slashdot you know, I have a life.
Your benefits are optional. Taxes are not.
I think that pretty much takes care of your argument...
-1 Uncomfortable Truth