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Commercializing Open Source Software

CowboyRobot writes "Michael Karels, system architect for BSD 4.3 and 4.4, has an article on ACM Queue about the challenges in trying to make money from open source software. From the article: 'As users of the software, open source contributors have certain common interests in making the software stable and usable.' but 'When additions require modifications to the base system, there may be resistance to incorporating the changes.'"

214 comments

  1. but... by taff^2 · · Score: 3, Funny

    isn't that why OSS projects get forked?

    --
    Karma: Bad. (As in Good?)
  2. Making Money by rsmith-mac · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The only way that companies are really going to make big money off open-source is to in a sense, drop open source. As long as they can sell something that can't be given away(such as the Finder in OS X), there's money to be made. Otherwise, they'll sell support contracts here and there, but no company is going to make it in to the "big time" with just support; even IBM has other buisnesses.

    1. Re:Making Money by turnstyle · · Score: 4, Interesting
      This might sound ugly, but making money is important. And it's more than just buying food and paying rent.

      Money can help affect political change, and when coders pass on the chance to make money, they also pass on the chance to affect political change.

      Obviously you can still make a change without money, but it's quite a lot easier if you have some.

      As I see it, when coders are giving their work away for free for professional use by international companies, they are being had.

      --
      Here's what I do: Bitty Browser & Andromeda
    2. Re:Making Money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I don't think any company is ever going to make big-bucks out of open source because that's not really the point of open source.

      Many people enjoy tweaking products and writing new software. The open source paradigm can offer a personally rewarding framework in which to do this: your work can be communicated to others, generalised, improved etc. The very fact of writing something that's going to be public forces a very high standard on conscientious software writers as well - no-one wants to have their work criticised.

    3. Re:Making Money by Etyenne · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As I see it, when coders are giving their work away for free for professional use by international companies, they are being had.

      And if the little coder use code Open-Sourced by large corporation, is he "having" them ?

      I think you don't get the gift culture. IBM use the little coder's code, the little coder use IBM code, everybody is happy about it ! That's the point of open-Source : sharing. It goes both way.

      --
      :wq
    4. Re:Making Money by turnstyle · · Score: 2, Insightful
      "I think you don't get the gift culture. IBM use the little coder's code, the little coder use IBM code, everybody is happy about it ! That's the point of open-Source : sharing. It goes both way."

      I think you don't get the corporate culture. You may give away your work with good spirit, but when a publicly-traded multi-national corporation like IBM gives away work, it's as a result of a complex set of business decisions.

      In the case of IBM, it's most likely part of a larger anti-Microsoft startegy.

      If you believe that IBM is sharing code from some sort of sense of civic good will, you're mistaken...

      --
      Here's what I do: Bitty Browser & Andromeda
    5. Re:Making Money by Etyenne · · Score: 2

      I think you don't get the corporate culture. You may give away your work with good spirit, but when a publicly-traded multi-national corporation like IBM gives away work, it's as a result of a complex set of business decisions.

      In the case of IBM, it's most likely part of a larger anti-Microsoft startegy.

      If you believe that IBM is sharing code from some sort of sense of civic good will, you're mistaken...

      This is irrevelant. The result is the same : I have access, for free, to code contributed by a big corporation. Wether they opened it by goodwill or a complex set of business decisions, I don't care.

      --
      :wq
    6. Re:Making Money by God!+Awful+2 · · Score: 2, Insightful


      I think you don't get the gift culture. IBM use the little coder's code, the little coder use IBM code, everybody is happy about it ! That's the point of open-Source : sharing. It goes both way.

      That hasn't worked in 90% of the cases. In most cases, the company contributes some software, the OSS community uses it for free, all the time bragging about how the company should be grateful to them, the company starts to lose money and they come out with a non-free special edition, the OSS community gets bitter and puts out a 100% free version, and the company goes out of business.

      As for IBM, they are not the first to try to ride the OSS bucking bronco. We shall see what there attitude is in a few years. This article (well page 7 at least) reminded me of the infamous Netscape list of business cases that was posted to /. maybe 4-5 years ago. I think at least that IBM is more cynical than that. I also find it funny that the author even cited VA Linux in its list of business cases.

      -a

    7. Re:Making Money by turnstyle · · Score: 1
      "This is irrevelant. The result is the same : I have access, for free, to code contributed by a big corporation. Wether they opened it by goodwill or a complex set of business decisions, I don't care."

      Irrelevant? You're the one that characterized IBM's OS contributions as part of a "gift culture".

      If all you care about is getting something for free, that's your decision. But as I see it, when coders give into an attitude like that, they reduce their share of econmoic power within a lager society, and reduce their opportunity to shape that socienty.

      I'd prefer for the coders to get more.

      --
      Here's what I do: Bitty Browser & Andromeda
    8. Re:Making Money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the leading commercial seller of OS's (read Microsoft) had been willing to do what they have repeatedly claimed to do, I don't think we would be seeing the interest in Open Source OS's (read Linux) that we are.

      My personal reasons for switching to Linux don't have a damned thing to do with money! I made the decision to switch based on Microsoft's horrible record on security/reliability, the endless supply of bugs that came with each new round of features and their ever-increasing intrusiveness into my life and my computer systems. Now, particularly on that last point, I don't think that anything except open source is going to fix that.

      I'm running Debian right now, tho I've been through SuSE, Mandrake, Lycoris and Corel. Everything previous to Debian had horrible stability problems. In my mind, they were no better than Microsoft as far as reliability goes. I bought those other products. Do you hear me? I BOUGHT them! And, collectively, I paid more than what one copy of Win2000 (the choice when I started looking) would have cost. The free alternative is (so far, I may change my mind yet) superior!

      Money can help affect political change... Yes, it can. And, yes, it has! Microsoft has a whole lot of political power. Given what they have chosen to do with it, I welcome the day when free, Open Source software pulls their fangs forever!

    9. Re:Making Money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Money can help affect political change


      Great idea. That's like fixing a program bug by taking advantage of a bug in your compiler.

      If it takes money to affect political change, then it's the political system itself that needs to be fixed, not the people whom it serves.
    10. Re:Making Money by turnstyle · · Score: 1
      "If it takes money to affect political change, then it's the political system itself that needs to be fixed, not the people whom it serves."

      You don't get it.

      It takes money to rent buses and buy gas to get to a rally.

      It takes money to print and mail flyers.

      Money can indeed be spent in ways that help bring out political change, and pretending otherwise doesn't make it so.

      --
      Here's what I do: Bitty Browser & Andromeda
    11. Re:Making Money by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      If you believe that IBM is sharing code from some sort of sense of civic good will, you're mistaken...

      Why?

      Corporations do lots of things all of the time to make themselves look less like the greedy, blood-sucking, economic parasites they are :-) - Just kidding.

      Actually, corporations are run by people, some of whom like to think that they do more than provide a value neutral link in the economic chain. It makes them more productive and likely to join the company in the first place if they think that an organization is doing things out of a "sense of civic good will". In addition, all companies products are purchased by people, some of whom like to think that they do more than provide a value neutral link in the economic chain. It makes them more likely to buy from the company in the first place if they think that an organization is doing things out of a "sense of civic good will". Corporations are among our country's largest charitable givers. They wouldn't be donating this money if they did not see a benefit. This "sense of civic good will" may not come from the company itself (corporations are, of course, artificial entities), but I do believe that there are people within these companies that support and provide resources in the name of "civic good will".

      To suggest that this type of support does not flow to technical communities, as well, would be quite improper - elsewise how do you explain corporate support of organizations like the ACM and IEEE? In the end, the company and its employees do get rewards from their "sense of civic good will". And this is why the company does it.

      Of course, that it also plants a boot in the face of Microsoft doesn't hurt either :-)...

      --
      That is all.
    12. Re:Making Money by turnstyle · · Score: 1
      "In the end, the company and its employees do get rewards from their "sense of civic good will". And this is why the company does it."

      Don't forget tax incentives... ;)

      IBM is a publicly traded company, and its goal is to maximize return-on-investment. If supporting a cause helps better achieve that goal, they will support that cause.

      You're absolutely correct that the people within the company most likely do personally care, but the execs in charge are pulling in tidy salaries for one reason: to make money for shareholders.

      --
      Here's what I do: Bitty Browser & Andromeda
    13. Re:Making Money by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1
      but the execs in charge are pulling in tidy salaries for one reason: to make money for shareholders.

      Yeah, I know - just like with Enron and WorldCom :-).

      --
      That is all.
  3. BSD-style licenses are a double-edged sword. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    'When additions require modifications to the base system, there may be resistance to incorporating the changes.'
    That's the risk you take with BSD-style licenses.
  4. Charging for custom work... by turnstyle · · Score: 4, Interesting
    So far, I've not open sourced Andromeda because I'm trying to make a living and I don't really believe in most of the here's-how-to-make-money-from-free-software ideas.

    A number of users have suggested that I charge for custom work, but when I ask them if they would ever pay for cutom work, the answer is always no.

    --
    Here's what I do: Bitty Browser & Andromeda
    1. Re:Charging for custom work... by kfg · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think your product is a good example of why ESR "forked" free software into Open Source(tm) software.

      In the pragmatic world of business some code is more valuable closed and some is more valuable open. At the moment your code is more valuable to you closed so you can sell it and make a living directly from your work.

      There will come a time, however, when if you are going to continue to make a living by peddling your own code you are going to have to produce more product.

      If that product builds upon and enhances what you have already done Andromeda may actually be more valuable to you open.

      Wisdom lies in accurately determining when that line is crossed.

      KFG

    2. Re:Charging for custom work... by turnstyle · · Score: 4, Interesting
      "If that product builds upon and enhances what you have already done Andromeda may actually be more valuable to you open."

      Hey, I'm totally open to it -- but so far most of the arguments that I've heard haven't passed the 'real world' test.

      A lot of people look to mega projects like MySQL as success stories, but that's not a likely outcome for most projects...

      --
      Here's what I do: Bitty Browser & Andromeda
    3. Re:Charging for custom work... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You've hit the proverbial nail on the head there turnstyle, old pal.

      Customers are *cheap* !

      They want everything you can throw at them for free, but are unwilling to pay (even modest amounts) for support or customization.

      Yeah! We all know they *should* pay for support and custom code, but get real.

      I have tried this route, honestly. But I fail to see how it can ever work out financially - unless you are blessed with dealing with somewhat different customers from my own (SME thru corporate).

      If you have made this concept work, then please, for the love of Mike, explain to the rest of how you did it.

      And now repeat after me:

      - There is no Open Source business model!
      - There is no Open Source business model!
      - There is no Open Source business model!

    4. Re:Charging for custom work... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There will come a time, however, when if you are going to continue to make a living by peddling your own code you are going to have to produce more product.

      If that product builds upon and enhances what you have already done Andromeda may actually be more valuable to you open.

      Then make sure you don't release Andromeda under the GPL because you won't be able to have a closed product that builds on the progress Andormeda will gain from other's contribution. And if you release it as BSD then anyone can use it to make competing products. One way or the other, if you want to make money off your code, don't open source it.

    5. Re:Charging for custom work... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's right!

      MySQL has grown from a $0m business to a $0bn business in just a few years!

    6. Re:Charging for custom work... by kfg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      On the other hand he can't just go on selling Andromeda forever. If it's really valuable (in the useful sense) he will eventually have competitors ( some of them open source) and the field will be comodetized.

      It's happening right now in the office suite field and stand alone word processors are a dime a dozen.

      If you stay just ahead of the curve and become the open source "alternative" yourself you retain all the customer good will to your own company.

      Do not discount the financial value of good will. When a small business is sold this item often constitutes the majority of the selling price.

      The catch is that it's a capital investment that doesn't return immediate cashflow, so it often gets either overlooked or outright discounted.

      In my business ( which is instore) my most valuable asset is being able to greet my customers by name, not the stuff I have to sell them. The second I stop doing that I stop selling stuff.

      There's no way I can quantify that on a balance sheet though.

      Wal-Mart vaguely understands this, that's why they maintain a creepy semblence of the practice.

      The trick is to maintain a personal relationship with your customers even when you get big, without doing it in a bizarre and creepy-crawly way like Wal-Mart.

      In the software field one way to do that is opening the source of your older product, thus maintaining the relationship and the ability to sell them your newer product.

      KFG

    7. Re:Charging for custom work... by drakaan · · Score: 1

      Nice Ad... ;)

      --
      "Murphy was an optimist" - O'Toole's commentary on Murphy's Law
    8. Re:Charging for custom work... by turnstyle · · Score: 4, Insightful
      "MySQL has grown from a $0m business to a $0bn business in just a few years!"

      Funny, and a good point.

      I had assumed that a project like MySQL could pay it's own way, but I don't know if they are. If even hugely popular projects can't make it, then that doesn't bode well for small-time OS coders that hope to earn a living from their efforts...

      --
      Here's what I do: Bitty Browser & Andromeda
    9. Re:Charging for custom work... by Kakurenbo+Shogun · · Score: 4, Informative
      I've surprised myself recently by making money on some software I released as open source. Last year, I wrote an RSS parser to display news headlines from other sites on a few of mine. I'd taken a quick look at what was available and couldn't find anything that quite did what I want, so I made my own (CaRP - Caching RSS Parser).

      Next, I decided I may as well give it away for free to bring more traffic into my site, and eventually decided to release it under the GPL.

      At some point, after receiving many emails asking for help installing it (not everyone who knows how to make a web page knows how to set up a PHP script), it occurred to me that I could give people the option of hiring me to install it for them. A number of people have done so, and I've gotten some custom work from some of them too. I also get great ideas for improving the product when people ask to have it do things it can't do yet.

      Has this experience convinced me to GPL anything else I've written? No. I do have a few other little things I'm giving away free, but I also have a number of products that I won't be releasing that way. Some I previously distributed as shareware, and found that very few people were willing to pay even a very small registration fee. So I switched to giving away a somewhat crippled demo version and requiring payment for the full version.

      I guess the moral of this story is that if a enough users of a product will need someone to set it up for them, and if the price you can charge for setting it up is comparable to what you'd sell it for if you sold it, open sourcing the product can work well. But I don't think open source is the right model for everything--not unless you already have all the money you need and are just developing products for fun.

      --
      Convert RSS to HTML - integrate webfeeds into your website
    10. Re:Charging for custom work... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well you should have made the product easier to install and documented the process.

      Jeeze - what have we come to now now - OSS profit thru obscurity?

    11. Re:Charging for custom work... by turnstyle · · Score: 2, Interesting
      "The trick is to maintain a personal relationship with your customers"

      I totally agree. But the ability to do just that is based on time -- the time to interact, listen, and get to know each other. And you have to justify that time financially.

      Some in this thread suggest that I should charge for that, but that just doesn't feel right to me, and I don't think it would feel right to my customers.

      By charging for software, I can apply that not just to coding time, but also to personal support, improving the docs, and everything else you have to do to make something good.

      Some of that stuff is fun, and some is not, and I think that it has the best long-term shot if it can financially sustain itself.

      --
      Here's what I do: Bitty Browser & Andromeda
    12. Re:Charging for custom work... by Ed+Avis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      All software is more valuable when Open Source, however it may not be more valuable *to its author*.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    13. Re:Charging for custom work... by Etyenne · · Score: 1

      Obviously a troll, but let's bait for advocacy purpose

      They want everything you can throw at them for free, but are unwilling to pay (even modest amounts) for support or customization.

      False. I am earning a living supporting, customizing and integrating OSS. It's exactly the same thing as if we where selling CSS, except we don't charge for license (and often are able to charge more for service because of that). If your client are that cheap, write them off and concentrate your sales effort on better client.

      If you have made this concept work, then please, for the love of Mike, explain to the rest of how you did it.

      Business 101 :

      1. Find client with a need that can be fulfilled with OSS (pretty much anything you can think of ... firewall/gateway, mail server, fax server, custom application, etc).
      2. Do a good job
      3. Profit !
      --
      :wq
    14. Re:Charging for custom work... by kfg · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But the author likes to eat; and therein lies the dilema.

      We do not reward people for contributions to society ( or I'd be a happy a little camper churning out books for Project Gutenberg), we make our respective livings filching money from each other's pockets.

      Socialism does not change this, unfortunately. It merely changes the pecking order and rules for doing the filching.

      "Grant writer" has become a profession.

      KFG

    15. Re:Charging for custom work... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting
      Clearly anything that challenges your preconceived notions is "obviously a troll" but.. False. I am earning a living supporting, customizing and integrating OSS.

      Well it may be 'false' for you, but then you don't appear to originate any software - you only use the software of others.

      What if you are a sortware developer - rather than an integrator - how does it work then?

      Maybe you mean that only 'integrators' (i.e. middlemen) can make money in the OSS scheme of things. Where does that leave the developers?

    16. Re:Charging for custom work... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I totally agree with the value of good will and that it accounts for the biggest part of a SMB being bought. Goodwill is often included in balance sheets so the stock price isn't solely based on sales revenue and physical assets. However, I have problems with the following point ...

      If you stay just ahead of the curve and become the open source "alternative" yourself you retain all the customer good will to your own company.

      I don't care about being the open source alternative myself since I can't sell my software like I used to (it's now open source, everyone will be able to download it from anyone who got the source and placed it on their server). Make money selling support and docs? you won't live off of this.

      Selling open source products might become profitable only if you only have to cover a small portion of the development cost. That's the case for high profile projects and Linux distributions are close to this situation. However, if your software has only 4 coders and you're the only full-time coder, there is no benefit in open-sourcing it if your objective is living off of this. Find one or 2 coders you get along with very well, make them partners so you don't have to pay them. Your project evolves and you can keep selling more and more and you share the revenues with you partners.

    17. Re:Charging for custom work... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We do not reward people for contributions to society

      We do. It's called copyright. If you can control the scarcity of a resource, and there is demand for that resource, you can make money from it.

      Turnstyle seems to be getting his reward from contributing to society just fine. If he thinks that he can get a better reward by opening up the source, then fine.

    18. Re:Charging for custom work... by Zeriel · · Score: 1

      At least as far as I'm concerned:

      I get paid to integrate software, mine and others.
      I get paid to enhance that software, and release it into the ecosystem as the price I pay for the base system in the first place.

      As a developer, I make money from open source. The way I look at it is thus: I sacrifice the profit potential somewhat by releasing my code as open source. I get the benefit, tho, of having all the body of GPL/BSD (I'm a GPL guy) work to base my code on.

      As you may have guessed, I'm a staff developer/sysadmin at a company that doesn't sell software. The company benefits from FOSS, because I and my co-worker are cheaper than buying proprietary. We benefit because we're getting paid to do something we enjoy and that lines up with our moral values re:software.

      I think a large part of the benefits of FOSS comes from a sense of moral gain from having shared, that offsets the monetary gain somewhat. But that's just my take.

      --
      "America has done some terrible things. But I know that Americans don't cheer when innocents die." -Dave Barry
    19. Re:Charging for custom work... by UserGoogol · · Score: 1

      Fine. But copyright is an inherently crufty way of working rewards for artists and scientists into Capitalism, and even then it has the flaws that people not only need to make something valuable, but marketable, which is slightly different. Open source software is typically more valuable, but often less marketable.

      Government grants are a contrasting method, in which people who create things of value are rewarded directly. Of course, that has its share of problems too, I suppose.

      --
      "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." -- Hanlon's Razor
    20. Re:Charging for custom work... by Tony-A · · Score: 1

      All software is more valuable when Open Source, however it may not be more valuable *to its author*.
      Short term, definitely.
      Long term, ...
      but 'When additions require modifications to the base system, there may be resistance to incorporating the changes.'
      Open Source may be free, but it's not cheap.

    21. Re:Charging for custom work... by ndogg · · Score: 1

      When a customer's competitors have a "killer-app" feature implemented in their product that the customer doesn't have, and would require customization of the software that you wrote for that feature to be implemented, they'll be looking for some support, and the author is always the best place to look.

      Customers may be cheap, but most OSS customers are likely to be businesses, and businesses rarely like being behind.

      --
      // file: mice.h
      #include "frickin_lasers.h"
    22. Re:Charging for custom work... by Mostly+a+lurker · · Score: 1
      There is one way some individuals have done very well out of OSS: by using it as a proof of their skills. Some companies, when looking at retaining consultants or full-time employees, are willing to pay a significant premium to those who have established a reputation in the OSS area.

      For organisations, as opposed to individuals, it is less clear how one can benefit. IBM seems to have a viable business plan: sales of hardware, services and add-on software products, using open source components as a means to reduce the customer's TCO. Many other organisations seem to have a business plan based largely on wishful thinking.

    23. Re:Charging for custom work... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Financing:
      MySQL is privately held and has been profitable since 1996.

    24. Re:Charging for custom work... by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1

      Huh? There may be resistance to incorporating changes to proprietary software too. At least if it's free you have the additional option of maintaining your own version.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    25. Re:Charging for custom work... by Tony-A · · Score: 1

      resistance to incorporating changes to proprietary software too.
      Resistance is far too mild a term. Old proprietary software will not be improved. There is a small window where a potential buyer has an opportunity to affect the proprietary product with his own (usually stupid) ideas.
      The point I was trying to make is that over time, Open Source tends toward a quality level that is far too expensive for proprietary software to achieve.
      If it's free you have the option of maintaining your own version. If your changes are advantageous to the core, it is strongly advantageous that they be in the core, otherwise you've orphaned yourself from anyone else's improvements to the core. The end result is some very expensive software (in terms of what it is (value)) that is obtained at a very reasonable cost.

  5. subcriptions by mschoolbus · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I think offering Subscribtion services is about the best way to make money with open source (Transgaming, Lindows, Slashdot?, even tech support).

    1. Re:subcriptions by Rogerborg · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why?

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    2. Re:subcriptions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well then you're talking about offering a 'service' not a 'product'.

      If you're a software developer then your software is a 'product'.

      If you wan't to sell a service, save yourself the time and use someone elses free software!

    3. Re:subcriptions by mschoolbus · · Score: 1

      Well then you're talking about offering a 'service' not a 'product'.

      Read the comment, THEN reply.

      I think offering Subscribtion services is about the best way to make money with open source (Transgaming, Lindows, Slashdot?, even tech support).

    4. Re:subcriptions by gustgr · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think that's the change that Open Source creates at the
      business world: the companies must focus their objectives
      (and their proffit) at service offering based on their products,
      and not on license selling.

      Smaller projects though may not have success that way, and
      some can think that this can monopolize the market.

      Open source can be compared to *JUST COMPARSION*
      communism: it is beautifull at theory,but in practice
      it doesn't work perfectly. It is nice to "help our neighboor"
      and sentences like "helping each other is the bases of our
      society" [RMS] but is necessary to know how to apply
      this terms harmonilly within the capitalist world that we
      live nowdays.

      The open source code isn't the final solution yet, though
      is a good step to achieve a higher position at humans
      evolution scale. There are challenges on its way, and we
      have to deal with that, either we want or not.

  6. Slashdotted after 3 minutes by taff^2 · · Score: 1

    Is that a record?

    Does anybody have the text of the article?

    --
    Karma: Bad. (As in Good?)
    1. Re:Slashdotted after 3 minutes by morbuz · · Score: 5, Informative

      > Does anybody have the text of the article?

      Commercializing Open Source Software
      ACM Queue vol. 1, no. 5 - July/August 2003
      by Michael J. Karels

      Introduction

      The use of open source software has become increasingly popular in production environments, as well as in research and software development. One obvious attraction is the low cost of acquisition. Commercial software has a higher initial cost, though it usually has advantages such as support and training. A number of business models designed by users and vendors combine open source and commercial software; they use open source as much as possible, adding commercial software as needed. They may use open source software as a central component of a product or service, but use other components to add value, which can then induce customers to pay for the offering (obviously, it is hard to compete with free software on price).

      After a brief overview of the salient differences between open source and commercial software, this article will describe several basic business models in today's marketplace to highlight ways that value is added to open source software and services. For the most part, I will discuss only complete software systems sufficient for some useful purpose, such as network servers, which include an operating system and its associated components, any applications needed for the system's purpose, and necessary local configuration information. Many of the same principles apply to components such as applications and other software packages.

      Open Source Development

      The development process for open source software is often quite different from that of traditional commercial software. In some cases a single author or a small group may develop and distribute a program or system. Successful software often attracts additional developers, however, and larger projects generally require larger teams. These teams tend to be distributed, with participants in different locations and with different affiliations. Some members may contribute their own time; others may be paid to work on the project. Some projects develop infrastructure such as a consortium to coordinate the project; others work with a looser organization. In either case, projects are likely to be organized with less central control than in traditional software development. Some projects may have a strong central figure such as the initial author of the software, but many other projects have "outgrown" central control.

      This less-centralized structure affects the development process for open source projects in several ways:

      * Community support is often available via mailing lists associated with a project. Response ranges from rapid to nonexistent.
      * Projects may have many volunteer contributors. Their abilities and availability can vary significantly.
      * In terms of quality, Darwinism applies. Some software features may be added while the project is still incomplete or experimental. These features may eventually be removed or replaced, or they may be improved over time. The addition of features and other modifications is driven by the interests and wishes of the contributors (including companies that pay staff to extend open source software). As users of the software, these contributors have certain common interests in making the software stable and usable. They may have substantially different uses for the software, however, as well as different ideas about how the software should be engineered and extended. The direction taken by the software developers may be driven by those who have the most time to devote to development or by those with the greatest tolerance for the discussions on mailing lists for the project. When different groups design and implement the various subsystems, their architectures might not have similar or compatible styles.
      * The open source process is inherently social and political. Group leaders spend as much time on organizational matters and conflict resolution as on technical issues

      --
      CAPS LOCK IS LIKE CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL!
    2. Re:Slashdotted after 3 minutes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A very significant example isn't mentioned in the article - GNAT (the GNU Ada compiler).

      GNAT is available to commercial customers as a certified Ada95 compiler with plenty of support (considering the types of purposes Ada is usually used for, certification and support are very valuable). It is also available for free, and has been integrated into GCC (although it isn't going to build most of the time because it requires Ada to bootstrap).

      A few years ago I noticed that the free version lagged behind the commercial version significantly. Which is natural, because it is hardly in the interest of anybody to fork a free version that would keep up with commercial releases by merging changes acquired from commercial customers, when the changes will eventually make it to the official free version, as well!

      So even for (some) GPL'd products, it is possible to sustain a reasonable split commercial/free model.

  7. software for free pay for the support by jlemmerer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    many free programs pay off for the developers because they charge for support. without proper support software is often not worth considering for many organisations, so that's a convenient way to raise funds for further development. Even more i don't think that making certain changes for money is a bad idea (as long as it doesn't compromise other parts of the program or makes it incompatible to prior versions), for all of the users will profit from it, the buyer gets what he wants and the developers get money they need to further develop the program.

    --
    ".Sig Stealer" was here
    1. Re:software for free pay for the support by jooon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I agree that support can be a big source of income, but my idea of a good computer program is that it should be so easy to use it doesn't require any support. What do you do then?

    2. Re:software for free pay for the support by mariox19 · · Score: 1

      In all seriousness, I thought this was the open source business model: selling support and documentation.

      Now, many products have freely available documentation, and some of it is really good. On the flip side, however, many open source products have "documentation" which is a mix of arcane man pages, howto's, and user lists.

      If you develop a successful product (Apache, Struts, Samba), I thought the idea was to make a name for yourself as one of the alpha-geek developers, and to use that name to write a book for O'Reilly or some other outfit. Aside from documentation, you set up a consulting shop and sell support to bigger customers.

      It's kind of like giving your music away for free, and making your money on tour and through merchandising.

      Open source is a big, pie-in-the-sky start-up! Most projects die; but some provide a living for a small circle of coders. No?

      --

      quiquid id est, timeo puellas et oscula dantes.

    3. Re:software for free pay for the support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      It's kind of like giving your music away for free, and making your money on tour and through merchandising No. It's kind of like giving everything away for free, and making nothing!

    4. Re:software for free pay for the support by Rogerborg · · Score: 1

      And here's my problem with that. Sellers want products that need to be supported. I'm not interested in writing those apps. I'm interested in OSs and apps that work, and are documented well enough that I don't have to pay someone to tell me where the Any Key is.

      Joe IT: So, why should I switch to this lunix thing?

      Vendor: It's really stable and cheaper to deploy!

      Joe IT: Uh, how do make your money?

      Vendor: Um, by selling you support.

      Joe IT: At least Microsoft don't bullshit me when they're fucking me up the ass.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    5. Re:software for free pay for the support by Zachary+Kessin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well it depends on what the software is and what it does. OK sure a spreadsheet should be easy to use and not require much support. Unless you are talking about custom macros or whatever. But say a large scale database will need support and custom work.

      The thing is that it is posible to get a company to spend money to improve a piece of infrastructre like the linux kernel or mysql if they need that for other things. But only once the thing is getting to the point where it is basicly usable. While DEC had 2-3 people working on linux way back when no major players put big money into linux until it was rather robust already.

      As for support cygnus did a lot of support for GCC, mostly in the form of ports and optimization for specific chips and so on. And made good money doing it.

      --
      Erlang Developer and podcaster
    6. Re:software for free pay for the support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Vendor: It's really stable and cheaper to deploy!

      Well, of course, any lying, fuckwit vendor will tell you the same thing, whatever the product

      So Rogerborg, why exactly, is Linux cheaper to deploy that Windows?

      Care to back up you cavalier assertions with some real-life experience, (or God forbid!), some facts?

    7. Re:software for free pay for the support by DanielDittmar · · Score: 1

      It just doesn't sound right to charge for things that don't work (support) and not for what does work (software).

    8. Re:software for free pay for the support by Rogerborg · · Score: 1

      Hey, don't drag me into this sordid fantasy! ;-)

      As far as I'm concerned, if you don't absolutely need linux, stick with Windows. I say this because - unlike corporate bean counters - I actually class salaries as expenses, and think (observe, rather) that Linux is only free as in beer if you don't value your time.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    9. Re:software for free pay for the support by zby · · Score: 1

      I value my time and that's why I use Linux whenever I can. It just plays better with my way of doing things.

    10. Re:software for free pay for the support by TwistedGreen · · Score: 1

      What do you do then?

      Starve. ;)

    11. Re:software for free pay for the support by Arandir · · Score: 1

      To paraphrase an executive of Trolltech, "why should we base our business model on crappy software? Our goal is to create software that doesn't NEED support."

      --
      A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
    12. Re:software for free pay for the support by mariox19 · · Score: 1

      Well, plenty of musicians play for "exposure" (translation: free). If your project does become successful -- big time! -- I think my analogy holds.

      --

      quiquid id est, timeo puellas et oscula dantes.

  8. The reason by Kleedrac2 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The problem comes in the nature of the beast. It's like art really. Artists perform their art because it makes them feel good to share. And they want everyone to be in on it. The same can be said of Open Source. People code Open Source cause they want to not only create something for themselves, but to give it to the world. The problem comes in, about the same time as it hits the artist, when they want to put more time and energy behind their creation. They start to realize that the only way to dedicate more of their lives to this brain child of theirs they can't be bothered by things as mundane as work, or bills. The only solution is to make their brain child their job!! But because of things like the GPL, they've effectivly shot themselves in the foot. They can no longer sell their brain child. They can't even offer it for a measly $20 unless there's something else they can give with it. Thusly the support angle. Why do people go out and pay $60 for a copy of Red Hat when they can download .iso's or do an FTP install? Because if they pay, there's some guy who's sitting by a phone, and he's perfectly willing to help them when they fuck it up. If more OSS coders went non-OSS, and offered the source to purchasers through some new liscencing system the OSS movement would die though. I didn't say I had a solution, only that I think I have some insight as to the problem.

    Kleedrac

    --
    Sure we wang, can.
    1. Re:The reason by latroM · · Score: 0, Funny

      >But because of things like the GPL, they've effectivly shot themselves in the foot. How is this? If you keep all the copyrights yourself you can release it under a different license. And if you started coding that software project and it is popular you can expect that people want support and new features to it.

    2. Re:The reason by jandrese · · Score: 1

      Because once you have a free version out there, people will be hesitant to upgrade to the pay version, even if it is a bit better. Look at FreeAgent for example. Once you have the GPL version out there, it's never going to go away, and there is a good chance that once you start charging for the code, someone will take over the free version and start mirroring your new features.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    3. Re:The reason by Kleedrac2 · · Score: 1

      Exactly ... another case in point is Trillian. They released one hell of a free (not even OSS but just free) IM client. Now that the Pro version is out and they want $20 barely 40% of their user base has bought it!!

      Kleedrac

      --
      Sure we wang, can.
    4. Re:The reason by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 1

      40% of a user base that grew enormous based on the free product?

      That's a win. A big win. I would have guessed 10%.

      40% of 100,000 people is a lot more than 100% of 50 people.

    5. Re:The reason by MSBob · · Score: 1

      40% adoption for the paid version? Any marketing drone would tell you that that's huuge! If they were hoping for an even higher adoption rate they were deluding themselves.

      --
      Your pizza just the way you ought to have it.
    6. Re:The reason by theIG · · Score: 1

      "They cant even offer it fo a measly $20..."

      Actually you can, and some even get away with it. for example, check out this Application Program called Acquisition. It appears to be shareware at first, but it's actually open source software.

      Also, I see heard people above are saying that support for OSS can't comare with comercial software. That just isn't true. One of the great things about Free Software is that you have options. I can get my support from companies like Cygwin, Redhat, Suse, VaSoftware, or my Neighbor. Competition is a good thing. On the other hand, with companies like Adobe, only have one option for support, the people who own the source code.

      If Richard Stallman can do it, so can we.

  9. Open Source Movies?? by edwilli · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I believe in open source (or at least want to). But I think money rules in this world. If you look at other forms of Media and Art, giving stuff away won't get movies like Matrix made.

    This is not to say that there are not many, many very good independent films. I'm just saying that maybe Linux and other Open Source projects are trying to hard to get the wrong market.

    With "limited" resources a focus should be made to take the server market from M$, drop the GUI crap, Linux WON'T win on the desktop (at least not yet). But can easily win on the server.

    Michigan Photography

    1. Re:Open Source Movies?? by kikai+suki · · Score: 0, Funny

      Just like lots of stuff that was small clams and far from anyone's radar in the past, if OSS is "picked up" by some large company with clout and skill it will proliferate. Isn't OSX based on OSS?

    2. Re:Open Source Movies?? by twoslice · · Score: 1

      I agree with the parent. There are only so many Blair Witch Projects one can take!

      --

      From excellent karma to terible karma with a single +5 funny post...
    3. Re:Open Source Movies?? by smallpaul · · Score: 1

      I believe in open source (or at least want to). But I think money rules in this world. If you look at other forms of Media and Art, giving stuff away won't get movies like Matrix made.

      Fine. But software is not media or art. It is functional.

      This is not to say that there are not many, many very good independent films.

      What do independent films have to do with open source software? Just as there are independent filmmakers, there are independent software vendors (ISVs). But that doesn't make them open source vendors.

      I'm just saying that maybe Linux and other Open Source projects are trying to hard to get the wrong market.

      Still don't follow your analogy.

      With "limited" resources a focus should be made to take the server market from M$, drop the GUI crap, Linux WON'T win on the desktop (at least not yet). But can easily win on the server.

      You say that Linux won't win the desktop "yet" but how would it ever win on the desktop if it dropped the GUI crap? When Linux was first developed, nobody thought it could win the server either. I'm sure some advocated they should just focus on the hobbyist market.

    4. Re:Open Source Movies?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What humorless asshole modded parent down?
      Sheesh!

    5. Re:Open Source Movies?? by Karn · · Score: 1

      "With "limited" resources a focus should be made to take the server market from M$, drop the GUI crap, Linux WON'T win on the desktop (at least not yet). But can easily win on the server."

      This statement shows that you don't get it, and I don't know where to begin..

      I don't use Linux on my desktop because I think it will win or whatever.. I use it because it does what I need, and I suspect most people who use a Linux desktop use it for the same reason.

      And who are you talking to when you say "drop the GUI crap."? Why should people stop trying to write good, free software that people like myself prefer to use just because you say it won't win some war that only people like yourself acknowledge?

      Besides, why are you in such a hurry to see something happen? I see posts like yours so often: Oh, if only you (as if they are referencing a single person and not the entire world) would focus on X, X would be so much better than this Y that Microsoft does!

      Bah.

      --


      Why do I keep typing pythong?
    6. Re:Open Source Movies?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you really think that movie fans, 3d artists, developers, writers, cartoonists around the world, all working together, couldn't pull off a good story?

      Do you really think there would be enough good stories to interest different audiences? Enough variance in production to have short films and epics?

      Do you really think it wouldn't kick the ass of any typical box office flick, simply by virtue of not being so formulaic?

      I would *gladly* replace holywood with such a system. And I wouldn't care if it meant less films. I'm sure the entertainment value would easily make up for every pointless made-for-the-takings sequel produced at the minute.

  10. OT perhaps but, Not a Troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Forgive the potentially offensive question but, what is the advantage of your software? How is it different than putting an MP3 on a web server and creating a link to it? Obviously, you also have a page for displaying the links but, this seems trivial to me and it also seems that the page syle would be a matter of taste so, site owners are likely to want to do their own customized page anyway.

    No offense intended, I just don't understand.

    1. Re:OT perhaps but, Not a Troll by turnstyle · · Score: 1

      I'd love to spew forth the vitues of Andromeda, but this thread isn't the right place. Take a closer look at the Andromeda site, and if you want send an email and I'd be happy to explain more...

      --
      Here's what I do: Bitty Browser & Andromeda
  11. An opinion by Vexalith · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Perhaps we shouldn't be trying to commercialise OSS. Perhaps we should be trying to commercialise the businesses and products/services which rely on OSS.

    For example if I set up a cybercafe and write some software to deal with scheduling and billing, I'm not looking to make money from it. Instead I'm looking to make money from the business that relies on it. Providing a service is what is going to make me the money, and by opening the source of my billing software I may find a wealth of people willing to help me improve it and to use it themselves in other commercial products which pay their bills (and not mine). I get free upgrades and enhancements and they get the basis of a product that runs their business.

    It's just an idea, and I'm no economist, but I have a feeling that this sort of set-up could work in many situations.

    The key is educating companies in to believing that it's their (civic?) duty to contribute back to the OSS products they use. For example, if every business that uses Linux and has more than 1000 employees were to donate the time of one employee to improving Linux (working full time in the OSS community), we'd see pretty rapid improvement. People are begining to catch on (IBM, Red Hat...), but more of the same would be nice, IMVHO.

    1. Re:An opinion by bhima · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Another take on this theme would be that it is a community resource and deserves public funding

      --
      Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
    2. Re:An opinion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dead on the money. The root phemonenon driving OSS is that excellent coders are no longer scarce, thus, development of excellent software is no longer an activity driven purely by the economic incentive of supplying scarce resources. Linus said something like this a long time ago: the Linux phenomenon is not just about the kernel and code, it's about the implementation, and the implementation is where the *really* interesting stuff will happen. That's where most of us *can* help, and also where there's money to be made.

    3. Re:An opinion by Serapth · · Score: 2, Interesting

      For example if I set up a cybercafe and write some software to deal with scheduling and billing, I'm not looking to make money from it. Instead I'm looking to make money from the business that relies on it. Providing a service is what is going to make me the money, and by opening the source of my billing software I may find a wealth of people willing to help me improve it and to use it themselves in other commercial products which pay their bills (and not mine). I get free upgrades and enhancements and they get the basis of a product that runs their business.

      Ok... lets look at the flipside. What if that software you designed to make your business more efficent is released open source, and your competitors start using it. What happens when your competitor starts running more efficently and has an excess of money available? On thing they can allocate that money towards, is dealing with you. Granted, in your example its a rather out there scenario. However...

      If you look at in house developed software... many times the reason something is developed in house, is because there isnt an off the shelf product ( affordably ) available for you to buy... or with the feature set required for your industry.

      I'll use my company as an example... im a developer/analyst with a specialized die cast company, in a very specialize niche of the marketplace. We have about 6 competitors world wide, of which we are the largest. Now, if I develop software to aid our business process ( which I have ) do I have the slightest bit of incentive to give it away "for free"? Good god no! The people that would directly benefit from my work would be our enemies. Whats the business logic behind that?!?! I tell you one thing... senior management here would be quite extremely pissed at me! Now... I imagine in many cases this scenario exists at any organization larger then a mom and pop shop.

      Just my 0.02$ from the capitalistic world I currently dwell in.

    4. Re:An opinion by amcguinn · · Score: 1

      You have a point in that opening up source can give you a disadvantage by benefiting your competitors, and you may be right in your particular case. However, I think it is a relatively unusual situation. Even in your company, I imagine that not all the software you use is custom industry-specific applications. Probably most of the rest of what you use you buy in, and that's one area you could look at whether you would be better bringing in OSS and customising it to your needs.

      Another question is whether you are in a mature market. In your manufacturing job, it may be that the only way you can increase sales is at the expense of your competitors, but in some markets cutting costs might allow you to increase sales, even if your competitors are benefiting from the same cost reductions, because lowered prices increase the overall size of the market.

      That said, your point explains why open source has been most successful for completely general infrastructure software like Linux and Apache.

    5. Re:An opinion by ichimunki · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What if that software you designed to make your business more efficent is released open source, and your competitors start using it. If you depend on that software as a competitive advantage, then you'd be stupid to give it away to your competitors. But unless you patent the underlying business methods implemented in your software this isn't much of a competitive advantage in the first place. I would certainly hope in your example that your senior managers have something better up their sleeve than your software, since it would be relatively easy for your competitors to hire developers that are as good as you are (or maybe they'd just hire you outright, after all, you have experience).

      --
      I do not have a signature
    6. Re:An opinion by Serapth · · Score: 1

      But unless you patent the underlying business methods implemented in your software this isn't much of a competitive advantage in the first place. Not to toot my own horn too loudly, or that of software developers everywhere... but you would be suprised at just how important a good IT infrastructure is to the bottom line. Now, add in a product that can be bought somewhere else ( aka, you have competitors... ) you take any edge you can have. Does software we right make or break the company? Arguably no... but let me give you an example of how it helps ( and, in this particular case, contributed to a multi million dollar design win ).

      We have to compete directly against similiar manufacturers... each with their own design and manufacturing ability. Typical business process goes... Business Development people make initial contact, Design People prototype, Costing people estimate then quote, Customer yays/neighs/changes spec, repeat... then it goes to design, then finally manufacturing. Thats a fairly typical company I might add. Now... we have end to end systems, that are used to track progress throughout that pipeline. We have faster customer turn around because we can at a 20 foot view, identify where the process has stalled. As a result... we are faster and often more accurate in presenting a quote to a customer. I know, first had, we have recieved jobs based PURELY on this response level... hey, in alot of cases a gizmo's a gizmo's a gizmo. Its efficency, accuracy and public relations that sell your company. Now... would we ever want to give the software, that helps distinguish our company... away? I cant see a reason... other then ... well... being nice.

      I would certainly hope in your example that your senior managers have something better up their sleeve than your software, since it would be relatively easy for your competitors to hire developers that are as good as you are (or maybe they'd just hire you outright, after all, you have experience).

      I hope they do too... our IT infrastructure is just one element of our company... I hope the other parts of our process work as efficently, from costing to manufacturing. That said... I highly doubt that those departments will be giving away their secrets either! As to competitors hiring me ( or anyone else ) your right... that is a risk we take. Hell... we lose engingeers all the time ( CAD / Design people mostly )... its a real problem in many industries. That said, the majority of people here signed a non-competitions agreement that prevents us from working for a direct competitor for one years time of dismisal. That said... those agreements are very often unenforcable. Brain drain is truly a real problem in almost every industry... especially when its a strong job market.

    7. Re:An opinion by Rinikusu · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Duty? Fuck that. Nazi Germany was full of "duty" and look where that got us. The "PATRIOT" act is full of duty and look where we're headed. I'd prefer people to keep their idealogies OUT of my software and trying to impose some sort of "civic duty" upon users of OSS software would be disasterous. A lot of people (including myself) work on OSS because we enjoy it, not because we feel a commitment to any sort of movement or to any sort of "duty".

      If people started making it a DUTY to contribute back to an OSS product, I'll just start adding /* this is my mother fucking contribution to your mother fucking project */ to the code. Think I'll get CVS commit access?

      Also, what happens when the software does everything I need and I don't need to contribute? And what do you mean by contributing?

      Finally, do you really think Enron (or any major international corporation) gives a flying FUCK about their "civic duty"?

      --
      If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
    8. Re:An opinion by BiggerIsBetter · · Score: 1

      Who is "we"?

      I'm an OSS zealot, and I'm not trying to make money off it. I make money off my leet skillz developing software, and use OSS as a tool for that. I've contributed to several projects, as many others have, and it works just fine for me.

      I suspect many of those trying to commercialize it aren't grass roots OSS people. I suspect they are business folks who see free software as something for nothing - something that's ripe for exploitation.

      --
      Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
    9. Re:An opinion by Serapth · · Score: 1

      Even in your company, I imagine that not all the software you use is custom industry-specific applications.

      No, your right here... all the software we use is not industry specific, however that software tends to be off the shelf products. We use a commercial ERP package, and standard tools like Office and Catia/Pro-Engineer. However, for the stuff we have to develop in house, it tends to be always industry specific. Nature of the best I suppose. The generic stuff is already cheaper to buy or get OSS, then to design and support in-house. This is OSS's strength in my mind... generic software. But once thats all been developed, the company specific stuff tends not to be compatible with open source in general.

      Another question is whether you are in a mature market. In your manufacturing job, it may be that the only way you can increase sales is at the expense of your competitors, but in some markets cutting costs might allow you to increase sales, even if your competitors are benefiting from the same cost reductions, because lowered prices increase the overall size of the market. To a great degree this is true, we are in a mostly mature market. We either grow from taking business from our competitors, or from other industries with similar products. At least, our core product does. In alot of cases, their arent many non mature markets left... outside of software anyways. Even software is starting to get fairly saturated. As it stands, im in the auto industry... somewhere between Teir1 and Teir2 suppliers. X number of jobs go to bid, and X number are rewarded. The Tier1/2/3's basically duke it out over who gets the design win. I think alot of industry, especially manufacturing is like that. If it was a growth market, there would be a bit more flexiblity in the way we distinguish ourselves, if that makes sense. However, as it stands... any competitive edge, needs to be protected.

    10. Re:An opinion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The key is educating companies in to believing that it's their (civic?) duty to contribute back to the OSS products they use.

      If you can't convince them its beneficial to their bottom line, than you can forget about convincing them about some silly notion of duty.

      And don't take this sentence to some silly logical extreme, by saying, "and what if it was beneficial to their bottom line to kill babies, would duty matter then?" 'Cos maintaining open source isn't even close to being on the same moral plane.

    11. Re:An opinion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps the business logic is that it's dumb to have enemies when your 'enemies' have common ground with you.

      If you develop software, and they develop software for the same purpose, then you should work together.

      Should every caveman invent his own wheel, and hide it from his neighbour, so he can haul a few carts for his own selfish ends?

      Or should one caveman invent a wheel, educate his peers, and enjoy the wealth as the entire community enters a new age of growth and prosperity?

      It doesn't take a genius; only some control of your own selfishness.

    12. Re:An opinion by zangdesign · · Score: 1

      The service industry is a good idea and one that works well for both large and small scale, but the raw product used to provide the service has to come from somewhere. A large proportion of small businesses can't afford the time and expense of one person dedicated to performing the "civic duty" since that person would require payment on a level equal to or greater than the remainder of the employees. Only in India do programmers work cheaply, not here in the U.S.

      Second, it is necessary to overcome the competition mentality. I understand on some level that we're all in this boat together, but at the same time, we are all competing for a limited customer base. Too many suppliers of a given service or good dilutes the customer base to where no one survives. So, why should I provide free help to my competition? I am trying to beat them in the market, after all.

      This is a simplistic view, but so far, the "provide support" model of OS/FS seems to be rather simplistic, when compared to the complexities of the real world.

      --
      To celebrate the occasion of my 1000th post, I will post no more forever on Slashdot. Goodbye.
    13. Re:An opinion by Arandir · · Score: 1

      I must strenously disagree. Why must software always be treated as some foreign concept that must not follow the business models of other industries? You don't see cybercafe's growing and milling their own wheat, so why should you expect them to code their own software?

      Someone needs to write that software for the cybercafe. But why does it have to be their chef? Surely a professional programmer would create the better software, but if he can't cook, are you going to fire him once he finishes writing it?

      You don't see people assembling their own automobiles. Instead you see a specialized industry devoted to automobiles. You rarely see businesses hiring an automotive technician, but instead you see them going to a specialized shop.

      If you don't get the point, let me translate your opening statement for the automotive industry: "Perhaps we shouldn't be trying to commercialise automobiles. Perhaps we should be trying to commercialise the businesses and products/services which rely on automobiles."

      Yes, I know you're not an economist. If you were, you would realize the answer: let the market decide, since they're the ones who need the software in the first place. In a free market of software there will be room for many different models. Traditionally it has been a "software-as-product" model coupled with restrictive licensing. But that is changing even today. I suspect that a balance will be reached between proprietary and open source software. I don't know what that balance is, but I'm pretty darned sure it isn't going to be zero to one. I also strongly suspect that there will be different business models for different categories of software.

      In the meantime, those of us who WANT to make a living writing free and open source software need more options than just being told to wait on tables at the local cybercafe.

      --
      A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
    14. Re:An opinion by An+Onerous+Coward · · Score: 1

      I must strenously disagree. Why must software always be treated as some foreign concept that must not follow the business models of other industries? You don't see cybercafe's growing and milling their own wheat, so why should you expect them to code their own software?

      So many of the problems we see come about precisely because the software industry tries to mimic the business models of other industries. Faulty anti-piracy "protections," incompatable implementations and software that breaks standards, vendor lock-in, Microsoft. We keep clamoring for the idea that software is fundamentally different from other industries for one simple reason: It is. If you build a useful car, you can't give it to your neighbor down the street without losing your own ability to use it.

      Someone needs to write that software for the cybercafe. But why does it have to be their chef? Surely a professional programmer would create the better software, but if he can't cook, are you going to fire him once he finishes writing it?

      Huh?

      You don't see people assembling their own automobiles. Instead you see a specialized industry devoted to automobiles. You rarely see businesses hiring an automotive technician, but instead you see them going to a specialized shop.

      One difference is, you can't set up a custom auto shop for the price of a $700 computer and a couple of Mandrake CDs. Come to think of it, you couldn't do it if you spent the $700 on car tools either.

      If you don't get the point, let me translate your opening statement for the automotive industry: "Perhaps we shouldn't be trying to commercialise automobiles. Perhaps we should be trying to commercialise the businesses and products/services which rely on automobiles."

      If somebody could make Ford F-150s available to millions just by posting one to an FTP server, that would be a very reasonable analysis.

      Yes, I know you're not an economist. If you were, you would realize the answer: let the market decide, since they're the ones who need the software in the first place.

      I believe he said "an economist," not "Walter E. Williams." Some economists recognize that "letting the market decide" doesn't invariably lead to ideal outcomes.

      In a free market of software there will be room for many different models. Traditionally it has been a "software-as-product" model coupled with restrictive licensing. But that is changing even today. I suspect that a balance will be reached between proprietary and open source software. I don't know what that balance is, but I'm pretty darned sure it isn't going to be zero to one. I also strongly suspect that there will be different business models for different categories of software.

      Thank you for that blinding flash of obvious. Even firebrand Open Source proponents like ESR admit that there are times when it just doesn't make sense to open source an already successful commercial product. For example, probably half of all software would have zero open source value, because it is written to solve a problem that nobody else needs solved.

      Other software (tax prep software, for example) contains data which is expensive and time-consuming to collect. Without being compensated for keeping that software up to date, it just isn't economically viable. But look at the situation more carefully. What is really being sold here? Because the data is what matters, a perfectly valid solution would be to open source the application framework, while keeping the tax code data to yourself. The framework is common, which lowers development costs, and allows the company to focus on doing what is most relevant: making sure that the data they sell is up to date.

      However, if your core competency is wrapping crap data into a pretty interface, I

      --

      You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!

    15. Re:An opinion by ndogg · · Score: 1

      What you talk about isn't civic duty, that's called suppression of freedom. The two are vastly different.

      It may also surprise you to learn that there are many ethical people employed in many major international corporations. We never hear about them because blood-letting is where the most exciting journalism comes from.

      --
      // file: mice.h
      #include "frickin_lasers.h"
  12. Where have I heard this before? by pair-a-noyd · · Score: 0, Funny

    "the challenges in trying to make money from open source software"

    Sounds like SCO tactics to me, eh??

  13. Sure, here you go: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Commercializing Open Source Software

    From Open Source
    Vol. 1, No. 5 - July/August 2003
    by Michael J. Karels
    Many have tried, a few are succeeding, but challenges abound.
    Introduction

    The use of open source software has become increasingly popular in production environments, as well as in research and software development. One obvious attraction is the low cost of acquisition. Commercial software has a higher initial cost, though it usually has advantages such as support and training. A number of business models designed by users and vendors combine open source and commercial software; they use open source as much as possible, adding commercial software as needed. They may use open source software as a central component of a product or service, but use other components to add value, which can then induce customers to pay for the offering (obviously, it is hard to compete with free software on price).

    After a brief overview of the salient differences between open source and commercial software, this article will describe several basic business models in today's marketplace to highlight ways that value is added to open source software and services. For the most part, I will discuss only complete software systems sufficient for some useful purpose, such as network servers, which include an operating system and its associated components, any applications needed for the system's purpose, and necessary local configuration information. Many of the same principles apply to components such as applications and other software packages.
    Open Source Development

    The development process for open source software is often quite different from that of traditional commercial software. In some cases a single author or a small group may develop and distribute a program or system. Successful software often attracts additional developers, however, and larger projects generally require larger teams. These teams tend to be distributed, with participants in different locations and with different affiliations. Some members may contribute their own time; others may be paid to work on the project. Some projects develop infrastructure such as a consortium to coordinate the project; others work with a looser organization. In either case, projects are likely to be organized with less central control than in traditional software development. Some projects may have a strong central figure such as the initial author of the software, but many other projects have "outgrown" central control.

    This less-centralized structure affects the development process for open source projects in several ways:

    * Community support is often available via mailing lists associated with a project. Response ranges from rapid to nonexistent.
    * Projects may have many volunteer contributors. Their abilities and availability can vary significantly.
    * In terms of quality, Darwinism applies. Some software features may be added while the project is still incomplete or experimental. These features may eventually be removed or replaced, or they may be improved over time. The addition of features and other modifications is driven by the interests and wishes of the contributors (including companies that pay staff to extend open source software). As users of the software, these contributors have certain common interests in making the software stable and usable. They may have substantially different uses for the software, however, as well as different ideas about how the software should be engineered and extended. The direction taken by the software developers may be driven by those who have the most time to devote to development or by those with the greatest tolerance for the discussions on mailing lists for the project. When different groups design and implement the various subsystems, their architectures might not have similar or compatible styles.
    * The open source process is inherently social and political. Group leaders spend as much time on organizational matters and conflict resolution a

  14. it's really easy by dcordeiro · · Score: 5, Interesting

    1 - develop a application ( you know how to do it, no ?
    2 - try to "sell it" to as manny organizations as you can (for free).
    3 - Make a contract with those organizations (for maintenance, bugfix, feature add)
    4 - make it available to the world as open source.

    What the organizations get:
    1 - A "free" software. Maybe not the best there is, but sometimes they need months to decide on what to use (because it costs a lot of monney), but they need something now. There comes your program. And believe it or not, most times, your program will be the "final one".
    2 - Direct contact with the developper
    3 - A rapid deployment.
    4 - Low risk (if you don't charge much for your software

    What you get:
    1 - costumers !!!
    2 - flat fee revenue (aka you know what you're going to get in the end of the month)
    3 - going open source enlarges your app "possible customers" universe.
    4 - You can still get lot more customers with onsite or remote support for instalation, bugfixing, feacture adds.

    What the world gets:
    1 - Open Source Software :)
    2 - open source software development backup up with real money.

    I adopted this in the last 3 years, and its working great :)

    1. Re:it's really easy by Moth7 · · Score: 1

      Costumers? Methinx you need the spell chackar from the last story ^_~

    2. Re:it's really easy by Serapth · · Score: 1

      This works, right up until your application becomes ultra popular! Then, do you really think people go to the developer for support anymore? Nope... They go to the corporate umbrela companies that offer support for all your linux applications. They go to the IBM's and Red Hats of the world. To use an example... say when XYZ Corp has problems with a faulty Apache web server, or needs some extension built ( closed source ) do you think they go to the origional developers and contract them in? Maybe... but I would say 9 out of 10 would go to a RedHat type company for their support services.

      On the bright side though, your development is helping to make work and money for others. ;-) How does that make you feel?

    3. Re:it's really easy by Rogerborg · · Score: 1

      Then you go and work for Red Hat. Even if every Apache developer worked directly for Red Hat, they'd still have an incentive to see Apache released as free or open source, because, as you say, they get the support money.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    4. Re:it's really easy by Serapth · · Score: 1

      RedHat and IBM can only employee so many people... ;-)

      I think in the end, its often the individual developer(s) that gain the least from their work. At least in a monetary sense... if your doing it as an act of good will... bravo to you, you have my respect. If your doing it for commerical gain, I have trouble seeing how you wont end up rather bitter at other people making more of your work, then you!

  15. But do YOU charge for support? by turnstyle · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Charing for support is one of the popular ideas abouthow to make money from free software, but have you ever actually tried it?

    The fact is, most support is of the getting-started variety. Do you expect those people to pay for support *before* they have their software working? Or do you help them get set up for free, after which they have little need for support?

    And if somebody writes to ask: "hey, quick question" Do you reply, sorry, but that'll be $5 first.

    --
    Here's what I do: Bitty Browser & Andromeda
    1. Re:But do YOU charge for support? by Sphere1952 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "The fact is, most support is of the getting-started variety. Do you expect those people to pay for support *before* they have their software working? Or do you help them get set up for free, after which they have little need for support?"

      Generally, the software and the support is sold as a package -- so yes, people are expected to pay for support before they have their software working.

      You are confusing Free expression with Free beer.

      --
      Big Brother Bush is doubleplus ungood.
    2. Re:But do YOU charge for support? by turnstyle · · Score: 1
      "Generally, the software and the support is sold as a package -- so yes, people are expected to pay for support before they have their software working.

      You are confusing Free expression with Free beer."

      Perhaps you have been drinking too much Free beer, I'm not confusing anything.

      It seems you might be missing the point. You're a software dev. Do you help people get started for free? If you do, you've lost the main chore that somebody needs support for. And if you refuse to help them get set up for free, they move on to something else.

      An up-front support deal might work for huge and famous projects, but it won't work for most...

      --
      Here's what I do: Bitty Browser & Andromeda
    3. Re:But do YOU charge for support? by Rinikusu · · Score: 1

      Exactly. It's like the IT downsize syndrome.

      Have you heard the stories about the sysadmins whose systems rarely (if ever, and then usually it's hardware failure) crash because they do a lot of preventative maintainence, etc? The higher ups don't think they're doing anything and then give them the boot.

      Same thing here, in a way. You set up their software for free (which is, for the most part, 99% of the support base. Upgrading (if necessary) is another hurdle).
      "OH great!" they say and write you a check..
      NOT.
      If the software is working and they never have to call you, guess who stops receiving support checks? Unless you want to do a pay-per-incident, and then you're back to "Do you answer the question or do you do a "Pay up, sucker" first?" situation. Chances are, you're trying to make a living in support, but some bozo in a basement somewhere else is going to be appalled at the sheer gall someone would have in trying to support something he's willing to give away for free (he gets to abuse his users, but hey, it's not like he's charging for it..
      (On another aside, I've noticed that quite a few "geeks" have some sort of superiority complex (unwarranted). They finally found something they have that everyone else needs (knowledge) and that becomes the excuse to be surly fucktards, even when they're wrong.)
      Let's face it, 99.9% of the idiots on /. who suggest selling SUPPORT have never had to deal with support, have never had to provide it and rely upon it for a living, or have any sort of clue as what support entails. Support (paid for) does not entail shouting "RTFM!" or forwarding emails to /dev/null or calling your users "lus3r5". If you've ever been a telephone technician, you understand that support is like sales: Both fucking suck. Now imagine that your livlihood DEPENDS upon providing that support to people (no just up and quitting, you've now got CONTRACTS, man). You can't just ignore questions like you can on IRC. To reiterate above, you can't just shout "RTFM!", you now have to provide that manual or, hey, guess what? You ARE the manual.

      I sometimes wonder if the people that think support is a viable option (and it is for some) for every project even lives on this planet.

      --
      If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
    4. Re:But do YOU charge for support? by Etyenne · · Score: 2, Informative

      Charing for support is one of the popular ideas abouthow to make money from free software, but have you ever actually tried it?

      Yes. That is how I am currently earning a living. My employer is a Linux integrator. Since mark-up on selling CSS is so ridiculously low, there is no point in generating profit for another business (the software manufacturer); you are better to work toward grabing a bigger chunk of the customer's money by selling service instead of license. In case you wonder, my employer is doing quite well : we are profitable, doubled the staff this year (we have lots of work) and I recently received a bonus.

      The fact is, most support is of the getting-started variety. Do you expect those people to pay for support *before* they have their software working? Or do you help them get set up for free, after which they have little need for support?

      Yes, a big chunk of the support is getting-started (actually, installation/customization). Yes, I expect customer to pay for installtion and customization and, yes, they do. If they would buy some shrink-wraped software, they would have to pay beforehand anyway (and probably pay somebody for the installation/customization too if it is anything non-trivial). You sell them a solution, they buy it. Is there more to it ?

      And if somebody writes to ask: "hey, quick question" Do you reply, sorry, but that'll be $5 first.

      Yes. Actually, you sell them a support contract. Some are incident-based, other are time-based ("hour bank"). I think time-based is preferable for both party, as it let the customer ask many little question for cheap, protect the integrator from nightmarish problem that pay only for an incident (it happen) and eliminiate fight over what constitute a single incident vs. many smaller one.

      What exactly is so unusual about this business model ?

      --
      :wq
    5. Re:But do YOU charge for support? by turnstyle · · Score: 1
      "What exactly is so unusual about this business model?"

      Well, for starters, have you entirely written off the consumer market?

      Your company may indeed benefit by selling services based on work originally done by other developers. IMHO, those developers made a mistake by choosing to give away their work so that your company can profit from it.

      --
      Here's what I do: Bitty Browser & Andromeda
    6. Re:But do YOU charge for support? by Etyenne · · Score: 1

      Well, for starters, have you entirely written off the consumer market?

      Granted. I personnally don't think it is an interesting market anyway. If you plan on doing money selling software to the consumer market, you are in for a rough ride considering how the market is saturated.

      However, I am sure it is possible to adapt the model to fit the consumer market. I don't have access to Transgaming financial report, but they seem to be doing ok selling a service to the consumer market while contributing all their work to OSS. More example could probably be found.

      Your company may indeed benefit by selling services based on work originally done by other developers. IMHO, those developers made a mistake by choosing to give away their work so that your company can profit from it.

      Why ?

      Most of the change I make to OSS goes back into it, ripe for my competitor to use. I contribute back to OSS for pragmatic reason (forward compatibility, maintainability) but the result is the same : people can make use of my work, for free. I use other people's work, for free. Everybody benefit; that's how OSS have been doing for the past few decades.

      --
      :wq
    7. Re:But do YOU charge for support? by daniel_yokomiso · · Score: 1

      No, but the SmartEiffel team charges. They have an open mailinglist and answer doubts and bug reports, but they don't offer access to their CVS tree, just the releases. So if you want a bug fix before their next release you have to pay for it. This doesn't pay the project, but the money helps them.

      --
      Disclaimer: If I disagree with you I'm probably trolling...
    8. Re:But do YOU charge for support? by Arandir · · Score: 1

      Most of the change I make to OSS goes back into it

      And how much of the money you make goes into the hands of the original developer? After all, your bug fix doesn't put food on their table.

      --
      A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
    9. Re:But do YOU charge for support? by Etyenne · · Score: 1

      And how much of the money you make goes into the hands of the original developer? After all, your bug fix doesn't put food on their table.

      No, but they are welcome to do just as I do and use my work (or, more precisely, our collective work) to earn a living.

      --
      :wq
    10. Re:But do YOU charge for support? by Arandir · · Score: 1

      That goes without saying. But is there really room in the Linux integration market for each and every one of the thousands upon thousands of developers who contributed to the software you use? I seriously doubt it. The fact remains that saying "I give back" doesn't feed the people who do most of the work.

      --
      A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
    11. Re:But do YOU charge for support? by donnz · · Score: 1

      Christ mate, someone likes you!

      Anyway, to answer the question - yes. We get paid to support OSS servers, VPNs websites and applications. Sometimes we have developed these applications which themselves are "open sourced" (Axyl) and are used as a solution to propose to our clients.

      Sometimes we use a specific tool (like Lucene) which we want an enhancement made to. We get our developers to enhance it and pass the code back to the project. Everyone benefits, including our customer.

      So, your model works for you - great, but just because your imagination is limited don't assume otherss can't be successful with a different model.

      --
      -- Free software on every PC on every desk
  16. Do what Apple does, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Keep the core of the OS opensource, and make a really nice GUI that closed, and is really what your paying for. Now if Apple made a nice GUI for Linux, and sold it, now that would be awsome, but it would jeprodize their PPC sales.

  17. Costumers? by EnglishTim · · Score: 3, Funny

    I've got all the fancy dress I need already, thanks.

  18. A reasonable open source business model by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've always thought that ghostscript had a neat idea in that the latest version is released under a different license and older versions are GPL'd. Why not charge for the most recent version with the newest features and release old versions with lesser functionality than the current as free and maybe even in the public domain. If there's not money to be made on old outdated software, why not release it free and open source? Sure, you might make a few less dollars, but you'll make yourself a lot of new customers in the process, too. I know there's always shareware, but it tends to be severely crippled and has a 30 day time limit on it. The point is, charge for the newest major features, and release older and fully funtional versions to the public free and open sourced.

  19. Re:Who is he to talk - BSD is a failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    The *BSD community has weathered tough times before, but many are saying this is the final blow. The unanimous opinion among industry observers, networking experts and end users is that BSD has no future. Irrational optimism has given way to a painful acceptance among developers and users alike. As local *BSD user groups hold their final meetings in the coming months, the atmosphere is expected to be one of wistful nostalgia instead of the aggressive advocacy which once characterized the community. Fingers are pointing in every direction for *BSD's spectacular failure. Everything from BSD's i386 origins to the BSD licensing scheme is taking the blame for the crash.

    The consequences of *BSD's death are going to be far-reaching. BSD Mall and FreeBSD Mall, with *BSD at the center of their value proposition, will doubtless be dragged down along with *BSD itself. Amazon is strapped with close to US $3 million in now-worthless *BSD inventory. *BSD consultants, hosting providers and service providers will also be forced to either adapt or cease operations. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict *BSD's future. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim.

    Fact: *BSD is dying

  20. There's money to be found by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Red Hat makes it's money from support from Corporations, it may have trouble turning a profit right now, but when the marketshare expands even more, then I don't think they have much trouble. Red Hat has a good buissness model, their pricing scheme maybe a little shaky but I think it will change. Perhaps what they should do, is have releases every two years instead of one, support both releases, then in another two years drop support for the old one. That way you'll get a good four years out of a product. I'm not a market expert, but I could work. Its better than a one-year product life.

    1. Re:There's money to be found by Zimm · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Red Hat makes it's money from support from Corporations, it may have trouble turning a profit right now, but when the marketshare expands even more, then I don't think they have much trouble.

      Yes but red hat makes their money off of other peoples work. In fact they are part of the problem, the coders that worte the software contained in the Red hat Dist have to compete now with red hat for "services", and redhat didn't have to write the software. Red hat and the other distrubutions are examples of free loaders, they do no or very little work, and they suck up the service contracts that would have gone to the coders of the individual projects.

      My feelings are that if you want to make money on software, don't release it open source. Many times you just add a little bit to an existing open source project any way, and don't care to make money off of that small amount of work. When lots of people add bit and pieces then you have a big project.

    2. Re:There's money to be found by Lodragandraoidh · · Score: 1

      Hold on now - many programmers (myself included) don't have the time or inclination to provide service on a global basis; Red Hat does, and my hat is off to them for filling that niche that many of us can't or won't fill.

      Time is precious, and programmers should be able to spend it how they like - without being required to maintain what they build, if they so choose.

      --

      Lodragan Draoidh
      The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
    3. Re:There's money to be found by Zimm · · Score: 1
      Hold on now - many programmers (myself included) don't have the time or inclination to provide service on a global basis; Red Hat does, and my hat is off to them for filling that niche that many of us can't or won't fill.

      That's not my point. My point is that if someone writes software and releases it open source expecting to sell their services, they will be in for a big suprise if Red Hat Bundles it and sells their own service contract for that software. The writer of the software has to compete for service contracts with others that didn't have to bear the cost of building it.

    4. Re:There's money to be found by Lodragandraoidh · · Score: 1

      What tangible costs are there, really, to building an application?

      I already own the development boxes; I would anyway regardless of if I build apps or simply run prime number and SETI runs with them in a beowulf cluster.
      I spent some time; I would have been doing something on my computer anyway, as well. I probably would have built the software anyway, because most of my projects usually scratch some itch that I have that no one else has come up with a solution for.
      I am not shrink wrapping the apps or otherwise incurring costs as a result of marketing.

      So, beyond the initial investment in my time, what am I missing out on, really? Should RedHat give me a cut of their business because I have an app in their distro? What about RedHat's investment in capital equipment to run their business and make a profit?

      I don't need any additional income to survive - so I don't perceive a loss, as you do. Now if I had spent additional money to buy equipment, and paid programmers to build the application, and spent money on advertising and distribution - then I might think differently. However, why would I use a GPL business model if I expected a return on invested capital? I shouldn't, unless I have enough mass and resources to reach a mass market - like Redhat, IBM and others are doing successfully.

      The really great thing about open source and free software is that both the small operation and the big guys can coexist; however, the return on investment is going to be different for each one. The little guy - in most cases only part of a larger group of part time hackers - is only going to be able to leverage so much business directly from a particular application; his specialization, while important, is only a small piece of the total suite of applications a customer uses, and thus his 'cut', as a result is only a percentage of the total.

      The little guy needs to either make peace with that, or expand his capabilities to encompass other aspects - such as 'personalization', integration, or peripheral services which are desired by paying customers that the big guys don't provide. Just as in any market, if you intend on entering an established market and go up against a resource rich rival, you will lose (provided you attempt to do this alone). Again, if you want to specialize in one narrow aspect, you must assume your return on the investment will be minimal, particularly if the area you specialize in is not particularly mission critical, or filled with deep magic.

      Flexibility is also critical. If a mass market errupts in an unknown area that you specialize in, you must move fast to fill the vacuume. This means you will need to hire staff, and spend large amounts of capital to meet the demand - impossible for a single person to do alone (although given that something is not on the big guy's radar possible to pull off with the right people beside you and liquid assets - still not a sure bet). From your thesis, however, you seem to want to go it alone, so this option doesn't really apply anyway.

      A better bet is to be flexible enough to maintain a niche market(s) that is relatively profitable, yet not big enough for the big guys to bother with. Again, this comes down to specializing in something that is very rare, yet desired, or, diversifying into several not so rare, yet untapped smaller markets. Sometimes you can't pick exactly what you want to do. That is just the breaks. Some skills are in more demand than others. If you happened to pick skills that have a glut of IT workers, or skills that are not in demand (how many professional Pascal programmer positions have you seen in the papers lately?), then tough luck. If you don't want to learn new skills, then you better dang well be the best X there ever was to surmount the odds. Trying to find a solution to your situation is infinitely more useful than crying about something that will not change so you don't have to struggle.

      Life is full of struggles to be overcome. We can refuse to deal with it, or we can approach it with a positive attitude, maturity, and be an example of grace under pressure. How do you want to be seen? How do you want to see yourself?

      --

      Lodragan Draoidh
      The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
    5. Re:There's money to be found by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of Redhats revenue comes from selling per-seat licenses to their Redhat advance server.

      Same businessmodel as Microsoft.

  21. GPL *can* make money by varjag · · Score: 5, Informative

    > But because of things like the GPL, they've effectivly shot themselves in the foot.

    If you dare to read the article, you'll find an amazing way of making money off GPL (look for 'Dual Licensing').

    GPL requires the derived work sources to be published under the same license, which is unacceptable to many businesses. However, one can always bargain with author for separate license for their specific project.

    Anecdotal evidence: I was involved in a proprietary project where we needed a very specific functionality. The opensource library doing just what we needed was there, but licensed under the terms of GPL. The contact with author revealed that he is perfectly willing to relicense it for us for a nice amount of $35000. And it really was an OK price because reimplementing the necessary functionality from scratch would cost the company considerably more, and we wouldn't fit into the timeframe anyway.

    --
    Lisp is the Tengwar of programming languages.
    1. Re:GPL *can* make money by Rogerborg · · Score: 1, Redundant

      Anecdotal evidence: I was involved in a proprietary project where we were using a GPL app (ezsetup). As part of creating a Windows CE installer, it links a GPL'd self extractor stub against your application in a single exe. We were uncomfortable with this and offered the author money for a non-GPL binary license, i.e. just a license to use a non-GPL version of the exe, not any rights over the source.

      He refused.

      More specifically, he couldn't understand our problem. "You're OK to use it under the GPL," he said, clearly puzzled. Well, sure, until he, or his widow, or estate, sold the rights to SCO or Generic EvilCorp or Mattel and they started asking why everyone using it wasn't GPL licensing their "derivative versions". We simply could not make him understand that we'd rather pay him money than dilute our IP portfolio by taking the risk.

      The outcome was that we wrote our own app, and ezsetup guy didn't get any reward for his efforts. Perhaps that's unusual, but it gave me a very bad impression of the GPL developers. He put principle over pragmatism, which would be a fine thing if his principle wasn't blinding him to the problems with the license that he was putting so much faith in. Sad.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    2. Re:GPL *can* make money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, the author didn't make any money from the GPL after all. He made money from the separately negotiated, closed-source license.

      The dual license has promptly defeated the purpose of the GPL. Users of your code can no longer obtain the source if they find it desirable or necessary. Modifications to the original authors code made by you will not be returned to the community of users for all.

      At best, the GPLed version in this scenario is just advertising. But you're not making money with it, you're making money from the closed license. And every user that can tolerate the GPL terms instead of your closed-source terms is a lost sale. Advertising costs, one way or the other.

    3. Re:GPL *can* make money by greggman · · Score: 1

      When are you guys going to get it through your head, Dual licensing DOESN'T WORK!

      Why? Because the whole point of open source is that lots of developers can contribute. But, once they do, you don't have permission to release the version with all the cool new features and bug fixes contributed by all those other coders under some other license of your choosing.

      The only version you can sell is the original, buggy, less featured version. The one for which you are the sole contributor. Who would want that?

      In other words, pick one license or the other. They don't mix!

    4. Re:GPL *can* make money by Arandir · · Score: 1

      Dual copyleft/proprietary licensing may work for development libraries (Qt, Sleepycat), but I don't know of one example anywhere of it working for end-user software.

      As a developer, the GPL says that everything I write using a GPL library is a derivative work. I either buy the proprietary license or I am forced to GPL everything I create. But as a user, no images I create are derivative of GIMP, no emails I send are derivative of Evolution, and no documents I create are derivative of AbiWord.

      --
      A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
    5. Re:GPL *can* make money by cranos · · Score: 1

      So let me get this straight. You went ahead and developed an app using a gpl'd component and then asked the author for non-GPL license?

      Was this something that should have been tackled before development began or when the original idea of using the gpl'd app was raised?

      I don't think the problem lies with the developer on this one. He obviously released it under the GPL for a reason and didn't want the hassle of forking the licensing. So he put his principles first instead of the almighty dollar, the problem with this is what exactly? We see so many examples of people doing the exact opposite that it is refreshing to see someone actually stand up for what they believe in.

      I think the sad thing is that you seem to believe that he should have taken the money and run instead of standing up for what he believes in because it caused you problems. Boo Hoo.

    6. Re:GPL *can* make money by ndogg · · Score: 1

      The author doesn't have to offer his software under a closed license to a customer, just a different license that works for the customer. It would be up to the author and the customer as to whether or not the customer has access to the source code.

      Authors are allowed to put any licensing they want on their software. I'm sure there are many commercial applications that allow their customers access to the source code, but no one else. I don't know of any off hand, but it wouldn't surprise me.

      --
      // file: mice.h
      #include "frickin_lasers.h"
    7. Re:GPL *can* make money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read it again. ezsetup is an installer application, I presume that to enable a single install (.exe) file the author of ezsetup embeds the application archive within the ezsetup executable.

      However there is no practical difference between linking and embedding. The issue of linking is central to the GPL, if you link with a GPL file then your app must also be GPL. In this case the poster felt that regardless of the intentions of the ezsetup author(who doesn't appear to require that the finished app is GPL) there was a gray area he was not prepared to enter.

      Note that if ezsetup had used 2 files instead, one of them ezsetup.exe and another file containing the application archive, the issue would have been cut and dry - no linking therefore said application is not subject to the GPL.

    8. Re:GPL *can* make money by varjag · · Score: 1

      The origial point was that one can't make money off a project if it GPLed. This is obviously doesn't holds.

      There *are* viable, successful projects under GPL that do dual licensing. And the community still benefits from their existance.

      > Modifications to the original authors code made by you will not be returned to the community of users for all.

      I maintain that decent monetary compensation to the author will do more good to the life of a project than several minor application-specific tweaks.

      --
      Lisp is the Tengwar of programming languages.
    9. Re:GPL *can* make money by varjag · · Score: 1

      > Dual copyleft/proprietary licensing may work for development libraries (Qt, Sleepycat), but I don't know of one example anywhere of it working for end-user software.

      Your point is valid, dual licensing is not the ultimate answer. However, the point was that one can't earn off a GPLed project. I think it is safe to agree that that was too broad statement.

      --
      Lisp is the Tengwar of programming languages.
    10. Re:GPL *can* make money by varjag · · Score: 1

      > ..the whole point of open source is that lots of developers can contribute.

      In the case I mentioned, contibutions were maintained as separate packages. Moreover, it was possible to purchase a license for some of them as well (although we didn't need them).

      > The only version you can sell is the original, buggy, less featured version.

      The core part was maintained by a sigle author (in part because it was really large and sophisticated piece of work). I'd say that your scenario is certainly possible, although I doubt it is too widespread.

      --
      Lisp is the Tengwar of programming languages.
    11. Re:GPL *can* make money by Rogerborg · · Score: 1

      > So let me get this straight. You went ahead and developed an app using a gpl'd component and then asked the author for non-GPL license?

      It's an unusual situation. ezsetup creates a single click Windows installer exe out of a compressed Win CE .cab file. It does this by linking a GPLd self extractor/decompressor stub with the .cab file into a single exe. The ezsetup author never intended for this to mean that the WinCE app had to be GPL licensed, and he told us so explicitely when we asked if we could buy a binary non-GPL license for ezsetup.

      The issue is whether this is a derivative work of the self extractor stub, or whether it's a simple aggregation. We'd initially assumed that it was an aggregation, but then we took a closer look at the GPL wording and the way that ezsetup works, and suddenly weren't so sure. At the moment, it's not a problem, because the ezsetup author isn't bothered. But how do we know that at some point, he won't sell rights to the ezsetup source to Microsoft, or SCO, or Generic Evilcorp, who will then come chasing everyone using it claiming that we're breaching their copy rights by using it to release non-GPL products, and offering to sell us a non-GPL version of ezsetup to make the problem go away.

      By the way, thanks for leaping to the wrong conclusion based on an incomplete knowledge or understanding of the issues. That's about what I've come to expect from the typical GPL advocate.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    12. Re:GPL *can* make money by cranos · · Score: 1

      Hey no problem, I leapt to a conclusion based on what you had posted, unfortunately I do not have the ability to read your mind nor do I have the time to track down everybody involved with the process and grill them for hours on end.

      I still stand by my original statement, this is something that should have been investigated before development began on the installer. Obviously the author had only intended for his app to be GPLd and act as a wrapper around the app to be installed. After having a look at what the guy says on his page, thats all it is, a wrapper that contains your files plus a couple of scripts to run the install process, nothing more. Unless you are statically linking to the actual objects within the application itself, I do not see the problem.

  22. OSS Support == $Money$ - I wish !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This naive argument is always trotted out as a way to make OSS pay.

    (however here are the) FACTS:-

    Unless you are providing a significant chunk of software that is going to be mission critical to large corporations or other institutions, your customers will not give a flying fuck about 'support' and 'custom enhancements'.

    They just want 'FREE' (as in 'PLEASE FEEL FREE TO WORK YOUR ASS OFF BUT DON'T EXPECT ME TO PAY YOU') software.

    If anyone here on /. has made OSS work in a business context, and is making a living out of it then PLEASE SHARE!

    1. Re:OSS Support == $Money$ - I wish !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's simple, as long as you're not actually expecting to be a programmer as your main job. My main job is being a sysadmin. I run boxes and networks.

      In the course of doing my main job, I write programs to solve various problems. They didn't hire a programmer, but they did want someone that can solve their problems. If that means writing a program (as opposed to buying one), so be it.

      By keeping me around as a contractor/consultant, they get to use my creations and have things added that specifically address their needs. If I leave, they become just another unpaying customer that gets handled if I feel like it.

      I also write code for other free software projects and haven't made a cent off any of that. I don't mind, since my main job pays enough to pay my basic expenses.

  23. the irony of it all is that . . . . by kraksmoka · · Score: 2, Interesting
    selling free software is necessary solely from the standpoint of mainstream acceptance. i think that's fine by the way, but i hope you all get the idea.

    people have been trained to do two things with software, purchase and steal. i cannot begin to tell you how many requests i get for office or windows cd's from people who don't wish to pay for it. fact is, mainstream computarded L-users feel better when they've shelled something out for the software, even if it is free. like carnies, we have to take advantage of the marks, because they ask for it, and wouldn't be entertained otherwise.

    beyond that, i wish that lycoris would put OO.O on their distro, just so i could hand out disks of their stuff and not tell anyone what they're getting, let them use the stuff and be happy, like the most illiterate of my clients who get free software every time they ask for a crack.

    --
    "You never want a serious crisis to go to waste." - Rahm Emanuel
  24. One slight problem.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    What if someone goes and releases your old software, with added functionality, as a derivative work and starts making a profit off of it? It could be a bad business decision to do so. That's one place where shared source (Microsoft's license) gets it right. It's not really open source, but you still can see the code you're running. Perhaps allow it to be released non-commercially, but not sold for a profit. You can't just release it open, though, most likely. Perhaps the GPL would work here, but I think restricting commercial derivative works is certainly necessary to make it possible.

    1. Re:One slight problem.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The derived work is GPL, however, so you get to incorporate the changes (as long as you don't copy the code) into your project again.

      Or you can just package their version, brand it as your own, and sell two products.

      Why did your competitors do this?

  25. Free Software Businesses are viable by Robert+Osfield · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I am stunned that people of some many are skeptical on how FSB's coud work. They can and do work very well.

    I have been successfully running my own Free Software Business for the past 2 1/2 years. Every quater I hit or exceed my targets, and comfortably in profit - might not be rich but certainly have perfectly viable long term business.

    My company provides consultancy, support and training ontop of the open source project I lead. The key to success is that the project competes well in terms of functionality and robustness with equivilant commericial products, and that you provide the services that the market requires ontop of that product.

    FSB's really are little different than conventional companies, if you provide and product or service that the market want at a price that is reasonable for the customer, yet profitable to provide, then you're in business. It really is very simple. Robert Osfield.

    1. Re:Free Software Businesses are viable by lordcorusa · · Score: 1

      So what Free Software do you make? What market do you compete in? What is the name of your company? Web site? What real business owner can resist a little free publicity?

      Note than I am only half-heartedly calling your bluff. I am really hoping that you aren't. I prefer Free Software, but the overwhelming majority of software companies (and by extension job oppurtunities) I see could not exist on service and support contracts alone. It is always nice to hear the specifics of a Free Software business success story, not generalities. Perhaps we might be able to learn from your example.

      --
      The preceding comments reflect the author's personal opinion and are public domain, unless explicitly stated otherwise.
    2. Re:Free Software Businesses are viable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, He gave you his name, just Google it!

      http://openscenegraph.sourceforge.net/introducti on /

      Anonymous Coward

    3. Re:Free Software Businesses are viable by Robert+Osfield · · Score: 3, Informative
      > So what Free Software do you make?

      The OpenScenGraph - its an open source scene graph, which takes an OO approach to doing real-time computer graphics.

      >What market do you compete in?

      The main markets are Visual Simulation, Virtual Reality, Games and Scientific Visualization.

      > What is the name of your company?

      OpenSceneGraph Professional Services, based in Scotland.

      > Web site?

      http:://www.openscenegraph.org

      The is also http://www.andesegineering.com which is a partner company that also provide services ontop of the OpenSceneGraph and related projects. Andes Engineering has now been in business for over two years, based in California.

      > I prefer Free Software, but the overwhelming majority of software companies (and by extension job oppurtunities) I see could not exist on service and support contracts alone.

      I believe the sweet spot for open source is in the realm of OS's and middleware. Making money in these areas with commericial products is very difficult (unless you have a stranglehold monolopy) and doesn't provide as good a service to end users - who are often developers themselves. Developers using middleware & components of the OS have the most to gain from access to the source, and often have the skills to put effort back into the OS/middleware. So both the Open Source developer and user/developer have something to gain. The gains for the Open Source developer is that they can achieve much more with a smaller sized team, that in turn requires less of a revenue stream then need to bring in to make things viable.

      I see the sweet spot for being closed source end user applications, especially specialist applications. In these areas the Open source project itself provide little more than lower cost and the being non proprietary, the source ain't much use to 99.9% of users. Also 99.9% of users have none of the skills to put back into he product. Here the Open Source user has much less to gain from being open sourced. Whereas the closed source developer has the opportunity for collecting greater revenues which in turn support developers, testers etc. to do the job of the developing the product.

      Robert Osfield

    4. Re:Free Software Businesses are viable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I see the sweet spot for being closed source end user applications, especially specialist applications. In these areas the Open source project itself provide little more than lower cost and the being non proprietary, the source ain't much use to 99.9% of users. Also 99.9% of users have none of the skills to put back into he product. Here the Open Source user has much less to gain from being open sourced.

      Robert, thanks for sharing your experience. Glad to see that you are able to make a living doing it Open Source, although I'm skeptical that it's the right model for everyone.

      But I'm a little confused, especially by that last paragraph.

      1) Are you saying that your company is able to generate revenues from closed source software in addition to your clients who need customization?

      2) In general, do you find that many (or any) people will contribute improvements to your source code and also give you headache (mischief makers who might introduce a backdoor or something that will intentionally wreck hard drives, etc)? The script-kiddies mentality comes to mind: immature teenagers who just want cause trouble for no apparent reason and sprinkle forums with obscenities.

      3) Finally, would it not be better (from your revenue generation standpoint) just to offer the closed source apps? After your software has reached a certain point of maturity, is it not desireable to drop the Open Source license and adopt completely 100% closed source?

    5. Re:Free Software Businesses are viable by Robert+Osfield · · Score: 1

      Actually I was trying to say I believe close source more viable for general end user application development than open source is. So I certainly don't believe open source development is for everyone. However, using open souce middleware certainly makes alot of sense for most software development companies. Once viable open source middleware becomes available I think it will eclipse close source middleware pretty quickly. As for the community and contributions, about half our source code base is contributed, the community are all mature, and often very skilled. Glad to say the single to noise ratio is general very high. There is more money is closed source apps, so perhaps at later date I might venture into developing end user apps ontop the OSG. Right now my focus on the getting the core library to 1.0 and provide consultancy and support ontop the libray. Since this business model is viable I'm more than happy to stick with a model I know that works and is growing in momentum. Robert.

    6. Re:Free Software Businesses are viable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As for the community and contributions, about half our source code base is contributed, the community are all mature, and often very skilled. Glad to say the single to noise ratio is general very high.

      Interesting! Well, thanks for replying to my questions.

    7. Re:Free Software Businesses are viable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Extremely few open source projects have any possibility to sell service or support on the side.

      You may have a project there it works but most don't.

  26. Re:It's heresy!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Good point and wittly put.

    Sadly the braindead mods here can't tell the difference between an ironic comment and trolling.

  27. Where's the hype? by plcurechax · · Score: 1

    This is a terrible slashdot article, no hype, no good in-jokes, no mindless "____ is the next big thing".

    Next you'll expect slashdot readers to actually learn something about the history of computing, and the basics of computer science, and information technology.

  28. DonationWare by JohnGrahamCumming · · Score: 1

    POPFile is open-source donationware, if you like it you can send me money, and lots of people do.

    It's the best of the shareware and open-source models combined. POPFile is released under the GPL so it's free as in speech software and free as in beer. But people who appreciate POPFile can send in donations.

    John.

  29. Open source != free by master_p · · Score: 1

    There are many companies that sell their source along with their product. Qt comes to mind. Qt is open, in the sense that the source can be viewed and compiled by the client, but it's not free. Trolltech can benefit from bug reports sent in by clients, but the client can't modify and release the source(at least with the commercial licence).

    So, open source can be sold. Whether free software can make money, that's another story all together.

    1. Re:Open source != free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, because Trolltech has a product that is a tool for building other products, they are in a special position.

      Anyone using their product to write free software is fine with the free version.

      Anyone using their product to write commercial software has to pay them.

      I don't know how well Trolltech is doing, but I wish them the best of luck!

  30. So... by poptones · · Score: 1
    I take it you don't contribute ANY work to ANY open source projects?

    I choose to affect change by passing on the money. By devaluing things others charge money for, you affect change by making it harder for the establishment to compete. Example: If Wal-Mart wants to use your database software on their network you have about a snowball's chance of even finding out about it, much less making them pay. But if everyone has access to that same code, then Wal-Mart has that much less of an advantage in the marketplace.

    1. Re:So... by turnstyle · · Score: 4, Insightful
      "I choose to affect change by passing on the money. By devaluing things others charge money for, you affect change by making it harder for the establishment to compete."

      The change you affect by passing on money is the marginalization of your voice. If instead you took that money and gave all of it to support some cause that you may believe in, you'd be affecting a lot more change.

      And by devaluing things others charge for, you may indeed make it harder for the establishment to compete, but you also make it harder for independents too.

      --
      Here's what I do: Bitty Browser & Andromeda
  31. ObSCOJoke by Sven+Tuerpe · · Score: 3, Funny

    Making money out of open source software is so simple:

    1. Pick a project
    2. Claim that it contains your intellectual property
    3. Give a PPT presentation in Greek
    4. ???
    5. Profit!
    --
    http://erichsieht.wordpress.com/category/english/
  32. Possible Solution? by richcoder · · Score: 1

    Perhaps a donation system such as the one found at SourceSupport could help spur on open source development.

  33. Re:Let me get this right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, it made me laugh anyway!

    Sadly, you are now deemed a TROLL due to your singular inability to ally with the 'correct' side of this argument ;)

  34. it's possible by cr@ckwhore · · Score: 3, Informative

    IMHO, it is possible to make money with open source software. The secret is coming to the realization that you aren't going to make any money by packaging the software and selling it in boxes. OSS software is available for FREE, so why would a customer pay for it in box when he/she can get it for free elsewhere? Obvious point, I know.

    So, how does one make money with OSS? Services. Granted, incorporating and building paid services around your open source software may not be simple in all cases, it can be applied very well to certain types of open source software.

    For example, lets look at the CMS arena... lets say that I have a OSS CMS called "Cow". I make Cow available for FREE to anyone that wants it. BUT... Cow, being the sophisticated piece of software that it is, requires a web server with certain dependencies. Some people will be able to setup Cow and run it on their own web servers and some won't. There's the opportunity for service #1... specialized hosting for the Cow CMS. You can charge $$ for specialized hosting of Cow CMS based websites.

    Since our fictional CMS (Cow) would be modular, you as the developer could make highly advanced and highly functional modules available to end users for $$. Perhaps they need a eCommerce module with some advanced capabilities. Perhaps they need a specialized payment gateway. There's opportunity #2.

    Lets say that Cow CMS has grabbed the attention of a few big web sites. Now, you have some real commercial entities showing interest in the CMS. Opportunity #3 ... consulting. offer consulting services (for $$) to guide customers through custom module development, implementation, design, etc. Perhaps you could even offer high level technical support for $$ -- opportunity #4. Web design services for the Cow CMS -- opportunity #5.

    See, I think it is possible to make $$ with open source software by adding services of real value around the software.

    A few random thoughts for the "services approach":
    1. The software has to be good and have at least the majority of functionality of commercial competitors.

    2. The software should be able to run on the windows platform.

    3. The UI should be of commercial quality.

    4. Not every type of OSS software will lend itself well to the "paid services" approach. CMSs are a good example, as would be any type of specialized vertical market software, such as Medical Practice Management systems.

    5. You need to understand your market! Understanding your market means you'll understand which services would be of real value.

    --
    Skiers and Riders -- http://www.snowjournal.com
    1. Re:it's possible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and what stops me from taking your open source software and offering the same services but charging 10% less? Potentially any customer you've ever helped setup now has the expertise to run you out of business.

  35. Where the money is... by dentar · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The money is in integrating the things and making it work for people.

    The other money is in CUSTOMIZING. People have a demand for stuff that works only for their situation, and demands an in-person presence that indians (in india, that is) cannot satisfy.

    There's not a huge profit margin in selling commercial packages anyway, but about the same amount of time is spent making them work. SELL YOUR TIME!

    (Don't buy the commercial vendors "TCO" arguments..)

    Most of my clients are all too happy to get away from "license" payments. They want to spend money for actual value, and a "license" isn't an actual value, other than for the "privilege" of running a software package.

    --
    -- I am. Therefore, I think!
  36. Customers are *smart*! by Per+Abrahamsen · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They don't pay for anything they can get for free.

    I make money, not on support, but on development of extensions to some very specialized software which is the "best of breed" in its limited area. My customers aren't traditionel end-users, but either research institutions or consulting businesses who use my software for projects for their clients.

    There are plenty of free-software business models, and the article does a good job of summrizing them, but there is no business model (based on free software or not) that guarentee you money.

    For an honest busniness to be succesful you need to provide your customers with a value that is worth the price, the price need to be lower than what your competition can offer, and your customers need to be aware of both those facts. If that is true, your business will thrive, if not, forget it. Whether it is based on free software ot not is irrelevant.

    1. Re:Customers are *smart*! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Per,

      My customers are in the main utterly fucking dumb and greedy (I'm talking now about some very, very big corps with three-letter names here).

      If they were "smart" then they would realize the value of support, pro quality doc and support et al - but the fact is that overwhelmingly, they do not give a rat's ass.

      It's all very well for you, with your...

      "very specialized software which is the "best of breed" in its limited area" ...type of stuff, but for the mainstream forget it.

      Anyway Per, what is that "limited area" exactly?

    2. Re:Customers are *smart*! by Per+Abrahamsen · · Score: 1

      If you believe your customers are stupid, you probably shouldn't waste time trying to deliver them anything of value. Either you assume your customers are smart, and when they fail to buy your product, find an explanation that build on that assumption. Or you assume they are stupid, and build your business on that.

      The field I work in is simulating the environmental impact of agriculture, especially nitrogen leaching.

  37. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  38. It's really *too* easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    What you get:

    1 - costumers !!!



    It's true. Open Source advocates can't even spell customers.

  39. RT*M by Kakurenbo+Shogun · · Score: 1

    I guess you didn't check my site, because I HAVE documented the installation process, and it is not difficult. But in a world where some computer users struggle to find the switch to turn their computer on, some webmasters are going to need help setting up a script. Some of them could probably figure it out themselves, but either would rather pay then take the time, or lacking any experience with scripts, just don't have the confidence to try.

    --
    Convert RSS to HTML - integrate webfeeds into your website
  40. mainstream = lusers by iread · · Score: 1

    when you say mainstream acceptance, it seems you're really talking about end-users and open source being embraced on the desktop. desktop users often expect a certain functionality and polish from software they use regularly. it's tough for free software to compete. . .but nonetheless the idea has caught on in the sense

    1. Re:mainstream = lusers by kraksmoka · · Score: 1
      sure, they are l-users. but those computarded jokers often have decision making authority beyond not only their intelligence, but beyond what any moron should control. this is a symtom of the information age's speed and thrust into every day life.

      think about cdw's fred commercial with the guy who wants the badass box. he says (this might b a paraphrase), "i don't know anything about computers, but i want a better one than smith has". software has hit that point, "i don't know what's up or down or if i could find my ass inside a paper bag, but i want something as good as or better than windows" that's what the mainstream is looking for.

      --
      "You never want a serious crisis to go to waste." - Rahm Emanuel
  41. Commercializing OpenSourceSoftware... by Bartmoss · · Score: 1

    Claim IP infringement, sell antidote licenses.

    Why are you looking at me like that? :D

  42. Incremental progress vs. clean sheet art by Per+Abrahamsen · · Score: 1

    I think you need to distinguish between two different kind of artefacts. One kind is like the movies themselves each expression is new. Very little actual footage is shared between two movies. The other is more like the art of making movies, where ideas and knowledge about how to make a movie and what works is constantly refined and passed on.

    Now what is software most similar to? Movies, or the art of making movies?

    Some software is clearly similar to movies, this is especially true for many modern games. In general, you want a new game to be a totally new expression, even if the concept are similar.

    However, for other software the user prefer stability and incremental refinement over revolutionary new expressions. I believe the desktop is one of them, very few ordinary users are happy when the new version of ms-windows look different from the old.

    The first kind of artefacts is difficult to finance without a distribution monopol (i.e. as free software or free movies or whatever), because the initial investment is so high. But the second kind lend itself perfectly to the free software approach, as each stepwise refinement has a manageable cost.

    This is why I believe free software will eventually win the desktop.

  43. Open Source, Licensed using... by PzyCrow · · Score: 1

    Can it be done? Would it be good? If you'd license your software open source, but request a license fee for running the compiled version?

  44. jeprodize by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    jeprodize

    As is "jeprodize" the English language?

  45. License matters by thujone · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's funny reading some of the /. readers ... you'd think that nothing but the GPL exists. Case in point. Apple is making money off of FreeBSD's technology. And likewise, some of the FreeBSD folks are making money by working for Apple. Granted, it took a long while and a lot of hard work for that sort of arrangement to happen -- but it shows what CAN happen... and if you can live through the lean years, there is light at the end of the tunnel. Try sticking by what you believe in, what makes your conscience rest easy, instead of being a money grubbing whore.

    1. Re:License matters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple is making money off of FreeBSD's technology. And likewise, some of the FreeBSD folks are making money by working for Apple.

      How many Free Software Developers can develop the kind of computer hardware that Apple develops? How many Free Software Developers developed the iPod?

      Apple is able to use free software because that is not their business. Their business is selling hardware.

      Are you suggesting that everbody here who is a software developer should instead actually start developing hardware so that they can subsidize their Free Software development costs?

      Or are you suggesting that because some developers are on the Apple payroll, then all developers can get on the Apple payroll?

      Try sticking by what you believe in, what makes your conscience rest easy, instead of being a money grubbing whore.

      Apple charges premium prices for their computers. Their OS upgrades are incompatible on some of their earlier versions of their own machines, forcing people to upgrade their hardware. You don't think that they're being a "money grubbing whore"?

      Wow, your lack of respect for software developers' hard work is really disgusting. If you can use the phrase "money grubbing whore", can I say "freeloading bastard"?

    2. Re:License matters by thujone · · Score: 1

      Apple is able to use free software because that is not their business. Their business is selling hardware.

      People say the same thing about Sun. But last I checked, software was a big part of both businesses -- without software, there would be nothing to drive the hardware.

      So you can say that the "core" of Apple's business is to produce hardware, but they cannot sell it without software. So in that sense, in any sense, software is vital.

      Apple charges premium prices for their computers. [...] You don't think that they're being a "money grubbing whore"?

      You're changing context here. This isn't about Apple. It's about the inevitable goals of the developers of open-source software, whether that be BSD, or GPL, or whatever license.

      IMO, everyone needs to stop expecting to get a quick buck off any software they make, unless it's so brilliant that people can't live without it. Instead, think about the long-term impact of making something worthwhile that will, someday, benefit a large audience. Even developers of fairly small apps or libraries can find themselves meaningful, gainful employment because of it. It just may take awhile.

    3. Re:License matters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People say the same thing about Sun. But last I checked, software was a big part of both businesses -- without software, there would be nothing to drive the hardware.

      Strangely, Sun seems to spend a lot of time and resources on developing Java and promoting its use on Windows platforms.

      And the cost of Java for consumers?

      Free!

      Income from Java contributes zero dollars to Sun's bottom line, which is probably contributing to the phenomena of Sun's Incredibly Shriveled Stock Market Price.

      Sun also probably isn't making much money from OpenOffice.

      Which brings me back to my original argument: Sun is only able to subsidize the costs for Java and OpenOffice with its hardware sales.

    4. Re:License matters by thujone · · Score: 1

      How much do you know about Java? Sun makes money (or at the very least, offsets the cost of Java's R&D effort) through certifying third-party products for Java, and through licensing J2ME for mobile phones, etc. Just think about how many mobile phones there are out there, and that a very high percentage of them are all wired and licensees of J2ME. The embedded space for them is paying off rather well, though it's probably not enough to sustain Sun's other business from being clobbered by Linux. As for Apple... how nice it is to take a base technology like FreeBSD, hire some of the FreeBSD people who were building it solely for the LOVE, slap on a proprietary GUI layer and selling it for a profit? A rose by any other name... Apple is the master of the graphical UI (were and still are) and now they have the best of both worlds: solid u*ix foundation, apple's strength in user interface. Pleasing their core audience, pleasing a new audience (or should I say making converts out of some diehard *nix geeks), and advancing technology in one shot. Well-played, I say... even if you aren't one to drink Jobs' kool-aid.

  46. Wrong by poptones · · Score: 0
    Because money is what makes it harder for "independants" to compete. If you devalue the money, you chip away at the foundation of the power structure. Remove money from the equation, and the forces are more equal.

    Example: linux. Lots of talk about not being able to profit from software outside the corporate office. Why do you think that is?

    Because software is dirt. You may not like it that way, but them's the facts. In fact, if software were not dirt the IT boom may never have happened, because it was cheap business software that became free home software that drove the commoditization of the PC.

    So, if you're selling dirt, how do you make money off it? Yeah, if you have a vast reserve of land you can sell it by the truckload and make money, but there are relatively few who will be able to succeed with that model. The rest of us are going to have to do something with it - turn it into concrete roads, bridges, buildings - because that's the only avenue to profit: adding value.

    Mom doesn't care that she can use scripts and free source and make her desktop kewl. Mom wants to write papers for school, or watch movies, or email friends. Hard to add value to something that has so little to begin with. But if you're going to sell mom a system, better you to have that extra $100 than Uncle Bill.

    Most everyone I know who has a home PC but doesn't work in an office asks abotu classes. Even many who work in offices have asked about classes in how to use their PCs. They already have "free" software - it came with their computer - but they don't know jack about using it.

    Now, if you're going to offer these people classes and support, where is the value in their "free" software? They already need (and want) handholding - just ask and you'll see this is true. So if you to teach and support, you add value to "free." That's something mom understands. It doesn't matter if she can exchange word docs with Madge at the office, because she doesn't fucking know Madge at the office. What matters is if she can download shit from kazaa, and email people, and surf the internet. And play games - most of which, ironically, can be had on ISOs and rented at the corner store. So Mom doesn't need windows for that either - mom needs an emulator. An emulator that runs under linux. So basically, mom doesn't need windows. But there's no one to tell her that - despite the fact she's asking!

    Bill Gates is not going to come to mom's house and show her how to better use her PC. Bill Gates is not going to offer classes at the community center, or run a computer camp at the local church group. And he himself has made certain his software appears to be "free," which means "we" cannot compete on price. Nor should we even want to, since software is just dirt anyway.

    Evian gets more money for a bottle of water than coke gets for a bottle of soda or even than budweiser gets for a bottle of beer. What do they offer? A pretty package! That's it - it's all hype. Any difference at all is completely marginal, and certainly nothing a twenty dollar water filter wouldn't allow one to derive from the kitchen faucet.

    Apple is making scads of money selling open source software - open source software with a pretty new package and lots of marketing.

    Compare this to linux. What are the offerings? Business, IT, corporate infrastructure, blah blah blah - and then Lycoris and Lindows. You either get Kissinger droning on in monotone or you get Britney's slutty kid sister with the personality disorder.

    In the (tiny) consumer sector they do everything they can to make linux Windows. It wants to be windows, but it's just not quite there. How can you expect mom to see value in that? Windows is, from her POV, already free. So by that standard linux is not even as good as something she gets free. How are you going to compete on price like that?

    Until this community stops acting like an unwanted stepchild and develops some real self esteem,

  47. Just a comment on the "andromeda" thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Andromeda looks cool, but there isn't an explanation anywhere of what *problem* it solves.

    Can you clue me in?

    1. Re:Just a comment on the "andromeda" thing by turnstyle · · Score: 1
      This thread isn't really about Andromeda, but about my decision (so far) not to release it as open source, so I'll resist the temptation...

      If you're interested, check out the site, and feel free to send me an email and ask questions.

      --
      Here's what I do: Bitty Browser & Andromeda
  48. Ugly truth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I've talked with numerous book publishers and software companies about the open source market, and I consistently hear the same complaint: The open source crowd is too damn cheap to spend money.

    I could name (but won't) a very good programming book about a very popular OSS toolkit that literally sold under 1,000 copies in the year it was on the market. I've heard numerous horror stories like that about other books and software.

    You have to put your money where your mouth is, if you want to see OSS succeed commercially, people. If you don't, then shut up and quit bitching about MS's monopoly.

  49. How to make money from open source ... by polyp2000 · · Score: 1
    • Claim ownership of code
    • Threaten to sue the very people that wrote it
    • Play the stock market for a while
    • Spew forth FUD
    • Repeat last two steps indefinitely
    • ???
    • Profit
    --
    Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
    1. Re:How to make money from open source ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When are you going to stop posting stupid SCO 'jokes', you retard-o-geek?

  50. (Wrong) ^ 2 by turnstyle · · Score: 1, Insightful
    You may think that software is dirt, and that music is dirt, and that books are dirt, but I don't.

    I think art makes the world a better place, and I think that the people making it should benefit.

    For that matter, I'd also prefer to see artists getting more of the pie, rather than less.

    --
    Here's what I do: Bitty Browser & Andromeda
  51. Why commercialize? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Commercialism is failing. It isn't profitable anymore.

    I think open source advocates should be advocating a new form of society that doesn't involve commercialism because it slows us down. Trickle down economics is not trickling down anymore, if it ever was.

    We need to pay the developers so they can continue developing the software we need to use. I don't see any reason why we can't pay them by making everything they want or need free, do you?

  52. I like dual licensing by cdemon6 · · Score: 1

    JFtp http://j-ftp.sourceforge.net is a GPL network browser, same as its ftp API (written by me). I can't live from the earnigs of selling licenses, but it is real money. I strongly suggest everybody who writes an GPL-api to dual license it at the beginning if you want to make money out of it (which is imho fair if a company doesn't want to be its work GPL) - if it's LGPL you can safely forget about this.

  53. Woohoo! by poptones · · Score: 1
    Two in one day! The monkey with the mod points is really on a roll.

    Keep it up; I treasure the "trolls" and "flamebaits" far more than the dittohead responses. In fact, I'm going to wrap them up in a bow and send'em to Torvalds...

  54. Forget about getting hired by those guys by heroine · · Score: 1

    When you borrow $150,000 to write free software and a company starts expecting you to maintain tons of extra code they need to make money on it, you're better off not writing the software in the first place.

    You can write free software but you can't devote yourself to maintaining someone else's bottom line for free. Unfortunately, most companies use this against you and you find you can't get a job anywhere.

    Had one company do that. They were royally pissed and went out of business because we didn't maintain the code they needed in our system. Forget about getting hired by those guys, but if we never released the free program we'd be just as hirable as someone off the street.

  55. Limited resources - are they? by midgley · · Score: 1

    By comparison with alternatives, I am not convinced that Open Source's resources are (stringently) limited. A lot of the resources of companies selling proprietary programs are for less productive purposes than would be expected.

  56. Making money on Open Sourced software by Orion+Blastar · · Score: 1

    What about an advanced version with more features available for a price? Sort of like Red Hat Advanced Server. They add stuff to it, and charge more for it.

    Sort of like having a bucket, which isn't full for the Open Sourced basic package but it is free. If you want more features, you fill up the bucket more for a price. If you want ownership of the code, it can be released from GPL or whatever Open Sourced License to a Commercial License for a hefty fee and then you are free to make your own private version of it.

    So you could have a Document Management system designed for a single user with basic features as Open Source Licensed. Let's call it DocMan Lite. For a $100USD Fee they can buy DocMan Pro on a CD which can used a shared network database for multiple users and workgroups with advanced filtering for Client and Matter numbers, Workgroup codes, Practice Areas, and other things as well as a full text search engine. For a $35,000USD fee they can get the code released from the Open Source License and develop their own private version of it.

    Of course support can be purchased, but then what is to stop someone from making an alt.software.docman Newsgroup for free support or a web forum? Then your support fees go down the toliet as people can get it for free instead of paying for it.

    Open Sourced companies need a new business model, conventional business models won't work.

    --
    Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
  57. Examine the "value proposition" by eznet · · Score: 1

    In the "mainstream", one sure reason that people will pay for "free" software is convenience.

    If you take a bunch of esoteric open source software, and make it easy for them to use it, they will pay.

    That is probably the main driver behind the purchase of the retail box versions of popular distros. The model could probably be applied to more specialized open source applications as well.

  58. Yes by quinkin · · Score: 1
    Yes.

    Oh that and personality clash...

    Q.

    --
    Insert Signature Here
    1. Re:Yes by sg_oneill · · Score: 1


      Yes.

      Oh that and personality clash...

      Q.

      Belive it brother. Believe it.

      For comparison, see musicians.

      (speaking as a programming muso. Worship me)

      --
      Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
    2. Re:Yes by quinkin · · Score: 1
      Hehe - me too. :)

      Q.

      --
      Insert Signature Here
  59. Splintering as a good, or bad thing... by javamutt · · Score: 2, Interesting
    One of the things that stuck with me after reading the article was the author's idea that splintering (forking) in open source prjects is a bad thing.

    The open source process is inherently social and political. Group leaders spend as much time on organizational matters and conflict resolution as on technical issues. When members cannot agree, the groups sometimes split into different factions. This may result in potentially competitive projects with different approaches, and possibly redundant efforts in both groups.

    I actually see this as a potentially good thing. In then end, the OS project that lives is the one that more people have agreed upon and supported. I think disagreements are a fact of life, and in a way Open Source provides its own judicial system through Freshmeat's reverse popularity search.

    The only place I see it as not so good is in the incompatibilities between distros. While we all like to find the one that fits our personalities best, I think in some ways it has been both a stigma to outsiders. Still, most software included in distros can be found in source and made to work on your favorite flavor. Not something for the newbie or grandma, but at least its possible.

    I'm curous how the rest of you view the potential of OS projects to fork... Positive, or negative?

  60. Customer-driven OSS project features and fixes by api · · Score: 1

    Ever found yourself waiting for a commercial vendor to include a feature that you consider obvious or was available in their last version? I'm sure I could knock on Microsoft's door and ask them to add, say, official support for the ext3 filesystem but I don't think I would like the price they will quote me . . . or for a bug fix.

    I am faced with this right now. An oss project has a feature that some consider a security flaw and I am having some contributors to the project price out the cost of the fix. I am not paying them to write SINGLE LINE OF CODE for me, but rather paying them to fix a feature/bug that is low priority on the PROJECT's todo list, that I and other will in turn use. Only non-commercial open source allows for this kind of proactivity. Sending suggestions to RedHat in the past sure didn't work.

    For years Apple has put up and taken down suggestion pages claiming that if they use one of your ideas, you could sue them for stealing it, so they make a very concerned point of NOT listening to customer feedback unless it is part of a survey with a disclaimer. Send in the lawyers!

    So, in fantasy land: What if Microsoft's software was free of charge and its users paid them the exact same amount of money to fix bugs and sponsor features of THEIR design. While MS may sell a certain feature (or disabling of another) to the highest bidder, I don't see Linus Torvalds rejecting a sane fix simply because someone paid to have it written.

    Most OSS appears to be need-driven, making the developer the number one customer. What's wrong with a second, paying customer? I can "love it or leave it" with commercial software (and often have left) while OSS allows me to "love it or improve it."

    MD

  61. Re:Who is he to talk - BSD is a failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The *BSD community has weathered tough times before, but blah blah blah..."

    Linus, quit it. Enough already.