The Biggest and Baddest Backyard Roller Coaster

BoomZilla writes "Following on the heels of previously reported backyard roller coasters (here and here), I'd like to add Jeremy Reid's wondrous beast to the list. This behemoth certainly takes the award for the largest, fastest (and most likely the most expensive) labor of coaster love. Located in Newcastle, Oklahoma, it has an initial drop of 20ft, pulls max positive G's of 3.5 and max negative G's of -0.2. Overall it's a stunning 444 feet in length. Total cost is estimated at $5.5k. Jeremy is, clearly, a man with too much time and money on his hands!"

Comments

Real Estate in Oklahoma

[stonebeat.org]

Real Estate in Oklahoma is cheap. Try building this in a backyard in California. It is gonna cost 2 million + 5.5 K :)
The point I trying to make you need lot of free space to this kinda stuff :)

Re:Real Estate in Oklahoma

[Anonymous Coward]

Depends where in California. In some areas it'll be about $10 + $5.5k.

Re:Real Estate in Oklahoma

[dbrower]

Real estate in California is cheap enough for this too, if you build it near Redding, or Eureka, or Nevada City. And if you live near one of those places, you have about as much time as the guy in Oklahoma.

just being technical,

-dB

Re:Real Estate in Oklahoma

[Anonymous Coward]

man. you're one informative mothafucka. thanks for your input.

wow

[Anonymous Coward]

Since this was a Slashdot article, I figured it must have been about a guy who built a 9-monitor roller coaster simulator running across 3 PC's.

Re:wow

[Anti_Climax]

Imagine a Beowulf cluster of those...

Dangerous

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope he has a lot more time on his hands - to maintain it. Maintaining a rollercoaster is not easy.

--a Cedar Point employee

Re:Dangerous

[Gherald]

I doubt the use is heavy enough for maintainance to be a big issue.

Re:Dangerous

[Christopher Thomas]

I doubt the use is heavy enough for maintainance to be a big issue.

Weather's a big issue. Even pressure-treated lumber wears in an annoyingly short time. The rails will also corrode.

It's a great achievement, but if its time before a major overhaul is needed is over 10 years, I'll be impressed - and this took years to build.

As long as he puts in the time, kudos to him.

Re:Dangerous

[MuParadigm]

I hope he has a lot of money on his hands -- for insurance.

Re:Dangerous

[Anonymous Coward]

Should have looked at his resume. He seems to be unemployed since 2001...

Re:Dangerous

[Anonymous Coward]

Insightful?

What does professional rollercoaster maintenance have to do with the fact that an intelligent young man successfully designed, built, and tested his own rollercoaster?

How about, "Kids, stay out of model rocketry because NASA procedures take lots of time!" Better yet, stay away from all engineering....?

Re:Dangerous

[Jacer]

Last summer when I was at Cedar Point I was stranded on the top hill of a roller coaster for about two hours before being escorted down the stairs to the side of the first hill. The engine towing us up the first hill was siezed. I was really pissed off because I drove 1,200 miles for the roller coasters and spent a good chunk of my second of three days doing nothing, I mean, for the two hours, I could have almost made it completely throught the line of the Millenium Force!

Re:Dangerous

[naelurec]

Thats what you get for riding the Wildcat .. :)

Re:Dangerous

[yaar]

no you may not have the duck; you may have the chicken.

NIfty toy

[curtlewis]

Pretty slick, but you just KNOW some kid is gonna climb his fence, ride the coaster, fuck it up, hurt himself and sue the guy.

So... $5.5k + $1million lawyers fees + $5 million per kid that parents let run loose unattended.

Re:NIfty toy

[NanoGator]

"Pretty slick, but you just KNOW some kid is gonna climb his fence, ride the coaster, fuck it up, hurt himself and sue the guy."

Wasn't it Han Solo who said "better you than me"? Man, it's like that movie applies to everything!

Re:NIfty toy

[toughluck]

This to me just says how badly things need to change. Any parent that sues another because

1. they let their kids run around with no supervision.

2. does not teach their kids what is safe and what is not.

3. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY!!! does not and will not take responsibility for their Childs actions and for their own lack of parenting

should have their lawsuit thrown out of court and then sued by the government and by the person they sued for contributing to the problem of our kids pushing off the blame to anyone else they can.

And yes for the record I am a father of 3.

Re:NIfty toy

[Insanity]

If you're breaking into my house and fall down the stairs, I'm not liable. Likewise if you're breaking into my backyard and using my rollercoaster.

Re:NIfty toy

[ashkar]

Actually, in at least several states in the U.S. you are liable even if the injured party is "uninvited".

Sometimes my pride in being American tastes like shit.

Re:NIfty toy

[curtlewis]

Not so.

There is precedent... A burglar broken into someone's house, injured themselves some how on a kitchen knife, sued the owner of the house and won.

Kids climing the fence to swim and drowning, many cases of this have been to court and won.

Just because it is private property doesn't make you immune from legal responsibility. In my opinion it SHOULD in most cases, but that's not the law in most states.

Re:NIfty toy

[Toasty981]

By Pennsylvania law, you're required to have a fence around your pool. Otherwise, if someone decides to trespass and use your pool, you're responsible if they drown.

Re:NIfty toy

[guacamolefoo]

Two words:

Attractive nuisance. Sorry, user 633962, the courts disagree with your view. Here's a brief definition of the doctrine:

http://insurance.cch.com/rupps/attractive-nuisan ce -doctrine.htm

Clearly, a parent who fails to supervise would be likely be brought in as a codefendant, but that's not to say that a person or entity that maintains an attractive nuisance is without responsibility for the harms that can befall children (who do not know better).

Here's the problem:
The tort system is used to try to compensate for damages. A very young child just doesn't know better, and the law has developed in a way that basically says "society should hold someone other than the child responsible for making the world safe for children because the child (1) doesn't know and better and (2) leaving the child exposed to danger is harmful. Better to look to a way to prevent these injuries from happening. Someone maintaining an attractive nuisance presumably has the benefits of it, so it is only fair that they should bear the costs of it as well.

Your issue is not necessarily with attractive nuisance, but with a separate tortfeasor, namely the negligent parent. While I do not disagree with you, you must remember that the harmed party is the child and limiting the child (who, remember, does not know better because he/she is very young) from recovering. Saying "blame te parents" doesn't screw the parents, it screws the kid more often than not, since it limits the ability of the totally without blame child from recovering for his injuries from either (1) the negligent parent (who may, and usually is, insolvent) or (2) the maintainer of an inherently dangerous object.

Any parent that sues another because [...]
should have their lawsuit thrown out of court

It is not the parent's lawsuit -- it is the child's lawsuit. And yes, as I mentioned above, it is likely that the negligent parent would be brought into the suit as a codefendant by the maintainer of the attractive nuisance. Unfortunately, the parent is all-too-often insolvent. That leaves us with an extremely young child with poor judgment in an uncompensable situation just because someone likes to maintain a rollercoaster in his yard (something with low social utility). Sorry, but the courts do not agree with you.

GF.

Re:NIfty toy

[guacamolefoo]

By Pennsylvania law, you're required to have a fence around your pool. Otherwise, if someone decides to trespass and use your pool, you're responsible if they drown.

Facts and circumstances. Facts and circumstances. If a seven year old trespasses and drowns in your pool and you have no fence or a fence with a gate that doesn't latch, blah, blah, blah, you may be screwed. If the neighbor's college kids come over a trespass in your pool and drown, you'll be fine.

BTW, it is not a "Pennsylvania law" that I am aware of regarding pools and fences. Many, if not most, municipalities have regulations in their building codes and zoning codes addressing this issue, but not all. That doesn't make it a "Pennsylvania law"; it makes it a local ordinance.

GF.

Re:NIfty toy

[EvanED]

Keep the car locked up. That would significantly decrease the chance someone would hurt themselves on it.

Re:NIfty toy

[Anonymous Coward]

Or if someone gets hurt while trying to steal it...

Re:NIfty toy

[Sabalon]

An 8 foot pricacy fence should stop a child too young to know better. If they are old enough to bypass the fence, they are probably old enough to know better.

Perhaps I'll find some poisinous berries on a bush on government land, let my daughter eat one then sue for them being an attractive nuisance.

Re:NIfty toy

[toughluck]

I see your point of that the courts do not always agree with me, however that does not mean that the the courts are always right.

An extremely young child does often have poor judgment, this is a given. IMHO this does not excuse the parent from not watching the child or put the blame on someone that has taken some steps, like putting up a fence as stated in the parent post.

I will admit that there have been cased where both the neighbor and parents should be at total fault for a child getting themselves into trouble. The point I was trying to make, and badly at that, is that there are to many cases where parent who where not doing their job watching their kids. Who where not doing there job teaching their kids right from wrong sueing everyone else because they would not look in the mirror.

Sometimes shit happens, although not as much as most would want us to believe.

Re:NIfty toy

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's completely disregard the fact that he said "This to me just says how badly things need to change." That was the first sentence. It doesn't matter that "the courts" do not agree with him, because he says that the fact that they disagree is what is the problem. And he's totally right. When we were building our deck, one day a kid who probably couldn't even talk, climbs up the stairs, and starts wandering around on the deck. There are no rails on the deck. I had to run out there and take the kid off it before it fell off. I think anyone who sues because they are shitty parents should have to give like half their shit to the person they are sueing, and should surgically be prevented from contributing to the gene pool anymore.

Re:NIfty toy

[TheIzzy]

Any child big and old enough to climb a fence and know what a roller coaster is is old enough in my opinion to be held accountable for his actions. Like the grandparent post said, not holding the children responsible for their actions (and their parents for preparing them to take those actions) is a major flaw in modern society, independant of the law's opinion.

Re:NIfty toy

[guacamolefoo]

Let's say that the kid falls and is seriously injured (one who "probably [can't] even talk), making him, say not quite 2. The child falls off the deck and breaks his spine and is paralyzed from the waist down for life.

Who should bear responsibility for compensating the child for lost wages and future health care needs?

(1) The government
(2) The parent tha wasn't watching the child
(3) The person who saved some money by building and maintaining a deck that does not meet reasonable safety standards (and any deck with no railings fails to meet resonable guidelines)
(4) Nobody, the child should suck it up

Well, first, the gub'ment has enough to do. It should only be there in the last resort. Second, the parent that wasn't watching is probably partly responsible as well. You (#3) benefitted from violating the safety standards for decks that are either imposed via ordinance or statute or which violate due care standards and which are part of the tort regulatory system. The child is not at fault, and should not bear the cost of the negligence of others.

I think anyone who sues because they are shitty parents...

The parents have no claim. Any claim is the child's claim. The negligent parents are not suing you.

GF.

Re:NIfty toy

[roystgnr]

That leaves us with an extremely young child with poor judgment in an uncompensable situation just because someone likes to maintain a rollercoaster in his yard

To make this sentence correct, the word "just" needs to be deleted and the words "and because someone else likes to let their kids run around other peoples' yards unsupervised" added.

It is not the parent's lawsuit -- it is the child's lawsuit.

If it were really the child's lawsuit, then:

The damages would only be taken from the maintainer of the "attractive nuisance" after the parents had demonstrated an inability to pay.

They would be placed in a trust for the child that his guardians could only touch to cover medical bills.

The child would be placed in a foster family away from those parents, who, even if there were no backyard roller coasters, may be unable to successfully raise children in a world with operating railroads, roads full of fast cars, alleys full of junkies and muggers, and all sorts of other dangers that can be lethal to young children running around public (not to mention private) property unsupervised.

Re:NIfty toy

[guacamolefoo]

Perhaps I'll find some poisinous berries on a bush on government land, let my daughter eat one then sue for them being an attractive nuisance.

I presume that this is a hypothetical, and that you ouldn't purposefully poison your own child. I definitely hope that this is true because you can't sure the government under most circumstances. Go google "sovereign immunity" and try again.

GF.

Re:NIfty toy

[guacamolefoo]

If it were really the child's lawsuit, then:

The damages would only be taken from the maintainer of the "attractive nuisance" after the parents had demonstrated an inability to pay.

There would be a weighing of relative responsibility for the harm to the child. This is the responsibility of the jury.

They would be placed in a trust for the child that his guardians could only touch to cover medical bills.

Minor settlements must be approved by the courts to ensure that the funds benefit the child and payments from the award to the child are not misused by the parent. In my state, anyway.

The child would be placed in a foster family away from those parents, who, even if there were no backyard roller coasters, may be unable to successfully raise children in a world with operating railroads, roads full of fast cars, alleys full of junkies and muggers, and all sorts of other dangers that can be lethal to young children running around public (not to mention private) property unsupervised.

This is a separate legal issue. Whether a parent will be separated from the child and put into foster care has nothing to do with determinations of liability and damages. What you are suggesting is a legal non sequitur. I certainly think that injuries of a great magnitude would certainly interest the children and youth services nannies, however. Probably the first thing that would happen is that an incident report from the hospital would trigger an investigation, but, again, this inquiry has nothing to do with a tort claim and it would be handled separately.

GF.

Re:NIfty toy

[Toasty981]

Fair enough. My parents always told me it was a PA law when we were building the stupid thing. Seemed reasonable to me :)

Re:NIfty toy

[Plix]

That's true in New York including if the person is trespassing (I realize that you were implying thus, but I figured I'd just state it explicitly). You can also be prosecuted for what's called an "attractive nuisance" (which a backyard rollercoaster would probably qualify for).

Re:NIfty toy

[EvanED]

>>(and any deck with no railings fails to meet resonable guidelines)

What? Where'd this deck thing come from? The original poster asked about jumping a fence... whether there is one or not aroung the coaster, I don't know. But if there's a decent fence, and someone jumps it and hurts themself on the inside, the owner should NOT be held responsible. Period. Similarily, if, as I suggested earlier, the owner locks up the cart, and someone still manages to hurt themself, the owner should not be held responsible.

The poster you replied to is not saying that parents are the sole people that can are responsible for all accidents, rather that in many cases people are held responsible for things that they absolutely shouldn't be.

(For instance, the post in another branch commenting on the /sucessful/ lawsuit by a robber who brok in somewhere, and while he was breading and entering hurt himself on a knife and sued the owner. It's despicible that this case was even tried let alone reached the decision that it did.)

Re:NIfty toy

[guacamolefoo]

That leaves us with an extremely young child with poor judgment in an uncompensable situation just because someone likes to maintain a rollercoaster in his yard

This required a separate answer.

World with "good parents", "bad parents", "no roller coaster", "roller coaster", "injury from roller coaster", "no injury from roller coaster"

My matrix develops the following scenarios:

1. If "good parents" and "roller coaster"; no injury from roller coaster.
2. If "bad parents" and "roller coaster"; injury from roller coaster.
3. If "good paretns" and "no roller coaster"; no injury from roller coaster.
4. If "bad parents" and "no roller coaster"; no injury from roller coaster.

Ergo, the roller coaster leads to injuries that would not exist in its absence. It has a social cost. Fairness generally dictates that those creating or causing the costs to society must bear some portion of those costs. In this case, the coaster owner should bear some portion of the cost of the injuries that he is creating. If there were no roller coasters, there would be no roller coaster injuries. It is only fair that the roller coaster owner should pay when his property results in injuries.

You are hung up on this "trespassing" notion. Young kids can't trespass because they lack the requisite intent. Therefore, you folks are seeking a substitute by which the intent can be derived through the child by the parent's actions or inactions. Sorry, but the legal status of the child and the remedies available to the child do not depend upon the parent's actions or inactions. The child (rightly so) has a separate and independent legal status under the law.

Collectively, society has determined that it is a better policy goal to seek to protect young children from dangerous conditions that common sense and experience have told us will attract children. It is simply a pragmatic cost/benefit regulatory function performed through the tort system in the courts.

If this is grossly unfair to you, then tough shit. It's not going to go away just because you don't like it. I didn't like it either when I first started to digest it, but basically, it works. You hear about abuses from time to time, but that's why it's called "news".

GF.

Re:NIfty toy

[EvanED]

>>You are hung up on this "trespassing" notion. Young kids can't trespass because they lack the requisite intent. Therefore, you folks are seeking a substitute by which the intent can be derived through the child by the parent's actions or inactions. Sorry, but the legal status of the child and the remedies available to the child do not depend upon the parent's actions or inactions. The child (rightly so) has a separate and independent legal status under the law.

What if there's a fence? I suspect any kid who is big enough and strong enough to jump a decent fence would also know that they aren't supposed to.

Re:NIfty toy

[Anonymous Coward]

The quote was 'Better her than me', referring to Leia as Luka and Han were talking about what to do while Ben went out

Re:NIfty toy

[guacamolefoo]

Where'd this deck thing come from?

Read the parent post from A.C.

rather that in many cases people are held responsible for things that they absolutely shouldn't be.

We're all responsible. It's a christian thing.

(For instance, the post in another branch commenting on the /sucessful/ lawsuit by a robber who brok in somewhere, and while he was breading and entering hurt himself on a knife and sued the owner. It's despicible that this case was even tried let alone reached the decision that it did.)

I love anecdotal evidence stating how "out of control" the tort system is. The fact is that I deal with the system every day, and the tragedies I see are (1) injuries where nobody can pay for damages to injured parties and (2) injuries where juries do not award damages even where they find for the plaintiffs on liability and causation.

The fact is that cases that make the rounds at the watercooler or through the news do so precisely because they are noteworthy and out of the ordinary. When you read the news item about the "outrageous" jury verdict of the week, please consider that (1) you were not in the courtroom and (2) you are hearing about it because it is unusual. The "burglar that slips, falls, and sues" type case is a "man bites dog" story and such a case would receive disproportionate publicity.

GF.

Re:NIfty toy

[guacamolefoo]

What if there's a fence? I suspect any kid who is big enough and strong enough to jump a decent fence would also know that they aren't supposed to.

Aren't we geeks? Don't we know that physical size and strength have little to do with judgment and intelligence? Besides, you would be absolutely amazed at what a 7 year old can do if you turn your back on the little fucker. There's a movie about it called "Gone in 60 Seconds".

Yes, fencing and efforts to exclude are considered, but not in the manner you suggest. Age is the first thing to examine. In intermediate ages (above 7 and below something like 14) you need to look at the facts and circumstances. A mentally retarded child or maybe one who suffered from lead poisoning as a child might not be held to the same standard of care as a healthy child of the same age. It basically becomes a jury question.

GF.

Re:NIfty toy

[daeviltwin]

That is a very good explanation. Are you a law student?

Re:NIfty toy

[NanoGator]

"The quote was 'Better her than me', referring to Leia as Luka and Han were talking about what to do while Ben went out"

Ya know how when ya move out of your parents house and you throw away your old toys? Having a girlfriend has that affect on Star Wars trivia.

Re:NIfty toy

[DunbarTheInept]

This is in oklahoma. I doubt their laws have gotten as stupid in this regard as most of the rest of the country.

Re:NIfty toy

[IANAAC]

There is precedent... A burglar broken into someone's house, injured themselves some how on a kitchen knife, sued the owner of the house and won.

This smacks of urban legend. Got a link or anything backing it up? I can believe the kids climbing the fence precendent, though.

Re:NIfty toy

[EvanED]

>>Read the parent post from A.C.

Hmmm, somehow I missed that...

I agree in that position the owner should be held partially responsible, though to what degree I'm not sure and can't say without knowing of the full situation. (Since it was under construction)

I understand the problems with the anecdotal evidence thing, but there are WAY too many cases of misplaced blame by judges and juries.

Re:NIfty toy

[thogard]

In the states its not law (most of them), its the insurance compaines that will force you to get a fence around the pool.

Re:NIfty toy

[Anonymous Coward]

When I was 7 I was climing fences to go swiming in the new development (all the new houses came with pools), I knew I could get in trouble for it and I also knew I could play dumb and get away with that.

Re:NIfty toy

[EvanED]

>>Besides, you would be absolutely amazed at what a 7 year old can do

If they're 7, they should know not to enter a fenced in area where they are not allowed. I know 5 year olds who have known stuff like that for some time...

Re:NIfty toy

[Anonymous Coward]

4) the kid should suck it up.
The kid has quite a bit of self preservation built in. Sometimes things like over protective parents break break what is natural.

Remember that 10 yr old kids that break their arms tend to be be much healthier in the long run.

Re:NIfty toy

[EvanED]

If you had drowned in one of said pools do you think that the owners should have been held responsible?

Whether people do it or not is not the issue... People go out and murder and rob and vandalize knowing it's illegal. There are even plenty of laws that most people could easily and honestly state that they didn't know they were breaking. Are they still responsible for it? You bet...

Re:NIfty toy

[lewp]

Right, but what's your excuse?

Re:NIfty toy

[Anonymous Coward]

Comparing the actions of the Nazis who exterminated millions of people with somebody a bit too pedantic with Star Trek knowledge is really, really petty. You, sir, are a petty shmuck.

I hope some of your loved ones perish in the next terrorist attack. I'll make sure to lighten it by comparing the Islamic terrorists to Star Trek fans.

Scumbag.

Re:NIfty toy

[Anonymous Coward]

I hate lawyers. Whenever I see our town's most hated lawyer's car in a parking lot, my keys accidently scrape a gouge in across the side of his car. Ouch!

Re:NIfty toy

[Anonymous Coward]

It's Star Wars, dumbass.

Re:NIfty toy

[TheLOTR]

One Question GF, And to be clear, this isn't an attack, you just seem to be very knowledgeable re the subject.

But if the current legal system is so inclined to worry about how the "child" may not understand right from wrong, how come I keep hearing about cases where the "16 year old murderer" etc. are being tried "as adults".

Where does the differentiation come in regarding children who walk on other people's property and drown in their pools vs children who kill and commit other violent acts?

Is someone only responsible for being an adult as long as they are actively breaking the law?

Re:NIfty toy

[bucky0]

I don't have a link handy, but I remember reading about a case a couple years ago that went something like this: A burgler was walking along the roof of someone's house to try to get into an upstairs window. Unbeknownst(sp?) to him, the owner was doing some sort of construction to his roof (installing a skylight or something) and he fell through. The burgler sued and won because the judge said the jury couldn't consider the fact that he was trespassing in the case.

Re:NIfty toy

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the reason people see the tort system as "out of control" is because of obviously ridiculous cases that are being treated seriously, which is happening with greater frequency now than before. The most common type I can think of is simply people suing for exorbitant amounts of damages. It didn't explode until people started winning the damn things, and now, quite frankly it is out of control.

We have cases where special interest groups are using lawsuit as the path of least resistance to things they could never get through legislation. Judicial fiat is unpredictable, but it seems you can always count on a dumb jury.

Re:NIfty toy

[rossifer]

The child falls off the deck and breaks his spine and is paralyzed from the waist down for life.

1) What deck are you referring to? In this discussion, we've got roller coasters, pools, and fences, but your post is the first to mention a deck.

The child is not at fault, and should not bear the cost of the negligence of others.

2) Life is not fair. No matter what society says, I am ultimately responsible for my own safety, as is every other person on this planet with agency (i.e. is concious with decision making capacity; infants don't qualify).

Parents will almost always assume responsibility for the safety of their young children because they love them and want their genes to continue on through more generations. There's nothing stopping them from doing that (I will do that when I have children of my own, probably about three years from now, I'm guessing) but let's not pretend that even younger children don't bear real responsibility for their sometimes stupid actions. To repeat: this parental generosity doesn't remove ultimate responsibility from the individual.

I'll bet my kids are going to end up in the emergency room more than once and I hope that they gain wisdom from their injuries, but I'm not going to sue the construction company building a house nearby if my kid sneaks into the partly finished house and 1) steps on a nail in a loose board 2) in suprise and pain at the nail penetrating his foot, falls from an unfinished upper floor to the plywood covered floor below, breaking his arm and then proceeds to 3) cut his hand on roughed in ductwork trying to get back out... (it was a very exciting day for my mom, who was convinced that I was never going to make it to adulthood). But there was no thought of suing the construction company. I was foolish and paid the price for my stupidity.

If a different child pays a higher price for his stupidity than I did, then I'm sorry for his troubles, but this is yet another way in which our modern legal system does not attempt to determine responsibility sanely, but instead seeks to assign blame to anyone but the injured party so that they can be "compensated" for their loss.

No wonder that the first two ways people expect to get rich in this country are 1) win a big lawsuit or 2) win the lottery. Lawyers are writing the laws which benefit the lawyers (find the deepest pockets in reach and plunder... not easy enough to plunder? "There ought to be a law." "It's for the sake of the children..." "If just one child is saved.") Complete and utter bullshit.

Sorry about that. Nothing personal, your post just happened to be the straw that broke the camel's back, as it were...

Regards,
Ross

Re:NIfty toy

[plupster]

Man, it's like that movie applies to everything! Except how to pick up women.

Re:NIfty toy

[DonaldBeckman817]

put a fence up. Keep the car locked and un movable with a set of locks. This would limit the chances of injury and provide a 'reasonable effort' defense.

Re:NIfty toy

[Lumpy]

That leaves us with an extremely young child with poor judgment in an uncompensable situation just because someone likes to maintain a rollercoaster in his yard

Yes but this description of "extremely young child" explains the thinking abilities of a large number of 13-24 year olds. in this country.

you know the ones.... they think that drunk is neat/cool and vandalisim or violating laws are cooler.

should they be included in this as "young children"?

Re:NIfty toy

[Anonymous Coward]

We have cases where special interest groups are using lawsuit as the path of least resistance to things they could never get through legislation. Judicial fiat is unpredictable, but it seems you can always count on a dumb jury.

Yep. They've been doing this at least since Brown V. Board of Education. That case sure sucked. I guess we should get rid of the courts and let everything up to the legislature.

GF.

Re:NIfty toy

[guacamolefoo]

Criminal law differs from tort law. The explanation about attractive nuisance that I made is only a slice of tort law. Generally for purposes of tort law, you can think of three categories of kids:

1. To young to know better or to have intent to commit a tort

2. a "middle" child age where facts and circumstances dictate whether a child is responsible for an act

3. a "responsible" age (below the age of majority, but still held to the same standard.

Criminal rules regarding when a child may be charged as an adult and held to the same legal standard (to get this straight, the legal standard for a crime is the same, adult or child, but the punishments differ, partly because it is the thought that young people do not have the judgment or maturity of adults and do stupid things as a result of youth and inexperience and that we should cut them a break before incarcerating them forever for a dumb mistake. [big breath]).

Essentially the issue in criminal law is youth and inexperience v. seriousness of crime and society's interest in preventing it from happening again by pnishing te perpetrator and making an example for other potential perpetrators to let them know that serious crime will be taken seriously.

As for the mechanics of making that determination, well, it depends on your jurisdiction. I do not practice criminal law (insert joke here, wiseguys), so I can't even tell you the tests in my jurisdiction.

GF.

Re:NIfty toy

[guacamolefoo]

The child falls off the deck and breaks his spine and is paralyzed from the waist down for life.

1) What deck are you referring to? In this discussion, we've got roller coasters, pools, and fences, but your post is the first to mention a deck.

The child is not at fault, and should not bear the cost of the negligence of others.

2) Life is not fair. No matter what society says, I am ultimately responsible for my own safety, as is every other person on this planet with agency (i.e. is concious with decision making capacity; infants don't qualify).

Parents will almost always assume responsibility for the safety of their young children because they love them and want their genes to continue on through more generations. There's nothing stopping them from doing that (I will do that when I have children of my own, probably about three years from now, I'm guessing) but let's not pretend that even younger children don't bear real responsibility for their sometimes stupid actions. To repeat: this parental generosity doesn't remove ultimate responsibility from the individual.

I'll bet my kids are going to end up in the emergency room more than once and I hope that they gain wisdom from their injuries, but I'm not going to sue the construction company building a house nearby if my kid sneaks into the partly finished house and 1) steps on a nail in a loose board 2) in suprise and pain at the nail penetrating his foot, falls from an unfinished upper floor to the plywood covered floor below, breaking his arm and then proceeds to 3) cut his hand on roughed in ductwork trying to get back out... (it was a very exciting day for my mom, who was convinced that I was never going to make it to adulthood). But there was no thought of suing the construction company. I was foolish and paid the price for my stupidity.

1. Read the parent post. There is a clear reference to a "kid that can't quite talk and a deck with no railing yet installed". Re-read it to get where I was coming from with my answer.

2. Two year olds are not the rational beings that you suggest. In fact, you did not even have to mention that you did not have kids -- I could figure it out from your post.

3. The attractive nuisance doctrine applies to very young children. When they get older they should "know better" and they are not allowed to recover under the doctrine.

4. I think your conception of the tort system has been distorted by big business and insurance company propaganda.

Maybe someday when youget older, you will see this differently. You'd be amazed at how little a sense of self-preservation young kids have. They are in permanent self-destruct mode.

GF.

Re:NIfty toy

[PopeAlien]

"The quote was 'Better her than me', referring to Leia as Luka and Han were talking about what to do while Ben went out"

My name is luka
I live on the second floor
of my aunt and uncles house
yes I think you've seen me before

If you hear something late at night
some kind of trouble, or a blaster fight
just don't ask me what it was
just don't ask me what it was

Geez.. I wish there was HTML code for some lil' musical notes.

Re:NIfty toy

[smilingirl]

I'm a girl and I think Star Wars trivia is awesome. I own a few Star Wars toys myself and at one time was so obsessed with Star Wars that I read about 30 of the novels and watched the movies so much I could say the lines with it. And believed (or rather, fantasized) I was a Jedi named Aurora...

Hehe.

Re:NIfty toy

[adamfranco]

Actually its local municipality building code in PA. My parents live in Frankfort Township, Cumberland County and don't have to have a fence (its rural and the nearest neigbor is 1/2 mile away), while the adjoining townships mandate fences around pools in their building codes.

Re:NIfty toy

[Penguin2212]

I would agree to that. However, accidents do happen and kids can slip away from time to time. Which is why the coaster should be locked up and everything to prevent such things from happening.

Re:NIfty toy

[whatch durrin]

You may be knowledgeable about civil cases such as this, but I maintain that if I was on the jury where a kid (of any age) crossed a 3-4 foot high fence and injured himself with any object he was not given express permission to use, I wouldn't give the parents (or the kid, as you say) a cent.

When I was a kid, we would routinely jump fences and get into things we shouldn't have. If I would have been injured it would have been my own fault. When I was much younger, my parents knew better than to allow me to stray too far from home, so getting into such trouble wasn't an issue.

You can quote case law all you want, but the fact is most people sue in instances like this to try and get rich, or cover their own financial losses for being stupid (or allowing their kids to be stupid). Lawyers support such lawsuits only because they can line their own pockets.

Yes, we should have reasonable laws on the books to protect children from unnecessary exposure to unsafe conditions. But it should, in most cases, be a criminal matter, not a civil matter, which is overly subjective, and does nothing to prevent similar future incidents from occurring.

Really care about a child's safety? Move to pass laws that protect them. This allows everyone to know beforehand what's legal and what's not, rather than making up the rules on the fly and subjecting innocent citizens to penalties for not protecting stupid people from themselves.

Re:NIfty toy

[mummers]

You could equally try to argue that a driver should be absolved of all fault if he hits an adult pedestrian strolling along the side of the Freeway. Just because someone is 'old enough to know better' it does not mean they do, or that the law should not protect them. Hey, if everyone over 18 was sensible there'd be no need for this.
Over here in the UK, it is a well known doctrine in Health & Safety legislation that "A fool must be protected from himself."

Re:NIfty toy

[jmo_jon]

You can quote case law all you want, but the fact is most people sue in instances like this to try and get rich, or cover their own financial losses for being stupid (or allowing their kids to be stupid). Lawyers support such lawsuits only because they can line their own pockets.

Couldn't a reason for all these lawsuits also be the high costs of medical care. West Europe is compareable with USA in wealth and in most countries there is the healthcare very cheap, hence no need for a lawsuit. Maybe it's just me but I've never heard of a lawsuit like that in Europe...

Re:NIfty toy

[whatch durrin]

You said: Couldn't a reason for all these lawsuits also be the high costs of medical care.

I said: ...or cover their own financial losses for being stupid (or allowing their kids to be stupid).

So, yes, it may be due to healthcare costs. But if the incident was your fault, you should bear the costs, not me.

Re:NIfty toy

[NanoGator]

Hhe. Where were you when I was moving out?

Re:NIfty toy

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, it was just a burglar who stepped on a skylight and fell through to the kitchen below, breaking bones and impaling himself on various kitchen utensils. The skylight had been installed since the burglar had cased the neighborhood a few months earlier, and of course it was dark, and of course the guy had his mind on other things besides "why is that part of the roof so shiny?"

The judge in that case needs to be dragged out into an alley and beaten with a surgical 2x4.

Re:NIfty toy

[Anonymous Coward]

Having lived in Oklahoma, I can definitely say their laws are that stupid.

My former landlord was sued for the following:

Tenant had a dog in a yard with a fence.

Kid climed the fence, got bitten by the dog.

LANDLORD got sued and lost.

Makes a bunch of sense, eh?

Re:NIfty toy

[Sabalon]

I would never poison my own child.

Local governments get sued all the time. Find enough lawyers and they'll go after whoever the county/state hired to maintain the grounds, the commisioner that signed the order for the bush, etc...

Re:NIfty toy

[guacamolefoo]

You can also be prosecuted for what's called an "attractive nuisance"

You're confusing criminal and civil law. Attractive nuisance is a tort doctrine, which is civil law. Prosecutions occur only in the context of criminal law.

Your statement is roughly the equivalent of saying that someone has been electrocuted by fire. The result may be that someone is dead, but the method you describe is impossible.

GF.

Re:NIfty toy

[Anonymous Coward]

You left out a lot of facts:

1. Did the dog have a propensity for vicious behavior?

2. Did the landlord know this?

3. How old was the kid?

4. How high was the fence?

All of these factors matter, but you conveniently left them out. This is the problem with (1) word of mouth reporting of case results and (2) newspaper reporting and editorializing about case results. Uneducated, non-attorneys who do not understand what is significant from a legal perspective or why legal rules exist (because they mostly work well) cry about results that offend their notion of fair play and justice. The fact is that almost all the time, juries and judges get it right, and "bad" verdicts or decisions make the news because (guess what?) they ARE news -- they are unusual.

When a bridge collapses, it makes the news. Why? Because it's unusual. Does this mean that people call for the radical redesign and overhaul of the way we build bridges? No...you deal with the specific problem. In the legal system, that is called an appeal. Appellate courts are, for the most part, error correcting courts. The infamous "McDonald's coffee" case verdict was eviscerated on appeal, for instance, and McDonald's (and big insurance) got fodder for years to convince politicians that injured people deserve to collect nothing from the negligence of big business that considers death a cost of doing business.

Re:NIfty toy

[StormKrow]

Not in Oklahoma. If you get killed because of your own stupidity, it's your own damn fault. (the way it should be).

Re:NIfty toy

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, but my landlady didn't even know they had the dog.

I can see where you might think she was lying, but having known her, I can say with some certainty she didn't. She was a very kind and honest person.

Re:NIfty toy

[lorcha]

Funny that you mention that. Many years ago, when I was president of my fraternity house, a few people brought a trampoline to the house and set it up. Now, as a former gymnast, I thought it would be fun to have, but also as a former gymnast, I recognized the risk such an apparatus posed to kids in the neighborhood (never mind the drunkards I lived with).

A quick call to our insurance carrier settled what our responsibility would be to avoid a potentially huge liability:

1. Erect an 8-foot-high fence around the trampoline with a locking gate.
2. Keep the gate locked at all times, and
3. Place large signs on all fence walls which read, "DANGER! TRAMPOLINE!"

Needless to say, the trampoline was removed. But we did get a few laughs at dinner about that phone call.

Fragile?

[buck_wild]

Is it just me, or does that wood look old as dirt?

Re:Fragile?

[Anonymous Coward]

old wood means nothing, as long as its not rotten, wood can easily stand up to the elements for many many years. trees are designed that way, to survive against rain and tornadoes and whatnot. altho i doubt a high quality wood was used in the production, i also doubt that its 'fragile' i mean its a roller coaster for cmndrtaco's sake. fragile is not a term to be used lightly.

consolevision roxors

Re:Fragile?

[jpnews]

The site doesn't specify, but he may be using "recycled" wood- perhaps even wood from an old, demolished roller coaster. You know once apon a time, they were all made from wood!

Re:Fragile?

[Anonymous Coward]

trees are designed that way

Ah, grasshopper, but trees are alive and can regenerate at least some of their damage, much unlike the irreparable damage in your head.

Re:Fragile?

[3waygeek]

Actually, the wood is specified as pressure-treated southern yellow pine, which turns that color after a year or two of exposure to the elements.

Re:Fragile?

[buck_wild]

I still don't think I would trust it. With it sitting out in the elements, and being that weathered, I doubt you one could tell if there was dry-rot without experiencing it first-hand. And that would be a Bad Thing.

Re:Fragile?

[whereiswaldo]

I dunno, but I'm still trying to get over the fact that an AOL customer built this thing.

Re:Fragile?

[kosibar]

So the moral of the story is: Always build your roller coaster with live trees - otherwise expect it to deteriorate.

All in fun. But, really, it would be interesting to have some sort of a flexible track that could mount to live trees, so that the track could move slightly as the trees grow and sway in the breeze. The precise mathematics of a roller coaster would be hard to work with considering the dynamic nature of a growing tree, but it must be possible even if it is brutally difficult.

Re:Fragile?

[strange_attract0r]

It says on the website that he uses pressure-treated yellow pine. If you read his resume it sounds like he knows what he's talking about - of course he does, he's an engineer!

Re:Fragile?

[CGP314]

wood can easily stand up to the elements for many many years. trees are designed that way, to survive against rain and tornadoes and whatnot

But a tree is alive and can heal. A wooden roller coaster is not, and cannot.

Re:Fragile?

[Fear the Clam]

Me too!

Re:Fragile?

[Anonymous Coward]

Alas, but the plagiarist gets the mod.

In case of Slashdotting

[dicepackage]

Technical Info: Style: Out and Back Height: 17 feet First Drop: 20 feet Top Speed: 20 mph Track Length: 444 feet Max Positive G's: 3.5 Max Negative G's: -0.2 Material: Pressure Treated Southern Yellow Pine Number of Drops: 4 Lift hill angle: 26.6 degrees 1st Drop: 54 degrees 2nd Drop: 43 degrees Curve banking: 50 degrees Duration: About 1 minute Cart: Single Car, Wood and Steel Construction Capacity: Single Rider Chain Lift: 1HP Motor, 3/4" Pitch Roller Chain/Sprockets Overall: 9,500 lbs (4.75 Tons) Lumber 7,000 Screws/Nails 2,900 board feet of lumber Investment: $5.5k Started Construction: September 1997

Re:In case of Slashdotting

[Anonymous Coward]

Already slashdotted now where the links to what we really want. The movies.

Re:In case of Slashdotting

[dicepackage]

According to what I heard Roller Coaster Tycoon is like having a real live theme park in your back yard.

You know what would be appropriate now?

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone adapting the Simpson's monorail song to this backyard rollercoaster.

That one never gets old. (^^ )

loops.

[stagl]

what? no loops? ;) (i'm hoping some crazy guy will take this challenge so i can see another article entitled "bigger badder roller coster")

Re:loops.

[Tyler Eaves]

It's already been done (And covered on /.)

See...

Re:loops.

[stagl]

ah! fantastic! although, looks frightful!!! excellent work on the framework though. this looks as if it took some major engineering smarts.

An American pastime?

[Anonymous Coward]

So, do slightly crazy folks in other countries build homemade roller coasters as well, or have the slightly crazy Americans got a monopoly on this?

Re:An American pastime?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think every arab prince has a roller coaster un his backyard.

Re:An American pastime?

[guacamolefoo]

I think every arab prince has a roller coaster un his backyard.

Move to Oklahoma! Live like an arab prince!

Re:An American pastime?

[twitter]

So, do slightly crazy folks in other countries build homemade roller coasters as well, or have the slightly crazy Americans got a monopoly on this?

Ask Zeplin about crazy rides.

Re:An American pastime?

[Anonymous Coward]

We germans can afford to let slightly crazy americans build such crap for us...

Soon to be Darwin Award winner...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm looking at it and thinking that I will be reading about this guy when he gets a Darwin award...

Re:Great Site

[MrFreak]

He's hosting large mpegs, and its still early. Who wants to wager how many more comments get posted before someone starts whining about the borked Windows site?

Biggest Coaster Ever...

[pHatidic]

Anyone read the title and think that AOL switched from CD-ROMs to Laserdiscs? :)

Re:Biggest Coaster Ever...

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently you did... but no one else.

Re:Biggest Coaster Ever...

[EMDischarge]

Erm, no.

Nerd.

Time?

[MoThugz]

Jeremy is, clearly, a man with too much time and money on his hands!

He should spend some hours on HTML when he's done with the roller-coaster.

The roller-coaster is something really cool... can't say the same about the site though!

Re:Time?

[gooru]

He should spend some hours on HTML when he's done with the roller-coaster.

So, are you saying that he should or should not count it as a skill on his resume?

Skills
...
Other: 3D Studio Max, Fortran, MathCad, Director, Flash, HTML, VRML

What I would like to see is something in VRML where I could ride the coaster online. Oh, wait. I don't have anything that supports VRML...

Re:Time?

[MoThugz]

I'm saying what I've said... spend some hours on it. I didn't imply anything about his abilities, that is entirely up to him to pimp it as a skill or a disability.

Re:Time?

[Migrant Programmer]

He does have a VRML simulation, but it's not online. See the "Simulation" link on the website, or directly:

http://students.ou.edu/F/Steven.R.Farley-1/kinetic 999/sim.htm

Re:Time?

[Anonymous Coward]

And you think yours is any better ? Man it plain sucks, a slashdot wannabe with an EVEN crappier layout. Another Slashdot script kiddie then...

Re:Time?

[Lumpy]

Jeremy is, clearly, a man with too much time and money on his hands!

I am sure that after Jeremy finishes college... he will get a better job than you and by 35 own a hellova(tm) more stuff and have much bigger piles of money than you BECAUSE of this.

This is the kind of person that already at 22 has more accomplishments not only personal but in the workplace that 90% of the population. a 22 year old with a project manager title and corperate engineering experience already on his resume.

sorry, but this lad is a better man that most of us here (Yes including me.)

Re:Time?

[mesach]

at my old job, they gave out Project Manager titles, and Vice presidentships with boxes of Tide. Titles mean nothing these days, back that title up with experience then we'll talk.

The way I see it, they give out the title for accountability, the more people accountable, the easier the managements job is to point fingers at who to blame when THEIR butts are in the sling.

Re:Time?

[LrdHlmt]

one of the most important questions to ask your self about someone you want to hire is .. "is this guy better than me?" ...

I would hire this guy on the spot !!

Advertisement..

[ewhenn]

bag of popcorn: 3$
300 yards of lumber: 5.5K
labor to assemble: 6.7K

watching the neighbors annoying kid puke his guts out: priceless

Patented

[dmeranda]

It's a good thing this guy didn't break any patents on roller coasters. Although to be fair, most of those have expired, and patents on actual physical machines are palatable.

Oh, does this remind anybody else of the Cartmanland episode of South Park where Cartman owns his own theme park?

Re:Patented

[RPI Geek]

IANAL, but since he's not selling it, I don't think anyone would care that he "broke" a patent.

Re:Patented

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't worry, he didn't mean it. He's just a whore included as many links as possible in his post to get mod points.

Too much money?

[Anonymous Coward]

If the poster read his resume, he'd see:

"Oklahoma EPSCoR Stipend Recipient - Personal roller coaster project - 1999"

So, he doesn't necessarily have too much of his own money on his hands...

Re:Great Site

[CuriousGeorge113]

He actually has those MPEGS on members.aol.com

So unless he has a bandwidth limit, they shoudl hold up nicely.

Cartman Land

[Barlo_Mung_42]

Soon he will have to let in two people to pay for the security guard. Then two more to pay for the upkeep. Then more for candy sales. Then he'll get all pissed off because he doesn't have it all to himself anymore and sell it back.
End of story.

Re:Cartman Land

[StormKrow]

Yeah, but you can't come. :-P

uhh....

[Piranhaa]

Safe?? *cough*

Too much time and money on his hands?

[vudufixit]

I'm really tired of hearing normative statements like that. If someone has earned that money and/or time to pursue a hobby, no matter how unconventional, it is their absolute right to do so. Before we humans started generating agricultural surpluses above what we could hunt and gather, one person's idle pursuits could impact the ability of a whole community to feed itself. We don't have that situation now, and shouldn't feel the need to criticize anyone's idleness, if they have earned the right to it.

Re:Too much time and money on his hands?

[bangzilla]

Ever heard of irony......?

Re:Too much time and money on his hands?

[Txiasaeia]

...Before we humans started generating agricultural surpluses above what we could hunt and gather, one person's idle pursuits could impact the ability of a whole community to feed itself. We don't have that situation now...

I take it by "community" you mean "the neighbourhood in which you live," because it appears as if we are *not* adequately feeding our global community. So, in other words, your statement is complete bullshit, even if I *do* agree with the fact that one's hobby shouldn't be criticised.

Re:Too much time and money on his hands?

[Anonymous Coward]

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/06/28/203824 7&mode=thread&tid=133&tid=186

Re:Too much time and money on his hands?

[2sleep2type]

I've always thought of this as been said in a respectful geek fashion. I realy enjoy the homebrew posts seeing what other people out there get up to. It almost encourages me to go and do something big rather than just a bit of gardening/potter round shops normal effort.

Re:Too much time and money on his hands?

[jafac]

"Before we humans started generating agricultural surpluses above what we could hunt and gather, one person's idle pursuits could impact the ability of a whole community to feed itself. "

Then why can't the human race feed itself today?

Re:Too much time and money on his hands?

[vudufixit]

It's a question of distribution, not adequate production.

Re:Too much time and money on his hands?

[jafac]

Then maybe we should "get on the stick" with that distribution. . .

ok go ahead

[citroidSD]

and post jokes about slashdot taking webserver for rollercoaster ride here...

Re:ok go ahead

[dnoyeb]

Following on the heels of previously reported backyard roller coasters (here and here)

I guess they get a free bonus slashdotting.

Re:ok go ahead

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you see any ?
Nope, whore !

Attractive Nuisance

[Fubar411]

He'd be liable, just by having something this fun in his backyard, he's asking for people to come and get hurt.

Re:Attractive nuisance

[bluGill]

Perhaps, but I hope this guy has some way of keeping unwanteds out anyway. I can just see some local teens getting drunk and putting a few cuts into critical supports and him not noticing before a ride one day...

Oklahoma pass times

[nhavar]

Ah to be young and bored in Oklahoma again... this reminds me just how little there is to do there. You either work yourself to death, drink the boredom away, or find a hobby like this guy (which I assume involves both).

Re:Oklahoma pass times

[FarnstromS]

How funny.. OKC is great.. You must live in LA or NYC, right ?

Re:Oklahoma pass times

[StormKrow]

hehe, it hadn't changed in the 20 years I've been living elsewhere. The town I grew up in, there's still the one screen theatre with the 1950's style 16mm screen, (sometimes wide screen movies hang off the sides of the screen and onto the curtains), the entire downtown area (which was once a thriving commerce centre), is nothing but a handful of antique shops and beanie-babies stores, (and I think a beauty shop/chainsaw repair)...it really sucks in oklahoma, but I think one of the things that draws people back, is that it's not an over-developed and over-regulated area, and if someone had the right idea they could have the next new industry on their hands, and because there's an over-abundance of unemployed labor, poof, you get a workforce over night.

Re:Oklahoma pass times

[nhavar]

Nice try but wrong. Currently St. Louis, MO. I lived in Oklahoma up until 5 years ago - so 25 years of living there all over Yukon (graduated from there), Mustang, Bethany, Moore, and OKC.

Re:Oklahoma pass times

[nhavar]

Yeah when people say Oklahoma is great it's usually not because what you find there but what you don't find. If you want small town living with a few of the modern trappings like a super wal-mart then there are plenty of places to go in OK.

If you want entertainment it's best to live in/near OKC, Tulsa, maybe Norman but the entertainment is still pretty slim comparatively.

The real technical feat here...

[FearUncertaintyDoubt]

Don't get me wrong, the coaster is impressive, but the fact that he yet hasn't been slashdotted into 404 land, well, that's the most amazing accomplishment of all.

Great job!

[Anonymous Coward]

Since nobody else has said it,
"Great job!"

Of course, all of the early posts either talk about how much time it took, how boring Oklahoma is, how it can be dangerous, etc. People like Jeremy are actually DOING things instead of reading about them and being critical.

Well done!

Re:Great job!

[Anne_Nonymous]

Ditto that. This is a lot more impressive than some guy installing a Linux motherboard in a (choose non-traditional computer enclosure here).

Re:Great job!

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly how do you know what everyone else is doing you hypocritical, pretentious ass?

Pot-kettle-black

[WasterDave]

A man with too much time on his hands builds a rollercoater? This is from people who spend all their spare time building kernels for a community developed operating system, pissing around with config files, fighting off RPM dependencies then telling the world how easy it all is?

Do you not think there's a little, y'know, irony in the whole thing? Maybe "Rolldot. News for people that make rollercoasters. Stuff that matters." runs the occasional story about people making operating systems in their back bedroom.

Dave

Re:Pot-kettle-black

[Anonymous Coward]

Flamebait?

I forgot, this is Slashdot. TALKING about doing things (what he could have done better, or any Science Fiction) is somehow better than actually doing them (science nonfiction?).

Plus, the engineer has a valid engineering degree from a reputable school, instead of a pocketful of certificates and a grudge against academia--another knock against him on Slashdot.

Re:Pot-kettle-black

[Anonymous Coward]

I wouldn't have moderated the original post as flamebait.

This one, however, I would.

C'mon, it's just a little moderation. Other moderators moderated it differently. No one is hurt, and you got to see a range of opinions on the post (two flamebaits, two insightfuls, and a funny). It hardly supports your sweeping generalizations about Slashdot's population... you just ended up looking silly.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Nobody's riding though.

[ndvaughan]

Not one of the pics (or movies, I believe) has anyone actually IN the car (if you can call that little wooden box a "car") as the coaster is operating. One pic has a view of the top of the first hill, but he could have just climbed up to take it.

I have a feeling the first day he tested it out, it either :
A) Caused serious injury, or
B) Didn't work (couldn't make it up hill or around track)

Just my suspicion.

Dallas

Re:Nobody's riding though.

[Anonymous Coward]

so what have you dont that is even 1/50th of what he did then mister "piss on what others do"...

I'm betting you haven't done jack in your live that can even come close to this ONE thing this kid did.

Re:Nobody's riding though.

[ndvaughan]

Don't get me wrong. I think it's truly amazing what he did (and, no, I haven't done anything equal to this). I read his resume, and he is a gifted young engineer with a lot of experience, and I can tell he has passion and skill for it, which is all that matters. He WILL make it big.

I'm not "pissing" on it-- judging by the pictures, I just don't know if it's rideable (which is what the point of a roller coaster is-isn't it?). I could be wrong--I probably am considering how much he really knows about roller coasters, but my brain is too scientific to believe something before I see it.

Dallas

Re:Nobody's riding though.

[Unregistered]

If he's riding, He wouldn't be able to take pictures. And Depending on how he stops the cart it might be moving too fast if he lets it go unloaded. (It weighs 100 lbs instead of 300)

Re:Nobody's riding though.

[bluGill]

Well, nothing is said about him testing it... I can make some guesses though. My first test would be an unloaded car, which should make it around. Then I would figgure the person capacity of the car (one or two people it appears) and put 400 lbs per person (average person is less than 200 lbs, so double it for a margin of error) in the car, again the car should make it around. Solve all problems the above tests reveal. Then I would start looking for things like dolls that are similear to humans in shape to put in and make sure the whole thing works. Measure acceleration on these and check what the maxamum allowed on a person is.

That is the right way. In the old days (I have articals dating back to the 1910s that could be considered a form of coaster) you just built it, tested it unloaded, and then got the dumbest kid in the group to take the first ride. Read the true story of the Jato rocked on a car crashed into a mine darwin award winner... (look it up, I'm too lazy too, but you will soon see that they had a kid who wanted the first ride and had to convince him to allow a test run. The real story resembles the urban legend, but isn't as much fun)

Re:Great Site and Great Sig

[strange_attract0r]

How do you access the google cache of such things?The bandwidth limit has kicked in ...

Bandwith In Oklahoma.

[twitter]

Realestate might be cheap, but try getting a decent net connection. Check out the video he set up and you get a "this site has exceeded it's daily bandwith" message. So even when you've got $5,500 making a ride for yourself, it's hard to share with your friends and the world. I suppose that there's a trade off to everything, unless the phone and cable companies suck everywhere so that you can't use the wires that run into your house. Oh wait, they do.

Re:Bandwith In Oklahoma.

[Xerithane]

Don't listen to this cock-knocker. Oklahoma has decent bandwidth. Just because he doesn't know how to get a decent providor with enough bandwidth for his site doesn't mean Oklahoma has poor bandwidth.

They're right next to Texas which has some of the biggest trunks in the US.

Re:Bandwith In Oklahoma.

[StormKrow]

You *have* to live in a fairly populated area to get decent bandwidth. Don't call him a cockknocker because you live in suburbia, and he might happen to live where the tumbleweeds roam, ya lil' poo stabber. When I moved back here, I had to wait 3 years to get a decent net connection that was reliable and didn't delete their newsgroup messages every 8 hours. Frankly some people can't afford the luxury of living in an area where broadband is available, or the broadband companies view the area as too economically depressed to support a broadband network. So don't knock someone else's rant just because you happen to live in a decent area. FOAD Troll.

Re:Great Site and Great Sig

[Dr_Cornholio]

Wow, a one-message delay. That didn't take long!

Re:Great Site

[HardwareLust]

Who wants to wager how long it takes for some moron to make yet another lame-ass anti-MS rant in the hopes of snarfling up some badly needed karma?

Oops, too late.

Speaking as someone who's helped build one...

[The *Amazing* Larry]

All I can say is personal rollercoasters are a must-have for all true geeks . Check out www.speedcult.com For those of you who know about it, this will be on the esplanade at The Man this year (we were 2 streets off center camp last year) ((www.burningman.com)). If you're in the Detroit area and want to ride it, we can probably work something out. Oh, Free Spin is by FAR the best.

Resume

[mrpuffypants]

Check his resume and you'll see that he has some experience with Roller Coasters: Not only is he a mechanical engineer, but also once woked for Arrow Dynamics, which is one of the foremost Roller Coaster companies in the world.

Re:Resume

[Anonymous Coward]

A BS in engineering does not make you an engineer.

Also on his impressive list of accomplishments : a 3.2 GPA at the prestigious OSU.

No weather protection

[DunbarTheInept]

It looks like the coaster is made of bare wood, without any sort of weather seal on it of any kind. It seems to me that unless he paints it or stains it, rotting is going to make it unsafe in a few years.

Re:No weather protection

[mrpuffypants]

rotting is going to make it unsafe in a few years.

What you mean is that rotting will make it thrilling in a few years.

Re:No weather protection

[NeMon'ess]

How many years are you talking about here? 10 years? 20? The wood was bigger than just 2x4s. It looked way overbuilt to me.

How the Times Have Changed

[Farley Mullet]

Did anyone else click this link to an old coaster article in the story text, and see how michael had added a cute little "sorry buddy" note about slashdotting the guy's server, and even posted links to mirrors? Now the /. effect is positively a marketing tool; we're told that we can "beat the rush" and see the sites before the server is reduced to a smoking husk if we buy a subscription.

Re:Engineering???

[thogard]

Have you ever been on a wood coster? Part of the unique feeling is how the wood gives way in the curves. The steel pipe ones never had the same feel.

Re:Engineering???

[Anonymous Coward]

His resume shows that he has plenty of Roller Coaster engineering experience.

If you can do better, STFU and do it. Then post it to Slashdot so we can laugh at it.

Re:Engineering???

[Anonymous Coward]

You said: I'll be interested when I see a backyard roller-coaster with some actual engineering design work put in to it.

The post immediately before yours said: Check his resume and you'll see that he has some experience with Roller Coasters: Not only is he a mechanical engineer, but also once woked for Arrow Dynamics, which is one of the foremost Roller Coaster companies in the world.

Just because the freaking thing isn't over-engineered in steel and concrete to last through Hurricane Andrew, doesn't mean it isn't properly engineered. As someone else said, wood rollercoasters have a distinct look/feel/sound to them that steel cannot hope to match.

If you're so smart, build one, or shut up. This guy has built a cool thing. What do you have to show for your life?

You lost out then...

[Xandar01]

The Six Flags park I worked at (long ago) would give riders who were stuck walk-on ride access to either the ride you were stuck on or another ride if that one was down for the rest of the day. You know if you had played your cards right, you probably could have walked right onto a few rides after being stuck so long.

Also, thought I should mention that I find it kind of weird that they left you in the ride for so long. In my several years working major coasters, I don't recall leaving anyone stranded on a ride for more than 15 minutes or so.

Oh one last thing (heh heh), I remember occasionally stopping trains at the top of the 115' lift of a certain ride I worked because "I saw someone do something." I tell you it was 1) exhilarating to walk to the top of that 115' lift and 2) amusing as hell to see people, who are safely strapped in, start freaking out because they are afraid of heights. What were they doing on a "tall" coaster anyway?

Re:You lost out then...

[theNetImp]

What were they doing on a "tall" coaster anyway?

Getting over their fear of heights????

too much time?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Jeremy is, clearly, a man with too much time and money on his hands!" I get so sick of hearing this kind of comment. This man obivous loves something and build a project - he is doing his dream. RIGHT, ON, JEREMY! What are we all suppose to be good little consumers and just work and play only at the usual everyday mundane megacorp-provided pleasures? Do you people have ANY idea of it means to be a free person?

Another homebrew coaster

[m33p]

This isn't quite a roller coaster, but it is one goddamn impressive ride: http://www.speedcult.com/speedcult/coaster_a.html

There is a reason that disclaimer is on the ticket...

http://stories.about.ticketstubs.org/story.stub/41

Re:Another homebrew coaster

[Anonymous Coward]

Jesus! That speedcult.com is the ugliest site I've ever seen. Did ALL the text need to be on fire? Not very readable against the black and purple skull background...

It's been done.

[Anonymous Coward]

The Termite, the small homebrew wooden coaster that started this whole thing back in the 80s was actually built in California. The owner has since removed it and replaced it with... a homebrew monorail.

software used in the design there of

[combinatorics]

Judging from his resume, he probably used some software to model the design of this ride. I wonder if he paid the license fees for this software or just roped it from his last employer. Perhaps the stuff under the "skills" section is open source, eg. "PRO-Mechanica Static Stress Analysis"...doesn't sound free. It just goes to show: we need an open source solution to theme park ride design. I'll get started on that.

just a stack of wood really

[nietsch]

If you don't have the same love for rollercoasters as this guy, you'll find yourself looking at a bunch of wood which a trolley can ride. And it won't even loop you. Very nice maybe if your garden is a bit too big, but otherwise: Boring!

You aren't funny.

[SaraSmith]

It didn't even say biggest coaster, it said roller coaster. Those are outside though I guess... Have fun with your AOL coasters.

It's impressive that he made it and all

[Illserve]

But I find it hard to associate the words "biggest", "baddest" and "behemoth" to a 20 foot tall rollercoaster.

Maybe "miniature" and "for toddlers" are better ways to describe it...

Gee, I feel sick just reading about it.

[thorgil]

Gee, I feel sick just reading about it.

pressure treated yellow pine

[nietsch]

Like the article states it is made out of pressure treated yellow pine. Even if it was made out of untreated wood, it'd still be safe in 10 years time, provided he did the engineering right(no places where water can pool on the wood). (He is an engineer, and unlike you probably knows his stuff)
If wood stays dry, it will not rot, it just stands there. Like trees really.

Re:pressure treated yellow pine

[localroger]

Even if it was made out of untreated wood, it'd still be safe in 10 years time

Pressure treated wood is generally guaranteed for 40 years even in ground-contact situations. I have a deck of pressure treated 2 x 6's which has been in ground contact for 13 years and has not deteriorated a bit.

YHBT

[Anonymous Coward]

'nuff said.

Your honor...

[El Camino SS]

"So in closing your honor, the child saw a ROLLER COASTER in the back yard of another individual, so he HAD NO CHOICE to climb the fence, cover the barb wire with a pillowcase, throw meat to the dogs, sneak out at the property at night, chloroform the owner of the house, and steal the proper keys to get the device running. It is that injury that makes the defendant liable for all the injuries and damages up to $17 million that my client has asked for."

"We the jury, being too stupid to understand personal injury, award the plaintiff's family with indentured servitude and all of his assets, including the rollercoaster and time for the defendant to make the safe function of said rollercoaster, to the plaintiff's family."

"Case closed."

death by a thousand cuts

[Anonymous Coward]

Jeremy is, clearly, a man with too much time and money on his hands!

Too many splinters in his hands, I'm sure.

YHBT YHL HAND

[Anonymous Coward]

asdf assdf asdf asdf!!!

Dangerous, Probably the best in the world

[reality-bytes]

This is possibly the best 'coaster in the entire world.

I mean, 'coasters are all about causing exhilleration though fear induced adrenalin rushes.

The think that always spoils rollercoaster rides for me is the safety. Theres little or no chance of even getting injured on mordern 'coasters so the whole thing seems less scary; whereas this guys creation is a whole different story.

If you take a look at this image you realise that if you really were riding this; you'd have just worked out that there was an even chance of you not living to regret climbing aboard!

What a rush!! ;)

no contest

[ThePlaydoh]

id rather go on the worlds scariest rollercoast than ride on one of these backyard rigs.

now THATS scary.

Re:Great Site

[Anonymous Coward]

Get off the Internet, you damn retard. You are obviously unprepared to view web pages.

The difference between the Blueflash and the other

[mesach]

It appears that the Blue Flash has actually been ridden though. I saw NOTHING on the page about the Wooden Coaster that shows it has been ridden by anyone.

Attractive nuisance

[panurge]

This really annoys me. People boast of freedom, but when I was a child we actually had far more freedom in many things than modern children. I expect the childhood mortality rate was slightly higher as a result of accidents, and definitely higher because of the lack of modern medical techniques, but I'm not sure it was really significant. The pressure on parents to insulate children from reality, on the other hand, is significant. It may be true that it is mostly bad parents that fail to teach their children to look after themselves, but I am not convinced that attempts to legislate against people coming to harm from their own stupidity will end anywhere other than in a reduced quality of life for everyone. The fact that people look at what this guy has done and instantly start thinking about how he might be sued is a very sad reflection on society.

However, before we all go and look at the river for the last time before they close off the attractive nuisance with a non-slip concrete cover, how difficult can it be to put a padlock on the main switch? And perhaps a few PIR sensors around the raised portion coupled to an alarm coupled to a PA that tells the unwanted visitor to keep off and go away?

I can understand that legislation was needed in a day when landowners were not above putting out traps for human beings that strayed onto their land. I can understand that if the local ogre puts up a gingerbread house in the backyard with the intention of attracting children to the cookpot, this must be stopped. But in my probably insufficiently humble opinion, there comes a point at which it should be the sole responsibility of parents to ensure that when children are old enough to climb, hammer, saw, cut, pull levers, drive cars etc., and if they cannot do this then the children should be taken into care. There seems to be more and more legislation trying to turn us all into passive consumers the moment we walk out of the door of our large corporate jobs, and I do not like it. People like this guy who actually do interesting things should be encouraged, not made to worry about being litigated against.

Re:The difference between the Blueflash and the ot

[bhtooefr]

I've seen on the Today show one guy riding the BF over and over.

Cluster?

[Anonymous Coward]

Imagine a Beuwolf cluster of these!

Re:Engineering???

[Anonymous Coward]

The guy had a 3.2 GPA doing a Bachelor's degree at a public state school. I'm sure this was a lot of work, but the guy is no genius.

Hmm...

[FreemanPatrickHenry]

The guy's got a changelog on his site. Surely he must use *nix!

Re:Engineering???

[splorp!]

Agreed.

The Beast and Son of Beast (looped wooden coaster with only a lap bar) are two of my favorite coasters of all time.

ME degree from OU with a 3.2 and unemployed?

[MobileDude]

Read his resume. Graduated in 2001 from OU with a 3.2 in ME and his last work experience is December 2001.

Damn, is the economy in a recession?

Re:ME degree from OU with a 3.2 and unemployed?

[StormKrow]

Yeah, the economy in OK blows dog. (which is part of the reason I moved back. I got sick of living in an area where people had too much money.) That's not to say that I'm "well off" or that I've hit hard times, but it disgusted me completely that a population's solution to solving social problems was the throw money at it. Anyway, back on track...the economy in OK. There are a lot of people that who are highly educated here that aren't working. I know of several people that have advanced degrees in engineering, economics, ag-engineering, and the like, that have had to resort to subsistance farming and other things to make ends meet. (even selling produce on the side of the road.)

Re:Engineering???

[Anonymous Coward]

You *do* have to be a genius to get 3.2 GPA in engineering at a state school and spend time at the pubs. :^)

Seriously, a 3.2 in engineering a Oklahoma is impressive. Oklahoma is very fine engineering school. Its also a place where the intro engineering classes are likely graded on a bell curve around a C. It's the ivy profs who think "B" is a failing grade.