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Microsoft's Forgotten Mistakes

seattlenerd writes "In light of all of the hype about how much cash Microsoft is sitting on, it's good to be reminded that they do fail. A lot. This piece in Seattle Weekly points out some of the many failures -- from ActiMates Barney to Microsoft at Work to pending disasters in smartphones and interactive TV (despite recent PR-worthy announcements). But like most litter, the failures are swept under the rug in the hopes people don't remember that many 'new' Microsoft ideas are recycled from its own history." Of course, like any big company, Microsoft is not a monolith.

82 of 700 comments (clear)

  1. MS Failures... by GigsVT · · Score: 3, Funny

    You forgot to mention Windows.

    --
    I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    1. Re:MS Failures... by mdvolm · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That was one heck of a (multi-billion dollar) failure; and in their favor!

      My failures have never amounted to much...

    2. Re:MS Failures... by El+Cubano · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, it was a huge blunder for MS to do all the R&D for KDE and Gnome to copy and give away free.

      Just like it was a huge bluder for UC to do tons of research on networking and implement a TCP stack for MS to take it and charge everyone for it?

    3. Re:MS Failures... by aiyo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes this IS a troll. UI design isnt about putting important stuff in order, it's about making important stuff easily accessible and putting unimportant stuff out of the way. Why put the minimze button on the left next to the menus when it will just lead to accedental minimizing. Also people dont think of it as looking at the end of the title bar, its just the top right. It takes just as much effort to click on something thats at the top left as it does to click something on the top right. Do you move your mouse to the top left and along the title bar and finally to the right to click minimize?

    4. Re:MS Failures... by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Enter Windows. Let's put it in the lower left, where NO language or culture deems a good "starting" place."

      UI Designs are not sentences to be read. Microsoft didn't make a particularly good or bad choice with the placement of the Min/Max buttons.

      It may be 'backwards' from what others have done, that doesn't mean it's particularly bad.

      Now, if you want to discuss bad things about the MS UI, then I'd point you at the scrollbars instead. MS scrollbars are missing the 'up' scroll button directly above the down scrollbutton. So if you want to scroll down just to read line by line, then go back up, you have to fly your cursor back up to the top of the screen.

      In any case, I don't see what this has to do with NG's original comment. The Open Source Commmunity has done a good deal of copying off of MS. Attempts to replace Office come to mind.

    5. Re:MS Failures... by El+Cubano · · Score: 4, Informative

      UI design isnt about putting important stuff in order, it's about making important stuff easily accessible and putting unimportant stuff out of the way.

      How about the crap that MS pulled by placing the minimize/maximize right next to the close button (whereas in previous UIs the close button had been on the left so that it would be nearly impossible to exit an app accidentally while trying to minimize)? I would hardly consider that an improvement in ordering and accessibility.

    6. Re:MS Failures... by reynaert · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm surprised nobody mentioned Microsoft OS/2.

    7. Re:MS Failures... by Bananenrepublik · · Score: 4, Funny

      So if you want to scroll down just to read line by line, then go back up, you have to fly your cursor back up to the top of the screen.

      This lead to the innovation of the mouse wheel. Why cure a problem in software if you can sell hardware?

    8. Re:MS Failures... by oogoliegoogolie · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Let's say this together now.... The buttons are all in the same corner so the user doesn't have to go hunting all over the place for them. Whether he wants to minimize, maximize/restore, or close he knows where to find them.

    9. Re:MS Failures... by VGR · · Score: 3, Informative
      People may not move their mouse to the top left and then along the title bar, but they do move their eyes to the top left and then along the title bar (assuming they natively speak a language with that orientation). They may not consciously think of it as looking at the end of the title bar, but it's still the end of the title bar, and that makes it slightly less easily accessible. After they've looked at thousands of windows, that "slightly" adds up to hours and even days of wasted time.

      The eyes of people who read top-to-bottom, left-to-right will naturally gravitate first to the top left corner of a rectangular object containing text. Check out some usability studies to see what I mean.

      --
      The Internet is full. Go away.
    10. Re:MS Failures... by JanusFury · · Score: 3, Funny

      I guess that's why OS X's close button is right next to its Minimize too?

      Right. :)

      --
      using namespace slashdot;
      troll::post();
    11. Re:MS Failures... by NanoGator · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "How about the crap that MS pulled by placing the minimize/maximize right next to the close button (whereas in previous UIs the close button had been on the left so that it would be nearly impossible to exit an app accidentally while trying to minimize)?"

      You mean like KDE does? ;)

      The problem I have with this argument is that there is no good place to put the close button. Put it in the upper left, and when somebody goes to file/open they could miss and close the app. Put it in the lower left and they could hit it when going for the scrollbar, same for lower right. Then there's the whole matter of where people resize from.

      Actually, Apple did have a solution to this problem, but it's not as great as some people have made it out to be. If you open an app like IE, the titlebar is maximized to the top and your browser window is a child of that titlebar. If you switch to another app, then the titlebar is replaced with the bar of the new app. Result? Closing an app always means going to the upper left in the exact same spot.

      Your problem is solved here, but a new one emerges: Closing the wrong app. You no longer have positional reference to specify which app you are closing. You could end up closing Photoshop while you really intended to kill IE. How would ya know without reading what the bar says?

      To make a long story short, the problem you are describing has no easy solution. Nobody's solved it without creating a new nasty problem. You just have to rely on accuracy of the mouse pointer. And you know what? One has to be accurate with the mouse anyway. The same argument for clicking the wrong window box could be made for clicking on the wrong file to copy or clicking on the wrong menu choice. At some point, the input has to be accurate for the computer to work at all.

      So no, I don't feel that MS has 'pulled any crap'. I don't feel that they've made a better solution than anybody else either.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    12. Re:MS Failures... by schwanerhill · · Score: 4, Informative

      OS X's close and minimize (and zoom) buttons are all separated by several pixels, so you're much less likely to hit one when you mean to hit another. Windows, on the other hand, has no separation between the buttons, so if you miss the maximize button by one pixel, you close the window.

      Consequently, I have accidently closed windows in Windows numerous times (even though I use Windows rarely), while I have essentially never done so in OS X (which I use all the time).

    13. Re:MS Failures... by NeoSkandranon · · Score: 4, Funny

      Um, there's an entire other button between the minimize and close buttons. If you're missing that badly perhaps you have other issues you need to work on

      --
      If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
  2. Don't forget Microsoft Bob! by savaget · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Don't forget Microsoft Bob!

    1. Re:Don't forget Microsoft Bob! by jpmkm · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm pretty sure they didn't.

    2. Re:Don't forget Microsoft Bob! by TedCheshireAcad · · Score: 4, Interesting

      MS Bob was a bad idea not only programmatically, but also conceptually. A 'virtual office'? It defeated the idea of computing as an office aide, and more of an office replacement.

      Truly an example of why coding to the lowest common denominator of users can be a bad idea.

    3. Re:Don't forget Microsoft Bob! by the_tallman · · Score: 3, Funny
      The highlight of Macworld Boston for me was the excellent anti-MS Bob t-shirts. The back of the shirt featured a Marathon "Bob" (human assistant) grabbing MS Bob by his collar and holding a gun to his face. In bloody letters the caption read, "My Bob is bigger than your Bob." Priceless.

      --
      There is no graceful way to eat an egg salad sandwich.
    4. Re:Don't forget Microsoft Bob! by OOGG_THE_CAVEMAN · · Score: 3, Funny

      OOGG once try customize Assistant. Pick figure of Einstein. OOGG expect knowledge of general relativity be handy supplement to stone-age physics training.

      OOGG soon find Einstein as stupid as paper clip!

      Assistant have very important feature, however. No matter how badly stone-age machine thrash due to RAM shortage, Einstein still use machine cycles to rock back on heels, look around screen, generally observing lack of useful work going on.

  3. Abe Lincoln... by Superfreaker · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...failed at just about everything before becoming president.
    You can't innovate without failure (opens door for innovation comment trolls). The article discusses technologies that they DID help pioneer, not just the ones they usurped.

    1. Re:Abe Lincoln... by TrippTDF · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ...failed at just about everything before becoming president.
      You can't innovate without failure (opens door for innovation comment trolls). The article discusses technologies that they DID help pioneer, not just the ones they usurped.


      There are a lot of Venture Capitalists that won't even think to give you money unless you've got a failure or two behind you.

      -and let's not forget the term "Trial and Error" even if you are not intending to use it, there is an element of it in any venture.

  4. Failures don't matter by timeOday · · Score: 5, Insightful
    ...well, not when you've got guaranteed income from locking millions of customers into your cash cows. Gotta spend money on something or investors will get all uppity and start demanding dividends and whatnot.

    But seriously, everybody knows experimentation and failure cannot be avoided. Most businesses just don't have the luxury of failing with no penalty.

  5. 5 responses below by LordOfYourPants · · Score: 5, Insightful

    and 3 of them ask "What about Microsoft Bob?"

    The article says:

    "More than 100 products were launched in rapid succession over 18 months, from childhood creativity (Fine Artist) to a cartoony "social interface" to make Windows appear friendlier to the pathologically computer phobic (1995's Microsoft Bob, a much-maligned happy face with geek glasses)."

    I know this can be misconstrued as karma whoring, but I think it's more of a Geraldo-style expose on why RTFAing is necessary.

  6. Flashbacks by isam_b · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It is really interting to read about Microsoft Flops.. Although I had been using Linux as a main OS for 6 years, I have to say that there are a number of failiars that the Open Source (Free software, what ever) community faced in the past years as well.. what counts is how did they get over it, and pass it. Microsoft (Although I generally disagree with thier policies) had been successful in letting things go behind them, and move forward, while I still hear people in the OSS talk about Coral Linux and other failed OSS based projects.. Move on

  7. Right... by PincheGab · · Score: 5, Insightful
    And as soon as you go into business for yourself, you will learn that failure is an integral and unavoidable part of success. If you think that big companies get absolutely everything right, you are very very wrong.

    Now, why would failures "be swept under the rug"? Failures are abandoned projects, never-finished products, non-sellers, etc... They are simply left behind, not hidden.

    There's a famous cliche that says "If you never fail, you are not taking enough risks." As a business person and someone who has failed several times before getting it right, I can tell you the saying is true. If you dislike failure, then go into business.

    In other words, what the hell is your point?

  8. Man I love that quote... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Of course, like any big company, Microsoft is not a monolith.....

    Yes, but they do have a heart of stone.

    Looks Like Troll Microsoft Day.

  9. This flamebait, nah. by binaryDigit · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The nerve of Microsoft to want people to not think about their failures and only focus on success'. After all, so many other companies have been perfect in all their products. And who wants innovation anyway (yeah, I know, M$ doesn't really "innovate" anyway). Better to stay tried and true and realize that it's better to limp along with mediocrity than to go out on a limb and fail.

    Actually, I think the topic is intersting, as in genuinly interesting to see the things that they've tried and failed at. Those things they tried and failed and tried and failed and eventually succeeded (with Windows being the most obvious example). And obviously some attempts were quite humerous, but to turn this into a "gee see how much M$ really sucks" is just lame and shows how much some /.'ers need to go out and get a life and gain some perspective.

  10. Nice flamebait! by MisterFancypants · · Score: 4, Informative
    According to CIOs and studies such as the one the Peopleware book is based on the *majority* of started software projects fail. Why should we expect Microsoft to buck the norm here?

    in the hopes people don't remember that many 'new' Microsoft ideas are recycled from its own history."

    Microsoft's try-try-again philosophy and focused determination are why it is at the top of the heap of software companies and why they are sitting on the 45 billion in cash now.

    This being Slashdot, people will say that the reason Microsoft is so big is because of its monopoly position, but that is a (rather silly) chicken and egg argument. They'd have no monopoly if they weren't big to begin with -- they certainly weren't a government granted monopoly like AT&T once was.

  11. Not a monolith, huh? by Henry+V+.009 · · Score: 4, Funny

    The first time I ever got to the Easter Egg in Excel:

    "My God, it's full of stars."

    And I am sure that Windows 2025 will periodically lock me out of my house and try to kill me with my robotic lawn mower.

    1. Re:Not a monolith, huh? by sTalking_Goat · · Score: 3, Funny
      And I am sure that Windows 2025 will periodically lock me out of my house and try to kill me with my robotic lawn mower.

      god don't be so cynical. Win 2025 will do none of those things. It might however replay objects when something is changed giving you that strange feeling of Deja Vu, and there's always the posibilty that'll it'l send men in SNAZZY black suits after you if you start asking questions like "What is real?". But these aren't things you should worry about. Nothing to see here. Move along...

      --

      My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle...

  12. Core Business by rf0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Like all business they made mistakes when tyring something new. However on their core business they have provided a wide spread, realtivly easy to use concurrent platform with Office + Windows. If you look at all OSS office sweets etc they all at least try to read/write M$ Office as it is a standard. Not saying its a good one but its a standard

    Bob in Marketing can send Maggie in Accounts a spreadsheet and be able to read it. Thats gotta count for something

    Rus

  13. Well, there IS the XBox.... by mblase · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Regardless of how much money MS may lose on the hardware, the XBox is an unqualified success in the videogame market. Last I checked, it was still outselling Nintendo's GameCube.

    Watching Microsoft explore new technology markets is like watching King Kong battling airplanes atop the Empire State Building. To win, the airplanes need to be lucky with every shot. King Kong only needs to be lucky once.

    1. Re:Well, there IS the XBox.... by Col.+Klink+(retired) · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If "units shipped" is the only measure of success, then the CueCat was also an unqualified success.

      --

      -- Don't Tase me, bro!

    2. Re:Well, there IS the XBox.... by Troed · · Score: 3, Informative

      Check again. According to MS, the Xbox had sold 9.4M on the 30:th of June. On the 30:th of March Nintendo had sold 9.55M Gamecubes.

      So, even with a LOT of Xboxes only being sold since they can be modchipped (Gamecubes cannot) and run pirated games aswell as functioning as media-servers or emulator-hosts - AND is being subsidized by Microsoft (latest figures I've seen place that around $100 per unit) - it still fails to sell as good as the Gamecube.

      The Gamecube, being good at ... games. It's not hacked. It doesn't play DVDs. It doesn't function as a home entertainment unit capable of playing DivX, mp3 etc. ... it's "only" got the best games.

  14. What's the point? by defunc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What's the point of the original poster? Do ./ readers find Microsoft such a despicable entity that they need to post such articles to remind people that they also fail? May be it was meant as a joke, but still, very poor taste.

    For those who hate them so much (they're a business, they are supposed to make money), don't you think one minute any other company in their shoes would have acted differently, including the envious Sun and over zealous Oracle.

    The Gates foundation is today the biggest charitable contributer, funded by the founder himself. Sure, it's a tax relief for him, but he didn't have to do it to help researchers in financial terms in finding vaccin to the most common diseases affecting the 3rd world in the first place. Thats $10 bill available for worthy causes.

    Instead, it's hotter nerdy news to point out the failures of Microsoft as a company. Since when did we become so negative about the good things that's happening in this world?

    --
    .defuncrc
    1. Re:What's the point? by jayhawk88 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      People don't hate Microsoft because they're rich and powerful and did very well as a company. People hate Microsoft because to get big and rich and powerful, they often used questionable business and marketing tactics

    2. Re:What's the point? by echucker · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What's the point of the original poster? Do ./ readers find Microsoft such a despicable entity that they need to post such articles to remind people that they also fail? May be it was meant as a joke, but still, very poor taste.


      IMHO, I think the better question is why are they actually posted by the editors.

      Permit me to answer my own question - they make people click on the story, which increases ad revenue. Simple as that.

  15. Remember "HailStorm"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Microsoft made a huge deal on Hail Storm when they announced it a couple of years ago. Then they very quietly declared it "dead" this Spring.

  16. Wait a minute... by brooks_talley · · Score: 5, Funny

    You mean Microsoft may actually be working to skew news coverage and public opinion towards the things they've been successful at? And away from technical and marketing blunders?

    What an outrage! I'm going to write to my representatives right now and demand a new law that forces companies to educate consumers about both their strengths and weaknesses, and that requires them to spend an equal amount on publicizing past failures as they do on promoting new initiatives.

    I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you. What a failure of the market! What an unconscionable series of dirty tricks from Microsoft! How dare they! Hey, does anyone know what the school assembly is about today?

    Cheers
    -b

  17. Re:Don't forget the ever popular clippy by mccalli · · Score: 3, Insightful
    You know, I know people who like Clippy. That's good, because as you've guessed they're also the people who need it.

    I know no-one who doesn't find "It looks like you're typing a letter..." annoying. But that's not all of what the assistants do. They provide hints, and they provide an on-screen place to click and ask for help, in more-or-less plain language. Pressing F1 wouldn't occur to the people I'm talking about, nor are they likely to hunt in the menus.

    Now, these people aren't daft. All intelligent people, all done well in their own field. It's just that that field isn't computing, and they also don't have the interest to make it into a hobby.

    Summary: don't knock Clippy too much. The excesses are annoying, but I don't rate the basic idea as a failure.

    Cheers,
    Ian

  18. Oddly named products by Aldurn · · Score: 5, Funny

    I do actually have a copy of the Microsoft Wine Guide sitting on my desk.

    I did a double-take when I saw it at the library.

    (It's not on Microsoft's site anymore, but the first Google hit was a review of it).

    --
    char sig[120] = "\0"
  19. Think Gates helps out on fighting aids? by Jonny+Ringo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Here is a recent interesting guerrillanews article.

    "Let me let you in on a little secret about Bill and Melinda Gates so-called ?Foundation.? Gate?s demi-trillionaire status is based on a nasty little monopoly-protecting trade treaty called ?TRIPS? ? the Trade-Related Intellectual Property Rights rules of the World Trade Organization. TRIPS gives Gates a hammerlock on computer operating systems worldwide, legally granting him a monopoly that the Robber Barons of yore could only dream of. But TRIPS, the rule which helps Gates rule, also bars African governments from buying AIDS, malaria and tuberculosis medicine at cheap market prices. "

  20. They can afford to fail... by YllabianBitPipe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And I mean that literally. When Windows first came out it was a piece of crap. But they have so much money that they can afford for a technology to do terribly for years until a market is built up, the technology gets better (like to version 3), and all the competitors burn through cash and fall by the wayside.

    We laugh at stuff like Tablet PC, Microsoft Reader, XBox or WebTV, but look at some of the "sucesses" of Microsoft and you can realize they had several years of an early period where they sucked, too. Namely, Windows, Pocket PC, Internet Explorer. Just a few years ago, it was thought a foregone conclusion Netscape and Palm owned the market and Microsoft lost.

  21. ActiMates Barney by bakkajin · · Score: 3, Funny

    When I was working at a software store we got one of the Barney's in. We used to cover up the eyes of Barney for a few mintues at a time just to hear the complaints that he would start saying.

    Where did you go?

    I can't see you.

    I'm scared of the dark.

    Let's play another game!


    Cheap laughs at Barney's expense. We never did sell the thing though.

  22. What about... by tds67 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Let us not forget the iLoo, Microsoft's crappiest idea yet.

  23. Re:Remember MS Bob ? by TastyWords · · Score: 5, Interesting

    One tidbit of Microsoft trivia which seems to be left out everytime there's a discussion about Microsoft Bob. Who was the product manager? Melinda French. Where is she now and what's she doing? She's Mrs. Gates.

  24. Re:Failure breeds success by The+Masked+Fruitcake · · Score: 3, Funny

    Ugh! After this article, Slashdot needs a new mod category:

    -1, Cliché

    --
    Sola Scriptura * Sola Gratia * Sola Fide * Solus Christus * Soli Deo Gloria
  25. Re:Failure breeds success by jazman_777 · · Score: 3, Funny
    If you are afraid to fail, you will never succeed.

    If you are afraid to succeed, you will never fail.

    --
    Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
  26. Re:Don't forget the ever popular clippy by TastyWords · · Score: 3, Funny

    Clippy is Microsoft Bob's inbred descendent.

  27. Journalistic critique by tarquin_fim_bim · · Score: 3, Funny

    "Yet Microsoft has trouble whenever it tries to grow outside of this core competency"

    Is competency really the correct word to use here?

  28. ummm... no by boarder · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Sure Maggie can read that spreadsheet... assuming she has the same or newer version of Excel... and that she has all the (virus friendly) macros turned on... and that she has the Toolpack Addins installed.

    I used to do support for a large number of purely office users (business office managers, secretaries, etc). I was always fielding questions as to why they couldn't open one person's document or why another person couldn't open theirs. This was at a large public university, so funds weren't just growing on trees; therefore we couldn't just upgrade everytime MS did. Also, with every upgrade there are some tool/method/appearance changes; this means that Maggie has to relearn how to do her special tasks (not all of them, but some).

    It just felt to me that with every Office upgrade, MS tried to do something dramatically different (as opposed to just fixing bugs or giving speed increases). And when you have a large number of users set in their ways (working nicely and efficiently), changing them on a regular basis is not a good idea.

    --
    IANAL, but I play one on /.
  29. Re:So, what's the news? by michael_cain · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I guess I would come at it from a different direction -- is it surprising how few of their ventures have succeeded? The list of products would have to include:
    • DOS
    • Windows
    • Office
    • Visual Studio
    • IE
    • Windows Media Player
    • MSN
    • XBox

    DOS and IE were initially products purchased from another company. Of the components that make up Office, I believe that PowerPoint was purchased from another company (and not sure, but want to say the same thing about Excel). WMP is given away for free (if you bought Windows). MSN takes in money, but I believe it is not profitable. Ditto for XBox. Visual Studio is probably profitable, but they don't sell a lot of copies relative to the market for Windows and Office.

    If I were an investor, I would be concerned that the most successful software company in the world has so few successful products, and that even fewer of those were initially developed internally.

  30. Re:In the future, will the XBox be added? by PitaBred · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The problem with your comment is that that is the business model that both Sony and Nintendo follow. It's a successful model. It's just that you can't buy loyalty from gamers. They've had what, Halo? That's the only game I can think of for the XBox that wasn't multiplatform that I even remotely wanted to play. MS is trying to make the console more like it's PC's, with DirectX and all kinds of computer hardware. So it's virtually a PC. I don't want to play games on something I can do that much with. I will play games on a gaming machine, and do work on my PC. MS has failed to realize that this is what a lot of people want. Since this is going nowhere in many directions all at once, I figure that now would be a safe jumping off point...

  31. A couple more of Microsoft's forgotten mistakes by DogIsMyCoprocessor · · Score: 4, Funny
    • Getting involved in a land war in Asia
    • Going in against a Sicilian, when death is on the line
    --

    "And this is my boy, Sherman. Speak, Sherman." "Hello." "Good boy."

  32. That is so untrue by burgburgburg · · Score: 3, Funny
    [spoiler alert]


    Young Mr. Lincoln saved those Clay boys and proved that it was John Palmer Cass that did the stabbing.

    If that wasn't an innovative use of the Farmer's Almanac to prove it couldn't have been moon bright, I don't know what is!

  33. A few differences by burgburgburg · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Abe wrote his own speeches.
    Abe started out poor and had to work for everything he got.
    Abe worked hard to educate himself.
    Abe was never saved again and again and again from repeated business failures by friends/supplicants to his family.
    Abe was forced by circumstances into military action, designed to save the country.
    Abe was elected President.

  34. No microsoft Mistake will be forgotten by geekoid · · Score: 4, Funny

    as long as there is /.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  35. Linux is Microsoft's biggest failure... by gillbates · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Microsoft completely missed the boat on the low-cost Intel server bandwagon. After 10 years of Windows NT technology (yeah, it's built into W2K and XP too), Microsoft has failed to gain even an appreciable share in the Intel server market.

    Microsoft has been saying for years that Windows NT/2000/XP is an alternative to UNIX, and later Linux, but their attempt to penetrate the UNIX market has been an abject failure. I think Microsoft is slowly starting to realize that catchy phrases like "Enterprise Class Computing" and "Mission Critical" don't fool the UNIX crowd.

    Granted, I'm not trying to troll, but it seems to me that UNIX and mainframe folks have a much different expectation of reliability and uptime than Microsoft, and Microsoft has been slow in realizing this. At this point, the reliability of WinXP is inconsequential; Microsoft has been so successful on the desktop that they will be forever known as a desktop vendor. When people think of Microsoft, they think of butterflies and games and multimedia - not exactly the images one wants to associate with their "mission critical server" vendor. This, combined with their hostile attitude toward UNIX and the open source philosophy practically gaurantees that Microsoft will never be accepted as anything more than a toy by the UNIX crowd.

    --
    The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
    1. Re:Linux is Microsoft's biggest failure... by Billly+Gates · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Are you kidding?

      Microsoft owns well over 50% of this market and they are still growing! They ate SCO for breakfest and badly damaged Novell.

      Yes Linux is here but most studies show it replacing Risc Unix boxes. This trend is continuing. Linux and MS are both gaining and Unix is losing.

      I suppose one could make an argument that Unix is still around and it was pronounced dead by the pro -MS press at ziff davis but it just is not as flexible as Unix.

      Windows2k an Windows2k3 is about as stable and bugfree as unix. Don't pretend it isn't. It really is if you ask any professional administrator. NT4 was a different story. Windows2k3 from the benchmarks I have seen show it can really scale better then w2k on 32-way boxes. Windows is catching up.

      In this new age of cost cutting FreeBSD and Linux may start replacing NT in the future. Proprietary apps written in .net and vb will further increase the demand for Windows. Remember the phb's like uniform platforms and standards. If Windows can run in a given environment then it will be chosen.

      Odd since NT was the unix killer because of its price and it could run on intel hardware. It turns out Linux beat them at its own game and has the pluss of flexibilty that Unix brings.

  36. Risk is part of business by corgicorgi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Whoever that wrote this probably don't know much about managing a business. In any business, you have to take risks. The difference between a sucessful business and one that is not, is being able to calculate your risks by recognizing its cost and profit. MS's "failure" maybe more apparent because the dollar amount they invest on pushing out a product is more than a small company's entire budget. But that's just scaling. Any company will find some of its investment a hit, and some are miss. You can list all the battles MS has lost in, but I think in the end MS has won the war (ie. it is successful in overall).

    The fact that MS has the infrastructure to invest in so many areas of the market and the backing to take some losts is a sign of a successful company.

  37. Re:Don't forget the ever popular clippy by csguy314 · · Score: 4, Funny
    It looks like you're writing a pro-Microsoft post on Slashdot. Would you like me to:
    • Slashdot your homepage into oblivion
    • Send several million trolls your email address
    • Revoke your access to Slashdot
    • Send you a complementary MCSE certification

    --
    This is left as an exercise for the reader.
  38. Re:XBox their highest profile failure - Real Soon by bmajik · · Score: 4, Insightful

    bollocks. xbox live has smashed projections and MS has the highest game-attach rate of any modern console.

    Xbox is not a failure. KOTOR has been selling like hot cakes since its release last week. MS has come into an industry dominated by sony and already displaced nintendo in the US for the #2 spot. MS has the #1 online system for consoles after less than a year.

    Sony is slowly recalling their previous PS3 hype and backpedalling on all their statements about PS3. Thats the penalty for cranking out hype way ahead of itme ot try and buy time to make something real. It worked to kill the dreamcast, but it wont work with xbox.

    (see also: PS3 WONT have the Cell chip in it)

    Xbox will probably not beat PS2 for this generation, but i do expect it to reach parity. PS3 vs XBox2 is a level playing field, IMO.

    --
    My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
  39. Failures often precede greatness.. by gatekeep · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Lots of people have said this already, but failure is a part of life. Being able to pick up the pieces and persist is what seperates the great and/or successful from the mediocre. Read up sometime about Milton Hershey Prior to founding Hershey, the candy company, he went bankrupt at least once, and started several other failed companies. The part that made him successful was his persistence and drive to succeed. After his many failures, he eventually had success and established one of the largest corporations the world has seen.

  40. Microsoft needs to grow up by cmacb · · Score: 5, Insightful
    "Microsoft ultimately might become a prisoner of the industry it helped create. Much like IBM, the earlier leader in computing that Microsoft trumped in the 1980s, Microsoft's fate might be as tied to personal computers as IBM's was tied to mainframes."

    Good article up to the last paragraph. Microsoft should strive to be much more like IBM, but it has waited far to long to start. IBM has a huge patent portfolio which they have been a lot more judicious in enforcing than SCO for example. They are also better diversified into the "service" sector. Microsoft has a consulting division, but they are only geared toward helping to sell Microsoft solutions, they quickly show themselves to be nothing more than technical sales reps.

    Microsoft has put it's name on mice and keyboards. Very clever, but they don't make anything. Behind IBM's outsourced hardware is a still viable manufacturing and fabrication operation (again, more fundamental research going on here). You might think of IBM as Microsoft, Dell, and Intel all rolled into one. Each of these companies can succeed or fail based on one or two key product lines. IBM became a true corporation a long time ago. Dell and Microsoft are still the product of individuals, with all the strengths and weaknesses of that approach.

  41. Re:Abe Lincoln...and Michael Jordan by wxyze · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There was a Nike commercial that ran a little while ago with Michael Jordan saying:

    "I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty-six times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."

    I have no more love for MS and what they do and how they do it than anyone else here, but no one ever accomplishes very much without repeated failures along the way.

  42. Rhetoric by Tony · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They'd have no monopoly if they weren't big to begin with -- they certainly weren't a government granted monopoly like AT&T once was.

    No, they were an IBM-granted monopoly.

    The "chicken-and-egg" problem isn't a problem, because they got to be a monopoly by exploiting the hobbyist nature of the beginning of the personal computer revolution. Microsoft was there from the beginning; and from the beginning, they used other people's code (BASIC for the Altair, for example, which was ported from available sources; the only thing neat and original about that is the way in which it was ported, and Paul Allen was the one doing the heavy lifting).

    Before the IBM PC (and their Charley Chaplin ads), the Apple ][ was making inroads into corporate culture, though mostly through the back door. Apple did not have much legitimacy in the corporate culture of the time. So, IBM decided (on a lark, essentially) to create a hobbyist computer of their own, only geared toward corporate culture.

    Mr. Gates' mother was on the (Red Cross?) board of directors with one of the top execs of IBM. This connection was Microsoft's major break. As IBM did not take this project too seriously, they met with Bill Gates and Paul Allen, who sold them a CP/M-like operating system they had "developed" for the 8086. (In fact, they had done no such thing.)

    Once they sold IBM on the idea, they scampered back to Seattle and purchased outright the proto-DOS from a small Seattle company. Selling price: $10k. The Seattle company knew nothing about the IBM deal. Mr. Gates screwed this company, instead of dealing fairly with them (which would have involved giving him or his company a small stake in all sales of DOS).

    (At this point, a bunch of you are screaming, "But they made the deal! It was all fair!" To which I reply, no fucking way was it fair. It was exploitation, and preyed on ignorance, which is about as moral as taking sexual advantage of a mentally handicapped person. Businesses can make money without fucking over people at every possible opportunity.)

    So, with IBM's legitimacy, and Microsoft's ownership of of MS-DOS and a deal to ship this DOS with every PC, Microsoft began its PC life with the monopoly on desktop operating systems.

    When the first clones came out, Compaq should have also cloned the OS; ironically, though they weren't willing to pay royalties on the IBM BIOS, they were willing to pay for the OS.

    Those in control of Microsoft have made very cunning deals. But, yes, they *did* start off in a monopoly position of a very small market, and grew as the market grew.

    But, *completely* off-topic, let me pose this question: if Microsoft has proven it will not play fairly with other businesses (that Seattle company wasn't even a competitor at the time, but a potential partner), why should we expect them to play fairly with their customers if they don't have to?

    Microsoft's try-try-again philosophy and focused determination are why it is at the top of the heap of software companies and why they are sitting on the 45 billion in cash now.

    Hardly. Their willingness to fuck over anyone and everyone in pursuit of market dominance is the reason they are at the top of the software heap.

    --
    Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
    1. Re:Rhetoric by aziraphale · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You know, I've heard this story before - many, many times. Not about Microsoft. And when it's about other companies, it's often not couched in such negative terms.

      Here's one variant of it:

      This guy was a small-time businessman, he'd dropped out of college to start a company with a few mates, and they were working on stuff they enjoyed. The product they were working on was pretty niche, and nobody really thought it would go anywhere, but they believed in it. An opportunity came along to work with a big player, and they signed up to the deal - not really knowing how to fulfil their end of the bargain, but knowing they could find some way to do it - that's just how small companies operate. In the end, they bought some obsolete equipment from some other company that couldn't really find a way to make money out of it, and then when the product took off, they ended up millionnaires...

      It's all in how you tell it, isn't it?

      It's easy to say 'Bill knew he had a multi-billion dollar business licensing DOS to IBM, and he cut out the poor saps he bought DOS from', but of course, hindsight's a wonderful thing; MS thought PCs might be big, but there was no guarantee (and until the clones came along, remember, MS was always at risk of IBM bringing out a new platform, or changing the deal). He took a business risk - licensing the software from a small business in Seattle who weren't willing or able to make a similar deal themselves. They charged what they thought it was worth. That they were proven to have grossly undercharged is their mistake - they didn't see its potential as a PC OS, or predict the PC market exploding the way it did - nobody could have. _Not_even_Bill_Gates_ knew it would work out.

      My point is, somebody makes a ten grand investment and ends up in a strong position to take over what is going to be one of the biggest markets in the world - well done him. There's no point moaning about it - just learn from it, and realise that it means everybody else needs to try harder...

  43. Bob... by Superfreaker · · Score: 3, Informative
  44. My impression. by mindstrm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    From a pure UI point of view:

    Gnome is apple like. The way the application bars work is more logical, and flows better (or woudl if it wasn't so slow)

    KDE is windows like. It definately wants to be like windows.

    Of course, KDE is a lot faster and smoother overall.. soy ou be the judge.

    Apple isn't that pissy about aqua knock offs. They were concerned about brand recognition for their new OS.. that's all. The usability and UI design of the Mac goes far beyond the color and shape of some buttons.

    There is a huge difference in ease of use for a new user between the UI in windows and the mac.. they are not just two different variations of the same thing.. the apple interface is very well researched, they understand how people naturally try to use things, how your attention flows.....
    Microsoft does not. Their interface is not BAD, there are certainly far worse.. but they really don't get it as far as real UI design.

  45. Monopoly by Camel+Pilot · · Score: 4, Informative

    And it takes a monopoly to be able to survive such stunning blunders like missing the emergence of something as powerful as the internet.

    Without MS monopolistic cash income stream they would have suffered serious blows screwing up like they have. That is why I wish that part of the settlement MS would have been prevented them from buying technology but force them to "innovate" from scratch and compete.

  46. Even BSOD... by jmoriarty · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...went through several revisions. First was the Pink Screen Of Pain, then the Tangerine Screen Of Torture. It wasn't until several million dollars had been poured into Windows development that the Blue Screen Of Death finally became the norm.

  47. Microsoft Should Stick With R-e-a-l Software by reallocate · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Most of these botched Microsoft projects were efforts to extend the PC as an entertainment device.

    Well, the PC isn't an entertainment device, and trying to make it one is as sensible as trying to turn your TV into a computer just because there are chips inside.

    If Microsoft wants to make toys, they should buy a toy company. Otherwise, they should stick to real software.

    And, so should Linux.

    --
    -- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
  48. This is news? by lseltzer · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This was one of the great sloppy lines of logic on which the trial was built. You might have noticed that Internet Explorer versions 1, 2, and basically 3 were failures, even though they too were bundled with Windows. THis was because they sucked. Microsoft products succeed when they do what customers want.

  49. Microsoft Bob Day by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's nice to know I'm not the only one with embarrassing stuff sitting in the Google Groups archive...

    REDMOND, WASHINGTON, U.S.A., 1995 MAR 31 (NB) -- Microsoft Corp. (NASDAQ:MSFT) Chairman Bill gates has named this "Microsoft Bob Day." Bob is the nerdy looking guy with the black plastic-frame glasses who, according to Microsoft "gives new meaning" to the computer term "user friendly"
    Today is Microsoft Bob Day because it is the first day the user interface software of that name will be available in retail outlets. Microsoft hopes every IBM-compatible user in the country will welcome Microsoft Bob into their home and/or office. Bob features animated personal guides that navigate users through Bob's eight applications.
    Microsoft may see Bob as a "simpler" user interface, but retailers see it as a sales tool, with several mass market retailers featuring Bob promotions. Sears stores are offering consumers the opportunity to meet Bob via exclusive "technology makeovers." Through April 30, 1995, the national chain is offering a personal consultation to help assess your level of computer knowledge and experience. The consultation is designed to show that with Microsoft Bob's help just about anyone can be a "techno-whiz."
    CompUSA is so enamored with Microsoft Bob it will offer two days -- April 29 and 30 -- of Bob demos and promotions in all its retail outlets. "Bob allows us to talk to an even broader mix of customers," said Larry Mondry, CompUSA executive vice president of merchandising.
    The underlying philosophy of Microsoft Bob may be "simplicity of use," but it won't run on a simple PC. As a minimum you need Windows 3.1 or higher, a 486 or higher microprocessor, eight megabytes (MB) of memory, 30MB of available hard disk space, a Super VGA 256-color monitor, and a mouse of comparable pointing device. That eliminates many of the PCs in homes and small offices that have 4MB of memory, unless the owner is willing to upgrade. If you want Bob to send your electronic-mail or pay your bills online you will also need a modem. Microsoft also calls a sound card and speakers "recommended options."
    Microsoft is banking heavily on Bob's ease of use. As a result there is no manual with the software. Each user can choose one of the animated helpers Bob provides, which include a dog, a cat, "Scuz" the teenager, a parrot, and a "friendly dragon."
    Microsoft Bob's opening screen is a red front door with a brass door knocker and your personal animated helper to suggest, through pointing and text messages, where you should go. Interestingly, while the guy with the friendly smile and the heavy glasses is the namesake of the program, he doesn't actually appear in the software.
    The eight functions Bob brings to your home or office are a letter writer, calendar, checkbook/financial management program, household manager for managing household information, address book, e-mail, a quiz game called GeoSafari, and a financial guide that provides financial information and tips. The various programs are integrated so you can write a letter and pull in the appropriate address from the address book, then send the letter electronically via e-mail.
    Bob may be a gamble for Microsoft. The company hopes users will accept the cartoonish look-and-feel of the program intended to make computing easier, but it remains to be seen if experienced computer users will be attracted to the program.
    When Bill Gates introduced Microsoft Bob in January at the Consumer Electronics Show he pointed out that Bob is for both new users and users who have a computer but don't make use of it because it requires too much in the way of learning skills and pouring through manuals. "Using Bob, people will learn faster and easier and even learn more about application features they would not otherwise become familiar with," said Gates.
    Bob uses a relatively new user interface technique, called a

  50. Re:Abe Lincoln: failed at being President too... by TheIzzy · · Score: 3, Informative
    He failed to reach a non-military solution

    Abe didn't fail at reaching the non-military solution, the generations that came before him that created the problems failed. When he was elected president, he did not declare war on the South, but the South declared war on him (Ft. Sumter). Lincoln was not responsible for the lives lost during the Civil War. Every man in the United States (North and South) had an opportunity to fix the rising tensions between the two sides with their ballot and their attitude. They did not, Lincoln fixed their mistakes and restored the union.

    Sherman gave ample warning to towns before buldozing them. And sadly, war does involve restless boys who desrie to rape people, but that cannot be considered the leader's fault.

    Now I understand that even the greatest men have their flaws (and Abe certainly wasn't the perfect leader), but our nation needs more men willing to fight for justice, and I'm damn proud when I look on the Lincoln memorial.

  51. Re:So, what's the news? by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Add to that:

    mice
    keyboards
    joysticks
    wide range of games, incl FlightSim
    MSMoney
    Windows CE
    ActiveX
    FrontPage
    Encarta
    Exchange
    MSProject

    Not all wildly sucessful, but not doing too bad.

    There are others.

    But the main thing they have is mindshare. Ask anyone outside of a few select communities (/. for one), and who makes software? Microsoft. And maybe IBM.

  52. Re:So, what's the news? by TheAncientHacker · · Score: 3, Insightful

    OK. Let's look at these. MS-DOS 1.0 was, indeed, very close to the code licensed and later purchased from SCP. Of course, by MS-DOS 2.0 and support for hard drives it was almost totally rewritten and all versions after 2.0 were written in-house except for the miserable 4.00 that IBM insisted on writing (4.01 which was rewritten by MS was pretty good) Since almost nobody here used MS-DOS 1.0 or 1.1 which still had significant amounts of SCP code your point is moot.

    As for IE, even 1.0 was written in-house although some code used in it was licensed from NSCA Mosaic. Of course, that code was also included in virtually every other browser on the planet so, again, you don't have a point with this one.

    PowerPoint was indeed purchased along with the entire company that made it and they kept developing it in the valley. On the other hand, Excel was totally developed in-house as were Word and Access and Outlook. You could also have mentioned Visio as a purchased product, btw.

    So that only leaves the top client OS, top server OS, top word processor, top spreadsheet, top client database, top server database, top mail server, etc, etc, etc as product that Microsoft developed. Wow. What a failure.

  53. Ahhh.. Bob.. by Drathos · · Score: 5, Funny

    I remember the first (and last) time I saw MS Bob. It was running on a computer at CompUSA. Really annoying.. I asked the nearest sales guy what he thought of if. "Damned annoying. We can't get it to stop."

    I uninstalled it.. He thanked me..

    --
    End of line..
  54. Re:Remember MS Bob ? by One+Louder · · Score: 4, Funny

    In my opinion, the penalty for failure at Microsoft is far too severe .

  55. My Microsoft impressions......... by MegaHamsterX · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I hope a few people at Microsoft will glance at this, but more than likely they won't, or will and can't change a thing.

    I completely dislike windows. I don't consider it worthy of much more than solitare, however, I like Microsoft applications, they are well put together, have great functionality and work well. Wine wouldn't be where it's at now if this wan't true. MicroSoft's strength is solid applications.

    If Microsoft were to ditch their operating system completely on the desktop and spec a GNU/Linux or FreeBSD OS to be assembled by system integrators it would be a leap forward, no one cares about the operating system, it's the applications. The OS only comes into play when it repeatedly crashes, when explorer crashes, when odd programs cause the whole OS to freak out, or buggy drivers lead you to the BSOD.

    XP is buggy as hell, I can push an XP system in the wrong way and get it to crash quickly, in some cases faster than Win2K.

    Microsoft should port their apps to some sort of VM instruction set and make a VM for each operating system out there. We all know windows would run it faster, I really don't care, I need reliablity. Give me both and Redmond will get my cash, and my client's cash as well.

    Until then OpenOffice gets better every release, X gets better every release and Gnome and KDE are both headed in the right direction, there may soon be no need for MicroSoft at all if this continues.

    Their downfall will be Billy G's arrogance.

  56. MS Failures, MS Successes by DavidBrown · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The reason why Microsoft is still around is that the company is still taking risks. So what if there are a bunch of failed products in the Microsoft catalog? It's evidence of something that many people don't like to admit: Microsoft is innovative. Some of the innovations don't work, but many its efforts succeed and, at least to date, more than make up for its failures.

    --
    144l. ph34r my 133t l3g4l 5k1lz!
  57. Interesting Quote by Quila · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "They've done a really brilliant job in leveraging their strengths in the desktop operating system and applications and tying it to the server," says Davis.

    Um, isn't that exactly why they were under investigation in the EU?