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Build-to-Order Cars?
MadMonk writes "Baseline has an article about a new car company that wants to be 'the Dell of the auto industry.' Build-To-Order, Inc. could turn the auto industry on its ear. At worst, BTO will be an interesting technology petri dish. I want a customized car to match my customized computer."
Insert random quotation about the hood being helding shut.
You are not the customer.
isn't calling a dell computer a "custom" computer a bit of a stretch? they're interchangable parts, its not like they are custom built.
it's henry fords interchangable parts manufacturing line, but with mcdonalds order panels telling the monkey what part to put in and where. I don't see the big innovation with so called "custom" pc's...
I haven't read the article, but that's how it works here in the Netherlands: you order the color, the engine, the interior color, airco yes/no, RPM meter, etc, etc. That's sounds like more choice than with Dell.
If I recall correctly, GM has already had designs in the works for an electric car that would be built on top of a "skateboard", basically a car base with batteries and electronics all built in. You could pop any shell/interior top onto that base. The idea was that you spent the big bucks on the base, and then spend your fashion dollars on a new top from year to year. In fact, an aftermarket was envisioned for custom, made to order, modularized, pop-together tops for the base.
*** *** You're just jealous 'cause the voices talk to me... ***
This is a great development for the auto industry. Considering the number of features that an automobile has, it is impossible to satisfy every customer. I'm only suprised this took so long in the coming.
You can take all the best car parts in the world and put them together and the car probably won't even run. This article even admits that, and says they are developing systems to make the parts communicate and work together. Think about what this means. Car 1 is a normal car with normal parts the break down at a normal rate. Car 2 is a car with the best of each type of part that breaks down slightly less often than the parts of car 1, only for the parts of car 2 you need an extra widget for each of the parts to make the parts communicate.
Now even if you have the most high end parts on the market that never break, you still have 50% more parts total to make them work together. That means that each part has to work 66% better and last 66% longer just to break even. Plus imagine how heavy and awkward the car will be with all these extra widgets. This is just another scam to part fools from their money, it makes absolutely no sense from an engineering point of view. Sure you get pretty platinum coated spark plugs, but will they fit in the engine block!
I hope they are backed by a large political party, or organized crime. Else the big3 will have them summarily executed.
Havent we been here before? I think this is how all car companies start out. The world is too corrupt or im a big fat cynic.
They quoted 'several' cars per model.. sounds like you get a base model and can customize the options.. like at a 'real' dealer.
But the 'options' are much greater then traditional factories.. so its not a bad idea..
Though it *sounds* like another local custom speed shop to me....
Like to see some of its 'products'.. ( and fewer ads. my god, how many ads can you shove on a page? its getting really silly.. oh and i refused to read even ONE of the ads out of frustration.. in case any marketing types are reading )
---- Booth was a patriot ----
The title of the article is "Dude, you're gettin' a car". To which I reply : "Dude, where's my Dell??"
Some automaker sites have a "build my car" page where you pick what you want, then they do an inventory search and list some that are close as possible to what you want.
If you go to a dealer and ask to have a special order, they get pretty upset. I guess this is understandable since they really want to move the inventory off their lot instead.
But seriously, it's the inventory sitting around that's the big money drainer on a business like this. If they can radically reduce inventory and also reduce the time from manufacture to customer, it means less inventory carrying expense and happier customers.
Ah BTO, Canada's answer to ELO! Their greatest hit was TCB. /simpsons
Jeremy
"The preconceived notion is that the network will run Unix, but I came to the view that this is a unique opportunity, so why take something that's decades old?" says Lele.
By that logic, the concept of a internal combustion engine is over 100 years old, and seats are thousands of years old. Maybe he shouldn't use those either.
I purchased a new car about a year ago and was dismayed by the way the option packages worked at the dealers.
As a somewhat practical person, I had no interest in wings or crazy wheels or chrome door handles. However, when it came to features I did want, I couldn't understand why the big engine isn't available with a stick shift, or why ABS can't be obtained with a sun roof, or why fog lights can't be purchased with an upgraded stereo model, etc.
Above all else, desiring a manual transmission turned me into an instant showroom pariah, as if I had the plague. "I don't know if they even make that model with a stick shift," said one salesman. I understand that manual transmission cars are purchased with greatly reduced frequency compared to automatics, but why bother selling stick shift cars if you make no effort to allow customers to buy them?
Build-To-Order cars could be the next big thing for informed and frustrated car shoppers, but I have a great deal of apprehension towards the quality of the vehicle and the likelihood I could get it serviced at my local mechanic.
Eric
"The preconceived notion is that the network will run Unix, but I came to the view that this is a unique opportunity, so why take something that's decades old?"
.NET.
Saying that something that's "decades old" won't fit your new business model simply because of its age seems like a short-sighted way to base a decision. Building an IT infrastructure is not only about fitting your needs, but also about one that will serve you reliably. In the end it doesn't matter what the network runs on, but rather that it works, whether it's Unix, Linux, or
Just sounds to me like these cars won't have rubber tires simply because they've been in use on automobiles for a century.
build to order cars were fairly common. you'd go into the showroom, choose the options you wanted and then wait 2 months.
you could mix and match interiors fabrics with exterior paints. you could choose from different size engines, different size wheels, etc.
doesn't sound too revolutionary.
They build you a car. It is highly customizable. You can choose things like Ralph Lauren seats, pretty much any radio on the market, , etc. There will also be multiple vendors for the same parts. So maybe Tommy Hilfiger seats too, or something along those lines. And you will purchase, configure, and finance the car online. So as others have said, this is NOT the Dell of automakers. This is the white-box PC store of automakers.
Linux: The world's best text-adventure game.
I think that's a little unfair: see for example
In fact, I think it kinda makes you wonder what you would want to use .Net for. There are applications where half a dozen other solutions exist already, and there are ones like this which are just too scary to think about. Who is going to insure a car built this way?!
In fact, even the Gates example of printing to your local copy shop like you currently print to a local printer gives me the heebie geebies. I have enough trouble getting customers to take responsibility for pressing the print button when the paper comes out of a noisy printer in the corner of the room. Imagine the fun when it is in another block, and .Net is debiting the company credit card for you. "But I thought I had selected the local printer, and it didn't come out, so I just kept clicking, and now you say you can't pay my salary..."
Virtually serving coffee
All Mini Cooper models are built to order. I toured the production plant in Oxford England recently. 100% just-in-time manufacturing process. You'll have a blue British spec followed by a yellow North American spec followed by another color Japanese spec, etc. Of the hundreds of cars in the plant at the time NONE of them were exactly the same as mine and probably not as each other.
Now, if this guy has the same 280 Million British Pounds to invest in building a plant (as was done by BMW group for the Mini), more power to him. I doubt he realizes what he's really getting into. Probably trying to build hype in the media to attract the investors he needs for such a project.
Do really dense people warp space more than others?
I'm so sick of car makers picking the most idiodic interior/exterior color combinations. Beige leather, ick! Why is that so often matched with the blue exterior I want? Why can you only get black leather when you get a boring black exterior?
Also burlwood. I f'ing hate burlwood. Yet almost every top of the line vehicle (Acura, Lexus, etc) slathers it over every surface. Why do the cheapeast Honda Civic have metal or carbon-fiber interior options yet no options on the high end?
When I bought my car, I actually told my dealer I wouldn't mind waiting a month if I could get a specific combination right from the factory. I was even willing to pay transportation. I was told it was impossible. It's no more work for the factory to put one color in place of another, so I'm glad someone finally realized this and is offering the option.
- JoeShmoe
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-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
http://www.btoauto.com/
It would have been nice to see exactly what the article was talking about, by linking to it in the summary...you know, because this is slashdot.
Mordor...a magical, mythical land where women are more rare than dragons--but where every man would rather find a dragon
The article doesn't address whether tall people like me will be able to spec the custom cars such that we will be able to fit in 'em. I've sat in every car at auto shows and found little satisfaction, even in super-expensive models like BMWs. With great difficulty, I can buy shoes -- not true of cars. I would love to be able to buy a car that fits me.
Won't get far, unless this guy can get his passed...
http://www.smartcar.com/
Such a foolish waste of resources _not_ to let these things go ahead...
"Eustace? Eustace? Are you there? Are you there?" = John Leeming
http://www.btoauto.com/index.html
But if he's really going to try to do something new in the industry, as well a greatly increase the ability to build cards to "spec", I would suggest he seriously consider rethinking the way that car electronics mount and interconnect. I think it's insane the way dashboards are built today, and I'm not crazy about how hard it is to change a radio or install something extra like my ham radio. What the industry really needs is someone not trying hard to lock the customer in, but rather making things much more modular so the customer has the greatest number of choices. I would love to see a system where the instrument pannel, radio, gps/map, and any other electronics (including the computer) are all standaridized "rack" units networked and powered together, such that any device can be located anywhere in the system. If I want a bigger spedometer and tack, I should just be able to plug it into a couple of rack unit spaces. If I want my moving map right in the middle of my dash I just move the speedometer over (or maybe replace it with one integrated into the oil pressure / alternator / warning lights/ trip computer display) and put the video module where the speedometer was. If I get a ham radio made for this technology it should fit into an available bay and cleanly integrate with the rest of the car audio, letting me hear it through the speakers and optionally muting the CD player when there is radio traffic.
Eventually I would see this leading to "soft" displays, where you can use a pannel for whatever you want, speedometer, tach, warning lights, trip computer, or any new feature you program into a flexiable computer. True button switch pannels could be used, or touch screens that reconfigure themselves as needed, depending on the user's preference. Users could even elect, if they wished, to replace a digital speedometer with a white analog needle module (with appropriate electronics in the module) if they prefer that style of instrument over digital displays.
Sure, major players are not doing this now because they want to lock you into their stuff. But a modular system should give a truly flexiable design, lower overall costs, and much great utility. If someone is going to claim to want to make build to order cars, them this approach should be a must.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
The first thing that strikes me is that the choice in web services was depicted as a choice between Linux and .Net. Of course its really J2EE/Linux vrs. .Net (Mono excluded, but at this stage in its development I really doubt they're looking to use Mono).
Nitpicking from a java advocate aside, I see some tremendous complexity in the IT system and they can't do it with current technology. If they succeed they'll be doing something new and exciting.
The problem is with change management of data formats. If you've got all of these different formats of data (the article mentioned: Web services, EDI, email, and fax!). It's extremely difficult to even build a model thats going to allow communication between systems talking in such different ways. The real problem, though, is when you do design that extremely complex system, because of the way the proposed company is being set up, is that you have no way to maintain the consistency of all of the involved data formats.
Here is an example. Supplier A sends its information to the company with a flat file. Its product number is in a five digit field. Supplier A changes it to a six digit field. Hilarity ensues. (fark)
No control of the suppliers systems = a very complex system. The standard responses to managing this complexity (usually amounting to stick the data in a self referential data format like xml) does not work here because they can't demand that their suppliers adhere to any particular format (according to the article).
Anyway sounds like a cool idea, I'd like to see how they're going to pull off the system to make it a reality.
I know that all large European car makers are doing this already. My VW Golf that I bought last year was custom made, as are most VW's that you buy. You have 4 basic trims (Base, Comfortline, Highline and Trendline) and you can add options, features, colors (inside and outside), fabrics, ... like you wish. These trim levels are even not decided by VW, but by the importer in each country. A Base model in Belgium does not have traction control, in Germany that is standard on all Golf's.
Only very few cars of the VW/Audi group are built by order of the factory, and most of these company ordered cars end up in the showroom to give the public a general idea of what is available. Often you get even a discount on those models because they are not 100% configured to your own wishes....
Volkswagen has a "car configurator" on their website that can make thousands of possible Golf configurations.
Do you really mean you cannot order your own car in the USA? I'm stunned... I thought buying stock cars was almost impossible these days...
But they've already got case mods and overclocking for cars. And if you count the tuning boards, adding a chip to a car for faster performance is already available, and those chips usually have a tiny amount of RAM. So really, the car market and the computer market are already quite similar.
Marxism is the opiate of dumbasses
When am I gonna be able to purchase a Canyonero?
Can you name the truck with four wheel drive, smells like a steak, and seats thirty five?
Canyonero! Canyonero!
Well, it goes real slow with the hammer down, it's the country-fried truck endorsed by a clown
Canyonero! Canyonero!
Hey, hey!
Twelve yards long, two lanes wide, sixty five tons of American pride!
Canyonero! Canyonero!
Top of the line in utility sports, unexplained fires are a matter for the courts!
Canyonero! Canyonero!
She blinds everybody with her super high beams, she's a squirrel-squashin', deer-smackin' drivin' machine
Canyonero! Canyonero! Canyonero!
Whoa, Canyonero! Whoa!
Maybe a new US car company isn't as absurd as it sounds. If you look at Ford/GM/Chrysler's problems, one of the biggest burdens they have is their pension systems. From a cold blooded capitalist perspective, it makes sense to just let them die and start from scratch with a young workforce and no pension burden.
I'm not saying that's a good thing. Quite the contrary, it's another example of how inherently immoral capitalism is. I'm just suggesting that it gives an up and comer a bit of credibility.
Tired of looking at the same 8000 identical models of silver nissan ultimas, followed by red ford taurus.
No wonder truck drivers fall asleep. It's like counting sheeps.
Acutally, very few people perform automotive mods themselves these days. At the track I go to, I'd say 85% of cars are modded the same way by the same hadful of sport dealers. Of course, it's the other 15% that tend to burn them, but most people like the idea of spending a little extra to get it done RIGHT. After all, who wants to drop $5900 on a turbo mod, get halfway through it, and torch the engine? Better to make AAA Autospyd or XXX-trem Grafick Kreations do the work, and take the liability.
Plus, some of these assholes are modding LEASED CARS. You don't want to break your car, that's true, but you SURE AS SHIT don't want to break the bank's car.
Hey freaks: now you're ju
I believe that the idea could be profitable, if they take the viewpoint of Dell. Dell has an assembly line, as will BTO:
"the assembly line--which resembles a street intersection."
Basically what I in-vision them doing is a process similar to dell. Basically as the car comes down the assembly line, each person has his or her own station (Frame, axle, drive train, engine, etc). Each car would have it's own "Identifier" number as it came down and at each point in the assembly process, the specific part would be put in. Traditionally, car manufacturers assembly lines have a person doing each job, putting in the same part, etc. This would simply differ, not completely change, from tradition. Instead of putting 10,000 CD Players in, and 5,000 Cassette players in, it would be a specific CD Player, or whichever way you want to look at it.
I think the thing that will make or break this company is the organization. If they can organize and get the processes correct they will succeed. For example, let's say you have 10 cars coming down the assembly line. You're in charge of stereos, you have all 10 stereos, in the order that the cars are coming down the line in. This is just a small example of one way of organizing the manufacturing process that needs to not only take place on the assembly line, but in the background to make sure that everyone has what they need, when they need it. The process and organization will be what makes or breaks this company.
If you had to crash test every conceivable variation of seat/engine/body panel/dashboard the costs would be prohibitive. If you didn't safety test each combination, no-one would buy them & no insurer would insure them.
Also, the Dell comparison is silly; cars are an order of magnitude more complicated than PC's.
There are downsides to this business model however. Dell do not have sufficient production capacity to meet peak demand. Say you order a computer today and they tell you it will be shipped in two days. But then right after you place your order, a Fortune 500 customer puts in an order for 1000 new desktop machines. Guess who gets priority? That's right - you get bumped and end up waiting a couple of weeks or more, and get pissed off at them.
Cars don't have the depreciation problem. A new car will pretty much hold its value while it sits on the lot. The exception is the time around summer when the new model-years come out. That's predictable though, and the industry knows how to handle it.
My last two Boxster's were built to order to my specifications. Waiting 3+ months for your car to arrive is a bitch, but the anticipation can be fun.
There are literally hundreds of options/choices that you can pick. I really like the idea of everything being "a la carte" so you don't end up paying for features that you don't care about. I also like the idea of knowing that my car is +/- unique (or at least relatively unique)...
Evolution: love it or leave it
Have you ever looked under the hood of your Chevy? Chances are that it is running a Mitsubishi engine!
Actually, it's more likely it would be a Saab, Opel, Holden, Vauxhall, Fiat, Subaru, Isuzu, or Suzuki power plant, since those are foreign companies in which GM owns a controlling share and commonly shares parts with. You'd likely find Mitsubishi power plants in Chrysler cars, and Mazda engines in Ford products, but I digress.
I'm not saying that certain engines can't be dropped into certain cars with little or no modification. I'm also not saying that you won't find domestic cars with foreign engines or foreign cars with domestic engines. What I am saying is that you can't just take any old engine and just drop it into any old car and expect it to work with little modification. You can't even always do that when you stick to cars in the same product line. You can't put the wonderful Mazda MX-6 (Ford Probe) V-6 powerplant into a Mazda Miata. Sure, it'll fit. You can even overcome the fact that the MX-6 is a front wheel drive car, and the Miata is rear wheel drive. What you can't overcome is the fact that the engine was tilted to the rear in the original application for hood clearance. When you stand it up straight for rear wheel drive, you have problems with oil flow through the engine, and the engine burns up.
You can also cram a Corvette V-8 into your RX-7 or your Miata, but no one's gotten the latter to actually run yet, and judging from past motor swaps I've seen, they are very rarely as trouble free as the original motor. Not that the motor itself is to blame, but modern engines have a lot of inputs provided to them by various electronic and mechanical bits inside the car, all of which you must find a way to interface (it's not a common interface, remember), and then you have to somehow match everything up to the driveline, fuel systems, etc. Very rarely is an engine conversion a 'bolt-on' operation, and even then, it's usually because the two engines share a common chassis somewhere in the original manufacturer's catalog.
The motorhome industry has been operating like this for years, you chose the interior, the engine, instrumentation, accessories, placement of the windows, type of chairs etc. At the end of the process you have D.O.T. approved vehicle on the road. Of course, you pay for the custom options.
Yes, they do, and have you checked into how much a motorhome costs? Granted, they are big, but they are very expensive because a lot of stuff is custom fabricated and custom ordered. They also don't deal in the bulk that most car manufacturers do, which enables them to take more time with each vehicle. You also don't get a huge range of choices, in the lower lines, you may only get one(!) floorplan and one engine choice. Even in the upper lines, you may only get five choices of floorplans and five engine choices, and your engine choices are usually those offered in whatever vehicle the original chassis came from. You don't just get to pick any engine. I've seen full sized pickups with more options.
A far better comparison would have been a Maybach or a Rolls-Royce. They do plenty of personalization, allowing you to pick any color your want and any wood and fabric you want -- even if they don't have it. They'll even modify the car within reason. They also cost a ton of money, and a big part of that is the custom service you're getting. However, it's a bit like comparing apples and oranges. These BTO cars are meant to compete at low prices. Maybach can charge pretty much whatever it wants.
You need to hang out at the local performance shop. Cars, trucks, and cycles were hacked long before the first Univac.
Do you mean the local rice boy shop, or do you mean a shop where they do serious work? I'm not going to claim I hang out with Jesse James or anything, but I know my way around a
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They were optional from some manufacturers as far back as the mid-70s or so. There's a timeline here that says the first airbag-equipped car to roll off a production line was a '73 Oldsmobile Toronado (with dual airbags, no less). They were available in certain models from Olds, Buick, and Cadillac until 1977...in the years they were available, only about 10000 cars were ordered with airbags. It's true that they didn't become common until the early '90s (and I'd just as soon have the choice to buy a vehicle without them), but they were available farther back than most people would guess.
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.