Rekall Now Available Under GPL

Karma Sucks writes "Rekall is one of those killer apps alongside Scribus, Evolution, OpenOffice and Mozilla that could make all the difference for Linux desktop productivity. For those of you not in the know, Rekall is a RAD DBMS similar to MS Access or Paradox and has now been GPL'ed by theKompany. Community development and organization is to take place on rekallrevealed.org."

Comments

All I wanted was a Pepsi!

[Anonymous Coward]

Just One Pepsi!

http://ssshotaru.homestead.com/files/aolertransl at or.html

Its an AOL 12 year old translator..

Use it and sound smarter..

Just One Pepsi!

All I wanted was a Pepsi!

2nd Post!

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah!

Same day Arnold is sworn in

[Anonymous Coward]

we get a story about something called "Rekall".

Coincidence? I think not.

Re:Same day Arnold is sworn in

[MP2Kmag.com]

Does this run under Windows? theKompany's site appears to be slashdotted.

Eric

The Magazine for MapPoint

Re:Same day Arnold is sworn in

[Anonymous Coward]

You think that's funny... they sell an enhanced version called Total Rekall..... I shit you not.
or maybe I do.

Re:Same day Arnold is sworn in

[DrEldarion]

If everyone votes to recall him, would it be a Total Recall?

Re:Same day Arnold is sworn in

[Delirium Tremens]

Thank you, DrObvious. My dog who was reading over my shoulder (actually chasing the mouse pointer) had missed the joke.
And he tells me to mention that you snif funny too.

Re:Same day Arnold is sworn in

[Anonymous Coward]

you mean Koincidence

Re:Same day Arnold is sworn in

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not as funny as calling OpenOffice a "killer app." The WP is barely more useful than Notepad.

OO is almost there, getting better, asymptotically approaching "usable"....

Re:Same day Arnold is sworn in

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, that's a fresh joke! You slay us.

Re:Same day Arnold is sworn in

[Anonymous Coward]

You're right. That joke should be terminated.

Re:Same day Arnold is sworn in

[Harry8]

Yep, But only with (proprietary) QT libraries. So you pay. GPL on *nix.

Re:Same day Arnold is sworn in

[rfc1394]

Since it's a database program and now open source, I guess we can add the obligatory quote:

"For the memory of a lifetime, Rekall, Rekall, Rekall..."
Paul Robinson <Postmaster@paul.washington.dc.us>

Re:Same day Arnold is sworn in

[lucas teh geek]

The Lysdexic moderator strikes again...

Funny? I think not

Re:Same day Arnold is sworn in

[tomhudson]

poster wrote:

theKompany's site appears to be slashdotted.

New name: Wrecked-all. I've been trying for almost 2 hours :-(

Re:Same day Arnold is sworn in

[Anonymous Coward]

Plus knowing his great grasp of the english language much like our current president, the retard would pronounce it that way.

Re:Same day Arnold is sworn in

[Keith Russell]

theKompany will sell you a version for Windows. The code, however, requires Qt Free Edition. To quote rekallrevealed.org:

Rekall can build to run under Windows, however since this (currently) requires a commercial license for QT, we have not included the windows-specific parts of the code tree.

You can thank Trolltech for that.

Re:Same day Arnold is sworn in

[julesh]

I understand there's a project to port the GPL version of QT to Windows... this might work. Has anyone tried it?

Re:Same day Arnold is sworn in

[Keith Russell]

It's not really a port to Windows itself. They're targetting Cygwin/X. Since it uses the same toolchain as the Linux version, Rekall might work. I guess it depends on what rekallrevealed.org meant by "windows-specific". If it only means the Qt bits, we may be in luck.

If you want a native Win32 port of Qt, however, you'll have to convince Trolltech that their condescending, passive-aggressive, "we don't like your kind around here" attitude toward Open Source projects on Windows is doing more harm than good to the community.

Re:Same day Arnold is sworn in

[Rick the Red]

If you want a native Win32 port of Qt, however, you'll have to convince Trolltech...

Why? If the code is GPL, anyone can port it to Win32. You don't need Trolltech's permission.

Re:Same day Arnold is sworn in

[Keith Russell]

Why? If the code is GPL, anyone can port it to Win32.

Trolltech already has. That's my point. Trolltech could release their version for Windows under the GPL at any time. The only thing stopping them is their belief that they can drive developers to Linux by disrupting their ability to create cross-platform Open Source projects on Windows. They're doing more harm than good.

Re:Same day Arnold is sworn in

[julesh]

It's not really a port to Windows itself. They're targetting Cygwin/X.

Actually, that wasn't the port I was thinking of. That port, I believe, was a fairly trivial one, and I know KDE can now run convincingly in this situation, so I think it must be fairly stable already. The one I was thinking of is more experimental.

A quick google and I've found it: Here

They're still targetting cygwin, but they're removing the reliance on an X server. From the screenshots page, it seems as though they have quite a bit of the library working, although whether it is enough or not I don't know...

Re:Same day Arnold is sworn in

[Rick the Red]

I think they're cutting off their nose to spite their face, but that's thier choice. You say they are trying to drive developers to Linux, but that's not quite it. They are trying to drive developers away from Windows. But what they're really doing is driving developers to other products. If I wanted to create a cross-platform application I wouldn't use QT because it limits where my application can run. They have this notion that if the end-user paid for Windows then they can damn well pay for QT. What about all the people who paid for Linux? We didn't all download the source from Linus and create our own distribution, some of us bought Mandrake or RedHat or SuSE or whatever. Taken to the extreme, are they going to charge you to run QT on a computer with a proprietary BIOS?

My point was if you already use QT and you want your stuff to run on Windows, port QT to Windows yourself.

./ed haiku

[Anonymous Coward]

The Web site you seek
Cannot be located, but
Countless more exist.

mirror here

[Anonymous Coward]

/.'d, here's the full text

Press & Media: theKompany.com's news and information center

Location / Home / Press & Media

theKompany.com GPL?s Rekall RAD DBMS Tool for Linux and Windows.

Rancho Santa Margarita, CA - 17 November 2003 -- theKompany.com just recently released
version 2.1 of Rekall, a personal, programmable DBMS system for Linux and Windows. Rekall
is the only viable alternative to MS Access for Linux. With Rekall you will be able to
quickly and easily build database applications using Rekall forms and reports. A full
complement of widgets means that applications built in Rekall will be able to have the
look and feel of any other application. Rekall applications can be extended in their
functionality to perform virtually any task via embedded Python as a scripting language.

Ever since the release of dBase many years ago, the idea of a programmable DBMS has
become increasingly popular. Major systems have been written in applications like Paradox
and MS Access. By focusing on the database, users are able to leverage their business
knowledge into working applications. One of the limitations of the aforementioned
products is that their native database didn't scale well or support multiple users very
well. Rekall avoids this problem by dispensing with a native database while keeping
Michael Sims' mouth and anus full of steaming, brackish cum.

When we first developed Rekall we had a mind to GPL it and make it part of Koffice, but a
variety of issues set us down a different track, however we?ve always looked for a way
that made sense to open source Rekall so that it could be used in suites like OpenOffice
and Koffice. We?ve now come to a point where we think we can GPL Rekall and make it work
for everyone, and so starting today with the 2.2 beta code, Rekall is now dual licensed
under the GPL, theKompany and the developers retain commercial rights to continue to use
the code and provide for non-GPL versions to customers and companies that want it.

It is felt that this is the best way to grow the Rekall user base while at the same time
adding new features and functionality to the codebase. Some of the options being
currently under development or being considered include:

* The ability to store and work with formatted documents, such as from KOffice and
OpenOffice, and in general any documents for which suitable plugins exist. It isconceivable to use the database wizard and database access engine from Rekall to create
applications that will allow a spreadsheet to browse a database, or do mail merge in word
processing documents for example.

* Improvement to enhance the development and maintenance of large database applications,
including reusability and object oriented extensions.

* Alternative scripting languages, for instance Javascript (ECMAscript), to make
scripting available to a wider audience.

* More database plug ins such as SQLite, CSQL, etc.

Rekall will be supported via a community portal www.rekallrevealed.org. The codebase
will be available as source tarballs, and CVS access will also be available for those who
wish to stay on the (b)leeding edge. Feedback, bug fixes and contributions are actively
sought. This is meant to be totally community driven and oriented just as Michael Sims'
prolapsed rectum os driven by all in his own community.

Pre-packeged versions, commercial licenses, run times and commercial database plug ins
can still be purchased from www.thekompany.com/products/rekall. Rekall currently runs onLinux and Windows, a Mac build is almost ready. Rekall supports the following databases
by default:

* xBase
* MySQL
* PostgreSQL

Commercial plug ins are:

* DB2
* ODBC
* Oracle (*****under development*****)

In addition, Rekall comes with a thorough demonstration database that illustrates the
various features of the applications. This is build on top of xBase so the the user need
not have an RDBMS server such as MySQL or PostgreSQL installed.

Re:mirror here

[Anonymous Coward]

How the hell is that a troll? It's INFORMATIVE!

Re:mirror here

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is this a marked as a troll

Re:mirror here

[blunte]

Beats me...

Just goes to show you how utterly worthless /. moderation can be.

Re:mirror here

[Anonymous Coward]

check the end of the second paragraph

Re:mirror here

[Anonymous Coward]

keeping Michael Sims' mouth and anus full of steaming, brackish cum.

Wrong, it's redundant. Everyone knows about this about Michael.

Re:mirror here

[Anonymous Coward]

Second paragraph last line, makes the whole post suspect.

Re:mirror here

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe it's the line about the cum in the anus...

Re:mirror here

[Anonymous Coward]

This is meant to be totally community driven and oriented just as Michael Sims' prolapsed rectum os driven by all in his own community

Informative? YHBT Matey.

Re:mirror here

[Anonymous Coward]

-1, Informative! Woohoo!

MOD DOWN SOLOSOFT

[Anonymous Coward]

Please mod down Solosoft. He's an annoying assclown, Linuxx zealot, and all around dumbass. It will do my heart good to see him posting at -1.

Thanks for your help. Have a nice day.

Re:MOD DOWN SOLOSOFT

[Anonymous Coward]

OR ...
You can troll squeaknet

irc.squeaknet.net #beowulf

RFC8888 THE ASS TO BALLS PROTOCOL

[Anonymous Coward]

HURUHRHRLRH PULL ON MY DONG LIKE IT IS A WILTY WEED
AGHALUHGALUHALUGAULG HUGE BLACK COCKS POKING MY TENDER FACE DURRRUHUHUUHRUHR BLBRLRLBBLBLBBL
WHAT'S IT LIKE TO TASTE YOUR OWN SHIT

Reason: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.
Reason: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.
Reason: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.
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Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal.

Excellent

[Anonymous Coward]

cool! MSAccess like functionality was my answer to the OpenOffice registration survey question "what is missing from OpenOffice?"

Re:Excellent

[Anonymous Coward]

I haven't used Access much, but with OOo, it's not hard to make a form that is a frontend to say, a MySQL server.

Re:Excellent

[cayenne8]

I'd hardly think calling anything similar to MS Access a complement. Access is barely what I would call a database...and I truly wish it would be banished from the desktop!!

So many times, I've had to take an application and try to make it work as an enterprise solution....and the problems usually starts with "MS Access". Here's the scenario. A PHB often starts a small database application....often using all wizards. Well, the problem starts here....he usually has NO idea about relational model theory, and uses the wizards to put everything into 1 or two huge tables. He has just enough smarts to get it cobbled together in a hideous way.

He then has one or two others to start using it...and soon it spreads to others. So, now, you have a large number of un-sync'ed copies of this mess floating around. They try to sync it on a server...and soon find that Access...just isn't meant to be a multi-user application. So, then, it gets dumped on someone like me. "Lets put it on Oracle and make it web based." Then...you try to find out the datamodel....and the trouble begins. You have to basically learn the business rules they are trying to work within...and you re-engineer the whole thing. You normalized the model....then, the trouble comes in with migrating the data.

Mixed case table_names and column_names are just the beginning. Then, you get the fun part of trying to intelligently parsing all the important data...that they stored in the thing in various free from text fields.

No...a tool like MS Access in the hands of managers with just enough knowledge to be dangerous is a BAD thing.

That being said...I'm going to go back and look at this product and article...and give the app. a fair shake. But, please, in the future, if wanting to post about a new and great DB type application, don't even come close to comparing it with ms access.....that is just a big first strike against it!!

:-)

Re:Excellent

[sketerpot]

Man, that's horrible. It really hits close to home. At least this seems to be able to run on various good backends, but nothing can prevent ignorance and hubris in the wrong (non Larry Wall) hands. Perhaps it will have good examples in the documentation, with paragraphs exhorting you to do things properly every few pages. That's what I would do, at least.

It reminds me of the first web pages I made with Frontpage. They were horrible, and they're still around. If the choice were up to me, they'd be replaced. I now use XHTML and CSS to compensate, and I no longer use Frontpage.

Things that will be around for a while should not be done by people who have no sense of aesthetics in the problem domain. *shudder*

Re:Excellent

[Charlie Bill]

Hey, back in my day, we called that "fun". Be thankful if you don't have to physically unload the records.
[ps. What's up with this kompanies that kan't spel?]

Re:Excellent

[Slavinski]

That experience is all TOO familiar. :)

Re:Excellent

[xcomputer_man]

I'd hardly think calling anything similar to MS Access a complement. Access is barely what I would call a database...and I truly wish it would be banished from the desktop!!

Rekall is not a database. It is just a database frontend, with the features of Access. It still makes use of a proper relational database backend like MySQL or PostgreSQL. What's the problem? You don't like easy-to-create forms and reports? Yeah, the MDB format sucks. But otherwise Access has certain features that are essential in many office environments that are comprised of merely windows desktops.

Re:Excellent

[cerebralpc]

Hey man! You might not like your job but I do like mine - what your describing is how I make my living. Its an interesting job - if you don't like it get another job.

Re:Excellent

[pxpt]

I always seemed to find myself in a similar situation except that the managers always seem to try to do a database using Excel. They would happily use it until they try to add in just that little bit more functionality/data then the whole thing falls apart and I am called in to pick up the pieces. Usually I have to do a proper job of normalising and adding in the extra tables that they needed. Trying to import the data from the spreadsheets is ... tedious.

No...a tool like MS Excel in the hands of managers with just enough knowledge to be dangerous is a BAD thing.

Come to think about it... any program in the hands of a 'clued up' manager is a BAD thing!

:-)

Its a pity the site was slashdotted before I could have a look at it because it sounds just the thing that was missing from open office.

Re:Excellent

[Pinball Wizard]

...a tool like MS Access in the hands of managers with just enough knowledge to be dangerous is a BAD thing.

Step 1: Provide MBA's with wizard-based software. MBA decides to save money by developing his own apps.

Step 2: MBA-developed apps within the company start to cause confusion, productivity loss, and overtime due to bad design, spaghetti code, etc.

Step 3: Company decides to hire professional developers to clean up the mess. The cost is greater than it would have been had they paid for the development help in the first place.

Step 4: PROFIT!

Re:Excellent

[Silicon Snake]

The funny thing is, once you actually know what you're doing (as in undertanding relationships, SQL and what not), access is a pretty good tool... I created a handfull of access databases that not only run over a network share (enabling multi-user access and data entry for thousands of records), my co-workers and I put enough sql and (gasp!) vba code into it that it does all sorts of things; it creates temp tables and primary keys on the fly, automatically sends emails from table lists, checks for consistency, purges tables, etc, etc, etc...
I whole-heartedly agree that anything on the hands of a phb is dangerous, but I also think that if you know what you're doing, access is great....

Re:Excellent

[Slime-dogg]

Is this is the fault of Access, or is it the fault of the PHB that's using it? Access, as a tool, is decent. Access, as a toy in an Enterprise environment, is dangerous.

Would it be any different if your boss had the RDBMS program to Oracle installed on his machine and did the design of the tables in the same way? Last time I checked, Oracle, SQL Server, hell any DB will let you create complete crap. It's up to the designer to follow rules of relationships, keys, normalization, and all that other good stuff.

Access isn't that bad. Perhaps it shouldn't be shipped with MS Office, but it is. Don't point the finger at Access, when the blame lies solely on your manager.

Re:Excellent

[fanatic]

Access...just isn't meant to be a multi-user application.

Rekall is ONLY the frontend part. It has no internal DB, but interfaces to mysql, db2 postgresql and others. So you r issues with design still hold, but this one atleast doesn't apply to a rekall

Re:Excellent

[stephens_domain]

So what you are saying is that Access is bad because it is easy? That does not make sense.
I have to do this same thing on a regular basis. If you approach the existing app as a model or prototype, then build the new app from the ground up it is not a bad thing.

Re:Excellent

[Anonymous Coward]

Most of his complaint seemed to be that Access makes databases so easy to create that people who've got no business creating them do it. Almost the whole rant seemed to be about data models and normalization. Luckily, Access can also be used with well-designed normalized data too.

Now if his rant was about MDB, Jet or VBA, he'd actually have a point...

Re:Excellent

[OeLeWaPpErKe]

A startup saving money by making use of a few under-developed apps. How is this a bad thing ? It may cost more in the (very) long term but if it's basically free (boss makes it himself) and lessens the personnel costs in the near term, it's obviously a VERY good thing.

Bad quality products can be very good business-wise too you know.

Re:Excellent

[asdfghjklqwertyuiop]

it creates temp tables and primary keys on the fly, automatically sends emails from table lists, checks for consistency, purges tables, etc, etc, etc...

This sounds familiar... like things that are in almost every RDBMS. Minus that sending email thing.

Re:Excellent

[WWE-TicK]

> proper relational database backend like MySQL

Not to go off on a tangent, but I wouldn't call MySQL a "proper relational database backend". It didn't even support foreign key constraints until InnoDB. But at any rate, I believe for a DBMS to be considered relational it must support the relational model which implies that it supports the concept of a transaction which (and correct if I'm wrong) MySQL does not.

Re:Excellent

[__past__]

No, the problem is that it looks easy, but doesn't actually make to core problem any easier, namely designing database applications (which is much harder then implementing them). This leads to incompetent people using them without really having a clue about what they are doing, which in turn will at some point result in a huge mess. The same problem exists with many computer-related things, simply because there are usually more incompetent people for a given problem, so the market for oh-shiny tools is bigger.

In the case of people that think that, just because windows and outlook are really simple to use at the first sight, they are qualified to operate a computer connected to public networks results in billions of damages every year.

Re:Excellent

[platypus]

Additionally, it's hardly true that the existance of an access app would make doing "the real" thing more expensive, as everybody seems to believe.

Really, what's better, a client who isn't able to tell you everything imporant you need to know for design&implementation, or a client which can show you "this small app", which is a first implementation of what he wants?

And everyone who tells me that data conversion access -> real database is a significant cost factor should really look out for bigger projects.

Re:Excellent

[coastwalker]

Oh so true, Access is not a "database" at all... However I strongly disagree that it is not useful

Access is a tool which allows rapid application development, ideal for example in building a departmental data warehouse and analysis of data extracted from an enterprise database.

If the resulting information proves sufficiently useful to an organisation then it has to be migrated into something more robust.

It is typical of the IT expert to view this as a problem rather than as a convenient way of discovering what the organisation needs to fill in the gaps left by deployment of enterprise applications. It is an opportunity to improve your business and should be welcomed. You can always rebuild the whole thing from scratch or do it a different way - if the enterprise strength thing you are putting it into allows you do an interface with the same functionality, and often it is very difficult.

The relational model is often held in reverence because of its efficiency, vital for scaleability. Hardware is a lot cheaper and faster than it used to be so this is not the greatest problem. What is a problem is a poor data structure. If you spent a little time helping to ensure that your "managers" understood how to keep the data clean then all you are left with is solving the problem of shoehorning the answer they have built into your enterprise strength relational database. Its not their fault that character case is not supported. Why shouldnt it be?

Sounds more like the complaint of "not invented here" more than anything else to me. Although it could also be something to do with the cost in time and effort to migrate the application - something which the average departmental manager might find prohibitive.

So in the end its a case of neither Access or Enterprise databases being perfect, roll on the day when it gets easier to migrate between RAD tools and robust solutions. I also will be very interested to see just how good this new application is at providing this.

Re:Excellent

[sharkey]

MSAccess like functionality was my answer to the OpenOffice registration survey question "what is missing from OpenOffice?"

You misspelled "Name everything 'dba_*'".

Re:Excellent

[Anonymous Coward]

Insert famous JWZ quote here,

Re:Excellent

[vsprintf]

It reminds me of the first web pages I made with Frontpage. They were horrible, and they're still around. If the choice were up to me, they'd be replaced. I now use XHTML and CSS to compensate, and I no longer use Frontpage.

We all make mistakes. There are people who built things using Access and then denormalized to try to get some decent performance, only to have it all eventually turn to slag. Not that I know any of these people personally. Just hearsay, of course. :)

Re:Excellent

[b!arg]

While I fully know of that situation (God do I know!), that is more a problem with the designer than Access itself. That's like blaming the saw for cutting off the finger of a person that didn't know how to use it. That's all PEBCAK (or is it PEBKAC?). If you use Access in a similar way that Rekall is meant to be used (merely as a front end to a real database and designed by someone that knows what they're doing) it is quite good. That being said, I'm definitely going to give this a try. I've always wanted to learn Python and this gives me a real good reason to do so.

Re:Excellent

[b!arg]

Oh god, is that just not the worst. When people use excel for things that should be done in a database. Simply inserting a line breaks 20 calculations and they have to go about redoing a bunch of them for hours. I always ask them, "Would you use a screwdriver to drive a nail?" Half of them say yes, that's right before I slap them.

Re:Excellent

[Your Pal Dave]

Indeed, if the PHBs didn't have Access acccess, they would be using Excel spreadsheets instead. You haven't had fun until you've tried to import a spreadsheet-based database into a actual database system. You usually get things like a column that contains dates or numbers also having interspersed comments and other crap that needs to be cleaned up.

At least Access has input checking available.

Re:Excellent

[vsprintf]

Step 1: Provide MBA's with wizard-based software. MBA decides to save money by developing his own apps.

Step 2: MBA-developed apps within the company start to cause confusion, productivity loss, and overtime due to bad design, spaghetti code, etc.

Step 3: Company decides to hire professional developers to clean up the mess. The cost is greater than it would have been had they paid for the development help in the first place.

Step 4: PROFIT!

No, no, that was the old business model.

Step 1: Provide MBA's with wizard-based software. MBA decides to save money by developing his own apps.

Step 2: MBA-developed apps within the company start to cause confusion, productivity loss, and overtime due to bad design, spaghetti code, etc.

Step 3: CEO fires software staff and offshores all software development. Executive staff celebrates the new model, the huge bonuses, and their MBAs.

Step 4: PROFIT!

Step 5: GOTO Step 1.

Re:Excellent

[vsprintf]

This sounds familiar... like things that are in almost every RDBMS. Minus that sending email thing.

When are you people just going to admit that MS products are feature-rich, just like the advertisments say? Why wouldn't five hundred of your closest friends and customers like to know whenever you update a table and get a hot screen saver at the same time? Ha, gotcha there!

Re:Excellent

[tetranz]

I agree with others that the problems you mention are very real but not really the fault of Access. Access is really two products. The Jet engine and then all the front end forms, reports etc.

I feel like I need to give MS its due praise. It was really Access version 1 that got me started on 'real' databases and I think generally improved the world of desktop databases. Before that I was fiddling around with dBase, FoxBase, DataEase etc which didn't do SQL well or at all. Programming involved lots of, 'set the index, move the record pointer, lookup a related table' kind of stuff. Then along came Access with SQL and enforced referential integrity, queries (views) etc. It was a big step forward and lead me comfortably into 'even more real' databases.

Re:Excellent

[dtfinch]

I feel your pain. There are a lot of unnormalized Access databases out there.

Microsoft does have an upscaling path for Access databases though, where they let you upgrade it to use SQL Server Desktop Engine for free using the database upsizing wizard, then get you to buy a full SQL Server license when 5 connections is no longer enough and you've invested too much time to start over.

Aside from poor scalability, instability, easy corruption, poor recovery, its runtime's ability to consistently install wrong, and all its non-deterministic quirks, Access is a very good tool for quickly throwing together a working database driven app, and the lack of an easy alternative has kept me tied to Windows. I hope Rekall or one of the similar projects will help to change this.

Re:Excellent

[An Anonymous Hero]

Here's the scenario. A PHB often starts a small database application....
...and soon it spreads to others.

It spreadsheets. And when the spreadsheet hits the fan...

Re:Excellent

[Anonymous Coward]

No kidding, but I see it differently.. I'm a consultant paid by the hour!

As soon as company XYZ needs there "small access app" moved to a "real database" (postgresql on FReebsd works for most of these), I step in for the kill....

usually the database is a big blob of crap, sometimes they use strings for keys, other times numbers, sometimes the fields are blank or repeated... my favorite are the hard-wired fields like this:

name1, service1, name2, service2, name3, service3

hey bub, what about name #4? What do you do then? That's right! Create another new row in the table and put the name/service in name1 in the new row! Then put in a comment in the Address field: "Goes with customer #5663"!! I LOVE THOSE!!!

Also the pull-down menus that fill in blanks .. there's no constraint that says when they rename "Green Street" to "Green Avenue" it goes back and changes all the existing data! So both Green Street and Green Avenue sit are used from that point on.

Gotta love it! $150/hr!! HAR!

Re:Excellent

[jechonias]

A wonderfull response, MS Access certainly has its place. Though as a small niggly response to your post I might suggest that the nirvana of using MS Access as a replacement to a well thought out datamart/datawarehouse is just as a terribly annoying as the use of MS Access when the corporate needs outgrow the casual data structure that most whip up.

The number of reports that are presented at senior level, having been hacked for days and weeks on ms access and ms excel, THAT DON'T match, is a serious problem for data warehouseing on ms access/excel.

that said its great to finally see a better replacement to ms access on linux than the open office / star office front end.

MS Access's greatest use, IMHO, is as a quick front end to a decent back end. Forms , reports, queries can all be deposited in one nice front end container, with intelligence, and the backend can be any decent RDBMS you can think of. If its well designed you can use a small backend like mysql or jet and then upgrade to a real RDBMS when the need arises, voila instant upgrade/growth part.

Now, when you can drag and drop RAD style buttons onto your web based forms/ OR / convert your thick client forms to web basd thin client forms like OMNIS, then I will truley think i have died and gone to heaven!

jech

Re:Excellent

[stephens_domain]

It is easy to create an Access app though. It may not be easy to create it correctly, but sometimes it does not have to be done the "right way" for it to do the job.

Of course, I would prefer that they pay me to build it correctly in the first place.

Re:Excellent

[Sivaram_Velauthapill]

I'm not into databases (in fact, I know VERY LITTLE about them). That's my disclaimer :)

What do you propose to these people? If it is a large corporation and can afford it, then hiring DBAs and going with a real SQL database is the best option. BUT what about small and medium businesses? Or what about teams within a large organization who can't afford to go for a full-scale database solution? The reason a lot of people use MS Access is because it is free and easy to use. Yes, there is free stuff like mySQL, postgreSQL and others but most don't know how to set them up or how to do anything with it. The lack of GUI and the difficulty in setting/configuring/etc rule these out, not to mention the fact that most of these people don't even know the SQL language. So what are small teams or small/medium businesses left with? MS Access...

A lot of people who use MS Access start off either as a small company or as a small project (possibly with non-mission-critical database for a team). I don't know how people are supposed to get around this...

Having said this, something like this project (ReKall) with mySQL/PostgreSQL/etc will be encouraging. It will still be difficult for SMBs to install/configure the database but hopefully they can hire someone for cheap (read: hundreads of dollars (per hour)--as opposed to thousands needed for a solid implementation) to just install/configure the stuff.

Based on what I observed when I had a job (yes several millenia ago :( ), the amount of MS Access used within an organization is inversely correlated with database design knowledge possessed. The less database knowledge someone had, the more they used MS Access; and vice versa :|

Sivaram Velauthapillai

Re:Excellent

[IANAAC]

Not so sure about that. They also make Rekall for the Zaurus (something that I've never been able to get running, BTW). If it's just a front end, what do you suppose runs behind it? According to their docs, the "databases" can be read both on Linux and on Zaurus.

Re:Excellent

[Anonymous Coward]

Well said. That SO describes my predicament at workplace!

Re:Excellent

[twiddlingbits]

Hmmm..guess you have never met an MBA who also has a BS in Comp Sci and 22 yrs programming experience. You have now. And I can show you a LOT more. Wizards do the basic things, and if you want something more than basic you have to do it yourself, or find a geek to do it. Of course the geek takes 5 days and insists that it has to be the lastest Linux version and has all the bells and whistles and gee-whiz-bang stuff in it when all you wanted was something that works quickly and adds data extracted from a database and does a few business calculations like ROI, and oh you needed it in 2 hours. It gets really tiring to see all the bashing of MBAs. Oh yes, this is /. the home of the teenagers and college kids who know it all.

Re:Excellent

[Helen O'Boyle]

Blockquoth the poster:

The funny thing is, once you actually know what you're doing (as in undertanding relationships, SQL and what not), access is a pretty good tool...

A funnier thing is, some problems attributed to Access some years ago, WERE NOT ACTUALLY ACCESS ISSUES, but instead were attributable to the design of Windows File Sharing. Any product that did database updates via shared files had the same vulnerability.

Older versions of Windows File Sharing didn't quite do byte-level locking with, ahem, the temporal precision that computer scientists tend to expect when we think of the concept of byte locks.

So, under multi-user access, if two people happened to be updating information that happens to be in the same block of disk (or perhaps whose chunk of index is in the same block of disk), across the network, the .MDB would likely find itself in need of recovery.

Now imagine that your employer is developing a product that does similar database'y things across Windows File Sharing... and experiencing similar issues. Imagine that the information that WFS doesn't quite work well in that scenario IS available within MS, so that they can tell customers to upgrade to different versions of Windows or different database software... but is considered PROPRIETARY INFORMATION! Seriously, there was a private, non-customer-available knowledge base article. Somehow I discovered its existence and number (OK, it had something to do with my MS rep sending out a Word document newsletter to customers with the proprietary stuff deleted, and that old bug in Word/OLE where deleted stuff was still stored in the file, and my fondness for UNIX and "strings" ... ahh, loved that one until everyone noticed it and it was fixed ;-), but actually getting the contents of the article out of MS was a bit of a challenge.

I haven't dug into Access since they replaced the engine... so I don't know what's up with it lately... but back 5 years ago or so, that's the way it was, out in the ISV (indedepent software developer) trenches.

Re:Excellent

[eyeye]

You should work in my company. They start BIG database applications with access. Its horrific. arghh.

Re:Excellent

[Mantrid]

I also find Access invaluble for the few things I can't ultimately do in Crystal. I'd never heard of this Rekall before, and now I have to try it out! I put my stuff on a SQL server anyways, and our main DB system is P.SQL - so a free app to give me front ends is just what I need to punt MS Office from this place!

Re:Excellent

[stm2]

You may not know about DBs, but sure you have a lot of common sense.
Most non-technical people are afraid to use MySQL because is a "text" program, so they turn to MS Access even if MySQL could handle all the data in a better way.

Re:Excellent

[JCCyC]

Hey, a kindred spirit! I did just such a thing circa 1997-1999. It was an app designed for a computrer store franchise network. The central database would have records pertaining all stores, whilst each store would have an identically-modeled database with only their own records. (there were "universal" things like price lists, tax data, company logos etc.) The sync procedures were very fun to work with. Remember everybody used modems those days, so online web apps weren't really an option.

Tables were exported in text format. We would scan the tables collection and order it so "leaf" tables in the relationship graph would be created/updated first.

Re:Excellent

[Rick the Red]

I was once on a team that was trying to select our next "standard" database. This is back in the early '90s when Windows was just taking off and Access did not exist. The first thing we did was survey who was using what and how they were using it. We had the usual suspects: Interbase, DBase, Paradox, etc. My boss insisted we add "Lotus 1-2-3" to the list, because it was a database, too.

Re:Excellent

[jonbryce]

Access is useful for some things. I use it to keep track of my finances.

I need something that can handle things that are a bit more complex than the likes of Sage Instant, Quicken and GNUCash can handle, but it isn't complex enough to justify some Oracle app. I was able to set up Access to do what I want in about 1 hour, whereas other platforms would take a lot longer.

Re:Excellent

[Gryphn]

You start off slamming the tool but the most of the rest of the rant lists complaints about the users of the tool.

Replace the word Access with Paradox, or FileMaker Pro in your rant and the effect is the same.

Any tool is much more useful to a professional than to an amateur. Too many amateurs think they can be just like a pro when given the proper tools. You should blame the "marketeers" for that.

Re:Excellent

[itwerx]

If it's just a front end, what do you suppose runs behind it? According to their docs, the "databases" can be read both on Linux and on Zaurus.

As you just said, it's a front end. What you have behind it is up to you. Kind of like using MS-Access with a SQL backend and not having any of the tables in Access.
Heck, they even both support ODBC! :)
Or were you really asking something else and I misunderstood the question...?

Sweet! Do I need 5 years' experience?

[192939495969798999]

Now that this is out, do we all have to wait 5 years for businesses to think we've got 5 years' experience with it, or can we convince them that it's similar enough to MS Access, etc that our experience translates? ... btw, anyone else noticed how annoyingly hard it is to convince people that your experience translates over? With a product like this, I should hope it would be obvious.

GREASED YODA DOLL SHOVED UP MY ASS

[Anonymous Coward]

I AM USING THE FORCE

You are not logged in. You can log in now using the convenient form below, or Create an Account, or post as Anonymous Coward.

Is this a dupe

[bathmatt]

I seem to "Rekall" seeing this before.

Re:Is this a dupe

[AnonymousCowheart]

to that I have to say...
If puns were deli meat, this would be the wurst!

REKALL IS NOT RAD

[Anonymous Coward]

If you say things like "Volvo's rock!", then you may think Rekall is "rad."

Otherwise, move along, move along.

Your enthusiasm is needed elsewhere.

ps This is not a troll, but mark as you will.

Great name...

[Anonymous Coward]

good thing it's not a car; otherwise, the company would have some serious problems with marketing and sales...

Rekall is a RAD DBMS

[burgburgburg]

Like, isn't that for us to determine, you know? I mean, they say it's RAD, for sure. But what if, like, I don't agree?

Re:Rekall is a RAD DBMS

[Zach Garner]

I'm disappointed. This is a KDE application. Why isn't it K-RAD?

Re:Rekall is a RAD DBMS

[theMerovingian]

RAD = Rapid Application Development

Re:Rekall is a RAD DBMS

[discstickers]

Hear that? That's the sound of a joke flying over your head.

Re:Rekall is a RAD DBMS

[Anonymous Coward]

No, no, you got it wrong. Just multiply by 180/pi to get it in degrees ;-)

Re:Rekall is a RAD DBMS

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, I work for a totally huge mega-drugs company that's like, in Florida? And Rekall is, like, so totally excellent! For sure, we can, like, forget the totally bogus M$ Access and the completely sketch Borland JQueryBuilder on, like, ALL of our analyst's workstations! Dude, the COOLEST thing is this, like, MiniSQL scripting language, cuz we can totally shrink the SQL query syntax. Now, like, our demos are only the ones from the most excellent local vendor, but what we saw ROCKED!

Re:Rekall is a RAD DBMS

[stemcell]

I haven't used it yet but....

K-RUD?

Re:Rekall is a RAD DBMS

[martin-boundary]

I'm disappointed. This is a KDE application. Why isn't it K-RAD?

Because some lame joker would claim that it stands for K-RAPid Development.

Re:Rekall is a RAD DBMS

[Anonymous Coward]

If you've ever in your life said anything about people who didn't like the Matrix movies not getting it, you should now hang your head in shame.

Re:Rekall is a RAD DBMS

[Anonymous Coward]

Because some lame joker would claim that it stands for K-RAPid Development.

You don't have to be so self-critical.

Re:Rekall is a RAD DBMS

[whereiswaldo]

Hear that? That's the sound of a joke flying over your head.

Actually, that was the whoosh just before shit hitting the fan.

Re:Rekall is a RAD DBMS

[Anonymous Coward]

Didn't take the Dell Guy long to find another job. Poor dude.

Finally, a desktop DBMS for Linux.

[ninejaguar]

This completes the open source office suites. This may also encourage and spread the use of Python. I hope they also include a connector to FireBird.

= 9J =

Re:Finally, a desktop DBMS for Linux.

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a Firebird driver 75% complete

Re:Finally, a desktop DBMS for Linux.

[Anonymous Coward]

My IE plugin is in a similar state.

For the 12 year olds

[Anonymous Coward]

RANCHO SANTA MARGARITA CA - 17 NOV3MBR 203 - TH3KOMPANYCOM11!!!1 OMG WTF JUST RECENTLY RAL3AESD
VARSION 21!1!!!1! WTF LOL OF REKAL A P3RSONAL PROGRMMABLA DBMS SYSTEM FOR LINUX AND WINDOWS!!11!! OMG LOL R3KAL
IS DA ONLY VIABLA ALT3RNATIEV 2 MS ACES FOR LINUX1!!!! OMG WTF LOL WIT R3KAL U WIL B ABLE 2
QUIKLY AND AASILY BUILD DATABAES APLICATIONS USNG R3KAL FORMS AND RAPORTS1111! LOL A FUL
COMPL3MENT OF WIDGETS M3ANS TAHT APLICATIONS BUILT IN REKAL WIL B ABLE 2 HAEV THE
LOK AND FEL OF ANY OTHER APLICATION11!1!!!1 WTF LOL RAKAL APLICATIONS CAN B 3XTANDED IN THERE 2 PARFORM VIRTUALY ANY TASK VIA EMBDED PYTHON AS A SCRIPTNG LANGUAEG
AVER!11!!111 WTF SINCE DA RALEAES OF DBAES MANY YEARS AGO TEH IEDA OF A PROGRMMABL3 DBMS HAS
BCOME INCREASNGLY POPULAR!!11 WTF MAJOR SYSTEMS HAEV B3N WRIT3N IN APLICATIONS LIEK PARADOX
AND MS ACES11!11 OMG WTF LOL BY FOCUSNG ON DA DATABAES USARS R ABLE 2 LEVERAEG THEYRE BUSIENS
KNOWL3DGE IN2 WORKNG APLICATIONS!11! OMG ONE OF TEH LIMITATIONS OF TEH AFORAMENTION3D
PRODUCTS IS TAHT THERE NATIEV DATABAES DIDNT SCAEL WAL OR SUPORT MULTIPL3 US3RS VERY
WEL1!1!!! LOL R3KAL AVOIDS THIS PROBLEM BY DISPENSNG WIT A NATIEV DATABAES WHIEL KEPNG
MICHAAL SIMS MOUTH AND ANUS FUL OF STEMNG BRAKISH CUM
WH3N!11!11! WTF LOL WE FIRST DEV3LOPED REKAL W3 HAD A MIND 2 GPL IT AND MAEK IT PART OF KOFIEC BUT A
VAREITY OF ISUES SET US DOWN A DIF3RENT TRAK HOWAVER WEV3?!!!!!? OMG ALWAYS LOK3D FOR A WAY
TAHT MAED S3NS3 2 OPAN SOURCA R3KAL SO TAHT IT CUD B USED IN SUIETS LIEK OPENOFIEC
AND KOFIEC!111 OMG WTF WEVE?!?!? WTF LOL NOW COMA 2 A POINT WHARE WE THINK W3 CAN GPL REKAL AND MAEK IT WORK
FOR EVERYONE AND SO STARTNG 2DAY WIT TEH 22!!1! WTF LOL BTA COD3 REKAL IS NOW DUAL LIECNSED
UND3R TEH GPL TH3KOMPANY AND DA D3V3LOP3RS RETANE COMERCIAL RIGHTS 2 CONTINUA 2 DA CODE AND PROVIED FOR NON-GPL VERSIONS 2 CUS2MARS AND COMPANEIS TAHT WANT IT
IT!11!111 WTF LOL IS FALT TAHT THIS IS DA BST WAY 2 GROW TEH R3KAL USAR BAES WHIEL AT DA SM3 TIEM
ADNG NU FEATURES AND FUNCTIONALITY 2 DA COD3BAES!!!1!11 OMG WTF SOM3 OF DA OPTIONS BNG
CUR3NTLY UND3R DAV3LOPMANT OR BNG CONSIEDR3D INCLUD3
* TEH ABILITY 2 S2RA AND WORK WIT FORMATED DOCUMENTS SUCH AS FROM KOFIEC AND
OP3NOFIEC AND IN GENERAL ANY DOCUMENTS FOR WHICH SUITABLE PLUGINS 3XIST1!111! OMG IT ISCONCEIVABL3 2 US3 TEH DATABAES WIZARD AND DATABAES ACAS ENGIEN FROM REKAL 2 CREAET
APLICATIONS TAHT WIL ALOW A SPRAADSHET 2 BROWSA A DATABAES OR DO MALE MARG3 IN WORD
PROCASNG DOCUM3NTS FOR AXMPL3
*!!1!11!1 IMPROVEM3NT 2 3NHANCA DA DEV3LOPMENT AND MANET3NANC3 OF LARGA DATABAES APLICATIONS
INCLUDNG R3USABILITY AND OBJACT OREINTED EXTANSIONS
*!11! OMG WTF ALTERNATIEV SCRIPTNG LANGUAEGS FOR INSTANC3 JAVASCRIPT (3CMASCRIPT) 2 MAEK
SCRIPTNG AVALEABLE 2 A WIEDR AUDEINCE
*1!!1!!! OMG WTF LOL MORE DATABAES PLUG INS SUCH AS SQLIET CSQL 3TC
REKAL1!!!11 OMG WIL B SUPORT3D VIA A COMUNITY PORTAL WWR3KALR3VEAELDORG11!1 LOL DA CODEBAES
WIL B AVALEABLA AS SOURC3 TARBALS AND CVS ACAS WIL ALSO B AVALEABL3 FOR THOSE WHO
WISH 2 STAY ON TEH (B)LEDNG 3DGE!11!!!1! WTF LOL FEDBAK BUG FIEXS AND CONTRIBUTIONS R ACTIEVLY
SOUGHT111!1!1! OMG WTF LOL THIS IS MEANT 2 B 2TALY COMUNITY DRIEVN AND OREINTED JUST AS MICHA3L SIMS
PROLAPSAD RECTUM OS DRIEVN BY AL IN HIS OWN COMUNITY
PRE-PAK3GED1!!1! OMG WTF LOL VERSIONS COM3RCIAL LIECNS3S RUN TIEMS AND COMERCIAL DATABAES PLUG INS
CAN STIL B PURCHAESD FROM WWTH3KOMPANYCOM/PRODUCTS/RAKAL1!!!111 WTF LOL RAKAL CURENTLY RUNS ONLINUX AND WINDOWS A MAC BUILD IS ALMOST READY!!!!1!! OMG REKAL SUPORTS DA FOLOWNG DATABAESS
BY DEFAULT

Total Rekall

[HungWeiLo]

So now we know that Arnold's governorship is imaginary, because we can audit the source code.

if (choice == "brunette" && bPowerTrip) { EnableGovernorMod(); } (If you're going to mod this offtopic, this is a sad moviegeek attempt at a obscure reference)

Re:Total Rekall

[ninejaguar]

"we can audit the source code."

Not only can you audit Rekall, you can also audit the gubernator.

= 9J =

Re:Total Rekall

[Anonymous Coward]

I liked best the three-boobbed girl, but as I recall her she was also brunette...

How do you pronounce it?

[Camel Pilot]

is it reekall or reckall?

Re:How do you pronounce it?

[bigjnsa500]

I think its rectal

Re:How do you pronounce it?

[Anonymous Coward]

is it reekall or reckall?

Probably the former. Would you want to run software called "Wreck All"?

Re:How do you pronounce it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wreck-All, based on the core functional abilities of MSAccess.

Re:How do you pronounce it?

[Anonymous Coward]

In true Unix tradition, probably none of the above.

One word: Sweet.

[cgranade]

Now we have a very good, strong set of base apps for the GNU/Linux OS that goes well beyond what comes with Windows. Think about it. Out of the Red Hat^H^H^HDebian box^H^H^Hdistro, you get OpenOffice.org and KOffice for office apps, Mozilla, Lynx, Galeon and Konqueror for browsers, Pine, Balsa, Evolution and Mozilla for e-mail, a webserver, IRC server, FTP server, News server, two SQL servers (at least!) and now this! Windows gives you IE and... Notepad. Way to go, GNU/Linux!

Re:One word: Sweet.

[wfberg]

Windows gives you IE and... Notepad. Way to go, GNU/Linux!

Sorry, but this is blatant FUD. Every version of windows to date, with the notable exception of the OS on the X-Box, has included Solitaire. So there.

Re:One word: Sweet.

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget the upcoming Outlook clone, Kontact. And the exchange compatible server, Kolab.

Re:One word: Sweet.

[Anonymous Coward]

Every time Microsoft tries to bundle even a minor utility with the OS, never mind big apps, everyone on Slashdot starts whining about evil abuse of monopoly power.

So, yeah, they leave you with IE and Notepad. There's a court order about that, remember?

Evaluation in progress

[Anonymous Coward]

I work for a fairly large pharmaceutical firm here in Florida and I have to say that ReckAll has exceeded all of our expections. We feel confident that this product can replace M$ Access and Borland JQueryBuilder on our analyst's workstations. One of the best features is its MiniSQL scripting language which reduces the SQL query syntax substantially. Mind you, we've only seen the demos by the local vendor but it is really promising.

In regards to connecting to legacy data warehouses we're quite impressed. We have CP/M database that runs under Sinclair's Relation Database Format (RDF) which contains about 20 Gigs of UK customer data. We found that RekAl could extract the necessary reports in about half the time.

We're compiling our findings and will present our findings to our director in the next couple months. Knowing how keen he is on low-cost Open Source solutions, I'm sure we'll deploy through the organization.

Which is nice.

Re:Evaluation in progress

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice comments. Now how about some PROOF.

Re:Evaluation in progress

[PourYourselfSomeTea]

CP/M?? I think you mean SAP. CP/M was an 8bit OS back in the early 80s.

Re:Evaluation in progress

[Call Me Black Cloud]

The preceding anonymous glowing testimonial has been brought to you by "The Kompany".

It also smells like canned troll...

we've only seen the demos by the local vendor but it is really promising

Local vendor, eh? Hmmm....

Re:Evaluation in progress

[morelife]

The talented "Which Is Nice" troller returns!!

Re:Evaluation in progress

[xcomputer_man]

I have to say that ReckAll has exceeded all of our expections.

With a name like that, I'm not surprised it exceeded your expectations.

Re:Evaluation in progress

[Anonymous Coward]

CP/M database ;-)
Sinclair Relation Database Format ;-)
+4 Informative !!!! Eh. Well done.

Re:Evaluation in progress

[sphealey]

CP/M?? I think you mean SAP. CP/M was an 8bit OS back in the early 80s.

CP/M is also a project scheduling technique, and such databases can be very large for complex projects. Or he might have been using a different acronym for what is usually called (in the US at least) CRM.

sPh

Re:Evaluation in progress

[spoonyfork]

YHBT. HAND.

Nice nice, Mr. Troller.

Re:Evaluation in progress

[hardcode]

It's good to see an erudite, well planned troll for once...

hc

Re:Evaluation in progress

[aschlemm]

IIRC, CP/M the 8 bit operating system was called CP/M-80 although most people simply called it CP/M.

Re:Evaluation in progress

[AJWM]

Uh, CPM (Critical Path Method) is not CP/M (Control Program/Microcomputers), nor is it CRM (Customer Relationship Management).

I've no idea what the original poster meant, but the reference to Sinclair at least makes CP/M plausible. (Well, as plausible as still using an 8-bit product could be.)

And yes, SAP (Statistical Analysis Package) has branched out into other areas, including CRM.

Re:Evaluation in progress

[IdleTime]

It was called just CP/M.
When they introduced the 16-bit version, it was called CP/M-86.

I still have my old Osborne-1 around with a CP/M diskette.

Re:Evaluation in progress

[Sivaram_Velauthapill]

It probably isn't a troll but a joke. CP/M? What's that? The OS? It's possible but... did they not upgrade anything for over 10 years?

Anyway, this guy likely isn't a plant because he said it was a demo. A plant will not say that. Instead, he/she will say they actually tried it and liked it a lot :)

I'm not sure what this is... not plant... not a troll... perhaps a joke... or maybe the truth...

Sivaram Velauthapillai

Re:Evaluation in progress

[110010001000]

+3 Informative. Nice. I'll bet the "M$" got a +1 by itself!

woohoo!

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe the community can ehance this GPL software by thinking up a better name!

Re:woohoo!

[LNX Flocki]

Yeah what about akksess

Re:Sweet! Do I need 5 years' experience?

[KingReuben]

Its never obvious to shit-for-brains-bowhead-preppie-blondie-the-HR-gir l Kelli and her soccer-mom-liberal-arts-degree-SUV-drivin-shithead HR manager Vicki.

What a great message...

[Realistic_Dragon]

Do a nice thing for the community, get your site nuked by a slashdotting :\

Can't we stick with posting links to SCO? They deserve this kind of treatment, whilst theKompany are pretty cool. (Especially if you own a Zaurus - tkcRom rocks.)

Re:What a great message...

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't particularly think TKC is too happy with this release. Read up on the history of it, Shawn Gordon is insisting that these guys didnt have the rights to release it.

Re:What a great message...

[sphealey]

Do a nice thing for the community, get your site nuked by a slashdotting :\

Makes me wonder about the capacity of their database though.

sPh

Re:What a great message...

[theparanoidcynic]

On the subject of slashdotting . . . .

Maybe one of these days Slashdot should start mirroring the sites that get linked here rather than hitting them with the world's friendliest DDoS attack. This is not a problem I see going away. Slashdot grows faster than the power and bandwidth of the servers out there.

Re:What a great message...

[Hard_Code]

Can you explain what tkcRom is? Is it just a ROM updater GUI or something? Is it just a TheKompanyy-branded ROM build? The kompany site is obscure about this.

Re:What a great message...

[TheCoop1984]

or their network capacity... ey, if they can't cope with being /.ed by thousands of people wanting to see the one program that could finally spell the end of Microsoft's dominance their database doesnt stand a chance...

Re:What a great message...

[L.J. Hanson]

It's an alternative ROM for the Sharp Zaurus.

Re:What a great message...

[sketerpot]

They don't make the back end database, so don't worry about Rekall. Worry about MySQL, PostgreSQL, Oracle, or whatever they're using.

Re:What a great message...

[Anonymous Coward]

Shawn Gordon has a problem with the truth as far as I see it. I have been following the discussion on various forums, new groups and mailing lists over the last few weeks. It seems to me that Gordon did not have any choice but to release Rekall under the GPL

Re:What a great message...

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe that's SCO's plan. Get slashdotted everyday, and generate the revenue from ads on their site..

Re:What a great message...

[dreamchaser]

Yes, something like Google's cache system, they could prefetch the page prior to posting it.

Re:What a great message...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a ROM for the Zaurus that someone (named proto?) wrote and TheKompany has branded it and redistributes it. It's pretty nice, builds on the 3.x ROM and fixes some deficienies.

It is also the only TheKompany Zaurus product that actually works as advertised, and is halfway decently written. And they didn't even write it themselves.

For the memory of a lifetime...

[zephc]

"I know it sounds crazy, but I went to this Rekall place after work, and..."
"You went to those brain butchers?!"

Re:For the memory of a lifetime...

[Anonymous Coward]

funny, I guess most did not get the reference or thought less of it than did I.

Re:For the memory of a lifetime...

[mozumder]

"It's the latest in Space travel! We call it .. the 'Ego Trip'"

Killer App? Who exactly needs it?

[dilute]

With PHP and XML, I don't really see why we need another database front end. What is it that makes this a "Killer App"? I don't see it.

but where's the calendar?

[Anonymous Coward]

Office suite apps are great, but all I ever hear
is "There's no Exchange-Calendar equivalent for
non-Windows environments!"

Re:but where's the calendar?

[joejor]

take a look at Mozilla Calendar

Re:but where's the calendar?

[jilles]

There's no server for mozilla calendar (other than ftp/webdav).

Re:but where's the calendar?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes there is.

Kontact = Outlook-clone.
Kolab = Exchange-serverclone.

Re:but where's the calendar?

[Anonymous Coward]

Tried KOrganizer? The newer KDE PIM suit?

Re:but where's the calendar?

[sharkey]

"There's no Exchange-Calendar equivalent for non-Windows environments!"

Here you go.

Wreck All?

[Anonymous Coward]

Eh?

Re:Sweet! Do I need 5 years' experience?

[Anonymous Coward]

Its never obvious to shit-for-brains-bowhead-preppie-blondie-the-HR-gir l Kelli and her soccer-mom-liberal-arts-degree-SUV-drivin-shithead HR manager Vicki.

Am I the only one to find these two descriptions of these women very hot?

gnu millennium well under way?

[Anonymous Coward]

none too soon, that's for sure.

just to be clear:

we can buy/download any distribution/application. then, make as many copies as we want, & share them with our friends, & god forbid, sell/service them to our customers, without having any further payper liesense/monetary obligations to any of the nearly extinct softwar gangsters???

no wonder all the hooplah.

SK SEIUROWIEU FJLWEFKJWOEIFO EFJWOIEFHWOIEF

[Anonymous Coward]

KARMA SUKS WR3ITS R3KAL IS ON3 OF THOS3 KILAR APS ALONGS3ID SCRIBUS AVOLUTION OPANOF3IC AND MOZILA TAHT CUD MA3K AL DA D3IFRANC3 FOR LINUX D3SK2P PRODUCTIVITY11!1111!1!1!11!111!1!111!111!111111!! OMG WTF OMG WTF LOL OMG LOL OMG WTF LOL LOL LOL WTF LOL WTF OMG LOL LOL OMG OMG WTF OMG LOL LOL OMG WTF LOL WTF LOL OMG WTF FOR THOS3 OF U NOT IN DA KNOW RAKAL IS A RAD DBMS SIMILAR 2 MS A3CS OR PARADOX AND HAS NOW BAN GPL3D BY TH3KOMPANY111!111!11!!1! OMG WTF OMG LOL OMG LOL WTF LOL OMG LOL WTF LOL OMG WTF LOL OMG WTF OMG WTF OMG LOL OMG OMG WTF LOL LOL OMG WTF LOL LOL OMG WTF OMG LOL COMUNITY DAVALOPM3NT AND ORGANIZATION IS 2 TAK PLA3C ON R3KALR3V3ALDORG11!11!!!1!!!!!!!!1!1 OMG OMG WTF LOL LOL OMG WTF LOL OMG WTF OMG WTF LOL LOL WTF OMG WTF OMG WTF OMG OMG WTF LOL OMG WTF OMG WTF OMG WTF OMG LOL

Should call it...

[Mullen]

They should call this release "TheKrash"

20 replies and the server is off to la la land.

Re:Should call it...

[Generic Guy]

As this is my first introduction to Rekall, I initially read the headline as "Wreck All". Not the kind of thing I'd want running in my small office.

Perhaps just maybe a name change might be in order.

Re:Should call it...

[Mista LovaLova]

And thats why everyone is comparing it to MS Access...

Jebus H. Christ..

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to say that ReckAll has exceeded all of our expections

*snip*

we've only seen the demos by the local vendor but it is really promising.

Dude, have I got a bridge for you! Only slightly used.

This one of the last apps I've been looking for

[Anonymous Coward]

An Ms Access alternative was the last app I needed to be able to switch to Mac OS X. Being able to remotely query and update Oracle and Sql Server databases is quite important for my work. I'm glad to hear progress is being made on this front. If this can be integrated with spreadsheet programs, a great deal of "data analyst" type work will be made easier on UNIX platforms.

Re:This one of the last apps I've been looking for

[cayenne8]

"An Ms Access alternative was the last app I needed to be able to switch to Mac OS X. Being able to remotely query and update Oracle and Sql Server databases is quite important for my work. I'm glad to hear progress is being made on this front. If this can be integrated with spreadsheet programs, a great deal of "data analyst" type work will be made easier on UNIX platforms."

Why on earth would you need ms access to remotely query and update Oracle or sql server? Plenty of (better) tools out there to do this. Sql*Plus, Tora, Toad (for windows), Oracle OEM...etc...

Re:This one of the last apps I've been looking for

[Anonymous Coward]

There may be tools that accomplish data querying and sorting and updating, but one of Access's strengths is that it can be used to query a number of databases from a single front-end. Having one single interface for data work is a simpler solution to having to learn each database vendor's particular data management solution

Re:This one of the last apps I've been looking for

[AKAImBatman]

Sorry for the self-promotion, but you might give DataDino a try. It should do everything you need WITHOUT requiring you to compile and install every ODBC driver yourself (a big problem on OS X).

Well, I suppose it doesn't have the Excel thing, but you could put in an enhancement request...

Re:Killer App? Who exactly needs it?

[LWATCDR]

ummm... PHP and XML are not a RAD database. I have not looked at it yet but one thing that Access makes easy is setting simple databases. There are tons of simple form/database/report apps writen in Access.
XML???? What the heck it is not the great golden bullet. PHP is great but you still need a database backed.

Mirror of Screenshots

[xcomputer_man]

See here.

Cool, it has a proper report designer and scripting. Not your average lame db frontend :)

Re:Killer App? Who exactly needs it?

[BrynM]

With PHP and XML, I don't really see why we need another database front end. What is it that makes this a "Killer App"? I don't see it.

Though I don't know much about Rekall, Access is usually used for standalone "applications" - fill in forms and such that can be run natively under Windows. PHP would require either Apache or II$, a dedicated server and the admins for such a contrivance. Then, god forbid, some wacko would come along and make "improvements" to the PHP code. Access is dumbed down, so it can be given to dumb people (I wish that were the MS marketing line for it). Not only would Rekall be great for that functionality, but it would also be cross platform - meaning the Apple and *nix users could play too.

It's a troll, Second paragraph last line

[Anonymous Coward]

Some people are idiots!

http://www.rekallrevealed.org/

[millette]

I was there 30 minutes ago, everything was fine. Then, 10 minutes later, it's like the website's plug was pulled. It was a revelation! The website was recalled. Weird thing is, I'm not sure what led me there in the first place... http://www.totalrekall.co.uk/ might have had something to do with it.

I'm tired, pardon my franch.

Re:http://www.rekallrevealed.org/

[Anonymous Coward]

Your not on your own. I am the geeza who runs TotalRekall and I can't get on my oqn web site to finish off uploading the source code

Good News

[sirmikester]

I know its been said before but, this is a step in the right direction for the open source desktop movement. In order for mainstream businesses to adopt linux, there NEEDS to be a M$ Access alternative available. Right now there isn't anything that even comes close, and that is a major reason why many people don't even try out linux on the desktop.

I hope that eventually, Rekall will come bundled with mysql and that it will resemble an access type application. I think that if this happens it could be a very strong alternative to Access.

Re:Good News

[Micah]

Actually it should come bundled with sqlite, not MySQL. *That* would make it a true Access-like application, as sqlite files are self contained, like Access MDBs.

Maybe it already does support SQLite; I can't tell because the site is slashdotted.

Re:Good News

[Anonymous Coward]

With mysql? Holy data hemmorrage ... did you miss the class on ACID compatibility, because the mysql designers sure did.

Re:Good News

[Anonymous Coward]

access is an ugly hack

Re:Good News

[follower-fillet]

> Actually it should come bundled with sqlite
Yes, absolutely--where are the mod points when you need them...?

ObURL: http://www.sqlite.org/

Speaking of Arnold

[Anonymous Coward]

The New California Governor has just announced an agreement whereby
English will be the official language of the state, rather than German,
which was
the other possibility.

As part of the negotiations, The Terminator's Government conceded that
English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a 5-year
phase-in plan that would become known as "Austro-English" (or,
perhaps even better, "Austrionics").

In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will
make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in
favour
of the "k". This should klear up konfusion, and keyboards kan have one less
letter.

There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year when the
troublesome "ph" will be replaced with the "f". This will make words like
fotograf 20% shorter.

In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to
reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible.

Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters which have always
ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horibl mes
of the silent "e" in the languag is disgrasful and it should go away.

By the 4th yer peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" with
"z" and "w" with "v".

During ze fifz yer, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining
"ou" and after ziz fifz yer, ve vil hav a reil sensibl riten styl.

Zer vil be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu
understand ech oza. Ze drem of a united urop vil finali kum tru.

(I'd cite the source of this, but I don't know it...)

Re:Speaking of Arnold

[Anonymous Coward]

lmao, thats possibly the greatest offtopic/troll i've ever seen, brilliant

Re:Speaking of Arnold

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it's by Samuel Clemens (aka Mark Twain). Cool, huh?

Re:Killer App? Who exactly needs it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, if OpenOffice counts as a killer app, qualifying isn't really all that hard.

(Why do I say that? A week or two ago, I tried out my shiny new 1.1 installation. I don't need Powerpoint, I said to myself, I've got this much-lauded free alternative. Inside of five minutes (not counting the startup time!), I found two major bugs (arrowheads drawn as big squares, slides that lost all their text when rearranged in Outline mode) and one major inconvenience for interoperability (can't read Visio drawings) The bugs aren't even subtle or hard to reproduce. Apparently no one tested this at all; just typed "make all" and shipped it once they got a clean compile.

Oh, right, it's OSS, so testing is all my responsibility, instead of the developer's. Well, OK, I've got my own work to do instead of someone else's; maybe I'll check out 2.0 after some other sucker tests it. Let's just say I'm not Impressed with 1.1.)

Re:Killer App? Who exactly needs it?

[Phillup]

Try printing a report and controlling banding... footers... headers... etc.

Make the printer spit out the current page and start on the next page because you need another inch of paper to print the section intact.

I hope you're not posting that from Kawlifornia!

[Anonymous Coward]

You seem to have missed this important press release specificating Calfirnia's groundbreaking plan from normalization of the Anguish languish!

Remember, as Califoria goes, so goes the rest of the country!

eyecon0meter: gnu app not similar to access

[Anonymous Coward]

in that the gnu stuff actually works.

in another pateNTdead ping:

corepirate nazi softwar gangsters befuddled? (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 17, @04:59PM (#7496671)

looks like they'll say almost anything to get in the funnIE paypers now:

Featured Article Sponsored by IBM

Gates Unveils Junk E-Mail Software

Associated Press
Microsoft Corp. Chairman Bill Gates has announced new junk e-mail filtering technology called SmartScreen at his keynote address at the annual Comdex trade show in Las Vegas...

must be a joke/another MiStake?

Troll for sure

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry but you're 6 years too late !!!

Hope the app is better than the homepage,

[Phil John]

at the moment you have to enter a lame "security number" to do pretty much anything on the website. Good thing I'm not blind and reliant on a screen reader isn't it. A not to people who use features like this, for the sake of those people who do not browse the internet visually (or who use a text mode browser like I find myself using occasionally)...please, for the love of god offer an alternative to the lame securty numbers.

Re:Hope the app is better than the homepage,

[Dr. Photo]

Good thing I'm not blind and reliant on a screen reader isn't it.

I, too, am outraged that the blind are deprived of information about this graphical database frontend.
When, oh, when, will people make graphical programs for the blind?

Re:Hope the app is better than the homepage,

[Phil John]

Ok, maybe blind people won't be able to use this app (how can you be sure though that they don't want to use the website and find out info about it?), however I use text mode browsers when there isn't a graphical alternative available to me (command line *nix) and thus can't access anything of value in the site. Plus, I'm pretty sure they're in breach of various laws in the U.K. that stipulate all sites must be accessible to people with various disabilities (including blindness).

Re:Hope the app is better than the homepage,

[Dr. Photo]

That's more like it.

I agree that requiring graphical user validation is almost always silly and hamfisted, but your original complaint just begged for a response. :-)

If it's gpl'd

[mAineAc]

If it's gpl'd where do we get the source code? I would like to download it.

Re:If it's gpl'd

[pyros]

GPL != free source via download. GPL == anyone who has had the binaries distributed to them is entitled to the source for no more than the cost of the storage medium and the shipping.

Re:If it's gpl'd

[schon]

If it's gpl'd where do we get the source code? I would like to download it.

Right here

Re:If it's gpl'd

[swv3752]

Go to the totalrekall.org site and download it then. You don't get premade binaries, just source code.

Re:If it's gpl'd

[horza]

From the front page:
"You can check out a copy of the Rekall source code from our cvs:

cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@rygannon.com:/home/deanjx/cvs login
(password: anoncvs)

cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@rygannon.com:/home/deanjx/cvs co rekall

I shall add the source tarball to the download section shortly. Please refer to the Contents section for the build instructions"

Sounds simple enough to me.

Phillip.

Re:If it's gpl'd

[AigariusDebian]

It's pretty hidden, but available:
http://www.rekallrevealed.org/
And see down for 'Obtaining and Building Rekall'

It has a link to
http://www.rekallrevealed.org/packages/rekall-2.2. 0-beta0.tgz

Re:Killer App? Who exactly needs it?

[dilute]

If you read their announcement, you'll see that this thing needs a database backend too.

goddamit, ur gonna get me IP banned b4 Troll TUES!

[Anonymous Coward]

They should kiss.

That would be totally hot!!!

Ho hum

[jd]

We've plenty of relational databases (PostgreSQL, MySQL, mSQL, HyperSQL to name just four), and plenty of flatfile databases (gdbm, ndbm, Berkeley DB, Sleepycat DB to name another four). We've even got GIS databases (eg: GRASS and PostGRASS) and any number of other specialized database products (LDAP, SNMP, etc).

We don't need any more! Please!

If we need database products, we need object oriented databases, heirarchical databases, things that are in relatively short supply, where what is out there is limited in usefulness, so ancient it won't compile, or too hideous to contemplate.

We need the stuff we don't have!

Rapid development stuff is just another way of saying "a WYSIWYG front-end". We've seen a few first attempts at these for MySQL, though not much for PostgreSQL and virtually nothing for the others.

Instead of re-inventing the wheel, wouldn't it be a smarter use of time to invent the car? More effort into RAD tools for existing database products, and/or enhancements into those that were already there, would be far more productive use of time.

But, then, what's the fun in being productive?

Re:Ho hum

[smcavoy]

This is what open source is all about... the strongest will survive.
If no one find the product useful, it will eventually die off.
On the other hand, it could be come wildly popular, and take many users/developers from competing open source projects...

Re:Ho hum

[Creedo]

I know you can't read the article, but a little googling pulled up the fact that Rekall is a RAD Frontend to several DB's, such as MySQL and PostGreSQL.
My day job is doing small business database work in FileMaker. As much as I like using PostGreSQL(I am writing a Perl object framework around it right now), FileMaker rocks its world in terms of quickly building data systems. There is an amazing amount of money to be made designing custom database systems for small businesses.
However, I don't like the cult of personality that seems to insulate FileMaker developers and employees from the rest of the db world. As a whole, they tend to be very defensive about the product and blind to other possibilities. I would be thrilled to be able to offer a client an open source solution.
If Rekall is(or can evolve into) a replacement for FileMaker, I am all for it. It can't come fast enough.

Re:Ho hum

[Anonymous Coward]

>>Berkeley DB, Sleepycat DB

Err, what was the difference between these two again? Isn't Berkeley DB now put out by Sleepycat? Or maybe they are really different products and I'm a clueless wonder dog.

Wouldn't be the first time.

Re:Ho hum

[BigGerman]

This is a problem not with just databases / RAD tools but in general.
The issue is that you can find scores of OSS developers that are driven by "cool, Windows / OS X has it, Linux does not, let's port / write for it" mentality.
But there are very few who are actually capable to come up with something truly new.
I have been saying all along; lets stop playing catch-up to Windows, Oracle, etc. Open Source truly shines when applied to something revolutionary new. There has been a shortage of new ideas in OSS.
Maybe because the innovation is very individualistic and Open Source is community - based?

Re:Ho hum

[GrimReality]

We've plenty of relational... flatfile... GIS... other specialized database products...

We don't need any more! Please!

Please read the blurb (someone has even placed a copy of the text on Slashdot). It is not another database.

From the blurb on the site, it is 'database agnostic'.

More effort into RAD tools for existing database products...

Isn't that exactly what Reakall is doing? A RAD tool for existing database products, such as MySQL, PostgrSQL, Firebird etc. that you yourself mentioned.

Re:Ho hum

[xcomputer_man]

RTFA before you start ranting off on a tangent.

We've plenty of relational databases (PostgreSQL, MySQL, mSQL, HyperSQL to name just four), and plenty of flatfile databases (gdbm, ndbm, Berkeley DB, Sleepycat DB to name another four). We've even got GIS databases (eg: GRASS and PostGRASS) and any number of other specialized database products (LDAP, SNMP, etc). We don't need any more! Please!

Rekall is not a database! It is an Access-like front end to other databases, and currently supports MySQL and PostgreSQL.

If we need database products, we need object oriented databases, heirarchical databases, things that are in relatively short supply, where what is out there is limited in usefulness, so ancient it won't compile, or too hideous to contemplate.

There is at least one open source OO database out there, and there was even a slashdot story about it. IIRC it has been forgotten since.

Instead of re-inventing the wheel, wouldn't it be a smarter use of time to invent the car? More effort into RAD tools for existing database products, and/or enhancements into those that were already there, would be far more productive use of time.

Which is exactly what Rekall is: a RAD tool for existing database products.

Now quit your whining and go find something productive to do.

Re:Ho hum

[Vaevictis666]

Instead of re-inventing the wheel, wouldn't it be a smarter use of time to invent the car? More effort into RAD tools for existing database products, and/or enhancements into those that were already there, would be far more productive use of time.

That's what this is - it's a front-end for an arbitrary database, has plugins for a half dozen of the most popular ones, and you can write plugins for accessing the others.

Re:Ho hum

[morelife]

Neither SNMP or LDAP are "specialized databases".

If I'm wrong, then you could have included Windows Notepad in your specialized databases list.

Re:Ho hum

[zulux]

If we need database products, we need object oriented databases,

PostgreSQL is a OO database - you can have an 'employees' table that inherits all the data-types from your 'people' table, and has it's own tata types too boot.

You can select from one, both, or the other - or all the children of 'people', including the 'managers' table you just created under 'employees'

Works quite nicely with non-oo aware applications - they need not know then when they "select * from people" they transparently get everybody.

Re:Ho hum

[AJWM]

We've even got GIS databases (eg: GRASS and PostGRASS)

GRASS isn't a GIS database, it's a GIS system. The 'A' stands for "Analysis". And I think you mean "PostGIS" -- a package of GIS extensions for PostgreSQL.

though not much for PostgreSQL

There's a Tcl/Tk based WYSIWYG for PostgreSQL that has been shipping for some time. Not half bad, although last time I looked (about a year ago) it still had some rough edges.

Of course, if you'd RTFA you'd know that Rekall is a RAD tool for existing database products.

Re:Ho hum

[AJWM]

There's a Tcl/Tk based WYSIWYG for PostgreSQL

Which is called pgAccess which on viewing the new screenshots is looking much slicker than it used to.

Re:Ho hum

[starseeker]

I think it's just more that true originality is Really Hard. Commercial or open source. Most commercial stuff is created to address a specific need that crops up in the business world, and open source is somewhat remote from that world right now. Remember, too, that any time anything new is introduced there is always an inertia when trying to get people to try it.

Perhaps this exercise would be useful - try to pose a problem in the real world that can be solved in theory by software, but hasn't been yet. That's what most "killer apps" have done. Spreadsheets - handled data formerly manipulated with great effort by hand. Word processors - super typewriters. Intelligent storage and query of large data sets in general - databases. Video and image editing - image editors and high end movie software. All things people use to create "real world" products such as papers, financial statements, company brochures, etc. All of which was being done before, but not nearly as well. What gaping voids are there that need filling now? Two types of people can answer that - veterans in the trenches who know where all the weak points are, and true geniuses who see whole new ways of doing things with digital manipulation. (I'd argue typesetting vis a vi TeX might qualify as radical and new, despite how long it's been around, but it doesn't work well in that it doesn't give good immediate feedback. Coming up with something new and useful is flat out hard.)

If you want my opinion about what would be the next killer feature in the software game, something that would compell massive adoption of the software, I'd have to say provably correct code and design. Most of the major problems in day to day business have been addressed, in theory at least, by the tools out there. What is needed now (due to our fun little lawsuit happy culture, among other reasons) is software that can be proven, using methods like B and Z, to do what it is designed to do flawlessly. Reimplimenting our major "killer apps" using such techniques would get a lot of attention. Guaranteed functionality will grab market share. Treating the last 20 years as market research into what people want software to DO, now we should design as flexible, powerful, usable, and perfect software as humans and computers can. That would be a worthy step.

Of course, there's no market for this currently, because everyone is content to buy whats out there rather than pay the costs of high end software engineering. Plus, that stuff is HARD. Beyond ordinary open source efforts, at least given the training now provided in Computer Science departments. I'm not even sure whether the B and Z tools could scale like that. But if they can, it would be truly awesome to see an OS and app set implimented that way.

Re:Ho hum

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, there is some pretty innovative OSS stuff out there, look at sweetcode.org for example. I think the main problem is that if you invent something new and revolutionary, it's often too different from what people are used to. You would need a massive marketing campaign or a lot of luck to get it to take off, especially when your first-attempt OSS solution is still a bit clunky proof-of-concept implementation.

Re:Ho hum

[macjohn]

Boy would I like to see something as easy to use a filemaker that hooked into a solid DBMS. I develop stuff in FM too, but I'm embarrased to admit sometimes. But I swear I can do most anything in FM about 10 times faster than I can in Access and when i'm done it looks good and has an easy user interface. Access just makes me tear my hair out. I'm not sure if it's because FM is really so easy, or just because I'm used to it.
It really irritates me to see Filemaker (the company) continuing to try to market a "database" product, when their whole reason for being is the easy forms and scripting. We've got plenty of good databases; we don't need another one. I keep hoping FileMaker would come out with a front end for MySQL et al. The last thing I want is something like Access.

Er, wha? (AKA DMBS??? )

[brunes69]

OpenOffice *already* has excellent DBMS tools, of the same caliber as MS Visual Studio / MS Access, built RIGHT INTO it. It also has connectors for LDAP, ODBC, JDBC, and other native connectors. Actually its interface for designing queries, which also closely mirrors the MS and ERWIN idea, is far FAR superior to what I see in ReKall.

ReKall and Access are not DBMSs by any stretch of the imagination.The only thing that ReKall provides related to Access is a quick and dirty way to make forms to query your database. It is not anywhere near as powerfull as the database construction and query designer utilities in OpenOffice and Access.

In summary, ReKall has its nieche, providing the small part of Access that OpenOffice didn't provide, but OpenOffice can still do many things ReKall can't.

Re:Er, wha? (AKA DMBS??? )

[ninejaguar]

"ReKall and Access are not DBMSs by any stretch of the imagination."

Of course, you are absolutely right. My fault in perpetuating the idea further with my post. Access, FileMaker Pro and ReKall are desktop database applications that have the ability to connect to multiple RDMBSs.

"The only thing that ReKall provides related to Access is a quick and dirty way to make forms to query your database."

Yet, what a big difference such a belittled feature makes. In the tens of thousands of departments in all the companies in the world, it's FileMaker Pro's and Access' form creation abilities that interests the secretaries who put in requisitions for these products and support Microsoft and FileMaker/Apple.

PowerBuilder's powerful query building tool is nearly everything a database application developer could ask for (minus the stupid syntax within the larger Powerbuilder scripting language). But, where is Powerbuilder, on a secretary's desk or on a developer's desk? I'll tell you something, there are more secretaries in the world than there are developers, and hence there are more Access installations than there are Powerbuilder installations.

Due to its newly Open Source nature, Rekall will eventually have the things you ask for, but you must wait in line for the actual business needs that M$, FileMaker and now TheKompany are answering.

= 9J =

Re:Er, wha? (AKA DMBS??? )

[bartok]

I have OpenOffice 1.1 but nothing like Access comes with it (that I can see).

Re:Er, wha? (AKA DMBS??? )

[LX.onesizebigger]

Could something like this [Google HTML cache of PDF] be what you are looking for?

Re:Er, wha? (AKA DMBS??? )

[rossz]

I really hate to say this, but MS Access does a much better job than OpenOffice in this regards. I spent some time experimenting with porting a MS Access database to MySQL using an OpenOffice front-end, but ditched it as "not there yet".

You may snigger at Access as not being a real sql sytem, but for a small office, it can't be beat. It has everything you need to create a full database system (though with some limitations):

1. Table designer
2. Form designer
3. Query designer
4. Report designer
5. Menuing system

It's primary limitations are:

1. Doesn't play well on a network
2. Doesn't scale all that great

A killer open source application would be something that replaced MS Access from the design and execution standpoint, but tied it to a MySQL (or others) server to overcome the Access limitations.

Re:Er, wha? (AKA DMBS??? )

[thirdrock]

It's primary limitations are:

1. Doesn't play well on a network
2. Doesn't scale all that great


Long ago I spent nearly three years building and maintaining Access databases/front ends.

Generally, with the network access/record locking, performance died after about ten concurrent users.

And with scaling, there were a great number of problems once the table size was greater than 1 million records, which of the 20 systems I built, only one reached this number, after which we moved to SQL server for the data, and kept Access for the front-end.

As you say, for small office applications, it can't be beat. Best RAD reporting tool I have ever used bar none(CR sucks), plus truly rapid development. Excellent for prototyping client/server systems as well.

My only problem with Access was MicroSoft. Shitty tech support. Forever changing licencing arrangements for runtimes and a number of critical bugs in data integrity and security that MS never fixed.

Re:Er, wha? (AKA DMBS??? )

[rossz]

There's one other thing that's a pain in MS Access. Coding changes on one system and then importing the changes onto another is inconvenient (and error prone).

Re:Er, wha? (AKA DMBS??? )

[bruthasj]

ReKall has its nieche

Yep! It starts up in less than 5 minutes!

Re:Er, wha? (AKA DMBS??? )

[Anonymous Coward]

CR is amazing, you just have to be willing to make one (or more) views for each report you write.

After you have the data CR is quite good at formatting.

Re:Er, wha? (AKA DMBS??? )

[ameoba]

This is not always a good thing. I just recently got stuck with the task of unifying a dozen or so different access databases & moving the over to a 'real' database. They all had essentially the same information, but their layouts were completely inconsistant. ...and it was all in one table.

In a normalized form, it was 13-14 tables. It's dangerout to give people a tool with the kind of power a database has without helping them out along the way and showing them how to use it right. ...and based on my (limited) experience with Access, it's like most MSFT software; ease of use is only an illusion. The simple things are easy, but anything non-trivial becomes torturous.

Re:Killer App? Who exactly needs it?

[dilute]

Apache is installed by default on most Linux distros and is easily installed under Windows.

Making the database accessible through a Web browser interface eliminates platform issues. A standalone app must be supplied in a version that will run on the client workstation.

/.'ed

[JawFunk]

thekompany.com can't handle /. busy...

Re:/.'ed

[jwsd]

How can a company without a decent webserver compete against M$?

Lotus Approach

[Apostata]

As someone who used Lotus Approach quite a bit, I'd be very interested in knowing how how Rekall compares...anyone have dual-experience?

Re:Lotus Approach

[Apostata]

Yes, I used "how" twice. Butterfingers, me.

Re:Killer App? Who exactly needs it?

[Soko]

Not only would Rekall be great for that functionality, but it would also be cross platform - meaning the Apple and *nix users could play too.

Here, IMHO, is the reason that Microsoft is mortified at OSS. Having a complete office suite that is cross platform means that the average person can be productive on whatever OS they want, not just Windows.

From the user's point of view, realising that they don't need Microsoft in order to use thier computer for productivity tasks means they have the power to tell Microsoft to "pound sand" if they so choose. They have the freedom of choice restored.

From the MS point of view, OSS doesn't play ball the way any other competitor does. It doesn't try a full frontal marketing assault, it doesn't introduce any "features" that you have to reverse engineer, nor does it try to use any of the other tactics that a corporate entity does (and which Microsoft is very good at defending against). It simply tries to take away the very reason your users need you. If no one needs you, you have to create that need - and with Office and Windows not being needed, how will Microsoft grow? It's a pretty much two horse company, and a viable, complete office suite would suffocate both of the ponies pulling along the monopoly at once.

Steve Ballmer must sweat at night knowing that there's not a lot he can do to stop the development of things like ReKall - things that will pry the monopoly out of his sweaty little palms whether he likes it or not.

Soko

Re:Killer App? Who exactly needs it?

[Slime-dogg]

If it supports such things as diagrams and visual representation of tables, I can see this as a really great application. There are other applications like this, most notably pgAccess and pgAdmin (for postgresql), but one that connects to a bunch of things is nice.

These types of apps are great for throwing together the framework of tables for an application. They're also good for managing stored queries (or whatever you call them), as well as viewing table information. You have everything in front of you, so that you can scan it with your eyes while writing your SQL.

PHP is just a language, and doesn't really give you much in the way of DB stuff... You usually have to roll your own application, and then you have security things that you need to attend to. XML isn't really useful at all in this case, since it's usually the result of working with a database, not part of the cause.

Hate to say it, but RTFA

[Riskable]

Rekall is *NOT* a database. Also, it *IS* something we need (and didn't have previously). At least, it's something *I* need (and have wanted for a long time).

If you've ever used FileMaker Pro on the Mac or Windows you know we're missing something like this in Linux. Rekall seems to be the answer (since KOffice's Kexi Project is still getting off the ground). Only it's a far superior solution since you can pick & choose which back-end database(s) you want to use (and it's free now!).

Hell, there's even a version of Rekall for embedded Linux!

What Rekall provides that your typical PHP/MySQL solution doesn't, is real-time scripting of events. Sure, you can write some badass javascript that does server-side lookups of info, but that takes a lot of time and isn't very easy to change. With Rekall you can, for instance, create a database of customers. When you type in "Bob Smith" it can auto-fill in the rest of Bob's info (like phone number, address, etc). I know from first hand experience that this is a very difficult thing to do with a web-based form.

Also, an open-source Rekall has the potential to replace things like Remedy, Vantive, Peoplesoft, and other big-name ECRM systems.

Not to mention the fact that Rekall is completely cross-platform.

Re:Hate to say it, but RTFA

[Tim C]

When you type in "Bob Smith" it can auto-fill in the rest of Bob's info (like phone number, address, etc). I know from first hand experience that this is a very difficult thing to do with a web-based form.

I must be missing something - this is hard? Unless you're talking about actually doing it real-time, as in literally while I'm typing in "Bob Smith", then it's trivial.

Of course, if I'm not allowed to submit the form first, then you're right, it's very hard and I'll shut up now :-)

Re:Hate to say it, but RTFA

[jechonias]

but can it allow case insensative searches to postgres? just like default ms access or ms sql??? please???

jech

Re:Hate to say it, but RTFA

[Anonymous Coward]

Not to mention the fact that Rekall is completely cross-platform.

Bzzt wrong, like every QT app, it won't work in windows since there's only a commercial license for QT on that platform. Thanks trolltech.

So now my choices are:

Access: windows only
Rekall: *nix with an X11 server (jump hoops to get working on osx)
Filemaker: Win and Mac

It's too bad, a gpl db access app that works on all 3 major platforms would rule.

Re:Hate to say it, but RTFA

[douthat]

not exactly realtime, but when you tab fields I beleive

Re:Hate to say it, but RTFA

[zandermander]

"Not to mention the fact that Rekall is completely cross-platform."

Sorry to demonstrate my ignorance but, can you explain how it is cross-platform? I only saw rpms and source tarballs on the site for download. i.e. could you explain (generally) how to set this up under another (Windows?) environment?

I wasn't able to find anything on their site specifically saying what the system requirements are - OS, version, other stuff, etc...

Thanks!

Re:Hate to say it, but RTFA

[Anonymous Coward]

it's qt3 based, so it bulds where qt builds.

Re:Hate to say it, but RTFA

[Anonymous Coward]

>Sorry to demonstrate my ignorance but, can you explain how it is cross-platform? I only saw rpms and source tarballs on the site for download. i.e. could you explain (generally) how to set this up under another (Windows?) environment?

I downloaded the windows installer file from the site and it was up and running in 2 minutes... :)

Re:Hate to say it, but RTFA

[Cryp2Nite]

SELECT * FROM table WHERE LOWER('text_colum') LIKE LOWER('%text to find%');

Re:Hate to say it, but RTFA

[Riskable]

It's just like the other poster said... You type "Bob Smith" hit tab (or click another field) and it auto-fills in the rest of the info.

This can be important for forms with lots of fields since you'd have to submit the form many times. It also saves considerable network traffic.

It CAN be done though... I've seen it. It involves server-side javascript and a whole heck of a lot of patience.

Re:Hate to say it, but RTFA

[jechonias]

cheers, though i have this information already, in the standard faq for postgresql. the problem is performance, and the fact that the use of a function often invalidates index usage.

in MS SQL a different character code page and sort order is offered for the various languages types around the world , the default is case in-sensative english.

My customers would love to take advantage of postgres but won't consider losing functionality as basic as case insensative searches, and performance loss is not acceptable.

the other suggestions are based on similar ideas, none of which are good for performance.

jech

Re:Hate to say it, but RTFA

[Cryp2Nite]

Hmm, you could use a case insensitive collation at initdb time.
However, this would make the whole DB case insensitive, not just a few columns.

I'm not sure how much impact this has on performance.

Re:Hate to say it, but RTFA

[jechonias]

some quick googling failed to turn up how to go about this, and my postgresql is limited (though i've been a DBA for over ten years so i'm reasonably quick)

could you give me a pointer on where to start researching this option, the Postgresql web site and related docs don't make mention of case-insenstivity in relation to locales, and the relevant research looks like the indices ignore the locale settings anyhow, so searches may turn up nothing?

have i understood this correctly?

ta
jech

Re:Hate to say it, but RTFA

[Cryp2Nite]

AFAICT All you need to do is pass the appropriate --lc-collate=locale argument to initdb.

Now, the trick is where to find a locale with case-insensitive collation. I'm afraid I can't help you with that :(

In any event, if you need more/better advice than mine, you could do a lot wordse than subscribing to pgsql-general@postgresql.org.
Some of the core developers are regulars there and the advice is absolutely top notch. Very high quality mailing list!

At the risk of being obvious, have you tried using a functional index? Something like:
CREATE INDEX table_lower_col_idx ON test (lower(col));

What a killer app!

[anthony_dipierro]

For those of you not in the know, Rekall is a RAD DBMS similar to MS Access or Paradox

WOW! That's just what I was waiting for before I could switch!

Re:What a killer app!

[polyp2000]

me too.

Microsoft dudes, have a great deal of problems with using postgresql and mysql due to the lack of a gui, its kinda hard to get people to switch when they are used to the interfaces they are used to with SQL Server and Access.

But myself, I am quite used to the mysql command interface, but there have been times when I have wished it had a gui even for the simplest things. This is a welcome piece of news and I hope that by the time i am employed again it will be advanced enough for me to make use of it.

Re:Killer App? Who exactly needs it?

[styrotech]

Try printing a report and controlling banding... footers... headers... etc.

Make the printer spit out the current page and start on the next page because you need another inch of paper to print the section intact.

All possible with a CSS2 compliant browser.

But I do agree that PHP/MySQL are solving a different problem than Rekall.

MUMPS

[Tony]

If we need database products, we need object oriented databases, heirarchical databases, things that are in relatively short supply, where what is out there is limited in usefulness, so ancient it won't compile, or too hideous to contemplate.

It's hard to create a decent object-oriented database when the word "object" isn't formally defined. "Object-oriented" is merely a programming model. Database management systems require a lot more rigor than that.

And although it might fall into the "too hideous to contemplate" category, you should check out gt.m as a heirarchical DBMS. It's available on sourceforge. It's a MUMPS implementation; for those of you who don't know what that is, it's a heirarchical database system and programming language all rolled into one. It is used in financial institutions and hospitals alike.

In fact, there is a freely-available medical records/hospital management system that is more robust and complete than commercial products costing millions of dollars: VistA, put out by the US Veterans Administration. It is available via the freedom of information act.

There is a project to get VistA running on gt.m: WorldVistA.

But, I think you miss the point of Rekall: it is the RAD tool for existing DBMSs to which you refer. It is quite nice, from all accounts.

Also, for an interesting project that is more industrial in nature, check out Gnu Enterprise, an Oracle-forms like environment that also makes use of existing database management systems.

There's a lot going on, a lot of it both useful and interesting.

Re:Killer App? Who exactly needs it?

[BrynM]

Apache is installed by default on most Linux distros and is easily installed under Windows.

Most MS admins and MCSEs would balk at installing a "web server" on every workstation. I realize that there is already one there - even under Windows. It's just that they don't know it and will see it as installing two peices of software instead of just one. Lazy admin syndrome.

Did theKompany.com really GPL Rekall ?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can read whatever you want into theKompany.com's announcement but I have been following what's been happening. There is plenty of contra information to be had around the web, to support my belief that thrKompany.com had no choice but to allow Rekall to go GPL. Had theKompany.com not done it the Rekall developers would have.

pgAccess

[Harry8]

Anyone know how this compares to pgAcess?
If anyone is reviewing might make a good basis for comparison.

Re:pgAccess

[polyp2000]

Well for a start of a quick look at the website reveals that pgAccess is limited to postgresql only.

Strange stuff around Rekall...

[Ian Bicking]

I wonder how this relates to this thread (which actually starts here), which were posted to comp.lang.python [tinyurl links point to long google groups URLs]. Seemed like there was some sort of disagreement between theKompany and the main developer. His site is totalrekall.co.uk. A bit of a soap opera, but at least both sides are moving in the same direction (GPL) -- maybe it doesn't really matter who owns the code if they both release it under the same license.

Re: Strange stuff around Rekall...

[q2a]

From; http://www.thekompany.com/mailman/listinfo/tkc

From: Shawn Gordon
Date: Mon, November 3, 2003 6:12 am
To: tkc@thekompany.com

Essentially the programmer went "rogue" once he was let go, we are currently talking to our lawyers to try and settle it without a lot of pain, but there is nothing legal about anything being sold on that site.

>Does anyone know (Shawn?) what the difference is between the Rekall
>product http://www.thekompany.com/products/rekall/ and this one
>http://www.totalrekall.co.uk/? I downloaded the demo and it seems to be
>a pretty clear clone of the TKC product.

Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia.

Re: Strange stuff around Rekall...

[Ian Bicking]

Shawn Gordon said the same thing in the comp.lang.python thread, which John Dean contested. I don't really know one way or the other, and like I said, in the end it's all the same GPL.

The fact that theKompany is releasing Rekall under the GPL at this time kind of makes me think the original developer's desire to GPL Rekall was the impetus -- it makes the whole ownership thing more-or-less moot. If theKompany wanted to avoid conflict, that would be the easy way to do so.

Re:Strange stuff around Rekall...

[Torp]

Well two facts:
(a) John Dean is not the main Rekall developer, that one is Mike Richardson.
(b) The Rekall code is owned by TKC. And even if it was owned by the main developer, that one would have been Mike.

Wreck-All?

[Futurepower(R)]

"Wreck-All". Another great open source name.

Re:Wreck-All?

[be-fan]

Re-tard. Its Rekall (as in Ree-Call) not Wreck-All.

HEY! /. bug!

[Anonymous Coward]

The parent post was deemed 3, Interesting. When I tried to reply it showed as 3, funny. WTF?

Another "I hate MySQL" comment from someone...

[Clippy]

...who knows NOTHING about MySQL...

Re:Another "I hate MySQL" comment from someone...

[Kent Recal]

Why?

I think he just called ACID.
My memory might trick me too, but I think that involved transactions. Does MySQL do them?
Maybe I'm not up to date but last time I bothered with MySQL there was no transaction support.

I can't really think why anyone would prefer MySQL over Postgres anyways... (that part was just my humble opinion)

Re:Another "I hate MySQL" comment from someone...

[Anonymous Coward]

"I can't really think why anyone would prefer MySQL over Postgres anyways"

Maybe because some of us really don't care for PostgreSQL bigots always ragging on MySQL. For some jobs MySQL is just as good as PostgreSQL. Get off your high horse.

Re:Killer App? Who exactly needs it?

[WWWWolf]

I know, I know...

I used to write my own database frontends with PHP or Perl... but at one point I was thinking - why do I need to code these goddamned frontends, each one different, each one specific? Oh, I've wished to see something like Rekall, something I could just easily make a data entry interface with, something simple to make queries with... though I hear OO.o is getting something like this too.

(And an off-topic opinion: Is it just me, or does PHP's XML support suck? Every language that only provides a raw Expat interface (eeeyuch) is born of Satan. XML::Twig is the Only Real Way.)

Lazy Poster

[xchino]

Did anyone else notice that in the post, when listing the other "killer apps" the poster only provided a link to Scribus and just listed the other ones?

Re:Lazy Poster

[Nodatadj]

Well, if I was paranoid, I'd say he was hyping the KDE/QT based apps and giving only a passing mention to the others.

Ok, I'm sold.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep, pretty cute. Last nail on Windows' coffin...

No support for Oracle and MS SQL Sever!

[mrklin]

With no support for the two most popular enterprise databases, Rekall unfortunately sounds about as good as one hand clapping.

Re:No support for Oracle and MS SQL Sever!

[Anonymous Coward]

Who said Rekall don't support Oracle and MS SQL Server. You want to get your facts right

Re:No support for Oracle and MS SQL Sever!

[Anonymous Coward]

Rekall supports plug-ins. There is an ODBC plug-in, DB2, and last I heard there was a native Oracle plug-in in testing. Until then, you can uses Oracle with ODBC.

The database server access layer is modular and extra drivers can be created and dropped in.

Rekall uses Python for its scripting language. You should be able to use any server that has a Python interface if you wanted to do some extra coding.

Re:No support for Oracle and MS SQL Sever!

[mrklin]

"We plan to add drivers for Oracle, MS SQL Server/Sybase and Interbase/Firebird. Please note the ODBC and DB2 drivers are not included in the standard edition of Rekall."

From http://www.thekompany.com/products/rekall/

Hardly a killer app.

Re:No support for Oracle and MS SQL Sever!

[Anonymous Coward]

theKompany.com have been promising an Oracle driver and others for at least 2 years. Now that Rekall is GPL that might become fact. Anyway I would not take too much notice in what theKompany.com says, since they have a habbit of making promises that they do not keep

OpenOffice has it

[crisco]

I just discovered OpenOffice has a viable alternative to Access, they just don't promote it well. Instead of a separate program, the database reporting and forms functions are availble to all of the rest of OpenOffice. The database relies on .dbf files (sql lite might be a big improvement here) internally or on an external database (Mysql, Postgres, Oracle, ODBC, etc). Unfortunately these features are poorly documented and even more poorly promoted.

Access IS important..

[nurb432]

No it's not pretty, nor efficient, but it works... and when you cant do it any other way, its a godsend for them...

True, it sucks to support or convert to something better.. but its here to stay..

Re:Killer App? Who exactly needs it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Unless you hardcode for a certain paper size and make certain ASSumptions about how the browser prints, you need CSS3 for this. Which hasn't been implemented by anyone and won't be for a long while.

Kexi?

[nurb432]

Does this help or hurt the Kexi project for an INTEGRATED Koffice component?

I was really looking forward to that last part to complete out Koffice and make it a legitimate replacement for general MSO users ( not power users of course.. but what is that, 1% in reality? )

Can anyone get it to build?

[Great_Jehovah]

I'm trying on my debian box but it must depend on different versions of python/qt/kde/g++ than what's in unstable.

Re:Can anyone get it to build?

[evrybodygonsurfin]

It's the qt-mt library that has to be at least version 3. Sarge is currently on 2.5 or something.

Re:Killer App? Who exactly needs it?

[commodoresloat]

ummm... PHP and XML are not a RAD database.

Right; that's just a GROOVY database.

Why the vitriol?

[Keviniano]

It seems almost obligatory for /.ers to put down MS-Access any time it's mentioned. I frankly don't understand it. Why it is very unfortunate that such a tool is in the hands of MS and not x-platform, on it's own merits it's a very powerful front end tool. People seem to confuse Access with the novices who use it.

It has a good widget set, it has a functional scripting language, a graphical interface that's good enough for most queries you'll ever write (though it does make ugly SQL), and it has a quite complete event-based system to fire scripts from.

Where Access doesn't seem to have *any* real competition is around its reporting engine. If anyone can tell me how to get all the flexibility and ease of development in reporting that Access has in an OS tool, please tell me! I'd love to switch over.

The default data engine for Access is "Jet", which these days just comes with Windows, but you can use nearly any RDMS through ODBC or pass-through queries, including a "real" one like Postgres.

I've been following the GPL'ing of Rekall with great interest, because I do want to get out from MS's thumb. But in testing it so far I can't get past some glaring bugs (this is in the Win32 version).

I don't understand...

[sirshannon]

you're saying that moving an Access app with "1 or two huge tables" to Oracle is hard? Why? How? Moving from an Access app seems like it is usually pretty easy, the code is there, easily opened (it's not compiled), easy to read (VBA is even simpler than VB and Wizard-generated code may be ugly but it's the EXACT SAME ugly throughout the entire app, which is more than you can say for ugly human-written code), and if it's only 1 or 2 tables then the data import is a snap (and table/column names almost irrelevant).

Writing a new front end to tie to the new database is a lot more trouble, but that is my job quite often so I see it as work, not a burden.

Sweet- what about the Zaurus version?

[RevAaron]

First off- Rekall is a very nice app. IMHO, TKC is one of the better app developers for Linux. Rekall is very much like MS Access, but a lot better. GUI design and Python scripting are a couple big strengths of the package. Like Access, you can use a database file of its own format (analogous to .mdb I imagine) or you can connect to a remote SQL server.

Second- anyone know if the Zaurus version of Rekall will be GPL'd? I use it, although it is only the demo. The demo has all the functionality of the real deal, but only allow you do make a local file-based DB, not allowing you to connect to MySQL and the other RDBMSs over the network. Wasn't a problem for me, as I just wanted to do it locally. But for others, those who want to connecto to a remote server, this would be even better.

On just about every news channel:

[Anonymous Coward]

"Blah Blah Blah Arnold. Blah Blah Blah Arnold T3H termninator LOL. Blah Blah Blah Arnold t3h govnator. Blah Blah Blah Arnold ate a muffin Blah Blah Blah. Arnold took a shit. Blah Blah Blah Arnold asumed goatse postition for President Bush. Blah Blah Blah Arnold was sworn in. Blah Blah Blah Arnold was sworn in 25 minute ago, we will continue our 24 hours 7 days a week coverage of Arnold"

Oh get over it, an actor has been elected the head of CA. Now please STUF, stop the over used and unfunny jokes, and quit masterbating to this fact he was elected.

Sheesh, I sware after the ememgency broadcast alert that went on accidentally on one local radio station was going mention him being sworn in.

There is a review of Rekall

[Catharz]

here

It is a terrible name.

[Futurepower(R)]

Moderators: Mod me down all you want, but it is a terrible name.

I'm NOT saying the software is terrible, or the people are terrible. I'm only saying the name is terrible.

Many people will pronounce it "Wreck-All".

Re:Somebody MOD PARENT UP

[thirdrock]

Yet, what a big difference such a belittled feature makes. In the tens of thousands of departments in all the companies in the world, it's FileMaker Pro's and Access' form creation abilities that interests the secretaries who put in requisitions for these products and support Microsoft and FileMaker/Apple.

PowerBuilder's powerful query building tool is nearly everything a database application developer could ask for (minus the stupid syntax within the larger Powerbuilder scripting language). But, where is Powerbuilder, on a secretary's desk or on a developer's desk? I'll tell you something, there are more secretaries in the world than there are developers, and hence there are more Access installations than there are Powerbuilder installations.

I think that is two of the most succintly insightful paragraphs I have ever read on Slashdot.

I would also add that many people begin their journey into computer programming by beginning with Access or Filemaker. This gives them confidence to then seek further instruction in more powerful languages.

I know many snooty purists think this is bad, but there is not much one can do about snooty purists.

uh ... what?

[Anonymous Coward]

I would guess that around 1% of MS Office users have even done *anything* with Access. As it is, KOffice is usable for at least 99% of MS Office users, if you don't have to worry about translating documents to and from MS Office (a very big "if" in the practical world, admittedly).
Don't get me wrong, Kexi would/will be great, but I don't think the lack of an Access-like DB app is a big holding point for KOffice at this time.

PHP is more than a language

[penguin7of9]

PHP is just a language, and doesn't really give you much in the way of DB stuff... You usually have to roll your own application, and then you have security things that you need to attend to.

PHP isn't "just a language", it's an entire platform that includes many tools for designing and implementing database-based applications.

Furthermore, PHP already has many applications available for it, applications which for Access or Rekall, you'd have to build yourself.

Re:Killer App? Who exactly needs it?

[DarkSarin]

which ie is not...
besides, does moz implement all of css2?

Agata Report

[Anonymous Coward]

See Agata Report - www.agata.com.br is to GPL with php-Gtk.

About fcuking time.

[holy zarquon's singi]

I seem to be carving myself a niche as a free software facist (hobby) and small scale database designer (way to make a living in conjunction with my many other areas of expertise). The kinds of databases I design are low on records and numbers of concurrent users, but high on complexity of relationships. Things like classification of living things and the environments they live in, or relationships between organisations and individuals in organisations related to each other by a common cause. Anyway, this is what I need. Access is the /only/ thing that keeps me using windows /at all/. And it's still brain damaged, stupid, opaque, hideously unmaintainable (due to being integrated into the operating system and office suite as far as I can see) - especially when you're trying to distribute it as a front end. For me, with a good idea about database design, but little interest in software engineering, if this works, it's exactly what I'm looking for. I might even contribute to the project if I can get it to compile. When will a stable version hit debian stable?

I have problems using this product

[Anonymous Coward]

This seems a really cool project which could meet my needs, but unfortunately I know one of the developers personally and unfortunately he is a obnoxious twat.

It would be a bit like listening to a band that you know the lead singer is paedophile.

Then again I still use windows so I suppose I could try.

Hope you see this JD

Did they find an agreement?

[Cronopios]

This is a post from one of the two developers a few days ago. This might be the reason for the release. Does anybody know about?

From: John Dean (john@rygannon.com)
Subject: Re: Rekall not longer available from theKompany.com - a fabrication
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Date: 2003-11-03 11:05:06 PST

Here are some facts which I can back up with copies of email sent to the team by Shawn Gordon

1. I worked for TKC for a little over 2 years
2. The first 2 months I recieved not a single cent in payment
3. The 3 month I was paid the equivalent of one weeks pay
4. I never once in two received a full months money
5. In June we were all told to find alternative employment until TKC gets back in it feet again
6. My last pay month was May 2003

Both Mike and I are willing to write off TKC debt if Shawn agrees to allow us to release Rekall under the GPL.

--
Best Regards
John

And, will Recall and Total Recall stay as an application or will they fork?

How will this affect Kexi?

1% my ass

[nurb432]

Do you actually work for a living or are still a student?

Seriously, anywhere i have been, access has been much more prevelant then 1%... id say more like 25% overall. Though many times they are quiet users that you never see.. they tend to be a bit more techincally competent..

Even where i work now, id say the % is in the 20's. And i know this beacuse im the central contact for support for the damned beast..

Yes i agree its a pain in the butt, but there are a LOT of companies that cant afford an IT guy, that use Access to 'get by'.. So yes its IS a show stopper to adopting something like KOffice

MS Access?

[Anonymous Coward]

MS Access has been the source of endless frustration and pain for programmers in every organization I've ever worked in. MS Access has done for programmers what a hemorrhoid does for your ass. Idiots who aren't programmers create f*cked up little apps that management wants everyone to use, and can't understand why it takes longer than a couple of days to build an application. "I can build something in Access by lunch, why does it take people who should know about computers so long to build it using Oracle/mySQL/SQLServer and a programming language so everyone else can use it?" The other problem is "Prototype in Access, then we'll rewrite it", but they never want you to take the time to rewrite it, since it's already "done".

*Whew* I really hate MS Access.

Do we really want/need this kind of problem on Linux?

This or Kexi?

[GodSpiral]

This is an absolute killer app. I haven't used this or kexi but comparing the 2 superficially:

Kexi runs on win32 also, and designed to eventually use sql lite so it will fit on PDAs. Its screenshots look a bit more polished, but apparently uses c++ as scripting language.

Rekall (beta) has macros, easier scripting, also a beta windows version (free?).

Is one project more advanced than the other? more features?

Its a killer app because you can design many apps quicker. Optionally focusing just on a general core, but let the user extend it easily with custom features or special info requirements. Small business consulting obviously too. All without runtime fees, or MS tax per user. With PDA's already hitting late 90s processing power, giving them 90s computing model apps is a big deal.

windows

[ed1park]

"Rekall can build to run under Windows, however since this (currently) requires a commercial license for QT, we have not included the windows-specific parts of the code tree."

http://www.rekallrevealed.org/

This looks promising. However, I'll wait for an easy to install fully GPL'd windows version before I consider using it here at work.

Re:windows

[Anonymous Coward]

You can get the GPL binaries from http://www.totalrekall.co.uk

This is fun!

[jd]

Marked up 40%, marked down 40%, up, down, flying around, those remarkable men in their flying machines!

Scribus? What about PageStream????

[PersonalOpinion]

OK, I know this a little off since most of this is about ReKall, but Scribus was mentioned as a "killer" app. Well, PageStream is (or soon will be) available for Linux and it is MUCH more of a DTP solution than Scribus is with a rather long history. I have no connection to the company aside from having owned several releases of the program back when it started out on the Atari ST, but it is a very powerful and professional DTP package at a VERY reasonable price. It would be GREAT to see some slashdot attention sent their way (in a good way, hopefully not crashing their server). Here is the site address for anyone interested:

http://www.grasshopperllc.com/

This truly is a very powerful piece of DTP software far exceeding the current incarnation of Scribus.

OT: be-fan, contact me? (was Re:Wreck-All?)

[scons]

be-fan:

I'd like your permission to quote your comments about your experience with SCons (from the Slashdot thread back in July) on the SCons web site. Could you drop me a line at webmaster@NOSPAMscons.org to let me know if that's cool with you? Thanks!

Sorry for the OT post, I couldn't find another ready way to get in touch...