Reviewers Pile On Deus Ex - Invisible War

Thanks to GameSpy for their 'Pile On!' feature, in which a multitide of their staff rate Ion Storm's Deus Ex: Invisible War, the hotly-awaited PC/Xbox FPS title whose recently released PC demo has met with much controversy. Comments rage from the mixed ("It does offer lots of great gameplay, but I can understand peoples' initial reaction to the title") through the positive ("Ion has tried to make the game more accessible, and I think it's done a fine job of doing this without harming the core DX gameplay"), to the negative related to game engine speed ("You trade 20 or more frames per second so that the rivet textures on a barrel accurately reflect the nearest light source.") Elsewhere, PlanetDeusEx has a demo walkthrough also discussing INI fixes to improve your experience, and there's another GameSpy article interviewing the developers about their 'magic moments' playing the game they created ("I had an epiphany when I wanted to destroy the coffee beans in QueeQueeg's coffee shop, but I didn't want to arouse suspicion.")

Comments

Re:I played it ... I agree it Sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

Having fanboyism for a non-tried-and-true company is just asking for dissappointment.

Deus Ex Mistakeuh

[thirty2bit]

What's bugged me for a long while now is that Warren Specter made a comment on Thief 3, one to the effect that he "doesn't get it", referring to the Thief genre. I hope that what we're seeing of DX2 (demo) doesn't indicate that he's lost his edge or has become out of touch with the scene.

I can't help but wonder how DX2 would look today if more gamers had input on the alpha and beta stages of the game. Would the "wonder wheel" / "dirty contact lens" interface have made it so far? Would localized damage have been coded in? Or is all of this due to the game being coded for the lowest common denominator (i.e. the portability to consoles)?

Re:Deus Ex Mistakeuh

[bigman2003]

After reading the Gamespy article, it seemed like they really did like the game.

Pretty much they all agreed that the graphics were a problem, and the demo game the game a poor showing, because it only scratched the surface, and the graphics are a large part of that surface.

But, in the end, most of them said they really liked the game because of its depth.

Re:Deus Ex Mistakeuh

[ziggles]

Gamers dont make good game designers. When you look at a lot of the so called "problems" with the game most of them make sense within the context of the whole game's design. It may seem silly out of context that shooting someone in the head doesn't kill them. But you shouldn't be able to kill something with one hit if you have no biomods to increase your skill with that weapon. Otherwise what's the point of having biomods at all? And if you got rid of biomods, you'd have even more people complaining that they dumbed the game down or oversimplified it (except this time they'd be right).
The interface is cool and I think it helps with game immersion, better than a rectangle at the bottom at the very least. I do think the inventory management needs work though.

I think console gamers will think the game is too PC-ish. For example, can you imagine having to aim at and pick up items with a gamepad? Sounds like a pain in the ass.

Re:Deus Ex Mistakeuh

[thirty2bit]

I don't follow Gamespy's reviews/reviewers to the T, but this article is the first I read..
http://www.gamespy.com/reviews/november03/dx2pc/in dex.shtml
..where the game, played to completion, was reviewed more thoroughly and rated four stars. Based on the reviewer's comments, it felt more deserving of less stars. It's even commented upon that the length of the game is only 15 hours compared to the 40+ of the original.

I feel the length, the already-mentioned items (odd interface, unified ammo, non-localized damage), the lack of the "Classic Deux Ex" attribute system, simplified controls... all leaves me wondering if the designers didn't really have their hearts committed to the creation process.

Re:Deus Ex Mistakeuh

[Imperial Tacohead]

The obvious solution to that is the patented DX ShakyHands (TM). Just as control with the sniper rifle was extremely difficult in the first game prior to upgrading the skill, so should it be difficult to use any weapon prior to getting biomods. A bullet to the head ought to kill, or at least put an enemy out of the picture for the near future. Rather than upping the disbelief factor by requiring you to shoot a guard four times in the head, they could have just made it harder to hit the head comparatively speaking, thus further immersing the player and avoiding the silliness that we're faced with now.

Re:Deus Ex Mistakeuh

[ziggles]

So it's more realistic to "miss" a point blank shot to the head than for it to not kill after one shot? I think it'd be more annoying to miss a shot I obviously should have made.

Re:Deus Ex Mistakeuh

[Imperial Tacohead]

You don't miss because the shot randomly goes astray, you miss because at an initial stage your character's hands shake, causing the target on the screen to shake around. You can still make a head shot at point blank range. Farther away, the head is a comparitively small target, and the shaking makes it difficult to be certain that you have a good shot.

Re:Deus Ex Mistakeuh

[Anonymous Coward]

It may seem silly out of context that shooting someone in the head doesn't kill them. But you shouldn't be able to kill something with one hit if you have no biomods to increase your skill with that weapon.

I'm sorry?

I've never held a real gun in my life, but I'm pretty sure that if I pointed a pistol into somebody's face, from two inches away, and fired it, they wouldn't be in a position to tell me not to repeat the exercise.

In Deus Ex 1, if I did that they'd die. Likewise, if I fired at them with the same pistol from a hundred yards away, and I hadn't trained with the pistol, I'd probably miss. In Invisible War, the result from both scenarios is the same - I hit them, and they're barely scratched. I realise this is a design decision, not a bug, but your attempts to justify that decision are not convincing.

Re:Deus Ex Mistakeuh

[Anonymous Coward]

People miss point-blank shots. People rarely come running at you after they've taken three bullets to the head. See the difference?

Re:Deus Ex Mistakeuh

[ziggles]

I still think that would be a very annoying solution. I want to feel like I have control over what I'm doing. If my cursor is waving around it's just going to turn me off from the game.

Re:Deus Ex Mistakeuh

[thegrommit]

If my cursor is waving around it's just going to turn me off from the game.

I'm guessing you never played Splinter Cell, or any of the Rainbow Six clones?

Re:Deus Ex Mistakeuh

[ziggles]

Played them and hated them :)

Re:Deus Ex Mistakeuh

[Doom Ihl' Varia]

With a real weapon you DON'T have total control over what you are doing. With a mouse, it is easy to keep it in one spot. You simply don't touch it. But if you use a rifle, or worse, a bow in real life you'll find it rather hard to keep on your target. Your body and hands will just naturally move. It takes a lot of practice to get over that. The "ShakkyHands" system is simply an in game representation of that effect. The better you are (skill point wise), the less you shake. Just like in real life.

Re:Deus Ex Mistakeuh

[Lightwarrior]

As the guy who asked if you played Splinter Cell or the Rainbow Six series said, these games aren't meant for you.

ShakeyHand is meant to add a simulation/rpg level to the gameplay. If you prefer Quakeisms, you won't like it.

Just as I don't like the lack of it in DX:IW.

-lw

Re:I played it ... I agree it Sucks

[MachDelta]

The dissapointing part is that Ion Storm IS tried and true! Not Ion Storm itself, but Warren Spector and his crew. Warren is known for making some of the BEST PC games ever: Dues Ex (original) Thief series System Shock 1 & 2 Wing Commander series and even several Ultima games. The man is a fucking genious when it comes to game design, but this DX2 crap has me wondering if he took a sharp blow to the head recently. That, or what kind of million dollar paycheck he sold out to in exchange for making a console game (and then porting it to the PC just for a few hundred extra sales). Thats why its so frustrating to watch :(

Re:I played it ... I agree it Sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

but this DX2 crap has me wondering if he took a sharp blow to the head recently

It could also mean that his earlier work were the titles that he really wanted to make. Now that he's made them - his genius is exhausted.

It could *also* mean that his earlier titles were all flukes and it's only sheer luck that they were that good.

I personally didn't like Thief that much because I came to it late, the graphics were terrible and I didn't like the ghosts and robots (I wanted it to be more realistic). I did think the game *design* was the inspired work of genius though.

Nice game, but like others said ... it's slow

[Anonymous Coward]

Just played the demo.

Good graphics. I liked the ambient sound. I also liked the "variety" -- character interaction, weapons, bioweapons, etc.

But ...

It's too slow. I have to admit, I didn't believe the reviewers. I thought: these guys must be running some pretty lousy machines if they're complaining about the speed!

Uhhh. No. My computer is not normally *that* slow. (P4 2.8GHz HT, 1GB dual-channel cas-2 RAM, 80GB RAID0 array, Gigabyte 8knxp mobo, GeForce 5600.)

Admittedly, my graphics card is not the "best", but even with the detail turned down in the game, and running in 640x480 (!!), the response was poor. It felt like the mouse was moving through a thick viscous fluid -- it just never responded quickly. Given the speed at which a number of other modern games play on my computer, I have a hard time believing that it's my hardware.

Re:Nice game, but like others said ... it's slow

[TheOnlyCoolTim]

The demo was released with all sorts of XBox settings.

Literally, you can go into the .ini file and see

;this FOV is for the HUD only. On the XBox, we need to keep all HUD elements within 10% of the edges. ;FOV__d=68 ;68 is good for the PC version
FOV__d=61

There's another one called "MouselagThreshold" that's set to 75. It should be set to 0, and that fixes your slow response.

Tim

Re:Nice game, but like others said ... it's slow

[blincoln]

The demo was released with all sorts of XBox settings.

I wish they had gone one step further and included an option to auto-configure a gamepad with the XBox controls.

I've been playing almost exclusively console games lately, and trying out the demo made me realize just how much I hate using a keyboard and mouse as a controller.

I just picked up an adapter from Lik-Sang that lets me use my PS2 gamepad as a PC controller (with force feedback!), and I was hoping to try it out on this demo. I think I'll just get the console version instead when it comes out.

Re:Nice game, but like others said ... it's slow

[cgenman]

2.4 AthXP 1GB DC DDR RAM, 80 GB 133 SATA, Radeon 9600 Pro.

Demo maxed out at 800 x 600. However, with the multiple graphic samplings, 800 x 600 easily looked as good as 1024 x 760 does on other games.

Still, is it the graphics engine that is slow? I'm personally amazed by the collision modeling shown in the demo level. With that many boxes bouncing around at any given time, how can one expect the game to keep up? I'm amazed that it does as well as it does without choking out the main processor.

Re:Nice game, but like others said ... it's slow

[TheOnlyCoolTim]

You actually prefer first person shooters with a gamepad rather than a mouse?

Damn.

Tim

Re:Nice game, but like others said ... it's slow

[Recoil_42]

i do too, actually.

once you get used to it, it's actually alot nicer than using a mouse and wasd, simply because movement is analog, and you don't ever have to look down to .

its also much more realisitc -- aiming is much harder, and while most people complain about this, i think its just a matter of how games are made -- in most PC fps's, it takes 10-50 shots to kill someone, because everyone is always so precise. ergo, very little people play tom clancy games on PC.

but on XBOX, for instance, Rainbow Six 3 is the most-played game on XBOX live, followed by Ghost Recon: Island Thunder. Because aiming is so much more realistic, one or two shots can kill, and so more people play these games. otherwise, you get into 'death ballets' where everyone dances aroudn everyone else trying to hit them 50 times.

really, once you get used to it, console controls on first person shooters is infintely better than mouse+wasd. it just rewards the skillful player that much more.

(don't even bother with ps2 though, because the analog sticks are too short -- xbox has longer sticks, meaning better precision, hence the popularity of FPS's on it.)

Re:Nice game, but like others said ... it's slow

[BenjyD]

There are plenty of games on the PC where one or two shots kill. Day of Defeat and Operation Flashpoint, to name two. To me, the accuracy of the mouse is about right - up close, it's pretty hard to miss a man-sized target if you're standing still.

I still remember the awfulness of goldeneye on the N64. Controlling your arms with a joystick just seems wrong to me.

Re:Nice game, but like others said ... it's slow

[Recoil_42]

but in a PC game, its too easy to get those 1-2 shots in... you missed my point. what i was saying is that using WASD+ a mouse makes it so easy to aim, that developers usually compensate by making it harder to kill someone. its for that reason that ghost recon and rainbow six and operation flashpoint aren't too popular on the PC, whereas they (GR and RS3) have enjoyed record sales on XBOX, where its harder to hit someone, and therefore more realistic. and to respond to your comment: "To me, the accuracy of the mouse is about right - up close, it's pretty hard to miss a man-sized target if you're standing still." yeah, but thats the same with a console, isnt it. what about far away? sniping is FAR too easy on PC, catch my drift? it takes real skill to be a sniper in halo for xbox -- in the PC version, they had to make the sniper rifle 5x less powerful to compensate, iirc.

Re:Nice game, but like others said ... it's slow

[_Sexy_Pants_]

Whatever you enjoy, that's fine. I prefer the mouse though. I don't have to look down, since I have pretty much the same key configuration for all my first person shooters, and the mouse is simply more accurate. A perfect example: Playing GTA3 on my computer, one mission required that I snipe a series of men from far away. They stood perfectly still and shot at somebody else. On the computer, it was a piece of cake: Point and click. Meanwhile, on my Xbox, I found myself wrestling with the controls to line it up on this one guy. Maybe it's because I don't have the finesse, but the mouse seems like the more fluid answer. As for realism though, that's mostly a game specific argument. I switch between Team Fortress and Counter-Strike all the time. In team fotress, you honestly might have to hit a heavy weapons guy at least 25 times with one of your guns to take him down. I've done it, I love it. In fact, there's a rush, a sense of triumph from it. Counter-strike gives me a different rush. I'm edgy, easily excitable (and thusly, not very good). I could argue, however, that on a gamepad, the motions of your hand if you are scared by the random terrorist plugging bullets into you, are completely ignored. The crosshair is aligned and doesn't move as it fires if you don't move the stick. Meanwhile, on a computer if I'm scared or if I get too excited, I'll move my mouse unintentionally, making it harder for me to aim. That's more realistic if you ask me.

Re:Nice game, but like others said ... it's slow

[AllUsernamesAreGone]

Except that the mouse controls are more realistic for the characters you are supposed to be playing. Look at it this way - in most of the games you've mentioned (indeed, in most games where you do any shooting) you're supposed to be a soldier or at least someone trained in firearms use (either by army, law, society or crime). Someone with some training, decent hand-eye coordination and a sniper rifle is going to be able to introduce your grey matter to a bullet from a significant distance. And that will kill you with the first hit. You're supposed to be someone trained to go into a firefight and be able to hit someone with some accuracy (okay, so if it's American army training, probably your allies, but at least they hit something....) You are not going to stand there spraying the walls while tweaking some damn stick for a couple of seconds.

Or put another way, you may have lousy aim in real life, but that doesn't mean everyone else does as well.

Re:Nice game, but like others said ... it's slow

[TheOnlyCoolTim]

For movement as in walking around, I think you have an interesting point - an analog stick could give you better control than four digital keys and a modifier key that makes you run or walk.

It still feels unnatural to me to control my aim or look direction with a joystick, though. I think if aiming is supposed to be hard, it should be accomplished more naturally, through the game - for example, Deus Ex 1 had a crosshair that would change sizes - if you were running, unskilled with a weapon, or had just fire, it would be huge and you would have a hard time hiting anything. If you were crouching, skilled, and taking careful aim, it would be tiny and you could get headshots. That feels better to me than just depening on cumbersome controls introducing difficulty.

Tim

Re:Nice game, but like others said ... it's slow

[Brad Cossette]

I'll point you to a previous thread on this - the other poster here has made a few good comments, but there's a LOT of tweaks you need to make.

http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/11/2 2/ 1715233&mode=thread&tid=127&tid=186&tid=204&tid=20 6

If you look at the .ini files, they're littered with comments about this setting being for XBOX, this is for PC. And all the PC settings are commented out. Dumb dumb dumb... I hope someone in their QA team is feeling like an idiot.

If you make all of the above changes in your ini file(s), the game is amazingly better. I went from unplayable on 640x480 to smooth and beautiful on 1024x780. And I'm running with a AMD 2500XP, 712 MB GeForce 3 card. You should be able to smoke that...

Re:Nice game, but like others said ... it's slow

[bugbread]

I do too. It really showed when I played Hitman 2 on the XBox (and loved it), and then tried to play it on the PC only to quit before I'd even finished the training tutorial. I'm just too used to the gamepad to get back into the swing of mouse and keyboard.

Spector and Church

[robson]

What's bugged me for a long while now is that Warren Specter made a comment on Thief 3, one to the effect that he "doesn't get it", referring to the Thief genre.

I suspect it's part of a long-running public debate between Warren Spector and Doug Church about semi-emergent vs. stealth-style game-play. (This debate is reasonably represented by Deus Ex and Thief, respectively.) You can read more about this here.

In short, it's not that Warren doesn't "get" Thief -- it's that he doesn't necessarily agree with that particular set of design decisions.

Re:Silver lining?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think this is flamebait. It would be flamebait if the demo was cool, or in the least not a port of the xbox version, but it is isn't. He speaks the truth in a rude fashion.

Xbox port proof:
In the configure controls menu, why can't you use the mouse? Why wouldn't you be able to use the mouse? I dunno, if the game was made specifically for a controller maybe... but that's just guessing

Re:I played it ... I agree it Sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

his earlier titles were not flukes, they all follow the same exact rule: stealh, open endedness(probably not a word), and user choice are all important.

Ultima Underground, System Shocks, the Thief series, and Deus Ex all followed these. For some reason, he must have been stoned and wanted the new deus ex choices to always end up in a fire fight I guess.

Oh well, every great genius deserves a failure, they've earned it. I mean, Howard Scott Warshaw made E.T. for the Atari and made the best freaking game in the world: Yars Revenge. ET is by far the worst, Yars revenge of course outdoes Doom 3.

Hopefully, this will only be his one failure.

Time for an upgrade, I guess...

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the first time I have run into being unable to play a game on my Geforce2 GTS 32mb video card. It saddens me, because the demo won't start without "1.1 or higher pixel shader support", which I'm given to understand is generally an eyecandy feature anyway.

But the people with MX cards are the ones who are really pissed, because even with a "Geforce4" MX card they don't have the requisite pixel shading ability. Mostly something to blame Nvidia's marketing on, but nobody has really justified (to me, at least) why the game must REQUIRE support for what I sense to be a mostly luxury effects option.

Re:Time for an upgrade, I guess...

[metalmario]

DirectX 8.0 class cards with primitive pixel shaders are dirt cheap now. And even if it worked without pixel shader hardware old vidcards would not cut it, because of the high number of onscreen polys... It's not that bad, and yes, time for an upgrade. Like we all do, once in a year or 1.5 years.

A little more than a grain of salt....

[MMaestro]

Deus Ex 1 was arguably one of the most acclaimed games of that year. When a game as big as that gets a sequel, theres GOING to be SOME kind of mass bitching either before, during, or after the game release.

Before : Any big MMORPG game; complaints about it being too big, too high system requirements, bad customer service, not being able to install it correctly, etc.

During : Too many recent games; huge bugs in the game that "some how" managed to get past beta testing and results in a new patch being released less than week after the game hits shelves.

After : Virtually any game that doesn't have kickass multiplayer action that keeps people coming back for more; GTA3/VC which people complained about getting boring just crashing and messing around with cars, Morrowind being too big and not interactive enough, and Halo because its system requirements made it difficult to get into a good non-laggy server.

Re:I played it ... I agree it Sucks

[ArmyOfFun]

So he [Ray Kassar] called me up from Monterey and said, "Howard, we need E.T." This was like July 23, and he said "We need E.T. by September 1. Can you do it?" - Howard Scott Warshaw.
Excerpt taken from The Ultimate History of Video Games

Great book btw. Anyway, given the time constraints, I think Warshaw gets a pass.

Re:I played it ... I agree it Sucks

[cgenman]

Remember, Deus Ex was considered the bastard stepchild of Ion Storm. Consisting primarily of people fed up with Mr. Romero, Deus Ex was greenlighted as a throwaway project until the excellent Daiktana was ready to ship. Nobody, least of all the population at large, was expecting it to be huge.

Now that it is, people are going to pull the sequel apart for any differences it might have. "I don't like the interface." "The mouse is jerky." "It runs slow." Well guess what... The is no worse than Xenogears, the mouse is already fixed, and all new games run slow. what you can't really get is a grasp of the gameplay from a demo. Sure, you can get a taste of it... there is no area that is unreachable by piling on boxes, for example. But how far can you really go? People are already condemning it before having ever played it, simply because it is A: different than it's predecessor, and B: the Demo runs like a Demo.

I don't think we'll know if the emergent gameplay design was successful until the game ships in December. Only then can we call it a failure. Or a success.

Re:I played it ... I agree it Sucks

[arkanes]

I'm a big Spector fan, and I was really looking forward to this game. The Demo failed disasterously in my case because without it I would have bought the game an now I won't.

Some reasons why:

The AI is moronic, there's no excuse for it.
Non-localized damage raises the bar on suspension of disbelief to an incredible level
The whole "dumbing down" of the game - unified ammo, the (very poor) interface - these things make it feel like a crappy Acclaim game. I'm not interested in a crappy Acclaim game, I want the kind of open ended gameplay and versatility that I had in Deus Ex. Stealth play is totally out if the demo is any consideration, because sniping is broken without localized damage and non-lethal attacks are fucked up. You're exactly right that I'm complaing because it's different. I liked Deus Ex and I like that genre and I want another game like it in that genre, not Yet Another Goddamn FPS.
"It runs like a demo"? Where the hell did the idea that demos are SUPPOSED to run like shit come from? This is a demo for the PC people and I don't think it's too much to ask that they have the PC port cleaned up before they release it. They would have done alot better to have released it as an XBox demo disc. The purpose of a demo is to showcase the game, and in this case everything they showcased makes me NOT want the game, and that really depresses me, because I really, really wanted to love this game.

Re:I played it ... I agree it Sucks

[cgenman]

I agree with most of what you say, but not all of it. The lack of non-localized damage is odd, and unintuitive. Unified ammo is also odd, but not something we should hold against it until we see how the finished game plays. I tend to feel Unified ammo will free the player to play in a way reflective of their style. The interface isn't great, but it isn't terrible. The AI? I can't say for sure because the two areas of the demo were pretty severly separated, but the AI seemed to handle itself OK.

Demos always run like s#(t. They're usually finished a month before the game is, and are based off of really old code. I would be surprised if the final game was running 100% better, but many problems will have been ironed out between demo and gold.

BTW, apparently you haven't seen the depths of crappyness of modern acclaim games. Let me remind you what they're capable of.

Re:Silver lining?

[Anonymous Coward]

In the X-Box version of the game you can't bind anything. That entire screen only exists in the PC version. Nice proof, Einstein.

People want it all

[yellow*five]

I think a couple important points that most people are missing is what made the original good. Deus Ex was a jack of all trades and master of none. It wasn't a tactical shooter, nor was it a pure stealth sneaking game either. It had elements of all, which added to a greater whole. I tend to agree with IS about many things, and am reserving judgement until the final game is released.

That aside: I see a lot of people asking for a downloadable higher-res texture pack for PCs, and to have the bump-mapping and specular highlighting apparent in early screenshots returned. In the same breath, they'll also demand that the game have a higher framerate. These things are mutually exlusive, and the expectation puts IS in an awkward position where they cannot possibly address people's desires with a patch. Basically people seem to want the original game, but with extremely advanced real-time graphics, that will run on a low-end 2 year old system.

keep dreaming....

Re:I played it ... I agree it Sucks

[Decaffeinated Jedi]

I thought that the surprisingly awesome Anachronox was the bastard child of Ion Storm...

I couldn't play it

[Atroxodisse]

I tried but I think I was getting about 10 frames a second if not less. I had it on the lowest settings. I admit my system isn't top of the line but I have a Geforce FX 5200, 512 MB DDR memory and a 1700 Athlon XP. It should run smoother. When are developers going to realize that eye candy does not a good game make?

Re:I couldn't play it

[metalmario]

Perhaps the same day when consumers realize that they cannot play 3D-games using really slow video cards. Even without the eye candy do you think GfFX 5200 would be able to push those polygons?

Re:I couldn't play it

[Atroxodisse]

Gimme a break, the card just came out. I shouldn't need a top of the line card to get more than 5 fps. There are lots of much better looking games that I can get 40fps or higher.

Is there a need for 'journalists' to review a demo

[MBraynard]

I get the need for reviews for retail games - potentially saving a gamer 50+ dollars. But this is a review of a DEMO! Don't get a filtered (other person's) perspective or waste time reading it. DL it and find out how well it suits your tastes for free.

Ditto for 'music' critics. Go to a store that lets you preview the music and make up your own mind.

Eh, that's a little off topic, isn't it.

Re:Silver lining?

[Anonymous Coward]

you can change controls dipshit, it's the same screen.

Re:I played it ... I agree it Sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

Warren Spector didn't have anything to do with System Shock 2. And I'm fairly sure there are a couple of others in there that he had nothing to do with. SS2 Credits

Re:I played it ... I agree it Sucks

[ChaoticLimbs]

I loved Yars Revenge so much I bought the Atari 8-in-one from ThinkGeek just to play it again. It's still fun. My kids don't get it.

Re: Disbelief and realism

[Anonymous Coward]

There's realism in games and then there's going too far. Do you want a game or a simulation? Cuz if it's a simulation you want, then there's a million other things wrong with this game and EVERY OTHER GAME, including the fact that getting shot doesn't instantly disable player control. Face it, one bullet to your leg and you shouldn't be able to walk around anymore.

I actually enjoyed it

[mudpyr8]

Immersive, great sound. I'm running a modest system (Athlon 2500, 512 MB, Radeon 9600 Pro) and I ran it in 1024x768 with 2x Oversampling. Framerate is unknown, but it never stuttered and was smooth, so I assume it was greater than 30fps. I do find it humerous that it is an "nvidia" co-branded game, but runs fine on my ATI when everyone else is having issues.

I do agree with some posters that it would be nice to have a 1-shot, 1-kill if it hits in the right spot. Since most of the baddies had body armor, hitting the right spot would be tough. There are many ways to handle avoiding the insta-kill of key bad guys, but mook gaurds should be easy pray, if you are set up right. Just because you put your crosshairs right on the guard's face and click the mouse during a fight without aiming doesn't mean that's where you'll hit.

Many tabletop RPGs have solved this problem 10x over, I don't know why the video gaming industry doesn't get it.

However, the game was still intriguing. It was a STORY based game, not UT2K3 for jimmeny's xmas! Such a game is slower moving, and requires more thought. I actually felt bad when I used the guard's flamethrower to toast a glob in a cage and caught a nearby kitty.

If you turn the opacity of the interface down to 0, it isn't obtrusive at all.

I also like the fact you can't carry a frickin' arsenal. Sure you can carry 6 guns if you want, but then you won't have room for useful items. The spider bombs were really sweet, using EMP to take out a camera and then shocking the guards. Allowed me to engage in gunplay without setting off the alarm.

The biomods were wicked. I didn't use the leech on the kitties, but the rat in the alley was worth a few points of health.

I agree the console version would be tough, but the lack of a defined hit location system makes it a little easier to imagine. Actually having a bunch of different buttons would be useful for inventory management/item activation.

I think this game has a lot of potential, and could be really great. If you prefer quake instead of system shock, this game might not be for you. It is a good blend of an RPG, and many of the slower elements that go with that genre, than say SOF2. It is probably a lot closer to Splinter Cell than anything, with more interactivity and a wider variety of sci-fi powers/effects.

Re: Screw them

[Anonymous Coward]

I JUST upgraded from a Geforce 2 to a 64mb Geforce 4... unfortunately it's an MX card. Ion Storm can bite me. I loved the first DX and was really looking forward to this, but I'm not gonna buy a new card AGAIN just cuz they can't be bothered to make the game scalable for non pixel shader cards.

Re: Oh? Try Max Payne 2

[Anonymous Coward]

I downloaded 2 new demos in the same day. One was DX 2, the other was Max Payne 2. One runs beautifully smooth and the other won't run at all. Guess which is which?

Re:Silver lining?

[Anonymous Coward]

I see a Control menu, with a few options that are there in the X-Box version like Vibration and Sensitivity, and then a Key Mappings button, which is NOT in the X-Box version of the game, which takes you to a screen where you can bind any keys you want. In ALL of these screens, you can use the mouse to select things, etc. Did you play the same demo everyone else is playing?

Massive Overreacting

[inkless1]

OK, performance problems suck. They always do. There's no denying it. But people are acting like this is the first PC demo in the history of man to have bizarre performance issues with unknown configs. They (and by they I mean everyone, including such pundits as Penny-Arcade) jump to the conclusion that it just must be a problem with game itself, it can't be fixed, Ion Storm sucks, blah blah blah.

Guess what. Runs fine on lots of boxes. Full res here, no probs. It's quite likely something to be ironed out in the near future.

Then everyone jumps on the interface, once again acting like it's some cardinal sin to have to figure out how to move an item from one slot to the other. Yes, I think it could be friendlier. No, I don't think the 10 minutes out of my life it took me to get the hang of it was worth any form of forum flaming.

Unified ammo. Yes, it's a dumb idea. I also think anyone who thinks it will completely ruin a game like Deus Ex 2 never really appreciated the first.

No locational damage. Sure I'd like to see something in SOF2, but having "run at every enemy and get headshots" removed from option list is also not the worst thing to happen to any game.

After that it degenerates into such whininess as "the levels are too dark."

Yes, it's regrettable that Ion Storm released a demo with tech problems and some really bad ini files. Yeah, that sucks. It's worse, though, to see much of the PC gaming community jump on the bandwagon over it rather than giving it a chance. The demo didn't even really grab me until I tried it for the second time, but by the fourth time I played it I was pretty sold on the game.

But hey, what Spector PC game actually sold well when it first came out anyway?

Re:I played it ... I agree it Sucks

[kannibal_klown]

Performance issues aside, I have only 1 other problem with the demo... the interface (not the hud, but the way you interact with off-screen things).

Excample: the inventory system. They made it so it was easy to ue with a controller: Scroll here with keypad, press a button, select another item with a keypad, click a button to swap..

DX had an awesome inventory system, much like thief and ss2.

Also, try hacking a security terminal in the original DX, and the demo. You go from nice looking screen that LOOKS like a terminal, to an option screen from DOOM 1. WTF is up with that?!?!

I kept my pre-order though. I'm just hoping the overall game is still a fun experience.
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