Napster Pre-Paid Cards

G4Outcast writes "According to this CNN Money article, Napster will be offering pre-paid cards costing $14.85 at several retail locations. I guess the iTunes gift certificate and allowance idea is catching on."

Comments

Dumb question

[wrinkledshirt]

Are any of these ideas going to make it worth it to stop using Kazaa?

Re:Dumb question

[Anonymous Coward]

Totally dependent on whether or not you get slapped with a lawsuit methinks..

Re:Dumb question

[Neophytus]

Totally dependent on whether or not you get slapped with a lawsuit methinks..

And, so far, nobody has. Only threats. It saves the costly fees involved in actually taking legal action.

Re:Dumb question

[wrinkledshirt]

Well, the question wasn't for me, really.

I just think it's stupid for these companies to be trying to compete with each other when the REAL competition is Kazaa. That's what's going to be determining whether or not they can make a profit.

Re:Dumb question

[JW Troll]

No. Why would anybody pay to support the oppressive copyright regime?
We have a moral mandate to pirate, my friend.

Re:Dumb question

[CrankyFool]

Sort of depends on what you're trying to do and what your priorities are, right?

I have an interest, but not an overwhelming interest, in downloading free music. My priorities, however, are:
A) Be able to reasonably use the music I get (download to my work system, my notebook, my home desktop; burn CDs; listen on my iPod) and not feel as though I have to go "God damn this DRM!"
B) Get the music I want without having it bundled with crap (requires the ability to purchase songs rather than just albums);
C) Get a single song for a decent price ($.99 is reasonable; $3.49 for a CD of a single isn't);
D) Be able to get the song I want;
E) Be able to get the song I want easily;
F) Be able to get the song I want quickly
G) Reasonable sound quality (which is important, but given that my ears don't seem to have a problem with 128Kbit MP3s isn't really an issue)

Based on these priorities, FOR ME ITMS is a really, really good match. I've not yet felt hampered by its DRM (though admittedly, the first thing I do is burn a CD of my protected AACs and rip it); its prices are reasonable; downloads are wicked-fast; and one of these days I'll be able to access it from work though our password SOCKS proxy. I hope. :)

Here's an example of what I have to go through right now:

I wanted to get ATB's "Let You Go" yesterday. The first thing I tried was ITMS, but they have no tracks by him; so then I tried Kazaa, where there were three copies of the song, but all downloads were stuck at 'searching for more sources.' Finally, after a thirty minute search on the net I was able to find the MP3. Would I have paid $.99 to get this song from ITMS? In a heartbeat.

And that's why Kazaa is -- again, for me -- a backup to ITMS for any music I *really* like. I still use it for music I essentially get because it's free and wouldn't pay for, but that's less important to me. If I could get all my music from ITMS and could get only porn from Kazaa, I'd still be a happy camper (though with a few less mp3s on my hard drive).

Re:Dumb question

[Anonymous Coward]

t-t-t-t-TROLL

Re:Dumb question

[Anonymous Coward]

Kazaa? EWWWWWWWWWWWWW!

Let's see, improperly labeled artists/songs, often gets stuck at 'Searching for more sources', generally crappy sound quality in those available. (I mean, who records at less than 128? 128 was considered the minimum acceptable standard 5 years ago yet I still see people ripping and sharing 96kbps MP3s.)

You've heard the joke, haven't you?
Q: How do you turn a high-quality MP3 into a low quality one?
A: Put it on Kazaa.

What's really unfortunate is that there's no widely used superior alternatives out there.

Re:Dumb question

[public_class_name_ex]

You mean you don't enjoy the hidden software which installs itself and facilitates the targeting of advertisements at you while you browse the web? For me this not only alleviates the guilt of sharing files, but also helps me realise I really do need to order a tiny web cam sold by women in provocative clothing.

Re:Dumb question

[DragonMagic]

I have an interest, but not an overwhelming interest, in downloading free music. My priorities, however, are:

C) Get a single song for a decent price ($.99 is reasonable; $3.49 for a CD of a single isn't);

That would be free as in beer, right?

Re:Dumb question

[CrankyFool]

Yup, free as in beer. But overwhelmingly, my interest is in downloading reasonably priced music. "Reasonably priced" as in beer (or at least "reasonably priced beer.")

Re:Dumb question

[Anonymous Coward]

Jews have all the money and will never pay retail for music.

Re:Dumb question

[Anonymous Coward]

And that's why we have all the money. Mazel tov. ;)

coincedence?

[Suppafly]

The Napster Card will cost $14.85, entitling the user to 15 downloads -- in line with prices of newer rivals -- and will be available at 14,000 locations in mid-November at such major retail chains as Best Buy (BBY: down $1.17 to $53.64, Research, Estimates), CompUSA, Safeway (SWY: down $0.35 to $21.16, Research, Estimates), Rite Aid (RAD: down $0.06 to $5.68, Research, Estimates) and Duane Reade (DRD: down $0.30 to $13.50, Research, Estimates).

It's kind of odd how the stock prices are down for every company that is planning on selling these pre-paid napster cards.

Re:coincedence?

[Trigun]

Being as the stock market is more down than up anymore, I'd say that yes, it is a coincidence.

Hopefully Christmas will make these stocks rebound. My portfolio could use a Christmas present.

Re:coincedence?

[Acidic_Diarrhea]

It's not really that odd. Especially since stocks are bought and sold on the whims of the total market view - if the market has a bad day, chances are most stocks went down. Stock prices go up and down in groups, especially if they serve similar customer groups. You might also want to note the size of the drops.

Re:coincedence?

[Anonymous Coward]

Being as the stock market is more down than up anymore

WTF? The DJIA is up over 2000 points since March.

Re:coincedence?

[Trigun]

Still down since 2000 if you want to talk long term.
If you want to talk short term, it's up since Friday, when it took a punch to the belly from Thursday.

Re:coincedence?

[grocer]

yes, the stock drops are a coincedence, in so far as they are unrelated to Napster cards. It's not a coincedence all those stocks dropped, tho, because the are all retail chains.

I think what we see here is Napster targeting a more widespread market market than Apple. Apple offers, at its core, an intergrated Personal Computing solution. When that solution started to include media & entertainment, they responded by slowly making DVD players basically standard across the line and introducing the iPod for a music/user interface away from the computer. iTunes merely intergrates Apple's iPod into the consumers purchasing of music.

Napster & other music services are now springing up to fill a gap more akin to satellite radio i.e. custom, individual driven content delivery rather than intergration of the personal computer into life.

At least that's my take, it's significant because it shows an aim towards selling content rather than in selling hardware.

Re:coincedence?

[Anonymous Coward]

Still down since 2000 if you want to talk long term.

Still up since 1973 if you want to talk longer term. What's your point? It ain't "more down than up" anymore. It's up almost 35% in less than a year.

Re:coincedence?

[Rude Turnip]

Long term is more on the scale of 20-40 years. If you're in the market for a quick buck, you deserve everything that happens to you.

Re:coincedence?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's kind of odd how the stock prices are down for every company that is planning on selling these pre-paid napster cards.

Meanwhile, Apple's stock is up:

AAPL Last: 23.72 Change: +1.12 +4.96%

The beginning of the end.

[Masque]

How long will it be until we see Howie Long and Hulk Hogan singing a duet about an online music service?

"A dollar! Why, you can get a song up to 20 minutes long for just NINETY-NINE cents! Just dial 10-10-NAP-STER!"

*bangs head on desk*

Re:The beginning of the end.

[NumLk]

or Carrot Top pitching it to little girls

Re:The beginning of the end.

[Paladin144]

Actually, it will probably be Randy "Macho Man" Savage doing the singing.

If this isn't the beginning of the end, then we may be in for a long period of tribulation.

Re:The beginning of the end.

[nucal]

In case you were wondering, Carrot Top has one ugly web site ...

Here's the problem with these paid services.

[ahfoo]

I cranked up Kazaa yesterday to see what the numbers looked like. I saw 4.1 million.
Well, back when I used to check in more frequently a few months ago I rarely saw it that high. I tried some searches and it seems it's all more or less back where it was.
So, this shock and awe thing seems like a memory already. I mean what even happened to the first batch. As far as I can the majority settled for a few grand and then a whole bunch decided to fight. Well, where's the shock and awe in that? Obviously people are going to wait to see what happens in the courts. But in the mean time they're going to forget about it.
It would have been one thing if it started as a hundred suits followed by a thousand and then by ten thousand. That would have done something. But this 200 every two months is not all that shocking or awe worthy.
But of course that would also have provoked even more congressional attention. So either way they were fucked which is what evrybody said from the beginning and now it still seems to be true.

I assume...

[fejikso]

They've already made some analysis to conclude that there are enough users who are interested in buying that service and don't have a credit card.

I mean, making and distributing these cards so widely is not an easy or cheap business...

In my personal case, I do have a credit card, but I am not interested in the service (yet), so I don't give a damn :)

Re:I assume...

[public_class_name_ex]

Making and distributing cards should probably cost less than making a CD. (If you don't count the jewel case and liner, but then, another poster suggested they wouldn't even need to be plastic but would instead be a print of some form of user id and one time password. I *really* want them to start bitching about their razor thin profit margins when that happens.)

what the...

[slim hades]

"The company is aiming the card at teen-agers without credit cards and parents who want to give the gift of legal music downloads. " and then the RI*A can sue the parents.... brilliant... (why does "give the gift of legal music downloads" sound like a Public Service Announcement? I wonder what kids are forced to watch in school nowadays.)

Re:what the...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll give the gift of a pearl necklace to your sister!

Re:what the...

[Random832]

why would the RIAA sue them for paying to legally download music?

Re:what the...

[glitch23]

I wonder what kids are forced to watch in school nowadays

depends on what class they are in but for sex ed. i'm sure its something along the lines of how to put a condom on a dildo

Amazing

[cubicledrone]

The sheer brilliance of iTunes continues to echo across the computer and entertainment industries.

Apple has proven what shareware authors have known for years: good service and convenience are more valuable than the data itself.

Now that there is a valid business model, everybody wants to be as cool as Apple.

Re:Amazing

[MisterFancypants]

The whole gift card system isn't all that unique to iTunes. Various MMORPGs have had similar systems in place since before iTunes shipped (yes, even before it shipped on the Mac).

Re:Amazing

[phreak03]

Its not a viable buisness model though,
Apple openly admits they make no profit from Itunes, and if they ever will it will be tiny.

Its just a marketing ploy to sell more IPODS (my 15 gig sitting on my desk, is the envey of everyone in the dorm)

70cents goes dirrect to the record company after a sale, the reset is split between the artist, and apple wich then has to pay for

1. marketing
2. bandwidth
3. Infastrcture
4. genral staff

pennies a transaction isn't enough to support such a buisness unless its on the scale of credit card transactions.

Re:Amazing

[Jon Abbott]

You know what they say about imitation...

Re:Amazing

[Anonymous Coward]

Its not a viable buisness model though,

If it ain't running a deficit, it's a viable business model by definition.

Re:Amazing

[Anonymous Coward]

Neither of them are "cool" until they make a client that will run on my computer. I can already get nearly everything I want...what's to stop me from continuing to do this, especially given no "legitimate" option. I can see myself using this service, but until they make a client to run on non-mainstream OSs, I guess I'll stick to walking down the used record shop and pick up whole albums for $7, or firing up some p2p clients...Sure beats their prices and I can do whatever I want with the CD once I have it.

Re:Amazing

[the_2nd_coming]

it willbe running a deficet. just becasue the service gets some money from a transaction does not mean their costs for the transaction were more than they got.

Re:Amazing

[Anonymous Coward]

huh?

Re:Amazing

[Anonymous Coward]

hey fool, iTunes runs on WINE. TRY IT!!

Re:Amazing

[Phroggy]

70cents goes dirrect to the record company after a sale, the reset is split between the artist, and apple

Not quite - 70 cents (or whatever the amount is) goes to the record company, and the record company pays the artist out of that. Apple doesn't pay artists directly (nor should they; that would be silly).

And speaking of credit card transactions, you forgot to mention that another piece of Apple's 30-cent share goes to Visa/Mastercard. Apple arranged a special deal with the credit card companies to make iTMS possible; they didn't make it free.

Re:Amazing

[clf8]

Time for a reality check: Napster's prepaid cards are NOT based on Apple's Allowance. Unless you're telling me a company of that size can get several other very large retail outlets to carry said cards in under a month.

You've got at least a week for Napster to come up with their concept, and figure out all the legalese. Then you've got to convince stores that sell real physical CDs to sell these cards that will take business away from them if they really catch on. Finally, where's the profit? Napster has to be "losing" money on these, since Must Buy isn't going to sell them just for fun.

Re:Amazing

[echeslack]

Shouldn't they just make the default be to buy in "Shopping Cart" mode instead of one song at a time? That way they save on the credit card transactions. (It may be the default, I can't remember, but I thought I had to change it to "Shopping Cart" mode when I tried it out.)

Re:Amazing

[Phroggy]

Shouldn't they just make the default be to buy in "Shopping Cart" mode instead of one song at a time?

Instant gratification. With a shopping cart, you can change your mind before checking out, particularly when you see the total amount of money you're about to spend. $0.99 at a time doesn't seem like as much money, so you're more likely to buy more. At least that's what Apple is hoping.

Re:Amazing

[Electroly]

Even when you're not using the shopping cart, they aggregate your credit card charges. Any purchases you make within 24 hours or so goes on the same credit card charge.

They should have donation cards.

[Thinkit3]

So you can tip whatever you want from your card. Overall they could make more money, as some people would pay more than ninety-nine cents (ugh, marketing price).

Re:They should have donation cards.

[dasmegabyte]

Hey. I'm going to post the same response I make to all of your completely idiotic pleas for a world based on tips:

You're an idiot.

Expanded:

If you have ever lived as a waiter, delivery boy or member of any other profession where your income was largely based on tips, you'd know that tips are encouragement to suck up to people and treat them nice. This does not necessarily mean doing what you want to do, or acting in such a way that expresses your individuality. In short, tips encourage compliance and supplication.

Music, on the other hand, is best when it is expressive, original and strong willed. Hence jazz, blues, rock and hip-hop. Art is about expression. It cannot exist in the realm of "pay-what-you-like."

You want music to be tip based because you're greedy and don't feel like you should pay what things are worth. You think that by making music payrates scalable, that somebody else will pay off your favorite musicians so you can enjoy them on the cheap.

Musicians with a popular sound are best served by record labels who can spread their music over a large area of listeners for a smaller return. Musicians with a more targetted sound are best served by labels that can allow them to self promote and return a much larger percentage of profits. The only musicians who are best served by a tip based system are street beggars.

Heh

[Anonymous Coward]

When someone figures out how to steal them, then maybe people here would be interested. Remember: nobody here wants to pay for anything. The motto is "* wants to be free."

Re:Heh

[Anonymous Coward]

Shit wants to be free. That's why you keep posting.

Re:Heh

[wo1verin3]

1) Purchase $10 premium Napster subscription (unlimited downloads/no burning rights)
2) Download 1000 tracks and add to playlist
3) Launch Roxio AudioCentral Sound Editor
4) Change recording source to 'wave' or 'stereo mix'
5) Disable all windows system sounds
6) Click record in Sound Editor
7) Click play in Napster
8) Come back 3 days later and stop recording in Sound Editor
9) Choose option to split tracks (based on gap of silence between tracks) in Roxio AC Sound Editor
10) Now save as MP3 files.
11) Rinse and repeat.

Re:Heh

[Anonymous Coward]

Original WAV-->Napster DRM'ed MP3-->Analog-->MP3?

Blah...I rather listen to Bon Jovi, then listen to any decent music that goes through that process.

of course...it's my life...

Re:Heh

[wo1verin3]

Where does analog come in to that process?

Correct me if I'm wrong...

[Undaar]

...but shouldn't a gift certificate to steal things be free? :)

Stock ratings

[John Hansen]

Does anyone else find it amusing that all the companies offering these prepaid cards for sale have had hits on their stock prices? Sure, it's probably unrelated, but hey...

And what about the security of this scheme? Surely they have to have a way of authenticating the cards, or otherwise there's going to be a horde of duplicates flooding the market.

Re:Stock ratings

[oaklybonn]

And:

APPLE COMP INC (RTM/ECN)
Symbol: AAPL
Last Trade: 23.28 2:56PM ET
After Hours Change: N/A
Today's Change: 0.68 (3.01%)
Bid: 23.23
Ask: 23.27

Re:Stock ratings

[jdkincad]

Surely they have to have a way of authenticating the cards, or otherwise there's going to be a horde of duplicates flooding the market.

I assume they could be activated the same way I've seen phone cards activate after purchase. They are read by the credit card reader which calls home and says card number $FOO has been purchased for $BAR dollars.

Best Buy?

[techstar25]

Why would someone drive to Best Buy to get this pre-paid card, then drive home to download the songs? While you're at Best Buy why don't you just buy the CD? It would certainly be cheaper than $14.85. Is it to make a compilation?

Re:Best Buy?

[ReNeGaDe75]

Because they don't want a whole CD. Perhaps they want songs from various CD's.

Re:Best Buy?

[mblase]

While you're at Best Buy why don't you just buy the CD? It would certainly be cheaper than $14.85.

Because the card is good for any 15 singles you want, while the CD is good for one album with maybe one or two singles you want.

Re:Best Buy?

[Trigun]

To make a compilation, or to give as a gift to your bratty nephew because you don't know what kind of heroin induced crap he's listening to this week.
Take your pick.

Re:Best Buy?

[Master Bait]

And if you don't have to have your music right now why not buy used CD on ebay, cut your mp3s and sell the same used CD on ebay?

Re:Best Buy?

[Osty]

Why would someone drive to Best Buy to get this pre-paid card, then drive home to download the songs?

Because you want to use Napster but don't have a credit card? More likely these will be used as gifts, though.

While you're at Best Buy why don't you just buy the CD? It would certainly be cheaper than $14.85. Is it to make a compilation?

What are the chances you intend to buy every song on a CD? Instead, you'll probably buy 15 different songs from 15 different albums, like you suggested for compilations. However, CDs aren't cheaper than $14.85 anywhere I've been. Some are, but most CDs are marked at $15 and higher before tax, not $9.99. Even if you add the cost of blank media to burn your purchases, you're just starting to get to the after-tax cost of a CD.

Re:Best Buy?

[sabNetwork]

Uhh that's violating copyright law. Why don't you just download them online at that point? It would be a lot easier.

Re:Best Buy?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because you want to use Napster but don't have a credit card?

If someone has a car I'm sure they'll already have a credit card.

Re:Best Buy?

[seinman]

You need to shop around more for CDs. Sure, at (ripoff) chain record stores, they cost that much. Start shopping at places like Walmart and Target for music... you'll find very few CDs above $15, most between $10 and $12.

Re:Best Buy?

[CrazyTalk]

They are most likely driving to Best Buy just for the card. However, if they are there already looking at TVs or washing machines and see a display of the cards, they might think, "Hey, that would make a nice christmas gift/stocking stuffer" and pick one up.

Re:Best Buy?

[Osty]

If someone has a car I'm sure they'll already have a credit card.

What about a 16 year old that just got a license and a job to pay for a car, but mommy and daddy aren't rich or don't spoil him, and so he does't have his own credit card? You can't get your own credit card until you're 18, so if mommy and/or daddy don't pony up, he's stuck. If you think about it, teens are the prime music-buying demographic, so Napster et al need to make it dead simple for these teens to be able to buy music.

Re:Best Buy?

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder why Best Buy would sell Napster cards, because they're already selling Real's Rasphody service in their stores.

Interesting...

Re:Best Buy?

[Osty]

Very true, but the story was about Best Buy, and Best Buy's prices tend to range around $15 on average last I checked.

Re:Best Buy?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmmm....OT, but I'm willing to bet your granduncle was saying the same thing a twenty years ago.
Heroin-induced crap?
Velvet Underground ( || Lou Reed ).
Janis Joplin.
Pantera ( not that old, but hey ).
Most of the crap coming out now isn't drug-induced, it's greed-induced.
Nods off now...

Clever

[mr_tommy]

A very clever marketting idea. It removes any consumer fear of using credit cards on the internet, and simplifies the process such that its as easy and as convenient as topping up your pay as you go phone.

Maybe this napster come back wont be a flop after all.

napster

[Anonymous Coward]

The prepaid cards, in my opinion, are summed up in this quote:

When i wanted to talk to you I couldn't. Now that I can, I don't want to.

I believe that the prepaid cards wont catch on because there is still man ways to get stuff for free.

whatever

[Paladin144]

Oh...MY....GOD! Napster is like, so 1999! Give...me... a .... break!

Even ditzes know iTunes has Napster by the short and curlies. However, I will withhold judgment until I see the new Napster in action....iTunes is gonna be tough to beat, though.

Re:whatever

[ChuckCaves]

Napster is good... the software is stable... downloads speeds are good... .99 singles and 9.95 CD's... unlimited burns from purchased tunes....

unlimited downloads with the 9.95 premium service (these are only playable from computer) community access to check out other peoples playlists... send songs to other members etc.

Incredible inventory of high quality tunes (over 1/2 million)

I haven't used iTunes... but I have used the new Napster... I give it an 8 out of 10

Take a shower hippie

[Anonymous Coward]

P.S. I'll suck your dick for $5

And in other news....

[batura]

Napster will be offering the public a new, improved failed business plan.

YOU'RE A FUCKWIT

[Trolling4Dollars]

Just thought I'd let you know you fucking cuntflap.

Where's Napster's Suger?

[Doesn't_Comment_Code]

From all I've read, Apple makes very little from the selling of songs. iTunes DOES promote the iPod, which is a cash cow.

If the new (hechem.. fake) Napster is selling songs for about the same price, how are they going to make enough money to stay in business?

Re:Where's Napster's Suger?

[DrEldarion]

It's Napster! They don't HAVE to have a business plan to make money! (at least last time they didn't)

Re:Where's Napster's Suger?

[Doesn't_Comment_Code]

But this time they seem to be less blissfully unencumbered. In fact, I beleive Napster is now a completely different entity - basically a business that wanted to make money, that bought the Napster name in order to jump start publicity and credibility.

I fear the Napster we all knew and loved is inexorably dead and gone.

Re:Where's Napster's Suger?

[asv108]

From all I've read, Apple makes very little from the selling of songs

If you consider all the promotion expenses, Apple has probably lost a lot of money when looking at the music service alone, but the ipod is a cash cow with a fat margin that makes up for ITMS. I'm sure way apple is looking at the ITMS in the short term is a way to sell ipods, in the long term it could be a hit, but the online music distribution industry is real young and inundated with failures.

Re:Where's Napster's Suger?

[Johnny Mnemonic]

That's what the parent post said. So the question remains: how is Napster et al going to be profitable, since they don't have the margin of an "iPod alike" to take to the bank? Especially since they presumably have to pay MSFT for their encoding technology, also. And, they have to compete with every other WMA enabled $.99 download music site.

Well, it could be that a) MSFT is giving a discount on their encoding tech, to get it established in the marketplace; but wait until it gets established. Then MSFT will triple the prices, and what are you going to do? They've done this before. Or, b) it could be that Napster gets some kick from the portable music players. No question that digitized music helps sells players for said music, so maybe the top 5 manufacturers all pay Napster something back. Finally, c) it could be that Apple just isn't managing the iTMS revenues very well, so a more efficient company is able to actually make money on the music alone. I don't know what Apple's expenses are well enough to know if the cost of the iTMS is reducible or not; for instance, is it bandwidth cost? Server cost? Dunno.

Re:Where's Napster's Suger?

[pyros]

If they pay less per sale to the RIAA than Apple does than they will have a a better profit margin. (Perhaps in exchange for more restritive DRM, not that I know anything about the DRM restrictions used by Napster).

Re:Where's Napster's Suger?

[marcinjeske]

Umm... yep.

Was anyone here (on SlashDot) really under the misimpression that this was the original Napster coming back in new improved form...

Nope, this is just the Napster brand snapped up out of bankruptcy by Roxio. In fact, 'I' believe Roxio just updated and rebranded the Pressplay servce they bought from the record companies.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid that many casual users will make the mistake of thinking they can finally fir up their old Napster client, or download a new version of the web... they will be disappointed... which might be good for iTunes in the long run.

-Marcin

Re:Where's Napster's Suger?

[bill_mcgonigle]

I don't know what Apple's expenses are well enough to know if the cost of the iTMS is reducible or not; for instance, is it bandwidth cost? Server cost? Dunno.

From Boston.com:

The Cupertino-based company is already paying hefty royalties to the five major record labels for the right to distribute their music online. It pays the labels an estimated 65 cents per song in addition to about 25 cents per song in other distribution and credit card processing fees.

So, they have 10 cents per song to pay for infrastructure and make a profit. A little more than that for songs bought in groups (lower credit card fee per song). If they sell 100 Million Songs by April, that's $10M, $20M on the outside for the first year. I can't imagine that's much more than break-even - somebody had to digitize all that content from tape, build the applications, build the server farms, pull in the OC3's, negotiate all the deals, etc.

Now, Napster could save that 25 cents/song credit card fee by selling pre-paid cards. This is at least partially why Apple is offering allowances.

But Apple's profit isn't in the $10M or even in the iPod sales. It's in proving that you can sell content without Palladium, thereby ensuring their non-extinction in the PC market. With the success of iTMS, Napster, Rhapsody, heck, even Buy.com, Microsoft is going to have a hard time selling the line that you need to use their secure hardware to engage in commerce of copyrighted materials. Apple is most likely rooting for the competition, since they're just helping prove its point. They have first-mover advantage, the best UI, and a mini-media-mogul at the helm, so the market is theirs to lose.

Re:Where's Napster's Suger?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Now, Napster could save that 25 cents/song credit card fee by selling pre-paid cards. This is at least partially why Apple is offering allowances."

They will need to sell the cards for less to the retailers then the cards are actualy worth. Unless napster has some very good deals going with retailers it will likely only take around 50%-60% of the card value.

Re:Where's Napster's Suger?

[bill_mcgonigle]

Unless napster has some very good deals going with retailers it will likely only take around 50%-60% of the card value.

Ah, good point. Well, maybe we're back to the good old days of selling at a loss and making it up on volume. :)

dotBomb 2 - Revenge of the MBA's!

Re:Where's Napster's Suger?

[awkwardone]

I'm guessing that Apple pays such large royalties to the record labels because the labels are still hesitant about embracing the technology. It doesn't fit with their traditional business model of selling full albums. Perhaps they're charging so much for the specific purpose of making iTunes unprofitable, thereby killing the service and eliminating an alternative model.

iTunes is a win-win for the record companies: the RIAA collects high royalties now in order to try to cut into the store's profits, and then if the service succeeds, they could demand more. This might cause iTunes to raise prices, thereby driving away some price-conscious customers and cutting into its profits.

I love iTunes as much as anybody else, but don't think for one second that its success necessarily means that the RIAA likes it. They'd rather have you spend $15 on a crappy CD with two good songs than buy those two good songs for $2.

Oh, I don't know

[sbma44]

I don't know about Duane Reid stores, but all those others already sell prepaid cards of one form or another, so they presumably already have systems for distribution of these things. The cards probably won't even be plastic, just a fold-out piece of paper with a one-time use code printed on them. My guess is that production costs are at most a few cents per card.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is actually a more efficient way of selling their merchandise, since they don't have to give a cut of every transaction to the credit card companies.

Re:Oh, I don't know

[British]

A one-time code? How long will it take for someone to come up with a crack for that, so they could get free tunes up the wazoo?

Wait, they could just use KazaaLite or Soulseek and forget having to crack it. Nevermind.

Re:Oh, I don't know

[sbma44]

you misunderstand why game keys are crackable. If you're working with local, installed software then the key must follow a pattern to be deemed valid. An online music service doesn't suffer from this limitation. When you have a server you can just generate random keys and make one thousandth of one percent valid. And lock accounts that enter too many incorrect keys in a given period of time.

Re:Oh, I don't know

[SmallFurryCreature]

mmm, could work like a charm here in holland. Albert Heijn, a local super market whose parent ahold is one of the larger chains world wide, already has a cheap system for prepaid phones. Just go to the checkout say you want 20 euro's for phone brand X and a code is printed on your receit. All phone brands are supported so I guess it is a really cheap way of selling them.

Why would anyone pay?

[Dj Offset]

Why would I want to pay for letting other people utilize MY upload bandwidth?

Re:Why would anyone pay?

[MrUnknown]

you dont?
the songs are downloaded off their servers for .99c each (from what I can tell its off their servers, nothing saying otherwise) and there in WMA format.
How do I know? I have the software and am using it right now, it runs directly inside Windows Media Player 9. i pre-ordered so I got 5 free songs.

Re:Why would anyone pay?

[vonFinkelstien]

Your remark shows the problems that the Napster brand is going to have.Old Napster = file sharing. New Napster = Show Me The Money.

There will be many confused (those who don't regularly check geek sites, at least) people out there concerning the new Napster.

catching up to the rest of the world...

[DraconPern]

'catching on'? It's more like a 'catching up'. The idea of using prepaid card is not new... Many people already use prepaid phone cards in the US. Game companies in Asia even sell prepaid game cards for online games (like Lineage). Game magazines often include cards with a small amount of credit so people can try out a game. Why? So a 17 year old with no credit card can try out a game without the parent knowing of course!

NAPSTER = CRAPSTER

[larry bagina]

Do subscribers get to see this early?

Or do they not see ita t all since ads are filtered?

brand awareness

[andih8u]

Most people still identify napster with getting free if not illegal mp3s. I think trying to keep the name was a bad marketing idea. Most people won't be able to figure out why they should buy downloads to something they thought was free. Keep the technology, change the name.

Re:brand awareness

[Lord_Dweomer]

As someone who's studying marketing and advertising in school....its kind of a mixed bag. What we're seeing in terms of brand awareness is a short-term goal and extreme short-sightedness.

The napster brand name will nab them in the short-run. But long term it will be their downfall for exactly the reasons you said. Of course, I'm certain many people will make plenty of money off of this before that happens.

Prepaid card show who the market is

[Squeebee]

Look at MMORPGS like Everquest. They offer pre-paid cards to tap into a very lucrative market: teens. These kids make money at part-time jobs (or receive it in allowances) and have no expenses, resulting in high levels of disposable income. Problem is teens usually lack credit cards. Without prepaid cards a lot of online services cannot tap into this market because if they can't pay cash they can't pay.

I think what we'll see next is a prepaid card that a lot of online retailers choose to accept. Oh wait, that's a check-card. Well, expect to see more teens with more check-cards in the future.

Re:Prepaid card show who the market is

[ManVsRice]

I think what we'll see next is a prepaid card that a lot of online retailers choose to accept. Oh wait, that's a check-card. Well, expect to see more teens with more check-cards in the future. The only problem with that is if you have your check card number stolen your money is not protected, whereas if your credit card number is stolen you are not responsible for paying the purchases made with it. So, most people are wary of using check cards for online purchases.

Re:Prepaid card show who the market is

[Squeebee]

Yes, but when you cannot get a credit card all this means is that your check card is just like cash, it gets stolen and you are SOL.

Re:Prepaid card show who the market is

[ghjm]

Yep, it's called the Visa BUXX card. It's been around for about three or four years now.

-Graham

Napster on Mac

[theolein]

I think the idea that napster and itunes compete is good up to the point where I see that Napster is only available on Windows, be it due to wma content or whatever. I'm not paranoid enough to believe that Microsoft is funding Napster, since MS has its own service chugging along in Europe (Apple where the fuck are you here????) Rather I believe napster did this because they assumed that Windows Media Player is the most easily accesible player on 90% of desktops and allows easy DRM.

We'll see where this goes. personally, if Apple manages to clinch a deal globally with Record companies, they might have the edge with independant musicians having easier access to the store than with Napster which is stuck squarely between the sweaty balls of the Major labels.

Re:Napster on Mac

[ghjm]

Sorry, what? I don't understand how Napster being tied to Windows means that they are any more or less "stuck between the sweaty balls" of the majors. Isn't Apple just as stuck?

-Graham

Requirements

[big_groo]

System Requirements PC only, Windows XP/2000, Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.01 or higher, Windows Media Player 7.1 or higher, Internet connectivity

And check this out from the Privacy Policy:

AUTOMATIC DATA COLLECTION

Napster Client. After you register for the Napster service, you will be prompted to download our Napster Client software application. In order to make sure the Napster Client is functioning at its best, from time to time we may send the Napster Client automatic fixes, support files, etc. Napster employs software that is used to protect the copyrights associated with the tracks you listen to or obtain. In order to make sure that artists and copyright owners receive applicable royalties, this software identifies and counts the songs you have obtained and/or accessed. At the aggregate level (i.e., not tied to the personally identifying information of any user), we use this data to report and pay royalties, for internal analysis and we share this data with certain Partners for their own analysis. We do not share your personally identifying usage data with any third parties. We may use your personally identifying usage data for a variety of service-related purposes.

From time to time, the security on the Napster Client software may be upgraded by our supplier, which is currently Microsoft. Microsoft advises us that for security upgrades, your player will connect to an Internet site operated by Microsoft and will be sent a security file, along with a unique identifier, which does not contain any personal information about you and is not used to personally identify you or track your activities. Microsoft uses this information to prevent security breaches that could affect you. For more information, please feel free to read Microsoft's privacy policy at http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windowsmedia/soft ware/v7/privacy.asp#_Security_Upgrade_(Individuali zation).

Further, when you access the service through a Partner and download the Napster Client, we will add certain of your registration information (such as your member name and, if applicable, the Partner or promotion through which you registered) to the registry settings on your computer's hard drive, so that we can recognize which of our Partners or other sign-in pages to send to you when you log on to the service.

Microsoft?? No wonder they were less than enthusiastic about iTunes for Windows.

Re:Requirements

[Graff]

Further, when you access the service through a Partner and download the Napster Client, we will add certain of your registration information (such as your member name and, if applicable, the Partner or promotion through which you registered) to the registry settings on your computer's hard drive, so that we can recognize which of our Partners or other sign-in pages to send to you when you log on to the service.

It also looks like Napster could use a good copy editor. You'd think their legal department would at least read this before they allowed it to get out.

Re:Requirements

[Anonymous Coward]

The Microsoft-as-supplier thing is referring to the security component, which is the Windows Media Rights Manager system, the DRM subsystem that ships with Windows Media Player. Licenses issued by Napster for Windows Media encoded (and encrypted) files are tied to the DRM installation on that machine.

but you'll START being silent about SCO

[Anonymous Coward]

when some kindly moderators mod you off-topic

Why credit iTunes?

[OzPhIsH]

I guess the iTunes gift certificate and allowance idea is catching on.
Gift certificates have been around for as long as I can remember. It's only natural for places of commerce to offer gift certificates nowdays. Why this is being credited to iTunes is rediculous. If a poster had said "Microsoft's gift certificate idea" I would have read 100 posts about it by now. I'd say it's pretty likely that using a gift certificate/allowance would have happened with, or with out iTunes.

Re:Why credit iTunes?

[the_2nd_coming]

why? music services have been around for years. iTunes was th first to think of gift certs and revolving allowances for parents give their kids.

it was only after that did any other service announce similar (yet not as slick, most likely to avoid patents) services for their stores.

Re:Why credit iTunes?

[OzPhIsH]

Obviously, Apple did not invent gift certificates. The adoption of a gift certificate type system is so obvious, I really don't know what else to say. It's more like Apple would be stupid NOT to do it. That doesn't make them 'innovators' that they did. The fact that "a method for using gift certifcates for online purchases" could even BE patentable is as rediculous as one click shopping. Kudos to Apple for giving us the highest quality online music store, but lets reserve giving them credit only to where it is really due, not to such obviousness as using gift certificates and allowances.

Re:Why credit iTunes?

[Anonymous Coward]

"The adoption of a gift certificate type system is so obvious, I really don't know what else to say."

If it was so obvious why didn't anyone else do it?

Re:Why credit iTunes?

[OzPhIsH]

The other services are still worrying about cutomers. You kind of need those first before you offer gift certificates anyway.

Re:Why credit iTunes?

[the_2nd_coming]

sure.....

What about the Canadians?

[JebuZ]

Does anyone have any insight into why neither Napster nor iTunes are available in Canada? It would seem that if the cards are being sold in retail locations, there shouldn't be anything stopping them from selling to other countries. Best Buy has existed in their Canadian branded store (Future Shop) for as long as I can remember, and just opened Best Buy branded stores. I'm eager to get my music legally, but I guess I'm SOL. Oh well. The CRIA (Canadian Recording Industry Association) isn't sending out sopenias, so I'm safe for now.

Re:What about the Canadians?

[Doesn't_Comment_Code]

Does anyone have any insight into why neither Napster nor iTunes are available in Canada?

Canadians pay a tax on recordable media like CD-Rs. That compensates the artists, so downloading is perfectly legal in Canada. You would have to be very dense to pay once for the media tax, and then pay AGAIN to download when the download is free and legal. And no one in Canda is dumb enough to ...

Re:What about the Canadians?

[hyperstation]

...but they do occasionally misspell the name of their super intelligent nation

Re:What about the Canadians?

[JebuZ]

IANAL, but it seems to me that the Canadian Copyright Act only states that is is okay to trade music as long as the levy is paid on blank media. If music is traded where the only physical storage media is a hard drive (There is no levy on hard drives), how does that make downloading , or trading music legal?

Re:What about the Canadians?

[Txiasaeia]

I was actually asked to install eDonkey on an RCMP officer's home computer the other day... I made some sort of wry comment about entrapment, and he told me that it's perfectly legal to download music for your own use -- it's the guys who sell pirated music who are in trouble in Canada. I now have a bulletproof alibi for music piracy.

Re:What about the Canadians?

[gray_eminence]

It's true! It's good to be a Canadian!

The Levy on recordable media allows for downloading through any service, Kazza, etc, but you are still not allowed to share your music collection.

To compare to 'old-school' recording: If a friend asks you for a copy of a CD and you make the dupe for them, you've broken the law (although it would be impossible to inforce). If you lend the CD to your friend and they make their own copy, it is perfectly legal and above-board.

This extends to filesharing in that, when someone downloads from your computer a duplicate is created. You have then made the copy for the other person and broken the law.

If you download music from someone who shouldn't be sharing it, it's not your fault they've shared it when The Man said they are not supposed to. And of course, none of this applies to software... just tunes.

So, would it be possible for an American living near the border to get Wi-Fi access from a Canadian provider? Wi-fi providers better be careful the RIAA doesn't sue them for allowing their signal to cross the border and encouraging infringement!

--- That boy's got less sense than God gave a doughnut

Re:What about the Canadians?

[Doesn't_Comment_Code]

I admit - you got me.

Re:What about the Canadians?

[Anonymous Coward]

The distribution licenses that Apple and Napster have with the record labels presumably do not allow the distributors to send the content outside the U.S. This is stupid, of course, but this is how the labels operate.

Re:What about the Canadians?

[Anonymous Coward]

Best Buy only bought Future Shop a few years ago.

Before this, Future Shop was its own beast. It was NEVER a "Canadian branded Best Buy".

Re:What about the Canadians?

[marcinjeske]

Uhhh... that doesn't make any sense... when you share files, you are not making any copies... only the person who downloads a file is actually creating a copy.

By your rationale, downloaders are criminals.

Re:What about the Canadians?

[gray_eminence]

If someone could explain how the DMCA makes sense... actually I totally agree that it's strange and bizzare, so I've taken a bit of time to find an article which explains things better. Which is a good thing, because as you'll see, I was incorrect about the right for Canadians to share files - we are in fact allowed.

I also browsed the website of the CRIA to see how they approach the filesharing networks. As far as I can tell the CRIA uses the term "illegal" because they officially feel wronged by those who use P2P networks - not because it is actually illegal under the law. If you find any info to the contrary, I'm all ears. Most people are just waking up to the reality that companies are cracking down on piracy using very drastic measures, but most of the news we hear (at least in mainstream media) is from the USA. The average Canadian is not very well aware that the crackdown of p2p networks for 'illegal' music is only across the border. There are crackdowns on other things, and groups will still flood the network with dummy files, but we're only talking music here. Sure the CRIA will protect it's rights too, but their language would lead a person to believe that downloading or sharing music in Canada is "illegal" as in "you are breaking a law." When they use the term "illegal" they really are trying to say they're against it, and it's "wrong" as in "William Shatner singing Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds."

This article, "They can blame Canada", clearly describes how Canadian copyright law is applied to Canadians. I wish I could find such an easy to read doc from a more credible source, like gov't, etc, but I think it does suffice.

Key quotes from the article:

On RIAA litigation: "As the RIAA wages its increasingly desperate campaign of litigation in terrorum to try to take down the largest American file sharers on the various P2P networks, it seems to be utterly unaware of the radically different status of private copying in Canada."

On Private Copying: "While the Digital Millennium Copyright Act may make it illegal to share copyright material in America, the Canadian Copyright Act expressly allows exactly the sort of copying which is at the base of the P2P revolution.

...""Private copying" is a term of art in the Act. In Canada, if I own a CD and you borrow it and make a copy of it that is legal private copying; however, if I make you a copy of that same CD and give it to you that would be infringement. Odd, but ideal for protecting file sharers.

"Every song on my hard drive comes from a CD in my collection or from a CD in someone else's collection which I have found on a P2P network. In either case I will have made the copy and will claim safe harbor under the "private copying" provision. If you find that song in my shared folder and make a copy this will also be "private copying." I have not made you a copy, rather you have downloaded the song yourself."

Pre-Paid Cards - Other Companies?

[pipingguy]

As the article states, it's a good idea for those who don't have credit cards/don't want to use their CCs online. I wonder if these cards will have an expiry date like some of the pre-paid cell phone ones do.

I'm behind the times in online purchasing technology, does PayPal (or another company) offer pre-paid options like this? I'm assuming that many people don't buy online due to fear - this would limit financial risk to whatever amount is the limit on the card.

Re:Pre-Paid Cards - Other Companies?

[NineNine]

Pay Pal? You'd trust a non-regulated, pseudo-financial institution with a questionable history over a credit card, which by federal law, mandates that a user can't lose more than $25?? You've got to be kidding me.

Re:Pre-Paid Cards - Other Companies?

[pipingguy]

I used PayPay as an example only. Does Visa/MC offer something like this for online purchases? I.E., exchange cash at a retail outlet (or banks?) for online dollars that can be spent anonymously.

Sure, with CCs you have limited liability, but the paperwork hassle tends to be the problem. Someone else mentioned check cards, but again, those are linked to your bank account.

I want the algorythm

[Anonymous Coward]

Used to create the information on the card...

Either that, or a client that always tells the main Napster II servers that you are authorized to download whatever...

Get out of jail free card!

[BigGerman]

Sorry could not resist.

Just wait until SCO hears about this.

[rock_climbing_guy]

Just in case we forget to pay up our SCO $699 license fees, SCO will sell gift cards to our friends who can give them to us.

The SCO gift card could be the hottest item on the market this Christmas season.

hope not

[Anonymous Coward]

i hope nobody buys one of these for me, because i only have Linux installed and i am not about to wipe my drive just to install Windoze & Napster just for a few friggin mp3s' that probably been crippled by the RIAA...

Apple Zealots

[shaka999]

What exactly did Apple pioneer in the online music area? Besides 0.99 that is?

Reminds be of the whole windows gui argument. We all know it was Apple, not Xerox :).

Re:Apple Zealots

[Anonymous Coward]

15 million sales.

Re:Apple Zealots

[Graff]

Reminds be of the whole windows gui argument. We all know it was Apple, not Xerox

Well, since it was Apple that made a deal with Xerox to use their GUI ideas and since it was Apple who first released those GUI concepts in a major commercial product then, yes it was Apple and not Xerox who popularized the GUI.

Re:Apple Zealots

[Phroggy]

What exactly did Apple pioneer in the online music area? Besides 0.99 that is?

No subscriptions, lenient DRM, a customized client integrated with an mp3 player (a more pleasant experience than using a web browser)...

Re:Apple Zealots

[shaka999]

Well by that logic we should all hail MS windows. Apple released the first versions of the gui to the marketplace but it was MS who really popularized it.

Re:Apple Zealots

[Graff]

Apple released the first versions of the gui to the marketplace but it was MS who really popularized it.

It is debatable as to if Microsoft popularized it or not. Certainly Microsoft has the most market share for a GUI but that doesn't mean they popularized it, it just means that they sold a higher percentage of systems with it.

It was Apple that first introduced GUI concepts to the "ordinary" person. Yes, the Xerox Alto was a groundbreaking computer but it was intended as a high-end workstation that was used by relatively few people. By the time that Microsoft Windows came around most people had already heard of, had seen, or had used a Macintosh.

Re:Apple Zealots

[Anonymous Coward]

What exactly did Apple pioneer in the online music area? Besides 0.99 that is?

Dolt, it doesn't matter who does it first. What matters is who does it better or best.

Reminds be of the whole windows gui argument. We all know it was Apple, not Xerox :).

But Apple did it better.

Answer

[m_niessner]

The Beatles - Eleanor Rigby : $0.99
The Who's Greatest Hits: $9.99
War - Low Rider : $0.99

Getting Slapped with a $100,000 lawsuit by the RIAA for downloading from Kazzaa instead of Napster: Priceless

When can I sell my songs through this thing?

[tjstork]

Really, the old "who needs a recording industry" rule still applies in the age of DRM. Potentially we could all sell our music through the web site. Perhaps we could pay each other $1 to read poetry to each other. Now that's an economy!

Re:When can I sell my songs through this thing?

[the_2nd_coming]

if you are good, why not see if these guys will sign you.

you get 50% of sales.

Settling

[reptilicus]

Hmm, thinking about it, if the RIAA is willing to settle for $2000, as they seem to be, then if you download 100-150 albums (at $15-20 each), you come out ahead of the deal, even if you are one of the tiny minority they actually threaten to sue.

Re:Settling

[armyofone]

Maybe. I still don't see the allure of paying nearly the same amount for an inferior product. I much prefer to buy the CD, (used), and rip it for mobile convenience and backup purposes.

But then again... I don't file-share online either.

Re:Settling

[Anonymous Coward]

No kidding. Let's say you fit about eight albums at a decent bitrate on a CDR. If you burn twenty CD-Rs before you get sued, you're even. If you burn forty you've got half price. If you burn a hundred you're getting an incredible twenty percent clearance price. How low can you go?
If you burn a thousand CD-Rs before you get sued, the RIAA will actually give you a slight refund.
And if you can burn ten thousand CD-Rs before making it into the one in a million RIAA lottery, they will actually give you a recording contract!
That's true. Really. I was surprised when I heard it myself.

Re:Settling

[Anonymous Coward]

As far as I know they haven't sued anybody for downloading. Only uploading.

Re:Settling

[Ohreally_factor]

I was under the impression that the RIAA was going after the uploaders, not the downloaders. Am I mistaken?

Re:Settling

[Anonymous Coward]

Look you fruitcakes, it's not the point of whether you got sued for downloading, it's about the equivalent value you would need to make the penalty for uploading equal to a paid service.
But anyway, what the heck makes you guys think the RIAA is really being careful about whether you were uploading or downloading? They've already accused Mac users of running Kazaa and people who don't speak Spanish of distributing obscure South American spoken word tracks? Do you seriously think they're playing with strict rules? Hell no, they're just going for it. I don't think turning off downloding is going to help you if your name is called. But as the parent post points out, probably your name won't get called so it doesn't matter upload, download no big deal at this point.

Are Mac Zealots

[asv108]

Now saying that Apple invented the gift certificate and the GUI?

Re:Are Mac Zealots

[bigjnsa500]

Sounds like it to me.

Re:Are Mac Zealots

[the_2nd_coming]

no, they never said that...they just say Apple did it right.

Interesting Marketing

[Goyuix]

iTunes is lacking in a brick-and-mortar placement. It might show up on a magazine cover or something, but by Napster having these cards at the checkout of a grocery store line, it opens up marketing potential (people just seeing it helps it be regonized) and also people tend to throw additional things in their cart while they wait to check out. Why do you think they have both sides of the checkout isle lined with various "convenience" items. It isn't uncommon to grab a pack of gum, candy bar, lighter - whatever.

Granted we are talking about ~1 dollar instead of ~15, but still this could definitely be a good business move for Napster.

Re:Interesting Marketing

[microcars]

and how many of these pre-paid Cards will be purchased as GIFTS that never get redeemed?

they either get given to Apple users (who can't use them), or the card gets lost or accidently thrown away.

and if nothing else it builds Brand Awareness.

I can see these being printed up and used as corporate schwag, given away at trade shows to be associated with any number of other products.
A one-song card could be stuck in a Cereal Box.

Re:Interesting Marketing

[Anonymous Coward]

Watch Apple's press event when iTunes for Windows was unveiled.

Apple has struck an exclusive deal with AOL, instantly adds a potential 25 million customers as well as a major deal with Pepsi in which 300 million Pepsi bottles will have a yellow cap, of which 100 million are for a free iTunes download. Now thats exposure.

Re:Interesting Marketing

[slappyjack]

and how many of these pre-paid Cards will be purchased as GIFTS that never get redeemed?

Interesting businessy factoid on these card thingies:
In many cases, gift cards/gift certificates can add up to a bigass liability on the balance sheet of companies that issue them. It can add up to a nasty accounting issue if done wrong.

figure this: You print up 10,000 cards to put on the shelves for sale at $14.99. They go out to the public and are sold.

You now must have the $149,900 worth of shit in stock to cover people using them, because you technically just sold that "inventory".

Also, electronically based gift cards are a bit of an issue, especially if theyre not registered in some way. One pissed off stockeroom employee at WalMart with sticky fingers can take home a free $600 worth of music downloads for his friends in his pocket without making much of a bulge.

Now you have $600 of "inventory" you have to give them and you get nothing for it.

Re:Interesting Marketing

[microcars]

...One pissed off stockeroom employee at WalMart with sticky fingers can take home a free $600 worth of music downloads for his friends in his pocket without making much of a bulge.

well, I know that my SAMS CLUB ATT phone card is useless until they SCAN it at the checkout.

maybe they'll use them electronicamable doodads on these cards too.

hey, I don't really care who wins, I just want a good fight!

Re:Interesting Marketing

[Nodatadj]

Also, electronically based gift cards are a bit of an issue, especially if theyre not registered in some way. One pissed off stockeroom employee at WalMart with sticky fingers can take home a free $600 worth of music downloads for his friends in his pocket without making much of a bulge.

This happens quite a lot with the pay-as-you-go phonecards. An employee steals them and sells them half price, or gives them to his mates.

Re:Interesting Marketing

[marcinjeske]

Perhaps you've heard of such a thing as an Apple Store... or an Apple retailer.

ITunes has brick-and-mortars placement... not in places like convenience stores (where $15 looks like alot), but at stores selling thousand dollar computer equipment... think about it... Apple could encourage you to slip in a iTunes Card with your new iMac.

Placement in all those grocery stores may be huge for Napster... but there are already a lot of cards for sale at those places already.

Legal Music Download Survey

[oscast]

osViews.com has an interesting survey which asks its readers which of the paid music services people the plan on using to buy legal music. The results are very interesting.

Re:Legal Music Download Survey

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, I would have thought that Napster 2.0 would have help a little more clout than that. It looks like iTMS is really going to clean up with their service.

Re:Legal Music Download Survey

[Anonymous Coward]

I've never heard of osViews before. Very nice. The site has a few visual cues that remind me of osOpinion.com (now closed). Anyone know if theres a connection?

Re:Legal Music Download Survey

[JDBrechtel]

Yes, with 160 votes that's nearly 75% of people who will be buying music online so this is a very relevant survey.

Re:Legal Music Download Survey

[oscast]

Still impressive, but actually, the figure is closer to 62% rather than 75%. (The bottom three options give the responder to also choose:

Buy CD, rip MP3, repeat

Only the illegal stuff for me thanks...

DRM not compatible with my OS you insensitive clod

Re:Legal Music Download Survey

[Anonymous Coward]

"Anyone know if theres a connection?"

Apparently so.

I also read somewhere that osOpinion was suing its parent (I forget its name) company. (looking for the link)

Re:Legal Music Download Survey

[Arkham]

The results seem to be in line with sales so far. Apple has accounted for over 70% of all legal online music downloads. It's no surprise that they would be the leader.

I've bought/downloaded some songs from iTMS. I've downloaded a lot more than that from Gnutella. But now that I can get songs via iTMS, I go there first because it's so much easier than trying to find the right song by the right band at the right bitrate with the right metadata. With Apple's store, I know what quality to expect -- the only question is whether they have it or not.

MOD PARENT UP!!!!

[router_ninja]

I got your back yo.

You mention Howie and Hulk and you leave out ...

[burgburgburg]

Alf? What were you thinking? How is that even possible? What, are you some sort of cat?

Napster Card...

[bcolflesh]

...Napster the Possibilities!

what a deal?

[blanks]

Do they really think this will work? Why would people go to a store that sells music to buy one of these cards when they can just buy the music while they are at the store?

So your options are.
1 Buy music at store
2 Buy card to download same music you could have bought at store.
3 Buy beer and download music for free.

I could really use a drink.

Re:what a deal?

[i_r_sensitive]

No, your options are:

1) Buy CD at store, of course you may not want the whole CD in which case you will seriously consider:

2) Buy card which will let you mix and match what you want to download.

3) Buy beer and download music for free, while you're at it, drink a toast to the music you are killing.

IMHO, people who are downloading music for free are not doing so to protest the profiteering of music companies. No, they are doing it to get something for nothing. Well folks, it isn't for free. So far it has cost you the whole DRM bullshit, and RIAA and it's lawsuits.

And, it's only going to get more effective from here. That whole free music thing is driven by CDs folks. Who makes the CDs? Why should they continue to do so in the face of objective reality? What is to stop them from changing their distribution vector as an industry?

If however, you legitimately do have moral or ethical objections to the profiteering behaviour of the recording industry, then you have options which make far more sense.

There are a few sites out there that allow artists to sell their music on-line, one of them even owned by one of the founders of RedHat. Doesn't this make more sense? You are supporting the artists whose music brings you pleasure, helping to ensure that they can do so into the future. As well you aren't giving your money to the record companies. But you are sending a clear message to those companies. The message is, I can support a service which sends most (I think 80%) of the revenues to the artists, but I will not support your profiteering.

The most powerful vote you have is with your dollars. Downloading music for free which you should be paying for is not voting, it does not send a clear message. Worse still you are exacerbating the problem.

Re:what a deal?

[blanks]

I work with a lot of bands in my area, and I have talked to a lot of them about this same situation, pirating music, and people "stealing" from them. Most of them laugh and go off about how they're just happy people are listing to their music.

The ones who complain the most are the ones who are greedy. I'm not saying that this makes music theft right, but real musicians can see that pirating music can benefit them, and if they see this benefit, they will see their not losing anything.

No

[2nd Post!]

Are you saying that Mac zealots are saying that Apple invented the gift certificate and the GUI?

Actually, a correction. Apple did happen to market and mass produce the first consumer computer with a GUI, first with the Apple Lisa and then with the Apple Macintosh. The prior art before those two computers was the Star, I do believe, out of Xerox Parc, but which was a research project and not actually a product for sale.

What about quality control?

[queen of everything]

Back in the day, before Napster died, you would have to download 3 versions of the same song before you got one that was encoded well and/or a complete song. If you get 15 downloads, what happens when you get a bad mp3? What if its a live version instead of the studio version? If its still a music swapping service, all these are possibilities. I won't pay almost $1 for half a song.

Re:What about quality control?

[Rude Turnip]

It's not a P2P program. It's an online store where you download songs from their servers.

Re:What about quality control?

[Triped]

You'll be downloading from Napster servers. The old Napster relied on other users to upload a good version of a song; you won't have to worry about that anymore.

Re:What about quality control?

[/dev/trash]

The new Napster is not a file swapping service.

Re:What about quality control?

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't that like someone buying out BMW to use thier brandname to make trains?

Re:What about quality control?

[Anonymous Coward]

Should be modded (-1, troll) instead of funny. According to the definition of troll anyways.

Wasting time for stupid 2 minute rule.... LALALLALALAAALA

Just Give Napster a Chance

[drew0967]

I was one of the first to use Napster (and Audiogalaxy). I'm going to suggest to everyone....just give it a shot; you have nothing to lose. If you don't like it, don't use it! But you've got to give it a chnace first, before running it down...

Re:Just Give Napster a Chance

[ViolentGreen]

You have to consider that a lot of people have no use for wma with DRM. I run both XP and linux and have an iPod. WMA with DRM is useless in linux and will not work with my iPod. Why should I try it?

Re:Just Give Napster a Chance

[anubi]

WMA.. another term denoting that the vendor wants to control my usage of the product after the sale.

Say, the tables were turned. I kept trying to push a new form of electronic money payment onto the business. With my new payment model, I can still control how he's allowed to use the cash I paid him - after the transaction! I could restrict him on how and where the money could be spent. If I didn't want him to buy anything from China, I could technologically enforce that and any transaction he tried to engage in using the money I paid him would then fail.

Would any business accept my "electronic payment" as money?

Then why do they expect me to accept this DRM ware?

Music

[Anonymous Coward]

Top Selling

And in other news

[trp642]

Amazon.com is awarded the patent for pre-paid cards for services and products....

Oh ....I thought it said pre-GAYED cards ....

[Anonymous Coward]

being the steve 'rim' jobs way and all.....

10 years from now on Slashdot ...

[stinkyfingers]

when iTunes joins the Newton in it's rightful place in history ...

"Yeah, but Napster stole the idea from Apple!"

If you can allias and have multiple cards

[phreaqhopp]

I am aliasing my address for every credit card I have. That is seven. Wow a whole 35 songs for free yipee!!!

I am all for losslessrecording

Duh, me.

[slappyjack]

I realise that the "inventory" isnt really physical stuff, but distributing the digital tracks still will cost the company SOMETHING in distribution and paying to distribute the song in the forst place.

Other napster TEST sites that are up

[phreaqhopp]

Here are some napster test sites that are up. count down clock http://webferret.search.com/click?wf,napster.com,1 ,napstercat.com,0.05,kanoodle http://store.napster.com/index.cfm Test http://store.napster.com/basket.cfm?refurl=http:// shop.napster.com/

They already have...

[bottlerocket]

Actually Napster has teamed up with some companies to produce Napster-branded MP3 players. You can read some details here. I think this was reported on Slashdot recently, too.

Really one thing

[SuperKendall]

The concept that you can trust the user and they own the songs (which of course the all-mp3 service did before) combined with convincing major labels that the same was true!

The thing that makes the Apple Store "insanely great" if you will, is that it took the best features of everything else that was around and combined them into the best music store there is, or will be for some time by the looks of things. I've bought a lot of things there now, and even started buying whole CD's which I never thought I would do.

Being pedantic - priceless!

[Ohreally_factor]

Apparently, the Beatles refuse to release their music to any legal download service at this time.

The Who is on iTMS, but I didn't see "Greatest Hits"

War wasn't on iTunes, but they could be on another service, for all I know.

Didnt Apple Patent this?

[isoga]

Well, an allowance feature anyway. Wonder how broad their patent is? (No I cant be bothered to look it up)

http://www.google.com/search?q=apple+itunes+allowa nce+patent

How I define "up"

[yerricde]

It's still not up to the point where IT departments are hiring programmers with shiny BS(CS) degrees in my hometown. (Family issues prevent me from moving from Fort Wayne, Indiana.) Stock prices may be up, but the economy won't be up until unemployment falls.

Parlez-vous legalais?

[yerricde]

It's common to find somewhat archaic-sounding language (in this case "certain" used as a pronoun) in legal documents.

Re:Parlez-vous legalais?

[Graff]

It's common to find somewhat archaic-sounding language (in this case "certain" used as a pronoun) in legal documents.

I understand the use given in your link:

Certain of the products are faulty.

However this use just seems to be wrong:

certain of your registration information

Certain what of your registration information? It really should be more explicit. I believe that they meant:

certain parts of your registration information

They probably just didn't check it thoroughly enough, but it still looks unprofessional and any mistakes in a legal agreement can cause big problems when that agreement is used in a court case.

Re:Parlez-vous legalais?

[yerricde]

I believe that they meant: certain parts of your registration information

I'm guessing that "certain of" a mass noun means "certain parts of" the mass noun, and an entry in Webster's supports it (although the entry claims that "certain of" is obsolete): "2. A certain number or quantity. [Obs.] --Chaucer." Your claim is only that "certain of" is restricted to count nouns.

Re:Parlez-vous legalais?

[Anonymous Coward]

Suggesting a license can be thrown out in court because of bad wording are we?

Darl... is that you?

Ad hominem...bad argument, check.

[Thinkit3]

And remember, this is the same message, so all I'm saying is that the message contains both ad hominem and a poor argument.

Re:Ad hominem...bad argument, check.

[dasmegabyte]

ad hominem ... you sayin' I'm gay?

Pre-Paid Cards were in the plan long before Roxio

[Anonymous Coward]

I worked on the system to handle payments and to slice and dice the pre-Roxio/Napster offering... pre-paid cards were in the works a year or more before Napster was bought by Roxio. There was great debate about how to activate cards from major retail outlets at the register... mostly this part of the offering hadn't been implemented when Napster shut down in 2002. Also look for ACH Payments which lets anyone with a checkbook pay... that was another hot item that was intended to role into the offering shortly after its intended 2002 launch.... I'm pretty much most of the original system has been replaced with pressplay.

Clear Text Passwords

[brj]

I avoid any company stupid enough to send my password back to me in clear text over email. I added Napster to by list of stupid companies this afternoon.

Not Howie Long

[Anonymous Coward]

Just letting you know that it's not Howie Long who does those ads -- it's Terry Bradshaw.

Howie Long does the Radio Shack ads with Teri Hatcher.

Probably some sort of crypto

[yerricde]

You can have the algorithm. You can't have the key that Roxio uses with the algorithm to turn it into a valid card number.

Re: Priceless

[sfm]

Hmmmm, I thought the lawsuits were all aimed at people providing the downloaded materials, not the individual doing the downloading.

Pepsi Promotion

[sbszine]

iTunes is lacking in a brick-and-mortar placement.

Aren't they giving away 100 million downloads as part of a Pepsi promotion? Sounds like bricks-and-mortar placement to me.

Please MOD parent up.

[tjstork]

Do you know of any sites that do the same for short stories?