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Writing Viruses for Fun and Profit

JMPrice writes "There's a short article over at zdnet that explores a future synergy between viruses and spam, i.e. international crackdown on spam and open relays makes spammers opt to use infected computers instead as relays, and speculates a relationship between the virus writers and spammers."

172 comments

  1. Uhh... by NewWaveNet · · Score: 1, Funny

    ...why is this news? Nobody ever thought they were using secured, well-administered machines in the first place for all their UCE needs.

    1. Re:Uhh... by SlashdotLemming · · Score: 1, Funny

      Woohoo, you win!!
      First "Why is this news?" post!!

  2. Really? by Bluelive · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Has it really become harder for spammers to remain anonymous ? Anyways, if it was really for spamming purposes the virus would just start open relaying.

    1. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > .. start open relaying
      not really
      the developer who pays for 4 M spam masseges does not want that any other spamer uses "his" infrastructure ... ;-)

    2. Re:Really? by joto · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Since most spammers advertise and sell a product, spammer can't be anonymous. At some point you will be able to send money in one direction, and goods in another. This is not particulary hard to track.

      Furthermore, spamming might be more or less legal in different jurisdictions, but you can usually get away with it. Willfully spreading viruses is not something you can get away with. Only very stupid spammers would ever try that technique (as explained in the previous paragraph, it wouldn't be particulary hard to trace the virus back to it's originator)

    3. Re:Really? by stefanvt · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not really, if you make sure it only sends out spam for a limited amount of time the chances of being detected are much lower.

      More like a hit and run technique it is much harder to defend and act against.

      You also don't leave a trail of bread crums behind. It could also be argued that you (the spammer), when charged for spamming, are the victim of an orchestrated spamming.

    4. Re:Really? by Bluelive · · Score: 1

      It needs to be an open relay, if it wass password protect or something it would be much to easy to sue an (ab)user of the open relay for the virus, how could he otherwise have known about it.

    5. Re:Really? by I.A.N.A.T. · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Since most spammers advertise and sell a product, spammer can't be anonymous.

      Hey there idiot...why don't you name for me the advertising agencies behind your favorite products? I'll tell you why, because even though they "sell a product," they aren't the MANUFACTURERS you fucking retard. Spammers don't PRODUCE the shit they email about. And sure, maybe they can identify the prime vector of a virus, but if it's the programmer's home computer he's a stupid fuck that deserves to be caught. In fact, he'd be only slightly smarter than you are.

      Willfully spreading viruses is not something you can get away with.

      This is quite possible the dumbest thing anyone has ever said. Ever. In history. Congrats, retard.

      --
      Just because the U.S. is the greatest country in the world doesn't mean we're superior...oh wait, yes it does.
    6. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You need to distinguish between the spammer and the company using the spammer. You are correct in that a company using spam to sell a product can be tracked but finding the spammer who actually sent the email might be a bit harder.

    7. Re:Really? by anshil · · Score: 2, Informative

      There is something important you forgot, you are not confronting one entity, but two. The ordering customer, and the entity sending the spams. These are usually different. One entity pays the other to send it's spam. The spam customer is not anonymous, the actual spam sender stays anonymous.

      --

      --
      Karma 50, and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt.
    8. Re:Really? by wwcsa · · Score: 1
      Since most spammers advertise and sell a product, spammer can't be anonymous. At some point you will be able to send money in one direction, and goods in another. This is not particulary hard to track.

      This is true, but lets say you've got 75 pieces of spam in your inbox. How do you know which ones were sent by an illegal virus, and which were sent by some dedicated spam server that is (more or less) complying with the law?

    9. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      At some point you will be able to send money in one direction, and goods in another.

      I have sent my money 2 months ago for the penis enlarging pills and am still waiting eagerly

  3. Market speak! by T-Kir · · Score: 4, Funny

    future synergy between viruses and spam

    Sounds like something out of Dilbert... time load up the Bullfighter.

    --
    Are you local? There's nothing for you here!
  4. Huh? by adamofgreyskull · · Score: 4, Insightful
    One clue is, in your e-mail client, the sudden presence of "delivery failure" alerts for e-mails sent to people you do not know.
    Doesn't this come about from people just spoofing your address anyway? If not, Hotmail has a virus problem. :o)
    1. Re:Huh? by Endareth · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Given that I've suffered this myself, with a virus-free existence of some years, I suspect that my email address has been used on several occasions by spammers as a from address due to my use of Spamcop to attempt to report these spammers. This article really doesn't seem too well researched I'm afraid.

      --
      Disclaimer: The above comment was made while under the influence of too much coding and not enough sleep.
    2. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The fault really lies with the people that wrote the code that handles attachments. If you get a file called "log.zip.pif" and it displays improperly as a zip file, then I think that is a bug and a serious one.

      Such a file should be completely identified as a problem...

    3. Re:Huh? by I.A.N.A.T. · · Score: 1

      This article really doesn't seem too well researched I'm afraid.

      Gee, ya think? What gave it away, the moronic conclusions the author came to, or the phrase "this is just speculation" close to the beginning?

      --
      Just because the U.S. is the greatest country in the world doesn't mean we're superior...oh wait, yes it does.
    4. Re:Huh? by redheaded_stepchild · · Score: 1

      Hotmail is a virus problem.

      --
      Don't use the Troll mod just because you disagree with me.
    5. Re:Huh? by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 2, Informative

      Um, you've got it exactly wrong. This happens because you sent email to a friend of yours, and that friend got a virus. The virus uses random email addys from either their mailboxes or their address book as a spoofed from address.

      It's not spammers, it's bugbear. Or whatever the flavor of the week is.

      --

      There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
  5. On the plus side... by kinnell · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Any spammer using this technique will be entering the realms of cyber-terrorism, and will be liable for a big prison sentence and dedicated criminal investigations. Given that spam is advertising, it probably wouldn't be very hard to track the perpetrators down once the appropriate warrants are issued. I predict that either this report is overblown, or a few spammers will end up getting the buggering they deserve in prison.

    --
    If I seem short sighted, it is because I stand on the shoulders of midgets
    1. Re:On the plus side... by dildofire · · Score: 1

      I suspect that if they embedded a nice legal disclaimer in the infecting email (i.e. "by opening this attachment you agree to let spaminc use your computer to distribute spam") it would probably stand up in court. sounds very similar to the current justification they use of people "opting in" to receive spam, or the tricks that pop-up authors use to make people click on them (i.e. popups disguised as system windows, etc).

  6. What cash flow? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Seriously, how many spammers make enough money to be able to pay virus writers any decent sum for their work?

    1. Re:What cash flow? by skurk · · Score: 5, Informative

      Quite a few, I'd guess.

      Some spammers make serious cash, for instance this fellow, who claims to have earned $1k each week.

      Composing another Outlook virus is trivial. Download an existing source (either from usenet or some web page), modify, and start spreading it.

      Any 13yo kid with some programming experience can do this, and if it pays $500, it probably beats mowing lawns for several weeks!

      --
      www.6502asm.com - Code 6502 assembly or.. DIE!!
    2. Re:What cash flow? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      I don't know...though I remember a few Slashdot articles over the past year that mention Spammers making quite a bit of money (not millionares, but not paupers either).

    3. Re:What cash flow? by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      $1K/week is "serious cash"?

      You on Welfare?

      --
      Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
    4. Re:What cash flow? by Pantheraleo2k3 · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'm a 13yo kid with some programming experience, you insensitive clod!

      But you do have a point. Besides, the difference between Outlook and a virus is that a)corporations make you use it b) you have to pay for it c)it's more widespread d)it does more damage.

      Also, most 13yo kids I know hate spam enough not to send any. Not that they have any programming experience

    5. Re:What cash flow? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For the amount of effort involved, it's not too bad. Also consider that the recipient isn't likely to hand over half of that dough to the government. While it's not a golden mountain, it would beat packing up the groceries all day long.

      Not-So-Anonymous Coward.

    6. Re:What cash flow? by sik+puppy · · Score: 1

      Last Thursday or Friday's USA Today had a story/interview with the cajun spammer. (It was on the front page of the Money section.)

      He claims income of $20k to $40k per month. (I wonder what the IRS has to say on that. Wouldn't it be wonderful if he went down for tax evasion? Talk about a law with teeth.)

      On a side note I got quoted in that article - to the effect of "Why does this vermin still have a pulse?"

      His wife had the audacity to complain and wonder why anyone would want to kill him over a "piece of virtual mail".

      Hell, IF I legally could, I'd shoot them both.

      --
      The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers. Shakespeare, Henry VI, Part 2, Act 4, Scene 2
    7. Re:What cash flow? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      $1K/week is "serious cash"?

      It's pretty serious.

      $52,000/yr is a reasonable income... especially if you have to do hardly anything for it. (and very much so if you're in a country whose dollar doesn't compare well to the USD)

    8. Re:What cash flow? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let me know which job that pays more than $4,000/mo just by starting scripts, and I'll take it!

  7. Soblig by gostats · · Score: 3, Funny

    Article: "The virus many suspect to be sending spam is called Sobig"

    Random email: "Please see the attached zip file for details."

    Should I expect to find "herbal remedies" in this zip file?

    .sig
    Like _I_ can be more sarcastic!

    1. Re:Soblig by Spudley · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Should I expect to find "herbal remedies" in this zip file?

      Duh. It'll be a bigger pen1s, of course. What else would you expect to find if you open a zip?

      And for that matter, why did you think this virus is called "So Big?"

      --
      (Spudley Strikes Again!)
    2. Re:Soblig by NumbThumb · · Score: 0

      "Offtopic"? How exactly is this offtopick? It's about spam, isn't it? Maybe he should have mentioned Syphelis, than it would have been about Viruses, too... "Funny" is disputable, but it made *me* smirk... A "Tasteless" or "Rated PG" modifier would be nice, too...

      I want to be able to meta-moderate individual posts!
      Somebody *please* put an and to this emberassing display of ignorance... maybe moderation should not be anonymous after all?

      end of rant. thanks for your attention. BTW: *This* post is offtopick. But relevant anyway. Can't you see?

      --
      I have discovered a truly remarkable sig which this 120 chars is too small to contain.
    3. Re:Soblig by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And for that matter, why did you think this virus is called "So Big?"

      I'm a potato farmer. I thought it might be some new fangled fertilizer.

  8. Classic problem of a mono culture by GreatDrok · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Any biologist will tell you that in an environment where there is only one type of organism, any infection that they are susceptable to that comes along will have catastrophic effects. To avoid this you need diversity. In computing the problem with having windows/intel as the vast majority is that any attack that targets that is going to cause a lot of trouble. Standards that have been implemented on many platforms and architectures are what is needed but that goes against Microsoft's desire for control of everything. However, that desire is doomed to fail because if they fail to take control they fail and if they win complete control they fail because of the lack of diversity.

    it is good to have lots of operating systems and processors out there, anything else would be suicide. With proper diversity we could control both the virus and spam problems.

    --
    "I have the attention span of a strobe lit goldfish, please get to the point quickly!"
    1. Re:Classic problem of a mono culture by kink · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Interesting point, but you put forward the need for diversity and combine that with standards that have been implemented on many platforms. Following your line of thought we really should all be using different ways to communicate in stead of standards, to differentiate and mitigate the risk of an attack that uses one of the technologies. Standard communication protocols are just a monoculture as a "standard" operating system is. I'm more tempted to go for standards and accept the monoculture that comes with it. The "proper diversity" you're suggesting comes at the high price of losing standards; one I'm not willing to pay.

    2. Re:Classic problem of a mono culture by GreatDrok · · Score: 5, Interesting

      No, a standard can be implemented by people using different code bases. If the standard is faulty then it needs to be fixed and each implementation also needs to be fixed to deal with the problem. However, the vast majority of problems with standards come from there being a single code base. For example, SSH. There is code based on the original SSH implementation and code based on OpenSSH. Frequently there is a problem with one or the other but not both. Less frequently there is a problem with the standard itself.

      --
      "I have the attention span of a strobe lit goldfish, please get to the point quickly!"
    3. Re:Classic problem of a mono culture by TallEmu · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "it is good to have lots of operating systems and processors out there, anything else would be suicide. With proper diversity we could control both the virus and spam problems."

      If I follow your logic, you could also make a case that having different taxation laws in every state, city and town would reduce tax evasion. More likely the same amount would go on, but it would be harder to detect and control and police. Who cares if some small guy from Assfuck, Idaho is cheating on his tax.

      With diverse operating systems, there will be precisely the same number of dickheads out there writing malware, but that each would be more focussed for an OS, and perhaps more difficult to detect.

      A Windows trojan is news. There are a gajillion desktops out there to attack. Who is interested in reporting a virus for a niche operating system with a few thousand users? Certainly not the mainstream. What about Antivirus tools, etc. Who is going to write them?

      As for this solving spam... As far as I was aware, the internet is already built using open, diverse (and exploitable) mail protocols.

    4. Re:Classic problem of a mono culture by JavaLord · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A Windows trojan is news. There are a gajillion desktops out there to attack. Who is interested in reporting a virus for a niche operating system with a few thousand users? Certainly not the mainstream. What about Antivirus tools, etc. Who is going to write them?

      I think the authors point was the problem is that there are a gajillion wintel desktops out there. It's great that a windows trojan is news, but I don't think we've seen one that is REALLY malware. Most of them only focus on self-replication and not destruction of the host.

      The problem with the one host enviornment is, if some virus writer decides he is having a bad day and comes up with an exploit that can render all of the windows boxes on the net inoperable then there is a huge problem since 80% of the internet traffic will be gone. (or maybe this would be a solution to some people ;)) Geeky jokes aside, if this ever happened it would cost businesses and just plan old people millions of dollars. Non-Tech savvy People would be reluctant to connect to the net again if they bought a new PC, etc. If half the boxes out there were on a mac, the blow to the net wouldn't be as bad... I'm rambling, so I'll stop now....

    5. Re:Classic problem of a mono culture by I.A.N.A.T. · · Score: 0

      You are such a retarded fuck. Biology != computers, you FUCKING IMBECILE. I'm sure if organisms in your "mono culture" had a choice of opening zip files sent by strangers and getting sick, or NOT OPENING ATTACHMENTS THEY AREN'T EXPECTING and not getting sick, they'd take the less FUCKING STUPID choice. You idiot. It isn't the standards that are causing infected computers, it's fucking idiots like you who don't bother to use a little common sense.

      --
      Just because the U.S. is the greatest country in the world doesn't mean we're superior...oh wait, yes it does.
    6. Re:Classic problem of a mono culture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Organisms exist entirely in the physical realm. It must expose a physical interface to survive. Physical diseases can attack that interface at any time.

      Computers do not exist entirely in the virtual realm. They do not have to expose the same sort of external interface, thus may have nothing for a pathogen to attach to.

      Standards that have been implemented on many platforms and architectures are what is needed

      Would that not also be a monoculture? ;)

    7. Re:Classic problem of a mono culture by efflux · · Score: 1
      If I follow your logic, you could also make a case that having different taxation laws in every state, city and town would reduce tax evasion.

      Tax evasion is totally dissimilar. By *your* logic, a virus is only concerned in infecting the individual computer that someone writes it for. The benefit of diversity is that finding an appropriate target is a little more difficult. Furthermore, if a particular platform is particularly vulnerable, with proper diversity (and the standards to support it), it will likely be dropped.

      I do agree that writing antivirus tools & virus reporting will be somewhat more complicated as well. However, simple propagating e-mail viruses will have a markedly decreased impact on the net infrastructure if the potential rate of infection is cut by a factor of 10 (hell, even a diversity in mail clients can help this).

      As for spam...Yeah... I don't think it'd change a thing.

      As for a previous comment about trojan's typically not destroying it's host (the comment seemed to imply that this was a good thing), I think that these trojans tend to spread so well precisely because it *doesn't* destroy the host--or at least doesn't destroy it quickly). It can't spread if it's host is dead or defunct or spread well if it has behavior that is quickly detected as a virus.

      --
      Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes. -- Walt Whitman
  9. Good! by GrouchoMarx · · Score: 3, Funny

    So if virus writers and spammers are the same folks (or even just partners), that makes life so much easier. Only one group of people to have publically drawn and quartered. Saves time and money (and cleanup costs).

    --

    --GrouchoMarx
    Card-carrying member of the EFF, FSF, and ACLU. Are you?

    1. Re:Good! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd rather see them fight each other to the death. Or how about a A.I Flesh Festival style circus, where we pour acid over them, fire them from canons and pull them limb from limb? I bet we could find millions who'd pay to see that. It could be web cast!

    2. Re:Good! by sICE · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's even worse, i heard the subject of the email sent was "Get a free preview of McAfee PCSecurity Suite -- Complete Protection Against Viruses, Hackers & Identity Thieves"....

  10. write me a (favourable) story by pytheron · · Score: 5, Insightful
    There's no foolproof way to restrict the Sobig variations from getting onto your PC

    I see that the Senoir Associate Editor wrote this piece. That may explain the embarrasingly outdated technology quotes, like One reason for this success is that the latest variants include Zip files, but with reference to the foolproof quote, what I'm inclined to believe is that the makers of ZoneAlarm paid for this sort of tripe (advert on the article). Brown Envelope journalism at it's best !

    --
    "I am not bound to please thee with my answers" [William Shakespeare]
    1. Re:write me a (favourable) story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      Technically correct; there can never be a foolproof way to stop a virus. A really dedicated fool will always find a way to infect themselves. Even if the virus emailed itself to them with a message in 78pt Red Blinking Text saying "HI, A AM A VIRUS. I WILL INFECT YOUR COMPUTER AND DO BAD THINGS. CLICK HERE TO INFECT", fools everywhere will click the damn link. Half of them will claim to have done it "To see what it did".

      There are millions of infected fools out there right now. How can you foolproof against fools of that magnitude?!

    2. Re:write me a (favourable) story by lovebyte · · Score: 1

      How can you foolproof against fools of that magnitude?!

      You are indeed right. I propose a schema to stop office workers from spreading viruses. Anyone caught spreading an email virus will have to spend a week training in using a mail reader in a God forsaken place. For Europe, I propose the following places which I have had the unfortunate to visit for far too long:
      Hanover (D)
      Lille (FR)
      Leeds (GB)

      --

      I'll do it for cheesy poofs.

    3. Re:write me a (favourable) story by Johnny+Mnemonic · · Score: 1


      That may explain a lot of things. I use a computer on the internet, to read email and do other typical things--and I have never been infected with a virus. I don't even use Anti-Virus software to protect my system, at all. I open all attachments sent to me, even those from people I don't know. In short, I use a computer as they were designed to be used, before they were compromised by security failures.

      What's my secret? And it's more than just luck.

      --

      --
      $tar -xvf .sig.tar
    4. Re:write me a (favourable) story by digital+photo · · Score: 1

      Common sense approach to systems is important.

      In the case of the poster, he/she happens to be using a platform the virus can't use. Ie, a Mac.

      I've got three systems at home: Mac X, WinXP, and Linux. Not one of my systems have been hit by virii. The trick? Not using MS email/web/document products.

      The point is that the file needs to get onto your system and the way to do that is to either look at it yourself or your software does. If your software is sane and so are you, then you will avoid the problems of virii entirely.

      Security features are meant to defeat people of problematic views. Outright bad computer user habits compromise the security features of your system.

      My only guess is that you ARE lucky since there are MAC virii out there.

      In my case, it is using better judgement in selecting and installing software.

    5. Re:write me a (favourable) story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For Europe, I propose the following places [...]

      For the USA, I propose:
      Hoboken (NJ)
      Trenton (NJ)
      Newark (NJ)

  11. The problem by Mensa+Babe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The problem is that we are trying to catch spammers, instead of people who sell the very advertised products and services. Just follow the money, people. That way it won't matter how well spammers hide their identity. It all works because someone gets the money, which is absolutely trivial to track. If few CEOs went to jail because their companies' products were in spam, I'm sure other CEOs would at the very least stop to think about it. It is really that simple.

    --
    Karma: Positive (probably because of superiour intellect)
    1. Re:The problem by devilspgd · · Score: 1

      How about the classic joe-job defense? Who do you throw in jail if someone claims they knew nothing about it?

      --
      Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day, but teach a man to phish...
    2. Re:The problem by Monoman · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You are on to what I have been saying for years.

      If my company pays another company to advertise my product and or services and they use illegal advertising methods, then shouldn't my company be punished also?

      Does it matter if my company knew about the advertising methods that would be used? I don't know anyone that would hire an advertising company without knowing what service was being provided.

      --
      Keep the Classic Slashdot.
    3. Re:The problem by Ultra64 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Karma: Positive (probably because of superiour intellect)

      You would think with your "superiour" intellect you would know how to spell superior.

    4. Re:The problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The real problem is that spam email is a business in and unto itself. It's been metioned before (although I haven't yet seen it in this thread) that a lot of the spam being sent out these days doesn't even sell anything. and looking at a lot of the spam I get I tend to agree. Porn's all well and good, but take a look at some of those links. They're on machines that don't resolve. Same goes for your herbal remedies and even credit card offers. Not only do they not resolve, many are plain unavailable. That tells me that they were probably placed (temporarily) on a machine that was hacked and the owner probably didn't initially know about it.
      How many spams have you received/seen that promise millions of addresses? That, from what I've seen, is the real business.

    5. Re:The problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      This type of approach is already taken in many areas of law - particularly environmental law.

      If you generate toxic waste you own it forever. You can pay somebody to dispose of it, but you still own it even when it is 20 feet under dirt. If you pay somebody to bury it properly and they dump it in the Mississippi river you can be sued for cleanup costs.

      The result? Companies now screen and audit their disposal firms. Companies don't just look for the cheapest price when they outsource these jobs. As a result we have fewer polluted lakes.

      You can't allow companies to get blanket immunity by outsourcing work. Just look at how companies are transforming themselves these days. Pretty soon it will be common for fortune 500 companies to have 3 employees: The CEO, the CFO, and the secretary who pays the monthly bill to the company which handles paying all the other bills and collects the net profit check. All the work would be done by hundreds of outsourcing companies. If a regular "employee" breaks his leg on the job he can sue his "employer" - who is probably a sub-agency who legally only has 3 other employees and only $10,000 in the bank and no other assets. They just declare bankruptcy.

    6. Re:The problem by jafuser · · Score: 1

      Equating the responsibility of junk mail with the responsibility of toxic waste really should not require much of a stretch of the imagination. =)

      --
      Please consider making an automatic monthly recurring donation to the EFF
    7. Re:The problem by jafuser · · Score: 1

      [...] whoever hires them is covered, unless they had knowledge of illegal practices by the spammer. How many CEOs are super tech savvy?

      Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it.

      --
      Please consider making an automatic monthly recurring donation to the EFF
    8. Re:The problem by gregorio · · Score: 1

      And what if I advertise your product using illegal tatics? Will you be punished too?

      It's pretty hard to prove that spammer X had a real business connection with company Y.

      I think most spammers don't deal with contracts, taxes and all this kind of stuff.

    9. Re:The problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it.

      Knowledge of the law doesn't mean you can be prosecuted for SOMEONE ELSE breaking it without your knowledge, dumbass. the "ignorance of the law" thing only applies when YOU are breaking the law, not when someone who purports to be a legitimate supplier of legal services breaks it. You fool.

  12. I've seen the future.. by Dynamoo · · Score: 5, Informative
    ..and it stinks. Last week there was a massive "joe job" attack on Doxdesk.com, a site detailing browser parasites, porn diallers and other nasty plugins. The aim of the joe job was to generate fake spam supposedly advertising the site so it would get shut down.

    The spam was being generated from multiple locations simultaneously, and from IP addresses that looked like standard ISP subscribers, mostly in the US and Western Europe. It looks suspiciously like the spam was being sent from Trojanised PCs.

    Bearing in mind that the people most likely to want to force Doxdesk.com off the web were browser parasite writers, it seems to me that there is a definite link now between these parasites, certain viruses/trojans/worms and spammers. Just another bit of proof that these people have no respect for the law.

    --
    Never email donotemail@WeAreSpammers.com
    1. Re:I've seen the future.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think that the viruses/worms are deployed by spammers. Spammers are parasites, they use what's there. Why should they invest something (by paying someone to infect hosts or by doing it themselves)? When an IRC script-kiddy builds a zombie-net, the spammers go piggyback.

    2. Re:I've seen the future.. by buddahAllahElway · · Score: 1

      I think the answer is to use this same tactic against the spammers. If the link between spammers and viruses is strengthened by non-spammers, the crackdown on spam would much more aggressive.

  13. I'm not so sure... by nepheles · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's difficult to see how spammers could remain annonymous. At the moment, they're an annoyance, but if they enter the realm of law-breaking to this extent, it is likely that there will be a major crackdown. And this shall not be difficult, because of the very nature of spam -- to get you to buy a product. Therefore, there must be a link to the spammer.

    It won't work.

    --
    ((lambda x ((x))) (lambda x ((x))))
    1. Re:I'm not so sure... by Matts · · Score: 1

      When you're sending out a virus, or just writing a mass mailer and letting it spread itself, there is no product to advertise. No product means no link. Think of the virus as the "first stage".

      When it comes to doing the spamming itself the spammer is just "innocently" using an open proxy, and while that may be rude it's not considered illegal. It would be very hard to link the spamming and the virus writing in any legal way without access to the machine which created the virus (and finding the source code to it on a spammer's machine), hence the link is purely speculation, but it's based on pretty strong coincidental evidence.

      --

      Matt. Want XML + Apache + Stylesheets? Get AxKit.
  14. Re:oh please by jalet · · Score: 1

    What do you expect to do to suicide bombers ?

    A real suicide bomber is dead, and doesn't care anymore about how you treat him.

    --
    Votez ecolo : Chiez dans l'urne !
  15. This is NOT new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    This has been the consensus at SPAM-L for quite some time. You might want to subscribe.

    Google for SPAM-L's FAQ

  16. Sobig virus by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So, Sobig is a worm that infects your machine and sends spam ? Let me rephrase this : Sobig is a worm that infects your *Windows* machine and sends spam.

    Since Microsoft has started a crusade against Spam (to free-up bandwidth for their own humongous patches and service packs no doubt, they never do anything without a reason), shouldn't they start by fixing the very platform that makes it possible for worms to send spam ?

    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
  17. future README.TXT by Matey-O · · Score: 4, Funny

    Please note, in order for Outlook 20X6 to operate properly, you must first place this workstation on your DMZ for no less than 15 minutes, in order for it to receive IMAP7NukeViagraHGH.D@MM

    This will allow you to have a high speed, reliable, DRM'd Microsoft Email eXPerience! (tm)

    --
    "Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
  18. Idiocy by 0123456 · · Score: 3, Funny

    That would be great. Suppose my market is being threatened by Megasoft's new Office XYZ product that beats the pants off of mine. All I would need to do is send out spams _advertising_ Office XYZ, and the cops would run over and arrest their CEO and put them out of business. Bwahaha!

    1. Re:Idiocy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PLEASE SPAMMERS -- start advertising Microsoft Products.

  19. Spammers & Virus Writers are the same anyway by adzoox · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I had written a slashdot story submission not too long ago that was rejected. Here it is:

    Some Spammers=Some Hackers

    Today's court ruling in favor of the ISP Earthlink vs Spam Ring Leader Howard Carmack got me to thinking.

    Are ALL Spammers doing it for a profit? I find that many to most SPAM emails I receive in my inbox have unresolved links. Meaning; you can't "take advantage of the DEALS you are getting". (not that you'd necessarily want to) What would be the purpose of sending out emails such as this in great quantity, and using the man hours, hardware, etc to do it?

    I think it may have to do partially with "the hacker mentality" Not all hackers do things for the common mythical reasons we like to think they do. (Revenge on the corporate world, profit, fame) - they do it because they can and a lot do it because they are mentally obsessed with it.

    This was the attitude of a former colleague of mine that was hacker. He came from a rich family, was very well known in the community, and had a 1000 easier ways to get what he was wanting accomplished. He was obsessed first of all with hacking, second doing it with a Macintosh, and 3rd just because he could.

    I'm not alluding to hackers having a mental problem, nor really comparing hackers to spammers.

    This ruling, just made me think of motivation. Maybe if we can tap the motivation for Spammers, then maybe we can come up with the solution.

    --
    Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
  20. New conspiracy theory by GillBates0 · · Score: 1, Interesting
    A couple of days back somebody brought up a point on this discussion about the W32.Sobig.E@mm worm that the short lifetimes and more or harmless payloads of recent viruses is probably an indication of antivirus companies releasing viruses and worms for fun and profit.

    If that is the case, the popular ./ meme holds good for both spammers and antivirus people:

    1. Release viruses/worms.
    2. Use compromised computers as relays.
    3. Send lots of spam.
    4. ???
    5. Profit
    6. Sell antivirus software.
    7. ???
    8. Even more profit.

    --
    An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
  21. Tracking by Infernon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Seeing as how spammers are paid for the messages that they send out, how is it possible to track the messages that have been sent using this type of method? If you've got millions of nodes around the world sending messages on your behalf, how do you tell how many you've sent so that you can bill your clients?

    1. Re:Tracking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative
      Seeing as how spammers are paid for the messages that they send out, how is it possible to track the messages that have been sent using this type of method?

      Easy. It's called seeding. Mass mailers and those selling mailing lists use it all the time. The idea is simple; along with the target addresses, the company paying for the mail service plants known fake addresses along with the supposedly good ones. If the known address is used when it shouldn't be or is not used when it should be, you automatically have your tracking.

      How this works in the spammer world, I don't know though I'm thinking that anyone moderately familiar with mass mailing can figure it out in an hour or two.

      Along those lines, though, if the company paying for the spammer's services is that sophisticated they also know that they are paying for an abusive service -- not one strictly made up of 'opt-in' or 'verified interested' people.

  22. The solution by thynk · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm really a good natured person 99% of the time. But, the easiest solution to this is not to fine the spammers we catch. Rather, a few violent and gory executions, broadcast on PPV Friday prime time, and I can imagine that you'd find a lot less spam in your mail box on Monday.

    The same type of solution would work with auto accidents. If you want to reduce the number of accidents, remove the seat belts, air bags and ABS brakes. Line the dash with 6" steel spikes and I can bet you'll find the number of accidents drops to next to nothing over night because we all become the world's safest drivers.

    It's all about incentive.

    --

    Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.
    1. Re:The solution by I.A.N.A.T. · · Score: 0

      Line the dash with 6" steel spikes and I can bet you'll find the number of accidents drops to next to nothing over night because we all become the world's safest drivers.

      How about we just execute anyone who violates even the smallest law? Everything from jaywalking to murder would cease, and there wouldn't be so many people competing for jobs. I think you're on to something here.

      --
      Just because the U.S. is the greatest country in the world doesn't mean we're superior...oh wait, yes it does.
    2. Re:The solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As long as they keep the PPV idea...

  23. simple solution to this problem by Lumpy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Simply institute a fine of $1000.00 per ad to the company in the virus-transmitted spam. They are easy to find as they give you the website/telephone numbers in the spam it's self.

    To hell with the spammers, target the companies in the content.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:simple solution to this problem by iapetus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And the simple gaping flaw in this ingenious solution is that I can now drive you out of business by spamming with your contact details.

      Nice try.

      --
      ++ Say to Elrond "Hello.".
      Elrond says "No.". Elrond gives you some lunch.
    2. Re:simple solution to this problem by chaoticset · · Score: 1

      Hell, don't bother with that. Law takes forever. Technology is fast; send them a few copies of the virus you just recieved. Make their day a happy one too.

      --

      -----------------------
      You are what you think.
  24. not hard, but not effective either. by splerdu · · Score: 5, Informative

    While being anonymous for anonymity's sake isn't very hard to do, it is hard for a spammer to remain anonymous and be effective at the same time. These people are selling products, at the very least they can be traced to the guy who paid them to send the spam.

    Buy our new penis enlargement pills!
    Available at... errr... go figure

    1. Re:not hard, but not effective either. by Anonymous+Custard · · Score: 1

      These people are selling products, at the very least they can be traced to the guy who paid them to send the spam.

      I always thought it'd be a good idea to people who are selling the products, not the advertisers. At least go after the legal liabilities for being in a business relationship with an unscrupulous spammer. That would force the sellers to choose their spammers wisely; for examlpe making sure they have a legitimate list of people who'd really like to be contacted with information about "enlargement" pills. In states where you can sue for receiving unsolicited spam, you should also be allowed to sue the seller, as they basically outsourced their advertising to a spammer.

      You'd have to be careful, though, that someone wasn't sending out offensive spam for a competitor's product, in order to tarnish the competitor's name.

  25. Folks who work for ISPs will be angered... by wowbagger · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Folks who work for ISPs will be angered by this post, but before you hit reply, take a deep breath, step outside yourself for a bit, and think about what I am about to type.

    While ISPs are not to blame for this problem, ISPs are in the position to correct this problem. This is not about fixing blame, it is about fixing the problem. Keep that in mind.

    Now, as I've said in previous posts about this sort of thing, it all boils down to preventing the spread of infection - mathematically, if the expected value of the number of hosts infected by any given host is greater than one, then the infection will be much like a supercritical mass of fissionable material. So the trick is to reduce the expected value to less than one.

    Now, there are plenty of ways to do this, most of which involve the ISP taking some action.
    • Require users to keep their machines virus free, and disconnect them QUICKLY when they fail to do so.
    • Scan outbound email, and drop all mails that have attachments with extensions that do not match the Mimetype (e.g. an attachment with an extension of type .scr but a Mimetype of audio/midi). (Yes, this would not matter had Microsoft correctly implemented Mimetype checking in IE, but they didn't - the OS looks at the file extender, not the Mimetype.)
    • In the same vein, block all outbound mails that contain directly executable attachements. Friends don't send friends programs, and if they must do so, they zip them first.
    • Limit the average user's ability to bypass such filtering - do not allow users to directly send to SMTP, SMB, and NFS ports unless the user have explicitly asked for such access and taken responsiblity for doing so.
    • Upon getting complaints about violations, QUICKLY move to resolve the problem - as in, within 24 hours. If the customer will not or cannot solve the problem within that time, shut them down until they can.


    In short, take responsiblity for FIXING the problem, and force your downstream customers to do the same.

    I have been receiving a steady stream of virus laden emails from udw.ac.za (a university in South Africa). I have repeatedly contacted them as well as their up stream provider (saix.com). All SAIX does is send a nastygram to UDW. All UDW does is experiment in topological auto-proctology. Were SAIX to say "Alright - we've had five complaints this past week. You obviously are not doing anything to solve the problem, so until you do, we are blocking port 25 outbound from you" then UDW would be HIGHLY motivated to correct the problem.

    But right now, most ISPs have the attitude of Mind Over Matter - "We don't mind, so it don't matter. Over and out." As such, the problem persists and grows. ISPs mail servers handle a steadily increasing stream of viruses and spam, for which they complain bitterly about having to buy new equipment (while raising their fees), but they don't actually try to SOLVE the problem.

    If ISPs were to say, "The line must be drawn here. Here, and no further." - if they were to start blocking viruses and spam, disconnecting users that spread them, and requiring their downstream to do the same, then the expected value of the number of hosts any one host can infect would drop to a tiny fraction of 1, and the reaction would damp out. Viruses would not longer spread like wildfire, the news would no longer report upon them, and the virus writers would no longer get egobo from writing them.

    However, as long as ISPs continue to do their best Sgt. Schultz of Stalag 13 ("I SEE NOTHING! NOTHING!") impersonation, as long as ISPs say "It's not our fault - we are not to blame, why should we do anything about it!" then the problem will only grow.

    (/me sits back and waits for the inevitable flames from ISPs wishing to do exactly that...)
    1. Re:Folks who work for ISPs will be angered... by Minwee · · Score: 5, Insightful
      It's a nice idea, but the biggest problem that I can see is that it would make ISPs responsible, in a very real, legal and scary sense, for the content of the packets that they carry.

      As it stands, an ISP is not that much different than the phone company. They connect one user to another and don't worry about what is being said. What you are proposing is that all service providers would spy on their users and take corrective action if they are caught saying the wrong things.

      This would be no different than the phone company terminating your call if they hear you mention the words "pie", "face", "chimp" and "white house" all in the same conversation.

      If an ISP were to take such an interest in what their users have to say, then it would leave them in a tricky legal position -- If they have a policy of shutting down users who traffic in Windows Malware 2002 (tm), then why do they turn a blind eye to such horrible things as kiddie porn, copyrighted music and Harry Potter fan-fiction? The lawsuits would spread like wildfire, and the imminent death of the internet would arrive at eleven.

    2. Re:Folks who work for ISPs will be angered... by radish · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm not an ISP, but I'm a customer of one. Much as I hate spam, if my ISP implemented the measures you described, they would cease to be my ISP. I don't want my ISP telling me what type of attachments I can send (my company already does such checks on internal mail, and it drives me mad, but it's their network so they can do as they please). As for virii, trojans etc, well if I cause an actual problem to their network, or another of their clients, then sure they have good reason to disconnect me. But putting some requirement on me to keep my machine "virus free" (what does that mean anyway?) they will almost certainly end up mandating use of some (commercial, windows only) antivirus package. Great - there goes support for other OSs.

      Where I do agree is in responding to problems. However I've not had so many problems here. In the few occasions where I've had serious problems from people scanning, flooding, whatever, I've complained to the appropriate place (in one case I remember an italian ISP, in another a US one) and it's been fixed. Guess I've been lucky.

      --

      ---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"

    3. Re:Folks who work for ISPs will be angered... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      However, as long as ISPs continue to do their best Sgt. Schultz of Stalag 13 ("I SEE NOTHING! NOTHING!") impersonation, as long as ISPs say "It's not our fault - we are not to blame, why should we do anything about it!" then the problem will only grow.

      Perhaps ISPs are trying to hang on to the "common carrier" protections. If they start to police their networks too much, they may loose these protections (if they have them), thus they may become (if they are not already) liable for any damages performed by any of their users. I dunno - someone who knows more about this care to comment?

    4. Re:Folks who work for ISPs will be angered... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I used to work for a small local ISP (quit not 10 days ago) and I can tell you we don't care that much to do all you're talking about.

      First, our mail system that we started using and are kinda stuck with doesn't do checks on outgoing mail for viruses (iMail). The costs are too high for the small business to add the functionality ourselves.

      iMail now has outgoing spam checking, but when we have your name, address, phonenumber, and you have to call us for setup, etc. we have never had any abuse in terms of spam being sent out by our customers. So we keep that turned off. We did implement an incoming email relay that can support incoming virus checking, but I quit before I had that turned on. Which is a shame because that's probably the most cost effective technique (turn it on in amavisd-new, which is already installed and running SpamAssassin).

      As far as the rest of it goes there's no way we'd have the resources to support it. If we catch someone that has a virus, sometimes we'll get a copy of the virus at our support address for example, then we call them and let them know where and why they should get it fixed. They usually do. But dial-up customers aren't that profitable.

    5. Re:Folks who work for ISPs will be angered... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A couple of problems with this: Money and Common-carrier status.

      The first is almost insurmountable these days. The second would cause them real legal problems in the future.

    6. Re:Folks who work for ISPs will be angered... by jafuser · · Score: 1

      Content monitoring has nothing to do with the post you responded to.

      Disconnecting a downstream customer who does not respond to complaints has nothing to do with monitoring their content.

      If you get several well-justified complaints from different, unconnected sources about someone within your juristiction, you give that person time to respond to the complaints. If he does not respond in a satisfactory manner, you cut him off.

      Simple enough. No content monitoring involved.

      --
      Please consider making an automatic monthly recurring donation to the EFF
    7. Re:Folks who work for ISPs will be angered... by 2Wrongs · · Score: 1

      You make some great points. I'm probably identifying myself as an idiot, but I was running a proxy which was also an open relay (I didn't know). My modem was deactivaed within an hour and I got yelled at. My own damn fault and installed a Linux firewall/router that weekend.

    8. Re:Folks who work for ISPs will be angered... by Jenolen · · Score: 0

      I work for an ISP, and we DO have policies that are pretty close to what you state. We don't inspect mime-types, but they do block executables. Outgoing SMTP has to be sent through our mail-servers to prevent spamming. And it all gets scanned for the spam factor whether incoming for outgoing.

      If you have questions or want to do something similar, just ask me!

      Jon

      --
      Karma is like sex. I can't remember the last time I had either of them.
    9. Re:Folks who work for ISPs will be angered... by Minwee · · Score: 1
      That's funny, the post that I responded to was very specific about "scanning all email" and "blocking all outbound emails" that contain specific content.

      Which post did you think I was responding to?

    10. Re:Folks who work for ISPs will be angered... by FrEaK7782 · · Score: 1
      In the same vein, block all outbound mails that contain directly executable attachements. Friends don't send friends programs, and if they must do so, they zip them first.
      Ok, besides hating the idea that my ISP would block me from sending whatever file type I want, did you not read the article or anything about the latest Sobig? It's files are zipped.

      Blocking everything but zips would not solve the problem. All that would do is re-train the unintelligent users that click on attachments to first unzip the file and then click on it.
    11. Re:Folks who work for ISPs will be angered... by wowbagger · · Score: 1

      There are limits to what problems can be solved - if lusers are so stupid as to unzip attachements they are not expecting there is nothing that can be done to protect them.

      However, you CAN catch the more self-propagating viruses, and reduce the number of viruses out there.

  26. PEBKAC by WegianWarrior · · Score: 3, Informative

    Or for those not so keen on abverbiations, Problem Exist Between Keyboard And Chair.

    Make sure you got the latest anti-virus program. Do not open attachments from prople you don't know. Be wary about opening attachement from people you do know. Avoid HTML-enchanted (ha!) mail like the plauge. If possible, run another e-mail client than Outlook and Outlook Express. Set up and maintain a firewall that can block traffic that goes out as well as in. Use common sence - you wouldn't enter a house of ill repute in real life in fear of a STD, so you shouldn't visit a website of ill repute in fear of getting a virus or worse.

    Seriously... if more people used their heads to think with and was a little more suspious about things, this would not be a problem.

    --
    Everything in the world is controlled by a small, evil group to which, unfortunately, no one you know belongs.
    1. Re:PEBKAC by MrMickS · · Score: 3, Interesting
      How long before someone writes a virus does the following:
      1. Examine sent items folder looking for items with attachments.
      2. Send another message to the same person as a follow up with an infected version of the attachement.
      This would get through most of the operator suspicion filters. If the payload mutates enough to make it difficult to fingerprint it would miss virus checkers as well.

      Taking this into account the problem isn't the operator but an MUA/OS that allows code to be executed in such a manner. Signed documents, trusted sources, etc may help here.

      --
      You may think me a tired, old, cynic. I'd have to disagree about the tired bit.
    2. Re:PEBKAC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here we call it PEBMAC. Problem exists between monitor and chair. Rolls off the tongue a little better than PEBKAC.

    3. Re:PEBKAC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      It may have been an accident, but this has already happened to us with BUGBEAR.B. The virus software vendor for our mailserver sent us an alert to update our virus definitions to protect against this worm. Unfortunately, this arrived minutes before a group of us took the network admin out to lunch for his 50th birthday. So no one got the message. When we returned from lunch, we found nearly every computer in the company infected.

      One of our employees had opened an infected attachment. Bugbear selected an old message with an attachment on her machine, replaced the attachment and sent it out to everyone in the company (and of course some beyond). What did it pick? A message from the network administrator asking people to double check the attached spreadsheet to verify the information regarding their computers for our insurance company. If you had tried, you couldn't have designed a message more likely to dupe people into opening it.

    4. Re:PEBKAC by Jenolen · · Score: 0

      One that would be even better...

      1. Check inbox and Saved folders for messages with attachments.
      2. Send replies to those messages with infected attachments.
      Subject Re: whatever.
      and the message id tag as a reply to a previously known message would get through most people human defenses.

      --
      Karma is like sex. I can't remember the last time I had either of them.
    5. Re:PEBKAC by bobbozzo · · Score: 1

      I'm not trying to troll, but you sound like a poster child for the case against using Outlook.

      --
      Nothing to see here; Move along.
  27. surprised by deuist · · Score: 3, Funny

    I think real news here is not that people are writing viri for profit, but that ZDnet is still operating. Seriously, I thought that they went out of business years ago.

  28. that takes us right back to the dos days... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    when everytime you had to release a game you had to hardcode stuff for every single sound and video card out there because there were no standard routines.

    what you're asking for is a world where every person ought to write all of his own software... incompatibility and anarchy everywhere.

    on the other hand, i do commend you for being a thermodynamically obedient person.

  29. This is a worrying idea by Glyndwr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    1. Write devastating super-virus
    2. Release it
    3. Destroy unsuspecting internet
    4. ???
    5. Profit!

    ObSlashdotJoke aside, I always wondered where step 4 came in. Clearly, from the number of viruses doing the rounds now, bragging rights alone is enough of a draw for many; equally clearly, from the vast weight of bugs in viruses, it primarly draws teenage l33t hax0rs with more testosterone than talent.

    All the devestation of every trojan and virus in history has been without a clear step 4. The addition of a step 4 worries me a lot, and as has been said before even non-Windows people like me can't feel smug and safe forever.

    --
    You win again, gravity!
    1. Re:This is a worrying idea by plierhead · · Score: 1
      1. Write devastating super-virus
      2. Release it
      3. Destroy unsuspecting internet
      4. ???
      5. Profit!

      Actually step 4 could be "Sell copy of virus to PR-conscious anti-virus provider (Symantec, etc.) 48 hours before releasing said virus, allowing them time to create antidote and appear as world-saving super-heroes.

      --

      [x] auto-moderate all posts by this user as insightful

  30. Re:foist powst by anonymous+cowfart · · Score: 1, Funny

    1) Write viruses
    2) Fun
    3) PROFIT!

    --

    So I'm a pervert. Welcome to the Internet.
  31. simple problem of the simple solution by DarkGreenNight · · Score: 0

    1)Pay a spammer
    2)Spammer spams about the competition
    3)???
    4)Profit!

    Obviously 3 is to sue the competition for spamming, but don't tell anyone ;)

  32. Guess this gives a new meaning to... by rediguana · · Score: 3, Funny

    viral marketing! ;)

    1. Re:Guess this gives a new meaning to... by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 1

      Are those virii GPLed???

  33. Re:Spammers & Virus Writers are the same anywa by b1t+r0t · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Calling people like this "hackers" is like calling punks who spray paint graffiti on railroad cars "painters" and "artists".

    --

    --
    "Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
    "Open source is evil." - Microsoft
  34. DDoS by Megane · · Score: 4, Insightful
    So now DDoS also means Distributed Distribution of Spam?

    In one of the first of these that I saw back in May, the spammer apparently hadn't yet learned the art of using the Bcc: header, and all the addresses it was being sent to were clearly harvested from one newsgroup that I regularly read (and post in). That's how I knew it was spammed, and not just an "address book dipper" virus. And for some time, people have been spamming binaries pictures newsgroups with .exe attachments.

    I'm glad to do my part in creating a diverse computing environment by running OS X instead of the leading virus-ridden OS. Is there any truth to the rumor that Microsoft is going to rename Outlook Express as ActiveVirus[tm]? :-)

    --
    #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    1. Re:DDoS by martin · · Score: 1

      I always say Lookout rather than Outlook myself..:-)

  35. Of Course Not by Steve+B · · Score: 2, Funny
    you're saying that people who send bulk email should be treated the same as suicide bombers or people who fly planes into buildings?

    Obviously, you shouldn't treat a suicide bomber or a person who flies planes into buildings the same way you should treat a spammer. Being staked to a red ant hill under a desert sun would have no real effect on (the remaining itty bitty pieces of) the former.

    --
    /. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
  36. Mod parent DOWN! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Moderators! Please mod this known troll down. Thank you. He NEVER posts anything useful or even on-topic, just like this time. THE PARENT POST SHOULD BE -1:OFF TOPIC! Why is it still Score:1?????

    1. Re:Mod parent DOWN! by I.A.N.A.T. · · Score: 0

      i'm glad you posted a "useful" and "on-topic" post. and as AC, no less. good form, sir troll.

      --
      Just because the U.S. is the greatest country in the world doesn't mean we're superior...oh wait, yes it does.
  37. Bad for the business model by ToadMan8 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Simply, those writing spam e-mails are trying to sell something. Spam is (for the most part, before more than now) legal. Taking over drone computers (hacking / virii) to send your spam e-mail is not. You have to make money from your business somehow. If you send spam from infected / hacked computers sending people to your website that obviously collects money for something... well, you have to have a name behind money collection. Someone has to own the paypal account or the charge vendor account... They will find you simply enough. In my mind this whole concept is bogus, as you can't hack or infect and send advertisments. That's like advertising Giant Eagle by spraypainting your daily sales on the front of buildings.

    --
    I haven't posted in so long, my sig is out of date.
    1. Re:Bad for the business model by cdrguru · · Score: 3, Informative
      You miss the point - why do you connect the company selling a product with the spammer advertising it?

      Often, there is an advertising company that charges $1500 or so to "advertise" your product for you. They then pay subcontractors to actually send it.

      Also, often the company with the product gets told the advertising company's list is 100% opt-in. Then, they turn it over to subs with "send this to your list - any list" and include these email addresses...

      Until you make "spam" illegal to send out, you will never stop this. Advertisers absolutely believe they are selling a legal product that there is demand for. And there is - or you wouldn't be getting any spam.

    2. Re:Bad for the business model by b1t+r0t · · Score: 1
      Often, there is an advertising company that charges $1500 or so to "advertise" your product for you. They then pay subcontractors to actually send it.

      And if this money isn't trackable, the Internal/Inland Revenue people are going to be very interested in finding out why. Al Capone wasn't done in by the G-men (FBI), he was done in by the T-men (IRS).

      --

      --
      "Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
      "Open source is evil." - Microsoft
    3. Re:Bad for the business model by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 1
      You miss the point - why do you connect the company selling a product with the spammer advertising it?

      If that connection is made, then some companies are in trouble. One is Symantec. I got plenty of spam offering Symantec products in a notorious spam campaign that happened some time ago. Recently a new campaign started where you get a too-good-to-be-true offer on Symantec products. Except the download isn't from Symantec, it comes from the spammer- meaning you could be running a trojan.

      Reminds me of a nasty one I got a few weeks ago that claimed to be from "update-notification@paypal.com":
      Dear PayPal Customer

      This e-mail is the notification of recent innovations taken by PayPal to detect inactive customers and non-functioning mailboxes.

      The inactive customers are subject to restriction and removal in the next 3 months.

      Please confirm your email address and credit card information by logging in to your PayPal account using the form below:

      Email address: _____________
      Password: ___________
      Full Name: ___________
      Credit Card #: ___________
      Exp. Date(mm/yyyy): __________
      ATM PIN (For Bank Verification)#: ____
      [Log In]
      This notification expires September 31, 2003
      Thanks for using PayPal!
      This PayPal notification was sent to your mailbox. Your PayPal account is set up to receive the PayPal Periodical newsletter and product updates when you create your account. To modify your notification preferences and unsubscribe, go to https://www.paypal.com/PREFS-NOTI and log in to your account. Changes to your preferences may take several days to be reflected in our mailings. Replies to this email will not be processed.

      Copyright© 2002 PayPal Inc. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks and brands are the property of their respective owners.

      Not to imply that PayPal itself isn't a scam outfit, but this particular email obviously comes from a scam outfit that is not PayPal.
    4. Re:Bad for the business model by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a turd.... what did that reference have to do with the topic?

  38. The inplications go WAY beyond that by rutledjw · · Score: 5, Interesting
    SPAMMERS right now are crowing that "we're not doing anything illegal". Aside from using another companies computers/bandwidth/resources without permission and selling products of dubious value - they're right. But all of that is subjective WRT legality.

    Now, if they're using hacked computers, they're on the wrong side of the law. Period. We're not talking civil damages any longer. The discussion point is how long they'll be in "Federal pound-me-in-the-ass Prison".

    This is the dumbest idea from a spammers viewpoint I've ever read. However, I'm not under the impression many of these guys are intelligent. The only reason they've been able to defeat filters and other mechanisms is either stupid admins or half-hearted implementations.

    I personally hope they do it! I'd love to see a few spend some time in our lovely Federal Corrections Facilities.

    --

    Computer Science is Applied Philosophy
    1. Re:The inplications go WAY beyond that by I.A.N.A.T. · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      This is the dumbest idea from a spammers viewpoint I've ever read.

      Ok, like...what part of "this is speculation" did you not understand? Or did you not even read the article? Or did you read it, but find yourself unable to process the many syllables of the word "speculation?"
      I admit, it's refreshing for a "journalist" to cop to speculating, but that's still a good indication that he needed a pyacheck and couldn't think of anything WORTHWHILE to write about...and of course, if it's useless and speculatory, slashdot is all over it.

      --
      Just because the U.S. is the greatest country in the world doesn't mean we're superior...oh wait, yes it does.
    2. Re:The inplications go WAY beyond that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spammers are about in the same boat AFAIAC as lawyers in this country nowadays (and you remember what Shakespeare said about lawyers)!

    3. Re:The inplications go WAY beyond that by rutledjw · · Score: 1
      Oh boy, where to start?
      This is the dumbest idea from a spammers viewpoint I've ever read.

      Ok, like...what part of "this is speculation" did you not understand? Or did you not even read the article? Or did you read it, but find yourself unable to process the many syllables of the word "speculation?"

      OK, dear idiot, take a deep breath, try thinking. In other words, if I were a spammer reading this article (from a spammers viewpoint) I would think it's a dumb idea(This is the dumbest idea ... I've ever read). It's really not that difficult to understand. And you're off counting syllables...

      Before putting all that effort into a condescending post, try a little thought and insight.

      and of course, if it's useless and speculatory, slashdot is all over it.

      And you're reading and posting on the topic.

      --

      Computer Science is Applied Philosophy
    4. Re:The inplications go WAY beyond that by Dr+Tall · · Score: 1

      SPAMMERS right now are crowing that "we're not doing anything illegal". What if it were made illegal? The United States government just started an anti-telemarketer registry to protect privacy. Could the same be applied to spammers?

  39. It's true by paranode · · Score: 5, Informative

    I run honeypots and work in security and I can tell you firsthand that this is definitely an accurate conclusion to draw. People exploit Windows boxes all the time and the only things I ever see them do with them are opening up spam relays or hooking it up as a bot to a warez IRC channel. There's absolutely no skill involved, it's just script kiddies with automated tools taking advantage of lazy Windozers who forget to set SQL passwords or ever patch their system with the latest updates. It's pathetic, and it really makes me think that spam can never be stopped no matter how much legislation gets passed.

    1. Re:It's true by bani · · Score: 1

      it's not legislation that needs to be passed, it's enforcement of existing laws on the books that needs to be performed.

      nearly every spam being sent these days violates some federal or state law. relay rape = criminal trespass, theft of service. sending from trojaned computers = breaking+entering, criminal trespass, theft of service, unjust enrichment. not to mention most spam just by content are fraud (penis enlargement, make money fast, etc) or criminal (advance fee fraud schemes).

      if law enforcement would just enforce the laws already on the books, and start putting spammers in the slammer (and seizing their property, as done in drug cases), i'm sure we'll see a nice reduction in spam.

  40. Virus free by wowbagger · · Score: 2, Insightful

    " they will almost certainly end up mandating use of some (commercial, windows only) antivirus package."

    No, that is exactly why I phrased it as I did - "require the user to keep his machine virus free."

    If a machine is sending virus laden emails, then it is not virus free. Otherwise, innocent until proven guilty.

    As for the attachements - I am sorry, but your right to swing your arm ends where my nose begins, your right to play your stereo ends where it enters my house. Society can quite legitimately ask its members to curtail dangerous behaviors. I can think of no circumstance in which sending an executable program as-is is needed or even wise. Not only will zipping the program reduce the size of the program (and thus the load on the mail server) it will add CRC protection to the program so that an error in transmission has a higher chance of being detected and corrected.

    "my company already does such checks on internal mail, and it drives me mad, but it's their network so they can do as they please."
    Guess what - Your ISP's networks is THEIR network, so by your own arguement THEY can do as THEY please.

  41. Advertising (spamming) companies are responsible by ToadMan8 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    UPS can't ship Cocaine. It's illegal to do so. Regardless weather the dealer told them it was powdered sugar or not, UPS is either responsible for being part of the transaction or they can plea bargain out and tattle on the dealer himself.

    The advertising companies first of all can't use virii to send spam. Secondarily, and in direct response to your objection, they can't claim they thought their illegal practice is legal because of what they heard from the company they are advertising for. Ignorance is no excuse (to do something illegal).

    --
    I haven't posted in so long, my sig is out of date.
  42. Then... by gr8_phk · · Score: 2, Funny

    Then they'll try to sue the anti-virus companies for blocking their advertising.

  43. What happens: by pr0ntab · · Score: 1

    1) Joe shmuck signs up for one of those guaranteed-business turn-key seminars and gets shafted for $100 to learn how to take their catalogues and hawk their stuff on some fly-by-night webhost.

    2) Joe Shmuch tries to do something to increase sales of his shitty product, so he pays some lead-generating site which gets him into contact with a bulk-email provider.

    3) Joe Shmucky pays the spammer to hawk his product, spammer complies, Joe Shmucky is still not getting enough hits.

    4) Joe Shmucky has paid everyone to sell something no one wants, doesn't have enough cash to continue, and spammer, seminar guy, and crap distributor all walk away with his cash.

    But you already knew all this.

    --
    Fuck Beta. Fuck Dice
  44. Graffitti=Urban Art = hackers=spammers by adzoox · · Score: 0, Flamebait
    ok, i'll bite:

    Spammers DO HACK my mailbox= hackers

    Graffitti IS urban art - something I'm sure you aren't as talented with a spray can as they are!!!

    Who modded you? You apparently didn't read fr comprehension. I ststed that I wasn't really comparing the two; more contrasting the two. Back up your statement that a spammer is NOT a hacker. I gave a specific example.

    --
    Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
    1. Re:Graffitti=Urban Art = hackers=spammers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ya know, I really don't appreciate it when people self mod or get friends to unjustly mod posts.

  45. Re:well, by I.A.N.A.T. · · Score: 0

    it's still more profitable to attack a country and take thier oil

    It's obvious you don't contribute anything to the world. Your country probably doesn't either, unless you're a traitor the U.S. and are posting from within its borders. If so, why don't you move to france so you can get buggered by other smelly people that think like you? Also, it's "their" not "thier"

    --
    Just because the U.S. is the greatest country in the world doesn't mean we're superior...oh wait, yes it does.
  46. Stop spam by going after the source by zornorph · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Everytime I see an article about spam, it always seems to be trying to stop spam after the fact (closing relays, using spamassassin, etc). Why not go after the source instead? If you do get spam, don't bother trying to hunt through email headers and all that, look for contact numbers/emails in the spam that are listed for the 'product' in question. Call them and complain. Sometimes, the company selling the product may not know their promotion is being carried out via spamming, and won't pay that company to spam again. If enough companies realize they are pissing off their potential customers, they just might stop paying the spammers. Once there is no money left in spamming, it will naturally stop on its own.

    Of course, this doesn't address those who don't care or already know they are getting their message out via spam, but at least it would make a good start to reducing my inbox total.

    --
    http://bike.stu.ph/rides - free GPS routes available for Garmin, Magellan, GPX and Google Earth
  47. Like people saying Rap isn't music by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I agree with you completely. This is the same kind of person that would say Rap isn't music. It takes a lot of talent to be a good rap artist. It is very hard to connect words and rythym together in the way that it is done in Rap songs (properly).

    Same thing. It takes a spammer talent, the same kind of talent and thinking as a hacker, to spoof my mail filters. I have over 100 now and STILL get 50-120 a day!

    I think you just need a P.E.N.I.s EN.large.ment! :)

  48. In Other News.... by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 2, Funny
    Spammers may be unethical and act illegally! More at 11!

    --
    Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
  49. Diversity among hackers = less effectiveness by lpret · · Score: 1
    With diverse operating systems, there will be precisely the same number of dickheads out there writing malware, but that each would be more focussed for an OS, and perhaps more difficult to detect.

    You're missing the point. By requiring the virus writers to be much more specific, you make the effectiveness of that virus much less. The appeal of writing a virus for Windows is watching the whole world fear that virus because ~80% of the world's computers run Windows. If you had smaller market shares, say at max 20%, then a virus (which usually only exploits unpatched computers) would only affect 25% of that OS, so a total of 5% would be vulnerable. We're not even talking about OSes here -- if you don't run Outlook you're safe from most of these new viruses. Try Opera's M2. Or Mozilla's e-mail client.

    I will concede that this will then make it much harder for antivirus companies to keep track of, and support, a multitude of OSes, but it would only spur growth within that market, as companies would specialize to a specific OS.

    --
    This is my digital signature. 10011011001
  50. Talk about spam! by lpret · · Score: 1
    How many messages does SPAM-L get each day? Roughly 100 to 125 messages per day.

    Straight off their FAQ. I almost signed up for it, but that's more spam than I get now in 3 boxes combined!

    --
    This is my digital signature. 10011011001
    1. Re:Talk about spam! by dmuth · · Score: 1

      There is also a digest mode of SPAM-L available.

      BTW, I'm the guy who maintains the SPAM-L FAQ, hi. :-)

  51. My boss was surprised on anti-spam efforts by cecil36 · · Score: 1

    My boss checked his e-mail sent over the weekend and discovered that over 2/3 of it was caught by the ISP's spam filter. A very large percentage of what wasn't captured was also spam, so there was time wasted in disposing of that. I believe that spam will eventually be outlawed, but the service providers need to do more on their end to prevent the spread of spam by restricting access to SMTP servers and ports. The idea of scanning attachments is good, but you also run the risk of deleting something that is legitimate. The same is true with junking spam (remember those with Yahoo addresses having their donotcall.gov e-mails trashed by the Yahoo mail server?). It may sound like a hard task, but give it some time, and the technology and algorithms needed for maximum effect and efficiency will be available.

  52. formula for success by grasshoppah · · Score: 1

    step 1: write uber virus
    step 2: get caught upon takeing credit
    step 3: go to maximum ultra security prison for 16 consecutive life sentences
    step 4: become someone's bitch
    step 5: ???
    step 6: Profit!!

    couldn't leave this alone:)

  53. But what about... by msaulters · · Score: 1

    the synergy between virus writers and anti-virus companies?

    Seriously, WHY do you suppose MS hasn't made their product more secure from viruses? Probably getting kickbacks from McAfee.

    I've always thought there just had to be some connection. After all, consider the sheer numbers of new viruses, and the fact that 99.999% of 'hackers' (and by that I mean people bent on causing online trouble) are script-kiddies, that doesn't leave a lot of people out there talented enough to write the code. Also, it seems the quickest way to detect and repair a virus is to have written the code in the first place and already know how it works.

    One wonders if the major antivirus companies have some sort of information-exchange to share projected rollout dates "Yeah, we're planning a biggie to increase our sales next quarter, here's a floppy with the signature and payload. We'll trade ya for the fix on your latest NIMDA variant."

    Hey, can an antivirus company really say they're doing EVERYTHING to protect their customers unless they're sharing info? Hmmmm.

    --
    These people looked deep into my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined.
  54. Re:well, by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 1

    It's obvious you don't contribute anything to the world. Your country probably doesn't either, unless you're a traitor the U.S. and are posting from within its borders. If so, why don't you move to france so you can get buggered by other smelly people that think like you?

    He can move to any other country in the world, really. They feel the same everywhere now. France was just the one with the balls to speak up.

    I'm going to a conference there in two months. If you give me the money, I'll buy a bottle of French wine and pour it down the gutter for you.

  55. Legislative action by gone.fishing · · Score: 1

    Perhaps laws making the creation and distribution of viruses aren't enough. Perhaps we need laws that also outlaw the exploitation for profit of viruses. While we are at it, we can outlaw exploitation of other people's internet connections.

    Call it "virtual trespass" if you will. Maybe it could be used againt those applications that hijack your browser as well!

  56. Re:Really?: not just sending spam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative
    Sending spam? That isn't all.

    The brutalrape spammer did more. His virus infected computers to install a tiny web server and a few pages. Victims had graphic rape images on their machines. The virus "phoned home" when the victim went online. The spammer took the victim's IP address and added it to his nameserver as (one of the) IP address(es) for his spamvertized hostname.

    Those getting the spam would complain about the graphic images and spam site - on a victim's computer. The tiny web site would have a few pages including one which would be a (possibly JavaScript encrypted) redirector to the actual signup page (usually a signup page rather than the actual site - one would have to pay before finding the location of that).

  57. Re:well, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    France was just the one with the balls...

    Hahahhah!! that's funny. individual frenchies might have backbone, but the nation itself is more yellow than tweety bird. The only reason France "spoke up" was to protect their cheap oil supply....and yet the U.S. is the one accused of going to war for oil. How much concern did the Frenchies show for Iraqi citizens when they were giving money to saddam for oil, knowing full damn well that none of that money was going to the citizens? Oh, wait, I'm not supposed to talk about that because it's not anti-U.S. nor is it pro-left wing.

  58. Slug Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, in essence, you are saying that whatever product or service being advertised is the cause of spam and the subjective advertisement's beneficiary should be stomped to death... Hey, I hope you're right!

    Advertisments to take-down a website you don't agree with...

    Have you been feeling you aren't satisfying your partner? Ask CMDRTACO.NET's ROB MALDA! He's a man, he's married, he will answer your love questions for $4.99 per minute as well as ad-less access to the mothership of assho*^H^H^H^H^H^HEditors providing keen advice and counsel on SLASHDOT.ORG!

    Goodbye cmdrtaco.net...Goodbye slashdot.org :-)

    It was nice seeing you the other day...
    BARELY NUDE FAT MANLY TEENS!! ALL LIVE!! ALL PARTIALY CLOTHED!! ALL UNDER THEIR DESKS!! ALL AT COWBOYNEAL.ORG!! SAY YOU READ THIS ON SLASHDOT.ORG AND RECEIVE 13.37% DISCOUNT FROM $5.99 SUBSCRIPTION TO THE BARELY NUDE GALLERY!


    Goodbye cowboyneal.org :-)

    I think this will work...verry well >:-)

  59. Technical writeup of the SoBig worm by schm00 · · Score: 1

    There's a really nice technical writeup of the mechanics and evolution of the SoBig worm here. Fairly scary stuff.

    1. Re:Technical writeup of the SoBig worm by Mryll · · Score: 1

      I wonder if you could catch the originators by setting up a bogus PayPal account, getting a box infected, and tracing activity on the account...

  60. Seems odd... by A55M0NKEY · · Score: 1

    If the sobig virus sends specific spam emails then you should be able to examine the packets output by an infected machine to discover the content of those mail messages. Once you find out the content, then you know who is sending the mails since any useful spam would have to include some way to get in contact with the spammer. ( Maybe not negative ads tho such as 'Tide Sucks' being sent out by All detergent without any reference to itself. ) If I were a spammer looking to send spam via a virus I wrote I would just have the virus act as an open relay. Then I would scan the net at large for open relays to use just as any other spammer would. Writing such a virus would benefit the whole 'Spammer community' to the detriment of everyone else, but the virus writer could remain anonymous since many spammer are likely to find and use infected machines without knowing why the machines are running an open relay.

    --

    Eat at Joe's.

  61. This is another application of a DDOS network. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All that's required to create a spamming network is to create a DDOS trojan that will send out spam instead of hits to random sites. Then you could have the control servers accept huge mailing lists and spam forms. The list would be broken down into small "jobs" and sent to the trojaned machines along with the spam message. The infected machines then dutifully send it to every address on the list and wait for further instructions. If the network is diverse enough, it could be difficult to block effectively if the same recipients aren't mailed from the same IP ranges.

    Also, consider the bandwidth that will be available. If an average cable modem uploads at about 100kbps (the max is supposed to 128 but this is a simplification), then just 15 infected machines will form an equivalent of a T1 line. About 500 will upload as much data as a T3 line. Of course, this just assumes that all 500 are on castrated residential lines, which isn't always the case in real life. Any such trojan with robust propagation and upgrading capabilities will be able to grow to far larger propotions, and if the propagation mechanism can be updated quickly and reliably, a steady flow of new hosts is assured. With enough funds, it's not impossible to imagine something like this happening soon (especially with zdnet editors giving ideas to the masses).

    As far as tracing is concerned, it's not very easy to prove that the owner of a product willfully contracted someone to spam the net with it. The attempts to trace the person controlling the network will likely end up with some proxy server in china, korea, or whathaveyou.

    Not-So-Anonymous Coward.

  62. The solution is to remove the weak link. by digital+photo · · Score: 1

    Okay, you have a firewall and a virus scanner. But all of this is for naught if you yourself push the button or your software pushes the button. In either case, your system gets hosed and you have hours of work ahead of you to fix things.

    Most virii are currently Windows based. The gut feeling would be to avoid that platform and choose something more resistant like Linux or MacOSX.

    If you can't step away from Windows, then step away from the applications on Windows which can make your life suck: Outlook/Outlook Express, MS Office, Auto-downloaders, Auto-executors, etc.

    If you have the good sense to avoid opening those files, but your software doesn't, then you are still screwed. you need to configure your OS to not be so impulsive. Tell it to save off those attachments and place them somewhere safe for scanning. Don't let it automatically process images/etc.

    Finally, if you can't avoid Windows or the applications which can lead to computer ruin, then at least make good backups and such...

    I use WinXPpro, Mac OSX, GNU/Linux 2.4.20(Debian) and have yet to have a virii incursion. Though that is probably due to the use of Pine, Mail, and OpenOffice. :)

    Thumbs up to OpenSource/FSF and the community.

  63. Re:Really?: not just sending spam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Oh HELL.

    He's back. The brutalrape spammer using trojaned machines for his webservers.



    With one added attaction. It used to be that one could get at him by having his nameservers taken down. Guess what? While it takes a day to get new nameservers listed in the root servers, suppose one found some DSL/Cable machines on which one had installed the trojan which were left on 24/7? Why, use the trojaned machines for the nameservers as well!



    Check out the nameservers listed in the root servers for the domain nomorebullshitsite.com. Check out how quickly the IP address for nomorebullshitsite.com itself changes. Check what it resolves to. Damn.