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SGI Code Changes Not Enough, Says SCO
yeremein writes "According to this vnunet.com article, SCO's code changes Update: 10/04 20:51 GMT by T : (This should read "SGI's" rather than "SCO's.") removing arguably System-V-related code from SGI's Linux submissions is 'not enough.' According to Blake Stowell of SCO,
'Making minor amendments to its XFS file system doesn't cure the breach. SGI must do more as outlined [in the August letter] to cure all of their breaches.' But later on in the article, we learn what was outlined in the August letter:
'We don't believe that SGI has taken all of the steps necessary to cure all of the breaches, and in fact in our letter to them, we state "SGI's breaches of these agreements cannot be cured."' So SCO essentially told SGI, 'You're in violation of our contract and unless you remedy the violations, we'll pull your UNIX license. Oh, BTW, you can't remedy the violations.' This looks to me like the clearest example yet of how SCO is acting in bad faith." Read on below for another snippet of SCO strangeness.
An anonymous reader writes "As many are aware, SCO has sought (and got) a 4 month extension to its IBM lawsuit. According to the Salt Lake Tribune: 'SCO spokesman Blake Stowell said Tuesday that he understood the extension is being sought "for the purpose of gaining documents from IBM related to the patents they claim. . . . Some of the patents aren't even filed with the U.S. Patent Office, as far as we can learn."' I thought this was worth looking at, and quickly found that the patents in question are 4,814,746, 4,821,211, 4,953,209, and 5,805,785 - which can be found by typing in their numbers in this USPTO form."
It was 1938 and Werner was full of himself, Hitler and Nazism. Eighteen years old and a poster boy for the Aryan ideal young man, 5?8? blonde, blue eyes and with just a touch of sadism in him that was willing to blame all of Germany?s problems on the undesirables.
He enlisted in the Army, more of a politician than a good soldier; he was soon transferred to the SS, because of his fervent belief in the Fuhrer.
He rose through the ranks quickly and by the end of four years was a first sergeant. It was a wonderful life, harassing the undesirables, confiscating their homes and businesses rooting out the real problems of Germany. The government was encouraging growth of the Aryan population, so the fraulein?s were encouraged to fuck as often as possible and become little Nazi making machines. Werner with his stereotypical Germanic looks had no end of little girls waiting for him every evening with their legs in the air and spread. It did not take him long to believe that he was irresistible to women.
Then in 1942 he was transferred to a prison camp in Eastern Germany. There he would head up the guard force under an aristocratic LtCol who had been wounded on the eastern front. Here his sadism came into full bloom, the LtCol allowed him to run the camp, get the slave labor parties ready and dispose of the workers that could no longer work.
You have heard that old saying: ?Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely?. Werner went round the bend, an occasional hint of 300 years of Lutheran conscious would kick in once in a while, Werner would push it to the back of his mind.
Then came the orders, dispose of the Juden, Gypsies, non Aryan Polish, Russians and homosexuals. Only those fit to work would be spared, others would be gassed, shot, what ever the most economical way was. Clothing and valuables were confiscated. Most of the clothing was used to make paper, since it consisted mostly of rags. Werner made an amazing discovery, sewn into hems and seams of the garments were rings, precious stones and gold. Most of this he turned over to his officers, but a small portion he set aside for his own future, as a good prudent German would do.
Then there was the sex. The women would do anything for him for a few more days on earth. He would pick out the best looking and cleanest and keep them for a week or so, before sending them out on work parties or to the ovens to be gassed. Werner developed a fondness for the homosexuals; this really fed his appetite for sadism. He would choose a young man, and tell him that if he performed well Werner would 1. Give him food, or 2. Spare him. Werner would then have the prisoner suck him. Werner was constantly amazed at how much he enjoyed this action; they were so accomplished at the art. When he came, would tell the prisoner to bend over so he could be fucked in the ass. Once the prisoner was in position and with Werner?s dick in his ass, Werner would draw the marvelous little weapon the SS had taught him how to use. It consisted of two hand-sized blocks of wood with a length of piano wire firmly attached to each block. He always got an erection even though he had just come, from anticipating what he was about to do. He would loop the wire, encircle the prisoner head and pull tight. He learned from sad experience not to jerk too hard on the wires as without too much difficulty the prisoner would be decapitated, what a mess. No sense in having any rumors floating about. Two years of this and he was so warped he would make a good case study for ?abnormal psych?.
Then things begin to go bad for the Fatherland. The Russians had a new tank and were over running the army on the Eastern Front, the Allies had landed in France and were approaching the German border. Werner?s survival instinct told him that the cause was lost. Then came the Battle of the Bulge, the last full German offensive of the war. All was lost it was only a matter of time now. Then the camp commander came to him and told him his services were need on the Eastern Front as a s
n/t
I assume that should read "SGI's code changes" at the beginning?
SCO are getting to the stage where they will try and get money any way by deception, well they passed that stage, now it's outright denial
SCO LICKS COW BALLS...twice...in a row...and that McBride Dude, he also licks balls, and SGI licks balls for admitting they was wrong! No one should admit they're wrong, then SCO won't be able to do shit seeing as they have no proof of copying, they're relying on scaring people into admitting guilt...crazy hoes
I only hope that they can be adequately punished by the law.
I am certain, however, that those in charge of the company (which I will not name, as one should not name the devil) will make of with wads of cash after running their stock scam, and all anyone else will get is an end to a great deal of pain and suffering.
I only hope that I'm wrong (it's happened before, once or twice)
SCO is willing to go for broke on this one. Removing the code is really irrelevant, because they want to collect on all the "back damages" they believe they are owed.
If SGI put SCO code into Linux, and then individuals with no connection to SGI used that code, SCO wants to be able to hold them liable for past usage, even if the code was completely expunged from the current tree.
Rational? It doesn't matter what we think. In the end, it will come down to an old man in a black robe.
Just ignore them and they'll go find someone else to crap on.
Some of the patents aren't even filed with the U.S. Patent Office
How can you have a patent without be filed with the patent office?
Can someone tell me if IBM has suffered in the form of sales of it's AIX product due to having the license terminated?
I thought we didn't care what SCO said anymore.
How in the world is this news?
Blah blah, we need more media exposure to pump our stocks, blah blah, nothing you do will ever clean the Linux kernel of our code because we ARE UNIX, blah, blah, looking forward to federal slam me in the ass prison, blah, blah, insert mindless dribble here.
And if you're reading this, you owe us money.
Darling McSly
It seems that SCO is just trying to piss off the Open Source community. Breaches that can't be remedied? How exactly is this possible? Programs can be written hundreds of different ways. I think SCO is making up its rules as it goes along, much like a race I participated in during 5th grade. I clearly won, but my opponent then seated himself and said, "er... you have to sit down too, so I win!" That's no good.
Esoteric reference.
Just like you can own code you never wrote, bought or saw.
I'm hoping that any of the smaller less lawyer-friendly companies suffering from SCO's claims can hold in long enough for this to blow over . It seems that nothing but time is going to get rid of SCO and their outrageous claims, which this current claim confirms.
Basically, SCO is asserting that "you're f**ked no matter what you do", which for anyone who is thinking of at least trying to remove possible infringments is stating "why bother."
Nothing is going to stop SCO but time. For every legitimate counter-action and counter-claim, they'll simply come up with more and more unbelievable and unreasonable rebuttals. Until SCO gets taken down in court, there's not much anyone can do about this unfortunately. The fact that SCO execs are dumping stock like hot potatoes proves that they don't believe they have a chance... but that won't stop them from maintaining their current stance of idiocy and oppressiveness.
good SCO is dead SCO
SCO want's SGI to remove the entire XFS system code and even that may not be enough for SCO since everthing that has even the most remote connection to UNIX is a dervztive. I have a UNIX Primer book in the bookshelf next to me so this message is probably a UNIX derivative and anyone who reads it will need to pay a licensing fee to SCO.
Not at all as far as I can tell - and I'm close enough to know!!
My fortune was "Mind your own business, Spock. I'm sick of your halfbreed interference."
Great. So now SCO is run by a bunch of Vulcans. I prefer to think they're Romulan scum because Vulcans would never do anything this stupid.
i am a soviet space shuttle
I don't see why SGI is bending over and grabbing it's feet for SCO. They said the Sys5 code was released already anyway.
Here are the USPTO links, for ease of consumption:
US Patent 4,814746
US Patent 4,821,211
US Patent 4,953,209
US Patent 5,805,785
That doesn't make sence since the vast majority of Linux systems in use don't require any of the features SCO is claiming rights to.
The only company with enough bathtubs to supply the worldwide demand for crack. Also, the only company with an actual crack team of lawyers. How much longer till the DEA shuts them down?
NIGGER C0CK
The code that SGI (and IBM) have released was released under GPL. So essentially it was re-licensed under a different non-revokable license. Even if you remove the code from future releases, the code that was released before is still in breach of the licensing agreement and since it's GPL it can be used by other people (call them insane).
You're running a scam
Any AC can see that
Go back to Utah
Rank Presidents by th
"this looks to me like the best example yet of SCO acting in bad faith"
uhh.. bad faith? they've been hurt. they want damages to be recovered. explain how this is in "bad faith" ?
Would someone please just break through SCO's firewall, "borrow" the System V code tree, run the comparisons, and publish them for all the world to see? Then we can quickly put this matter to rest and then move on to the inevitable next phase: "Sue the pants off SCO for integrating Linux code into UNIX while disobeying the GPL". *sigh*
As it looks it will never be enough.
And looking at two factors:
1. SCO is not willing to take any approach to solving problem (FSF approached them, they didn't answer), nor willing to take any solution as creditable
2. SCO is currently making more money than it would if problem would be solved
the only solution is to take this to court as soon as possible. Then everything will matter again. Until then just let SCO bark as it does.
Signature Pro version 1.13.2-3 release 83.5 beta3try7 after-breakfast edition
IBM, Sun, SGI, RedHat, the EFF and *ALL* Linux users need to file a class action suit against SCO.
SCO is doing all this shit just to pump up their stock so the asshole executives can cash in and bail.
Let's sue *THEIR* asses for a change.
Lets see: frivoulous lawsuits, defamation of character...any lawyer wannabes want to add to the list?
From article, citing SCO letter: "unrestricted disclosure, unauthorised transfer and disposition, and unauthorised use and copying"
In other words, you must bleed, SGI (or at least pay up to my pinkie's desire). They seem to think they're district attorny or something. Clue to SCO: you're involved in a CIVIL case.
Once again no actual info such as "remove this" or "do that". They don't even want to make a solid case it seems. Or they're really the deranged cult that some portray them as.
According to this slashdot story appearing Thursday, the SCO code had already been put in the public domain by SCO. As such, it is hard to imagine what the material damage to SCO is. It seems hard to imagine that they could go after end-users with that.
Now, that said, they might be able to construe a breach of contract with SGI out of it. What does SCO gain there? Well, one loss is certainly clear. They will no longer get the license revenue from SGI for IRIX. So, this might be a revenue trimming strategy.
SCO is also pursuing this strategy with AIX. Ultimately, deligitimizing all of the commercial unixes might just push faster toward Linux adoption.
Ok, I'll plead ignorence on this one, but why hasnt any company utilized (what I believe to be) a right to a speedy trail and get the fucken thing over with.
/.'s crowd has actually sent in complaints just as much as they have b1tched about it here, that they would have atleast do some type of press release or something on the issue.
Also, does anyone have a reason reason why the SEC hasnt gotten involved yet? I understand the paper trail, but you'd think that if
We don't need an "overrated" so much as we need a "you completely missed the parent's point, dumbass..."
Some while later...
SCO: "bu... bu... bu... but... why do I have to go to my room without my licensing fees? It really was my code! Mine! Mine! Mine!!!"
So far it looks like the folks defending themselves directly against SCO (see the counter filing that SCO has violated terms of the GPL) are reading from the same playbook as the arguments a lot of folks have been making in discussions here. Those all sound pretty reasonable, and if so SCO can make lots of cash in the market for now because the market are a bunch of clue-free lemmings. Once it gets to court...
Quoth he
"It's all academic anyway..."
Since SGI probably doesn't have the money to file a lawsuit against SCO, maybe a larger company with the cash to fight a lawsuit should buy SGI and go after SCO.
It's clear that these people want to destroy *nix, destroy the GPL, the Open Source community... the whole concept of Intellectual Property altogether. Not to mention (but I will) that they don't intend to stop until rob all monetary value of any software and/or services derived therefrom.
It's war. SCO declared it, and is actively on the attack. They intend to vanquish their enemies... us. To win this war, you defeat them, crush them... DESTROY them.
IBM, SGI and the rest of SCO's declared enemies should join forces and take these people down... and crush them so badly that noone else should ever even THINK of pulling this nonsense again.
The problem with socialism is that they always run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher
Then I want to let SCO try to prove in court that "thier" code was required for Linux to thrive. It would also show a judge that SCO's potential customer base for UnixWare was a tad smaller than SCO likes to claim.
This would be better than replacing the code short term. It would show that the technologies which SCO says customers would have purchased UnixWare to get were in fact virtually irrelevant.
Why is SGI changing anything?
I thought all of SCO's claims were baseless. If SGI is changing things, then that implies that they aren't?
Why go through all of the trouble?
No, I refuse ! What is this "Slashdot: news for nerds, stuff about SCO that doesn't matter" or what ???
Film at 11 for me.
If XFS is re implemented in a clean room by people that are not connected to SGI and have never seen SGI sourcecode, and the orginal XFS source is then destroyed by SGI, then SCO would have no valid case.
Do you really expect SGI to 'sorry I won't do it again', and expect that to be enough. You didn't accept that kind of deal when MS was being attacked for 'monopoly practices', far less a crime than what SGI has done.
That's easy.
With people calling anything that can run on UNIX systems 'Linux', it is easy to think 'runs on X86, SCO would be the choice'.
SCO forgets that BSD came to a settlement in the early 1990's. SCO *AND* the average Linux zelot doesn't understand that if pressure is put on GNU/Linux, the masses will move to BSD, GNU/FreeBSD (by debian) et la.
As long as people make statement like "Our webserver is Linux" (no, its Apache) or "Apple is using a Linux Browser" (Silly me, I thought it using part of Konqueror) SCO will think that 'all their bases belong to Linux'.
Moving off of GNU/Linux to GNU/FreeBSD or even Free/Net/OpenBSD/Darwin/Mac OS X means if SCO would somehow win, they win nothing.
If one stops refering to 'anything running on Linux' as 'Linux' and instead calling it 'Apache' or 'PostgreSQL' or 'Open Source Software' your rhetoric need not change due to the rise OR fall of one piece of technology - in this case "Linux"
Where's a tactical nuke when you need one?
They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...
Behind every delusion there is a seemingly rational thought process. Usually reality is twisted to fit, but here goes:
SCO owns Unix (not really, but...). Unix is worth ??? billion in sales each year. It is ours, since we own Unix. We are generous, so those who put it on disk can have a few bucks for the trouble.
Since we own Unix, and own all derivatives of Unix, (original AT&T contract) the derivatives, such as RCU, XFS, etc are ours too.
Some lowlifes such as IBM and SGI DARED to give away what is ours. We will put them out of business. All their customers will flock to us, the Real Owners of Unix. They will use the real Unix, which will include all of our intellectual property, such as Samba, Linux, XFS, RCU etc. We will get rich. Everyone will beg to use our Intellectual Property!
World Domination!
Derek
Three things really: Revenue. Royalties. Cash.
They couldn't figure out how to make money selling Linux, so the new management sought a new strategy -- make money whenever someone else sells Linux.
As a result, they're not interested in any outcome which dosn't give them a cut. They want to monetize Linux so that they are the toll takers.
It's like the story of the goose that laid the Golden Egg. Any attempt by SCO to exact a toll on Linux installations will cause implementers to move to BSD. Like the Internet, Free Software will route around any attempt to collect royalties. Collecting a toll will kill Linux, but the code will live on.
Not that SCO's legal arguments will put them in a position to collect the royalties they covet. Their legal arguments are as incompetent as they are laughable. Their derivative works ideas are contrary to copyright law as interpreted on this planet. They don't understand how they are bound by the GPL becuase they distributed Linux under it for years and made their IPO on the strength of Linux's promise. Plus, IBM's undead lawyers will be drinking their blood over patents.
I have discovered a truly marvelous sig, unfortunately the sig limit is too small to contain i
You do not go after someone with shallow pockets on a flimsy claim on a contingency basis.
They might be rodents but they are not dumb rodents.
Adding SGI to the IBM claim makes the issues harder for SCO as both IBM and SGI can point the other party if they need to. SCO can't just claim that One or the other did somethng they have to be specific, so it adds legal risk with pretty much zero legal upside.
Help fight continental drift.
http://209.142.250.242/~suprnova/torrents/342/sco unixware 7.1.3.torrent
The net effect of this maybe to just invalidate any license SCO grants in the future.
As a customer when I buy commercial software, I understand I am buying a license. If I buy a copy of office at Staples or CDW, I am buying a piece of software thats mine within the terms of the license. I have never heard of Microsoft retroactively terminating a license.
SCO is establishing a history of terminating, irrevocable licenses. If your'e company X, you now have to think twice about enterring into any license agreement with a company that has shown such little regard about honoring agreements. If you are a current licensee and SCO has terminated your license you can certainly argue that they have established a history of frivolously and fraudulently doing so.
The net effect of SCO's litigation, and out of courtroom antics may very well be to effectively nullify their ability to enforce their property rights in an economic manner. Now, if I were a SCO shareholder and all of a suddent SCO weren't able to enforce license agreements or Sell new SCO server licenses I might look into pursuing the board and officers of SCO for violation of fiduciary duty. But thats just me.
this whole sco thing is like one giant joke that has us all waiting for the big punchline...
When is M$ going to buy SCO?
If you havent seen the actual evidence how can you take the stances being taken. If these companies have infact transfered code then they should pay damages. (Obviously this shouldnt effect the people who used the code)
I wouldnt put it past SGI, IBM etc to do some cutting / pasting to expedite Linux enhancements.
I was suffering from terrible pains in my guts last week and eventually I went to see my doctor.
He asked me the usual questions, how was I sleeping? Were my bowel movements regular? Had I changed my diet? etc.
Eventually he drew a blank, and decided to give me a thorough examination.
He was some way into examining my rectum when he sat up, looking concerned and said:
"I'm afraid that I've found some lettuce leaves protruding from your rectum"
I was puzzled, but not concerned at this stage, and replied:
"Well, that isn't very serious, is it doctor?".
To which he responded:
"It might well be: That's only the tip of the iceberg!"
Anon, and for a very good reason.
Anyone who's using XFS owes $699 to SCO?
You know, I see just the opposite.
At the company I work for, (and I've heard others doing the same), they're easing back on Linux for mission critical applications and instead buying AIX boxes.
There is no rationality to that at all. After all, IBM is the only one who's actually been sued. Perhaps they have more faith in IBM's legal department than they do in their own.
Slightly OT: I just had a couple of P-series boxes get back-ordered for about a month. My rep told me that the Department of Homeland Security ordered a bunch of AIX boxes - so many that it put manufacturing behind. Tom Ridge must not be too worried about all of this.
Hot Damn! It's the Soggy Bottom Boys!
No need for you or user to do that "examine code".
IBM and SGI have both code pieces, and since IBM is having legal dispute with SCO, well, your wish will be granted during trial, and looking how big IBM is, I think they will be very exact code tree examination.
Signature Pro version 1.13.2-3 release 83.5 beta3try7 after-breakfast edition
News for turds, Stuff that splatters
Have you ever gone a couple days without showering, stuck your hands down the front of your pants, and taken a whiff? Reeks, doesn't it? The sweaty balls smell (SBS), as I like to call it. Well, my penis smells like that and more. You see, I had sex last night, and the smell of dried up cum and vaginal fluid is pretty strong. Couple that with the SBS, and it's like a party in my pants. I need to take a shower. Too bad I'm too busy reading Slashdot and playing Wolfenstein.
How about 2,000 pissed off Linux users showing up at the Canopy building with sledge hammers and crowbars and doing some demolition on evil central? I wonder what they would do if their offices were turned into a pile of splinters and rubble? The Players here are Canopy not SCO. SCO is a now just front for the Canopy Group. Darl doesn't take a shit with out getting permission from Ray Norda. Screw `um time to start boycotting SCO's customers too. That is something the stock market will notice and SCO's stock value will drop back down to delisting range where it belongs. Were do we get a list of their customers to start harrassing?
If you don't like what I write don't be a CS and mod it down. Refute it.
Yea I can't spell. So what is your point?
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Someone should just kill these fuckers, or at least neuter/remove them. They're obviously just out to fuck people over for their own personal gain. I hope they both die painfully.
Sigh... You know, lately, I wish I was livign in a different country. The only problem is I can't find one to go ot.
--
If I actually could spell I'd have spelled it right in the first place.
...and whether or not the judge thinks SCO's blowin' and goin'. That weak response from SCO in regards to the initial filing probably won't float, especially with Red Hat's reply to the response. SCO's got very little rope left from which to hang itself with the Red Hat case- the only way they're going to not get a declaratory decision on them very shortly is if they come back with an actual strong response to the recent Red Hat reply.
I don't see them doing it.
Based on Red Hat's claims in the filing, a temporary injunction is likely to be handed down from the court since there IS controversy and they ARE obviously guilty of what Red Hat's claiming if they can't come up with conclusive proof of their public, business statements.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
> It seems that nothing but time is going to get rid
> of SCO and their outrageous claims
A small thermonuclear device should do it....Oh wait, cockroaches can survive a nuclear war....Dang, I guess you're right.
> It seems that SCO has learned a thing or two from their Redmond overlards.
Overlards? I for one welcome our new pig masters....Hmmmmm bacon.;-)
The antics of these corporate kingpins are getting pathetic and laughable. But they are serious. Just becasue it's not as much money as Enron doesn't mean the fraud, lies, and manipulation of the stock market aren't just as illegal.
I hope someone is documenting (with suitable domain name: www.SCO-fraud.org) and tracking all the letters and corporate statements they are making (digital voice recording of their statements during their "road show" will be useful and revealing I am sure).
The state of Utah (SCO HQ) and or other jurisdictions should be charging the company with public mischief and fraud: if not now then some time in the future.
...you're talking Patents. This is about contracts and the alleged breach thereof and about Copyrights , which while it's IP and covered by IP law (and has it's OWN messed up things about it) it is a completely different thing altogether.
Now, I will grant you that the US IP system IS all screwed up- Patents granted willy-nilly with no real application of the original (or, really, even the current set of) rules for them, Copyrights lasting forever (They're supposed to be for a limited time- at one point, they were not any longer than a Patent's time for legitimacy in these current days) for all intents and purposes, Trademarks being used to enforce nonexistant IP rights.
But in order to know what to talk about to FIX the mess, you have to understand that there really is three completely different and distinct things needing to be fixed and they need different fixes.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
That and a bunch of Itanium boxes were ordered
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
I couldn't find in the article anything about SCO claiming breaches couldn't be fixed.
Leandro Guimarães Faria Corcete DUTRA
DA, DBA, SysAdmin, Data Modeller
GNU Project, Debian GNU/Lin
I for one welcome our new pig hamsters
If you don't like what I write don't be a CS and mod it down. Refute it.
Yea I can't spell. So what is your point?
He's a good US citizen and a fine worldman. And you are an idiot. He's the reason I still have faith in the US as a great nation (I'm from another country).
Pride is sometimes a good thing (not always). Arrogance will always be punished, sooner or later.
Darl,
/., don't you have a company you should be busy mismanaging?
Instead of reading
is that you can easily consider windows, dos, etc unix.
Dos is a deriviative of unix, (a bad one) and dos begat windows. so technically, windows is unix deep down. Dont forget Xenix, a microsoft-based unix back in the 80's.
and at the rate of nonsense sco's yammering at, they would be going after microsoft.. but they arent, why? because I bet that microsoft is backing this nonsense. ironically this starts just a linux starts getting some real muscle on it, and now microsoft is starting the DRM shit... it's too ironic to be coincidences... it's all working hand in hand.
SCO could sue microsoft, but for some reason, they havent even made a move towards it.
oh and they could slam apple next, since it uses NeXT and Darwin; which they'll more than likely do.
Basically, SCO's bullying all of microsoft's competition right and left with very little regard for their own well being, which they probably have some nice cuts of fresh money waiting for them after doing all of this.
However, all it'll do is get these companies pissed off, and they'll either start their own systems from scratch or fully back linux. (which would be nice)
SCO's going to find themselves in the Corporation obituaries soon enough, so really, we need to stop bitching about their bullshit, I wouldnt be surprised if they were reading through all these comments for ideas on their next targets (aka other companies that use "unix" )
Just start removing the stuff SCO has been talking about in the press.
Take the current 2.6.* kernel and create patches that remove XFS, JFS, SMP, etc. Call it the no-unicorns patchset.
I'd imagine that most people who run linux have a uniprocessor machine and don't really care what filesystem they use.
Some things are more important than an animated rat
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
Like everyone here, I don't believe that there is a case. I could care less if IBM breached a contract with SCO: it won't affect free software once the infringments (if they exist) are released to be fixed. In any decision, I cannot fathom a scenario where SCO will be allowed to "win" in their battle against Linux.
Likewise, I also agree that the SCO execs are "pumping and dumping". Whether they will get away with it or not, time will tell.
But I think that the main source who is pulling the strings has GOT to be Microsoft. They have figured out that throwing FUD at Linux has not, and likely will never, help. Plus their lawyers have examined the GPL and likely come to the conclusion that it is completely unassailable.
Linux has been making steady progress and slowly taking market share from Microsoft. This comes at a time when MS has to start charging more for their products in order to grow revenues (since they have essentially no room to grow in terms of customers) and when they have virtually no new products of note ready for release in the next couple of years! This is a prime time for customers to look into Linux adoption.
How can MS stem the tide? They can't start directly hurling the legal scare tactics (probably get even Ashcroft looking at them in disapproval for that), so they quietly get the SCO execs on board, and get them to do their dirty work for them? Anyone think this is plausable?
Look at the tomato! Isn't it sad? He can't dance! Poor tomato!
Results for google search:
"linux is full of crap".......... 0 hits
"apple is full of crap"......... 0 hits
"microsoft is full of crap".... 9 hits
"toilet is full of crap".......... 2 hits
"SCO is full of crap".......... 92 hits!
So it's official, SCO is 46 times more full of crap crap than a toilets are.
AFAIK...sgi didn't say there was sysV code in XFS...they said some small code snippets were in their distro that bore similarity to sysV code. SCO warped that to mean XFS contains sysV code...but sysV code does have a journaling file system implementation and all the older BSD liscense unix code contains the same basic file system code as sysV. So SCO already has really thin case on that basis alone. Then there is the issue of whether or not the snippets were basic structures that fall under the general mathematical/algorithmic method category (because those methods are not patentable or copyright-able in the first place).
Really smart now due to your post
"linux is full of crap" will be 1 hit tommorow
In addition to outlasting the murder trial of O. J. Simpson, the trial of SCO vs. Linux Allies will be far more complicated and cost millions of dollars in expert witnesses.
In the trial of O. J. Simpson, the issue was simple. Did Simpson have a motive to kill his wife and did he kill his wife?
In the SCO trial, we are dealing with subtle technical issues and shades of gray. How does one define "minor amendment"? Certainly, no one on the jury will have a clue. The only exposure that an average American has to an operating system (OS) is the color pictures representing icons in Windows. She has no knowledge of kernel-level code.
What will happen is that SCO, IBM, and (apparently now) SGI will subpoena expert witnesses to support or refute the claim that something is a "minor amendment" to the kernel code, but the jury will be dazed as it tries to figure out who is telling the truth on something that the juror has no knowledge. The professors at Carnegie-Mellon University will earn a small bundle of money in serving as expert witnesses in the geek equivalent of the "trial of the century". The court itself will need to hire computer-science professors to explain the intricate details of how an OS works.
Above all, you will see bearded and balding 50-year-old programmers waxing nostalgic about the parts of UNIX that they coded.
I've used XFS and its preformance, quite honestly, disgusted me. ext3 IMHO is a much better alternative, second to ReiserFS which I prefer over all the alternatives.
;) SGO seems to be quickly going the way of Micro$haft from the looks of things.
Free your mind, and your software will follow soon after
~Hellfire~
msft isn't shoveling millions of dollars to scox for nothing. Darl needs two more profitable quarters before his 600,000 options vest.
No really, RTFA - it's hilarious. It goes something like this:
------------
NATURE OF THIS ACTION
1. Denies the averments of paragraph 1.
2. Denies the averments of paragraph 2 as they relate to IBM, except refers to the referenced licenses for their contents and states that IBM is without information sufficient to form a belief as to the truth of the averments as they relate to any other person or entity.
[...]
16. Denies the averments of paragraph 16, except admits that IBM is transacting business within this state and is contracting to provide goods and services within the state and states that, to the extent they purport to state a legal conclusion, these averments do not require a response.
[...]
170. Denies the averments of paragraph 170.
[...]
GENERAL DENIAL
IBM denies each averment in the complaint that is not specifically admitted herein.
---- page ----
AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSES
First Defense
The complaint fails to state a claim upon which relief can be granted.
[...]
Tenth Defense
SCO has failed, in whole or in part, to mitigate its alleged damages.
------------
So, bascially, IBM denies everything in SCO's suit except for the fact that they're performing business in that state. (And then you get into the counter-claims, which are also an interesting read, if slightly less funny.)
That said, I doubt the SCO execs know how many 0's there are in a billion.
As in billi0n?
Infuriate left and right
Interesting how SCO wants damages paid to them but the public and companies MS hurt and killed don't get that..... but instead a promise from MS they won't do it again ...... while they continue to.
I really believe SCO is going to get squashed in court, but it's always possible that our ridiculous court system will let this shit fly.
It's ridiculous that SCO is still allowed to continue this nonsense considering the obvious insider trading going on, etc.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Dumb question, selling to who?
since for every buyer there is a seller, who gets screwed?
I read their response, and I don't understand it. I think it really sends a mixed message to the general community and makes them look weak. Basically, they say "we didn't do anything wrong, but we'll remove the offending material." Then they go on to say that it was just redundant material anyway that was already included in the kernel.
If this was the case, it seems too coincidental that the time when they decide to delete all this "redundant" code is when SCO comes knocking. It makes them look guilty. not only that, it didn't get them anything. It's not like SCO was ever going to say "Thanks for removing that code." Nothing SGI did could have been enough, so why bother doing anything when it could just make you look guilty?
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
I'd love to be on that jury. When questioned by Scum Company Org. bout what's an operating system, I'd reply Duh!is that what they use in hospitals. That would gaurentee you to get picked by SCO for the jury. Then I'd give the jury an education on Scum Inc.'s tactics. the last thing SCO wants is someone on the jury that can do more that say A looks like B so it must be SCO's code.
Red eye's at night, Hackers delight. Red eye's in the morning, Professors Warning.
...How exactly is this possible?...
Um, how about writing code that works better than anything SCO ever produced? SCO would really like to make superior code that is not SCO property either go away or become SCO property. Unlike Linux, whick they claim could never have advanced as it did without benefiting from 25 years of unix experience, SCO never did benefit from that experience. Now they want to obviously.;-)
------ The only greater hazard to your liberty than n politicians is n+1 politicians.
The argument that it is difficult to make a derivative work of GPL code, where the derivative work includes proprietary code that is integrated with the GPL code. Can't release it under the GPL, it's proprietary code, but Linux _needs_ UNIX, so the only way to do this is get rid of the GPL for the good of Linux.
SGI wants to contribute XFS to Linux, or perhaps any other OS that is interested. They are doing this for everyone's benefit. If I understand it correctly, SCO is saying that SGI cannot do that, no matter what. Even if there is no actual SVR4 code in XFS, it's because SGI is a UNIX licensee, and therefore they cannot open source anything that they use to make the SVR4 UNIX essentials that they license from SCO better. It's controversial, but SCO knows that.
But from another angle, SVR4 has a monopoly of sorts when it comes to UNIX compliant OS'es. Even so, if they are saying that you cannot simultaneously license UNIX code from them, and open source code that you, and only you, as the licensee, wrote to improve and extend the functionality of those UNIX essentials that you license from SCO, then what SCO is really doing, if they get their way, is that they are making SVR4 a kind of Medusa, or a poison oak, or something.
Isn't there a chance that those who want to continue using the GPL, and contributing to open source, will not want to have anything to do with SCO or UNIX SVR4?
If SCO can prove their point in court, no one is going to want to touch SVR4 with a ten foot pole!
Linux is still going to become the OS of choice, no matter how much re-coding is necessary, if any, that is... And if SVR4 won't play nice with it, there will be consequences.
Or maybe not... there is no way to speculate what will take place when all these issues go to court.
One thing that I am confident in saying is that XFS is an excellent file system, and even if it weren't available free of charge, it would be worth some money to have a file system like that.
Musically, the song is absolutely gorgeous, but one day a lover of mine explained the story of the song:
First of all, Parseley, sage, rosemary and tyme are 3 common spices which are (by themselves) delicious and harmless, but if you mix them together, the result is poisonous.
The second part to note is that his requests to her for what she should do whence "then she'll be a true love of mine". are all impossible.
This beautiful song when fully understood is really a poison pen letter. In HitchHikers Guide To The Galasy terminoligy it's executive summary is: "do seven impossible things before breakfast, and I'll meet you at the restaurant at the end of the universe where we can discuss the possibility of our getting together again.
Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
(Remember: to 1000 eyes any problem is shallow -- but SCO only has 3).
Right now, I think that the best thing for both the Linux community (and SGI) to do woud be to stop hunting code similarities for SCO, and challenge them to tell us specifically where the violations are, or shut up and go find someone to harrass.
If SCO is willing to document specific copyright violations, then I'll happily do whatever I can to help verify and (once verified), fix the breaches. -- and by specific I mean file name and line numbers in both original SCO code and Linux releases. (they would also have to specify release version).
Until they're willing and able to do something like that, they can eat their press releases .
Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
AFAIK Red Hat doesn't even ship with XFS. No one really uses XFS, nor JFS. The filesystems du jour are ext3 and ReiserFS. I recall there were problems with either XFS or JFS. One of this systems had code duplicated with kernel's and it was difficult to include it in the kernel. There were even rumours it would be abandonded.
That said, I think SCO doesn't have a clue what it's up to - saying the community would be unable to replace XFS and JFS - it already had long ago! They probably think GNU/Linux is controlled by corporations and wouldn't survive without them (this is why they are suing IBM and (probably) SGI), but I think it is slowly becoming the other way - corporations are becoming dependant on GNU/Linux and are not really needed in the development process!
Of course it not enough. Which part of "all of your code are now belong to us" do you not understand???
Windows is what the cretins run on their desktop. The clueful will have MacOS X, Linux, Solaris, etc. Windows is for secretaries and morons.
I am not a Lawyer.
However, I think I can answer this one. SCO has repeatedly claimed that they are only planning to seek damages from businesses running Linux, rather than individual users. So, even as a class-action, if the class represented individual users rather than businesses, SCO would, probably successfully, be able to claim that the plaintiff had no standing.
Contributors to the Unix kernel would probably have standing to sue SCO for breach of the GPL, and copyright infringement as a result of that breach, either individually or as a class. Especially if Licenses for SCO IP in Linux could be shown to have been sold by SCO, though the web site adverising those licenses and the associated FAQ may be enough to grant standing.
Finally, businesses might be able to sue for declarative judgement, again individually or as a class, regarding SCO's threats. In particular, those businesses which rec'd the original SCO letter regarding IP infringements in Linux could have a particularly strong suit. A class-action by over a thousand companies against SCO would be very gratifying, and damaging to SCO's credibility. Won't happen, of course, but one can dream.
Anyway, as individual users, there isn't a whole hell of a lot we can do to SCO in court. At least as far as I can see. I'm kind of hoping one of the lawyers here will see this and come up with something that individual Linux users could sue SCO over, but I doubt it.
So XFS apparently has pieces of code in it that belong to SCO. Even if they don't own XFS, they still own that code, and SGI deliberately misled people into believing that they aren't bound by any pay-to-use license by releasing XFS in Linux kernel.
So there you go, you have a Linux box with unpaid for portions of SCO code running on it. This creates an interesting legal precedent with very dangerous consequences.
Where's the guarantee that Linux is not tainted with some other obscure company's (SOOC for short) code? Where's the guarantee that programmers working on the kernel didn't use good old copy & paste in "tough" places? And most importantly, when Linux is mainstream enough, where's the guarantee that SOOC will not sue for frikkin billions for code theft / patent infingement / licensing agreement violations?
I have watched this fiasco from the beginning.
I can't wait until the SEC shows up at SCO.
Can anyone say "whistleblower"? Please....
There's already a site like that.
/. quite a bit, oddly enough in SCO-related articles.
It's called Groklaw. They've been mentioned on
ya welcome.
Frankly, I can't understand why SCO would pursue this into court at this point in time.
As you say, an extra 20 million never hurt a struggling company with an otherwise lousy business model.
Perhaps equally important, SCO'd also like it if SGI quit dumping their scalability crown jewels into Linux. It makes it hard to slip an extra multi-thousand dollar OS charge for per-processor CPU licenses for UnixWare going from 8 to 32 CPUS (or 4 to 64 GB memory) when SGI is enabling Linux to have all that for free.
The fact that SGI has already poured so much effort into Linux is one reason I suspect why SCO says 'the breach cannot be remedied'; there as aspects of SGI's past help which, no matter what a court rules, practically cannot be undone. (And this is a good thing.)
--LP
I won't be truly happy unless all sco brass are personally taken down for this.
SCO and crew sound like a whiney kid looking for food at dinner - won't eat what's being served and fusses, fumes and demands something else and will raise the biggest stink until they get it. You make what they are demanding and serve it to them and they raise a bigger stink because that is not what they want, even though you acceded to their request. Problem is, you can't put SCO in the naughty corner like you can a six-year-old but the thought is kewl.
They're stopping buying an OS that is not in any way under legal attack (just FUD attack), in favor of an OS, the only OS, whose licence has been revoked and licencee has been sued?
Now if they'd pick a different OS, any different OS, it might have made some wierd form of sense. But that sounds like jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire to me.
Imagine, theoretically, that SCO wins and the AIX licence is decleared null and void. Ups, your mission-critical OS is dead in the water. Even if you had to gut large parts of Linux, it wouldn't drop dead like AIX would. Not that I consider that a likely outcome...
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
So it appears that the legal beagles at SCO are lower on the intellectual food chain than a 12 y.o. I saw looking up patents for her parents at the library last weekend. Starts to imply the SC in SCO stands for Sub-Competent. (Not completely incompetent -- they manage to put their shoes on in order to make it to the courthouse to file ridiculous claims.)
...buy as many shares of SCO as personal income allows, sign off the use of our votes to, say, Linus and have him shut them down. It'd be worth $500 for me personally just to see the reactions in the press. /Just my $500
I think SCO believes that since their code does some function, any code to do the same function is infringing on their patent. Oh dear, I'm going to get sued for my program computing 1+1=2 since SCO now owns that formula.
Why is SGI trying to comply with SCO if these supposed code segments are "trivial" and why is SCO trying not to cooperate with SGI? Maybe SCO doesn't care about the code while SGI (knowing SCO would deny this good gesture ahead of time) is trying to add more evidence to a pump-n-dump case.
Meanwhile, hundreds of miles away, no one comes out of SCO HQ to greet Monninkhof. So I started wondering, is this a matter of mistreating their business partner or not enough employees to come outside? I suspect that there's less than the 339 employees they claim. Laying off a dozen or so could probably pay off the legal fees and spins for the press since july. And who honestly keeps a counter of their employment on a web page? I'm having visions of those counters on the bottom of ebay auctions: "Free Employment counters and Services from Andale." Looking at their site: "There are currently no job openings at SCO," and the history of SCO stops at 2002. Hmm...Their site also doesn't list any new beta software and no announcements that there will be, so are they even still developing? And on what?
But, there's still 25 days to the end of the "SCO year" and their "SCO IP license for Linux" offer ends in 9 days. I'm feeling pretty lucky, so I'm going to predict at least 12 SCO stories to hit slashdot headlines by Oct.31. Place your bets.
...small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri...