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Looking For God In Videogames
Thanks to MSNBC.com for their article discussing the use of religion in videogames, both overtly Christian titles and those just addressing the subject indirectly. As the article comments, "Before 'god mode' or 'god games' there were 'God games' -- low budget, PC floppy disks that married evangelical Christian thought and scripture with simple game play. The boundaries between the holy and the secular were simpler then... Today, the lines have grown fuzzier." The piece also points to religious overtones in MMORPGs: "In EverQuest, the massive online multiplayer game, new players are asked to pick from among the religions native to the land of Norrath. One of Norrath's deities, 'The Nameless' has triggered talk on discussion boards over whether 'Nameless' could be understood as the Jewish Yahweh. Some [Christian] evangelists have even used EverQuest to proselytize to fellow players."
Please don't use it, "G-d" is a perfectly good word. That is not a good translitteration of the four letter name of G-d into english. We don't know how it was pronouced as the name was only said once a year by the Kohen Gadol (High priest) on Yom Kipor in Temple days. It should also be pointed out that there is no "W" sound in hebrew, nor is there a "J".
Erlang Developer and podcaster
There's a clear trend of online communites, especially MMORPGs, beginning to mimick regular society more and more closely. I see missionary work in virtual communities as a natural progression of this.
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OK, so I'm a mildly tolerant atheist (actually, I'm not. Tolerant, particularly, but we'll pretend), or maybe just not a christian, and hypothetically, I'm paying to be involved in an MMORPG.
Some jerk starts following me around blathering about his god and how I'm not going to his heaven and basically talking about his personal relationship with Jebus.
At what point do I have recourse in this? I'm going about my business, and PAYING to do so, and I don't want to hear it.
Can I complain to the operators of the service? Can I smite the moron for annoying me? Or is my only option to log off or leave because some dumbass is ruining my time online?
-- I wanna decide who lives and who dies - Crow T. Robot, MST3K
Moo
Let me play ActRaiser...
I really loved when people got into the temple to 'reproduce'.. hehehe...
I think God in video games is a completly ignored subject. There is so much subject matter that could be used for material. It's amazing in these days where most people complain about storylines in games that they don't just use stories from the Bible? After all there is a lot of stories in there that many people don't read. Such as the political actions of the kings of Israel and Judah are complex. And what about the prophesies and visions that are in the Bible. And talk about complex characters, WOW. I really think that if most people get past there own bias and unfortunatly sometimes hate they would really like the Bible even if they don't chose to beleive it and I think they would really be impressed by any game that you could make from the history in it. History based or fictional.
-Emperor Alikar who for some reason can't rember his password... *sigh*
Ive played Catechumen, and would like to report that it was the most horrible game of all time. Who wants to get a giant sword, only to zap people with it? I got stuck in one of the levels because i was surrounded by people newly 'converted'. Where's the fun in that.
...no offense to Mr. Loftus' article, but it is practically IMPOSSIBLE to mention religion and gaming without bringing up Xenogears (as well as Xenosaga), as well as a couple other notables. I understand that it wasn't exactly the point of the article, but he could've easily included religious (not necessarily Christian) influences on gaming (perhaps in part 2?).
i gi on_01.shtml
http://www.toastyfrog.com/features/features/rel
Most games which are supposed to provide Christian entertainment are neither equipped with a meaningful Christian message nor entertaining. (See my comment in a previous discussion.)
The last part seems like another instance of somebody finding an arcane way to state the obvious and meaningless, prepending the phrase "existential analysis" in front of their banter, and pretending that they have therefore stated something profound and rich with meaning. Kierkegaard et al must have turned in their graves at that. Overall, the writing of the article positively reeks of "I'm on deadline for my column and thus just spouting out the following crap; I hope it gets by our editor and that our readers find it either funny or profound." I mean, is "Will firing up the game console ever be considered a sacred act?" supposed to be funny? It's positively moronic.
IMHO It's too bad that the people in the few denominations of Christianity (or any other religion) that are obnoxious about spreading their views ruin it for everyone.
As a Christian myself, I have become more and more annoyed at the overly religious people who think everyone needs to think and believe the same as them. Not too long ago I was approached by someone at a mall who would not go away and was very persistant that I accept God right then and there. Talk about a turnoff! It's very dishearting knowing that normal people are being scared off by these obnoxious few who think it's their duty to approach every random person they see on the street and do the 5 minute conversion. I've always thought the best way to share beliefs is to actually develop a relationship with someone and having them first be actually interested in what you think. And even then, it's their own path to discover and follow.
By and large, the more popular denominations (Lutheran/even Catholic for the most part,etc..) interpret the bible more liberally, and are generally really tolerant. Authors like CS. Lewis express it best when he says through his writing you don't have to even believe in the same God to go to heaven.
It's the ambitious, power seeking, and issue-centered people (ie. religious right) and the denominations that think you have to have a long list of people you have converted that are the least tolerant. Those are the ones to watch out for. The ones that read and follow every word in the Bible literally but manage to ignore the thousands about compassion and tolerance. But by and large I think the majority of religious people are NOT like those few who try to impose their beliefs on everyone. Don't get disheartened about Christians in general... the 95% more realistic, normal day to day Christians are just being drowned out by the loud, obnoxious minority.
The sending of this message pretty much inconveniences everyone involved.
I assume your name in English is Joel. I don't remember what the hebrew spelling is. I can't look it up now as I am planning to move to Israel next week, so all of my books are packed and in storage until I can have them shipped over. However its one of those cases where you can transliterate the herbrew with or without the "W" and defend both as a reasonable thing to do. Both would be written the same way with hebre charecters.
Erlang Developer and podcaster
"Looking For God In Videogames" : in particular, I find myself drawn to Populous...
In Soviet America the banks rob you!
There's a discussion going on flipCode about Buddhist Concepts in games.
Refuse to make a statement in your sig!
Do spawn-campers, aimbot users and other smacktards go to Virtual Hell?
[sound of rocket launcher being readied]
Let's find out...
A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men... --Willy Wonka
"There have been too many games," said Bagley, "Where the devil always wins or is one of the strongest characters."
But surely if this guy is a Christian, he will have to admit that according to his religion, the devil is one of the strongest "characters"? I mean, he's possibly the second-strongest being in the universe, second only to the Big Guy in the Sky.
I have nothing but contempt for these pick-and-mix religious types.
(Although the thought of fighting for the soul of a "troubled teenager" kinda turns me on...)
Sentimentality is merely the Bank Holiday of cynicism.
- Oscar Wilde
> I mean, is "Will firing up the game console
> ever be considered a sacred act?" supposed to
> be funny? It's positively moronic.
Not necessarily. In many religions, perhaps most notably Zen Buddhism (which, incidentally, has no concept of a god) even the smallest everyday act becomes something sacred.
As a Christian, you are probably inclined to think of this life as a kind of dress rehearsal for the next. In other religions, including for example Chassidic Judaism, this life is where we find or (re-)constitute God.
Try taking off your blinkers and start recognizing the sacredness and uniqueness of every flower you smell, every dish you wash and every shambler you frag.
Sentimentality is merely the Bank Holiday of cynicism.
- Oscar Wilde
To create such a sim will require precise analysis of all the relevant psychological factors.
One of the trickiest is modeling self-knowledge-- perhaps the player's character could have its own impulses that have to be understood and worked with? [more]
This, unfortunately, is the reason that I have a bad taste in my mouth when I think about this game. I'm going to take a lot of heat for what I'm about to say, but I'm honestly disappointed in the spiritual content of WW. The Great Faeries somewhat resemble the Hindu goddess Shiva. Link gains the ability to "possess" certain objects and even a few specific people. resemble Every few minutes it's "the gods this, and the gods that...", the Windwaker contains "the power of the gods", you get a certain ability from the wind god and the ability to travely quickly through cyclones from the cyclone god, and the Tower of the gods has the G in gods capitalized (yeah I know, it's part of the name but still...), and the two sages when mentioned are said to be praying to the gods. The only redeeming thing from the entire gods issue is in one instance you have to kick the cyclone god's butt (which I really enjoyed). What really did it for me though, was that there is a point in the game where it is required to seek out two sages to pray to the gods for the master sword to be reenergized. The game actually says something along the lines of "your prayers were answered and the master sword regained some of its power!" And for people whom would try to say "oh it's just fantasy" try talking to your pastor about it and see what he says... be sure to tell him about the Temple of the gods and the two wind gods, and the praying sages. But I'm a "thou shalt have no other gods before me" kinda guy, so I took this game back and asked for a refund. Yes, I've already been criticized for this, and surprisingly mostly from Christians. For those that think a 2 is too harsh, I would have given this a 1 except for the fact that I felt this game didn't deserve to be placed in the ranks of Diablo and Grand Theft Auto III. If it weren't for the praying bit, I'd have given this a 3 and would probably still have the game.
I'm glad he finds something "redeeming" in a work produced by a polytheistic culture that features... polytheism, even if he's "honestly disappointed" by it. Thankfully, he doesn't believe that other cultures should be placed in the ranks of GTA3.
I wonder if strict Shinto believers are offended when an American work makes a vague hint toward monotheism, such as Warcraft III's "The Light". I'm guessing not, but I could be wrong.
Let's just call it "The Demon" instead. All gods are inimical to human life, human reason, and human freedom. It's not apostasy, but justifiable deicide.
He plays tranquility .
Maybe that's true in modern Hebrew, but not ancient Hebrew:
Yeah, sez who, Einstein? Pfft :P
God not only plays dice with the universe, but sometimes throws them where we can't see them.
--Stephen Hawking
If you want to extend the usage of the word sacred to include a general spiritual approach to life in all its particulars, that's fine by me (though one would need a new term to designate the specifically sanctified and hallowed). But the journalist's sentence is even more moronic under that interpretation; if all actions are sacred, it makes no sense to wonder if one specific act will (presumably thanks to human effort, given the context of the statement) become sacred at some point in the future.
So, do you get a full-body tactical feedback device for when your Steven or Paul characters get stoned?
Alright, come on and proselytize to me in the PK arena!
(/me is an aggressive antitheist - quit believing or quit breathing!)
-Billco, Fnarg.com
In short, they don't work very well as the ultimate beings in the universe. Their motives are all-too-human, and their power too limited for them to be the entities who created the universe. So some fictional settings combine this polytheistic approach with a sort of agnostic monotheism. They introduce a behind-the-scenes god who IS all powerful and who created everything, but doesn't get involved in the affairs of mortals. The Nameless in EverQuest is this type of entity, as is Ao in the Forgotten Realms, the Creator in the Wheel of Time, and so on. This two-tiered approach gives authors a convenient way to provide for battling gods / immortals / heroes / whatever while still resolving the big philosophical questions of their universe in a way that is analagous to the way many people answer them in real life.
As far as preaching on MMORPG's, I'd say unless you are doing so privately with your friends that you know well enough to discuss serious and personal topics with, keep it in character. It's good roleplay to say "You tree-hugging fool, forsake the worthless Tunare and follow the dark path of Innoruuk!" but running around starting arguments about real-life religions would not be.
Very good point. If you want to promote/criticize belief systems that are part of the game, rock on... but discussion of a real-world religion (including telling another player, "Come worship the Nameless One with me - He's the same as the Jewish G_d!") should be as taboo as trying to sell real-world vaccuum cleaners to other players.
There are only 10 types of people: those who understand decimal, those who don't, and, uh, 8 other types I forget.
I wish fucking idiots would not talk about other religions if they don't know jack shit about them.
In the article they talk about how the fairies in Wind Waker resemble the Hindu Goddess Shiva.
Having spent some time in India and studying the religion in some areas, Shiva was most definitely a male god, worshipped mostly for fertility.
It turnsout with some investigation details about Shiva do vary depending on location and what religion you investigate him in. A few say he is both ale and female, but as all of them show him taking Parvati as a wife... I dunno.
People worship/make offerings to a Shiva Lingam. A phallic stone on a pedestal with a downspout, if you have seen League of Extraordinary Gentlemen the tower/deck of the Nautilus was one. I had to suppress my laughter every time I saw it.
Some other eastern cultures do have depictions of Shiva as female, but I didn't run into any in India itself, so I assume much like how they have a female representation of Buddha they wanted a female Shiva.