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Semiconductor Employees Suing IBM
An anonymous reader writes "According to the NYTimes's Bob Herbert, IBM has been killing its employees by exposure to dangerous chemicals - evidence is being offered by stricken employees that unusually
large numbers of men and women who worked for the giant computer corporation over
the past few decades have been dying prematurely."
I've been dying to get one as just as long as you've been dying to make them!
8==8 Bones 8==8
As usual....Same article without registration
and I was always jealous of everyone with an "IBM" job. .
at least working in the pr0n industry I'll only go blind. .
I know you are trolling, but I doubt that would matter in this case. The families of the victims would receive the compensation (as they would still have to assume the debt due to the high cost of medical bills, funeral arrangements, etc)
Does anyone know of exposure to harmful substances in other companies that do similar manufacturing? I mean, surely, IBM does not have dramatically different methods of manufacturing hard drives and semiconductors from the rest of the industry.
after all, semiconductor industry isn't _that_ old (few _decades_) and generally usage of chemicals a few decades ago wasn't often so well thought and their long term effects weren't usually that well laid out in ANY industry. and even more common is that employees in those old times didn't care themselfs at all about protection("what, i can't see it it cant hurt me don't tell me boy how to do this i've been doing this for 30 years") and general awareness about such things wasn't exactly stellar.
-
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Expected troll inside...
Four of the 40 lawsuits in San Jose are due to go to trial next month. All the suits are being watched extremely closely by the semiconductor industry, which had been warned for years that chip-making and other processes requiring the use of tremendous amounts of toxic chemicals (such as Rob Malda's manseeking semen) might be associated with cancers, miscarriages, birth defects and other very serious health problems.
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Whe I worked as a software Engineer for a small manufacturing company, many of the Electrical Engineers had many many problems relating to exposure to chemicals.
One had an enlarged liver, another had a nerveous dis-order. There was cancer. I think it stems from an over all lack of knowledge of hazordous chemicals.
When I worked there OSHA (Sp.?) had done a lot to make things better. A LOT of chemicals where removed and cleaned up. I was still nerveous about standing next to a pot of molten solder, etc.
Come the revolution, the Bourgeois, Capitalistic, "A PARKING STICKER HOLDERS", will be first against the wall!
Despite that, I think the employees have a fairly good point. Even if IBM didn't know about the toxic conditions, it was IBM who put the employees there, and they should likely have to deal with the consequences. Its really sad that it had to turn out this way.
I went to news.google.com to search for the google partner link, but "IBM lawsuit" turned up all this shit about some company called SCO. Who are they, anyway? They say they've got some sort of Unix, but I've never seen or even heard of anyone who runs it.
Must be some two-bit company...wonder why they're getting so much press.
Please help metamoderate.
A) Can't always stop it.
B) Powerful solvents are rarely good for you. Same for heavy metals.
C) Not everyone read MSDS like they should.
D) Proper saftey gear can be very uncomfortable and unwieldy, esspecially if it's fitted correctly. (I fog up goggles like you can't believe, even when I put anti-fog crap in them.)
E) Stress can accelerate cancer.
--Jimmy has fancy plans; and pants to match.
...Coincidence? I think not.
Original found on Usenet.
okra - sterculic acid (anti-metabolite)
celery - psoralins (light-stimulated carcinogens)
crucifers - goitrin (turns off your thyroid)
litchee - hypoglycin-A (L-a-amino-b-[methylene
cyclopropyl]propionic acid)
peanuts - aflatoxcins (fungal metabolites; hepatic carcinogens)
lima beans - cyanogenic glycosides
carrots - carotatoxin (neurotxin)
mushrooms - hydrazines (carcinogen; holy Alar, Batman!)
tomatoes - tomatine (neurotoxin), quercetin glycosides (carcinogens)
broccoli - benzpyrene (carcinogin), goitrin (shuts down thyroid)
potatoes - solanine (toxin; causes spina bifida), chaconine
(neutrotoxin), isoflavones (estrogens), arsenic
cassava - linamarin (cyanogenic glycoside)
broad bean - vicine (hemolytic)
chick pea - beta-N-oxalylamino-L-alanine (lathyrogenic factor)
fiddlehead - ptaquiloside (leukopenia, thrombocytopenia, hemolysis;
bladder and intestinal carcinogen)
comfrey - pyrrolizidine alkaloids (hepatotoxin)
cabbage - thiocyanates (shuts down thyroid)
spinach - phytanic acid (chelates iron adn zinc - no absorption)
soy - genistin, daidzin, coumesterol (phytoestrogens)
wheat germ - phytoestrogens
nutmeg - myristicin (hallucinogen, spasmodic)
mustard - allyl isothiocyanate (war gas)
alfalfa sprouts - canavanine (arginine mimic; highly toxic to growing
mammals)
everyone in the lab started dying of brain cancer at a rate that would make any statistician very, very nervous. NiGas immediately closed off the lab area and started figuring out just what happened. I have no further information about results, lawsuits or out-of-court settlements.
All these problems stem from speed, and the paradox created by it. Processors transistors switch on and off - faster with each new revision. Drives spin - quickly in most cases. Manufacturers attempt to create products and bring them to market as quickly as possible. IBM is no exception. The irony here is that most of the impacts can't ever be seen nearly as quickly. The same paradox has plagued the environment for hundreds of years.
My $0.02...
Nothing but the finest in meaningless drivel
Typical chemicals used back then as far as I can remember (unless my memory was affected) were; hydrofloric acid (maybe mixed with nitric acid so you would know if it splashed on you), arsenic and phosgene used as dopants, various solvents mostly zylene which is a known carcinogen (but you can buy it at Home Depot so it must be safe for you), acetone, and silane (methane with Si instead of C) which burns on contact with air to make silicon dioxide (glass).
"Some things have to be believed to be seen." - Ralph Hodgson
C) Not everyone read MSDS like they should.
I don't think MSDS rules existed in the time period they're talking about (mid-60's to late 70's).
Mandatory access to MSDS is relatively recent. A quick web search indicates that the OSHA "Hazard Communication" law came into effect in 1983.
"statistical analyses", "troubling elevations", "younger than the U.S. average", "chilling", "sadly", "Incredibly", "More than 200 plaintiffs", "serious illnesses", "vehemently denied"
Phew, with all those emotive phrases, I'm finding that I have strong opinions on this, despite not having access to the data behind the complaint, and not seeing the phrase "standard deviations" appearing once. I guess because IBM are a big company, they must be evil and therefore guilty, except that they're being sued by SCO, so perhaps they're good and therefore innocent.
One thing's for sure though, I'm not going to wait for them to muddy this with boring old "facts" before jumping to my conclusion.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
I'm mocking the post that was basically reducing the value of like to a nickel and making it seems as though nobody is ever responsible. .
I work in the IT dept of a manufacturing facility. Altho I'm far estranged from the bulk of hazardous chemicals, all employees are stringently informed of MSDS -- Material Safety Data Sheets -- available throughout the facility. The MSDS tomes contain a empirical breakdown of every chemical potentially encountered in/on/around the shopfloor, and a hazardous rating scale -- flammable, airborne, hazmat rating, etc.
Does IBM not practice such employee awareness techniques?
If it does, can the fault not be thrown back on the sick/ill/affected because, after availability of the information, they persisted in working in a potentially hazardous environment?
How long before IBM shuts down all their manufacturing plants and moves them to places where such employee problems aren't IBM's problem?
Now, if you can show me a few hundred people with the SAME ailment, you might have something. But this suit is fishing with a gill net.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
This is statistical hogwash. You can't take a sample like "all IBM employees" and compare it to "all the people in the United States." Analysis needs to be tuned to a population that has a similar demographic. Age, geography, economic background, pollution, family history, smoking, and even diet affect cancer rates tremendously.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
Yeah, that works for swim goggles for me, but not my lab goggles. It was a problem in college when I had to use HF. That always made me a just little nervous. (I'm also kinda clumsy) It is surprising how blasie one can become around horrible chemicals. HF was the only one that kept making me nervous.
But I've gotta imagine if I somehow managed to shatter a jug of 1 Ph HCl it wouldn't take long for the fumes to mess me up. I always tried to closely follow standards, but even at a university, there were rules, and practices. It wasn't uncommon to see unlabled beakers with a sign that just said don't touch, and some illegible initials. I can't imagine what the standards might fall to in an enviroment where everyone knows each other, and many have been doing this for decade+ after they got comfortable with "Don't Touch" and "Mine".
I don't even know if Osha can solve stuff like that. No one hated Osha more than the insturment makers. They had giant posters ridiculing osha policies (the Osha version of a Cowboy comes to mind). They knew what they were doing, and like the way they did it. (It's worth noting these guys weren't shop teachers. They'd been doing it more, better, longer, and had all their fingers.)
--Jimmy has fancy plans; and pants to match.
And the "can't happen to me" and "just a little won't hurt" mentalities build up too. When I was in high school I had a job cleaning environmental air samplers. I don't want to think about how much hexane I inhaled in those 4 years. I finally jury-rigged a vent hood out of a cardboard box and a box fan.
No health problems yet (10 years later) but I'll always wonder...
Could it be the workers fault ?? I know here where i work many safty procedures are in place, including masks for some substances but rarely do I see people using them.
All the time I see people breathing fumes, will they one day turn around and sue ?? Probably. People are trained, equipment is offered free, people ignore the rules, people sue.
Yeah, but how many people actually make use of that even now? Before MSDS they could still look up toxicity, it was much more difficult of course, but if you don't know what it does, but it's a solvent or heavy metal, seems like it'd be worth looking into. I'm not even guessing at the ignorance, my money is big on the apathy.
--Jimmy has fancy plans; and pants to match.
We want faster processors and more memory at all costs. If there's an environmental or human toll caused by getting a new CPU and video card every year so I can play the k00lest new gamez, then I say screw 'em :P
And you thought that your Deskstar was just committing suicide...
Go into hardware, die from nasty production chemicals
Go into software, die from a Doritos or Mountain Dew overdose.
Either way, you're screwed
"I would say that 99 per cent of what my father has written about his own life is false." - L. Ron Hubbard Jr.
Now now, be fair!
McDonalds is personally responsible for what you choose to consume! They are also responsible for you being an idiot and spilling coffee on yourself because the cup doesnt say "warning hot" (previous lawsuit won by that woman)
Tobacco companies are supposed to be paying billions for healthcare companines, who knew that putting something in your mouth and burning it and sucking it into your lungs would hurt you!
Apparently common sense is a thing of the past. I personally dont try to reach through my screen to grab anything on my monitor...but if someone does can they sue IBM for not having a warning on the monitor?
It is understandable in a law sense to take the person as they are, ie the eggshell cases where severly troubled people react far worse to situations than an average person, but plain stupidity should not be paid large sums.
If you cant beat them join them...after a rigerous routine of banging my head against the wall I will go to work and see what I can sue for!
Specifically to this issue though, it does seem IBM is at fault for not providing the appropriate protection/warning to employees
[I can picture a world without war, without hate. I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it]
White mice exposed to flourscent lights die.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
I survived Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma myself. Doctors do not yet know what causes this disease. They only have a list of 7 possible causes, only one of which is hazardous chemicals.
And in my case, that was one cause that was totally eliminated, due to lack of exposure.
One the other causes listed was STRESS!
Ages younger than the US average - try 36 for me. But how about sitting next to a kid in the waiting room, who at 17 was one his second go round for cancer?
This sounds more like lawyers trolling for dollars again.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF- 8&oe=UTF-8&q=spit+goggles
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Several key production workers at IBMs Semiconductor plant have decided to Sue IBM following an investigation Commissioned by SCO. In a dual handed attack on IBM not only have SCO attacked the Blue Chip organisation alleging IP infringment, the second wave of the attack now focusses on the fabrication plant.
;)
The SCO investigation into IBMs chemo-fabrication technologies neglects to state that the chemicals supplied had been tampered with by none other than the Dark Lord Darl McBride, (now a household name amongst techies...)
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
Hydrogen Fluoride supposedly passes right through your skin and attacks your bones. He had an interesting trip to the emergency room.
Semiconductor work involves some severely toxic chemicals - arsenic is used both as a dopant and a substrate, for example. Imagine an accidental release of a cloud of it from a CVD process.
While semiconductor work can be especially dangerous, I've heard that chemical engineers in general have low life expectancies because of constant exposure to toxic materials (a good reason to work in software).
Things may be improving. We had lots of benzene around the chemistry lab in high school, for example, but now I understand that benzene is completely banned because it was proved carcinogenic.
Hard to undo 20 years of exposure, though.
you took the words right outta my mouth. . .
"When I worked there OSHA (Sp.?) had done a lot to make things better."
You know you're on Slashdot when someone is unsure of the spelling of "OSHA".
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
After all, aren't ALL employees 'semiconductors'? My boss got across the 220VAC line once and didn't completely short it. The affect on *his* shorts was undesirable...
-- Don't call me "Sir," I increase entropy for a living!
[whistling while I walk down the hall] "Oh look Sulfuric Acid... hmmm wonder what it tastes like? Oh wait, there's a label but it doesn't say swallowing will kill, so it must be safe."
[whistling again] "Oh look a Class 3B laser. I wonder what it looks like inside while powered on. Look, no sticker or label that says looking into a laser beam will fry my eyeballs so it must be safe."
This is a test. This is a test of the emergency sig system. This has been only a test.
Although this kind of threat to workers' health is an outrage, in the real world, companies just move overseas when the US cracks down with safety/anti-pollution regulations or if the lawsuits start to pile up. Instead of fixing the problem, it is much cheaper to just move overseas and keep on doing what they have always been doing. There is practically *ZERO* enforcement of workplace safety regulations, environmental pollution regulations, and workers rights in China. The right to sue your employer in China only exists on paper and there are no independent labor unions.
What is needed here is both strict safety regulation and a ban or heavy tariff on goods from countries that do not enforce a basic level of similar reguations. This will force IBM and others to clean up their act and prevent them from just transfering the plants overseas.
Not stalled, but it'll probably be tied up in mass tort litigation for years like Silica, Asbestos, Manganese, etc.
I beg to differ. Lawsuits such as this, whether good or bad, add to the total cost of employing US citizens. Hence IBM will move its manufacturing to a country with fewer lawyers.
Scary stuff. And I trusted the IBM printer techs when they told me their toner is safe to breath (in small quantites obviously). Now I'm not so sure. Anyone aware of any medical proof one way or the other?
http://www.svtc.org/hightech_prod/ http://www.webreviews.com/9711/inside_intel.html http://www.faceintel.com/toxicchemicalsclassaction .htm
I guess this is what happens when IBM tries to overclock humans.. halfs their lifetimes..
-- Jim
-- If at first you don't succeed, lie!
Doctor: Here's the door to your body, see? [bring up some small fuzz balls with goofy faces and limbs from under the desk] And these are oversized novelty germs. [points to a different one up as he names each disease] That's influenza, that's bronchitis, [holds up one] and this cute little cuddle-bug is pancreatic cancer. Here's what happens when they all try to get through the door at once.o ! Move it, chowderhead! [normal voice] We call it, "Three Stooges Syndrome."
[tries to cram a bunch through the model door. The "germs" get stuck]
[Stooge-like]
Woo-woo-woo-woo-woo-woo-wo
Burns: So what you're saying is, I'm indestructible!
Doctor: Oh, no, no, in fact, even slight breeze could --
Burns: Indestructible.
See? Safety in numbers.
~Ben
If I had points you'd be getting them. +1 FUNNY!
All the pictures I've ever seen of semiconductor fabs has shown all the workers in environment suits to keep the machinery as totally clean as possible. So how exactly are the chemicals supposed to have gotten in to these "victims"?
What is needed here is both strict safety regulation and a ban or heavy tariff on goods from countries that do not enforce a basic level of similar reguations. This will force IBM and others to clean up their act and prevent them from just transfering the plants overseas.
Mod parent up.
It should not be possible to reduce manufacturing costs by offshoring in order to skirt basic workplace safety, child labor, or environmental regulations.
I can't speak to the merits of the case either way, but for some perspective it might be helpful to note that this is an OP-ED piece, and not a news story, from the NY Times. So although everything stated in the article may in fact be plain vanilla truth, your usual spin filters should be engaged.
I couldn't agree with you more though. Sigh...
To err is human, but to forgive is beyond the scope of the Operating System...
At that time, the long-term dangers of those chemicals were not appreciated. However, can they clearly pin it on the IBM process lines? How about the Reynold's plant, auto body shops, plating factories, and the rest fo the crap that was being dumped into the Silicon Valley air, dirt and water?
Actually you pay out less for a death than you do for a chronic incurable condition like brain trauma, or a lengthy battle with cancer. Therefore, IBM would in fact be well advised to delay things as much as possible. In any event, it is standard procedure when settling large, intractable claims.
People have a fixed value from a claims perspective - I might be worth $2 million because I have children and they will take into account my future earnings and the impact on the kids' lives if I die. If you are single and unmarried, you might be worth as little as $50k because no one is dependent on your income besides you. This is all, of course, based on your value to your surviving family.
It is a very cold measure of human worth, but it is a very real one.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
Herb is just writing a OP-ED piece for the trial lawyers association. Notice the "same law firm as the tobacco companies" dead agent attack. People die of cancer all the time that don't work for IBM and I'll be damed if I will believe the scientific analysis of a man paid $100,000 for testifying in each of those civil cases. It is all about the money and the trial lawyers will get 40% of the take if their client(s) win or settles and I'm sure Herb has some financial ties to this case or the lawyers involved. The difference between the NY Times and the Weekly World is that one of them is supposed to be objective and lately it appears the WW has more credibility.
The zylene is sold as Goof Off, and available in the paint department at Home Depot. It has a nasty smell to it.
I find that for many purposes, WD-40 (warning: audio on site) does the same trick, is cheaper, not smelly, and (perhaps?) not as carcinogenic.
Support a few technologists in Washington.
Coincidence?
The questions:
Was the company reasonably able to know the danger and effects of the chemicals within a given environment?
Were the employee's reasonably able to know the danger and effects of the chemicals within a given environment?
I do not agree with lawsuits against companies because we later find that a given environment wasn't as safe as we once thought. If we suddenly find that some specific type of blue paint causes skin conditions after it has been used for twenty years is it reasonable for the employees of the company that manufactured that paint to sue the company when the company itself wasn't aware and wasn't able to be aware of the risks involved. As time goes on we will continue to discover the hazards we place ourselves in. That will not change! Everything that you do involves risk. Get used to it.
I suppose I would only support this type of action if it can be proven that the company intentionally withheld knowledge from its employees and placed them in harms way with their actions. That in my opinion would be a valid case. Monetary reward should be given in the case of dishonestly or reasonable negligence. I say reasonable because if you neglect to protect your building skylight from burglars jumping or even walking on it, I do not feel you should be responsible because it isn't reasonable.
This country has become far to sue happy.
You can disagree with me if you wish but, please be aware that in a few years simple disagreements may be cause for lawsuits.
oops to late. They already are.
A group of IBM fab workers (presumably the same group) made an appearance on NBC's Dateline to discuss this very issue five years ago. Here's a transcript.
Bob Herbert is an opinion columnist and this article appears on the Op/Ed page of the Times. Herbert is not a news reporter. He is a columnist paid to offer his opinion on many things. He is also a noted left winger with an axe to grind against large corporations.
Call me when this is on the front page of the Washington Post or some reputable publication. The Timeshas already destroyed their reputation earlier this year as the place where they report "All the News That's Fir to Print."
"War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." -- Ambrose Bierce
When I hired in at a "technology company" on Day One they gave us the HF safety talk.
Not only does HF pass through your skin and attack the bones, you don't even feel it (other than as a wet spot) until it reaches the bones. By then you're in a whole lotta trouble, prompt pre-feeling treatment is necessary.
The treatment is to soak/rinse the affected area in a mix of ethanol and water.
They also had the anecdote about a guy who got some on his pants, and exposed a rather large area. He had to sit in a tub of ethanol/water. (which can infuse through the skin) After necessary steps, he was sent home drunk. I presume he wasn't chastised for being drunk on Company Time.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Agreed, but it isn't fair for you to blame IBM for this. Their competitors do it, so if they don't, they go out of business. It really is that simple. Sometimes the government tries to erect tariffs to balance the playing field a bit, but then everybody starts screaming about protectionism and corporate welfare. It's a no-win situation for all involved.
I think a stronger case can be made, though: all of these countries which have weak employee protection laws now will get stronger laws and start having retroactive lawsuits (ala tobacco or asbestos) which will probably cost the companies a lot more down the road than it would cost them to avoid those areas now. And I'll bet they're not factoring that risk into their cost analyses.
Recent news: IBM lays off 15,000 workers Translation: 15,000 workers fired for dying on the job.
1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
Companies that provided chemicals to I.B.M. are also defendants in the suits. The workers were not told of the risks, according to the lawsuits, even after they began showing symptoms of systemic chemical poisoning.
This show's they are after money, and not information. IBM bought these chemicals.... why is it the fault of the company that sold them to them?
>D) Proper saftey gear can be very uncomfortable and unwieldy, esspecially if it's fitted correctly. (I fog up goggles like you can't believe, even when I put anti-fog
>crap in them.)
I worked a college summer at a rubber factory running a steam press. Every day they'd bring around two pairs of gloves for each of us. One pair for handling the molds and pulling the parts out/off, and one pair for handling the metal inserts that went into the mold as a component of the next batch of product.
Doing your job well depended on quickly changing gloves, so everybody cut their gloves, some more than others. I pretty much stuck to slits up the back of the hand, some also cut the cuffs off. Of course this reduces the protection available. That summer I always had burns somewhere on my arms or hands.
>C) Not everyone read MSDS like they should.
At the rubber factory, there was no discussion whatsoever of hazardous chemicals. My aunt worked in the same factory in the area where they dipped the aforementioned metal inserts in a special paint. She later had a bout of cancer. Related, or ordinary statistics.
My father worked in PVC, and was down in the bins cleaning them out before anyone required even a breath mask. He later had a bout with cancer. Statistics? How about adding that many workers from his area had similar cancers? (Don't have statistics handy.)
IMHO, after WWII we began an infatuation with all things modern, including chemicals. It is understandable that companies may not have taken proper precautions initially. My irritation comes in two specifics:
1: "We" didn't know what the risks were at first, but now that we know, we're making too much money and it's too expensive to fix things.
2: Of course it's bad, but if "we" fix things, then we'll be admitting we knew it's bad, and then we'll be open to lawsuits. Better to continue denial and "ignorance."
>A) Can't always stop it.
Oh, I also did summer work on farms. Now you want to talk about HAZARDOUS!
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
This an opinion piece, not an article in a research journal.
I wonder how many of these people expose themselfs to other type of hazardous materials such as tobacco products, alcohol and automobiles?
I think a stronger case can be made, though: all of these countries which have weak employee protection laws now will get stronger laws and start having retroactive lawsuits (ala tobacco or asbestos) which will probably cost the companies a lot more down the road than it would cost them to avoid those areas now. And I'll bet they're not factoring that risk into their cost analyses.
In a corporate world where the short is all that matters, your idea probably has even less of a chance of succeeding than the original proposal..
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Seeking the meaning of life... @slashdot of all places
What is needed here is both strict safety regulation and a ban or heavy tariff on goods from countries that do not enforce a basic level of similar reguations.
The problem is that capitalists, who basically control the economy (as well as portions of the government) will never agree to it. Tariffs are as evil as socialism to this crowd and I just don't see that working.
The only way is to mount a social movement in the host countries but that is very difficult given that you can end up in jail easily (protesting=jail in most countries) and most people are too poor and would do anything for a job (eg. most poor countries practice SLAVE LABOUR.. the corporations don't call it that; the government doesn't call it that; but it really is)...
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Seeking the meaning of life... @slashdot of all places
This is a NY Times expose. Please check Snopes for factual accuracy...
You can tell a great deal about the character of a man by observing those who hate him.
If IBM has reaped the profits of business operations that wound up poisoning and killing their employees, why should the employees (or their survivors) not sue for compensation?
Everything that you do involves risk. Apparently for you, this means that the risk is shifted to the employee when things go badly, but stay with the company when things go well (as the company keeps the reward associated with the risk).
2 If it is workplace related exposure, then the people exposed to it should generally come down with the SAME TYPE of cancers/diseases(e.g. radium watch makers all came down with bone tumors, aniline dye workers all came down with bladder cancer) . If someone has esophagous cancer (prob from smoking+drinking) and somebody else has a bone tumor and someone else has brain cancer then these things DON'T ADD UP.
We need to see a GOOD epidemiological investigation before IBM is accused of increasing the cancer risk in it's manufacturing divisions. These things are almost always related to
Selection bias
..........FULL STOP.
For a year as a contractor in the late eighties. There was always a nasty stink of fumes around the entire plant. It would hit you as you drove up to the place.
I didn't work in a clean room, although I spent my 12 months there slicing silicon wafers and then bathing them in a solvent (do not remember exactly what it was) that dissolved the bond between each wafer and a strip of caulk. The protection I was given was for my eyes (goggles) and hands (rubber gloves).
I do remember that my lungs would burn after shifts, particularly by the end of the week. I don't have cancer, yet, but I do have diminished lung capacity and chronic bronchitus now. Are they fallout from my stint at IBM? Possibly. Doctors always ask me if I smoke (never have) when they give me lung capacity tests and get back these crappy results.
Do I suspect I was taken advantage of? Again, possibly, but you need to understand that at the time it was a big deal to get any job at IBM in Duchess county. Seven dollars an hour was considered a king's ransom since just about all the other work available was for minimum wage. All of the contractors I worked with applied to become full-time employees, and a "lucky" few were accepted when their temp stints ran out. Hopefully, since I wasn't one of the "lucky" ones, I'll be one of the truly lucky ones that doesn't develop a serious illness from my time spent there.
Overall I'm a little worried but as I said, I don't have cancer yet and I take care of my health. I feel bad for my co-workers who are very sick now or who have died. There were a lot of good people working there and I think IBM is no different than any other large corporation in the borderline craven way they put profits above all other considerations.
Be careful out there, is all I can say.
Can anyone enlighten me, a slashdotter and (gasp!) an English Major, as to whether or not the recently heralded diamond age will make for safer workplaces in this industry? Does the process of creating diamonds in the lab require and/or produce the same toxic chemicals?
"Trust in haste. Repent at leisure"
No kidding, that must be a sweet processor if people were willing to die for it.
Justice does not stop there. Since we require American companies like IBM to abide by stringent environmental and work regulations that protect both the environment and American workers, we must also require foreign companies like Acer from Taiwan province (located in China) to abide by the same stringent environmental and work regulations. Otherwise, IBM will be at a competitive disadvantage against companies like Acer. Acer products are cheaper than IBM products simply because Acer does not pay the cost of protecting the environment or the employees.
At the same time, non-Westerners like the Koreans and the Chinese simply do the care about the environment or the health of employees. Please read the environmental report card produced by the Silicon Valley Toxics Coalition. All the Taiwanese and Korean companies received a failing grade on the issue of poisoning both the environment and their workers.
How can Westerners force non-Westerners like the Taiwanese and Koreans to enact and to enforce the same stringent environmental and work regulations that Westerners apply to Western companies like IBM? Simple. We boycott products made by Taiwanese or Korean companies. Please remember that when you buy products make in a particular country, you effectively support the value system in that country. Do not buy products made in either China or Korea.
If you have qualms about this boycott, please re-read the environmental report card produced by the Silicon Valley Toxics Coalition.
The fluorine ions go right through the skin and eat the calcium in the bones. And one doesn't notice the reaction (unless it's high concentration HF) until hours later. Besides dissolving bones, the fluorine ions attack other parts of the nervous system, and one can get fluorine poisoning. Very nasty stuff.
Another response here says to wash off HF in ethanol, which I've never heard of. Here in our lab we have a tube of Calcium Gluconate, which one would use in case of a spill. The theory being the HF eats that calcium instead of in one's bones.
Besides HF, as you've mentioned, two common poisons used in the semiconducting industry are phosphine gas and arsine gas (used for InP and GaAs respectively). I've worked in labs that have used these gases, and I do feel kind of uncomfortable knowing there's a tank of poison gas right near me, and hoping that all tubes and leak detectors are fully functioning properly.
Arsine smells like almonds, and phosphine like garlic. And rumour has it that by the time you can smell these gases you've already been lethally exposed to the poisons. Not sure how true that is, but there have been many deaths this way.
In one of my old labs long before I worked there, somebody committed suicide by opening the arsine gas lines purposely. In another urban legend I've heard, a guy wanted a few weeks of paid sick leave. So before a mandatory employee arsenic test, he inhaled a small amount of arsine gas, so as to test positive for arsenic exposure. He died a few days later.
Anyway, those are some of the worse chemicals. But there's alot of 'generic' stuff which can be bad over long times, like acetone, hexane, benzene, etc. Lithography and crystal growing is a much nastier business than it seems!
make world, not war
"If IBM has reaped the profits of business operations that wound up poisoning and killing their employees, why should the employees (or their survivors) not sue for compensation?"
This is similar to the last persons reply and so I am not going to go into what I think. Please see my reply to canajin56.
I understand that you want to be for the people who have been injured. It is horrible that these things happen. My opinion simply stated is, just because something horrible happens does not equate to a compensable offense.
Yes, this is true, but I believe the real danger lies in that the F- ions in your bloodstream scavenge Ca2+ ions. Since your body relies on ion concentration gradients for signal transmission across cell membranes and such, this is a Bad Thing. It eventually interferes with cardiac function.
Spilling HF on your hand is not bad because it will destroy your hand, but because it can kill you.
The work is done in clean room environments, where the same air is recirculated all day. You would need respirators and full body bio-suits to not breathe in the chemicals.
There's also the fact that many places just dumped the toxic waste into the ground, which is why many cities in Silicon Valley have questionable water and why a measurable percentage of all California lettuce had some toxins.
As the source of this article is the New York Times
and it's on the op ed page I give it very little weight. Since even the "news" at the NYT is opinion most of the time.
Could this be true, yes. Do I trust the NYT, no.
Give us some non-political unlawyer spun, non wacko enviro bleating facts please.
As you can see I don't care about my karma.
This is an old song. [Something] I ingested is making me sick. Why didn't anyone warn me!
I remember a song that was out in the '50s by Phil Harris called "Some Little Bug Is Gonna Get You:.
Find out your intellectual property complaints are baseless? No worries, just manufacture a few deaths and another lawsuit! Its a conspiracy I tell you... IBM, the masters behind the wildly successful OS/2 WARP, can do no wrong.
perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10)'
xylene
The clearance system sounds logical. It is not. It is completely arbitrary. -- John Bolton
It's a known fact that the average lifetime for retired IBM employees is less than 1 year. I know several people who have died after 30 days of retirement.
The problem is they've got no hobbies or "life" outside of work. I guess it's not just a problem for the new generation of techies.
Sorry.
The technician was seated when he knocked over a small quantity (between 100 and 230 ml) of hydrofluoric acid (HF) onto his lap, splashing both thighs.
The technician sustained burns to 9% of his body, despite washing his legs with water at 6 liters/min. No calcium gluconate gel was applied to the affected area and contaminated clothing was not removed during the flushing with water. His right leg was amputated 7 days after the incident. He subsequently died from multi-organ failure 15 days after the hydrofluoric acid spill.
Look, when most people make coffee at home, they boil the water. Water cannot get any hotter than the boiling point (if it did, it would be a gas). So that means that McDonald's couldn't get their coffee any hotter than people at home can.
This means that all hot drinks should be considered dangerous, and that if you get burned because you put it in your lap, it's your own damn fault.
Now, because of this woman, when I, on occasion, get breakfast at McDonalds, the coffee is cold by the time I make it to work.
There are no tiger attacks in my area and it's all because this rock I'm holding keeps the tigers away.
Try fabric softener sheets, the kind that you throw into a clothes dryer to soften clothes and prevent wrinkles.
The only problem with them is that they leave a slight hazy film on the plastic/safety glass, but that's not as bad as fog.
(You can try wiping them with a tissue to remove the haze, but removing too much negates the anti-fogging effect.)
Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana