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EMC To Acquire VMware
kma writes "According to The Register, virtual machine software maker (and my employer) VMware Inc. will be acquired by storage giant EMC, pending the usual approval process." The article explains: "VMware makes the industry's premier set of partitioning tools for running both Windows and Linux on a single server and running multiple applications on a single system. EMC plans to grab the privately held VMware for $635 million in cash."
I'm not aware of VMWare's current monetary standings, but this isn't something I would have expected.
As long as they keep their product's quality up, I don't mind who's paying the bills.
clifgriffin > blog
I'm installing Vmware GSX right now. I was checking slashdot while the server reboots.
http://use.perl.org
Yes, this is nothing I would of expected from VMWare. Odd.. Oh well, thats what buisness is.. buying out other companies.
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I hope they don't raise VMWare to EMC prices!
This is America, damnit. Speak Spanish!
I wonder if the pricing will change?
At one time, vmware had home user pricing at something around $100. Then, they cranked it up to ~$300. Hopefully EMC will have some pricing options for home/hobbyist/non-commercial use. $300 is a bit too steep for me.. I can build another PC to run windows for that much.
Emulation seems completely the opposite direction I would want to take data storage, especially since performance and reliability are top concerns. How does adding an emulation layer enable the data environment?
...that VMWare keeps its good Linux performance, because it's the only option (that I know) left after that M$ removed Linux support from Virtual PC.
The IT section color scheme sucks.
I hope this is good news for us VMWare users. Can't help to think it is. Things seemed pretty iffy for them after MS entered the space.
The only downside I can think of is that EMC focuses on the enterprise. Don't know if they give a spider-hole about us lowly single license folks.
I, for one, will await a price decrease announcement after MS ships their product. I desperately need to upgrade, but can't afford their steep prices.
EMC recently acquired Documentum. They are becoming quite a powerhouse. If they acquire Sun, things could get very interesting again.
"If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid." - Epictetus
I'm serious. If VMWare had the money to put into new reaserach then I doubt they would be allowing themselves to be bought out. The fact that they are allowing themselves to be purchased means that they most likely do NOT have the funds to put into Quality Assurance, much LESS to put into research.
One of the great things about VMware was that it was priced for home users, too... after the initial expense of the first copy, upgrades were available every version for only $100.
I hope "getting more into server management" doesn't mean limited (or non-existent) availablity of a great product for a great price in the future.
libertarianswag.com
As an EMC employee, this is a big surprise to me. (That's why I'm being anonymous.) This is the first time we're buying something that doesn't have an obvious storage connection (or a connection to an existing EMC product).
:)
It will be nice if this means we can get everyone who currently has separate Linux and Windows systems to move to a single machine with VMware, as we won't have to worry about licensing.
"business" is exchanging goods and services for either currency, or other goods and services. It has nothing to do with "buying out other companies".
Since EMC itself is on the "short list" for aquisition by Microsoft, this seems less strange but still very interesting.
All of these moves just demonstrate the increasing move back to the mainframe. Now, the mainframe presents a virtual GUI interface to the user vs. a 80x25 green screen. The mainframe now becomes a series of operating system images, working in a virtualized system, providing users with their environment to do their work. Really, look at the "on demand" efforts by IBM and others, or the moves by Microsoft with VirtualPC and continued strength of Terminal Server. And you'll have access all the way down to your PDA/Phone! And once they lick persistent sessions across your instance, well then, you'll never have to reboot again!
The cycle continues yet again. What will create the next requirement to move systems off of the mainframe? I'm not quite sure, but let's hope that VMware (really ESX Server and GX Server--the real reason they bought VMware) does not get too tied to EMC storage virtualization. There are too many good uses beyond creating reasons to buy hard drives or SANs.
...tizzyd
I predict the merger will fail, horribly. Of course, that's an easy bet, given the history of most corporate merger and acquistion activity. Seems like 90% of them fail -- Wind River buying BSDi, Compaq & DEC, AOL & Netscape. And of those that "succeed", seems like the success isn't any better than what they would have been anyway -- e.g. Microsoft & Hotmail. Can anyone name an acquisition story that's been a huge success?
Like others, I wonder if this will have any effect on VMWare Workstation. It looks like they are pushing for server virtualization rather than programming/development. I use VMware *a lot* for consulting work, sysadmin and programming, even networking tests using the virtual networks. I run Windows, several Linux, several BSD, etc., and I haven't found anything that approaches VMWare (except maybe a stack of mini-itx machines each running a different OS, but that's obviously not as efficient). Not exactly a "hobbyist" but I'm not going to pay more than, say, $500 (and I *never* buy closed-source software so that shows you how useful vmware is to me). I'm probably just being silly, but I *always* get nervous when big public company X buys smaller private company Y, and I depend on Y's product. Because usually that's the one that gets axed or otherwise screwed up as they dream about their "enterprise sales". I bet the next version of VMWare will have a huge bullshit EULA, for instance.. (the existing one isn't so bad).
Still, it's too bad they couldn't make a go of it independently. It's by far the best value, I actually shelled out $$ for a licensed version, of any piece of software that I've ever purchased.
that VMWare would be worth that kind of money.
Isn't that more than the combined worth of Redhat, Mandrake and Suse?
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
VMware makes the industry's premier set of partitioning tools for running both Windows and Linux on a single server and running multiple applications on a single system.
:) Or did they mean "running multiple operating systems on a single system", in which case isn't that redudant with the first part of the sentence (running both Windows and Linux on a single server)?
:/
I've been able to run multiple applications on a single system for many, many years now. It's called multi-tasking
Also, wouldn't a "set of partitioning tools" be something like Partition Magic or fdisk? Or are we using a more generic form of the word partition? I've used VMware a lot, and I had to re-read this a couple of times just to make sure they weren't actually talking about something else.
Keeping things on topic, anyone know how OSS friendly EMC is? I'd love a free copy of VMware instead of guiltily using a years-old copy with a crack
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
EMC plans to grab the privately held VMware for $635 million in cash."
And I plan to grab the latest copy of VMware before the company disappears, of before their product becomes a giant mess.
Remember AOLscape?
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
Methinks maybe the FUD people are spreading here about VMWare and its potential pricing hike after the buyout is all the more reason for people to look at Bochs. ;-)
At least from an abstract point of view. The VMWare people obviously have some people and technology that are good at dealing with multiple filesystem types and operating systems co-existing.
A few years ago when I was specing new TB sized storage arrays, I wanted an affordable way to allow directly connected access to the same data to multiple operating systems, but allowing for each OS to make native FS calls to get that data. Nobody really had a gracefull solution. Most required isolated partitions, and those that provided a high level emulation layer either had no drivers for Linux, or the cost was in 6 figures for them to even consider developing something.
Needless to say, the cheapest solution was going with a network based access system to that data, which unfortunately meant that I had to spend more money making an isolated high speed network just for FS data, and popping two NICs in everything that was serving that data. Once again, not the most gracefull of solutions.(in fact one of the companies we looked at was EMC, and they were quickly excluded from our list because of their pricing and lack of features)
I've been out of that realm for some time now, so I'm not exactly up to date on advances in that arena. However I'm hoping that by EMC grabbing VMWare that this is one of the things they think they can address with VMWare's intimate knowledge of multiple operating systems peacefully co-existing.
On another note, I've been a huge fan of VMWare, and still use it for dev on a daily basis. If the pricing for VMWare reaches the point of EMCs pricing it will be a very sad day for me.
I sincerly hope that EMC is after the brains at VMWare, and not just the technology. Many companies these days think it's enough just to buy the tech, without its creators, and that's a horrible travesty.
Karma: 0 (But I wield a mean +10 Vorpal Apathy)
It may be a little early to make this call, but the HP+Compaq merger has already reportedly lowered the combined company's operating expenses.
And of course, it put them on par with Dell in terms of sales (15% vs 15%).
.sigs are for post^Hers.
If I recall, the fellow who created the Bochs emulator (maybe his name is Bochs?) claimed that Vmware was using one of his key ideas and not giving credit. I wonder what he thinks of that company being sold for over $.5 billion.
VMWare is great for those that have to make their application work on different platforms. VMWare provides a great way to do that kind of testing without having to have a box (or a pluggable hard drive) for each platform. Just boot into Linux (or Windows, if that's your game) and then you can run entire operating systems within VMWare.
Win4Lin is EXCELLENT for those of us--and I think we're the majority of the emulation market--that just need to run some legacy Windows apps within Linux. I upgraded from WinXP to Linux for performances reasons in February and purchased Win4Lin for $89. It lets me run Windows under Linux and every single Windows application I've wanted to run has run fine under Win4Lin. That includes QuickBooks, Quicken, Microsoft Office 2000, VisualStudio 6.0, GoldWave, Paint Shop Pro, a number of 16-bit applications, IE, RealPlayer, etc. I have yet to find an application that doesn't work. Win4Lin does have limitations (USB support and you can't run XP within Win4Lin), but if you are really trying to migrate to Linux then this is not much of an issue. My USB devices work fine with Linux (scanner and camera) so I don't need them to work in Windows, and I don't have any legacy apps that require XP so that limitation isn't a factor either.
When I made my move to Linux I spent a week or two trying to decide which to buy--VMWare or Win4Lin. In the end, I went with Win4Lin. I just decided that what I really needed was some legacy Windows support and that's it. While I was tempted to get VMWare so I could do multi-platform testing, that was more of a "cool thing to be able to do" rather than something I really needed. So far I haven't needed that flexibility. And if what you want is to run Windows legacy apps in Win4Lin, you can't beat the speed. My Windows legacy apps run faster under Win4Lin under Linux than the same apps on the same computer under Windows XP!
Another factor is that Win4Lin uses the native file system whereas VMWare creates a "virtual disk" which ends up being a huge file on your drive somewhere. So Win4Lin runs out of a copy of Windows in my ~/win directory with a whole Windows file structure below it. I can copy/delete, etc. anything in my Windows installation from my Linux shell. And since it uses the native filesystem, it's fast. VMWare, on the other hand, creates a virtual disk which is a huge file somewhere in your filesystem. So you'll see your Windows installation as a 2GB file and the only way to get data out of it is to run VMWare, enter that environment, and then copy it out (using FTP, networking, etc.). Meanwhile, I can get to every file in my Win4Lin installation just by cd'ing to that directory. I don't actually have to run Win4Lin to get to my files.
Anyway, long rant... what I really meant to address is your statement "Why would they go to a subscription model? Because they CAN?" Well, maybe. But I think only a small percentage of the Win4Lin/VMWare market really NEEDS VMWare. For most companies migrating from Windows to Linux Win4Lin is a much cheaper, much faster solution. So I'm not so sure VMWare can really just decide to go subscription "because they can"--unless they plan on surviving on just the developer's market who very well may NEED VMWare. The rest of the market (which is huge) would be fine with Win4Lin.
Also, wouldn't a "set of partitioning tools" be something like Partition Magic or fdisk? Or are we using a more generic form of the word partition?
The latter.
You can "partition" anything computerish into several, virtual, smaller units.
This sort of stuff is much more common in mainframe shops. You might have a single machine with a bunch of processors, I/O channel processors, device controllers, and devices. You partition it into several smaller virtual mainframe machines, each called "partitions" and each composed of some subset of these resources.
For instance: You might have a machine with 16 processors, of which you licensed 12 (the rest are in-place spares). You throw 4 of them into each of two multi-CPU partitions, one for accounting and one for engineering, use 10% of the time of another in each of ten "slow" partitions for OS software development, linux systems running web servers, and so on. (Maybe the last three get switched between accounting near payroll time and engineering near product release time.) You allocate disks, tapes, memory devices, controllers, etc. (or slices of them), to each partition.
Of those 4 CPUs that are unlicensed spares, maybe one is fried and the other three are in the mainframe supplier's "diagnostic partition", constantly (or intermittently) running hardware diagnostics on themselves and any devices that the vendor's maintainence people are fixing, have fixed but haven't released back to the customer, are installing for "delivery" next month, or are on-site spares of something other than CPUs that haven't yet been bought/rented by the shop.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
That's funny, I've had entirely the oposite experience...running XP in VMWare on Linux had minimum effect on the Linux host, and Windows ran acceptably well. I could even run an XP instance with 256Mb of memory and a 2000 instance with 128 meg along side, leaving the last 128 meg for the host, without much pain.
Running Linux in VMWare with an XP host however is just not the same experience - Windows starts swapping constantly and switching applications gets painful. (this is with 512Mb physical memory, 128 assigned to the Linux guest).
Advanced users are users too!
Virtual PC lets MS-
- virtualize their old operating systems so that they can slide DRM in without making old software/OS's obsolete. New software would run in a DRM'd OS isolated from the others.
- create an OS under the OS (virtualizing BIOS?) so they still get a cut, even if you want to run Linux etc.
VMWare has the same opportunity and a lead in the server area. I'm not supprised they got bought out. Need disaster recovery or deployment of a complex app server? Just copy out the VM to DVD or tape. Very handy.
It's just going to take a while to get those small unmarked bills. Don't get them started about having to count them...
alias uptime="echo '5:33pm up 22342352324 days, 6:28, 2124315623 users, load average: 2432.40, 12312.31, 123123.19'"
from http://www.vmware.com/products/vmanage/vc_faqs.htm l:
What is VMotion technology?
VMotion technology lets you move running virtual machines from one physical ESX Server to another while maintaining continuous service availability and complete transaction integrity. VMotion is enabled by the ability to keep the entire state of an x86 Server in software, which then allows that state to be duplicated and shifted from server to server. VMotion leverages a shared storage infrastructure -- such as a storage area network -- to allow the state of the virtual machine to be moved from one physical system to another without requiring its data to be moved.
Yup. That sounds like EMC to me.
Stop worrying about the risks of nuclear power and start worrying about the risks of not using nuclear power.
Keeping things on topic, anyone know how OSS friendly EMC is?
;).
I did some research about this, and I found an article stating that Compaq, EMC, HP, IBM, Intel and Sun Join Open Source Development Network. But note that this article is dated for the year 2000. Founded by them OSDN site feels VERY good. And we can see it was a really good (bottom) initiative (OSDN even supports slashdot
I tried to answer if after 4 years EMC is still supporting OSDN. Yet I was unable to confirm that.
those are the results of my research in this interestong topic. If you have manage to confirm that EMC still supports OSDN, please let us know!
--
#
#\ @ ? Colonize Mars
#
You've obviously not been using Windows.
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
Does Win4Lin require binary-only kernel modules like VMware?
I have Win4Lin also.
Win4Lin requires a patch to the Linux kernel. They just announced support for Linux kernel 2.6; it's a free upgrade for Win4Lin users.
On the whole, I'm pleased with Netraverse as a company. They have been good about upgrade pricing, and they don't require "activation" for Win4Lin. (Just a long annoying license code. I can live with that.)
Win4Lin runs Windows 98 or ME, but not Windows NT, 2000, or XP. (Yet, anyway.) Win4Lin doesn't handle USB devices or a 3D accelerator card. But networking support is complete, including the MS-specific protocols.
If you have a few Windows applications you want to run on a Linux desktop, Win4Lin is a good choice.
P.S. I cannot get Windows Update to run correctly on my Win4Lin desktop. (It doesn't really matter, since Win98 isn't supported anymore. But if you run Win4Lin and Windows Update works for you, please let me know.)
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
How about Linux as the host OS? That is what Microsoft is most concerned about I would think. With VMWare I copy my Windows installation between home and office and fire the same copy up in different versions of VMWare. If I could not fire Windows up I would have to dual-boot or use Windows exclusively at work (shudder).
At some point I look forward to Wine doing most of what I need. But I doubt it'll get to the point that I can adequately develop and test a VisualStudio 6.0 application there. But if it could handle my QuickBooks and Quicken needs then my excursions into Windows would be even more rare than they already are (I usually do my business and personal accounting once per month, so that's usually about as often as I have to get into Win4Lin).
I bought VMWare back in the 2.0 days, and I've been strangled by their desktop pricing ever since. I need it because I'm an author of technical books and I need to take screenshots of things like boot screens and such. VMWare has good technology, but I've observed:
* They have focused more on the ESX and GSX line than the desktop. This makes sense from a technology perspective (building upon core competency) and marketing perspective (the server room is where the big bucks are).
* The desktop is marketed towards QA and test geeks, either in software development or IT shops who need testbeds for playing with new toys before running them out to the users. Again, this is where the money is.
* The home / hobbyist / other technical professionals have not been a part of their target market for several years now, and so they don't really care if the pricing fits more with medium-to-large businesses than for someone like me.
* Lastly, they do a poor job linking the useful information that sometimes can be found in their forums with any FAQs, help files, or other addenda. From personal experience, I found that running a guest OS "out of the box" is not covered enough to be helpful. Just try running Mandrake or *BSD by following the help file! Frustration ensues -- and it could be alleviated by a single Web page of helpful advice. Instead, the user gets to go mining for tidbits lurking among hostile VMWare geek postings. Not a good way to encourage new customers, let me tell ya.
I'm sorry to see VMWare get swallowed up by EMC; they have good technology and the market fit makes sense, but I don't think I've ever seen a smaller company get bought by a larger company and have the technology survive in any useful form without being mutated and bastardized beyond all recognition.
DART is not Linux, it's a proprietary OS that is based off of another OS. The only piece of the Celerra that is Linux is the Control Station.
Also based off this comment in the article, EMC has been working on a stealth project with VMware over the past year, according to EMC President and CEO Joe Tucci. The project includes building parts of VMware's virtual machine technology into EMC's storage management software. I expect their motive for this purchase it to extend the functionality of their products, such as Control Center and its affiliated products. Course I haven't been able to figure out exactly how yet.
And you claim about moving from XP to Linux for performance, is a flat out bull faced lie. I dont like Microsoft, but linux is a rickety bucket of bolts and there is no way you can run Office and the other apps you are addicted to in a VM faster with Linux. Its not possible.
It is amusing when someone makes a fool of themselves, but it'd be even more amusing if you weren't an A.C.
Fact: Word 2000 and VisualStudio both run faster on my laptop under Win98 under Win4Lin under Linux than those same two applications under WinXP on the same laptop. That's a fact. I even took a stopwatch out and timed it. I'm talking "load times"--the time from when I double click the corresponding icon to when the app is loaded and ready to use.
Sorry, it's not impossible. It's my real world experience.
You probably sounded a lot smarter espousing here when you were a Windows Kiddie. You probably knew a fair amount about windows. Now you are a UNIX idiot. Congrats.
I'd rather be a UNIX idiot than a misinformed person that doesn't let reality get in the way of beliefs. Doesn't it suck when reality doesn't properly align with your view of how things should be?
Or, more likely, you are just a troll and I have just fed you. :)
I bet they are really worried about things like nVidia's X drivers. Basically, if you ahve an nVidia card, Accel X hasn't got shit on XFree. The nVidia drivers are really fast, stable, and have full native GL support. Basically, they eliminate any advantage Accell X would have since their whole pitch these days is speed and GL.
If ATi follows nVidia's lead (maybe they have already, anyone know?) I'd say Xig is essentially fucked since those two account for the large majority of cards and laptops these days.
Well, Windows Update works for me, though I don't recall doing anything special.
My Win4Lin Windows is an ancient 98 (which works OK for Office 2000 and doing web-stuff with IE6). I select Tools, Windows Update from IE 6.0 and it works (I think right after I installed 98 which came with something like 4.0, I needed to download IE by hand and install it)
Does your network work correctly?
Currently I run win4lin 5.5.11a, but it has certainly worked in the past with 4.0.
I can certainly see how a big player in the server consolidation biz might want to team up with a big player in the storage virtualization business.
If VMWare's developers are going to be assimilated into EMC, I'm pessimistic about this thing. On the other hand, if EMC allows VMWare to maintain substantial autonomy, then it may work.
I'm waiting for IBM to decide it wants to play bigtime in this space. They know how to run Linux on enterprise-caliber hardware, and could probably give "EMWare" a good fight.
... its just like the days of Quarterdeck and Desqview, only with much, much, much more at stake.
Shee-it. The more things change, the more they stay the same. And change. And stuff.
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
...since there appears to be a significant flaw with vmware on hyperthreaded processors. That, plus Microsoft offering Virtual PC 2004 for just over $100 could have adversly affected VMWare's near term prospects.
Of course good for VMware, bad for the slashdot crowd since workstation's future looks very bleak. While there may be a v5.0, I wouldn't expect v6.
They're going to pay $635 million in cash?
I hope they hire some pretty good security - and choose a highly secure location when they make the transaction, or someone might have a really bad day!
Haven't they realised that there are other ways of transferring such large quantities of money around??
Hey, let's get nine pregnant women together and have a baby in 1 month!
I'm running Win4Lin 5.x... not sure the exact version.
The last four or so times I tried Windows Update it failed. So I just now tried it again and it worked perfectly. I didn't change anything!
So I guess Windows Update works fine with Win4Lin. Good to know.
My Win98SE system is now up to date with the latest Windows Update. I hardly ever use it, but that's nice to know.
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
VMware is a bread-and-butter product for people like me delivering computer classes. The company has steadily introduced better and better features for educational customers and I fear we will be kicked to the curb as EMC tries to please enterprise storage-type customers instead. I also suspect that VMware may start to fade into an expensive, proprietary sort of space, ceding the cheap and dirty part of this market to Microsoft's Connectix products.
BTW, a severe gotcha I learned with VMware is that if you create a VM, then Ghost it to multiple systems, those VM's each end up with the same MAC address. Lesson learned, got to use a rollback utility on the original VM or just add a new virtual network adapter to each node's VM after the Ghost has finished.
In principio erat Verbum.
If they are already pregnant, what's to say that one or more isn't already 8+ months pregnant.
You're much better off plugging serial port, USB, PCI, and/or FireWire protocol analyzers into real-world hardware. For serial ports and USB, the necessary hardware isn't even all that expensive (probably cheaper than VMware).
As an ex VMware user I'll tell you why I dropped the product. I have used VMware in corporate settings, to run the requsite Windows apps on my Linux workstations. Budgetary connstraints hit enterprise "cost centers" hard in 2000, and it was far easier to adapt low cost solutions than to prariedog by asking for capital equipment for projects like network management, development, and security.
I stopped using VMware as their support for kernel upgrades diminished. This happened gradually, as their VMware for Windows product evolved. Forcing users to stick with a stock kernel for the lifecycle of a VMware release smacks of lack of concern for the customer base.
If this was a free, user supported project, I could live with some of the limitations of VMware. However, as a paying customer, I expect more for my money.
Neither of them requires binary-only kernel modules; vmware requires kernel modules for which it provides the source, and win4lin requires applying a patch to the kernel source. They are both fairly innocuous.
Larry
Hmm, yeah, I See lots of WinXP users going in there and modifying their configuration and shutting down unneeded services. I'm sure that's much more common than seeing a decent Linux installation. Right.
I was thinking of going to Linux anyway and when WinXP worked out of the box on my laptop slower than my Win98 machine even though the new laptop was supposedly 3 times faster, that's what decided it for me. Sure, I could have dicked around with the WinXP settings, but why would I want to? I was sick of Microsoft for awhile and when they introduced product activation and my HP laptop didn't come with an OS installation disk I figured I'd go with an OS that I actually have OS installation CDs for.
Anyway, I switched for the speed and stayed for the freedom. Worked out great!
Properly configure both and you will see that although VMWare is fast under Linux (Faster than the Windows version) It is still not the same as running it natively.
I also wasn't talking about VMWare. I was saying that Win4Lin running Win98 runs the same applications faster than the same machine running WinXP. I'm talking about 10x faster when double-clicking Word. And that's the honest truth. It seemed faster when I was in Win4Lin and that's when I popped the XP hard drive back in and got the stopwatch out, then popped the Linux/Win4Lin hard drive back in and checked it there. The proof was in the numbers in launching Word and VB6. Those are the two applications I timed. The other apps seemed faster and I suspect they were, but I didn't bother timing them all.
I was just surprised I didn't take a performance HIT. I was perfectly willing to do so. I didn't plan on using Windows that much anyway so I would be willing to put up with it being a bit sluggish. That's why I was so surprised when it actually ran faster.
Don't believe me? Doesn't bother me. I'm a happy camper anyway and that's what matters to me. I'm not going to lose any sleep over a few guys on Slashdot not believing me, ACs no less. :)
I have been experiencing the same thing - and doubly so on a laptop (the slow Linux / Gnome when running in a VM on XP as the Host.) I have found it is about 2x more responsive on a desktop machine with 640M of RAM and a faster hard drive subsystem and a P4/2.4GHz CPU (laptop has 512M, slower drive, and P4/2.0GHz.) I have a Gig of memory on order for another desktop machine (P4 2.4GHz w/ HT - will be 1.25G and a fast HD) to see what difference that makes and am considering going to 2G of RAM to see if that makes any difference. Also of note - the desktops are running Win 2000 Pro.
If the new box (2.4HT/1.25G RAM) makes a big difference I will probably make some noise about it in my journal.
Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
VNC will do just fine as a KVM switch replacement. You don't run games under VMWare, or through VNC, so the limits should affect you.
Don't forget too that a mini-ITX system will handle load better because you have a second CPU.
take emc's mirrorview (synchronous data replication between clariion disk arrays over fcip).
:)).
now add vmware's esx/gsx with vmotion (which lets me pass a virtual machine over the network from one host to another).
then and add some *really* simple hooks into esx/gsx for mirrorview...which btw are already exist as part of emc's standard CX?00 host agents.
now one can move a server, collection of servers, or datacenter full of servers from one location to another while preserving the state of the disk, memory, and cpu.
so for those out there that are worried about the workstation line, fine...whatever. this purchase is about the smartest consolidation and disaster recovery play i've heard of in a *long* time (if they can make it work right
> (and my employer)
hmm...not for long.
The other advantage of running XP in a VM is
that you will never need to use their freaking
activation system again. You can clone the
VM to your hearts content.
My grandmother's Linux box boots into an XP
VM, for example, straight out of init.
(She needs it until Gnomemeeting can handle
her USB Camera.)
-I like my women like I like my tea: green-
Salemen that will wine, dine & fellate to get a contract, then nonexistent support on equipment that's 2 generations behind at 2 x the price of their competition. Where I used to work we had EMC SAN that never even had the phone lines attached that EMC was to use to dial in & monitor, and after asking about an upgrade for a unit they had to come and physically look inside the cabinet because they didn't even know what the **** they sold us. They got our pinhead CFO to sign an ironclad 5 year contract we couldn't get out of. Yay, EMC!
I wonder if we'll see VMWare competing with VirtualPC on OSX? Competition is good...
MS made a bid for VMWare? And MS bought out Virtual PC from Connectix.
Should there be a Law?
I'm guessing a few million bucks per year
Guess again, or just read the article. "The company has been profitable for five quarters in a row, and should post between $175 million and $200 million in revenue next year." That's a sizable bite of EMC's annual revenue of $2.2bn last year.
Well, depending on what you need VMWare for, just consider Win4Lin [win4lin.com].
You're forgetting that VMWare has more than just one product. It's obvious from the article that VMWare Workstation is not the product they were after.
This deal is all about getting their hands on the ESX and GSX server products.
That said, ALL of VMWare's products are much more flexible than Win4Lin, which is really just a niche product, even moreso than VirtualPC. Those two are designed for people who just need to run the occasional Windows app on a foreign OS.
The real beauty of VMWare's products, even the Workstation version to a small extent, is that you can actually run production servers within the VM's. I wouldn't necessarily recommend it with Workstation, but I have gotten away with it for brief periods in the past.
Now, with GSX server, you CAN run production servers inside a VM with confidence. And with the VMWare Remote Console, you can access those individual servers from across the network as if you were in front of them physically. Mail server is running out of memory, but the file server has way more than it needs? No problem, just access a web interface and move some memory from one to the other. Beats the hell out of swapping DIMMs around.
Plus you can allocate resources at a much finer resolution than with physical hardware.
Not to mention that my server room now only needs two boxes, and two UPSs, instead of dozens.
Personally, I wouldn't even place Win4Lin in the same product category as VMWare's offerings. And they DEFINITELY have different target markets and intended uses.
Actually, I got a different impression.
I haven't noticed so much of a shift in focus to the VMWare for Windows product as I have a shift in focus from Workstation to GSX and ESX. The Linux kernel simply evolves at a faster pace than they want to expend resources keeping up with for the "bastard child" Workstation product.
The moment I heard the announcement of the server products I strongly suspected that the workstation product's days were numbered. Now, with this acquisition, I'm sure of it.
Hopefully they'll at least sell the Workstation product to someone willing to cater to that market, because the market is certainly there. It's a damn fine product that fills an important role.
It's just not a product that seems to have much of a role to play in the combined future of these two companies after this news.
You make it sound like you heard the news not from your employer, but from The Register? Man, that sucks big time.
Oh, one other advantage that absolutely kicks ass...
Need to set up a new database server? Grab your OS disks, fire up VMWare Worksation at your desk, and set it up. This has obvious advantages if the server room is across the building, and even bigger advantages if it's across the country.
When it's configured and tested to your satisfaction, just ftp those disk image files to the GSX server, boot it up, and let the users at it. (at least i HOPE they haven't broken that compatibility recently, I know it works with the versions I have installed.) Oh, and don't forget to burn those image files to a DVD. Now you've got a quick easy starting point should you ever need to set up a similarly configured server in the future.
There are TONS of advantages that come from having your server environment configured this way, and most of them don't become obvious until you've administered in this environment for a little while. A few disadvantages, also, but the tradeoffs are MORE than worth it, IMHO.
You can also set VMWare to use physical drive instead of virtual.
Your point are, generally, correct. Even though Win4Lin biased :)
If you were like me (or in my shoes, rather) your preference might be different -- I need to be able to run an alternative OS within a W2K environment -- to carry around things that don't run native (or don't run well native) in W2K.
Please do not Cygwin me -- Cygwin still has a long way to go to really be there. (As a pet PV -- let me know once you're able to compile stock Tcl/Tk under Cygwin and also AOLServer).
--AP
Damn, should have previewed :))
--AP
This isn't a merger, it's an acquisition.
http://www.vmware.com/news/releases/emc.html
VMware will still be run by Diane Green. EMC folks aren't going to be coming in to run the show. They don't want to disturb the team that's been assembled. Doing so would only be to the detriment of all parties involved. VMware will be able to leverage EMC's sales and marketing folks for more placement which will allow them to grow faster than they would have otherwise had they gone on the IPO themselves. More money will be able to be placed on R&D for better products.
I can only imagine that it will (in the end) add to EMC's bottom line, and help VMware to get better products to market faster with added resources.
Don't go firing the FUD guns until you have a real target to shoot at.
To Alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems.
Using VMware ESX on a SAN with the new VMware Virtual Center is simply amazing... you can migrate machines from one physical box (running ESX 2.0.1) to another in a few seconds (depeding of the amount of virtual memory allocated to the guest OS).
To me the purchase by EMC of VMware is a great move (therefore Dell is also a winner). Now we can all hope for better EMC support for Multipathing and Cluster support on their Clariion storage arrays.
(IMHO) The company that will suffer from this IBM, as I believe the support for IBM's FAStT, will slowdown a bit.
You can also install Linux to a second partition on your hard disk, and make VMWare run that second OS inside Windows (I guess it also works the other way around). So you CAN work with a real file system.
I'm still trying to figure out what people mean by 'social skills' here.
Hammer - good to hammer in nails.
... and a rubber glove!
... but also by using the right tools.
Bah - use the heavy side of my vice grips.
Metric 12mm socket - good to remove a 12mm nut.
Bah - crank down on it with my vice grips.
Seat clamp on a bicycle seat - keeps seat at proper height.
Bah - good place for my vice grips and they do that just fine.
Rubber dipped spark plug cap remover - pull off spark plug caps while the engine is running and not get zapped.
Bah - use my vice grips
Air wrench - good to remove tires from a car in a hurry.
Bah - got my trusty vice grips, and nobody is in that much of a hurry to change a tire.
-:-
VMware is a good tool, and in many cases it is the best tool. The pro's get to where they are by cheating, lying, stealing, taking credit for other people's work
Tell you what, VMware is free for the first 30 days. Download it and install it on one of your spare machines, one with more than 512M of RAM is a good idea. Play with it for a month and if nothing else you will be well armed, able to make informed (actual experience) statements against using it - or you will be a believer. Nobody that has seen what it lets you do has anything but lust in their heart for this technology.
Virtual machines - the holy grail in computing. This technology (not necessarily this version or specific brand) is the bridge from single instance machines to mainframes. No matter how big your server is, if it is Intel based with Windows it is still nothing more than a glorified desktop. You start running multiple virtual machines and you have moved from what is essentially a game machine to a powerful business platform.
No joke. Go to www.vmware.com and download their fully functional 30 day trial. Once it clicks you will be eager to apply virtual machines to a BUNCH of problems we have all hacked our way around in the past.
Might want to get yours now, before EMC does away with the free 30 day trial, or the $300 license and goes somewhere 'professional strength' with the product.
Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
Contrast that with Network Appliance, whose machines may develop a fault overnight, but by the time you get into the office in the A.M., the machine has already emailed support and obtained the RMA # for its own faulty part, which is being shipped prioroty next day air to your location. If a engineer is needed for the service call, he has also been scheduled to arrive when the parts arrive.
NetApp got their shit in one sock, let me tell you.
Edith Keeler Must Die
So you'll see your Windows installation as a 2GB file and the only way to get data out of it is to run VMWare, enter that environment, and then copy it out (using FTP, networking, etc
Just so no one makes the mistake of basing a buying decision on this, let me clarify that this is wrong. VMware uses a virtual disk file to store the other OS, however that disk is dynamic. It only takes up as much as it takes up. You can limit a disk to, say, 2G, and that's the largest it will go to, but if you have 1K on it, the file is 1K, regarless of the maximum size. VMW can also use a partition on a drive instead of a virtual disk. This gives even more flexibility because you can dual-boot, and have access to each OS as you have it setup.
Finally, if using VMware under Linux, you can get a device driver off their site that'll allow you to access the virtual file as if it were a loopback device. This works, and I've used it, but since all my files are stored on a file server, what exists on the machine itself is only programs, so I don't need to access the other filesystems.
Which is more painful? Going to work or gouging your eye out with a spoon? Find out!
http://www.workorspoon.com
you miss the point, EMC didn't give a crap enough to even have the phone lines attached - it was their job & part of their contract
Best sales, yes. Nothing else. One of our units didn't even have upgrade path though we were locked into 5 year contract. Phone lines for monitoring was actually part of their contract, by the way. They are the very worst SAN vendor I've ever had to deal with, HP and Hitachi being the best.
Another factor is that Win4Lin uses the native file system whereas VMWare creates a "virtual disk" which ends up being a huge file on your drive somewhere. So Win4Lin runs out of a copy of Windows in my ~/win directory with a whole Windows file structure below it. I can copy/delete, etc. anything in my Windows installation from my Linux shell. And since it uses the native filesystem, it's fast. VMWare, on the other hand, creates a virtual disk which is a huge file somewhere in your filesystem. So you'll see your Windows installation as a 2GB file and the only way to get data out of it is to run VMWare, enter that environment, and then copy it out (using FTP, networking, etc.). Meanwhile, I can get to every file in my Win4Lin installation just by cd'ing to that directory. I don't actually have to run Win4Lin to get to my files
This is a feature. For instance, I can make a new Linux VM and set it up to be a web server or whatever on my desktop machine. Once I get it up and running like I like, I copy it over to a server and fire it up and it never knows the difference. Also, the suspend feature is nice in that I can do things like debug a program up to a point just before it fails, suspend it, send the VM to someone (or point them to it on a file server) and they can pick up where I left off. The other nice thing about it is that it *completely* isolates my VMs from each other and my host OS. I can have multiple VMs and move them around to other machines all I want without blowing anything up.
Oh, also like someone else said, I can have multiple VMs running different OSs all on my one computer here, simulating a heterogenous networking environment for testing and such. One computer + VMWare costs much, much less than a computer for each OS (and multiple machines for each OS).
One more reason to stick with open source solutions, rather than poring money into companies that hang you out to dry after you QA the software for them.
The problem with that, at least in this case, is that there ARE NO open solutions to turn to. Plex86 and bochs are probably the closest, and neither one is even close to being a suitable replacement for VMware.
And that's just looking at their workstation product. The situation is even more grim when you go looking for an open solution to replace their server products with.
Even if projects got underway today, they wouldn't be ready for a long time. Would be nice to have an open source alternative to ESX Server, though.
Cool. You must've bought a Clariion.
We got the same runaround and bullshit from our EMC people when we were unfortunately forced to use one. (Our preferred vendor is HDS, but the client bought and forced us to use the EMC POS.)
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"