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Beatles Bite Apple

blamanj writes "Apple Computer, which once got into hot water with the Beatles Apple record label, has been sued once again by the same group. Apple Records says iTunes and the iPod violate the previous agreement." Apple's broke their agreement in the past when speakers were first used with their computers to play music.

150 of 895 comments (clear)

  1. heh by acxr+is+wasted · · Score: 2, Funny

    I am the walrus. I am the frivolous lawsuit.

    --
    "Come on, let's go drink till we can't feel feelings anymore."
    1. Re:heh by sharkey · · Score: 5, Funny

      Koo, koo ka-sue?

      --

      --
      "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
  2. Talk about Sour Apples. by CatOne · · Score: 3, Funny

    Er, wait... that's grapes :-/

  3. O_o by dosius · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This whole situation is bullshit, Nobody on earth is going to confuse Apple Computer Inc. with Apple Corps Ltd. So the trademark point should be moot.

    -uso.

    --
    What you hear in the ear, preach from the rooftop Matthew 10.27b
    1. Re:O_o by PipianJ · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I will agree with you, but only for the iPod. I've never seen Apple Corps release a music player. The RESALE of music however is a much trickier issue that will likely be ruled in Apple (the Beatles') favor, as it is for all intents and purposes impossible to distinguish Apple (Computer's) intent with the iTunes music store from the topic the agreement was made about.

      My opinion? Music PLAYERS (iTunes, iPod, speakers) would not violate. iTMS *DOES*. (Well, there is a subtle distinction in that Apple serves as a store, but in the modern computer age, distribution through the internet is just as good as manufacturing/label.

      I've been wondering why Corps didn't do it sooner, since I knew it was inevitable. All I can see is an uphill battle for Apple.

    2. Re:O_o by hoist2k · · Score: 5, Funny

      It actually is kind of confusing:
      Apple:Beetles::Apple:Beatles

      --
      Turns out that cute girl's A|X t-shirt didn't mean AIX. Who would've thought?!
    3. Re:O_o by ccweigle · · Score: 5, Insightful
      The RESALE of music however is a much trickier issue that will likely be ruled in Apple (the Beatles') favor, as it is for all intents and purposes impossible to distinguish Apple (Computer's) intent with the iTunes music store from the topic the agreement was made about.
      Maybe in a court of law with high powered attourneys arguing the case, it will be indistiguishable. But to those of us with common sense, I can't think of the last time I bought any music from Apple Corps. That they distributed, maybe, but I give no thought to that at all when making a purchase. I buy music from BestBuy, and my wife's bought a few tunes from ... Apple Computer's iTunes Music Store. Hell, I just tried to look them up on the web ... do you know how many actual record companies with "Apple" in their name there are? Where are those cut-and-dry law suits?
    4. Re:O_o by fenix+down · · Score: 2, Funny

      So, could we buy, like, Ringo? Is he new enough?

      Ok, that sounded funny in my head, really. Ah, whatever.

    5. Re:O_o by Felinoid · · Score: 2, Informative

      Obveously if your buying music from Apple you know who your dealing with right?

      --
      I don't actually exist.
    6. Re:O_o by Phybersyk0 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Check this out... "Ringo" is Japanese for "APPLE".

    7. Re:O_o by PipianJ · · Score: 2, Funny

      Ah! I meant the Computer manufacturer.

    8. Re:O_o by Negadecimal · · Score: 5, Informative

      This whole situation is bullshit, Nobody on earth is going to confuse Apple Computer Inc. with Apple Corps Ltd. So the trademark point should be moot.

      It's not a trademark battle. Apple Computer signed a binding agreement that promised that they'd stay out of the music business.

      Shortsighted, but still a legal contract.

    9. Re:O_o by rizzo420 · · Score: 5, Funny

      it's not the fact that they were the first "boy band" that makes the historically significant. modern boy bands don't write their own music or lyrics, nor to the majority of modern pop artists. the beatles wrote all their own lyrics and music. they created a completely different sound than what ever existed before (you can't listen to just the early or just the late beatles to hear this sound either). their creative skills were much larger than any modern rock band. they use completely different methods in arranging their music. they are the single most influential band to ever exist in music. most of what you, your parent poster, his parent poster, and even the guy that made the first "beatles suck" comment listen to was influenced by something the beatles did. i'm not saying you have to enjoy their music, but you have to respect that they basically created modern rock/pop music. the only person who might be more influential is bob dylan, and that's only as far as lyrics are concerned since he showed the beatles how to write songs about real things, not just teenage love/lust. you might even throw brian wilson and the beach boys in there too. without the rivalry, the bealtes wouldn't have gotten to where they did, and paul claims brian wilson as one of his major influences and pet sounds as one of his favorite albums.

      so the moral of the story is... although you may not like the music of the beatles, it exists in probably everythign you listen to (unless you listen to classical or jazz or variants of those).

      --
      please me, have no regrets.
    10. Re:O_o by critter_hunter · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Here's some fun thing to try: listen to the album "One". The first 10 songs or so (up until Yesterday, IIRC) are the *exact* *same* *thing*


      I love the stuff the Beatles did later on, but overall, the Beatles were much better as a cultural event than as a musical group. They were just another pop band for most of their career. My mother tells me "you had to be there", "you weren't there" whenever I criticize the Beatles' music. Well shit, I love tons of bands that made music in the seventies, and I wasn't "there" either. Why should the Beatles get some special privilege because a bunch of baby boomers had nothing better to do than worship them? Heck, those baby boomers were all on LSD anyway, what kind of reference is that ;)

      --
      Karma: Could be worse (could be raining)
    11. Re:O_o by edwdig · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's rather similar to the World Wrestling Federation vs the World Wildlife Fund over the initials WWF.

      There's no way to mistake those two, but when the Wildlife Fund first complained, the wrestling federation signed an agreement that they wouldn't use the initials internationally. Then the web came along and they registered wwf.com. After a long court battle, the Wildlife Fund won because of the prior agreement.

      In the Apple vs Apple case, there's much more room for confusion. Just on trademark law alone Apple Computer would probably lose. But if they did sign an agreement say they'd stay out of the music business, then they don't have a chance. Most likely result though is they'll either settle for cash, or spin off iTunes into a seperate division that doesn't use the Apple name.

    12. Re:O_o by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Playing lawyer today, are we? Apple's liability depends, in large part, on the exact wording of the various contracts and settlements Apple has signed over the years. Many of these documents are confidential. One cannot, therefore, determine, with any degree of certainty, which of Apple's venture, if any, infringe on these agreements.

    13. Re:O_o by sogoodsofarsowhat · · Score: 2, Informative

      Um, Wrong DUMBASS, Apple Computers AGREED to the terms of the settlement. They are not honoring their end of the bargain....its called BREECH OF CONTRACT. Plain and simple. You will see Apple Computers have to pay to settle this breech on their part. As it should be. Had Apple had to make an agreement with you (on anything) and they didnt honor it you would be the one sueing and winning. Apple may be one of your pet computer companies and may even have most favored computer company status with you, but they are still in the wrong and thus must pay the piper. And no the situation is not Bullshit....its called Apple Corps was kind enough and reasonable enough to let Apple Computer license use of the name. Since Apple Computer seems to have forgotten all that they have committed to, the courts will gladly remind them.

      --
      . I love the sound of burning women and screaming rubber....
    14. Re:O_o by MrLint · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "I can't think of the last time I bought any music from Apple Corps. That they distributed, maybe, but I give no thought to that at all when making a purchase."

      That's because they are irrelevant. As it was in another post, No one with any common sense would confuse the 2 entities. I dare say that people under 20 don't even know an apple corps exists/existed. The original suit was frivolous to begin with. Speakers on a computer somehow would cause market place confusion and such. give it a rest guys.

    15. Re:O_o by elmegil · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They're trading under the name "iTunes Music Store".

      --
      7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
    16. Re:O_o by BJH · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, it's "ringo". "Ingo" is a word that means undergound slang or jargon.

    17. Re:O_o by hondo77 · · Score: 2, Funny

      What's an intensive purpose?

      A mean porpoise.

      What's that? He didn't say "insensitive porpoise"?

      Nevermind.

      --
      I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
    18. Re:O_o by covertlaw · · Score: 2, Funny

      Kinda like Prince, It'd be the Computer Company Formerly Known As Apple Computer. Their name would just be the apple silohuette.

    19. Re:O_o by AJWM · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Do yourself a favor.

      Go get a copy of Pet Sounds. Listen to it. Better yet, listen to it, particulary to the music rather than the lyrics. Especially track 8 -- God Only Knows. (Unless, of course, your hearing is already totally shot from listening to head banging heavy metal acid rock at 130 dB.)

      BTW, Brian Wilson was inspired to create Pet Sounds when he heard the Beatles' Rubber Soul. In turn, Pet Sounds inspired the Beatles to do Sergeant Pepper's, which in turn prompted the Rolling Stones to create On Their Satanic Majesties Request. Rubber Soul, BTW, was partly a result of Bob Dylan's influence on the Beatles.

      --
      -- Alastair
    20. Re:O_o by Doomdark · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Maybe in a court of law with high powered attourneys arguing the case, it will be indistiguishable. But to those of us with common sense, I can't think of the last time I bought any music from Apple Corps

      Note though that this is about trademarks, and Apple Corps clearly has had trademarks well before Apple Computer even started. That Apple was ever apple to be named that was based on them not being in music business. Now they are extending there, and getting into trademark problem. In this case you either believe trademark law makes sense, or you don't; and only in latter case you can consider this case frivolous.

      Easiest thing for Apple should be just spinning off their music download business to another fully owned company, names, say, iTunes? Problem solved.

      --
      I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
    21. Re:O_o by Frymaster · · Score: 4, Informative
      It seems totally mind boggling that apple computer did not know wtf they were doing.

      sure they knew. the second system beep developed for the mac (after "sysbeep") was called "sosumi" - which is pronounced "so sue me". it was in direct reference to apple records and the whole "can't make music" clause.

    22. Re:O_o by marko123 · · Score: 5, Funny

      What's an intensive purpose? ;)

      fap...fap...fap...fap ;)

      --
      http://pcblues.com - Digits and Wood
    23. Re:O_o by black+mariah · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The relevant point here is that Apple Computers had a CONTRACT with Apple Corps that was VIOLATED. You break a contract, you pay. Simple as that.

      --
      'Standards' in computing only impress those who are impressed by things like 'standards'.
    24. Re:O_o by hamster+foo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It SHOULD be bullshit, and I would imagine if Apple Computers had actually gone to court over the issue they would have won. The problem is they settled and made an agreement to stay out of the music marketplace. I don't have any idea what the specifics of that agreement were, but it was apparently fairly broad.

      From the article: "The Beatles sued and won another lawsuit when Apple shipped computers that allowed music to be played through attachable speakers."

      If attaching speakers to a computer thereby enabling music to be played breeched the agreement with Apple Corps, then ANYTHING they touch involving music must be within the scope of the agreement.

      Unless there is someway to have that agreement rendered void, it appears Apple will be paying big bucks if they continue to release music products under the Apple name. Confusion or lack there of doesn't even play into it.

      --
      - b
    25. Re:O_o by YOU+LIKEWISE+FAIL+IT · · Score: 2, Funny
      BREECH OF CONTRACT.

      "Breach". However, your post could be categorised as "SCREECH OF COMMENT". There's no need to get worked up and start calling people dumbasses over a suit that neither of you are named in. Take a Xanax and chill out, it's Friday.

      You are right however, that this is a contract violation suit. I think Apple should be looking into possible options for dissolution of contract, even if it involves a larger settlement.

      YLFI

      --
      One god, one market, one truth, one consumer.
    26. Re:O_o by bigsteve@dstc · · Score: 4, Informative
      No one with any common sense would confuse the 2 entities. I dare say that people under 20 don't even know an apple corps exists/existed.

      Granted that this case is about contract law, what you have said actually demonstrates that Apple Corps are not being frivolous. If an average 20 year old is unaware that Apple Corp exists, they may well assume that various CDs they find in their local CD shop are distributed by Apple Computer. If customers then phone Apple Computer about new CD releases, etc this is not good for Apple Corp.

    27. Re:O_o by byolinux · · Score: 2, Informative

      And what URL do they give for iTunes Music Store on commercials? Why, it's www.applemusic.com

    28. Re:O_o by martingunnarsson · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I agree with you. I'm 23 and the first time I heard of Apple Corps was when I read about the legal struggles between them and Apple Computer.

      --
      Martin
    29. Re:O_o by floydigus · · Score: 2, Informative

      IIRC, they named a development system/OS or something 'Sagan' and he objected, so they renamed it 'BHA' which they would never spell out, though everyone knew it really meant 'Butt Head Astronomer'.

      --

      All things in moderation; including moderation

    30. Re:O_o by Lumpy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm sorry, but the beatles and all the other "pioneers" owe everything to the early Jazz and Blues artists...

      THAT is where it started... the "banned" so called "black" music is where rock-and-roll got it's birth. the beatles, elvis, rolling stones all admitted that they got their ideas from listening to the real pioneers....

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    31. Re:O_o by kalidasa · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I dare say that people under 20 don't even know an apple corps exists/existed.

      So you're saying no one under 20 has a copy of Let It Be, has ever looked at the front of the CD, and seen the little (whole) apple logo with "apple records" on it just underneath the (c) 1970 EMI Records Ltd. statement? Or of the Beatles' Anthology disks, all of which have apples on the disks themselves?

      Sorry, this is not a frivolous lawsuit. Apple Corps has an agreement with Apple Computer in which they agreed to stay out of the music business. Apple Computer is now releasing "iTMS exclusive" tracks given to them by their recording company partners, in which they are effectively behaving in a way indistinguishable from a record label, which is what Apple Records is. Sure, nearly everybody is able to make the distinction, but Apple's foray into the recording industry is obscuring the original Apple Records' brand - people think Apple and recordings, and they think iTMS. That's one of the points to trademarks.

      Anyway, Apple Computer will just buy Apple records off with another huge settlement; McCartney has said that Apple Records made more money from lawsuits against Apple Computer than on any of their recording releases (and that's saying something, given the couple of Beatles' albums).

      IANAL.

    32. Re:O_o by Glock27 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The relevant point here is that Apple Computers had a CONTRACT with Apple Corps that was VIOLATED. You break a contract, you pay. Simple as that.

      Yes.

      It was stupid of Apple Computer to enter into a contract with no expiration date. I'm pretty sure if they'd specified "expires in 2000 A.D." as one of the conditions in the original contract it would have been accepted. Also, after the first suit (and $50 million), there should have been an agreement releasing both parties from the original contract. I hope the award to Apple Corp. will be small, as I feel the actual damages are negligible. Apple Corp. has no intention or need to sell music online (other than possibly through the iTunes store;). In fact, a reasonable settlement would be for Apple Corp. to be able to distribute music through the iTunes store at a slightly increased profit margin.

      All in all , though, contracts in perpetuity are best avoided. ;-)

      --
      Galileo: "The Earth revolves around the Sun!"
      Score: -1 100% Flamebait
    33. Re:O_o by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Here's some fun thing to try: listen to the album "One". The first 10 songs or so (up until Yesterday, IIRC) are the *exact* *same* *thing*

      And everything made by ZZ Top isn't?

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
  4. Corp Dump by dotslashdot · · Score: 3, Funny

    Man, this is a Corp dump that's going to byte big time!

  5. sosumi by utexaspunk · · Score: 4, Funny

    Frankly, I think it's ridiculous, and Apple music knows it, but probably figures they can milk them for a little more cash, so why not?

    FYI- IIRC, this was the origin of the "sosumi" sound (one of the first sounds apples made) (so-sue-me)

    1. Re:sosumi by swschrad · · Score: 2, Informative

      it didn't make any sense in the 1980s, and it doesn't make any sense now. Apple Computer is not originating any music in direct competition with the beatles. it's a shakedown, always has been.

      --
      if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
    2. Re:sosumi by Admiral+Llama · · Score: 4, Funny

      I just changed my Mac over to the Quack sound so I won't get sued either.

    3. Re:sosumi by geoffspear · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yes, if the apple growers start selling music.

      --
      Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
    4. Re:sosumi by rootofevil · · Score: 2, Informative

      you forgot to mention why - the other two models at the time were codenamed "cold fusion" and "piltdown man"

      sagan was pissed at being associated with a fraud and a failure (so far) so he sued.

      he also sued after he heard the name was changed to BHA, for libel.

      i even had a Sagan/BHA PPC, in fact its still in my closet...

      --
      turn up the jukebox and tell me a lie
    5. Re:sosumi by curtlewis · · Score: 4, Informative

      The origin of sosumi (at least the name) came about from a complaint by Microsoft that the sound sounded too much like a sound they used in Windows.

      Apple renamed the sound (but left the sound the same) to sosumi in response.

      This occured long before the Carl Sagan scandal. What a putz! I'd be honored to have someone CODENAME a project after me (not a marketable name, a CODENAME).

    6. Re:sosumi by Blondie-Wan · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Right. As I understand it, the first three machines in the very first generation of Power Mac (the first Macs based on PowerPC chips instead of Motorola's 68xxx chips) were the Power Mac 6100, 7100, and 8100; the middle one was codenamed "Carl Sagan," with the other two being the "Cold Fusion" and "Piltdown Man" - so the three were named after a scientific fraud, another scientific fraud, and... Carl Sagan. A rather nasty insult was implied (no, I have no idea what Apple engineers or whoever else chose codenames had against Sagan, but there it was). It was publicly revealed, and Sagan was not amused, so he sued over the unauthorized use of his name. Apple('s people) changed the code name to "BHA," which appeared to settle everything ("oh, just some random initials"), until Sagan found out they apparently stood for "butt-head astronomer," and I believe he sued again, with the case eventually getting thrown out. The code name eventually got changed, though, to "LAW" (for "lawyers are wimps").

      I like both Sagan and Apple, but I think the whole episode reflects a bit poorly on both, though it's kind of funny, too - kind of like the current Apple vs. Apple, actually.

    7. Re:sosumi by HeghmoH · · Score: 4, Informative

      What if your name was used as the code name for one of three big computer models being worked on. The other two are named after well-known hoaxes and examples of bad science. You are a famous scientist.

      This is what happened. Carl Sagan was the 7100, the mid-range in the first three models that used the then-new PowerPC. The 6100 and 8100 were called Cold Fusion and PDM, which stood for Piltdown Man (a faked "missing link" fossil, if you don't know). It's entirely possible you'd still be honored (I think if it were me I'd just laugh), but I can understand why Sagan was upset.

      If you know all this already, sorry, consider it as extra information for the others. :P

      --
      Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
    8. Re:sosumi by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sosumi did come from the Apple Records situation

      http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Records

      "At one point, Apple Records sued Apple Computer for trademark infringement because the computer company broke their earlier agreement not to add sound to its computers. The case was settled out of court. Apple computers ever since have included a sound labelled sosumi ("So, sue me")."

    9. Re:sosumi by mbbac · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wrong. The Sosumi sound was because of Apple Corp.

      --

      mbbac

    10. Re:sosumi by Sentry21 · · Score: 2, Funny

      THe Carl Sagan codename was then changed to 'BHA', "random initials", and the lawyers were happy again.

      'Coincidentally', BHA could also stand for 'Butt-head astronomer'.

      --Dan

    11. Re:Sosumi by rigmort · · Score: 2, Informative

      The Sosumi sound is also the first note of Help!

  6. Damn... by w.p.richardson · · Score: 5, Funny
    Michael Jackson must be pissed!

    (You know, he owns the rights to the Beatles songs)

    --

    Curb CO2 emissions: Kill yourself today!

    1. Re:Damn... by Bobman1235 · · Score: 3, Informative

      He sold most of them back a few years ago. Paul McCartney owns most of them now.

    2. Re:Damn... by FatRatBastard · · Score: 5, Informative

      Not true. He went 50/50 with Sony music in purchasing them. He has since used his share as collateral with some loans he has taken out from Sony. Sony are licking their chops because there's no way MJ is going to pay off what he owes. Eventually (whenever they decide to call in the loan) Sony will own 'em all. But, as of right now MJ still has a 50% stake in them.

    3. Re:Damn... by FatRatBastard · · Score: 3, Informative

      I also meant to say I think MJ/Sony only own the Beatles' earlier songs. I believe the later ones are owned by Paul and Yoko (but I could be wrong about this).

  7. I overheard... by blackmonday · · Score: 3, Funny

    Even Darl McBride knows this lawsuit sucks. He owns the Unix code in the IPod, after all.

  8. These agreements can really screw you up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    World Wrestling Federation had to change their name to World Wrestling Entertainment because of an agreement they made with World Wildlife Fund to not use WWF internationally. Internet took off, Wrestling ended up at wwf.com, and Wildlife (wwf.org) sued. Bye bye Federation.

    1. Re:These agreements can really screw you up by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How quaint. That sort of classification died when netscape introduced its autocompletion feature, and when the register started to promote buying domain.com, domain.net and domain.org in a "package" deal.

      The autocompletion feature is the most problematic-- as the "World Wide Fund" owns the senior mark. But every time a user typed "wwf" in his address bar, the site reflecting the "junior trademark" would be loaded. Instant trademark dilution.

    2. Re:These agreements can really screw you up by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 3, Funny
      World Wrestling Federation had to change their name to World Wrestling Entertainment

      But why did they have to pick the unfortunate choice of Entertainment? Saying that an athletic contest is just mere entertainment is a gross oversimplification. It just serves to cheapen the image of all of the dedicated athletes through history who have strived against adversity to be the best they could be. Surely the WW"E" could have honored their athletes better, along with all of the world's athletes regardless of their sport, by picking a name more fitting of their noble purpose.

  9. Re:For Christs's Sake by MisterFancypants · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It isn't like this is a surpise patent suit or anything. Apple knew about this trademark issue when they first named the company and they signed an agreement to stay away from the music business. They broke the agreement, so tough luck Apple... that's the way it goes when you break a legal contract.

  10. I Can't Believe This by Shefwed82 · · Score: 3, Flamebait

    As a huge Beatles fan and new Mac user I have to say that this is an outrage. Right now I am embarrassed to say that the Beatles are my favorite music group. iTunes has been out for how long? The iPod has been in production for how long? And only now are they deciding to bring this to court.

    This seems like a desperate move to gain money and alienate fans. They have certainly alienated this fan. I can't see myself spending another penny on anything Beatles related, just because of this suit. I hope that others will do the same.

    1. Re:I Can't Believe This by cbreaker · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I still like the Beatles. I'm sure this has very little to do with the still-alive members of the Beatles, and more to do with the corporate losers at this Apple record label joke-of-a-company.

      --
      - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
    2. Re:I Can't Believe This by revividus · · Score: 4, Funny
      This seems like a desperate move to gain money and alienate fans

      A desperate move to alienate fans?

      So that's how money is made in the music business. :-)

    3. Re:I Can't Believe This by sahala · · Score: 2, Insightful
      What I am saying is that maybe if a lot of people don't buy the music then Apple Records will get the point and stop making these lawsuits.

      Riiiiiiiiiiiight. And what's a lot? 5, 10? As much as I support voting with your dollar I don't think it will be effective in this case. If you're so upset about this decision, write to Apple Records and tell them that the music business and computer business can be complementary and that this lawsuit looks like a cheap way to get extra bucks from Apple.

    4. Re:I Can't Believe This by Kenja · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Your right, how dare Apple Records expect Apple Computers to comply with the legal documents they signed promising to not sell music.

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
  11. Hmmm, $50 Million so far... by Read+Icculus · · Score: 2, Funny

    Now I know why they've been charging an arm and a leg for those G5s. If they didn't gouge the consumer so effectively they'd never be able to afford to keep on breaking the trademark agreement they signed with the Beatles.

    --
    Anti-social? My code is just platform-specific.
  12. Hate to be so out-of-touch with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    But when I saw that Apple was using applemusic.com, I'd had it figured that they must have bought out Apple Corps right to the trademark. I'm quite surprised they didn't, and now it does look like they really are at the losing end of a trademark battle that's extremely clear on the merits.

  13. Confusion.. by epiphani · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm confused by this. The article repeatedly states that The Beatles are sueing apple. It doesnt state that the Beatles former Label, Apple Corp, is suing them.

    The Beatles songs and the economic copyrights (all revenue generated by) are owned by Micheal Jackson. Is he involved in this, him being technically the owner of all things 'Beatles' anymore.

    Who is sueing who here? Can someone please clarify?

    --
    .
    1. Re:Confusion.. by neverkevin · · Score: 3, Informative

      I believe you are incorrect, Micheal Jackson just owns the publishing rights to the Beatles songs, not the actual recorded songs. see

    2. Re:Confusion.. by jpellino · · Score: 4, Informative

      Michael Jackson bought the rights to the library of songs. This has nothing to do with those or him.

      Apple Corps - after the music library was transferred to other companies - owns the Apple trademark in US, UK, Switzerland for music production and manages all subsequent performances of the partners- Paul, RIngo, George and Yoko - from that point on. Those four (actually through their reps including Yoko) hold 25% of the corporation.
      Apple Corps has subsidiaries including Apple Records CA, Apple Records NY, Apple Music Publishing, Apple Films, Python Music, Maclen Music, & Subafilms.
      They went thru this when the put the Ensoniq chip in the IIGS.
      They have something of a point on the trademark confusion if AAPL continues to use "AppleMusic", but the consensus is (though they do not disclose actual earnings) is that Apple Corps loses money most years, so this could be a fishing expedition for some no-work income. Memo to Darl McBride...
      I bet this could be ironed out over a long lunch by reasonable people.
      And/or (duh) they could release their records since the end of the Beatles library to ITMS and make some money from it as well as sales.

      --
      "Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
  14. Huh? Now I'm confused by Dhrakar · · Score: 5, Funny

    Uh, Wait just a minute... How can the Beatles be suing Apple if they are giving away an iPod with each Beatle sold? ;-)

  15. How utterly annoying for Apple Computer by cbreaker · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I mean seriously. When the agreement was first made, who knew which direction computers would take. Apple isn't being a record label, they are simply selling devices for playing music and distributing music from the record companies.

    Give me a break. I still can't believe that an earlier suit was won against Apple Computer because they included speakers with their PC.

    Something's gotta give here. Hopefully some judge will step in and say "This is retarded. Case dismissed."

    --
    - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
    1. Re:How utterly annoying for Apple Computer by Cplus · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Well, what record labels do is distribute music. So if Apple Computers is getting into the music distribution business they need to find another name as Apple Music has to be considered one of the most established of record labels.

      Branding, while not important to me, is understandably important to a corporate or business entity as that is how they are identified. I couldn't start an ebook distribution company called Scholastic Ebooks, certainly Scholastic the publishing company would have something to say.

      I think we just have a (1)negative first reaction to lawsuits and (2) Apple computers is much more in our minds than Apple Music. That shouldn't negate Apple Music's rights to keep their branding untarnished.

      --
      "Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality." -- Dalai Lama
    2. Re:How utterly annoying for Apple Computer by GigsVT · · Score: 2

      Yeah, except that Apple is an incredibly common word. You can't trademark random common words, and then expect everyone else to stop calling things that. It's insanity.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    3. Re:How utterly annoying for Apple Computer by cbreaker · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If it was called "Glosprinklewisterfed Music" then I could buy that, but since the word "Apple" is an extremely common English word, well, then I can't.

      There's many many companies out there with the same name elements, and many of them even do similar things. They don't sue each other because not many of them are billion dollar companies like Apple Computer. That's the only reason this lawsuit exists.

      --
      - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
  16. Apple Is Dying by daeley · · Score: 4, Funny

    I think we can now safely transfer the "Apple Is Dying" meme from Apple Computer to Apple Records.

    --
    I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
    1. Re:Apple Is Dying by 7759-60784-1-E · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Safer transfer than you'd think. Apple Records already died, several decades ago.

  17. How does that make any sense? by why-is-it · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Look, the Beatles were arguably the greatest band ever. Their music is amazing. But I have never confussed their record company with the guys in Cupertino who make computers.

    NOT EVEN ONCE!

    This strikes me as Apple (the record company) being a bunch of greedy bastards. They sued because Apple computers couple play music over external speakers - and won? I suspect that they are looking for another payday, and given past history, will probably get it.

    I would wager that if you walked up to a person on the street and asked them what they think about apple, they are probably going to talk about fruit or computers more often than they talk about record companies...

    --
    *** Where are we going? And what's with this handbasket?
    1. Re:How does that make any sense? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I would wager that if you walked up to a person on the street and asked them what they think about apple, they are probably going to talk about fruit or computers more often than they talk about record companies...

      True now. But not true in 1976 when Jobs intentionally stole Apple Corp's trademark.

    2. Re:How does that make any sense? by kaltkalt · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, the argument is, you never confused Apple computer with Apple Music because the agreement was that they'd do separate things, and that apple computer would not enter the music industry. Now, Apple Computer has entered the music industry with iMusic. The article even says they're calling it "Apple Music." So, I hate to say it, but apple music (the beatles) does have a good case here. They've won worse cases in the past (such as apple computer shipping speakers with their computers).

      That being said, these companies have been around so long, anyone who is confused needs to be shot and have his wallet taken away from him.

      --

      Stupid people make stupid things profitable.
    3. Re:How does that make any sense? by Strudelkugel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This strikes me as Apple (the record company) being a bunch of greedy bastards

      Given the way the RIAA has been behaving lately, this shouldn't come as a surprise. Pretty soon we will be able to look forward to a "Behind the Music Label" expose. Somebody, somewhere is going to write a book about the thinking of the RIAA/majors during this time. I suspect it will be a stunning read, as in "How could they be so clueless?!?"

      --
      Imagine how much harder physics would be if electrons had feelings! -Feynman, maybe
  18. Maybe I can be the first to suggest ... by jc42 · · Score: 4, Funny

    This is obviously just an attempt by Apple Corps to be bought out. ;-)

    --
    Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  19. Apple Computer needs to settle. by vegetablespork · · Score: 5, Interesting

    After they've C&D'd everybody and their brother for making Aqua skins, providing a workaround to allow folks to use their DVD writing software, and various other "intellectual property" based "offenses," they're hypocrites to not respect the other Apple's "intellectual property."

    --

    Call (206) 338-5780 COLLECT for information about a genuine BA, BS, MA, MS, MBA, or Ph.D.

    1. Re:Apple Computer needs to settle. by 11223 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'll bite on the first one. Those people were using graphics taken directly from OS X, which is pretty much copyright violation. You don't do that. Notice that Red Hat, GNOME, et al put copyright on their logos et al.

      After the incident most of the themes were regenerated from scratch, and there hasn't been an issue since.

      The DVD thing is bad, yeah.

    2. Re:Apple Computer needs to settle. by Maniakes · · Score: 4, Funny

      Maybe Apple Computer should sue Apple Corp. for copying the look and feel of their lawsuits.

      --
      A legparnasom tele van angolnaval.
    3. Re:Apple Computer needs to settle. by Graymalkin · · Score: 2, Informative

      Apple went after Zettabyte because they were blatantly violating iDVD's license. They were putting SDs in the eMacs and distributing them with pirated copies of iDVD. If you bought one of those eMacs you were buying a pirated copy of iDVD because its license required it to come with a Mac originally including a SD.

      The C&D letters to the makers of Aqua skins were not presented for copying Aqua's look and feel. The first round of skins were pixmaps made from screenshots of OSX. When people generated their own buttons via GIMP/Photoshop/PSP Apple didn't go after them.

      If you're going to try to make a point at least get your facts straight, not straight from Slashdot.

      --
      I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
  20. Confused?!?! by mdfalzon · · Score: 4, Funny

    I don't know about anyone else, but, I can see Apple Music's point....I mean, when I look for music, I'm geniunly confused about between which company is the music rights holder for the beatles, and which one has a library of a couple hundred thousand songs for $0.99/piece that also owns one of the three major platforms of personal computers!! I mean, how confusing can it get?!?!?!

  21. Apple Records WWW presence by wembley · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Well, it's not like Apple Records is doing much in tech or on the web. Their web site is kind of spartan...

    I wonder what they're running that Apache 1.3.26 on...

    --

    Share and Enjoy!

    1. Re:Apple Records WWW presence by Cplus · · Score: 2, Funny

      Actually they have another website at applecorps.com. It's much more of a modern multimedia experience.

      --
      "Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality." -- Dalai Lama
  22. RTFA People!!!! by boarder · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Man, did any of you read the article? Yes, the law suits in the past were pretty silly... involving a computer's speakers making them "in the music business."

    That is not the case today. Apple Computer has been sued and lost twice already to the tune of $50 million. Now they open a website named AppleMusic which sells music. If that doesn't put them in the music business, I don't know what does. Not only that, but AppleMusic could easily be confused with Apple Corp's music business.

    This is a stupid mistake by a company that KNOWS they will lose a suit (since it has happened in the past with much more obscure violations). In those other suits, I would've sided with Apple Computer but not in this one.

    --
    IANAL, but I play one on /.
    1. Re:RTFA People!!!! by Spy+Hunter · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What do you want them to do? Give up this hugely profitable and innovative business just because some company is going to file a lawsuit? Music is practically the core of Apple's strategy lately, and they can't give it up no matter what it costs them. They'll just have to suck it up and pay out to the leeches at Apple records. What they would do if they were smart is negotiate a new contract this time so they don't get sued in the future, because Apple's music strategy is not going away.

      --
      main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
  23. Things will get worse by yintercept · · Score: 5, Funny

    Now that Apple computers make music there is confusion between the Apple label and Apple computers.

    Things are going to get a lot worse when we start hooking up Macs to food replicators and order lunch by saying:

    "Computer, a Big Mac, Fries and a Coke..."

    There will also be trademark confusion when trucking companies start using autopilots for their long haul routes. You'll see Macs driving Mack Trucks.

    Brand confusion will get ugly I tell ya.

    1. Re:Things will get worse by Lee+Cremeans · · Score: 2, Informative

      I dunno if they actually sued, but the phrase "Macintosh is a trademark of McIntosh Laboratory, Inc. and is being used with express permission of its owner" appeared in mid-late 1980s Apple documentation. I have an old ImageWriter II manual in front of me (copyright 1985) that shows this notice, and IIRC the first Mac ads had it as well.

      It seems to have fallen out of use with time, so I guess there was some sort of agreement reached...I'll have to check the manual for my PowerMac at home (which is 1995-1996 vintage) to double check.

      -lee

  24. Re:Apple Sauce by Stonent1 · · Score: 3, Funny

    "So Mr. Jobs, how do you like dem apples?"

    BANG!

    Jobs: Apple sauce, bitch



    Actually Ringo Starr means applesauce in Japanese.

  25. Silliness by tessaiga · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Fox News pointed out that a lawsuit on this was inevitable back in June.

    Frankly, I think it's silly. When you say "Apple" and "music" in the same breath, what comes to mind, the IPod or an old Beatles record label? I hadn't even heard of them before this.

    The whole thing kinda reminds me of the old GIF patent lawsuits. The "legal insider" from the article was quoted as saying, "When it first happened with the iPod, we said, 'What could they be thinking?'" If it really bugged them, why didn't they say something right at the launch -- why wait until now? Sounds a bit like, "Hmm, let's keep quiet on this for now; maybe we'll get lucky and IPods'll take off. Once they're established and Apple can't just spin the idea off to some other company, then we can sic the lawyers on'em again!

    --
    The bold print giveth, and the fine print taketh away ...
  26. Now I know we love apple and hate the RIAA, but... by stomv · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... if the two groups did have an agreement, signed by both parties, it would seem pretty open and shut.

    The question I have is: why? Why wouldn't Apple spin off some other company named Golden Delicious Music, or produce the iPod by Granny Smith or something? They pay their lawyers to come up with stuff like this, no?

    Seems like Apple Computers knowingly breached a contract. Blatently. Seems like poor managerial decision making.

  27. Lawyer Math by tuxedobob · · Score: 2, Funny

    10 million songs * $.33 profit/song = $3.3 million profit. So.... sue for $57million damages.

    This is a violation of an agreement/contract, so Apple (Comp) should pay something, or forge a new contract, but hopefully it'll be something reasonable.

    After all, Apple (Records) has to have some songs in iTMS that are making money. Like... uh... wait, Apple Records is still around?

  28. Re:You should be embarrassed by Concerned+Onlooker · · Score: 4, Funny

    Stop talking trash about Glenn Miller or I'll run a String of Pearls through your nose. Now Take the A Train outta here or I'll sing you a Moonlight Serenade, and you don't want that.

    --
    http://www.rootstrikers.org/
  29. Insightful?! by SolubleFrank · · Score: 2, Funny

    Mod parent '+5 sorrowful'

    --
    Feed me a stray cat.
  30. Maybe they should hire Paul ? by polished+look+2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You know what would be neat is if the two companies merged on this issue and Apple Computer and Apple Corps worked together to provide songs to the public as this is the sort of thing that John, Paul, George and Ringo envisioned when they started Apple Corps.

  31. Re:Apple who? by pyrrhonist · · Score: 2, Insightful
    But it's not just me, you can ask anyone!

    Yeah, if, "anyone", means, "person under 30".

    --
    Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
  32. This goes back to the early days of Apple by ScottGant · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I agree with the Beatles...this goes back to the early days of Apple in which Jobs and Woz asked if they could use the Apple name...since it was associated with Apple Corps back then. The Beatles said they could use it as long as they didn't get into the music biz.

    Now, it may be frivolous, but iTunes is in the music business. The Beatles may not need the money, but it's the thought that counts.

    I could be wrong...but I'm a Beatle fan first, and a computer fan second.

    --

    "Music is everybody's possession. It's only publishers who think that people own it." - John Lennon.
    1. Re:This goes back to the early days of Apple by Stargoat · · Score: 5, Informative
      The Beatles don't control Apple Records anymore. I believe that EMI controls Apple.

      Interesting

      --
      Hoist Number One and Number Six.
    2. Re:This goes back to the early days of Apple by UniverseIsADoughnut · · Score: 3, Informative

      " The Beatles don't control Apple Records anymore. I believe that EMI controls Apple."

      I belive Micheal Jackson controls all the beatles works. So I would say he is sueing Apple.

      IE: A fruit is sueing another fruit.

    3. Re:This goes back to the early days of Apple by vistas · · Score: 3, Funny

      And I bet you don't want to work, you just want to bang on your drum all day--eh?

      uh, that was Todd Rundgren, not the Beatles.

      kinda like the Beatles
      And that was, Three Dog Night, I think... ;-)

    4. Re:This goes back to the early days of Apple by Surlyboi · · Score: 2, Funny

      Considering he's broke, I can see
      why he's suing, he needs the cash and he doesn't
      want to part with the bones of the Elephant man.

      Bubbles has taken a "no comment" stance though...

      --
      Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine...
    5. Re:This goes back to the early days of Apple by blowdart · · Score: 5, Informative
      I belive Micheal Jackson controls all the beatles works

      Whacko had the rights to most of the lyrics a while back, but sold them to Sony.

      The way music licensing works is generally as follows

      The tune / lyrics belong to whoever wrote them, and these are licensed to a specific publisher. Note that this may not be the label, it can be a seperate company, or in some cases, a part of a company (for example EMI have EMI publishing which licenses tunes and lyrics)

      The record label in turn owns the rights to a particular recording of that music, be it a studio track, or a live track.

      So whilst Sony own the rights to the beatles lyrics, EMI (through Apple Music) own the rights to recordings of those things.

      And that's the simple version, it gets very very messy very quickly when band swap labels, perform live or the song writer moves between publishers.

    6. Re:This goes back to the early days of Apple by mjpaci · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And that's the simple version, it gets very very messy very quickly when band swap labels, perform live or the song writer moves between publishers.

      Which is why, for example, you can pickup an Elvis' Greatest Hits and it won't have "You ain't nothing but a hound dog!" or a Sinatra Greatest Hits that doesn't have "My Way."

    7. Re:This goes back to the early days of Apple by mjpaci · · Score: 2, Funny

      Picture Bill Gates as Magneto and Steve Jobs as Professor X.

      God, am I a geek...

      Besides, I thought Microsoft owns 70% of Apple since Jobs sold it to him in 1997... (just kidding)

    8. Re:This goes back to the early days of Apple by Stackster · · Score: 4, Funny

      It really has nothing to do with any of the Beatles songs, but the rights to the name "Apple", which is now own3d by EMI.

      But what will come out of this?
      -EMI losing, since the record company Apple essentially doesn't exist (is declared partially rotten and is discarded)
      -HugeCashSettlement (let's give more money to the large record companies!)
      -Apple starts a subsidiary (Banana or Pineapple) and transfers all music-related things there
      -Name is changed to The Computer Company Formerly Known As Apple (TCCFKAS)
      -Apple uses the Chewbacca defense

      --

      There are 010 kinds of people. Those who understand octal, those who don't, and 06 other kinds of morons.
    9. Re:This goes back to the early days of Apple by ziriyab · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I belive Micheal Jackson controls all the beatles works. So I would say he is sueing Apple.

      Owning the copyright to The Beatles' music is not the same as owning the Beatles' record company. Michael Jackson purchased the rights to the songs from Apple Records. Now, unles he's also bought the company since then, Michael Jackson doesn't own Apple Records, or its holding company (Apple Corps), and so he isn't suing Apple Computers.

      If you buy a wrench from Home Depot, do you own Home Depot?

    10. Re:This goes back to the early days of Apple by AdamD1 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Owning the copyright to The Beatles' music is not the same as owning the Beatles' record company. Michael Jackson purchased the rights to the songs from Apple Records.

      Actually neither of these is true:

      Michael Jackson's involvement in the Beatles' music has to do with copyright of the songs, which was owned at the time (1987 - 1989) by ATV music. ATV as a company sold all the rights to the Beatles actual songs to Michael Jackson (or rather, a company he ran.) There was furious bidding for this which also involved Paul McCartney and Yoko Ono. Jackson's company won it. For a long time afterward nothing was actually done with the ATV catalogue. It's important to note that ATV only owned the songs penned by Lennon / McCartney, none of George Harrison's songs are in that catalogue.

      Also of interest: ATV owns numerous other artists works, not just the Beatles.

      This site has a really good breakdown of who owned what before the purchase, and what it all means.

      http://www.snopes.com/music/artists/jackson.htm

      My point: NONE OF THIS has anything to do with Apple Corps., which was a record label and not a publishing company. Apple Corps. is still a functioning company, they just released the DVD version of the Beatles Anthology TV series. Very much alive and well (and making billions of dollars.)

      There ya go.

      ad

      --
      Because I can! [Brainrub.com]
  33. What has Apple Corps Done, Lately? by swdunlop · · Score: 5, Interesting


    Aside from popping up every ten years to sue Apple Computers, has Apple Corps actually put out any sort of product? A quick Google for Apple Corps brings up several other sites long before Apple Corps' placeholder website; has Apple Corps made an effort to protect its trademark, aside from prosecuting this single case?

    Some of the hits on Google, in order of appearance:



    I understand that Apple Corps has a standing agreement with Apple Computer, and Apple Computer is very likely in breach of that contract with iTunes and iPod because, as was true in the infamous speaker case, the contract was worded so loosely that if a Macintosh makes a sound, it's in breach. But, has this company actually done anything with itself, or taken any measures to protect its trademark from much more egregious infringements by organizations with shallower pockets?
    1. Re:What has Apple Corps Done, Lately? by toast- · · Score: 2, Informative

      Correction, my mouse got nasty, list is to read:

      (2003) Beatles Anthology DVD release (#1 dvd charts)
      (2001)George Harrison's "All Things Must Pass" re-release, also owned by Apple Records.
      (2000) - Imagine (John Lennon) remastered
      (2000)Beatles "1" CD release , over 30,000,000 copies sold.
      (1999) Beatles "Yellow Submarine" DVD cartoon and CD/LP re-issue (Remastered)
      1998 - "White Album" limited edition (big apple records label on this one!)
      1996 - Beatles Anthology 3
      1996 - George Harrison "Electronic Sound"
      1995 - Beatles Anthology 2
      1995 - Ringo Starr CD Apple CDPAS 10002 Beaucoup Of Blues
      1995 - Beatles Anthology 1
      1994 - Beatles "Live at the BBC"
      6/92 George Harrison CD Apple CDSAPCOR 1 Wonderwall Music
      27/01/92 George Harrison CD Apple CDPAS 10006 Living in the Material World
      27/01/92 George Harrison CD Apple CDPAS 10008 Dark Horse
      27/01/92 George Harrison CD Apple CDPAS 10009 Extra Texture - Read All About
      1991 - Magic Christian Music 1970
      18/05/87 George Harrison CD Apple CDS 7 46688 2 All Things Must Pass
      18/05/87 George Harrison CD Apple CDS 7 46688 2 All Things Must Pass
      26/05/87 John Lennon CD Apple CDP 7 46641 2 Imagine
      4/08/87 Beatles CD Apple CDP 7 46443 8 White Album
      19/10/87 Beatles CD Apple CDP 7 46446 8 Abbey Road
      19/10/87 Beatles CD Apple CDP 7 46447 8 Let It Be

      Mind you keep in mind many of the above 'parlophone' records of any product created by Beatles during the Apple days are also owned by Apple.. and they have a hand in the penny jar for those too!

  34. Smacking lightly of stupid... by softspokenrevolution · · Score: 3, Insightful

    All right, so most people in the computing community probably have no idea what Apple Records are. ANd those people that do look at a lot of record labels when they buy their beatles albums, certainly didn't put the CD down (if they were windows users) and say, "Oh god, apple makes this, it should die as the unholy rot it is."

    Clearly there shouldn't be an issue here, but the thing is that the first ruling was stupid. But apple signed an agreement that said they wouldn't intrude on the music business.

    That's where apple is stuck, they will settle and they'll continue on as normal. Seriously, no one would confuse the two, primarily because one is a music distributor (through ITunes) and one is a music producer (who has how many bands represented).

    If companies weren't companies than this thing would be solved more amicably. As they are however, companies, and one signed an agreement to not do what it is doing. Tough for apple, then again now they probably have a little more money to fight or settle this thing to their end.

  35. In Other News... by jetkust · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...A talking apple is suing Apple Computers for using the name Macintosh. As its primary defense, Apple Computers pointed out that the apple in question was actually a fiji, and had no such ownership of the trademark. The Apple lawyers had a hard time proving their case, however, as the apple's main defense was to turn into an inanimate object every time a question was asked...

  36. The issue wasn't the domain name... by cyberwench · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The issue was that World Wrestling Federation was using the "WWF" name in a context they'd agreed not to use it in. That's what the agreement was about. World Wildlife Fund had been around for ages before WWE came into being, and it seemed more than reasonable of them to allow WWE to use "WWF" within a limited context. When they started using it in a more expanded context, WWF understandably objected.

    Ok, so I'm a nature-geek, but I thought it was pretty cool that they won that case. I figured with all the money WWE had, WWF wouldn't have a chance.

    Here's a decent article on the subject: WWF Responds to Name Change

    --
    ~ Leilah
  37. Sorry, but the G5 is a good value by TheInternet · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Now I know why they've been charging an arm and a leg for those G5s.

    $3,000 for a 64-bit, 2GHz, dual processor unix workstation that runs consumer apps, has a great Java development environment and burns DVDs?

    Seems like a good value to me.

    If they didn't gouge the consumer so effectively

    You do understand the difference between "not dirt cheap" and "gouging," right? Nobody has to buy a G5, but Apple invests more in creating and manufacturing a product than Dell does, so they believe it's worth more. I happen to agree, but you, of course, don't have to.

    If everyone just assembled components and sold them as dirt cheap boxes, the industry would be even more stagnant than it already is. Fortunately, we have Apple.

    - Scott

    --
    Scott Stevenson
    Tree House Ideas
  38. Sosumi was before that by yerricde · · Score: 2, Informative

    Sosumi.'snd ' was in Mac OS 7.0. The Power Macintosh computers didn't come out until well into the 7.2 cycle.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
  39. Is it me? by agent+dero · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Or has somebody else never heard of Apple records before the /. story?

    Maybe it's cause I am young, whoops.

    --
    Error 407 - No creative sig found
  40. Ai Yi IEEE! by ThePatrioticFuck · · Score: 5, Funny
    Thank you very much all you Apple iTunes downloaders, you just paid for the next Yoko Ono album!

    TPF

    1. Re:Ai Yi IEEE! by Darby · · Score: 3, Funny

      Thank you very much all you Apple iTunes downloaders, you just paid for the next Yoko Ono album!

      In the name of all that is decent in this world I hope that is a joke with no basis in realty.

  41. Apple Computer Doesn't Care... by tyhockett · · Score: 5, Insightful
    A few notes:

    1. I'm sure everyone at Apple remembers clearly how much money they lost in previous Beatles' law suits
    2. Moving into the music business was certainly not a bad business decision by Apple management
    3. I'll bet that somewhere in the business plan for ITMS, there is a proforma with a line item for "Paying off ensuing Beatles' law suit... $many Millions"
    4. The offense is trademark offense is clear cut, and Apple Computer will lose or settle
    5. Life will go on, Apple Computer will stay in the music business, and will continue to make money
  42. Trademark point? by mindstrm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is about an agreement made between the two parties, not about the trademark, even if that's what started it.

    If Apple Computers agreed to stay out of the music busines.. you get the picture.

    Nowadays, nobody will confuse Apple with Apple.. but in the day when Apple Records decided to settle out of court with Apple Computers.. it was a different story.

  43. Imagine.. by toast- · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Imagine if you started a company, 20 years ago, called it Microsoft, and started selling Music.

    Do you think that would go over well with Microsoft, the software manufacturer?

    Apple Computer was started when the name "Apple Records" was very fresh in the minds of most music lovers in the world. They asked to use the name, got in trouble back then with Apple Records, and lost. Plain and simple. They therefore had a legal precedent that essentially should have made them negotiate with Apple Records if they ever decided to enter the music business.. and obviously they didn't, all because Apple Records continues to be a very well known and popluar selling record label! (Do note that the Beatles '1' album has sold over 30,000,000 copies, and Apple continues to release new compliations that continue to sell very well -- Apple records does make good money!)

    The reason many of us won't confuse Apple Computer from Apple Records is because we are all GEEKS. Your mom isn't, and frankly, non-geeks (most of the rest of the world) could get confused, hence, I feel strongly in favour of Apple Records.

  44. Blown opportunity for Apple Records by azpcox · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Talk about a blown opportunity for Apple Records!! All they needed to do was negotiate a hugely favorable agreement to sell music via iTMS and voila! they not only make gobs of money that way, they come out looking like the good guys.

    They way it is now, everyone looks pretty silly. Apple (computers) for not taking care of this earlier and Apple (records) for waiting this long and looking like money grabbers.

    And when iTunes for Windows comes out, maybe ther'll be another lawsuit files to make up for this lost opportunity...

    And who are the beatles again? I think my parents listened to them.... :)

    --
    What exactly do you mean by "Don't touch this button?"
  45. that's Beatles... not VW Beetles... by opcenter · · Score: 2, Funny

    I thought this was going to be something about those silly VW Beetle commercials with iPods. I guess the new beetles don't look as much like Yellow Submarines as their ancestors.

  46. Slightly OT, but..... by Y-Crate · · Score: 3, Interesting

    When was the last time Apple Records did anything but repackage Beatles music? You never hear of anyone being signed to Apple Records, the last Apple Records artist I can remember releasing anything was Badfinger.

  47. Say it ain't so, *Ringo*!! by lwagner · · Score: 3, Funny

    Darl McBride has corrupted Ringo with his business model!

    Why do I have this strange sensation that Jobs is going to say "Sosumi" ?

  48. Re:Now I know we love apple and hate the RIAA, but by schuster · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You're not the first slashdotter to ask that question, but think about it. How many Apple is dying trolls do you see every time a new apple story comes out? the iTMS/iPod are as much about profits as they are about getting the Apple name out there and telling people that it's okay to buy Apple products and that they're not going out of business. It's all about making the Apple name cool, and that iTMS/iPod go a very long way toward making that happen.

    --
    --- Don't ever trust a woman until she's dead- B.B. King
  49. Re:You should be embarrassed by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 2, Insightful
    " Right now I am embarrassed to say that the Beatles are my favorite music group."

    That would be embarassing regardless of any lawsuits.

    I mean, its like sayiing "Glen Miller" is my favorite group. Both are equally relevant to today's music scene.

    Which is unfortunate, as it may explain why today's music scene is comprised almost exclusively of crap. Today's music is at a low point worse than that of the late 70s, and there's nothing new coming on the horizon to bail it out.

  50. The real History of Apple Corps. Ltd by dafz1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Apple Records was started in 1968 as a tax shelter for the Beatles. The tax laws in Britain at the time took 95% of the profits from sales(hence the line "It's one for you, nineteen for me" from Tax Man). The White Album, Yellow Submarine, Abbey Road, Let it Be, and Hey Jude are all Apple Records albums.

    When the Beatles were legally dissolved in 1974, Apple Corps continued. The judge ordered the profits divided 5% to each member, 80% to the holding company. They continued making money with the 1962 - 1966 and 1967 - 1970 albums until the mid-80's, and then started making money again with the release of the Anthologies and "1" album in 2000.

    Ok...all the history aside...notice they sue when they stop making money...hmmm.... Co-incidence or bad timing by Apple Computer? Here's an idea...since Beatles music isn't on the net yet...work out a deal to get the music on iTMS. Oh wait...they wouldn't profit from it.

    Paul...why did you talk Michael into buying music rights? You could have had the whole catalog for a decent price. For those of you that don't know...while recording "Say Say Say", Paul McCartney told Michael Jackson to invest by buying rights to music.

  51. This would be funnier if it were, you know, TRUE by danaris · · Score: 2, Informative

    It's true that "ringo" means Apple. However, not only can you not directly write "Starr" in Japanese (the closest you can come is "sutaa" or "sutaru"), nothing like it means "sauce," so far as I know. Generally, when a Japanese person wants to say "sauce," they say "soosu", (and that's a long "o", not an "u" sound). They pronounce it pretty much like we do. It's a loan word.

    I will admit that it's possible that there's a Japanese word I don't know that means "sauce" and sounds like "Starr," but if so, I don't think it's a common one.

    Dan Aris

    --
    Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
  52. kraftwerk was more influential in the long run by dj_virto · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So the Beatles created a few new subgenres of rock? So what... How about a band that helped spawn the next phase, post-rock evolution of music- Kraftwerk.

  53. Whats The Big Deal? by Nightbrood · · Score: 3, Insightful

    IANAL but owning my own business and consulting for several others I think things are pretty cut and dry from a business stand point.

    This is not about Apple Records crying foul over trademark or copyright infringements but is moreover most likely related to the laws governing incorporation of a business. If Apple Records was already registed in California as Apple Inc. or something similar Apple Computer would had to have gotten permission from Apple Records to be incorporated under a similar name.

    Most companies will let this happen but only if the company wanting to incorporate under a similar name agrees not to enter its market. This appears to be exactly what Apple Music asked of Apple Computer and Apple Computer obliged. So we really should not be making Apple Music into another big bad ligitation-happy corporation because they are simply enforcing the agreement Apple Computer willingly signed.

    Now whether we feel the merits of the lawsuits are justified is not important in contract law. The only thing that is important is whether the contract is legally binding and enforcable. It seems as if it is and Apple Computer has willingly cornered itself in its business strategy.

    After all who would of thought of music on personal computers back in the early 80's.

    Therefore instead of getting upset with Apple Records we should all see that Apple Computers latest lawsuit is one that they knew would be coming and have probably set aside some money to pay Apple Music off. Just don't be surprised if Apple Records wants some sort of royalties from iPods or something of the like.

    Finally I repeat even though we may not like it Apple Music is merely enforcing its contract that was mutually agreed to by Apple Computer.

  54. Irrelevant - it's a contract suit, not trademark by AJWM · · Score: 4, Informative

    The thing is, when Apple Corps first sued Apple Computer over the Apple trademark, Apple Corps was by far the better known and Apple Computer was this wierd little company producing expensive little 8-bit computers that most people couldn't figure a use for,

    As part of the settlement of that lawsuit, Apple Computer agreed not to sell music. It's that settlement agreement -- a contract -- that Apple Corps is charging Apple Computer with violating.

    Sure, today Apple Corps probably wouldn't stand much chance in a trademark suit against Apple Computer, even if they did have the trademark first. But that's not what this lawsuit is about.

    --
    -- Alastair
  55. Sosumi by ePhil_One · · Score: 4, Funny

    I recall one of the first Mac beep sounds was entitled "Sosumi" (So-Sue-Me) because technically they were violating that agreement

    --
    You are in a maze of twisted little posts, all alike.
  56. But that's not all! by LafinJack · · Score: 2, Funny

    After Carl Sagan made a stink about his codename being on the 7100, Apple made up a new codename: BHA, for Butthead Astronomer. For some reason, Mr. Sagan, Lawyers & Co. were still a bit miffed.

    The final codename for the machine? LAW - Lawyers Are Wimps.

    --
    we are building a religion
    a limited edition
    we are now accepting callers
    for these pendant key chains
  57. Huh? by TheInternet · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The reason many of us won't confuse Apple Computer from Apple Records is because we are all GEEKS.

    You can't be serious.

    Apple is well known brand and has ads about the music store in mainstream media almost daily. When was the last time Apple Records advertised at all, or even published something?

    Do note that the Beatles '1' album has sold over 30,000,000 copies, and Apple continues to release new compliations that continue to sell very well -- Apple records does make good money!

    Ummm, are you sure about that? I think Michael Jackson owns the rights, and the "Beatles 1" album publisher is listed as Capitol. You might be right here, but I can't find anything that references Apple Records for that CD. Tell me if you can find a web site for Apple Records or Apple Corps Ltd.

    - Scott

    --
    Scott Stevenson
    Tree House Ideas
  58. Background Info by Infonaut · · Score: 4, Informative

    Apple Logos Dispute Settled
    LONDON (AP)
    Saturday, October 12, 1991

    A multimillion dollar trademark battle between Apple Computer Inc. and the Beatles' Apple Corps holding company over their similar corporate logos has ended with an out-of-court settlement.

    Apple Corps, formed by the Beatles in 1963 to manage their music rights, accused Apple Computer of violating a 1981 agreement by using its apple logo on music-synthesizing equipment.

    Apple Computer's logo features a horizontally striped apple with a bite out of it and a leaf on top, while the Apple Corp logo is an apple with a stalk on top.

    The two-year-old dispute centered on Apple Computer's musical instrument digital interface or Midi. Apple Corps contended the personal computer maker had agreed to use the apple logo only on computer equipment in order to avoid interfering with the British company's music business.

    Gordon Pollock, a lawyer for Apple Corps, said in the High Court on Friday that the companies had reached an amicable settlement.

    Apple Corps sued Apple Computer in the court last Oct. 29. "It has been a long, hard road," Pollock said. He said the terms of the settlement were confidential.

    The San Francisco Chronicle cited one report that it said called for Apple Computer to pay $29 million. The newspaper did not reveal the source of the report.

    Apple Computer, based in Cupertino, Calif., disclosed in July that it had put about $38 million in reserve to settle the litigation.

    Apple Corps is owned by the three surviving members of the Beatles Paul McCartney, George Harrison and Ringo Starr and by the estate of John Lennon, who was shot to death in New York in December 1980.

    London news reports said the case cost the two companies an estimated 7 million pounds ($11.9 million) in lawyers' fees and other costs.

    Apple Corps was asking for a worldwide ban on the use of the Apple Computer logo on music-synthesizing equipment designed by Apple Computer.

    Lawyers for Apple Computer argued that the agreement was unenforceable and that Apple Corps' claim violated the 1957 Treaty of Rome that set up the European Common Market.
    --

    --
    Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
  59. Fox News? by Arcady13 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    How come Fox News is the only outfit that has this story?

    I'd like to see someone else (credible) tell this story, if it is even true. I searched through over 500 comments and no one else has even questioned the validity of the story. And the only links on Google News lead back to the same story.

    Sorry, but I don't trust things that are only reported by one person, quoting a "source," especially if the person works for Fox News.

  60. The whole article is suspect by tychay · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's a sad day when MacCentral/Yahoo is reporting a rumor from Fox News as an actual news story.

    It seems every rumor regarding this is traceable to Fox News and Roger Friedman. Is there any other articles other that come from a source other than the two by this guy? (Yes, even the MacCentral article references this.)

    I'm suspicious because the article reports that the term Steve Jobs admitting "Apple Computer" came from Apple Records, as well as provides no background as to the relationship between the two companies (or if even Apple Records still exists after they were absorbed by Capitol).

    Perhaps I'm not up on my history, but I seem to remember that Apple was supposed to be the "third" Apple (after the Fruit from the Tree of Knowledge and Isaac Newton's story). In fact, the original logo was looked like a woodcut of Isaac Newton under an apple tree. It seems the author has done no research.

    Though Apple Records was formed as a holding company for the Beatles, I thought the trademark passed to EMI/Capitol. Why does the article claim that the Beatles are suing Apple? More sensationalist FOX B.S.? sloppy reporting? or am I in error?

    I have never heard a real company giving a comment about a lawsuit that hasn't even been served--Apple is not SCO.

    On another note, can anyone find the lawsuits between Apple Records and Apple Computing (I assume they're in England and not in Lexis/Nexis). I ask this because while I know that early lawsuits between Apple and Apple Records occurred, I don't have any evidence that Apple Records ever took Apple Computing up on the offer, "sosumi".

    1. Re:The whole article is suspect by Anita+Coney · · Score: 2, Informative

      The lawsuits occured in the US. You can't find them in lexis because no opinions were ever released. The parties settled the cases out of court.

      The first time Apple music sued Apple computers agreed to stay out of the music business and paid Apple music some money.

      The second time Apple music sued was when Apple computer started including sound cards, i.e., had the ability to play music. Apple computer paid Apple music about 50 million for the right to include sound cards.

      --
      If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
  61. I don't care too much for money.. by adeyadey · · Score: 2, Funny

    ..money can't buy me love..

    --
    "You lied to me! There is a Swansea!"
  62. Re:Irrelevant - it's a contract suit, not trademar by MrLint · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A computer isn't a breach anyway. Apple isn't making any music (other than perhaps incidental music for ads, which is prolly all farmed out anyway). The wording is important here. You can make music to your hearts content. You have no agreement with Apple records. Apple Computer has no agreement with Apple Records that it cannot be a retailer.

  63. URL campers? by drokus · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Home Page for Apple Corps Ltd
    This is a placeholder page only for Apple Corps Ltd. This site is not live at this time.

    Web and domain administrative e-mail only to postmaster@applecorpsltd.com.
    Please note that this is not a general AppleCorps mailbox.

  64. Re:Tradmark on "Apple"? by saddino · · Score: 2, Informative

    You're missing a fine point: "Windows" may be a "common word" but it also describes a generic UI element, hence "Windows" is a descriptive term. Descriptive terms cannot be trademarked, so Microsoft may have a problem here (unless they can defend that the term "Windows" has become synonymous with their product).

    "Apple" is a also a "common word" but it is not descriptive. "Apple" does not refer to anything in the computer realm, hence it is actually a very strong trademark (if "Apple" made apple products, then they'd be in the same situation as Microsoft -- but that's a poor hypothetical because a company that made apple products could never secure the trademark "Apple").

    Apple is no danger of losing their trademark in the field of computers. Their ability to use their trademark in the Music industry is what is being challenged (somewhat rightfully IMHO) here.

  65. Who are the Beatles? by photomic · · Score: 2, Funny

    iTunes Music Store has nothing by them. . .

  66. Apple, just buy EMI... by The+Lynxpro · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Not long ago, Apple came close to buying Universal Music from Vivendi Universal. Perhaps its time Apple makes a serious attempt at acquiring EMI wholly. The big music companies will inevitably consolidate again, quite possibly Warner Music and BMG if enough European Commissioners can be paid off this time 'round. With Warner/BMG together, that cuts out EMI's two choice merger partners. This whole lawsuit is an attempt by Apple Records/EMI to get a stake in future proceeds Apple makes off iTunes because they've been the only company with enough moxi (not to be confused with the PVR platform) to create a sensible commercial download distribution model. Although there could be a complication in the future. If Apple acquires EMI/majority stake in AppleCorps., Apple will still have to deal with Sony over their eventual ownership of the Beatles publishing rights. Sony probably doesn't have a strong desire to aid Apple in any endeavor as of this point...

    --
    "Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
  67. Apple Computer wants to be sued!! by EccentricAnomaly · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Here's my conspiracy theory...

    Apple Computer wants to be sued by Apple corp to that they can get out of the restriction against being in the music biz. Maybe they want to buy a label, maybe they want to start their own, maybe they want to burn music CDs on demand in the Apple store.....

    In LA, on the westside, where tons of music industry people and entertainment lawyers hang out there's a huge billboard with just a guitar, the words "Apple Music", and the Apple computer logo.... this billboard is a very minimalist way to say: "C'mon sue me, I dare you, pthbbtt!!!"

    This billboard and ads like it must have been designed to provoke this lawsuit. I mean c'mon, Apple's lawyers can't be so dumb as to let this one slip by.

    --
    There are 10 types of people in this world, those who can count in binary and those who can't.
  68. AppleMusic.com? by hethatishere · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Some people have pointed out that Apple is advertising the music service as the iTunes Store, which is probably a deliberate attempt to avoid using "Apple" in the name. However, in Apple's TV spots and advertising they consistently point towards "Applemusic.com" which in turn links directly to the iTunes product page. Could using AppleMusic.com as a referral impact this case in Apple Corporation's favor? I hope not. I like the Beatles, but this goes straight back into those words that companies feel they "own." Anyone else remember Microsoft vs. Windows. This case is different since Apple did sign an agreement, but I think the fact that it was an issue before highlights how overzealous some companies can be about protecting themselves and their "corporate image."

    --
    Something intelligent here.