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Cheap Linux Tablets, And (Maybe) An Apple Tablet
penguinrenegade writes "Element Computer has come out with the first sub-$1000 Tablet, and it doesn't come with Windows. It's not running a stripped OS like Windows CE, but a full-fledged copy of Lycoris Desktop/LX. This company seems to really have it in for Microsoft, with a 'No Windows' policy. Good to see someone finally standing up against paying the Microsoft tax. Maybe now we'll start seeing Linux only OEMs and resellers." Also on the tablet computer front, SeanAhern points out Cringely's latest Robert X. Cringely column, in which Cringley makes the case that Apple is readying a tablet computer for market, and "suggests that 'until next year, the parts won't have been there to make tablet PCs successful. What's missing has been the killer app, and what kept a killer app from appearing was a lack of hardware support, which I believe will be over soon,'" writing "He's got some interesting ideas about where Jobs might go with his Digital Hub idea." (This is an Antaur-based machine, not the Toshiba tablet mentioned in October.)
Apple's bound to make a tablet eventually. If the market demands it, it'll definitely happen, and the current tablets on the market suck. Apple's got the Newton tech for handwriting recog, as well as Inkwell, the most underused feature in OS X...now, all you have to add is a touch sensitive screen and BINGO.
Depending on the software availability angle, this could be a major breakthrough for Linux, being the primary OS for a vendor.
Man that was fast... and this error makes me wonder:
1226 - User 'elementc_ms2' has exceeded the 'max_questions' resource (current value: 10000)
Does that mean there are in excess of 10,000 people trying to hit this site at once? Wow.
If i remember correctly, Robert X. Cringely was the same guy who wrote that Win XP ran DOS underneath becasue "cmd" works and that windows should be based on linux instead because linux is better than DOS. /. , what i dont understand is why this guy is so important?
For all the stupid things i have seen on
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
According to Steve Jobs himself I don't think we can expect to see a tablet from apple at all. It's a niche product in a niche computer field.
- tristan
But a tablet mac sounds like the furthest device from possibility to me. I'm just going on gut feeling admittedly.
Apple tend to innovate in solid areas. There's the odd revolution (the original mac, the original powerbooks) and then there's refining what already exists and people want, such as iPods
a Mac tablet would be refining a current idea that few people want.
"Maybe now we'll start seeing Linux only OEMs and resellers."
That was never a problem in the first place. It is that Microsoft has threatened to revoke the ability of retailers to carry computers with Windows alongside with other OSes (i.e. stop selling Linux, or you can't sell Windows). Most retailers balked, since most of their business is Windows, they'd rather not have to worry about losing a large portion of their customers for the sake of those that want Linux.
But, how do you protect that screen? Something big like that just seems to be a huge scratch and scuff collector. Is this the case or am I just missing something obvious again?
"Maybe now we'll start seeing Linux only OEMs and resellers."
Wishful thinking, and I'm wishing it too. The problem is a base. Tablet PCs haven't been doing so hot (at least not in my neighborhood). The only major interest that I've seen on a large scale has been that of FedEx looking to implement them with their current DADS system, in addition to maintaining open communications with cellular towers. I'm a FedEx dispatcher myself, so I'm kept abreast of what technologies we're planning on moving to in the future. Tablet PCs in the field will help keep us even more accurately up-to-date. Currently, our drivers can only transmit when in range of our larger towers (which are only in the cities), meaning that customers wanting updated tracking information on a package routed to a rural area just have to sit and wait until the driver is in range to transmit data confirming that he/she has indeed delivered that package. With properly equipped tablets, we're hoping to eliminate this problem with true real-time status updates.
What's curious is that, though I may have my head in the clouds, I've really not heard of any other major market for these things beyond novelty. The exception being the Apple rumor. Had apple had access to the technology in a financially feasable market (say 1994) I can absolutely see how ClarisWorks 4 could have dominated the word processing market of that day, and we'd have tablet PCs everywhere. As it stands now, I get the impression that people aren't quite sure what to do with these crazy things.
Damon,
http://actionPlant.com
Front Page
It's not much, but at least provides a "look" at one of their products.
-OZ
this:
OS like Windows CE
should read:
OS-like Windows CE
-knowles
Tablet computers hold great promise, especially for medical applications. But the current models are still way too large to swallow.
NOVEMBER 27, 2003
Digital Hubris:
Apple's Tablet Computer Might Finally Be That Link Between Your PC and TV
By Robert X. Cringely
High-tech is relentlessly optimistic and for good reason: the good times -- ALL the good times -- are caused by product transitions. New stuff costs more, has higher profit margins, and occasionally leads to changes in market leadership. A year or two later, these products will have been commoditized, the profit sucked out of them by intense competition, and it will be time to move on to the next big thing. Four years ago, the cheapest 802.11b access point you could buy cost $299. This week, I saw one advertised that with rebates brought the final cost down to zero, nothing, nada, zilch. Time to move on. So high-tech is always looking forward, never back, and taking a gamble on something new isn't perceived so much as a gamble but as a way of life.
The techniques for getting us to buy new stuff vary. In the best of cases, these new sales are driven by new functionality -- a color printer instead of black-and-white, a notebook computer instead of a desktop, a DVD instead of a VCR. At other times, the upgrade is driven by bloat as new MIPS-burning applications and operating systems make our old stuff too painfully slow. This doesn't happen by accident, folks. And into this performance abyss we throw not just new products but new TYPES of products, because industrial dynasties come from defining new market niches. Hewlett-Packard, for all its glorious history, is more than anything else a laser printer company. Cisco Systems, for all its desire to be something more, is a router company. These are niches they defined and that have led to decades of success.
And that brings us to the tablet computer, a tightly-defined product still in search of success.
Tablet computers have been around in various forms for years. Back in the early 1990s, we called it Pen Computing, and VCs lost a lot of money trying to get us to exchange our keyboard for a touchscreen and a stylus. The product success that emerged from that experiment was something both more and less than what was expected -- the Palm Pilot and later Windows CE. We didn't replace our desktops and notebooks with pen computers, but we added a new type of little computer to our lives. It was that perfect technical play -- the chance to replace a seven dollar, little black book with a $399 PDA.
A couple years ago, pen computers re-emerged as tablets with a larger form factor, supposedly expanded functionality and definitely expanded pricing. Microsoft made a special version of Windows just for tablet PCs, and most of the big hardware OEMs churned out tablet designs. But we haven't been buying them. In a U.S. market that supports sales of 50+ million PCs and notebooks per year, total tablet PC sales from all manufacturers this year will be less than 100,000 units. The screens are bigger and brighter, the applications smarter and the handwriting recognition better, but tablet computers are still looking for their killer app.
Apple Computer has been decidedly absent from the tablet game. In part, this has to do with the failure of the Newton, which will always be associated in the mind of Steve Jobs with his former friend and nemesis John Sculley. "Real computers have keyboards," Steve has said a zillion times, and he'll mean it right up to the moment he changes his mind.
That moment appears to be coming soon.
Quanta, the Taiwanese company that makes many Apple notebooks, has been apparently switching its production to the new tablets, or at least that has been reported in the Taipei press since early this year. If this is the case that Apple is introducing such a machine as early as January, how is it likely to be different from the Windows-based tablet machines that have so far failed to excite buyers? And why, in the face of such lackluster sales, has Microsoft done another rev of its tablet operating system? What is it about this product niche that makes it so attracti
Inkwell is the Newton's handwriting recognition engine ported to OS X.
For certain uses, tablets are great. I loved the Newton - it was a great computing solution for people who have to stand up. (Like walking around doing inventory control, or doing data entry while inspecting a highway, doctors, etc.)
If Apple could also market it so that it competes with something like the Wacom Cintiq tablets, but also could have a keyboard plugged in and be like a full blown Mac, I could see it filling a niche.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
And will no doubt be the only Tablet that people actually want, and that does what people need a Tablet to do.
Then, three years later, the x86 crowd will rip it off and Mac bashers will once again jump back on the "HUR HUR MACS COST MONEY HUR HUR" bandwagon.
Department of Homeland Security: Removing the rights real patriots fought and died for since 2001
This is going to seem like your average flaming /. question (hmm, that didn't quite come out right), but I'm genuinely curious as to the problem that the tablet PC solves. What's it good for?
I honestly don't see the use in it, and instead I really see another try by engines of industry to create demand for a product noone really needs...
Hopefully someone can explain it to me, and this isn't just me turning 30...
The article talks about the "killer app" for the tablet being home theater (basically). Then it goes to add that the hardware to make that possible - UWB wireless - is just coming out in January.
To me though none of these pieces add up. I can possibly see HD video feeds between components and even PC's being of some use - but to a tablet? HD resolution is going to be wasted on a tablet screen (at least at current DPI for LCD's).
Then once the video gets to the table - what then? A really large glorified remote control? Why would Apple have any interest in that?
In the article he even mentioned the quote from Jobs that I agree with 100% - computers need keyboards. I have zero desire to see a tablet from Apple, partly because I feel it would be a drain on them but also partly because I just can't see how such a device fits into anyones world other than sketch artists. I beta tested some kind of tablet PC long ago, and the device worked OK - but I was hard pressed to find good reasons to own one, and now I have a laptop which I find much handier.
Would an Apple tablet be cool? Possibly, but not in the same way the iPod or OSX is cool...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The Helium 2100, from Staten Island, N.Y.-based manufacturer Element Computer, is a convertible PC with a sliding screen that can be positioned for use as a traditional notebook PC or folded down for use as a touch-screen tablet device. "
Source: http://news.com.com/2100-1005_3-5112309.html?tag=n efd_top
well it's circular thinking..
**What's missing has been the killer app, and what kept a killer app from appearing was a lack of hardware support, which I believe will be over soon**
killer app hasn't come because there hasn't been hardware deployed widely(i take 'hardware support' as this, lack of market), but wouldn't a killer app be the thing that would enable that hardware to sell.. so that there would be enough of them deployed for somebody to make that killer app..
well personally i'd have the 'killer app' for myself, but that would need it to be water proof.
what's that you ask, what would be my killer app? reading while in bath(or while showering, but that would waste water and that would be bad karma right? or maybe while in a rain). really, the places where you couldn't use a laptop are pretty much the places where you can't have the fragility(and being afraid of water) of a laptop. if it was STURDY, and liquidproof there would be lots of uses for it.
well, of course if you were of disgusting mind(such as myself) you could imagine using it for pron while at there..
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
whois elementcomputer.com:
"Domain name: ELEMENTCOMPUTER.COM
Administrative Contact:
Hjorleifsson, Mike mikeh@dtev.com"
OK, lets look here:
http://www.dtev.com
They are a bunch of Linux consultants.
Dtev.com Isn't slashdotted yet!
Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
I heard of a company that made decent hardware, but Linux only. I think their name was VA something or other. Ever heard of them?
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
I'm sorry if I sound like a dumbass, and I hope this isn't offtopic, but I've been wondering for a while now. What is Lycoris? They're registered as a distribution on http://www.linux.org/ and yet there is no download and as far as I've read in their own support they don't mention what liscense it's released under. Does this OS use the linux kernel, if so what liscense does it use? If it's LGPLed why is there no downloadable source/version? Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions or start a flame war on my behalf.
Kleedrac
Sure we wang, can.
Helium 2100
$999
Preconfigured Linux Tablet with Lycoris Desktop/LX
Key features
14.1-inch XGA (1024 x 768) Touch Panel active matrix display
Perfect 2-in-1 convertible design, Notebook and Tablet PC
Processor: 1 GHz VIA? Antaur
Stylus included
256MB Installed Memory: up to 1 GB of DDR266 200-pin DRAM via two sockets
30GB Installed Hard Drive: up to 80 GB
Keyboard: 85-key keyboard with Extended Function Keys
O/S: Powered by Desktop/LX Tablet Edition
Battery: up to 3 hours battery life
Wireless: internal 802.11b (11 MBps) (OPTIONAL)
Ports:
2x USB 1.1/2.0;
1x type II PCMCIA/CardBus slot;
1x IrDA 1.1 FiR;
1x stereo headphone jack;
1x RJ11 for K56flex V90 modem;
1x RJ45 for 10/100 LAN;
1x external CRT port;
4-in-1 Flash Card Reader SD/MMC/MS/SM
This is going to be a bitter pill to swallow, but the market needs strong medicine. The writing's on the wall. Let's not sugar-coat the truth.
One more thing, his "Killer App" of a digital hub is simply based on Steve Job's quote made just last month. But, personally, I don't think Cringely is on the right path. Jobs has said before that the TV and computer shouldn't merge, and Job's idea of Digital Hub has been iTunes, iDVD etc, not directly interacting with your home appliances.
Joseph Elwell.
I think most manufacturers are having problems with table PCs because they are trying to make them keyboardless laptops. It will never happen. Why? I hate to write. So do many others and true handwriting technology is so processor intensive you can't currently pack it into a handheld. I'd rather type. I can type much faster that I can write and, well, you see where I'm going with this.
If I were going to deliver a "tablet" PC, I'd make one like this:
Basically, it would simply be a touch-sensitive dumb terminal for a "central server" or master machine on my desk or in my closet. I'd want to be able to "VNC" to my desktop or open one of several "published" X-window apps with a finger tap. Give me a browser, email client (could be a browser), basic word processing (all running off my central server) and perhaps a small collection of rdp and terminal service clients - perhaps also running off my desktop. With a simple GUI to configure a connection to one (or more?) parent hosts and little or no built-in brains, this could be made dirt cheap (all the processing is handled by the server) - you are paying mostly for the touchscreen - which doesn't have to be very big. I'd pay a couple hundred bucks a piece or so to have one sitting on my coffee table or in my bedroom.Remember, this isn't supposed to be a PC in it's own right. It's supposed to be an extension of my main PC. 90% of what I want to do with a "tablet" is monitor something or do a quick browse without having to run into the other room. If you try to make it be a computer in-and-of-itself, it will be prohibitively expensive, heavy, hot and large.
If I could take my Palm(tm), add low-power, built-in wireless networking, stretch the screen to about 10"x6" and add an Xwindows/VNC client, I'd be getting pretty close to having what I, personally, want in a tablet.
Just my opinion, but this comes from many time when I've caught myself wishing I could just have my monitor follow me from room to room.
"terrorism" and "pedophilia" are the root passwords to the Constitution
OMFG!! You are so right! BMW only has a 2% market share in the automotive market, so obviously their cars suck. Try again.
Department of Homeland Security: Removing the rights real patriots fought and died for since 2001
Nelson: Jimbo, take a memo on your Newton, beat up Martin.
Jimbo: [Writes "Beat up Martin"; Newton "recognizes."] "Eat up Martha"? Bah! [Throws at Martin's head.]
I don't want a linux-only-oem. I just want one to give me a choice...
windows, linux, or blank hard disk.
#6495ED - cornflower blue
According to Microsoft's Steve Ballmer:
"There are no plans to stop pushing tablets. When Microsoft first started out, people didn't want tablets. We realized: Death would eventually take care of this."
Breakfast served all day!
I remember back around 85 Apple had a contest for students to come up with a spec for the ideal machine of the future (2000! iirc), and the winner was basically a tablet computer.
-pyrrho
I see it as a combination of monitor, keyboard, and mouse. This way you can have a headless Mac running in the background with a cool-running, thin, relatively cheap portable. If you want to upgrade, you upgrade the box under the desk, not the tablet. This way, cheap people can use it with a G3/G4 as a cheap upgrade, and power users can use it with a G5. If the wireless range is good enough, you could use it to stream DVDs and Web stuff anywhere you wanted to use it.
The problems are (a) it would suck power like a mofo, so you'd have to plug it in, (b) the wireless range limits just how useful it could be before you'd have to start adding expensive, power-sucking, stuff like a hard drive to it, and (c) it you're doing a lot of keyboard entry, you'd want to hook up a keyboard, and probably sit down with this thing propped up like a conventional monitor.
I've really really tried to use Ink. And I'm sorry, but it sucks. It's caused me the same problems it caused me when it was on the Newton.
Even if I write like an angel, it screws up my words and sentence spacing.
Moreover, I can honestly type a hell of a lot faster (50+ wpm) then I can handwrite or shorthand.
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
Would be one of the Lamp iMacs with a detacheable pressure-sensitive screen.
The first thought that went through my head when Steve introduced those things was that he was going to pop the screen off. Think about it; the biggest problem with tablets are managing to fit the processing power, hard drive, battery, ram, etc. into a thin enough shell that it feels like nothing more than a thin notebook you write on. I love my Tibook, but as light as it feels for a laptop, it's too generally unwieldy to be a comfortable writing tablet. I don't see you how could make anything more than a very underpowered, annoying laptop trying to fit everything into the screen and ignore all attempts at a keyboard. The point of a useful tablet is not to replace the functionality of a laptop; I can type twice as fast as I can write, and the form allows for a hard drive of useful size, a good video processor, etc. Where a tablet pc comes in handy is a replacement for a sketch pad, or for a system where you're only needing to point and click, like web browsing. These activities don't need good processors and large hard drives, and so current tablets lack both. The problem is that you must justify spending another thousand dollars, the cost of a separate computer, for just these little conveniences. A laptop and a wacom tablet are a much easier investment.
The solution? Leave the hard drive, the main processor, and the video memory where they belong; in the base of that little lamp. And when you want a full computer, leave the monitor in and you got it. But for those moments when you really feel like sitting on the couch and browsing the web (without, I may add, a Titanium oven burning through your pants), you just pop off the display and go sit down. Run everything over 802.11g and a custom version of x11; it's perfectly fast enough over a direct LAN connection for browsing the web. And suddenly, the tablet is not a neat-looking expensive extra, but a very, very cool extra feature of your main system. Tablets with current technology are too "niche" to be really useful or marketable. So don't separate them into their own niche; make the niche a part of an existing system. It's the only situation in which *I'd* ever consider one worth having, at least.
Sometimes he's insightful but often he's grasping at straws with his ideas. This is one of the latter sort of times. According to this article which is admittedly a bit dated, tablet sales are above expectations and they expect to sell nearly 600,000 this year. This article while intimating poor sales says that Acer has sold 100,000 by itself this year. Cringley's number seems a bit off. That said, he's also off in his analysis. There's a market for tablet PCs. Every delivery person and every lawyer I've seen lately has one. They are great for taking notes. What they are not good for, is video. Even if you could solve the bandwidth issue, there's the horsepower issue. Displaying HD video is non-trivial. It requires a hefty processor (3.0 GHz would be nice) and a GPU to match. Most Tablet-style PCs will come with underpowered mobile PCs and a graphics card from someone like Trident. Sorry, it's just not going to work.
What I'm wondering is why no one has thought to market tablet PCs to artists yet. Alias makes some fantastic tablet art software, but none of the hardware manufacturers seem to get it. Whose needs are better fulfilled by a tablet PC than an artist? As an artist myself, I'd love to be able to draw directly into my computer rather than having to scan and clean up my drawings. Yes, I have a Wacom tablet, but I really need to be able to see what I'm drawing as I'm drawing it. Gabe, from Penny Arcade got one for exactly this reason.
What I'm hoping is that Apple realises this, they have a long history with artists and designers, and designs a tablet from the ground up with artists in mind (I'm thinking a convertable design, built like an iBook for durability, contoured so it's easy to hold). I also think the OS X gui is damn near perfect for touch screen navigation, or better than XP in any case.
Oh well, just one of the many things that has been on my "I hope someone makes this some day" list for some time.
Mr Cringely must live in a very small house !!
Macka
The Newton failed because Apple refused to let anyone write software for it. I recall back in the day as a student having to get together with several of my friends to pony up $1000 to get the development kit for the priviledge of writing software for my Newton.
Look at Palm ten years later - it's a toy by comparison, but it has a world of software. It's also cheaper at the low end, but not that much.
Apple could have backed the Newton until it had a footing and created a new market by getting on board with the open source bandwagon earlier than they have.
I applaud them for everything they are doing now and love my Powerbook, but they really screwed the Newton.
Pat Niemeyer