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Michigan To Purchase Record 130,000 Laptops
goombah99 writes "The Detroit FreePress reports that Michigan state is planning the largest single laptop purchase/lease ever, over 130,000 wireless laptops--enough for every 6th grader. And of course future purchases for each new class. The main competion is between Dell and Apple, with Apple having the edge in classroom integration experience. But price points will matter since the school districts may have to pay $25 per pupil. And the Gates foundation has a foot in the door. No word on what OS the Dell laptops would run. What would be your choice for middle school classrooms with minimal sys admin?"
With minimal sys admin resources I would go with apple les patches and updates and virus protection needed. (Not none just less)
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said: "I drank what?" - Chris Knight (Val Kilmer)- Real Genius
The fight between Dell and Apple to supply the laptops
I have over 70 freaks, do you?
They are compact (12") and have enough power to do the kind of things kids would need to do in school. OS X crashes less then windows xp, and doesnt have to have a legion of anti-virus software packages installed on it to keep the machine safe.
***There is no point in asking, you'll get no reply***
Honestly, can you imagine what sort of virus protection scheme you would need if you were foolish enough to put windows on 130,000 laptops. Desktops with M$ OSii are enough of a headache, but laptops get taken home...
$ strings FTP.EXE | grep Copyright
@(#) Copyright (c) 1983 The Regents of the University of California.
Our college just switched to the Dell Latitude D800 from IBM Think Pads and I must say they don't seem to be as durable. The keyboards are particularly a problem. I can't see them standing up to use by upper elementary or middle school age kids.
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do.
Have the little buggers write there own.. and with this new generation of Nerds we then can take over the world!!!
"I am a kernel in the linux army"
No word on what OS the Dell laptops would run.
I'll give you a hint. It starts with a 'W' and ends with an indows.
"No word on what OS the Dell laptops would run."
That can't be a serious statement.
I hope Apple wins and these kids get iBooks with an airport card. I have a G4 Powerbook and my girlfriend has a 900mhz iBook, and I have to tell you, I'm not really sure where my extra $1000 went.
TCO. That's what the REAL bottom line is. The Macs will cost less because of the lower IT staffing requirements. Unfortunately, that's the same reason many school IT administrators will go with Windows. Less staff = a smaller fiefdom for the managers.
"Clean up the air and treat the animals fair" - Captain Beefheart
I know I'll get howled down by all the techheads around here, but I'm truly wondering if spending somewhere between 500 and 1000 bucks per student on something that depreciates so incredibly fast makes any sense. History books, saxophones and art supplies do not depreciate nearly as quickly and cost a lot less. So do teachers -- in fact, most of them *appreciate* instead with greater training and experience. That's a shitload of money spent on computers where more fundamental educational infrastructure might make more sense?...
Ok, this wasn't the question, but WHY does every 6th grader in the state need a laptop?
Isn't Michigan having a budget crunch like every other state?
I dunno... maybe a blackboard, some chalk and a couple of erasers. Paper, pens and pencils would be apropos. Textbooks I hear have a pretty low TCO.
over 130,000 wireless laptops--enough for every 6th grader
Great. Now every 6th grader may not be able to write a coherent sentence or multiply two fractions, but they'll be able to point-and-click their way to the job of their dreams.
Computers aren't the solution, but tools to help aciheve one.
Working for a school district in Texas, I can tell you that Dell has the edge in the now. Apple had the edge back in the day. I would go with dell and XP. Honestly, I'm not a big M$ fan, but XP is very stable in our environment, and only GPF's or screws up when groups or policies are in conflict with what certain software needs.
-J
"When I look back, my life is not a foreign country, it's more like a library book returned long ago." - ????
What are the chances that this actually get based on class/user-experiance? This will come down to gates wanting this one, and people making un-educated decisions. I see this going to Dell al the way.
This effects more then Apple though, this effects the whole computers in classrooms issue. When the go with MSDELL, and it ends up costing a lot more then they realized, other schools will not be as likely to fallow suite.
I think that all 6th graders having laptops, WITH wireless acccess is a bad idea. While a laptop is a great tool, I fail to see how it would fit in with 6th grade curriculum. 6th graders have a hard enough time sitting still and doing their work without a toy thrown into the mix.
.. a custom distribution of some sort that allows the school to lock-down / prevent access to games and non-educational websites during school hours. The school did pay for the hardware after all.
In some of my old CS classes, I remember COLLEGE students playing games or watching movies during the lectures. I can forsee a similar problem with the younguns.
What OS? It should probably be "Schoolnix"
What would be your choice for middle school classrooms with minimal sys admin?
My choice for school kids is pen and paper and good teachers.
Why spend so much money on technological gadgetry with 2/3 years of life when that money could be better spent on smaller classes, more personalized education and fighting illiteracy?
What's more, one thing I strongly believe is that computers destroy what makes kids kids : the ability to imagine and dream. Computers and televisions presents them with pre-chewed images that prevents them from developing their imagination, and pretty much turns a lot of them into passive technology consumers. The last thing we need is that crap to pervade into schools. There's time enough for kids to get into technology later, even touch it a little now and then as introductory classes when they're younger, but really schools should be sanctuaries of things simple, to let kids' brains be free and allow them to learn the basics properly.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
Mac OS X
---------------
Pros: Lack of virii, easy remote administration, friendly interface, Office suite, flexibility, able to network easily with other Macs and (slightly more difficultly) with Windows or Linux/Unix
Cons: Some people won't touch a Mac because they're predisposed into thinking it sucks.
Linux
--------
Pros: Lack of (numerous) virii, relatively easy remote administration, stable, cheap, flexible, able to network with other computers running Linux/Unix Windows, Mac
Cons: Slightly more difficult, espeically troubleshooting
Windows
-------------
Pros: "Everyone" uses it, likely least infrastructure changes, perhaps some familiarity
Cons: Unstable (don't even talk to me about XP, it's just as bad), open to virii and numerous other vuln's, potentially difficult troubleshooting (believe me, I've worked with other college kids' computers in the dorms)
Verdict
----------
Who cares as long as it's not Windows! Though with the recent debacle with Dell's mandatory license agreement, the Macs might be the better option.
Maine did this and it was a smashing success.
What would be your choice for middle school classrooms with minimal sys admin?
:)
MacOSX, of course.
It's Unix-based and is widely acknowledged to have the best user-interface.
The UI means less problems of the "how do I do...?" kind.
The Unix-based means you can actually lock it down so that the user can't terminally fuck it up. At worst he loses his home directory.
Linux would be 2nd choice, as it has the Unix advantage, but not quite the slick interface.
Windows would be 3rd choice. It has neither, but is widely used, so the kids will find it again later in life.
*BSD and other less well-known OSs come later, mostly due to their obscurity and the lack of a wide selection of software. Also because even with the "minimal admin" goal you will need some admin work done, and that means you need to find people who can handle the machines. Easy to find for windos, Linux, MacOS (in that order). No so easy for NetBSD, Plan9 or LispOS.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Hmmm -- if I were in 6th grade again, knowing what I know now, I wouldn't care what OS they are going to load on it. I would just wipe the disk and load linux and Open Office and be done with it.
Back when I was in 6th grade, in 1976, I think we might have had portable manual typewriters as the bleeding edge technology. I didn't see a computer, outside of video games, until 1980.
Back then life was simple - you just had to remember stuff and use your brain - and you actually went to the library if you wanted to find out about something - or for entertainment in the form of Fiction. The librarian would be there as a guide to help you with difficult searches - and the card catalog would suffice in most cases. As a result, there was this built-in filter (as a result of having limited access at a measured pace) that allowed you to focus on what was important.
Now there is terabytes of crap we have to sort through to get to the kernel of truth on the net. The counterpart of the knowledgeable librarian are few and far between, and information has to be taken with more than a grain of salt.
While I applaud providing computing resources to children - I think it is more important to now start looking at ways of taking those resources to the next level beyond simple hierarchies of filesystems - to a real collector and recorder of critical knowledge for everyone, tailored to their specific neural wiring. I think that will be the next great leap in computing - and now that we have machines capable of making it a reality, we will see it happen.
Information is not static - lets build applications that take that idea to its fruition.
Lodragan Draoidh
The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
...i find this to be a remarkably bad idea. not only is it going to cost hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars per student for the initial purchase, it's also going to probably double that cost for maintenance. who'se responsible if the laptop is dropped/damaged/stolen? the parent? tell that to an inner city detroit single mother when her lovely daughter gets her laptop stolen by some random 9th grader. is the state going to cover maintenance? great, double the price then to cover the life of these machines and take it out of my pocket. the state of michigan, like most other states in the us, has been under an intense budget crunch in the last 2 years due in large part to the recent mass exodus of manufacturing jobs in almost every market segment. is this really the best way to spend our money?
:)
as far as an OS choice, i'm going to burn any chance i might have of being moderated up here by suggesting windows xp. apple still doesn't really have a robust and easy to adminsiter means of locking down large numbers of systems and handling application delivery that would be required by this environment, nor does linux without a significant amount of research and development. while the software may be free, most of your local middle school admins (and i've worked with a number here in west michigan) don't have the first clue about managing linux (and barely the second clue on managing windows). this means that there'd be a large investment in outside contractors. of course this might mean some juicy support contracts for anybody that _does_ have these skills locally... hrmm.. maybe linux is a good idea after all
i'd also image that m$ is going to give a signifcant licensing break to the state to indoctrinate the students into the m$ shining path - i wouldn't be at all surprised if they gave away the windows licenses for free. before you act shocked, keep in mind that apple has been giving steep discounts to schools for decades for just the same reason.
They should give the money to the teachers. A salary raise would attract more qualified people as well as increase job satisfaction thus lowering the turnover rate. In my high school, teachers burn out after 3 or 4 years. Maybe with a few extra dollars they would be more inclined to stay.
Quid festinatio swallonis est aetherfuga inonusti?
Africus aut Europaeus?
Instead of computers for each student, why not let them use classroom computers when they're actually needed (for simluations in physics class, or plotting in math, or whatever) and instead hand out books to stimulate their minds and actually teach them something?
Perhaps they can start with some easy-to-digest classics of the Western canon, like Aeschylus, Swift, Twain, Shakespeare, etc., and then move on to the more difficult philosophical works of Donne, Rosseau, Locke, Jefferson, Hamilton, etc.
Most of this stuff I didn't get to read in high school because the standards were too low even in AP classes, and that's just too bad. Perhaps with fewer computers and less bullshit, and more books, better teachers, and school choice, students would actually come out of 12th grade knowing something and not requiring remedial education for their first year in college.
[ home ]
... to be a 7th grader.
Live web cams
High quality versions of the applications necessary for a young student to thrive are available on every modern OS...spreadsheets, word processors, presentations, web browsers, and other internet utilities. It's even arguable that Macs have better tools for creating multimedia content for projects, which may excite the students even more.
The purpose of the laptops isn't to teach them how to maintain a computer, it's to use the computer as a tool. That being the case, why wouldn't the state choose the platform that is more easily maintained, more secure, has a lower cost of ownership, and has fewer headaches in general?
There is no gravity...the earth just sucks.
Hmmm. I see almost no comments in favor of this. I am in favor of it, and I would support it locally with my own tax dollars...
But I have to ask - how many of the people responding even HAVE kids?
Everyone slams 6th graders like they couldn't handle a computer if it killed them. When I was in 6th grade I already had two computers. Now that was the 80's so I was unusual then, but NOW? They already know more about the computers than most adults.
If you treat them like they are too young and immature to have a laptop - then they will be. If you teach them and allow them to learn - they will grow and expand. Children expand to fit their environment. Too many people treat children like they are stupid because they are young. Lack of experience is NOT THE SAME as lack of knowlege. Kids are AMAZINGLY smart. And they will never GET the experience you all want them to have, if you never ALLOW THEM TO.
6th graders are perfectly capable of keeping laptops.
And why not start using technology in the classroom? As long as it is just a TOOL - and not the focus of the course, it is fine... What if people had said the same thing about pen and paper? "We already have chalk and slate. We don't need any new gadgets. Kids won't be able to learn." Technology moves forward, we should use the technology as a TOOL to move forward as well.
Give kids some credit - they need to learn and grow sometime!
Oh yeah, and in my opinion the iBook is more durable than most Dell offerings.
How many Slashdotters had a computer by the time they were in sixth grade? I know I did (a Vic 20).
I happen to think my high level of comfort and adaptability with computers greatly benefitted from my early exposure to the computer.
I also know that I WORSHIPPED that piece of crap with its cassette drive (30 minutes to load Pac Man???) like it was the most prized object in the universe.
Now the Michigan Laptop program may be a flaming-pile-of-shit, but before everyone starts talking about idiot sixth graders, maybe they should think back to when they had their first computer, what it meant to them, and whether or not they were and idiot 6th (or 7th, or 8th) graders at the time.
While there, I was involved in a project designed to bring technology into the classrooms. The key sides of every arguement was:
1. Kids don't need it.
2. We only need one per class room.
3. Every kid needs a laptop to be successful.
Of course, each one had its own woes of "Where does the money come from," and "How do we prevent them from goofing off?"
Well, the reality is this - any system, when administered properly, can be locked down. That means they have a large choice - Mac, Windows, Linux, Novell for Windows. It's all in the planning. If they make the correct roadmap, they will require less TCO to maintain it.
Someone here asked why we would buy soemthing that losses it's value overnight, but you are looking at it for the wrong reasons. Will it be able to play HalfLife 2? Probably not, can the encylopedia be updated with the latest content from the web, showing how California elected another actor for Governor? Why yes, it can...
Technology is the future - I'm not saying that they don't need to learn to read and write, but that is what elementary school is for. I don't know about you, but I learned to read and write in cursive well before the end of third grade (hell, maybe sooner).
Vocabulary can still be taught, literary works of art can be read (this content won't change), and RIAA can get involved to provide instruments to children after they sue the parents.
And - if you made it this far - no one ever said these kids were taking them home and running around with them. That's what home directories and mapped drives are for. You should be able to sit down at any machine, log in, and do your work with the standard set of tools (office, adobe or macromedia suite, internet explorer).
You see, laptops are simply an effective use of space in an already overcrowded school environment. I can easily stash 30 laptops in a cabinent faster than I can move 30 desktops and monitors out of the way. That is why they have choosen laptops.
Better watch out - your kids will have this luxury too!
--
Sound In Motion DJs - Official Music Provider of the San Jose Sharks!
Since ~40% of kids graduating from high school can't read, guess what those kids are going to do... surf the porn/Britney Spears photo crap etc. First teach kids to read, write and do math.
These people are crazy. I don't think I've heard of anything more wasteful and useless in my life. I thought it was bad when South Dakota's previous governor kept putting Dell desktops in computer labs throughout public schools and universities, because they rarely ever got used. Not only that, but they were expensive, and kept getting replaced.
Now, there's this. Laptops for 6th graders. What braindead politician came up with this one? For one, a 6th grade kid is usually not responsible enough to take care of his bicycle, let alone a commercial electronics device with sensitive equipment that costs 5 times as much. They'll be broken within days as they put them in their laptops and lug them about.
That is, if they last for more than day to begin with. As someone else has mentioned, kids like money. Unless these kids are hardcore geeks, careful, and can run like a bat out of hell, chances are these laptops will a) be stollen or b) be sold within the first couple days. A laptop that is seen as primarily for writing reports and papers, is big (for their age) and heavy, and has to be lugged around is not something that a kid would want, when they could sell it and buy, say, two or three years of the most trendy clothing and toys. These are middle schoolers we're talking about, here.
What's more, they're 6th graders. I don't know if you guys remember 6th grade or not, but the majority of 6th graders in my school were affraid of the upper classmen (7th and 8th), because there were always a few that would pick fights, and there was always the chacne that your stuff would be stollen. I'm sure some 7th or 8th grader that didn't get a laptop will want one, and know just where to get one.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers