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Steve Jobs and the State of Legal Music Downloads
An anonymous reader writes "Rolling Stone has published an interview with Steve Jobs about the current state of the music industry. He is a smart man, that guy. 'When we first went to talk to these record companies -- about eighteen months ago -- we said, "None of this technology that you're talking about's gonna work. We have Ph.D.s here who know the stuff cold, and we don't believe it's possible to protect digital content."'"
"Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
is to make it cool to buy it. Make it something people *want* to spend the $$$ on.
"And it only takes one stolen copy to be on the Internet. The way we expressed it to them was: You only have to pick one lock to open every door." I really like this idea, and I think it needs highlighting. The simple truth is that music companies, so stuck to their physical medium, seem to have been, for so long, under the impression that mp3's are much like pieces of physical media; they're copied once, that copy goes somewhere, and then its all over, as if this "copying" thing requires some kind of physical action that each user must complete, much like Xeroxing paper.
Steve Jobs to the RIAA: "We asked 10,000 monkeys, and they don't seem to think that protecting diginal music is possible. However, they gave us this encyclopedia to give to you!"
Yes ladies and gentlement, Steve Jobs does know how to get the answers to the questions that matter the most.
---
The truth of a proposition has nothing to do with its credibility. And vice versa.
it's just not posible to protect something from millions of hackers... i remember that XP supossed to be "hacker-proof" with the internet activation system... HACKED before even XP was officially released. The SONY protected audio CD's... with a permanent black marker.... it is a utopia to think that no one will try to break the protection... the harder they try to protect something the more challenging to hackers is breakin it.
Putting a windows cd backwards, plays evil messages, but it gets worse, putting it right, installs windows.
I've gt a buddy with a HUGE classic vinyl collection (lots of rare stuff) and the artwork is worth WAY more than the record itself. Maybe there's a parallel these guys can draw to offer something a little more tangible than the bits. Having a scan of artwork isn't the same as having a rip of the music.
Of course for that to work, they'd have to stop pumping out 500 godzillion copies of every single album made, which is a problem for them as well.
But it should common sense .... sell a product and it sell the product the way the people want you will make a ton of money. Thats how capitalism is suppose to work.
Let's be realistic Pudge, Apple would not have been able to get anything off the ground for the Music Store if it had no sharing limits. As with almost everything these days, a compromise is reached that makes the best sense for both parties (or for one, depending on your viewpoint).
I know, I know...this is slashdot, where every editor shows their bias on each story. Perhaps I'm asking too much.
-Cyc
/.'s 10 Millionth
"It's not possible to protect digital content."
That really isn't that insightful. What he should have said was "people are still going to copy digital content, no matter what you do." Saying that it's not possible to protect digital content is just like saying "it's not possible to protect your home." You can put a lock on the door, but a burglar can break the window. You can put up an alarm, he can cut the power or something. You can create an armored bunker, but if the burglar's got a tank, it's not really going to matter.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
Smart guys. If you can play it, you can copy it. Either someone breaks the copy protection (Jon J) or you plug a digital out into a digital in.
Trouble is the record companies know this but still keep trying which just makes it harder and more frustrating for the avarage guy/girl who wants to listen to ligit tracks on a mp3 player.
I personally like the idea of being able to hear a song before I buy it and then just buy the songs I like. That why iTunes is good.
It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
I moderate therefore I rule!
--
Apple Computer is the maker of the popular Macintosh line of computers. The real operating system hiding under the newest version of the Macintosh operating system (MacOS X) is called... Darwin! That's right, new Macs are based on Darwinism! While they currently don't advertise this fact to consumers, it is well known among the computer elite, who are mostly Atheists and Pagans. Furthermore, the Darwin OS is released under an "Open Source" license, which is just another name for Communism. They try to hide all of this under a facade of shiny, "lickable" buttons, but the truth has finally come out: Apple Computers promote Godless Darwinism and Communism.
But is this really such a shock? Lets look for a moment at Apple Computers. Founded by long haired hippies, this company has consistently supported 60's counter-cultural "values". But there are even darker undertones to this company than most are aware of. Consider the name of the company and its logo: an apple with a bite taken out of it. This is clearly a reference to the Fall, when Adam and Eve were tempted with an apple by the serpent. It is now Apple Computers offering us temptation, thereby aligning themselves with the forces of darkness.
This company is well known for its cult-like following. It isn't much of a stretch to say that it is a cult. Consider co-founder and leader Steve Jobs' constant exhortation through advertising (i.e. mind control) that its followers should "think different". We have to ask ourselves: "think different than whom or what?" The disturbing answer is that they want us to think different than our Christian upbringing, to reject all the values that we have been taught and to heed not the message of the Lord Jesus Christ!
Given the now obvious anti-Christian and cultish nature of Apple Computers, is it any wonder that they have decided to base their newest operating system on Darwinism? This just reaffirms the position that Darwinism is an inherently anti-Christian philosophy spread through propaganda and subliminal trickery, not a science as its brainwashed followers would have us believe.
I'd heard of iTunes but I never bothered to look at it before, assuming it was just another music download service.
I love the idea and the way it's implemented... unlimited burning to CD is what I want and that's what you get. It seems America-centric which puts me off a little (I'm not going to be phoning America when my credit card gets charged by accident) but I was very interested in it and my girlfriend agreed with me.
I looked into it with the possibility of getting her a gift certificate for it for Christmas. Well... I would if it would work on ME or 98. Oh well, another good idea down the drain. I ain't paying to upgrade to XP (as well as the associated hassle) just for that one program, when everything else I download runs just fine. Come on Apple, get off your backside and make a 98 version.
"Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
What I found, while wanting to sample a song (before I buy the CD), was when you download a song and play it, they have the first ten seconds of the song play normally, then a high pitched sound screeches designed to destroy speakers. I doubt a 10 year old kid is behind that.
But the good news is that WinMX is not as spammed as Kazaa. Not as many people, but chances are you will not get the mp3's which are clearly designed to destroy speakers.
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
Actual current numbers for the sub services:
Rhapsody (from Real Networks): 250,000
MusicNet: 175,000
Napster (formerly pressplay): 80,000
MusicMatch MX: 150,000
Total here is over 600,000. These services tend to run about $10 per month, yielding a total revenue of over $6 million per month across all services. iTunes has sold 20 million songs in 7 months, or less than $3 million in revenue. Profit margins on subscriptions are higher as well.
I use Rhapsody and it kicks iTunes ass - there's just no comparison, given my listening habits (I'm almost always online). Looks like there are plenty of people who agree with me.
While I don't necessarily believe that they can protect it, I think it's far more interesting that here's yet another group that thinks just because a Ph.D. said something it's gotta be true. Holy crap, when are they going to learn that a Ph.D. doesn't give people complete insight into all things. Hell, most of the time they don't have insight beyond the scope of their own disseration.
Seeing as AAC has already been broken using their own player, I think that point is pretty well proven. It's not possible to protect digital content, if by "protect" you mean preventing copying.
Did you RTFA? Jobs explains how when he first pitched the idea the record companies balked because they wanted to do just that: use a subscription based model. These all failed and the record companies realized that pay per track was a more profitable idea.
I think it shows that there isn't a large enough market for subscription base. Those people are the hardcore music listeners, they are the minority. Most people listen to a song on the radio and say "wooooo that is catchy" and pay and download it and be done.
you can still see his legs, so that makes it shorts.
Incidently, you can convert any pair of shorts into slacks by wearing suitably long socks.
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
...at least he certainly gives that impression. His description of the "Kazaa experience" is the most intelligent thing I've heard a big executive say about Kazaa lately. It almost sounds as if he's tried it himself--or, at the very least, isn't six layers removed from someone who has.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
Media should be sold like electricity- with people paying a regular fixed fee to a chosen company. That way they can own content in whatever format they like, copy from whoever else has a license, use the media on whatever platform they like, and best of all the media giants could have a steady and predictable source of income.
I will never use anything from Real Player, not anything. I had a PC which I purchased from a store (It was a Sony), and it came with real player installed. Whenever I connected to the internet, real player felt compelled to connect to real networks to tell them what I have been doing. I can just imagine what their pay service is like if their free service is so horrible.
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
I haven't seen one "copy protection" scheme that has actually worked yet and I don't expect to see any in the future either. It's trivial to take the songs off an iPod and people are starting to unravel the DRM on the iTunes music store files - give it time ...
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
I've pretty much given up on iTunes and Napster 2 and the others for the time being. Only rarely do they have a specific song I am looking for. I also don't think they will ever, of course, carry the rare concert recordings that were easy to get on Napster 1.0 in its heyday (the stuff the RIAA can't whine about: they refuse to take our money for it in any way, anywhere).
If the RIAA wants the legal downloads to flourish, they should get serious about selling the music.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
No matter how much something is regulated (ie copyright), the laws of supply and demand still operate, albeit partially shaken up during the initial regulatory process.
When music is hard to get (low supply) and people want it (demand goes up) the price goes up. Look at live music back in the time of Bach or Beethoven. The average person could not afford it -- so only the rich had the best music. The poor had their "opera houses" that were not very safe and did not sound very good.
When music started to get more accessible (records and then tapes) and cheaper, supply went up, and demand went down, so the price went down.
As music became popularized through more radio productions and later television productions (MTV, etc), the supply went way up, the demand went way up, so the prices stayed consistent. The record labels charged what people were willing to pay. If the people were not willing to pay $18 for a CD, the prices would have come DOWN (supply up, demand down, prices drop).
Now we have the Internet. Supply goes up immensely, and demand to pay $18 a CD goes away. Therefore demand has dropped at that price, so the price has basically dropped. Some people pay $18, some people want it for free. Of course the record labels earn "less" per person per song. But the distribution cycle is so different, therefore you have to really look at the supply and demand issues differently.
If the incentive to produce "good" music goes down (less profit), then "good" music will diminish. As there is less and less "good" music, the supply will go down. Demand for "good" music will go up. People who are taking music for free will have less and less music to take for free. The free market over rides copyright and other bad laws by removing the supply of good music, as the incentive to profit is lost.
This is what will happen over time. Music production houses will find that they can make more money selling their popular tunes to TV commercials, movies soundtracks, nightclubs, and other places. Those songs will eventually be thrown into the virtual "public domain" of the Internet, but the cost to produce the music will be a function of the price of a movie, the cost to enter a nightclub, or the cost of a shampoo or fragrance or whatever it is that uses the song for its background music in a commercial.
You can regulate, you can mandate, you can tax. But you can't run from the rules of supply and demand.
here
Yeah, you hear that MS? Don't go copying any of Panther's UI or else we'll bring Scully back and settle with you for an undisclosed sum.
He changed the computer industry. Now he's after the music business
By Jeff Goodell
When Steve Jobs cruises into the airy reception area on the Apple Computer campus in Cupertino, California, on a recent morning, nobody pays much attention to him, even though he's the company's CEO. He's wearing shorts, a black T-shirt and running shoes. Tall and a little gawky, Jobs has a fast, loping walk, like a wolf in a hurry. These days Jobs seems eager to distance himself from his barefoot youth -- who was that crazy kid who once called the computer "a bicycle for the mind"?-- and driven to prove himself as a clear-thinking Silicon Valley capitalist.
Jobs punches the elevator button to the fourth floor, where his small office is located. For a man who is as responsible as anyone for the wonder and chaos of Silicon Valley, Jobs' view of it all is surprisingly modest: shrubby treetops extending out toward San Francisco Bay, the distant whoosh of the freeway below.
There is nothing modest, however, about Apple's recent accomplishments. In the past few months, Jobs' company has rolled out the PowerMac G5, arguably the fastest desktop computer on the planet; has redesigned the Powerbook and iBook laptops; and introduced Panther, a significant upgrade of the OS X operating system. But Jobs' biggest move, and certainly the one closest to his heart, has been Apple's plunge into the digital-music revolution. It began two years ago, with the introduction of the iPod portable music player, which may be the only piece of Silicon Valley hardware that has ever come close to matching the lust factor of the original Macintosh. Then, in April of this year, Apple introduced its digital jukebox, the iTunes Music Store, first for the Mac, and then, in October, for Windows. The result: 20 million tracks downloaded, close to a million and a half iPods sold, aggressive deals with AOL and Pepsi, and lots of good PR for Apple as the savior of the desperately fucked-up music industry.
Still, Jobs' bet on digital music is a hugely risky move in many ways, not only because powerhouses such as Dell and Wal-Mart are gunning for Apple (and Microsoft will be soon, as well), but because success may depend on how well Jobs, a forty-eight-year-old billionaire, is able to understand and respond to the fickle music-listening habits of eighteen-year-olds in their college dorms.
Do you see any parallel between the music revolution today and the PC revolution in 1984?
Obviously, the biggest difference is that this time we're on Windows. Other than that, I'm not so sure. It's still very early in the music revolution. Remember, there are 10 billion songs that are distributed in the U.S. every year -- legally -- on CDs. So far on iTunes, we've distributed about 16 million [as of October]. So we're at the very beginning of this.
Bringing iTunes to Windows was obviously a bold move. Did you do much hand-wringing over it?
I don't know what hand-wringing is. We did a lot of thinking about it. The biggest risk was that we saw people buying Macs just to get their hands on iPods. Taking iPods to Windows - that was the big decision. We knew once we did that that we were going to go all the way. I'm sure we're losing some Mac sales, but half our sales of iPods are to the Windows world already.
How did the record companies react when you approached them about getting onboard with Apple?
There are a lot of smart people at the music companies. The problem is they're not technology people. The good music companies do an amazing thing. They have people who can pick the person who's gonna be successful out of 5,000 candidates. It's an intuitive process. And the best music companies know how to do that with a reasonably high success rate.
I think that's a good thing. The world needs more smart editorial these days. The problem is that that has nothing to do with technology. When the Internet came along and Napster came alo
Microsoft has been reasonably successful in forcing a subscription model on their customers, in the form of "Software Assurance". So has the cable TV industry. If you have a monopoly, you can do it.
In order to guarantee revenue from a subscription based method, the service has to insure you'll stay. The only real way to do this is by making your downloaded music tied to your subscription. If your subscription goes away, so does your music. After all, what is to prevent someone with a big pipe from paying for one month and downloading the entire library and leaving? Because of this, these services are MORE restrictive than iTunes.
iTunes' pricing scheme is $1 for a track or $10 for an album. That is cheap. That's what CDs should be priced at. I praise the prices of iTunes because it offers a reasonable price.
Customers don't always have to be ripped off. But the companies don't have to be ripped off either. Your idea doesn't work and there have been many failed services to prove it. What needs to happen is a happy compromise between the record companies and the consumer. The consumers need to get music for a reasonable price, but the record labels and artists need to get a fair profit. I believe iTunes is as close to this happy medium as we'll get.
This service is right in line with my interests and desires. I am happy to download a few tunes a month for 3 bucks or so, which is exactly what I do. I like browsing, and the "featured artist" music videos are great (Just watched Missey Elliott's "Work it").
I think that this model is perfect for the vast majority of people.
There's one hitch that's not often talked about, though. It is that the "share music locally" doesn't work with purchased music. So, the CDs I've bought can be shared on my LAN, but my legally "purchased" music can't (unless I authorize those computers to play my stuff).
I don't think that this makes any sense from any angle, except a bit of buckling to RIAA et. al. If I can share what I bought on physical media, why can't I share what I bought digitally. Of course, one of the things I most want to share is new tunes I've grabbed, and I don't want to go around authorizing/deauthorizing my colleauges' machines. Hopefully, they'll find a way to enable sharing of ITMS purchases in the future.
(re: Microsoft's designs on entering the music world)
"And Apple is in a pretty interesting position. Because, as you may know, almost every song and CD is made on a Mac -- it's recorded on a Mac, it's mixed on a Mac, the artwork's done on a Mac. Almost every artist I've met has an iPod, and most of the music execs now have iPods."
And this affects what system the music gets played on in what way? Most american homes are made from Canadian lumber, but that doesn't make me more likely to want to become a Canadian. I suppose it's nice self-back-scratching.
And, of course, most of those top music execs probably got their iPods for free during the negotiations. Heck, if I knew somebody who didn't have a PC or email in 2001, I sure as heck wouldn't try to get them to use a 2 year old Archos jukebox!
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
How about movies? Do you see an iTunes movie store?
"We don't think that's what people want. A movie takes forever to download -- there's no instant gratification."
Right now, on a good cable connection, it takes about 30-45 minutes to download a good quality mpeg4 version movie (at 700Kbs). Cable can easily increase its bandwidth over time (not so easy with DSL), so that time interval will be decreasing. As more and more people have access to faster and faster connectivity, Jobs statement will become meaningless (as it already has for the fastest cable users). The quality of the movies will increase as well, to fill the available bandwidth.
The movie studios should NOT make the same mistakes that the music industry did. They should start offering legitimate good quality legal downloads NOW, before too many people start thinking about movies the way they do mp3s.
Can You Say Linux? I Knew That You Could.
"Our position from the beginning has been that eighty percent of the people stealing music online don't really want to be thieves. But that is such a compelling way to get music. It's instant gratification. You don't have to go to the record store; the music's already digitized, so you don't have to rip the CD. It's so compelling that people are willing to become thieves to do it. But to tell them that they should stop being thieves -- without a legal alternative that offers those same benefits -- rings hollow. We said, "We don't see how you convince people to stop being thieves unless you can offer them a carrot -- not just a stick." And the carrot is: We're gonna offer you a better experience . . . and it's only gonna cost you a dollar a song. "
This man Understands.
...the interesting question that Jobs sidesteps here is, "In a world where music is increasingly downloaded, why do we need the traditional record companies at all?"
Why not just have Apple (or any online service) provide recording studio time and some advertising?
Jobs doesn't answer this because there is no answer. He hints at it, by saying that pretty soon the record companies won't be able to offer advances and survive (in which case, they are useless to the artist), but in general the best he can come up with for the record company's purpose is that "they pick winners." Hogwash.
1. He goes on to say that they lose money because they also pick losers, and
2. we all know as their audience that winners are not just picked, they are made. I mean, sure, record companies pick some winners -- because by definition, to be a winner you need a major label. They're serving as gatekeepers on the success of equally talented, but unsigned, artists, due to limits on advertising budgets and the disposable income of the music-buying public. What do they do for their artists? Record companies provide an advance, they provide tons of advertising and payola, and they skim off the top. That's it.
So the key to making iTunes, or any online service, popular with the Napster generation is simply this: guarantee us that the money isn't going to some crap record company, but instead to the artists we appreciate and love (and some to provide expenses and a reasonable profit, maybe 5%, to the new, more effective distribution system). Bottom line. Do that and we'll buy. Until then, screw it.
Freedom isn't free; its price is the well-being of others.
Apple allows you to preview for 30 seconds most, if not all, songs before you buy.
On the "Rip, Mix, Burn" campaign, Jobs said:,
The person who assailed us over it was Michael Eisner. But he didn't have any teenage kids living at home, and he didn't have any teenage kids working at Disney whom he talked to, so he thought "rip" meant "rip off." And when somebody actually clued him in to what it meant, he did apologize.
You know, that says so much about Disney and their current state of affairs.
Who said Freedom was Fair?
I say, support the artists you like any way you can. If you like a bunch of songs on an album, buy it. See them live when they come to your town. But don't shed a tear when the labels cry about their profit margins shrinking from 20% to 15%. I also don't think they're going away anytime soon, precisely because of their massive margins (but I don't know what they really are because they've hidden their profits so well). However, I do think there is hope from a new generation of internet-based labels, like CD Baby, who are willing to treat artists fairly (gasp! what a concept!). I'm eager to see how this plays out. I hope Jobs will allow smaller labels (like the one I'd like to start in my bedroom) onto iTunes. This will piss of the majors, but...who gives a fuck about them? They've been screwing over artists and consumers for years. Viva la revolution!
Electric Monkey Pants
>Add to that I live in canada, so I can't purchase music with these services (yes I tried).
Don't worry about it then. In Canada you can just copy your neighbours CD collection. Don't forget to let the RIAA know you're exercising your rights.
Have fun!
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Many probably recall the guy who put his I-tunes track on E-bay and will remember that it was cancelled because of an E-Bay policy, not an I-tunes policy.
This is a very important issue here because it blurs the line between Right of First Sale and Fair Use. While it's unlikely that right of First Sale can be sidestepped, how is it going to be possible to convince people who eventually will want to swap their legally purchased products from getting a bit of their money back in a legitimate re-sale. This is a great re-sale market from the buyers perspective because you can be sure the quality is top notch even after many sales. You just have to trust that people won't keep a copy in an open format when they make the sale. I'd say the whole premise is weak.
And yes, I do know that there are people of the opinion that Right of First Sale cannot apply in digital distribution, but if you look at the arguments that have been presented, the weak link is usually the part where they try to define copy and mangle the technical facts of how digital media is played in various digitial devices. There is no blanket defintion of copy that can cover all cases unless you use a naive definition of terms like RAM. That may convince non-technical people, but under closer scrutiny I've never seen a solid definition that worked across serval commonly available digital music players.
Ever heard about iRATE?
Free, legal music downloads... it's even tuned to your taste! And yes, it does run on linux (and on Windows, and on MacOSX).
OK, maybe the interface isn't so sexy as iTune's... but it's still worth a try, imho. It worked great for me :)
My journal. Mainly about freedom.
But just for moderators to mod me up Funny like the parent post.
getSexySig();
Observation: Ever looked in the $5.88 DVD bargain bin at Wal-Mart?
Observation: A DVD of a movie typically sells for about the same price as a CD of the movie's soundtrack.
Explanation: DVD Video titles in general are so cheap because the movies fixed therein have already had a theatrical run. CDs don't have anything analogous.
Explanation 2: CDs are rather expensive because the retail price does not have to compete with rentals thanks to the Record Rental Amendment of 1984, which states that no person shall rent, lease, or lend a phonorecord[1] of a copyrighted sound recording without the consent of both the owner of copyright in the sound recording and the owner of copyright in the underlying musical work. In practice, such copyright owners never grant consent for a shop to rent CDs on the scale that a local DVD rental store rents DVDs.
David Bowie predicted that, because of the Internet and piracy, copyright is going to be dead in ten years. Do you agree?
No. If copyright dies, if patents die, if the protection of intellectual property is eroded, then people will stop investing. That hurts everyone. People need to have the incentive so that if they invest and succeed, they can make a fair profit. Bullshit. Look at the Open Source movement.
...Well, who pays for the ones that are the losers?...
..The winners pay...
Hopefully not. I've never signed a contract that would allow the record label to withhold my earnings until they had made a profit on *all* of their artists. There is usually a clause in the contract that allows them to withhold a 15-20% reserve, which they always do. This reserve is meant to be held against *your* sales gross, not the sales of the entire record company. Most smaller labels track all their numbers on a per artist/per release basis. Bigger labels are dealing with much lower profit margins and lots more money up front, so they probably have a completely different way of doing the books. Artists and their managers need to take a better look at their label's contracts. I would not sign anything that would keep me from earning money because the label was doing badly with other artists. If they did withold it, I would expect to get it back once the label was able to pay it.
TallGreen CMS hosting
The problem is there isn't enough new stuff every month to justify the subscription model. There has to be an incentive for keeping the subscription, else why wouldn't I just burn everything I wanted and cancel, wait six months, subscribe for one month and burn everything, ad infinitum.
I mean, the way the music industry has always solved the lack of content problem is to release a few tracks from each album slowly, over a few weeks, then release some more album tracks from groups in the same genre.
That seems to be the antithesis of the instant gratification model that iTunes offers, which is essentially what the info age is all about. The entertainment industry in general seems to have a ton of people who are very good at doing what has been done, but very few (none at all?) visionaries.
It's nothing but crumpled porno and Ayn Rand.
My house is a Klein bottle. I have to sleep in my car.
My amazing wife - Artist, Author, Philosopher - Laurie M
Here we are ... discussing an article that's published in a magazine, and also available online for free ... yet thousands of people still subscribe to "Rolling Stone". Maybe if the music industry could figure out how both worlds could possibly exist ... a free version and a paid version of the exact same content ... they'd be able to survive in the future.
I tried subscrition based music purchases. And they don't really work that well. Emusic tried to make a go at it, but never managed to get much content that I actually wanted to buy. I found myself downloading crap I only half liked bacause I didn't want my subscription fee for that particular month to go to waste.
The thing I've noticed about iTMS is that I have purchased a lot of music that I actually like. Because I have to pay per song I'm pickier about what I download and I don't feel any preasure to download X number of songs in a month just to feel like I got my monies worth.
Subscription is great if the source has a lot of stuff you like and you don't have much of an established collection.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
buy from those who DO
The problem here is that those who do NOT have a lock on the media of promotion to those people inside moving vehicles and those people inside retail establishments. When was the last time you heard a commercial FM radio station play more than 5 percent of non-major-label music? Not every city has enough free space in its FM band to let the local community college start an FM radio station. (I live in one of the unlucky cities.)
or DO IT YOURSELF
Are you sure this is feasible? Though it's rather easy now for any songwriter to produce a rough recording of his song using Modplug Tracker, most people cannot afford formal training in songwriting.
"And Apple is in a pretty interesting position. Because, as you may know, almost every song and CD is made on a Mac -- it's recorded on a Mac, it's mixed on a Mac, the artwork's done on a Mac. Almost every artist I've met has an iPod, and most of the music execs now have iPods."
And this affects what system the music gets played on in what way?
Let's read the next sentence together, shall we?
" And one of the reasons Apple was able to do what we have done was because we are perceived by the music industry as the most creative technology company."
Hmm, interesting, the next sentence nullifies your entire post. Well, next time, read to the end of the paragraph.
From the article:
I was listening to the Mike Reagan show around Thanksgiving time, and apparently the Pilgrims went through the same phase. Their original charter stated that each family would be given a plot of land to farm, from which all crops would be put in a community store. Everyone would get a equal share of crop.
The plan failed misserably. There was no incentive to work hard. Its the same reason the Communism lost the cold war. There's no point in working harder if the fruits of your labor are taken away by the state.
So, the Pilgrims threw away the old charter and wrote a new one. Rather than having to surrender all to the community store, families kept their crops. Those that worked hard during the growing season got to eat during the winter. Those that didn't, died. Incentive spurned the surplus we know as Thanksgiving.
As Steve Jobs has forseen, the record companies can do the same thing. I suppose the losers are the musicians who don't make it. But why should we feel bad for the leetches of society?
"Dying tickles!" -- Ralph Wiggum
" Why not offer something for $20/month that lets you download all the music you want"
I'm doing that more or less right now. It's called Rhapsody. I'm paying $10 a month and I can play any of their 300,000 songs whenever I want. For $1, I can burn a song to disc.
There are a few cons to it, though:
- I can't keep the music I download. If I unsubscribe, I cannot play the music anymore.
- It uses a custom client. Linux users need not apply.
- Not every song is available for purchase, but on the plus side at least I can listen to it.
- I *must* be on-line to listen to the music.
- No uploading to your music player, unless ya burn the CD and re-encode it. Ouch.
Those negatives sound bad, right? So why do I do it?
- $10 a month is less than one-album a month. No more CD purchases for me.
- The search engine's great. I'm able to find just about any song that intrigues me, and have it playing within moments. It's pretty good at helping me find other music I might like as well. It has everything neatly cross-referenced. "If you like Prodigy, you might like Chemical Brothers", etc.
- The internet thing kind of sucks (no taking my music on the road), but most of my 16 waking hours are nearby a net connection. I have wireless set up at home so it is not often that I find myself unable to listen to the music.
- Fast fast fast. It's not streaming in the RealPlayer sense. It starts downloading into a cache, and once a few blocks are down it starts playing. Rhapsody, by default, sets up a 1 gig cache to store the music in. So unless you have a LOT of songs on your playlist, they don't disappear. So it's not like you have to have broadband to listen to the music. (Though it helps for the initial download.)
It sounds like this might be the service you're looking for. I can tell you I'm happy with it. If I unsubscribe, I'm really going to miss it. You may find yourself in the same situation. If you go to www.listen.com you can try it free for a week.
Cheers
"Derp de derp."
It seems like in several cases he's dodging the question...or perhaps just doesn't understand it. for instance:
There's always been a legal alternative to stealing music; buying it. This applies whether it's a tape, cdr, or mp3. What IS the difference to the single person? How does this answear the question in any form at all?
-Chris
--an unbreakable toy is useful for breaking other toys--
The winners pay. The winners pay for the losers, and the winners are not seeing rewards commensurate with their success. And they get upset. So what's the remedy? The remedy is to stop paying advances. The remedy is to go to a gross-revenues deal and tell an artist, "We'll give you twenty cents on every dollar we get, but we're not gonna give you an advance. The accounting will be simple: We're gonna pay you not on profits -- we're gonna pay you off revenues. It's very simple: The more successful you are, the more you'll earn. But if you're not successful, you will not earn a dime. We'll go ahead and risk some marketing money on you. But if you're not successful, you'll make no money. If you are, you'll make a lot more money." That's the way out. That's the way the rest of the world works.
So you see the recording industry moving in that direction?
No. I said I think that's the remedy. Whether the patient will swallow the medicine is another question.
How feasible is this? Are production costs reasonable enough that creating a record without an advance is possible?
One problem with this, a human eye only "refresh" its neurons roughly 20 times a second, therefore occasional flashes of dots wouldn't register. However, a human ear can refresh itself up to 20,000 a second (the reason why most people's upper hearing frequency is 20,000 hertz), any slight variation in the sound track will be detected by someone who had listen to music enought times.
In US, you can easily buy enough major firearms to wipe out your neighbourhood but a few little fireworks are banned.
Oh, come on moderators...
If I had mod points, I'd mod this parent Funny.
An "all you can eat buffet" works as a business concept, because everybody eats dinner once per evening, and they almost everybody eats 1 - 3 plate loads of food.
Most music consumers are broken into two groups: Those who only buy about one album a month or less, for whom the subscription model is not worth the money, and those who would be downloading music several hours each week, off whom you would not be making a profit.
So, the customers who you do get, you get at a loss, and nobody else will sign up for your service. Not really a situation that lends itself to profit, is it?
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
The flashes of dots certainly do register, they were quite noticable at a couple of points during Matrix Revolutions for instance. I wouldn't say they spoilt the film but they were certainly visible.
Of course dots for a second in a 1 and a half hour film aren't too much of an annoyance, but a blip in a 3min music track would be very annoying.
I love how it takes a team of top academics to rediscover one of the primary design objectives of a digital computer: To make perfect copies of bits
I've read various Steve Jobs interviews and articles over the years and from what I gather, he tries to stay pretty current with computer and communication technology in general, not just the products his current companies churns out. He installed a T1 to his house around 1990 not only to link his personal computers to the NeXT network, but also to allow him to exlore the Internet with the sort of bandwidth the average user would have sometime in the future. A recent article mentioned he upgraded his connection towards the end of the 90s to something even more insane (I don't recall if it was a T3 or OC3) so he could experiment with video conferencing, file transfers, and other "next generation" Internet usage.
As far as Kazaa, I'm almost certain he's used it. Jobs is known to have a few PCs sitting around, some for Windows and some for NeXTSTEP/OpenStep.
It's also been said that Safari (Apple's Konq-based web browser for OS X) was originally a direct demand from Jobs when OmniWeb could no longer render the websites he was visiting.
There was an interview a couple years ago in which he talked about shopping around for some sort of crazy new hightech washing machine (a year or so before the Maytag Neptune came out).
Jobs may be an asshole, and he may not be a hardcore analog electrical engineer, but he seems to be quite the techie... a techie with style. NeXT and the Apple of 2003 display this quite well.
Now if only they would make a brushed aluminum version of the 17" widescreen lcd iMac...
We all have a mental list of talented and creative people we wish success to -- singers or bands we think should be recognized, actors we'd like to see in a series or a leading role, authors whose books we eagerly recommend to others and sometimes buy extra copies just to give away. I've given people money to support hopeless film projects because I think they're talented, and bought books no one else will ever read because I want the writer to keep writing.
We used to have formal systems for patronage, which provided financial support and promotion to individuals with talent or potential. What modern systems have taken the place of patronage? Are they better or worse at promoting the people "we wish success to"?
How can technology be used to promote people 'worthy' of patronage? We have various forms of word of mouth (e.g. blogrolling, recommended reading lists, etc.) but that doesn't seem like much help when you see cream that isn't rising to the top.
There should be a word for this.
McMe
Now I know how upstanding people will get all fired up how doing something out of mere convenience is immoral. To which I will answer that this is precisely why you are not Steve Jobs. The man see the market for something, and is interested legitimizing the activity. Like it or not, downloading music was, in 1999, morally ambiguous. Steve Jobs acknowledges this, and seeks to make it legally possible in 2003 for this convenience, becuase quite clearly, this is the way forward for a music distribution system.
Does reasoning morally impede the ability to reason with foresight. This is holding you back from improving, or supporting the improvement of the state of the world to one where both the consumer and the producer of the content can be satisfied?
And the carrot is: We're gonna offer you a better experience . . . and it's only gonna cost you a dollar a song.
So: Tom Waits "Rain Dogs" = $19; Bob Dylan "Infidels" = $9; Philip Glass "Music in 12 Parts" (3 CDs) = $12? Where are they going with that bologna? Are the Boredoms or other experimental artists going to sell any of their extra-long tracks or one-track albums for just $1? Are artists going to be forced to ditch the 'album' experience and focus on hovering a saleable image over a bunch of disconnected songs?
Does commercialism or commercial break cause ADHD?
Another funny thing: a lot of the insistance that we pay to share data that appears to be somebody's music is based on the idea of 'intellectual property' and this unproven (untested) theory that 'intellectual property' and 'copyright' are required for the global economy to function.
Meanwhile, they still want to charge top dollar for recordings of compositions that are in the public domain. And, corporations pressure lawmakers to change the meaning of 'copyright' anyways for instance extending the lifetime of copyrights an additional few decades just because an expensive icon is about to become free.
Why the double standards? Could they be reasoning all of this over profits, not their purported ideals? It's possible. I wonder why we allow ourselves to continue to be duped by laws controlling information after seeing time and again that it does information no good.
I just think it's strange that such antisocial tendencies as 'competition' and 'private property' are being pushed on the back of such raging idealism when the idealists aren't even serious about ideology except as packaging and when said ideals are contradictory. The package is being bought despite these logical inconsistencies.
The carrot is their false ideologies and the stick is the truth that the world is ruled by violence and issues of MP3 piracy only matter to a civilization of very comfortable hogs.
Anyways its a fitting analogy; only in agricultural civilization could food become so scarce that a stuck carrot would be so tantalizing to so many.
"Stratigraphically the origin of agriculture and thermonuclear destruction will appear essentially simultaneous" -- Lee
I don't think i've ever scored a -1 rating before, so i thought I would respond to my critics.
Firstly, the EULAs, I will concentrate on Napster 2.
- They may update their EULA at any time, and will not inform you of these changes, the EULA posted on their website (the only place you can see the current version) is not dated nor marked with a revision number. So the entire document must be scanned for changes, unless you complain and uninstall within 30 days of a change, you have indicated your acceptance.
-They reserve the right to push updates to your machine, both for their software, and for any software that communicates with it (namely WMP, but could include Windows itself, and Roxio CD burner). I don't particularily want someone else patching my software thank you very much.
-They reserve the right to disable any related software if the security is tripped, this includes Napster, WMP, and possibly windows itself...
To me, thats all scary stuff individually, when you add it up, I don't think there isnt any rights I havent given them with regards to my machine, and if I havent givent them those rights yet, they can just update the EULA to give them to themselves.
I tried Napster 2 and iTunes hoping to be able to purchase music convienently online. I no longer watch stolen movies, use stolen software, or listen to stolen music. So I needed an easy way to get single songs, or albums I liked, easily. Unfortuantly, not living in the US prevents me from doing this.
And no, it isn't legal for me to copy my neighbour's CDs, even in Canada.
paul reinheimer
RIAA doesn't want to provide "value". They want to get paid for doing something which is essentially worthless--the act of copying the song to the media and distributing it to us. Hello, RIAA--we've got that one under control. You're fired; your job has been replaced by a computer.
As long as RIAA insists on getting something for nothing, there will be no foldouts, posters, 12" full-color art prints, etc.
I agree that RIAA needs to go back to their old business model. (maybe without the abusive artist contracts). Find something they can produce in quantity for a $3-5 a pop. Something that costs an individual user $20 to produce as a one-off. And charge $10.00 for it.
But in order to do that, they're going to have to let go of the idea that they can just sit back and let the money roll in.
Those days are over. Denial is the issue here. RIAA is going to start having to work for their bread. It's going to take a few bloody noses in the financial department for them to realize that.
Funny thing is--this is exactly the issue that RIAA raises when pointing fingers. "You're stealing. You want something for nothing." Point your finger, RIAA. Now, look at your hand. There's 3 fingers pointing right back at you.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, it doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
From the article:
Still, Jobs' bet on digital music is a hugely risky move in many ways, not only because powerhouses such as Dell and Wal-Mart are gunning for Apple (and Microsoft will be soon, as well), but because success may depend on how well Jobs, a forty-eight-year-old billionaire, is able to understand and respond to the fickle music-listening habits of eighteen-year-olds in their college dorms.
I don't think Apple has to worry about fickle music listeners, because there is no such thing. Tastss change to be sure but it's not like Apple is an sll-Ska store, for example.
What Apple has to do is very simple - not piss off the customers. That's it. If a store is appealing and simply does nothing bad to a customer, many many people will keep using that store as long as they do nothing to drive them away. People are more disposed to change through dissatisfaction than being drawn elsewhere.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I think the real stumbling block for subscription models lies in their selection and the usability of the downloads. If one could pay $x (10, 15, 20?) per month to the itunes music store and have the ability to download any song from the store and use it in the way one can use itms downloads now (with the exception that downloads only function as long as you're subscribed), I think the service would be very popular.
Of course popular != profitable or possible. Most people would download a lot more than they do from pay per download services - increasing the costs to the provider. Maybe some would download so much that the system would be unworkable. There are many reasons a subscription service that is otherwise similar to the itms might fail.
My point is only that the reason susbcription models don't work is not because people insist on overly fetishistic notions of ownership with respect to music. It's (probably) because the right mix of rights cannot be rented at a subscription price that people can pay.
They didn't have Messiaen, Slint, Merzbow, Captain Beefheart, Xenakis, Steve Reich, Schoenberg, Stravinksy, or, wait for it, John Cage! No fucking John Cage!
Unit 706122, please report for entertainment reprogramming. Your circuits have become damaged, and are interfering with your ability to integrate into society. Never fear, you will be listening to Brittney and watching Friends again in no time.
Hey kids, there's only 5 days left 'til Yak Shaving Day!
The iPod isn't made for someone with a fifty rack cd colection. It's made for the music collector. While I can't consider myself a full out music collector, I am a heavy consumer of music. I'll have spent a handy $7500.00 on my music collection during my life, easily. That's 7500 iTunes purchases. We can see that the numbers begin to add up.
I have 300 cd's. Not an uncommon number for a music afficianado. A co-worker of mine owns twice as much and his Music library will amount to 40-50 gigs.
iPods are not for the casual pop consumer who owns 50 cd's. Compare this to the collector who has 50 Rolling Stones cd's, and the entire pink floyd discography.
Hell I probably have more NIN material than most people have of any music.
__
Thou hast besquirted me, O leotarded one.
Schemes such as Logic Audio's XS Key, which is a usb device that does some super-stealthy encryption and dating of what are essentially security cookies, are near impossible to crack. It doesn't seem to out of the realm of possibility to see similar schemes employed for mp3's and their analogues. Isn't this what MS is trying to do w/ their new systems? Of course with mp3's, any setup that's too complicated will be rejected by music listeners outright . . . But I think a different question is, why should the record industry exist at all? Of course the mass production of CD's is one element, giving recording artists access to studios is another . . . but don't most artists make next to nothing on records, instead relying on touring !?!?!? If the record industry falls, it will become segmented into different industries which are arranged in such a way that artists are able to "freelance" around studios and production, and have more control over the sales of their music. And it will be the industry's own fault, reflecting the illogics of its own structure.
"Mathematics is the language of nature"
It's not that they don't register... it's that watching and listening are two seriously different processes, and the consumers of visual and audio content have different thresholds of acceptable interference.
You see, people are accustomed to having their visual feed interrupted for short times. We blink, we turn our heads, a man crosses in front- whatever the cause, small visual breaks don't bother us. Hollywood (mostly in years past) would happily release a movie with a dropped frame or a hair on the corner of the screen, knowing that it won't bother the audience enough to hurt sales.
But perceptual reaction to modified sounds are different. Humans never stop hearing. They don't go deaf for 2 seconds to refresh the ears; a hand in front of your head doesn't block sound. Sound is something that normally will never be disturbed- and if it is, we're bothered. So the consumer's threshold for audio modification is much lower than for visual.
--Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."
what?
You're absolutely correct that movies have become a social event: For many people, movies are where you go to sit and talk with your friends, often via cellphone. If theater operators have turned up the sound, it's so the handful of people who actually want to watch the movie can perhaps still do so.
If you don't like the movie-going experience, blame the moviegoers.
-Graham
Jobs' comment that "a legal alternative to stealing music hadn't been invented until six months ago" takes "arguable" to new heights.
Despite the nose bleed, this article taught me something: the secret of Jobs' marketing genius is to equate instant gratification to a constitutional entitlement.
First he names the company after something you stick in your mouth, and twenty years later he is still trying to compel people to lick the visuals. It's a view of the American constitution through an infant psyche.
This from a guy who got started stealing long distance service and reselling it on the Berkeley campus.
You've come a long way, baby.
Da Blog
If you don't mind slumming it, most of the 2nd run theaters show month old movies for about $3 with maybe 3 or 4 trailers and no commercials. You won't impress a date by taking her there, but then again, how many movies this year were good enough to be worth the $9 full price ticket.
...that if an elderly educated person said that something in his realm of expertise could be done, he was almost always correct. If an elderly educated person said that something in his area of expertise could not be done, he would most likely be wrong.
Wrong again, RIAA!! HA!
1) the "right" to rent a work, etc. under your terms is not a physical or inherent right as is property (which is explicitly given such status in the US Constitution) - it is a licence, more analogous to software under EULA than land or physical property. Thus your legal position is incorrect. (see other posts on this thread).
2) the fact that you don't like something or feel that it should be more disliked that it currently is does not justify intentional obfuscation. Copyright infringement is not theft, both in the eyes of the law (previous SC decisions and the Constitution) and morally. It is wrong and prosecutable, but nonequivalent. (considering the ransom the RIAA is attempting to extract for copyright infringement versus the potential civil and criminal penalties for the theft of physical CDs, the RIAA doesn't view theft and copyright infringement them as identical, either.)
I could call copyright infringement "mass murder" but that commits two sins at once. One, a word with a precise legal meaning is intentionally confused with another - thus if repeated, neither word means what it did before. Speakers can't be sure what either term means, and so both terms lose the ability to express ideas that is their purpose. Two, the moral implications of mass murder are diluted by conflating it with copyright infringement; legitimate uses of the term lose their moral force in speech where they should possess such force.
Eggs are not chickens, no matter what I call them. Theft and copyright infringement are legal terms with independent legal realities, like a chicken and an egg. Choosing to call one the other doesn't prove that they are the same, only that the speaker either doesn't know or doesn't care about the law. The fact that copyright infringement is wrong and that the potential consequences are bad and likely harmful does not change its legal status.
3) copyright entitles both the users (via rights codified in law or requiring specific denial in law) and the providers. If I purchase a DRM CD, the rights given to me by copyright law are infringed - the terms of the copyrights are violated. In both cases, the users and the artist are deprived of the license to use a work as they see fit, rights in both cases given by law. Respect for copyrights requires that the people whose use them for profit should start by respecting them themselves. Linguisitic legerdemain or name-calling will not change reality - when the industries dispect their customers and the law that protects them while emphasizing and demonizing violations of the law by others and aggrandizing its defense of their actions, people will return the dispect in kind.
Copyright infringement is neither good in and of itself nor a good way of achieving the respect of copyright owners for the rights of their users, but according a moral status (theft) to it which the people who use copyrights are unwilling to accord it themselves (by altering copyright limitations with DRM and other schemes to limit legally given rights to use) is intellectually dishonest and ultimately counterproductive to the rights you hope to preserve.
Does the music industry serve to find the 'successes' among the rubbish out there?
The argument holds up, if we ignore one gigantic, gargantuan, glaring fact: the music industry has a monopoly.
So, is it that they find, like so many diamonds in the rough, the better acts, or would the more accurate portrayal be that they, being the only means of distribution, exploit the best talent? The monopoly makes the answer impossible to determine, since there is no free market going on in music.
The same is true of the moral argument around file sharing. People who protect the current system seem to forget that they're protecting an arguably illegal cartel that inarguably price-gouges them. That the music industry has a monopoly and abuses it, again, clouds the whole issue.
Underneath the clouds, I think the real problem the music industry faces is life without a monopoly. Their abuse of the consumer has caused an alternative means of distribution to crop up that seems impervious to the laws that the industry has, in the past, been able to bend to its will. They had a unique thing - a guarantee of revenue. What a business! But now it's evaporating, and they'll have to actually compete for their food, like the rest of us.
Jobs probably doesn't have it wrong; he's just politicing. He has to, now that he's in bed with the music guys.