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Small Form Factor Comparison Matrix
Giggles Of Doom writes "With small form factor PCs, such as the Shuttle XPC line, becoming all the rage these days for office and gamer use, it can be a daunting task to find the model that is right for you. With more and more manufacturers getting on the SFF bandwagon, the selection is growing rapidly. How do you compare each one? You could spend hours combing manufacturer sites and reviews, or you could be thankful that someone has done all the work for you already! The Small Form Factor Comparison Matrix is just that, a chart listing over 30 of the most popular SFF boxes, their features, and price. Sort by any field, and limit your search to things like "Pentium 4 Only" or "Under $200 Only." If you're looking into getting a SFF box, this is the place to start." (Sudhian Media and mini-itx.com are also good sources for information on small PCs.)
Cache is here: http://tinyurl.com/z74a
Works fine for me.
Does anyone know of a small dual-CPU capable motherboard?
Something like a micro-ATX form factor but with multiple CPU's would be great.
Hey Shuttle, how about a flex-ATX system with dual Xeons, Opterons, or similar?
small form factor will raise the importance of un highly undervaluated aspect: noise
when you sit just beside your pc you soon start striving for finding a noiseless pc (that mostly mean a fanless pc)
Nevermind. Mozilla was giving me a server not found, but now it works. Guess I just had to click on the link 15 times. Or maybe it's just me.
There's no column for noise. I know some people who have Shuttle XPCs. Whenever I see them I think "Wow, how cute and practical!" Then they turn it on. WHOOOOOOOOOSH like a jet turbine.
I have a positive modifier on Troll. When I mod someone Troll their karma should go UP!
The IDEQ has nicely situation USB ports (2 in the front, and 2 or more in the rear - I don't even remember, more than I need). SP/DIF optical audio out, firewire out, again ports in front and rear. Everything you need is integrated, ethernet, pretty decent audio, even dual head-capable GeForce 4MX (I have an AGP GeForce4 Ti4200 card in here myself, since I do some real 3D work, and some gaming).
It's worth giving a thought to. Will you really miss all that other stuff? If you live in a city apartment where your floor space costs hundreds of dollars a square foot like I do, and your desk size is limited by your small apartment, going SFF is definitely worth consideration. If you have a big house, lotsa room, or need to swap in and out hard drives and are the kinda person who leaves your case open for easy access, then it's probably the wrong move, since it's quite crowded in a little SFF case.
So where do you get mini-ITX boards now that Newegg doesn't carry them?
I thank the site for their good work.
My future SFF will go in a den where I want to keep the noise level down. Too bad there isn't a sound rating on these boxes. I do hear the shuttles are pretty quiet if you use a quiet HD and video card.
Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
is small form factor. Yet the whole chart gives no indication of size. Just features. If one is to say, find the smallest case, one must click on the detail matrix to drill down. A timely task At least replace one category for a one look size comparison, perhaps the number of floppy bays can go, as this is down on my list of 'must have' case design.
In post Patriot Act America, the library books scan you.
Here are other sites offering Small Form Factor listings:
SSF at HardwareCentral.
Shuttle PCs at PCs For Everyone.
And just in case you don't know, here this guy explains what a Small Form Factor PC is.
"With small form factor PCs, such as the Shuttle XPC line, becoming all the rage these days for office and gamer use"
I got to LAN parties, work in IT, and I don't see anyone looking for smaller form fctors for gaming.
Bringing a full size ATX tower to a LAN party just ins't that hard. Maybe if you're trying to take it on an airplane I could see the need. But otherwise, with all the heat and the size of video cards, I don't see small form factor being the rage in gaming. In fact I see the opposite. People wanting lots of room in their case.
I dont go to big name contests or national LAN parties, so maybe I've just lost touch.
The Matrix shows a number for USB ports, but it needs to break down which devices have USB 1.1 and which have USB 2. This is extremely important, since you're not likely to have the space to add a USB 2 card.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
Waiting for that nano-ITX board, for even-smaller-form-factor...
I hereby place the above post in the public domain.
Anyone know much of the non x86 small machines or boards? I know of pegasosppc and their micro-ATX boards, and an upcoming (hopefully) AmigaOne that's a full G3 or G4 Mini-ITX board, and rumours of ARM Mini-ITX.
Any PPC Mini-ITX boards that won't be lumbered with Amiga licensing fees?
All those boxes I've seen lately are just like the original(?) Shuttle cube. I don't call this a big selection, even if the innards are different. :-P)
I'm still looking for something in the form of a slim rectangle (think of the shape, and colour, of the monolith from 2001).
With mini-itx and slimline dvd players that should be possible.
(and yes, I can't build it myself.
home
Seems someone has not been doing their homework properly. Can't be an accurate matrix with products missing :(
For those who are curious curious.
OpenBrick Website
Rooster - A friend. "Anyone's friend in particular or just generally well disposed to people?"
I would like some desktop motherbords that supports the mobile cpus from intel and amd. Prefably with olny a large heatsink. Does anyone know if there are any makers of those?
To be really useful, this matrix needs a lot of additional information. I was looking a a small form factor case at tiger a couple of weeks ago, and there were a number of suprises you wouldn't realize just by looking at a chart. For example, while the tiger box has a PCI slot and an AGP slot, the positions were reversed. That maters, if you had intended to use a Nvidia card with the fan that takes up the PCI space (wouldn't work in this space). However, the tiger box did have an option (availability unknown) for a printer port connector, which is not mentioned here. And while everyone seems to be doing 6 channel audio (I find that hard to believe for these small boxes) I would like to know if any have game connectors, which have a serial connector, if the keyboard and mouse must be USB, and if any have a DVI connector for a LCD or if all just use an old VGA connector.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
Is it just me, or does anyone else see this big/small debate in terms of perceived penis size?
Look at the Samsung 2410 board.
http://us.shuttle.com/specs2.asp?pro_id=264
i have one.
The hard drive (Maxtor 4G160J8) is louder than the PC. And you can barely hear the hard drive.
The heatpipe, massive heatsink, and temperature controlled fan help a lot.
It WHOOOOOSHes for about 3 seconds when you power it on, as the hardware is initialized. Then it goes totally and completely silent as linux boots, and stays silent during heavy use.
Shrug.
I have an EPIA 800 mini-itx machine with all the fans removed. It doesn't get hot because it's only used as an X thin client. My laptop also netboots if it is plugged into the network and stops all fans and drives.
Whilst in use, both systems emit a not-insignificant amount of noise from (I believe) their ethernet chips. I.E. when something happens on the screen, the network traffic seems to cause a burst of white noise.
Does anyone know if it is possible to have a silent ethernet adapter and if so which ones are quieter?
- Brian
I see a computer:
Biostar iDEQ 200V $189 Athlon XP 333 333
It says it can take an AGP 8 card. So its good for gaming.
What speed is it, relative to mhz? Because if its over 1ghz speed, thats all you need to game.
God spoke to me
They seem to solve a lot of problems that conventional systems are plagued with. Cooling a large box, noise generated by the cooling systems, space used by the server sitting under your desk. I was originally looking at rack mount systems but these Small Form Factor PC's have the added advantage of portability. Perfect for LAN Parties.
In addition they retain standard PC components, so you are not thrust into the expensive world of laptop computing. I did that for a while and got tired of paying double for everything.
Howver, currently I have the server under the desk. The major problem is the storage space of these boxes but if I can find an external storage system that suits, I am definitely going small form factor.
psxndc
The emacs religion: to be saved, control excess.
I'm looking for a motherboard in that size, but noone seems to sell those. Sure, I could buy a case, but it would be like buying a Ford Ka just to get your hands on the engine. Any ideas as to where one can get them?
We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
I find it somewhat strange that a page about Small Form Factor PCs has no information on the DIMENSIONS!
Because now the site's slashdotted, you insensitive clod!
-insert a witty something-
the older sv24 was indeed like a 747 on approach.
i have an SB51G that is very quiet, and i recently
got an SB65G2 that is also very quiet, altho i haven't had it fired up much, yet.
the heat-pipe tech thing uses a single fan for the
case and CPU, and seems to work rather well, at
least for me.
i have been very happy with them and would recommend
them.
I have plenty of common sense, I just choose to ignore it. -- Calvin
There are ways to cut down noise without relying solely on passive or liquid cooling. Lots of low noise PSs and fans are available (and not that expensive). Even replacing a worn/cheap cpu fan can make a lot of difference. Unfortunately, case and system vendors mostly don't pay much attention to these details, so you pretty much have to retrofit.
You're close, I'm 25. And oddly enough they aren't just giving me bandwidth for free. But if you want to use the site to save yourself time choosing a box, then consider that time savings to be worthless, feel free not to donate. If, on the other hand, it helps you find a box you like with minimal fuss and hassle and are feeling generous, feel free to chip in a buck for hosting costs, pizza costs, etc.
Plus, I felt the donation system would be a lot nicer then ads.
"A coward dies a thousand deaths, the brave but one."
i've seen on Intel's site a MB designated D865PESO
but i haven't seen it for sale anywhere. am i missing something?
I have plenty of common sense, I just choose to ignore it. -- Calvin
An error occured while loading http://sff.redlightning.net/:
Timeout on server
Connection was to sff.redlightning.net at port 80
Must be a matrix of 0,0 then.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
So which model SFF PC is their server? ;-)
Karma: Excellent (In Soviet Russia, karma pimps YOU)
Thanks 'Infinate', that was really helpful.
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
"Silent" would mean no noise. A PC can be silent when the hard disk is spun down and all of its fans are stopped and nothing else in it is making any noise. You probably just meant "quiet."
I remember being in a terminal room at usenix many years ago which was full of Network Computing Devices X terminals, which were silent (diskless, fanless, no other parts moving or otherwise making sound). It was like being in a library. By far, the loudest remaining sound was the keystrokes from everyone typing.
I like silent (as opposed to quiet), PC's, although I've only used them in practice as thin clients.
When I see a vendor using the term "silent" to refer to a PC that is merely quiet, I consider that vendor to be a liar, and I generally can't trust them enough to be willing to do buy from them.
I also buy a lot of quiet hardware, like big slow fans, aluminum cases so I can disconnect more fans and so on, but I try never to buy from vendors that call these things "silent."
Buy a commodity dell optiplex gx270 in SFF or even USFF (which mounts behind a flatscreen). As you expect with dell: very good engineering, always leading features and options, great support, etc. Buy from dell outlet and you get a reconditioned box (a couple of months old) still with complete warranty and couple of hundred dollar discount to the off-the-floor price. (Kind of equivalent to buying a car that's only 3 months old).
They're being promoted to gamers for LAN parties, not utilitarian type As who would be just as well off integrating the ITX components into old printer casings or walls.
I have nothing against SFFs just like I have nothing against G-string bikinis. But when I'm told I should use a G-string bikini for SCUBA meets, because it's smaller, easier to manage than a wetsuit and (most importantly) en vogue, I will cry out "stupidity" every time.
/.ed. Google Cache here.
-- Every time you kill a kitten, God masturbates.
CPUs commonly generate heat, especially running at high frequencies. A SFF would not be able to dissipate the heat.
There's also the issue of the motherboard getting too hot.
SP/DIF optical audio out, firewire out, again ports in front and rear.
:P
I would hope that the firewire is bidirectional
If you live in a city apartment where your floor space costs hundreds of dollars a square foot like I do...
Wait a minute, hundreds (plural!) of dollars per sqft? Do you rent out your broom closet for $400?
Anyone have experience with the SX270 noise levels, P4 vs. Celeron fex.
TIA.
Unable to read configuration file '/bigassraid/htdig//conf/14229.conf'
Geocrawler error message.
I'd like to have a small silent box on
.07 setlinewidth .5 setgray/c{arc clip fill
my desk that can drive an lcd display the
way it was meant: digitally. Unfortunately,
VIA's epia boards do not provide DVI output.
This leaves the Hush Technologies fanless
ATX box with PCI graphics as the next best
solution, but at nearly $2000, it's not exactly
a bargain.
Does anyone know of any cheaper solutions?
regards,
%!PS % -John Tromp (http://www.cwi.nl/~tromp/)
42 42 scale 7 9 translate
setgray}def 1 0 0 42 1 0 c 0 1 1{0 3 3 90 270 arc 0 0 6 0 -3 3 90 270
arcn 270 90 c -2 2 4{-6 moveto 0 12 rlineto}for -5 2 5{-3 exch moveto
9 0 rlineto}for stroke 0 0 3 1 1 0 c 180 rotate initclip}for showpage
This is slightly offtopic, but not too much, so here goes.
Anybody have advice for computers for robotics applications? I played around quite a bit with lego mindstorms, and I'm wondering if there's something similar but better out there.
Here's what I'm looking for: something with enough CPU power and memory to be able to run a reasonable OS, like Linux or BSD, consume little power, and have good IO support. Bonus points if it has enough power to be able to run gcc so I don't have to compile my programs somewhere else. Some kind of wireless communications, whether 802.11b or IR serial or whatever, is a must.
The best that I've seen so far is the stuff from Soekris, but I'd be interested to know what slashdotters think, if there are other good choices out there.
Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
What's wrong with asking for donations? Let the generous people donate to offset the hosting costs. The owner may not get any donations, but is it really that much of a problem to see a small paypal link? Besides, contributions would keep the site alive until you visit in "a few months."
into a standard ATX case?
Do the mounting holes match up, and the ports at the back? How about the single PCI / AGP slot?
Someone actually built a Windows XP box.
Jesus, what a great time to be alive.
Anybody know of a small computer with ISA slots?
I didn't realize how easy it is to actually pay someone with paypal. I have ~30 dollars languishing uselessly in my Paypal account. This guy wanted a meager 1 USD so I clicked on the little paypal icon and in literally 3 clicks the deal was done. This is how the web should work. Better yet, take 1 penny out of my Paypal account every time I visit your site 5 times in a week. After a good slashdotting that guy would get a nice bone for his work and I would make back my contribution many times in Yahoo! stock appreciation.
Click on the "Systems/Servers" link in the left column.
You were 80% angel, 10% demon. The rest was hard to explain. - Over The Rhine
"Math in a song is good."-Linford
2004 PCI express will start appearing in a motherboard near you in limited quantities. As AGP is phased out (Intel and ATI will lead this initiative) PCI express will be phased in as the major video card interface on PC's.
I have friends that come over with their shiny AGP radeon 9xxx begging me to go out and blow my money on the card. I keep repeating to them...
No new video card till these minimum requirements are met.
1. 64bit CPU
2. PCI express
3. Doom 3
1 is here, 2 will be in 2004, and 3 according to JC will be here "when it's done".
Are there any 64bit SFF boards?
Does such a thing exist?
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
Or admit that the only time you see the server room is when you go in there to empty the wastebaskets.
I just put together a nice 1GHz VIA C3 mini-itx system. I looked around at pre-assembled systems, but the price was crazy compared to how much cheaper it is to buy the parts and put them together yourself. Even more so than regular PC hardware, probably because this mini/micro stuff is newer.
The most noise comes from the two hard drives I put in the thing, since I didn't get any special quiet drives. Just a couple of 7200rpm IDE drives.
Does anybody make a small box for home router use?
The consumer-grade DSL router appliances all seem lame. I'd like to set up a box running linux with a couple of ethernet ports, so that I can route between DSL, 801.11, and ethernet, with some of my own customizations.
I could get an old PC, but they are large, noisy, power-hungry, and prone to failure. I just want some simple linux appliance with a couple of ethernet ports, 64 MB of RAM, and a couple hundred MHz of processor. It'd be especially nice if it were power-thrifty. E.g., using one of the Transmeta processors.
Anybody seen anything like that?
Hmm, "Pictures not available due to heavy traffic". Does that count as being slashdotted, since it isn't fully healthly, nor is it dead, more like on crutches. I think those cases are awesome, but the fact is, its easier to have a lotta room to work with, especially with upgrading.
If you are about to mod me down, keep in mind that this post was most likely sarcastic.
How about Soldam? They've got quite a good range of cases and MBs to choose from. A bit pricey, but very nice stuff.
Lump lingered last in line for brains, and the ones she got were sorta rotten and insane.
Half a year ago, I shelled out about a grand for a so called "Hush unit" from the German company Hush Technologies.. Frankly, I'd thought it'd be more hushish than it actually was.
I'm not saying that I'd sounding like a 3-year-old IBM PC (kind of like a DC-3 starting it's engine), but it isn't exactly silent either. In fact, it generates enough noise to make me unable to sleep, having the unit in my bedroom. It's the HD (Seagate B.) that's making the sound and the sound isn't dampened enough, as it's surrounded by a steel chassis and as you know, steel isn't the best of materials reducing noise.
Also, the unit seems to draw an immense amount of power first when turned on and with the shitty PSU not being able to provide enough juice, some units always fail to initialize correctly (like the network 'adapter').
So, I'm looking for a new unit to replace this POS with one which fills the following criteria:
For me, silence is worth a lot and I've paid thus far an incredible premium to reduce it on my machines. And by silence, I don't mean a low hum, but no perceptible sound at all.
Please, if you or anyone else know of a system which fill these criteria, I'd be very grateful to read about it.
In a society that believes in nothing, fear becomes the only agenda ~ Bill Durodié
It was Slashdotted. Cache of the page
is a computer that fits inside of a standard keyboard (albeit slighly bigger than normal):
http://www.cybernetman.com
I've ordered one of these for my wife along with a wall-mountable lcd display. Given the system that was ordered, the prices weren't entirely out of line.
When she's done, she can put the keyboard away in her cabinet (we made a model of it and tested this theory). Her desk stays clear.
-- PhoneBoy
The views expressed herein are not necessarily those of anyone, including the poster.
Firstly, I'd like to know what you're using to boot your xterm. Is it a home-rolled solution or one of the many projects out there? If it's one that I'm familiar with, I can probably help you with sound. It's not too difficult, as you can use either esd or nasd.
Secondly, What did this little guy cost you? I can't seem to find one, even after spending hours in the IT malls here, and I get blank stares and questions of if it's an Intel or AMD.
I suspect that, though it's sexy, it won't replace my current preferred client, 800 Baht (US$19) Dells with everything ripped out, paletted from Japan.
Put identity in the browser.
I don't know what kind of office this guy works in, but my office is limping along on 50 or so Pentium II's. Lame, but true stories from Dilbert-land...
+++OK ATH
Directly from the article:
"The problem now was that I ran the risk of accidentally booting Linux from the "Windows XP Box" or even worse, booting Windows from the "Linux Box". That would not be good. It needed to be fool proof.
"The solution is already visible in the picture of the Linux Box. It is cut for the inner support case orientated upside down from the way it is in the "Windows XP Box" (hint: the CD drive is at the bottom instead of the top).
"In order to detect which way up the box is I built a little detector module. This is made out of a tilt switch and a resistor soldered on to a 10 pin IDC plug. This fits onto the internal serial port COM2 header on the Mini-ITX board just behind the parallel port connector. The resistor connects between the serial port DTR (Data Terminal Ready) output pin and the CTS (Clear To Send) input pin. The tilt switch connects between CTS and the serial port ground pin. By programming DTR high I can read the state of the tilt switch directly from the CTS line. It's a very small assembly so this photograph doesn't help much.
"The final step was to take an assembly language MBR boot loader program and modify it to read the state of the tilt switch and make it boot the partition containing Windows XP or the partition containing Linux. To those that don't know the secret of how it works it looks like magic. It boots the right O/S for the box it is in.
Bandwidth Limit Exceeded
The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to the site owner reaching his/her bandwidth limit. Please try again later.
Extra bandwidth charges and the cost of taking there domain away from the net for however long it takes them to find the cash.
In the ever growing race for computer ubiquity, is there anyone out there selling a board+cpu that can survive inside a waterproof shock-mounted case riding in my car ? And be able to run Diablo 2 while in heavy traffic in the middle of winter with the heater blowing full-tilt ?
I'm thinking VIA Epia, but I'm still not convinced on the heat problem.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
Just "install" one of these... http://www.akg.com/products/powerslave,mynodeid,18 6,id,250,pid,250,_language,EN.html
when i put them on, there is total silence (or loud music, depends on the mood i'm in...)
nuklearwanze
_________
fermions rule!
Last LAN part was a PITA with a full sized tower - not any more! That machine is gone replaced by an XPC with integrated everything and a 9700 Pro for video. What a relief!
:-O
I've just now built another XPC for my girlfriend and will be replacing 2 file servers and an MP3 jukebox with my next one. If I run out of storage an external Firewire RAID enclosure off of Ebay will do me fine. That machine will be burning DVD too - power to spare.
Doing all of this is going to lower the heatload in my home office, hopefully lower power bills, and provide faster machines all across the board. At this point in time I see NO reason to purchase another full sized machine. If a specific application comes up where I need something bigger I've got about 5 extra shells laying around in the boneyard I can use but there's going to have to be a VERY good reason to deploy one!
As it stands now the XPCs do it all, I've yet to see a single argument for not using one other than the "mine's bigger" argument. Hell, I've even overclocked one of mine and have YET to get it to overheat. I just keep turning the FSB up and it just keeps going - Distributed.net's client gives it a good workout too. This sure beats that full tower with 5 fans in it!
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
I now have an expanded verison of the table online. It includes all the information I have except for the special features. That will come soon. It's not quite done yet, as I have to make header images, tweak the spacing, etc, but it will serve for now.
Click here to view it. Its a little over 2000 pixels wide, so those with low resolutions should probably stick to the simple one for now.
"A coward dies a thousand deaths, the brave but one."
Another sticking point on SFF stuff is the _height_ of the PCI slot (or AGP, for that matter). I was looking building a PVR and many nice-looking SFF boxes didn't allow a full-height card -- a necessity if you want to use a Hauppage WinTV card... In many cases, it was extremely hard to find this info explicitly stated, and I only figured it out by poring over poor-quality images.
You can probably get one for $100. I have two of them. They are probably a bit smaller than a "small" pizza box.
They have 1 or 2 PCI slots, 2 PCMCIA slots (yes, really), integrated sound, video, and network, and use a PS/2 keyboard/mouse. They can use a SCSI disk or a laptop IDE disk, and have external SCSI and serial too.
You can run NT 4, DEC Unix, Linux, or a BSD variant. The main issue is that they require parity SIMMs and might only be able to address a smallish hard drive. Many of them don't come with floppy drives either, but they can netboot.
WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
I don't know where the author has been hiding, but the table's very incomplete. As far as I can see it only lists Pentium and Athlon systems. A table of SFF PCs that doesn't list any VIA systems is just stupid.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak