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RIAA Takes the Fight to the Streets
Lapzilla writes "In an article from LA Weekly, it would appear the RIAA has taken their fight to the streets. Wearing jackets with "RIAA" emblazoned upon them, they have taken to busting street vendors in an FBI fashion for selling bootleg CDs and DVDs."
1. Make RIAA jacket and take street vendors' products.
2. ?
3. Profit!!!
It's like saving taxdollars. They do the police's work and the police can worry about real crime, then.
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Let's say, theoretically, someone wanted to purchase these jackets. Where would one buy them?
I, er, my friend wants one.
Oh they really chose the perfect city for their testing grounds. LA is probably the city that has the most lawyers per person living there.
Well, if you ever get in trouble with the RIAA in the streets of LA, try the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Here are a few tips from the EFF if you get in trouble with the RIAA.
I wonder if their jackets are copyrighted. It would be funny to find RIAA jackets for sale downtown LA. But then again, who would wear them!
It is not enough to have a good mind. The main thing is to use it well. - Rene Descartes (1637)
Man, that is hilarious. Do they even cart people away in caged vans?
I'd say the folks wearing RIAA jackets might want to watch their backs...
It seams to me that if they make them selfs to look like the cops, that would break a law about impersonating a police, they even said they are "They said they were police from the recording industry." They have no power to do this, this is just some FUD tactics on their part, I am not saying that it is ok to sell bootlegs. Once you start to make money from bootlegs (and from the article it does not seam that the guy was selling bootlegs to his knowledge, they might have been with that upfront cost but that is another story) then you have crossed from fair use to copyright infringement, but still 2 wrongs do not make a right, and the RIAA is really opening them selfs up to major legal problems, but being that they have such a strong lobby group they might not get into trouble.
Is this for real? Who gave them the authority to do this? If I were to plagiarize someone's work of fiction, it doesn't give that person the right to bust into my bookstore and throw things around. There are legal proceedings to be followed. Whatever happened to decency?
Damon,
http://actionPlant.com
Citizen: Um, listening to a record I checked out from the library?
RIAA Cop: "Checked out"? Don't you mean "Used to commit a crime!?"
Citizen: Um, no. I don't think-
RIAA Cop: That's the problem - you don't think! Come with me - we're going to Walmart so you can BUY that record. "Checked out" - I've never heard such a pathetic excuse.
the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
I don't know -- the RIAA is pretty low, but I don't think even they would want people to confuse them with the LAPD.
Second best quote: "They tried to scare me," Borrayo said. "They told me, 'You're a pirate!' I said, 'C'mon, guys, pirates are all at sea. I just work in a parking lot.'"
When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.
Mark Twain
Next step: Street Vendors selling RIAA-emblazoned jackets. Oh the hilarity!
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
Now we know who to beat up! Anyone wanna bet that some of these guys will be found wandering, naked and confused, with their ass cheeks duct-taped together?
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
For its part, the RIAA maintains that the up-close-and-personal techniques are nothing new. RIAA spokesman Jonathan Lamy says its investigators do not represent themselves as police, and that the incident reports vendors are asked to sign, in which they agree to hand over their discs, explicitly state that the forfeiture is voluntary.
All right boys... Make sure the boots go up above the knees... We're heading into bullshit territory!
If the RIAA isn't trying to look like the police why do they bother hiring ex-police officers, wear clothing similar to raiding police units, and cavort about as some sort of tactical unit? It is obvious to me that they want the "villains" to think they are the cops (and those street vendors, at least for the time being, are going to believe that they are).
Pink slips that say they handed the stuff over voluntarily or not... They are acting as an official force on duty to confiscate material and they want to look as official as possible to have these individuals fork over the material quickly and without issue. If they are so concerned about their property being "stolen" and resold why don't they contact the real police and have them do it? Probably because the real police have better things to do than worry about what is being sold in Chinatown...
Please remember that this is where your money is going when you decide to purchase music that is "owned" by the RIAA... Busting 12 year olds and funding a "tactical unit" to bust street vendors.
My suggestion, as always, is to support FREE MUSIC. FurthurNET and Sharing the Groove
Good luck RIAA and thanks for yet another humorous charade!
...as the vendors might fight back! Those guys can be *mean** if you piss them off...
libertarianswag.com
It appears the RIAA is busting people under color of law. If this is true then it is a big deal. This means that the people they are busting believe they are police. Even if you're not a cop, if you present yourself as one, you are considered a state actor by the courts just like a real cop and can be held civilly liable for violations of civil rights. Private citizens acting in their private interests cannot be held liable under the civil rights statutes (primarily 42 USC 1984) but state actors can.
Okay, so lets say they walk into a place that is making counterfit CDs. Do they really have the right to go in and cease all of the counterfit property? I thought that they had to go through proper legal channels to do this. If this is okay for them to do, then why can't the creator of a GPL product bust into a company they know is violating the GPL in thier hardware and just start taking stuff? I'm surprised SCO hasn't started busting into every business and started taking computers with Linux on them... Wearing jackets that say SCO on them. SCO is scarier sounding than RIAA.
obviously trying to scare and confuse people into signing over their goods. who knows what else they got them to sign. ugh! It's clear they don't give a crap how the public views them, most companies would not treat their customers like this.
I remember during the DVDCSS trial in NY, the 2600 legal team took reporters about a block away from the courthouse and showed street vendors selling illegal DVDs. The point (at the time) was it was easier and chaper to get an illegal DVD off a street vendor than it was to copy the DVD to your drive and burn it.
I wear a 'Pirate' Jacket when I bust into Borders and grab CDs. Fair's fair.
"I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
Hello future, the present is calling
...they may all be ex-P.D. Yes, they wear cop-style clothes and carry official-looking IDs. But if they leave people like Borrayo with the impression that they're actual law enforcement, that's a mistake.
From the article this sounds pretty dispicable:
"The RIAA saw it differently. Figuring the discs were bootlegs, a four-man RIAA squad descended on his stand a few days before Christmas and persuaded the 4-foot-11 Borrayo to hand over voluntarily a total of 78 discs.
"They said they were police from the recording industry or something, and next time they'd take me away in handcuffs," he said through an interpreter.
With all the trappings of a police team, including pink incident reports that, among other things, record a vendor's height, weight, hair and eye color"
A disgusting case of intimidation. Way to go RIAA, pick on a 4' 11" guy who hardly knows English.
But is this really any suprise? Plenty of companies have their own private police forces (and small private militaries too) and you still can hire your own army if you've go the cash, which many companies do.
This statement goes a little far in my opinion:
"A large percentage [of the vendors] are of a Hispanic nature," Langley said. "Today he's Jose Rodriguez, tomorrow he's Raul something or other, and tomorrow after that he's something else. These people change their identity all the time."
Which is a polite way of saying: "Those damn shifty Mexicans! They can't be trusted!" You're not the police! If I don't tell you my real name, there's nothing wrong with that, you idiots.
Casual Games/Downloads
At least the article details out the main question here, which is: Why is the RIAA acting like the police, when they are not the police?
It's one thing to do a "citizen's arrest" or something similar but it is an entirely different subject to dress up in raid-style commando outfits and go around strong-arming people into doing what you want.
They keep this up, and its only a matter of time before they cross the line. When that happens (and it will), the RIAA will only have hurt themselves.
There is a word for one who takes the law into his/her own hands: vigilante.
Esoteric reference.
These people are ejaculating in the face of the court of public opinion.
It may save tax dollars - but it is a step toward private business enforcing it's own laws. Has anyone read Snowcrash (by Neal Steavenson) where the different parts of the city all have their own rent-a-cops that enforce different laws? I realize that the RIAA is attempting to combat piracy - but they should not be making claims like "They said they were police from the recording industry or something, and next time they'd take me away in handcuffs..." (from article).
Taking law into your own hands is not something I want to see happen in America - for example some guy starts pulling over speeders that drive by his house, or a store owner shoots two kids that are shoplifting... Simply put I don't trust the RIAA and most private law enforcement agencies. That is why I pay taxes - so I can have a FAIR and UNBIASED bunch of law enforcement.
That said - I think the guy was an idiot for selling pirated stuff and don't support him one bit - it is the tactics that are being used that scare me.
There is always a frontier where there is an open and willing mind
1. They aren't a government agency
2. They aren't able to imprison anyone
3. They can't take someone else's property without permission to do so.
So what are they?
Impersonating a police officer or other gov't agency is a crime, as well as theft by deception so what is the RIAA?
Criminals!!!
~corporate tool, but employed~
This would be an awesome game. You are an RIAA agent with the jacket, sunglasses and cool weaponry. Your goal is to destroy all things music related. Dude with an MP3 player walking down street listening to music, Blam, cha ching. etc.
RIAA: (Hand reaching into sky, as heart is cluched) AHHhhhhggghh!
Random Chick: Ohh Vendor! Let's do it!
This one act play is brought to you by the stale ideas of the MPAA. Thank you.
Lets go around in greasy t-shirts and ten years worth on unkeept beard growth (the official uniform of the FSF) kicking down the doors of people who violate the GPL and shout "Freeze scumbags, this is the FSF! Hand over your source code into the public domain and no one gets hurt!".
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
Is this a joke? I have a hard time believing this, except that I'm worried it's true.
How is this not a mob? Extortion? Impersonating a police officer? Harassment? Vandalism? I'd like to see the people involed with this arrested and held accountable for the numerous felonies they're committing!
________________________________________________
suwain_2
If this is true, it's ludicrous. If these cases go to court, I forsee many of these vendors getting off without a hitch. If the RIAA had developed agreements with regional police authorities to work in tandem, then perhaps it would be a good tactic. As it stands, it's simply more scare tactics from an organization that seems bent on making itself the public enemy.
Besides, since when were street vendors the ones that were sharing tens of thousands of tracks per day? I imagine they are hardly the largest part of the problem. Hiring trained security officers to tackle such a small issue is a waste of their money... hmm... wait. Why am I complaining?
Here in NYC, it was hard to find live recordings in our global marketplace's Village record stores during Mayor Rudolph Giuliani's regime. He had his troops go into record stores to confiscate recordings that NYC shoppers can get, despite record companies' failure to release them. Everyone knows that the buyer of an unreleased live recording already owns several official releases, and the live stuff is what keeps us interested between concerts and releases. But rather than building anything that would last, Giuliaini spent our time and money on destroying a free market that threatened no one. Of course it went underground, onto the Internet. And once Sir Rudy had used NYC for our maximum TV exposure, he hitailed it off to Bushland, raising maximum dollars for his Divine Right king. In his absence, the markets reopened - stronger than before, after the culling and Internet retrenchment. Don't let these keystone rentacops scare you - freedom of expression is irrepressible.
--
make install -not war
Does anyone else here think that these EX-cops should be brought up on charges of impersonating a police officer and potentially discrimination (80% of their incidents are against Hispanics and the "officer" interviewed had choice words)? And wouldn't that leave the RIAA open up to liability for potential violation of civil rights and false arrest if the "cops" actually put anyone in handcuffs as they are threatening to?
As long as there is a Second Amendment, there will always be a First Amendment.
Now I have the Doobie Brothers' song "Taking it to the Streets" stuck in my head!
It's pretty obvious what they're doing - essentially saying that they have the power to arrest and incarcerate private citizens - and they could end up in some serious legal hot water here. There are all sorts of laws against vigilantism and misrepresenting yourself as an officer of the law. I'd say that this could end up as an even bigger PR mistake than attacking grannies and little kids; there, they were (technically) on the right side of the law. Here, they're blatantly violating the law in order to get what they want. I hope they burn.
Note: I'm not a lawyer. If you need one, get one licensed in your jurisidiction; if you've been hassled by these assholes, you definately need a lawyer. As far as I can tell, this would be a slam-dunk case for a first year law student, let alone an experienced litigator.
That's it. I'm no longer part of Team Sanity.
End of story.
0110100100100000011000010110110100100000011000100
Did anyone else RTFA far down enough to notice the quote from Langley...
"A large percentage [of the vendors] are of a Hispanic nature," Langley said. "Today he's Jose Rodriguez, tomorrow he's Raul something or other, and tomorrow after that he's something else. These people change their identity all the time. A picture's worth a thousand words."
WTF? THESE PEOPLE? Is it just me or does it seem that these guys are trying to prey on immigrant (illegal or otherwise) fears of police authority?
I'd like to see some sort of study of how many people are out hawking pirated wares, broken down by race, versus the race breakdown for the people the RIAA are busting. I know it doesn't matter because they're not actually imposing any authority, but it would be interesting to see the Hispanic community's reaction to the above quotation, and those numbers.
Denver Isuzu Suzuki
Oh, let's count!
And this, my friends, is why, no matter how much we hate them, everyone should have the right to hire an attorney. Otherwise you only get the legal rights they tell you you have.
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
"A large percentage [of the vendors] are of a Hispanic nature," Langley said. "Today he's Jose Rodriguez, tomorrow he's Raul something or other, and tomorrow after that he's something else. These people change their identity all the time. A picture's worth a thousand words."
Wow, I hope that quote gets plastered in the paper all around the country. How they let this joker talk to anybody in the press is beyond me. 'These people'... America is not real tolerant of those kinds of statements these days.
-t
http://unmoldable.com W:"No one of consequence" I:"I must know" W:"Get used to disappointment"
For its part, the RIAA maintains that the up-close-and-personal techniques are nothing new. RIAA spokesman Jonathan Lamy says its investigators do not represent themselves as police, and that the incident reports vendors are asked to sign, in which they agree to hand over their discs, explicitly state that the forfeiture is voluntary.
So wait... I can go upto someone with my gang of cronies, wearing gang colours that look like uniforms, claim I'm a wallet inspector, take peoples stuff, and as long as they sign something saying it's voluntary, it's all legal?
I think I found myself a new job
These RIAA pukes are starting to blur the line between corporation and government.
First they started collected taxes by getting a "you'll probably use these for piracy" fee tacked onto recordable media.
Now they're donning lettered windbreakers to act as law enforcement.
What next, are they going to form their own army and invade Thailand on some WMD (weapons of music duplication) witch hunt??? Where does it end?
~Philly
"They tried to scare me," Borrayo said. "They told me, 'You're a pirate!' I said, 'C'mon, guys, pirates are all at sea. I just work in a parking lot.' "
You said it! Copyright infringement isn't theft; it's property devaluation.
Of course, since there's no proof this guy was even selling bootlegged wares, he didn't even engage in that.
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
2. When the RIAA thugs come around, video tape the RIAA taking your legal property.
3. Sue and...Profit!
Try and get some non RIAA music confiscated too. Extra ammo.
Sounds like a wonderful lawsuit to me. We'll call it 'The Shoe is on the Other Foot in your Mouth' case.
anyone else noticed that the entire campaign to get new laws to aid their "war" against their customers will result in the STATE paying to investigate and prosecute copyright violations rather than the copyright owner?
California Penal Code, Section 538d.:
Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that wearing uniforms that resemble generic law enforcement uniforms but are not direct imitations of official uniforms is illegal. Basically, if you aren't using a fake badge or a damn good copy of an official police uniform, I think you can get out of this one under California law. Then, there's the US Code to consider:
As long as they're careful not to represent themselves as being a federal employee, they haven't violated this law either. In other words, it's going to be hard to nail them for crimes unless they do something stupid that's not covered under their little "voluntary" contract that people must sign -- so long as said contract holds up in court as not being signed under duress. Considering that the new RIAA head is from the BATF, I'm pretty sure he's savvy about skirting the laws holding back law enforcement officers as much as possible.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
The most aggregious part of this story is the people they are targeting: low-income individuals (read: people who can't afford an attorney to sue the RIAA for the series of torts they are committing). They are also likely targeting non-English-speaking minorities (who already have trouble getting legal representation in this country anyway). They are robbing these people while threatening to put them in jail (which is plain old vanilla extortion (using the threat of criminal prosecution to settle a civil dispute)). The RIAA's thinking "what bootlegger is going to go to the cops and report that we robbed him?" I guess, under this same reasoning, it should be okay to rob drug dealers (who're they going to report the stolen narcotics to)?
Just when I think I'm growing out of my civil libertarian phase, something like this happens. It's behavior like this that makes me really think it's past time to revoke all those nice little copyright interests they've been granted over the years. We need to raise the issue of "intellectual property right reform" in the presidential and congressional races, and see if there's a politician out there who's not eagerly bending over the table for the media giants.
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
On the other hand, the shirts do come in a nice plastic jewel box.
Soylent Green is peoplicious!
There's a highly insightful recent Matthew Scudder short story by Lawrence Block, "Batman's Helpers", about the private IP rent-a-cops who roust street vendors and confiscate their merchandise in NYC. The story has been reprinted widely; Google for details. I admire Block for tackling this obscure (to most) topic.
The thought of going out anf finding people violating copyright laws for profit is a swell idea in practice.
However, pretending to be cops is, lats I checked, illegal. Just because you say "We're not police" doesnt mean a whole helluva lot when you're dressed like a narcotics team and the average IQ of your everyday joe hovers just slightly above that of a rock.
i'm just sayin'.
s'wut i sed.
This is definately the best quote from the article:
"They tried to scare me," Borrayo said. "They told me, 'You're a pirate!' I said, 'C'mon, guys, pirates are all at sea. I just work in a parking lot.' "
FoundNews.com - get paid to blog.,
Here's a few choice quotes:
RIAA:"A large percentage [of the vendors] are of a Hispanic nature," Langley said. "Today he's Jose Rodriguez, tomorrow he's Raul something or other, and tomorrow after that he's something else. These people change their identity all the time. A picture's worth a thousand words."
Racism, anyone?
How about this gem, regarding parading around looking like cops, but not being cops:
RIAA:If that person feels he was wrongly interrogated or under the false pretense that these people were cops, they should contact their local police station as a victim. We'll sort it all out.
Riiiiiiiight. Make sure you have your receipts on you before you try this one, kids.
It used to be fun to tow the Slashdot line and bash the RIAA for being evil...but you know what? They actually are evil. This is some pretty twisted shit. Racial profiling, impersonating the police, harassment, photographing likely suspects...unbelieveable.
Weaselmancer
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Modded as funny but...
Some of the busts of CD-copying have been of rather major rings. That guy on the street-corner might just be an independant, but where is he getting his CD's from. This is like the kazaa-kiddies at home, some of these guys are affiliated with dangerous gangs.
So what happens when those selling the CD's start losing revenue because of RIAA "police." What happens when they plant armed vendors or wait in a dark corner for the RIAA to show.
Do the RIAA cops have guns hidden somewhere on their person? Probably not, especially not legally. Could some of those involved in the underground CD market have guns? Almost certainly.
From an amazon reviewer: "The penalty for selling someone else's intellectual property in Jeter's world is to have one's brain and spinal cord forcefully removed and placed on life support. The offender's still-living, still-aware neural tissue is then used to make stereo cables or to control small household appliances for the personal amusement of the artist or author that was wronged."
Obviously not what we have here, but maybe a cautionary tale, in the vein of 1984 and a brave new world. The rest of the book isn't bad either, sort of a film noir book merged with bladerunner...
Lets hope SCO doesn't get any ideas from this...
I know...the article says they were just giving people waivers and having them sign saying they were voluntarily giving over the CDs. What's to stop you from doing the exact same thing?
That would be so awesome. Better yet...make BSA jackets, too!
Netjak.com independent reviews of domestic & import video ga
Well, they have the guy from the BATF running the anti-piracy wing now, right?
Expect more of this 'agency-esque' antics....
---- Booth was a patriot ----
"I'm all for the taking down of the major bootleggers, but this is utterly criminal. These people have zero authority to enforce any laws, anywhere. It's a PR blitz that will hopefully backfire."
It's a shame that weapons laws in higher-density cities aren't like those in Arizona, where anyone can carry openly, and people can carry concealed with a fairly easy to acquire permit. I could just see a bunch of thugs in RIAA jackets walking up to a street vendor, start harassing him, only to watch the vendor pull out a couple of 9mm's and blow them all away...
Remember, the burden of proof of copyright violation is supposed to be on the copyright holder, and must be proved before a court of law. A bunch of dudes walking up aren't technically allowed to force anything more than a served subpoena.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
If I got busted by a guy in a RIAA jacket, I'd be looking around for Ashton Kucher.
--Brian
From the article: "Figuring the disks were bootlegs, a four-man RIAA squad ... persuaded [him] to hand over voluntarily a total of 78 disks."
"No, no Your Honor - I'm not a bank robber! Figuring the money in that bank was all counterfeit, I simply persuaded the teller to voluntarily hand over all the money."
- Impersonating a Police Officer
- Robbery
- Extortion
- False Arrest
- Racketeering
- Conspiricy to commit all of the above
- Deriving profit from an ongoing criminal enterprise (RICO)
Sounds like a nice little list of felonies. Hopefully some civic-minded FBI agent will recognize this for what it is and arrest the RIAA leadership under the RICO act and seize all their (personal and business) assets.Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
...only mine will say F.U.R.I.A.A
"The process of confiscating bootleg CDs from street vendors is exactly what the RIAA should be doing," said Jason Schultz, a staff attorney for the San Francisco-based Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF).
No. Confiscation should be left up to the courts. The RIAA should, if it feels it has a valid complaint, report it to the authorities. Confiscation, by a corporation or private individual, should never be allowed. At the point they are doing this, nothing has been proven in a court of law. Due process, people.
Picture of the RIAA during a bust.
In Lee Corso fashion... "Not so fast!" Let's read on about 13-405, 13-406, and 13-411:
13-404. Justification; self-defense
A. Except as provided in subsection B of this section, a person is justified in threatening or using physical force against another when and to the extent a reasonable person would believe that physical force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful physical force.
B. The threat or use of physical force against another is not justified:
1) In response to verbal provocation alone; or
2) To resist an arrest that the person knows or should know is being made by a peace officer or by a person acting in a peace officer's presence and at his direction, whether the arrest is lawful or unlawful, unless the physical force used by the peace officer exceeds that allowed by law; or
3) If the person provoked the other's use or attempted use of unlawful physical force, unless:
a) The person withdraws from the encounter or clearly communicates to the other his intent to do so reasonably believing he cannot safely withdraw from the encounter; and
b) The other nevertheless continues or attempts to use unlawful physical force against the person.
13-405. Justification; use of deadly physical force
A person is justified in threatening or using deadly physical force against another:
1. If such person would be justified in threatening or using physical force against the other under 13-404, and
2. When and to the degree a reasonable person would believe that deadly physical force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly physical force.
13-406. Justification; defense of a third person
A person is justified in threatening or using physical force or deadly physical force against another to protect a third person if:
1. Under the circumstances as a reasonable person would believe them to be, such person would be justified under 13-404 or 13-405 in threatening or using physical force or deadly physical force to protect himself against the unlawful physical force or deadly physical force a reasonable person would believe is threatening the third person he seeks to protect; and
2. A reasonable person would believe that such person's intervention is immediately necessary to protect the third person.
13-411. Justification; use of force in crime prevention
A. A person is justified in threatening or using both physical force and deadly physical force against another if and to the extent the person reasonably believes that physical force or deadly physical force is immediately necessary to prevent the other's commission of arson of an occupied structure under 13-1704, burglary in the second or first degree under 13-1507 or 13-1508, kidnapping under 13-1304, manslaughter under 13-1103, second or first degree murder under 13-1104 or 13-1105, sexual conduct with a minor under 13-1405, sexual assault under 13-1406, child molestation under 13-1410, armed robbery under 13-1904, or aggravated assault under 13-1204, subsection A, paragraphs 1 and 2.
B. There is no duty to retreat before threatening or using deadly physical force justified by subsection A of this section.
C. A person is presumed to be acting reasonably for the purposes of this section if he is acting to prevent the commission of any of the offenses listed in subsection A of this section.
I put relevant pieces in bold. It looks like most of the use of deadly force falls under self defense. The only part that seems relevant is the reference to "burglary in the second or first degree under 13-1507 or 13-1508" of which are not available in that webpage so I am not sure of the 'shooting the guy stealing your car out of your driveway' scenario is covered.
There are differing views on citizen's arrest, as to what is allowed and what is not.
Click here for one view. This shows that is is legal to detain someone and take them to the proper authorities.
However this link indicates that taking this kind of action may expose you to lawsuits for assult, and you should just report the crime.
The problem is that with the RIAA it may have never gotten this far. They did not attempt to detain the guy or take him down to the station or even report him. They just threated him and he signed over his property. What would be more interesting to see is how the RIAA reacts if the person refuses all their requests. What would they do?
A. Report the person to the police.
B. Do A. but put him in cuffs wait for the police.
C. Drag the guy down to the police station.
If they just did A there would certainly be no problem, but B or C could be questionable especially if they go ahead and take away the CD's and DVD without permission. I am sure once the word gets out that they aren't real cops that they will be challenged in a hurry.
...staff of ex-cops
...Figur[ed] the discs were bootlegs
..."They said they were police from the recording industry or something..."
- But if they leave people like Borrayo with the impression that they're actual law enforcement, that's a mistake.
NEGATIVE. That's a FELONY.- oversees
... contractors who sniff out bootleg discs
Apparently without a nose... Did they have any proof other than a hispanic male selling CDs and DVDs from a parking lot booth? They didn't "figure" anything; they blindly assumed guilt based on the person and the place.- the incident reports
... explicitly state that the forfeiture is voluntary
Voluntary my ass! A bunch a dudes dressed and behaving like cops "asking" you to hand over your stuff. Right. And I bet they don't carry any weapons either.continued sale would be a violation of civil and criminal codes (like it isn't aleady?)
- The process of confiscating bootleg CDs from street vendors is exactly what the RIAA should be doing," said Jason Schultz
Wrong, Mr. Schultz. RIAA is not a law enforcement division. They have no more right than any other citizen to "confiscate" another persons property.Assuming what they are doing is illegal, it seems like Barrayo would have to "contact [his] local police station as a victim" for them to take action against the RIAA.
It sounds like they're mainly targeting hispanics; what are the odds they're only targeting illegal aliens (which isn't to say all hispanics are illegal aliens, but that Mexico isn't terribly far from LA, so it's probably safe to say many of the illegal aliens in that area are hispanic). If Barrayo or the others are illegal aliens, I think "[contacting] their local police station" is the last thing they want to do.
That aside, do the laws you mentioned (impersonating a police officer, etc.) even apply to illegal aliens? Maybe the RIAA is more intelligent than we think.
Now for the obligatory Family Guy quote:
"Oh you speak english?"
"No, just that sentence and this one explaining it."
"You're kidding, right?"
"Que?"
USE='clever' emerge -u sig
The RIAA is a membership organization. Their member list is online (it looks like a lot, but in fact most entries are labels that are owned by fewer than a dozen major media publishers).
They might have a contractual basis for enforcing copyright violations by their member organizations (i.e., Sony and Warner). The have NO basis for enforcing copyright violations by other publishers.
For the RIAA jack-booted thugs to enforce for labels or artists they don't represent is the same as you or I enforcing, on behalf of someone else. There's just no basis. Under the copyright law (US Title 17 USC, it's the infringed party that needs to pursue action -- not ANY party, and generally not even law enforcement (at least for garden variety copyright infringement....the feds get called in for fraud, for when banks are involved, and other cases).
In the LA Times article, the only title specifically mentioned was some sort of Latino hits from the 70s and 80s. Chances are that material is not represented by the RIAA. At a community radio station I worked with, the music directors decided not to put any RIAA member music on the play list. Know what? It turned out 80% was not, already! The other 20% wasn't painful at all - it was just a matter of putting it on another shelf, rather than the playlist shelf.
In short, there is a LOT of music that is not represented by the RIAA (a far higher proportion than video that's not represented by the MPAA). They have no business getting involved in any kind of enforcement action for artists or labels they don't have a relationship with.
Really.
Is this story true? A parking lot attendant sells 5 or 10 DVDs for $5/each per. week, and happens to have 78 of them in his booth. One of the titles is Como Te Extrano Vol. IV -- Musica de los 70's y 80's.
The parking lot attended might have expected to get $390 to $780, but it cost him something, perhaps half that.
So, going to MediaPlay's website, I see DVD's selling for $20/each. That make's the RIAA's membership's exposure around $1560, presuming that the copyright holders are members.
A four man RIAA squad probably costs the RIAA at least $400/hour. There's probably other charges for having an investigator/tip-line that notices things like parking lot attendants with under-the-windowsill operations. And the article doesn't tell whether the RIAA got the name of this guy's supplier. (Or perhaps it got his name from the supplier!)
In short, it doesn't seem to be worth rattling the cage of a parking lot attendant.
Unless you expect media exposure to scare off other bootlegers.
B.T.W.: I bought a couple of CD's last year, maybe one or two the previous year. And that's up over the past ten years. I don't own (or want) a DVD player, I don't have broadband at IP access, and my age and tastes are rather outside the buzz and flash of the file sharers. I'm one of those people who just aren't attracted to the RIAA's product.
But I hate, absolutely hate, the idea that the RIAA might someday invade my privacy, should I get broadband service, just because they or some ISP messed up the IP address they think someone publishing "their" music is on.
This drives me nuts. People, remember who you are bashing. The RIAA is just a front for media companies that don't want their images tarnished.
This is a list of RIAA members
Remember - they *want* you to be upset at the RIAA. It is a convenient way to keep your attention focused on an antagonist, rather than the companies that it is backed by.
>I was just wondering when this would start
>happening.
I'll tell you exactly when it STOPS happening. When they try an illegal tactic like this against a person with the most vague clue, I don't know, like maybe they've seen an episode of COPS or Judge Judy?
"What police department did you say you were with?"
"Can you show me that search warrant again?"
"I'll need you to contact my attorney if you want any further information."
"Am I free to leave?"
"You won't mind if I just call the regular police and get their opinion about your offer to use handcuffs on me, right?"
"How about you step off my property right this minute, and I won't prosecute you for trespassing?"
***ANYTHING*** other than "here is all my property, please take it, and don't even leave me your card....
If nothing else, make them forcibly take your property, then you have a simple case of robbery, maybe armed robbery depending on how your state regards the weapon status handcuffs.
Hell you don't even give your property to the police when they arrest you on a felony, without a reciept and clear paperwork.
If you get taken by crooks, RIAA jacket or no RIAA jacket, you need to use some common sense and you also need to seek recourse to the law immediately.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
First of all, is anyone interested in keeping track of where this stuff is happening? I'd like to see a website that tells where these people are operating and where they are doing their raids. I'd be glad to crack some heads over this sort of thing. If the mafia comes to my town, I'll be swingin' a baseball bat till they leaves.
It would also be fun to set up a fake piracy ring selling legit CDs that appear to be pirated and "entrap" the RIAA - it would be pretty easy to provoke them into saying something that would get them into a lot of trouble: "Are you guys with the governement?" "Are you guys cops?" I'm sure that with a few carefully worded questions they would say yes. Just make sure you start the video camera at the right moment...
from getting an 'official looking' jacket with RIAA on it, an "id" and busting a street vendor myself and scoring some free cd's? Well what's to stop me other than the fact I'm a lazy git.
Last I checked "impersonating an RIAA employee" is not illegal or breaking any law I'm aware of, and if they give you their stuff voluntarily it's not stealing.
It'd be FUNNY as heck to hear of fake RIAA agents busting vendors like this...
--- www.f-theocean.com
There is a very easy way to stop this. We need to relize that the RIAA-police force are just a bunch of hired private thugs. That said they can not represent themselfs as police officers. So I suggest we start a spot light compaiegn. We should hangout where they work, and follow them as they do their job.. perfectly legal. Then we publicly and loudly heckle them as they attempt to raid, at the same time we inform the victums that they are victums and call the real police, say the victum belived these were some kind of police officers and file a report that leads to a complaint as impersonatinting an officer. Nothing stops unpopular vigilatism faster then a large public glare.
...and it is legal.
/don't shoot the messenger
I see many on here saying it is illegal for them to take the property of someone else. Not necessarily. My brother works with a very popular rock band. One of the other guys with them obtains -- I believe from a local judge in the city of the venue they are playing -- a legal order that allows the band to confiscate any unlicensed merchandise with the band's name or logo on it, as well as bootlegged CD's.
My guess is the RIAA street team has a similar document or legal backing to do the same thing.
Ironically, the word ironically is often used incorrectly.
Hi folks. Jason Schultz from EFF here. Saw these comments and yes, I was misquoted and honestly, somewhat mislead about what I was commenting on. I've posted the details about what I said and what I meant on my blog.
"Are you with the police?"
"No ma'am, we're musicians."
"The process of confiscating bootleg CDs from street vendors is exactly what the RIAA should be doing," said Jason Schultz, a staff attorney for the San Francisco-based Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF).
Jason, excuse me but are you fucking nuts??? Civilians should confiscate property because they think it's illegal, not call the cops and report it stolen, but just take it? And you are an actual attorney?????
I believe that's my big-screen TV you've got there in your living room, Jason. I'll be right over to pick it up.
is a few people selling CDs from non-RIAA bands, public domain stuff, and legitimately purchased recordings.
I'm sure these rent-a-cops won't know the difference and a couple of well-publicised lawsuits for false arrest, impersonating a police officer, rackateering, and harrassment/intimidation will very quickly turn the public opinion against the recording companies.
There is no right to take the law into your own hands, no matter how deep your pockets are, and these assh*les need a lesson.
Read, L
"Sounds like a nice little list of felonies. Hopefully some civic-minded FBI agent will recognize this for what it is and arrest the RIAA leadership under the RICO act and seize all their (personal and business) assets."
Outstanding.
Did you happen to notice my post on the subject here? Or my journal entry over there?
-- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
Why don't some of us get some official-looking jackets made up that say RICO. Then we can go up to the goons in the RIAA jackets, take their jackets, and tell them next time we find them doing the dirty work for a corrupt enterprise, we'll lock their asses up for a good long time.
Oh yeah, and we'll have them sign things saying that they volunteered to have their jackets taken away and threatened.
-- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
And that's about nothing. If they manage to prove that the material was both infringing and unauthorized they might be able to take the vendor to court and then do something violent to the vendor's bank account.
What they did was pretend to be policemen because the above would not work. They dressed like policemen and they hired former policemen who knew how to play the part. In fact, it would be hard for a policeman to act like anything but a policeman, and one joyfully liberated from all normal lawful restraint. That's against the law and the way they acted might have violated the law even if they were really policemen. Let's look:
"A large percentage [of the vendors] are of a Hispanic nature," Langley said. "Today he's Jose Rodriguez, tomorrow he's Raul something or other, and tomorrow after that he's something else. These people change their identity all the time. A picture's worth a thousand words."
Hmmm, bigots too, sounds like arbitrary enforment based on race. Bzzzzt.
"We notify them that continued sale would be a violation of civil and criminal codes. If they'd like to voluntarily turn the product over to us, we'll destroy it, and we agree we won't sue," he explained.
Extortion, theft, destruction of evidence, a real policeman would be put under the jail for that.
This is strong arm bullshit. What are they going to do to those who refuse to co-operate? How many pictures are they going to take before they start to feel silly and start breaking legs. They are out there in their silly jackets because they know they can't sue these vendors in any cost effective way. They can't find the factories so they have targeted the visable outlet. It's a waste of their time unless they start breaking some heads. We now see the RIAA for what they are: Thugs.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Oh, I can't wait for the first time we see one of these "busts" go bad. I'd love to see the fallout for the RIAA when some grainy video shows up on CNN showing RIAA thugs kicking the crap out of someone for selling bootleg Tupac CDs. I'm going to have a fscking blast watching Jesse Jackson rip them a new one.
Many of these comments suggest that the people being busted have a storefront (that can be trespassed upon), have an attorney or claim one, and, most importantly, have a basic understanding of and faith in their own rights. In fact it seems more likely that the RIAA folks are deliberately targeting people who are safe to hassle because they do not have those things.
If these people are lower-income (parking cars for a buck a car), selling something in a place they don't have a clearly established right to be, or recent (and possibly undocumented) immigrants, they're not going to lawyer up at the first sign of trouble. They don't trust the authorities and they Don't Want Trouble.
On the other hand, we are talking about the LAPD. It's hard to imagine how a middle-aged Hispanic man working on the LA streets would have any concerns about their flawless record with respect to fair and even-handed behavior. :-)
It's the little things.