New Doom III Preview Illuminates

Thanks to EuroGamer for their new preview of id's Doom III from an Activision press event in the UK, where id lead designer Tim Willits and CEO Todd Hollenshead were demonstrating the latest build of the long-awaited FPS sequel. Hollenshead confirmed of the game: "We have no plans to release it this year", a new "physics patch" was shown (the writer suggests "the physics implementation seems to be quite young, suggesting it was 'bolted on' after the capabilities of the Source engine became apparent"), and the writer argues that "...for all Valve's fancy physics and cunning AI, the eye candy in Doom III is still a cut above." Update: 08/14 15:39 GMT by S : In a related story, HomeLanFed have initial impressions of the multiplayer Doom III modes, currently being demonstrated at QuakeCon in Dallas.

Comments

not really the argument you should use

[sweeney37]

"...for all Valve's fancy physics and cunning AI, the eye candy in Doom III is still a cut above."

Yeah! Who needs real life physics and amazing AI when I can have amazing graphics!

I'm looking forward to both games, but as we all know great graphics doesn't make a great game. Good story and good AI are what makes a good game a great one.

What's the story behind Doom? Oh, demons on Mars, ....again?

Mike

Re:not really the argument you should use

[Zathrus]

I'm much more interested in HL2 than D3 right now, which is a complete reversal from before E3, but some of the things shown in D3 demos still intrigue me.

IIRC, every single FPS to date has had strictly oriented players and monsters -- yes, you can go above someone if the map allows you, but you are still oriented in the same direction -- head toward sky, feet on ground. Some of the D3 footage has shown monsters crawling along walls, pipes, etc -- but it's not clear if this is actual gameplay or merely cut scenes. If it's gameplay it would add a whole new dimension to the game -- not as much as Quake did with it's true 3D environment, but still quite substantial.

I do expect HL2 to have the better AI and plot regardless, and to probably be the better game. Which one is the better engine will remain to be seen.

Re:not really the argument you should use

[TheOnlyCoolTim]

Play Natural Selection for Half-Life - the basic alien has the ability to crawl on walls and ceilings.

Tim

Re:not really the argument you should use

[BMonger]

So the car doesn't so much have a "steering wheel" or an "engine"... but isn't the outside pretty!?

Re:not really the argument you should use

[fredrikj]

I'm looking forward to both games, but as we all know great graphics doesn't make a great game.

One word: immersion. Graphics do help a big deal in the case of a game like this.

Re:not really the argument you should use

[Godeke]

Hate to "me too" on this, but I have to. I enjoy ID's games, but they couldn't write a story and stick to it if someone strapped John into his rocket this morning and threatened to launch it unless his next game come with a plot less contrived than an A-Team reunion.

Half Life 2 *could* drop the ball, but I haven't seen any signs so far that they have. I look forward to the work of the guys who made the marine AI of grenade flushing, constantly mobile, devious death.

Re:not really the argument you should use

[PainKilleR-CE]

or even the first Aliens vs. Predator. Play as the Alien species to see the effect right off, by climbing up the walls and onto the ceiling.

Re:not really the argument you should use

[Lord_Dweomer]

"IIRC, every single FPS to date has had strictly oriented players and monsters -- yes, you can go above someone if the map allows you, but you are still oriented in the same direction -- head toward sky, feet on ground."

You've never played any of the Aliens vs. Predator games have you? The whole point of the aliens is that they can crawl pretty much anywhere. You can run up a wall, and wait for someone by clinging to the underside of a bridge and then drop on them. This is fairly old in terms of gameplay features.

Re:not really the argument you should use

[gabe]

I'd do that, but no servers ever show up ... *shrug*

Re:not really the argument you should use

[Typhon100]

Don't forget Descent! ...Though you might call that a flight game...I still think of it as as first person shooter...

Re:not really the argument you should use

[syle]

You might have a point if it's cheif competitor had bad graphics, or lack of immersion. However, anyone who's seen HL2's demo movies can tell you that's not the case. In fact, I'd argue that 10% better graphics is actually LESS immersive than realistic physics, and good AI.

I was one of those people who played HL1 on hard mode, and was scared shitless when I first realized how smart the marines were when they showed up. I didn't care for one second about the number of polygons they had, all I cared about was that there was a squad of marines 3 yards away, they were working as a team to kill me, and I had to think of something fast.

No scary monster who runs straight at you, no matter how well rendered, can make that kind of immersion.

Re:not really the argument you should use

[ziggles]

People put too much emphasis on story in games. There is no formula for what makes a great game. Some games are great because of the way they tell a story, some games are great because of the gameplay, some games are great because of the atmosphere, etc. Just because HL1 was a great game and told a decent story, doesn't mean every game that wants to be great should copy that.

Re:not really the argument you should use

[Glonoinha]

Seven out of eight old school gamers agree with you. The other guy remembers Descent as a guaranteed prayer session, screaming a technicolor prayer at the porcelain altar.

Personally I loved it, wish it played over TCP/IP on current hardware - but we always had one guy that would spend about 4 minutes playing before just coming unglued at the gullet.

Re:not really the argument you should use

[Glonoinha]

There are a few gaming moments I will always remember.

The original Doom (second level, just past the first locked door, to the left) when walking around in the dark computer room and an imp was waiting for me around a corner, bumped into him in the dark and the light flickered so I could see him face to face (same general area as the chainsaw, IIRC.)

Half Life - get out of the elevator into the gated room to see the Marines roping down from the Osprey, wondering how I was going to get out of that one (with my newly found MP5)

Quake II - the intro script and then realizing you are all alone.

Unreal - bah, several - the experience when you first see the door close and the guy behind it gets shredded and you catch a glimpse of the bad guy running away (scared the crap out of me), the feeling of joy when walking around just outside the ship in that oasis of goodness, the first time you see the Rancor and he just shruggs off multiple direct missle hits, those ooly-gooly fellows with 4 arms - the feeling of happiness I got when he hooked me up with some cool toys, and the feeling that I had somehow let him down when he got whacked.

Those are some of the things you just don't get out of a massive death match.

What the hey...

[Lurch Kimded]

My view is this you need the Quakes, the Doom's and the Serious Sam's for that fun, "I'm bored and want five minutes of pick up and put down gaming" moments.

But also we need the Half Life's, DuesEx's and Thiefs for the long term evening of game play for the more in depth and absorbing game play.

Each (Doom3, Half life 2) each have their place, and each will be mine... HUZZAH!... ...after I get the 300 together for a new grpahic card ;-)

Re:What the hey...

[Have Blue]

The point of the article is that Doom III is *trying* to compete with Half-Life 2. It's not just a dumb shooter anymore, it's full of scripted events and sidekicks and so on. However, whether it can actually surpass HL2 in these areas is very much in doubt, and the changes tend to make it not as good a dumb shooter.

Re:What the hey...

[Typhon100]

key words: scripted events. Doom3 is full of them. HL2 doesn't have scripted events per se, most of the cool stuff you see is actually the AI interacting with the environment.

Re:What the hey...

[e2mtt]

I think you will have a lot of pre-scripted events, thats what moves the story along. The difference will be that the the EVENT is scripted, and the AI will react and creat the event. It won't just be a cutscene type event where the same thing happens wether you stand and watch, or fire a rocket into the works, but rather the story event will happen, and you and the AI & NPCs will dynamically react.
Sounds Awesome. I can't wait.

There they go again....

[saden1]

for all Valve's fancy physics and cunning AI, the eye candy in Doom III is still a cut above.

Valve has a ship date and they don't. I suggest they STFU and let the people decide. As always, the publisher is at it again, hyping a game that won't show up on the radar for many months.

Re:There they go again....

[PainKilleR-CE]

That quote is from the writer of the article, not the publisher or developer. Additionally, while it was a publisher-held event, it was still id's people showing off the game.

It's good to see that Valve may have made id realize that physics are important, I just hope that id can put together a physics engine that is worth the delay, instead of just some rushed-together pos that we would've been better off without.

Re:There they go again....

[WTFmonkey]

I suggest you look into some reading comprehension skills, they might help keep your foot out of your mouth more often.

Re:There they go again....

[Electrum]

It's good to see that Valve may have made id realize that physics are important, I just hope that id can put together a physics engine that is worth the delay, instead of just some rushed-together pos that we would've been better off without.

This is John Carmack we're talking about here.

Re:There they go again....

[PainKilleR-CE]

I'm quite aware of Carmack's sometimes staggering ability to pull complex formulas seemingly out of his head and translate them well into video games. The difference is that a physics engine (just like a graphics engine) takes time to tweak so that it not only feels right in terms of gameplay, but also looks right (in terms of how other things are effected in the game). id game engines are well-known for allowing rather odd exploits of their physics, not to mention having heavily framerate-based physics in the first place (ie having to have a certain minimum framerate far above normal to rocket-jump a certain height).

Of course, all of this assumes that he's adding in a completely new physics engine when the game is almost done, as opposed to just final tweaking and maybe some minor additions to make sure it's up to the state of other games, which has been implied by some posters in this thread.

Re:There they go again....

[Electrum]

id game engines are well-known for allowing rather odd exploits of their physics, not to mention having heavily framerate-based physics in the first place (ie having to have a certain minimum framerate far above normal to rocket-jump a certain height).

The rocket jumping problem is due to rounding errors. Such an issue is hard to correct without using a lot more CPU time. With computers being much faster now, I'm sure we'll see better physics.

Of course, all of this assumes that he's adding in a completely new physics engine when the game is almost done, as opposed to just final tweaking and maybe some minor additions to make sure it's up to the state of other games

Carmack also has the amazing ability to rewrite a large amount of code in a short amount of time. The original Doom was rewritten at least four times during development. The original Quake went through many revisions before Carmack figured out the optimal way to represent the world. Carmack initially added dynamic lighting to Quake in a little over an hour. He is one of the best programmers in the world. Don't sell him short.

See ``Michael Abrash's Graphics Programming Black Book'' for more interesting stuff about id Software.

New Doom III Preview Illuminates??

[Dr. Bent]

Illuminates nothing! I can't see anything but dark in those screenshots. Turn up the gamma, guys!

Re:New Doom III Preview Illuminates??

[Anonymous Coward]

We know about this. You see, in the transition from Gamma Control Full-Speed to Gamma Control Hi-Speed, there was some confusion among graphics manufacturers. Some only partially support Hi-Speed, which would allow us to use Full-Speed, but Full-Speed isn't as Hi-Speed as we would like, so we fall back on a Hi-Speed/Full-Speed hybrid model. We're working with graphics manufacturers to resolve this issue.

-- JC

Re:Story makes Half Life 2 a cut above Doom 3

[Creepy Crawler]

Quake Kicks ass. The reason is there's Sooo many mods out there, and Quake is easy on your GFX card.

Damn near anybody can play it fast.

So dark....

[AtariAmarok]

Getting a little tired of games like this in which just about everything is either gray, black, or brown with brightness ranging from dark to very dark. (and for that matter, shows like "Enterprise" that look similar).

We've come along way from "Yar's Revenge", but at least those games had a decent contrast and visibility that seems to have been lost along the way.

Did someone forget to pay the electric bill?

Re:So dark....

[Anonymous Coward]

We need

DOOM XP

This whole saga has been interesting ...

[Anonymous Coward]

First, I'm glad to hear someone recognize that Doom III and HL will both have their place. However, I'd like to note that there are benefits of Doom III beyond being a quickie of sorts. Although graphics do not make a great game, improvements in graphics are always welcome, and I'm glad to see Id pushing the envelope, once again, with graphics. Someone needs to do it. There is always a need for better graphics.

And who knows? Maybe Doom III have more of a storyline than we think.

This whole saga of Doom III versus HL is fascinating to me. First everyone was drooling over Doom III, then over HL, and sometime since then there has been this reversal of opinion among some that HL is the game to look forward to, not Doom III.

The author of the article suggests that the delay in Doom III is due to the HL release--e.g., that the physics patch was added on in response to HL. I've never heard of this before. Does anyone who follows Doom III discussions know if this is the case? It seems reasonable, but also a bit silly in some ways. For example, the author admits that, even given the physics and AI in HL, the graphics are better in Doom III--so why would Id feel threatened? To be honest, that's the way I've always sort of seen it developing--Id develops awesome graphics, Valve does awesome AI. For this reason, there's a part of me that finds the idea of Id being threatened by HL a bit strange, if realistic nonetheless.

Finally--although this is more or less offtopic--I have to say that the game I'm looking forward to the most isn't Doom III or HL--it's the next Deus Ex. The gameplay in Deus Ex is far beyond either in my opinion, even if it doesn't have the graphics or AI.

Re:This whole saga has been interesting ...

[PainKilleR-CE]

The author of the article suggests that the delay in Doom III is due to the HL release--e.g., that the physics patch was added on in response to HL. I've never heard of this before. Does anyone who follows Doom III discussions know if this is the case? It seems reasonable, but also a bit silly in some ways.

For all of the things we have heard out of id about Doom 3, we never (afaik) heard anything about a new physics engine in the game, or any plans to move forward in physics from where id's previous games were.

For example, the author admits that, even given the physics and AI in HL, the graphics are better in Doom III--so why would Id feel threatened? To be honest, that's the way I've always sort of seen it developing--Id develops awesome graphics, Valve does awesome AI. For this reason, there's a part of me that finds the idea of Id being threatened by HL a bit strange, if realistic nonetheless.

There are a couple of things at play here. One is that Valve actually wrote this engine themselves. Before, companies (including Valve) took id's engine and improved the AI, graphics, maybe even physics, and that's all fine, because they still payed id (the exception being those that used Unreal or LithTech engines). Now you see people like Ion Storm ripping out the physics engines in their licensed graphics engines and inserting the physics engine that Valve is using (which is licensed from another company), and I'm sure Valve has a deal that allows them to sublicense the physics with the rest of their engine (so, for instance, the new Vampire game would be able to use the physics engine without buying that second license because they would get the license from Valve).

In other words, if companies are ripping the physics out of engines already to license this technology, they would be doing the same with id's engine, unless id had a comparable (or better) physics engine. If Valve's license is cheaper than id's and includes the physics they want, then it's quite possible a number of developers would take the graphics hit or enhance the graphics engine themselves (look at how many id licenses change the graphics engine, not a large percentage of them, but still a good number of the licensed games). I think id sees this as a requirement, both in terms of the game, and in terms of the licensing prospects of the engine.

Re:This whole saga has been interesting ...

[Anonymous Coward]

You are wrong. I remember reading John Carmack talk about the ragdoll physics in the Doom 3 engine a long time ago.

Re:This whole saga has been interesting ...

[CheeseMonkey]

One is that Valve actually wrote this engine themselves

I thought they were using a modified version of the Havok engine?

Re:This whole saga has been interesting ...

[PainKilleR-CE]

Sorry, I should've been more specific. The graphics engine is what Valve wrote themselves. They didn't license any id technology for this game, unlike the original Half-life, which although heavily modified still used Quake code.

Halflife jealousy?

[evilhayama]

This article makes it seem like Id is trying to make Doom 3 into a "Better Halflife". Doom 3 was very similar to HL1 in premise to start with, and now this Physics Patch seems to be a direct response to the amazing physics stuff in HL2.

It seems pretty lame that they're adding this sort of thing now, at the end of the development cycle where it probably can't be integrated into the game properly. Id should let their game stand on it's own as a separate entity.

Re:Halflife jealousy?

[Tyreth]

I'm really disappointed. I was hoping Doom 3 would have accounted for these things early. Since HL2 is not going to be for Linux, I was depending on D3.

Now to hear that they're adding it on as a response to Valve feels messy and very disappointing. I wish Valve would develop for Linux.

Re:Halflife jealousy?

[fredrikj]

It seems pretty lame that they're adding this sort of thing now, at the end of the development cycle where it probably can't be integrated into the game properly.

A working physics engine was implemented already in the year-old alpha.

I think the guy who wrote the article is exaggerating matters - probably, id are pimping these features to confirm that they're there, not because it's the most recent addition.

Re:Halflife jealousy?

[I(rispee_I(reme]

Doom 3 was very similar to HL1 in premise to start with
More like, "Half-Life's premise was basically Doom 1 in a science lab instead of space to start with."

Re:Halflife jealousy?

[k_187]

Doom 3 was very similar to HL1 in premise to start with

One could make the argument that Half-life was very similar to Doom 1 & 2. Scientists working on transportation technology accidently create rift in space-time allowing bad things to come through, one man must fight them to save the world. Granted the storytelling of Half-life was way beyond Doom, but the story they told was pretty similar.

Re:Halflife jealousy?

[Anonymous Coward]

Since HL2 is not going to be for Linux, I was depending on D3.

Then install a partition of Windows like the rest of us and stop bitching.

Re:Halflife jealousy?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think they have a choice after viewing the HL2 demo. ID's business thrives on licensing the engine but with Valve's engine on the market this might hurt that revenue (if not cut it).

oh no

[AzraelKans]

Damn! it looks like ID really freaked out after seing half life 2 completely stealing the E3 show this year. Doom 3 already has a nice physics engine (check the last e3 quicktime movie) it has ragdoll physics rigid bodies and even some fluid physics (for blood) but it doesnt "show off" as much as the one in half life 2, maybe thats what they have decided to change that. Actually I wouldnt mind at all if they released the game as it is now, and then release some expansions or mods that make heavier use of the physics or AI. Oh well, I guess is for the better, it doesnt look like half life 2 isnt shipping anytime soon neither. So Im going to miss those two by xmas, is just not going to be the same without them. Oh and dont consider this as flamebait or something but come on people, I mean yes, Doom 3 is about shooting monsters around in dark alleys, yes it has been done a 1000 times everybody and their sister has played that. It doesnt matter, Doom3 features the most realistic graphics and psychological horror effects ever seen. It may sound silly but in this particular case graphics DO make the difference (combined with good tempo and real time movies and sounds) they create a realistic ambience of fear and dread. I saw the E3 demo and it puts the entire silent hill series to shame. Actually this is the only game which has caused me to feel physically disgusted by the disturbing scenes (no I didnt got fps sickness). It is that realistic, truly horrifying, wait and see. So if you are not interested just because it plays exactly like good old doom guess what? it is doom! so no one cares ( at least no doom fan that is)

Who's Following Who?

[Gefd]

From where I sit (and play), ever since Quake 1, or perhaps back as far as doom 1,
everybody else has been playing catch-up with Id. Most of the time falling short by
a long shot. With a few notable exceptions.

After reading the article, it seems now that Id is playing a little catch up themselves.

Quote;

Tellingly, the physics implementation seems to be quite young, suggesting
it was 'bolted on' after the capabilities of the Source engine became apparent.

Admittedly this is the opinion of the author of the article, but interesting none the less.

Though from what I've seen, everyone else is still playing catchup on the graphic's front.
But when you sit back and have a look at whats in store for the (hopefully) not too
distant future, you can't help looking forward to finally sitting down and playing these
games.

Re:Who's Following Who?

[Typhon100]

A little competition is always healthy. I think Id still has the ability and the brainpower to make a revolutionary game, not just a better version of Doom. Hopefully ppl like Valve will push them to do that.

Re:Who's Following Who?

[AvitarX]

What about Unreal vs Quake II?

Didn't ID lose that one and release late?

Just what I read somewhere, I still had a 486 :(

Physics just getting added?

[delus10n0]

Huh? I'm confused. The alpha that was leaked months ago had physics in it, such as shooting the boxes near the start (they would fall to the floor and tumble) or shooting the lamp swinging in the hallway (it would flip around, throwing light and shadows everywhere)

Unless they're revamping the engine or something to compete with Havok's physics engine? (The one used in HL2)

I'm lost.

I still think Doom3 _and_ Half-Life 2 will be awesome games. Cinematic games are the future.

Re:Physics just getting added?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes and you can spawn a ragdoll zombie with a special command.. I've used the alpha alot, and so far i've yet to read anything new, besides the soulcube and fists.

But all you HL2 fanboys cluttering the conversation with reasons why doom 3 sucks, try to realise you are only trolling. NOTHING here, and I mean NOTHING, has NOT already been said about HL2 being better in blah blah aspect compared to doom.
Doom fanboys should not counter-attack these arguments with your own perspective, as this tends to fuel the argument/discussion further, so that more people are led off topic and so forth. And a note to Moderators, please DO NOT give mod points to posts that even compare doom with half life, no matter how fricken '+2 interesting' it is to you. We've had enough of this HL2 vs. DOOM crap on the 'net.

Scripted Physics

[_iris]

"With the physics 'patch' looking pretty recent, you have to wonder what Id plans to do with it. Integrating it into the gameplay now would be a mammoth task, surely?"

"But as a leading edge company, it most likely wanted to take the long term view and maintain its reputation as always being a front runner, so that three or four years down the line, publishers and developers still regarded it as the top middleware provider in the FPS genre (and potentially all manner of other genres for that matter)."

The first passage seems to disregard what the second passage hints at. Carmack (and I imagine the rest of iD) expects this new graphics engine to be applicable to any type of game. Without an equally superb physics engine, most companies won't be convinced to license the engine for games of many other genres.

Furthermore, most physics engines are extrememly tunable. For all any of us know, this "patch" could be as simple as changing about 30 constants (we all know what a fan Carmack is of global variables).

Re:Scripted Physics

[easychord]

Sorry for being pedantic, but Contsants are not variables. The opposite actually.

Just had to get that off my chest.

Re:Scripted Physics

[SuiteSisterMary]

Constants are variables. They're just not writable during runtime.

Re:Scripted Physics

[Curien]

Yes, but we're talking about different namespaces here. Physical constants, such as G, k, et cetera could be represented as variables in the code (or exposed as variables by the scripting engine).

In short, STFU and don't be so quick to tell people they're wrong.

Re:Scripted Physics

[Curien]

No, constants are *objects* (in C and C++ terminology), but they are not variables.

Re:Scripted Physics

[easychord]

Yes, but they can't be constants and variables at the same time.

You either set the value at design-time or run-time. Its a simple concept with clear performance/flexibility trade offs.

Using the words interchangably is slightly annoying. I said that I was being pedantic.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

wahoo

[Leroy_Brown242]

Mindless killing, with awesome graphics. I am excited to be able to fill my desire to digitally kill monsters in such greusome detail!

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

DOOMED To Fail?

[webzombie]

Listen, its been said in other posts and in many other discussions. DOOM, Quake, etc... are all been there done that games. Eye candy yes. New. DEFINITELY NOT.

HalfLife2 did steal the E3 show and I believe with be 10 times more successful then DOOM III or Quake 4. For reasons of game play, market share and overall replayability

Most players who cut their teeth on FPS like DOOM and Quake have moved on, grown up or just plain grown tired of the whole bob and weave experience!

DOOM III will also suffer if it doesn't ship with an online mode...that isn't DEATHMATCH which is getting so old it almost pre-dates the dinos!

Re:DOOMED To Fail?

[Anonymous Coward]

Doome is hardly dead. The game has lasted a good 10 years, and people still play it every day.

Some of you can argue all you want, but ID's game engines have been in coutless products. Unless Half-Life 2 gets multiplatform code (which it will not), then it's not very likely that it will be used in future products as DOOM3 will. Linux and MAC aren't considered to be mainstream gaming platforms now, but in a few years, you'll be seeing many more multipatform products. Direct3D is a stupid choice for todays games.

Re:Story makes Half Life 2 a cut above Doom 3

[fredrikj]

Who cares about simply shooting monsters anymore?

Why don't you just RTFA. The game isn't about simply shooting monsters.

To me it's all about immersiveness.

[2TecTom]

/I've heard all the trash talk about Id so many times. Seems to me that everybody just wants to defend the games they choose to play. Personally, I think it's simply great that there are so many games out there. Anyone who doesn't recognize that different games add to and enrich each other and our experiences, is, perhaps, not looking deeply enough into the matter. I would suggest that if people need to defend anything, it's because they don't believe it to be strong enough on it's own, or, perhaps, they aren't as self assured as they'd like to be./

Now, my point is that John Carmack and Id have created many hours of believable experiences for vast numbers of people. Furthermore, even if you've never played an Id game, ???!, the other games you've played owe something to the development of immersive, believable enviroments. The main influence on OpenGL was from Carmack, and the main influence on DirectX was OpenGL, at least as far as I can see.

Anyways, I'm looking forward to Doom 3 as I do to any Id game. Honestly, this isn't vapourware and I don't mind waiting for Id, as far as I'm concerned, they've earned the respect.

This game never gets old

[blah1019]

You wouldn't be playing this game if you didn't enjoy it. Haven't played in a while but looking forward to its release. It is NOT just about shooting monsters anymore.

Scarier than Silent Hill? I think not.

[danro]

I saw the E3 demo and it puts the entire silent hill series to shame.

Except that in Doom 3 you'll be a serious, gun-slinging badass.

In Silent Hill 2 on the other hand you start out unarmed, unskilled, and when you get your first weapon it's not a gun, not even a knife.
...it's a friggin' piece of wood.
When you _finally_ get a gun you find out you shoot like a little girl.
Oh yeah, and there's almost no bullets.

That game is some of the scariest shit I ever played, and I rue the day I bought it.
I still haven't gotten very far, mostly due to the fact that I can't play alone at night (seriously).
It's scary almost to the point of unplayable.

The worst part is I can't even sell it and get my money back because ...it's too good.
So the box just sits there on it's shelf and sort of stares at me.
Actually even that is kind of creepy.

Re:Scarier than Silent Hill? I think not.

[13Echo]

I played Silent Hill on the PSX and it was definately the scariest game I had ever played. We cranked up the stereo for the awesome sound effects, closed the curtains, and played for days until we finished. I probably couldn't bear to play it alone. It's just too insane. The ambient effects really make the game.

That said, after hearing that the latest two games in the series are even scarier, I can totally understand how you feel.

Re:Scarier than Silent Hill? I think not.

[SuiteSisterMary]

Go give Fatal Frame a try.

Re:Scarier than Silent Hill? I think not.

[AzraelKans]

If you had problems playing Silent Hill, you probably wont be able to play Doom 3 at all, imagine a vr device that can put you inside silent hill check things from the view of James Sunderland or Harry Mason meeting those demons eye to eye thats a slight idea of how scary Doom 3 is. It doesn't matter how buff you are or how many weapons you have, Doom has a little surprise for you... I dont want to ruin it (you can read the spoiler if you are feeling too curious) but believe me it really doesn't matter how much guns you have. those guys, the zombies and the rest of them, they never die... I smell fear!

iD software has a ship date.

[Inoshiro]

December 8th, 2003 for a price of 77.99$ Canadian.

One key fact

[Rethcir]

There's one key thing to consider here people, when it comes to the doom vs half life BS I see every time Doom3 is mentioned anywhere:

IT'S NOT A FRICKING CONTEST.

Sure both of these engine are going to be licensed or whatever, but there is NO REASON why you can't just get and enjoy them both. I don't see either of these companies' fortunes depending on out-selling the other one's product. Both of these games look like they will be a spectacular diversion from the total dreck we have seen on PC for the past year or two. If it wasn't for these two games (and FFXI and LO:MAC) on the horizon, I would not have built a game-oriented computer, and just further built up my console collection. So I say wait and see, the better game will be judged by gaming history, and we will all be happy whether we play one or both of these excellent looking titles.

Re:One key fact

[Anonymous Coward]

You, sir, are an idiot.

Re:One key fact

[AzraelKans]

I completely agree.

Re:One key fact

[MojoMonkey]

I thought Id and Valve were seperate companies. Seperate companies delivering products in the same consumer market. Companies with the goal of selling said product and making as much profit as possible. Which requires many consumers to make a choice, as they probably don't have much disposable income. Sounds like a contest to me.

Re:One key fact

[Tyreth]

It is a competition for one reason: there's no HL2 for Linux.

For me to play both requires installing windows, and I really don't want to do that.

Re:One key fact

[Rethcir]

I can definitely see the point where financial issues could force a choice. But it seems to me like the games are differentiating themselves pretty well in terms of story, engine, gameplay etc. so they are not really in direct competition (like, say, Q3 and UT).

Better Question that answers yours....

[Sevn]

How important is story to online multiplayer?

I like a good single player game. That's why I play RTCW or the original HL. But when I want to play online, I play Q3 or UT2K3. I'll play some CS sometimes until the first obvious cheater shows up. It's a shame that nobody seems to be doing anything to stop people from cheating in CS anymore. As long as Doom3 has the best multiplayer experience around, and I'm sure ID will pull it off yet again, I could care what the story is. That and you can be sure that HL2 won't have a Linux port, but there will definitely be one for Doom3. That matters to me.

Gawd

[Anonymous Coward]

fanboys suck. please grow up.

Doom III physics

[mnemonic_]

Doom III has had physics simulation for a very long time. A Gamespy interview from August 2002 states, "First, Tim showed the physics system by shooting some boxes off a shelf -- the boxes would react differently depending on where they were shot. Next, Tim shot the side of a lighting fixture, causing it to swing back and forth, and subsequently cast moving shadows on the zombie below." The 2002 E3 demo also showed ragdoll physics, as an enemy fell down the stairs you could see his limbs bending and moving realistically as they hit a siderail and then the steps.

The physics enhancements are in no way a response to the unveiling of Half-Life 2, which unlike Doom 3 does not use an in-house developed physics engine (Half-Life 2 and many other games use the Havok physics engine). They were in place and demonstrated to the public far before Half-Life 2 was ever shown.