Slashdot Mirror
RIAA Takes the Fight to the Streets
Lapzilla writes "In an article from LA Weekly, it would appear the RIAA has taken their fight to the streets. Wearing jackets with "RIAA" emblazoned upon them, they have taken to busting street vendors in an FBI fashion for selling bootleg CDs and DVDs."
1. Make RIAA jacket and take street vendors' products.
2. ?
3. Profit!!!
It's like saving taxdollars. They do the police's work and the police can worry about real crime, then.
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Let's say, theoretically, someone wanted to purchase these jackets. Where would one buy them?
I, er, my friend wants one.
Oh they really chose the perfect city for their testing grounds. LA is probably the city that has the most lawyers per person living there.
Well, if you ever get in trouble with the RIAA in the streets of LA, try the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Here are a few tips from the EFF if you get in trouble with the RIAA.
I wonder if their jackets are copyrighted. It would be funny to find RIAA jackets for sale downtown LA. But then again, who would wear them!
It is not enough to have a good mind. The main thing is to use it well. - Rene Descartes (1637)
Man, that is hilarious. Do they even cart people away in caged vans?
I'd say the folks wearing RIAA jackets might want to watch their backs...
It seams to me that if they make them selfs to look like the cops, that would break a law about impersonating a police, they even said they are "They said they were police from the recording industry." They have no power to do this, this is just some FUD tactics on their part, I am not saying that it is ok to sell bootlegs. Once you start to make money from bootlegs (and from the article it does not seam that the guy was selling bootlegs to his knowledge, they might have been with that upfront cost but that is another story) then you have crossed from fair use to copyright infringement, but still 2 wrongs do not make a right, and the RIAA is really opening them selfs up to major legal problems, but being that they have such a strong lobby group they might not get into trouble.
Is this for real? Who gave them the authority to do this? If I were to plagiarize someone's work of fiction, it doesn't give that person the right to bust into my bookstore and throw things around. There are legal proceedings to be followed. Whatever happened to decency?
Damon,
http://actionPlant.com
In the tradition of the crime-fighting Guardian Angels, how about the Seraphims? They could have pearlwhite-and-gold gang colors...
We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.
Citizen: Um, listening to a record I checked out from the library?
RIAA Cop: "Checked out"? Don't you mean "Used to commit a crime!?"
Citizen: Um, no. I don't think-
RIAA Cop: That's the problem - you don't think! Come with me - we're going to Walmart so you can BUY that record. "Checked out" - I've never heard such a pathetic excuse.
the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
... a private army of Special Ops ready to bust into your house?
It seems like RIAA is populated by the worst managers each one of us have ever worked with, and they let them lose with their crazy ideas, and there's nobody that is sane to reign them in. What a crazy organization.
- sigs are for wimps.
I have to say they really messed up with Kermit's Swamp. I'm still trying to regain my nostalgia for the Muppets.
I don't know -- the RIAA is pretty low, but I don't think even they would want people to confuse them with the LAPD.
Second best quote: "They tried to scare me," Borrayo said. "They told me, 'You're a pirate!' I said, 'C'mon, guys, pirates are all at sea. I just work in a parking lot.'"
When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.
Mark Twain
Next step: Street Vendors selling RIAA-emblazoned jackets. Oh the hilarity!
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
Now we know who to beat up! Anyone wanna bet that some of these guys will be found wandering, naked and confused, with their ass cheeks duct-taped together?
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
For its part, the RIAA maintains that the up-close-and-personal techniques are nothing new. RIAA spokesman Jonathan Lamy says its investigators do not represent themselves as police, and that the incident reports vendors are asked to sign, in which they agree to hand over their discs, explicitly state that the forfeiture is voluntary.
All right boys... Make sure the boots go up above the knees... We're heading into bullshit territory!
If the RIAA isn't trying to look like the police why do they bother hiring ex-police officers, wear clothing similar to raiding police units, and cavort about as some sort of tactical unit? It is obvious to me that they want the "villains" to think they are the cops (and those street vendors, at least for the time being, are going to believe that they are).
Pink slips that say they handed the stuff over voluntarily or not... They are acting as an official force on duty to confiscate material and they want to look as official as possible to have these individuals fork over the material quickly and without issue. If they are so concerned about their property being "stolen" and resold why don't they contact the real police and have them do it? Probably because the real police have better things to do than worry about what is being sold in Chinatown...
Please remember that this is where your money is going when you decide to purchase music that is "owned" by the RIAA... Busting 12 year olds and funding a "tactical unit" to bust street vendors.
My suggestion, as always, is to support FREE MUSIC. FurthurNET and Sharing the Groove
Good luck RIAA and thanks for yet another humorous charade!
...as the vendors might fight back! Those guys can be *mean** if you piss them off...
libertarianswag.com
It appears the RIAA is busting people under color of law. If this is true then it is a big deal. This means that the people they are busting believe they are police. Even if you're not a cop, if you present yourself as one, you are considered a state actor by the courts just like a real cop and can be held civilly liable for violations of civil rights. Private citizens acting in their private interests cannot be held liable under the civil rights statutes (primarily 42 USC 1984) but state actors can.
I'd like to see what is going to happen when they try this is some lower income neigborhoods. I for one recommend the RIAA go to Newark, NJ. I've seen bootleggers on the street, I just hope the RIAA guys are carrying guns also becuase I bet most of the bootleggers there are.
Okay, so lets say they walk into a place that is making counterfit CDs. Do they really have the right to go in and cease all of the counterfit property? I thought that they had to go through proper legal channels to do this. If this is okay for them to do, then why can't the creator of a GPL product bust into a company they know is violating the GPL in thier hardware and just start taking stuff? I'm surprised SCO hasn't started busting into every business and started taking computers with Linux on them... Wearing jackets that say SCO on them. SCO is scarier sounding than RIAA.
obviously trying to scare and confuse people into signing over their goods. who knows what else they got them to sign. ugh! It's clear they don't give a crap how the public views them, most companies would not treat their customers like this.
I remember during the DVDCSS trial in NY, the 2600 legal team took reporters about a block away from the courthouse and showed street vendors selling illegal DVDs. The point (at the time) was it was easier and chaper to get an illegal DVD off a street vendor than it was to copy the DVD to your drive and burn it.
I wear a 'Pirate' Jacket when I bust into Borders and grab CDs. Fair's fair.
"I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
Hello future, the present is calling
...they may all be ex-P.D. Yes, they wear cop-style clothes and carry official-looking IDs. But if they leave people like Borrayo with the impression that they're actual law enforcement, that's a mistake.
From the article this sounds pretty dispicable:
"The RIAA saw it differently. Figuring the discs were bootlegs, a four-man RIAA squad descended on his stand a few days before Christmas and persuaded the 4-foot-11 Borrayo to hand over voluntarily a total of 78 discs.
"They said they were police from the recording industry or something, and next time they'd take me away in handcuffs," he said through an interpreter.
With all the trappings of a police team, including pink incident reports that, among other things, record a vendor's height, weight, hair and eye color"
A disgusting case of intimidation. Way to go RIAA, pick on a 4' 11" guy who hardly knows English.
But is this really any suprise? Plenty of companies have their own private police forces (and small private militaries too) and you still can hire your own army if you've go the cash, which many companies do.
This statement goes a little far in my opinion:
"A large percentage [of the vendors] are of a Hispanic nature," Langley said. "Today he's Jose Rodriguez, tomorrow he's Raul something or other, and tomorrow after that he's something else. These people change their identity all the time."
Which is a polite way of saying: "Those damn shifty Mexicans! They can't be trusted!" You're not the police! If I don't tell you my real name, there's nothing wrong with that, you idiots.
Casual Games/Downloads
Anyone remember the guy who would dress up as a cell phone and run around grabbing the cell phones out of people's hands and then breaking them? If you have a link can you share it here? The looks on the people's faces were priceless. Not that I would promote such behavior =) ice
I guess we're even then.
the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
At least the article details out the main question here, which is: Why is the RIAA acting like the police, when they are not the police?
It's one thing to do a "citizen's arrest" or something similar but it is an entirely different subject to dress up in raid-style commando outfits and go around strong-arming people into doing what you want.
They keep this up, and its only a matter of time before they cross the line. When that happens (and it will), the RIAA will only have hurt themselves.
They're wearing jackets designed to look like police/FBI, but they "aren't claiming to be cops". They just want to make that impression without doing quite enough to get busted for impersonating an officer.
So whats next are they going to start busting into homes like a S.W.A.T. team? Maybe they can higher the A-Team to do their dirty work for them, eh?
Or maybe Lars can lead them into battle singing Unforgiven.... lol
- It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them. - Alfred Adler -
There is a word for one who takes the law into his/her own hands: vigilante.
Esoteric reference.
These people are ejaculating in the face of the court of public opinion.
Well, there you go, boys. Now's your chance!Couldn't ask for a much better target than that, could you? I'll pay $250 per pelt!
Seriously though, at least they're going after people that are actually profiting directly from piracy. Yes, I did RTFA and what that litlte man did was wrong.
Still, it bothers that they've essentially hired mercenaries to do these shakedowns and are impersonating police...
If some dude looking like Arnold walked up to me on the street wearing a leather jacket reading RIAA on the back and said "Your boots... give them to me"... I wouldnt question it. I'd give them up right there no questions asked.
slashdot: where everyone yells sarcastic metaphors to themselves to understand the issue
It may save tax dollars - but it is a step toward private business enforcing it's own laws. Has anyone read Snowcrash (by Neal Steavenson) where the different parts of the city all have their own rent-a-cops that enforce different laws? I realize that the RIAA is attempting to combat piracy - but they should not be making claims like "They said they were police from the recording industry or something, and next time they'd take me away in handcuffs..." (from article).
Taking law into your own hands is not something I want to see happen in America - for example some guy starts pulling over speeders that drive by his house, or a store owner shoots two kids that are shoplifting... Simply put I don't trust the RIAA and most private law enforcement agencies. That is why I pay taxes - so I can have a FAIR and UNBIASED bunch of law enforcement.
That said - I think the guy was an idiot for selling pirated stuff and don't support him one bit - it is the tactics that are being used that scare me.
There is always a frontier where there is an open and willing mind
1. They aren't a government agency
2. They aren't able to imprison anyone
3. They can't take someone else's property without permission to do so.
So what are they?
Impersonating a police officer or other gov't agency is a crime, as well as theft by deception so what is the RIAA?
Criminals!!!
~corporate tool, but employed~
The source looks more like a Weekly World News affiliate, so I wouldn't put too much credence into this story. And I didn't catch this story on CNN or any other news source.
This would be an awesome game. You are an RIAA agent with the jacket, sunglasses and cool weaponry. Your goal is to destroy all things music related. Dude with an MP3 player walking down street listening to music, Blam, cha ching. etc.
RIAA: (Hand reaching into sky, as heart is cluched) AHHhhhhggghh!
Random Chick: Ohh Vendor! Let's do it!
This one act play is brought to you by the stale ideas of the MPAA. Thank you.
Lets go around in greasy t-shirts and ten years worth on unkeept beard growth (the official uniform of the FSF) kicking down the doors of people who violate the GPL and shout "Freeze scumbags, this is the FSF! Hand over your source code into the public domain and no one gets hurt!".
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
Is this a joke? I have a hard time believing this, except that I'm worried it's true.
How is this not a mob? Extortion? Impersonating a police officer? Harassment? Vandalism? I'd like to see the people involed with this arrested and held accountable for the numerous felonies they're committing!
________________________________________________
suwain_2
... Only the uniforms were brown and they were called "Stormtroopers."
Piracy USED to be an economic activity, NOW it's becoming a political statement.
All this so they can sell us more Britney Spears...
If this is true, it's ludicrous. If these cases go to court, I forsee many of these vendors getting off without a hitch. If the RIAA had developed agreements with regional police authorities to work in tandem, then perhaps it would be a good tactic. As it stands, it's simply more scare tactics from an organization that seems bent on making itself the public enemy.
Besides, since when were street vendors the ones that were sharing tens of thousands of tracks per day? I imagine they are hardly the largest part of the problem. Hiring trained security officers to tackle such a small issue is a waste of their money... hmm... wait. Why am I complaining?
Here in NYC, it was hard to find live recordings in our global marketplace's Village record stores during Mayor Rudolph Giuliani's regime. He had his troops go into record stores to confiscate recordings that NYC shoppers can get, despite record companies' failure to release them. Everyone knows that the buyer of an unreleased live recording already owns several official releases, and the live stuff is what keeps us interested between concerts and releases. But rather than building anything that would last, Giuliaini spent our time and money on destroying a free market that threatened no one. Of course it went underground, onto the Internet. And once Sir Rudy had used NYC for our maximum TV exposure, he hitailed it off to Bushland, raising maximum dollars for his Divine Right king. In his absence, the markets reopened - stronger than before, after the culling and Internet retrenchment. Don't let these keystone rentacops scare you - freedom of expression is irrepressible.
--
make install -not war
Does anyone else here think that these EX-cops should be brought up on charges of impersonating a police officer and potentially discrimination (80% of their incidents are against Hispanics and the "officer" interviewed had choice words)? And wouldn't that leave the RIAA open up to liability for potential violation of civil rights and false arrest if the "cops" actually put anyone in handcuffs as they are threatening to?
As long as there is a Second Amendment, there will always be a First Amendment.
This time, maybe they're doing the Right Thing. MP3 files are kinda tangible, so you find hard evidence.
This sig no verb.
Now I have the Doobie Brothers' song "Taking it to the Streets" stuck in my head!
Even as it suffers setbacks in the courtroom, the RIAA has over the last 18 months built up a national staff of ex-cops to crack down on people making and selling illegal CDs in the hood.
I wonder how many members they've added to their staff in this fashion, and at what cost? Are they spending more than they're "recovering"... all in the name of I want to be Friday on Dragnet?
Saying Android is a family of phones is akin to saying Linux is a family of PCs.
http://www.phonebashing.com/
Not only do they pick on a little guy that doesn't know English, they pick on a little guy that doesn't know English who sells cheezy Mexican whatever...
And what's this about recording height and weight and eye color and stuff? Doesn't California have a supposedly decent privacy law of some sort? (If someone can send me a link, I'd appreciate it, as I'm not familiar with it.)
People say I'm crazy, I got diamonds on the soles of my shoes...
It's pretty obvious what they're doing - essentially saying that they have the power to arrest and incarcerate private citizens - and they could end up in some serious legal hot water here. There are all sorts of laws against vigilantism and misrepresenting yourself as an officer of the law. I'd say that this could end up as an even bigger PR mistake than attacking grannies and little kids; there, they were (technically) on the right side of the law. Here, they're blatantly violating the law in order to get what they want. I hope they burn.
Note: I'm not a lawyer. If you need one, get one licensed in your jurisidiction; if you've been hassled by these assholes, you definately need a lawyer. As far as I can tell, this would be a slam-dunk case for a first year law student, let alone an experienced litigator.
That's it. I'm no longer part of Team Sanity.
End of story.
0110100100100000011000010110110100100000011000100
Did anyone else RTFA far down enough to notice the quote from Langley...
"A large percentage [of the vendors] are of a Hispanic nature," Langley said. "Today he's Jose Rodriguez, tomorrow he's Raul something or other, and tomorrow after that he's something else. These people change their identity all the time. A picture's worth a thousand words."
WTF? THESE PEOPLE? Is it just me or does it seem that these guys are trying to prey on immigrant (illegal or otherwise) fears of police authority?
I'd like to see some sort of study of how many people are out hawking pirated wares, broken down by race, versus the race breakdown for the people the RIAA are busting. I know it doesn't matter because they're not actually imposing any authority, but it would be interesting to see the Hispanic community's reaction to the above quotation, and those numbers.
Denver Isuzu Suzuki
Oh, let's count!
And this, my friends, is why, no matter how much we hate them, everyone should have the right to hire an attorney. Otherwise you only get the legal rights they tell you you have.
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
OK, if they have the right to impersonate an officer, when do WE get the right to impersonate an angry mob? Perhaps the long-term goal of RIAA is to get every illegal song swapper and unwitting buyer of pirated goods to wear a little yellow star with "Juden" stenciled in.
Hell, if the government lets them go that far, I am sure ovens and gas chambers in the basement of the Capitol records building in Los Angeles can't be far behind. This is utterly ridiculous. Private police forces and a government too beholden to them to actually say no.
"Curiosity killed the cat, but for a while I was a suspect."- Steven Wright
"A large percentage [of the vendors] are of a Hispanic nature," Langley said. "Today he's Jose Rodriguez, tomorrow he's Raul something or other, and tomorrow after that he's something else. These people change their identity all the time. A picture's worth a thousand words."
Wow, I hope that quote gets plastered in the paper all around the country. How they let this joker talk to anybody in the press is beyond me. 'These people'... America is not real tolerant of those kinds of statements these days.
-t
http://unmoldable.com W:"No one of consequence" I:"I must know" W:"Get used to disappointment"
For its part, the RIAA maintains that the up-close-and-personal techniques are nothing new. RIAA spokesman Jonathan Lamy says its investigators do not represent themselves as police, and that the incident reports vendors are asked to sign, in which they agree to hand over their discs, explicitly state that the forfeiture is voluntary.
So wait... I can go upto someone with my gang of cronies, wearing gang colours that look like uniforms, claim I'm a wallet inspector, take peoples stuff, and as long as they sign something saying it's voluntary, it's all legal?
I think I found myself a new job
When I kept refering to the "Jack-booted thugs of the RIAA terrorizing innocent people," I was speaking figuratively. Who could have known they would take it literally and don real jack-boots? Sorry!
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
"...if they leave people like Borrayo with the impression that they're actual law enforcement, that's a mistake."
Its a mistake they want people to make, so they can intimidate them even easier into giving up what little rights the average citizen has versus a group of pigs like the RIAA. The ex-cops working for them are probably the rejects drummed out of the force for lack of morals, otherwise I don't see how they could accept such misleading representation of themselves.
http://thechubbyferret.net - Ferret pictures and informative links.
""They tried to scare me," Borrayo said. "They told me, 'You're a pirate!' I said, 'C'mon, guys, pirates are all at sea. I just work in a parking lot.' "
This is pretty scary, when are they going to show up to night clubs and bust DJs for public performing the music.
. . . or if they do it is only for the ideas!
-Peter
Mr. Borrayo who voluntarily gave his merchandise away or the RIAA who says they did not represent themselves as the police? If you believe the later, then why have "official badges" to flash, why would Mr. Borrayo have given his products up to the non-authoritative members of the RIAA, and why need to dress up like law enforcement officials?
These RIAA pukes are starting to blur the line between corporation and government.
First they started collected taxes by getting a "you'll probably use these for piracy" fee tacked onto recordable media.
Now they're donning lettered windbreakers to act as law enforcement.
What next, are they going to form their own army and invade Thailand on some WMD (weapons of music duplication) witch hunt??? Where does it end?
~Philly
This GOT to be the coolest thing!
Imagine a mob of Slashdotters, in yellow and black embrazed GNU/FSF TASK FORCE bulletproof vests storming the SCO offices!
"We are PRO's! We HAVE to see your code NOW!"
"/Dread"
I think the biggest problem is that we are addicted to music owned by the RIAA. We are the real losers being the ones funding this insanity with our cool Jimi Hendrix posters and Nirvana CDs. The best move towards the future is to begin focusing freely (and legally so) distributed music by artists who are fed up with this bullshit. The best counter-attack is for the masses to turn against industry and begin supporting independent labels - and for independent labels to work out a deal with the public (i.e. to make music more affordable for the masses).
;)
Ironically, marketing is the best tactic. Finding an effective venue (well of course the internet) might be tricky. But I think the key is for people to stop listening to and paying for shitty ass music
http://www.iuma.com/ -sloppy
Says the LAPD spokesman: "But it doesn't really matter what your status is. If that person feels he was wrongly interrogated or under the false pretense that these people were cops, they should contact their local police station as a victim. We'll sort it all out."
I'll bet the chances of this happening are fairly slim-- about as likely as a crack dealer calling the police to complain that his shipment was intercepted by a rival dealer.
RIAA won't get busted doing this until someone files a complaint, which they won't...
Dressing and acting like cops iis going to get one of these fools shot. Idiots.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
"A large percentage [of the vendors] are of a Hispanic nature," Langley said. "Today he's Jose Rodriguez, tomorrow he's Raul something or other, and tomorrow after that he's something else. These people change their identity all the time. A picture's worth a thousand words."
And a single racial insult should be worth 1000 lawsuits. He's stereotyping many people into a very negative image.
Maybe we'll get "Music COPS" on FOX!
Just imagine...
*cue the "Bad Boys" theme*
Some agents with "Members Only" jackets w/ a big "RIAA" patch embroidered on the back busting down the doors of these hardcore street thugs.
We have secretly replaced these Slashdot mods' sense of humor with a rusty nail. Let's see if they notice!!
*guy walks up to the clerk in a porn shop*
Guy: I'm looking to get hooked up with some of the "good stuff". Ken sent me.
Clerk: Oh. *Looks around to make sure no one is listening and whispers* Go to the back behind the bookshelf there are stairs going down.
Guy: Thanks. RIAA busted most music shops around here. I think you're that last around.
If they stick to this and stop bothering kids who download/share on the internet, I'll actually call this a good turn of events.
See, by busting street vendors, they'll be hassling the REAL pirates, people who are trying to make a dishonest buck off of music, instead of busting college kids who are enthusiasts and fans of music.
"They tried to scare me," Borrayo said. "They told me, 'You're a pirate!' I said, 'C'mon, guys, pirates are all at sea. I just work in a parking lot.' "
You said it! Copyright infringement isn't theft; it's property devaluation.
Of course, since there's no proof this guy was even selling bootlegged wares, he didn't even engage in that.
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
How is playing dress-up and acting like law-enforcement and conducting "shake-downs" professional or clear? Can actual police have anything to say in regard to this? So if I have a industry I can round up a posse to ruffle up some people that I don't like or that I think is causing my business harm?
Nice......bwahahaha! Time to incorporate and kick some Ass!
Sehr geehrter Toilettenbenutzer!
2. When the RIAA thugs come around, video tape the RIAA taking your legal property.
3. Sue and...Profit!
Try and get some non RIAA music confiscated too. Extra ammo.
Sounds like a wonderful lawsuit to me. We'll call it 'The Shoe is on the Other Foot in your Mouth' case.
It's "Laws they OWN," bought and paid for no less...
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
It is starting to sound like they are entering a new area, which will get them in trouble with the anti-racketeering laws put in place to stop organized crime. What rights did they have to confiscate the wares of this particular individual? Did they threaten him and confiscate his goods without authority? This is extortion under current law.
"A large percentage [of the vendors] are of a Hispanic nature," Langley said. "Today he's Jose Rodriguez, tomorrow he's Raul something or other, and tomorrow after that he's something else. These people change their identity all the time. A picture's worth a thousand words."
I'm not for political correctness, and I'm not one to be outraged by racial slurs. But this is blatant racism, isn't it?
An elite tactical unit burst into my company wearing jackets emblazoned with SCO. After photographing the entire staff and taking names, they proceeded to remove all of our computer equipment...
OK, if you have seen my comments before on subjects of the RIAA you probably know I'm all for shutting down illegal distribution of copyrighted materials that license to not allow this to be done - whether it is Kazaa, the former napster, IRC, or a dude on a corner selling the latest filmed in the theater videotape.
But good lord this is insane. This has to violage some law. You can't tell me that they 'accidentally' made themselves look like police officers with the jackets with the TLAs on them. Probably doens't hurt that they're all ex-law enforcement either.
Pretty handy to raid someone where english is a second language too and the cops were feared. I'm sure they didn't make him think they were cops
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
Copyright is a government mandated monopoly. Every time a copied cd or dvd is sold, open markets have scored a victory. Even though the vendors just want a buck, stories of bootleg copyrighted material are something to smile about.
-Libertarian secular transhumanist
anyone else noticed that the entire campaign to get new laws to aid their "war" against their customers will result in the STATE paying to investigate and prosecute copyright violations rather than the copyright owner?
California Penal Code, Section 538d.:
Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that wearing uniforms that resemble generic law enforcement uniforms but are not direct imitations of official uniforms is illegal. Basically, if you aren't using a fake badge or a damn good copy of an official police uniform, I think you can get out of this one under California law. Then, there's the US Code to consider:
As long as they're careful not to represent themselves as being a federal employee, they haven't violated this law either. In other words, it's going to be hard to nail them for crimes unless they do something stupid that's not covered under their little "voluntary" contract that people must sign -- so long as said contract holds up in court as not being signed under duress. Considering that the new RIAA head is from the BATF, I'm pretty sure he's savvy about skirting the laws holding back law enforcement officers as much as possible.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
If anyone has pictures of these jackets, please please please provide a link...
I would like to have one of these if/when this continues and becomes more common. Nothing would make me happier than to don the RIAA jacket and do a little "shopping" around town. I mean, think about it, I'd be about as accountable as they currently are so I can't imagine there being an issue.
I'll elect the people I want in charge of law enforcement in my community, thank you very much!
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
The most aggregious part of this story is the people they are targeting: low-income individuals (read: people who can't afford an attorney to sue the RIAA for the series of torts they are committing). They are also likely targeting non-English-speaking minorities (who already have trouble getting legal representation in this country anyway). They are robbing these people while threatening to put them in jail (which is plain old vanilla extortion (using the threat of criminal prosecution to settle a civil dispute)). The RIAA's thinking "what bootlegger is going to go to the cops and report that we robbed him?" I guess, under this same reasoning, it should be okay to rob drug dealers (who're they going to report the stolen narcotics to)?
Just when I think I'm growing out of my civil libertarian phase, something like this happens. It's behavior like this that makes me really think it's past time to revoke all those nice little copyright interests they've been granted over the years. We need to raise the issue of "intellectual property right reform" in the presidential and congressional races, and see if there's a politician out there who's not eagerly bending over the table for the media giants.
I know a guy that bought an old State Patrol car that was up for auction. It had all of the decals and special lights removed. Well except for the spotlight on the side. He took this car (read official looking equipment) and drove by the sight of a late night beer party that was out in the country real slow while shining the spotlight out into the trees. (read acting like the police.) And laughed at all of the minors running for it. He wasn't laughing when the real police showed up on his doorstep and arrested him for impersonating a police officer.
The RIAA has hired people to wear official looking police close, and act like police. I would bet that they have broken the law. Someone should be hauled in front of a Judge.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
What's next, dispatching the RIAA goon squad to record stores that refuse to stock the latest release by Britney or other RIAA-endorsed "artist"?
I stopped buying music years ago. I stopped going to the movies years ago. I stopped listening to the radio years ago and I stopped watching TV years ago.
I have enough already and the new stuff is just manufactured hype-du-jour to fill in time between the commercials.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
I thought vigilante justice was illegal....if not...why the hell am I sitting at home while my pitchfork collects dust? There are plenty of scumbags to jab, like SCO, RIAA, etc.
Should have never posted this on slashdot.org, I am now expecting some SCO employee with SCO shirts to show up and take my linux machines.
First, remember opinion != troll.
Going after people who are making money selling other peoples works without permission are exactly what copyright laws were established to do, protect the artist. So as long as they are clear that they aren't cops, I don't see a huge problem with this.
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
That ought to be a real legal nightmare. They ought to try to go into Compton and crack down on the illegal video and audio "industries" there. I guess they are smarter than that, although not much smarter than that by the looks of things.
They might as well wear jackets emblazoned with "Please kick my ass"
A witty saying proves you are wittier than the next guy.
Looks like my EFF Swat hat will come in handy, after all! I'm really glad I donated this year.
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
I've heard that they're going to force all European record shops selling US artists' work to have at least two "Disc Marshalls" on every shift...
On the other hand, the shirts do come in a nice plastic jewel box.
Soylent Green is peoplicious!
One of the most important jobs of the RIAA is to investigate the illegal production and distribution of sound recordings. It is estimated that such illegal product costs the music industry more than 300 million dollars a year domestically. The RIAA pursues a global policy comprised of education, enforcement, developing technologies, and when necessary, litigation.
The RIAA assists authorities in identifying music pirates and shutting down their operations. In piracy cases involving physical product, the RIAA works with federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies and prosecutors? offices to coordinate seizures of pirated product. The RIAA-assisted raids have closed down hundreds of U.S. and overseas manufacturing and distributing operations, and significantly reduced illegal CD and cassette vending around the country.
So I guess they need to update it to inclue "taking the law into our own hands".
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
"A large percentage [of the vendors] are of a Hispanic nature," Langley said. "Today he's Jose Rodriguez, tomorrow he's Raul something or other, and tomorrow after that he's something else. These people change their identity all the time. A picture's worth a thousand words."
"These people"?? If questioned, I'd bet money that Mr. Langley would argue that he's talking about "these [dirty communist CD pirates]", but that quote could easily be read as "these [Hispanic people]".
That's suspiciously akin to what it might look like if the US law enforcement community as a whole started to look more carefully at people of Arab descent every time a security check at an airport was called for, for instance...
Oh, wait, at least that's the actual US law enforcement, whether or not I agree with it. We're talking about the "music police" here. Can we at least use the Chewbacca Defense against this kind of FUD?
"Linux doesn't exist. Everyone knows Linux is an unlicensed version of Unix"- Kieren O'Shaughnessy
I'd laugh my ass off if these law-enforcement-agent-impersonators were to approach some mexican, and the hombre were to whip out a gun and start threatening 'em with it. Then, they'd all run away. That'd be great.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
"We want to be very clear who we are and what we?re doing," says John Langley, Western regional coordinator for the RIAA Anti-Piracy Unit. "First and foremost, we?re professionals."
Freaking hilarious! And what does this imply, that cops *aren't* professionals? Also, they're *not* professionals, unless the RIAA have had a rent-a-cop outfit for longer than a few months, in which case they're "rank amateurs." If I put on a jacket that says "TLLE" (for Txiasaeia's Local Law Enforcement"), does that make me a professional?
RIAA, we already hate you. You can stop inciting our wrath any day now.
Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
First- Fighting the Mafia
Second- The War on Drugs
Next- The War on Pirates
"Don't worry about people stealing an idea. If it's original, you will have to ram it down their throats." --Howard Aike
The victim in this case, who doesn't speak English and who allegedly got caught up in selling bootlegs, isn't exactly the most reliable source. He's not necessarily lying, but he may be mistaken in what occurred. For example, he may have confused the RIAA enforcers' claim that they'd go to the police and get this guy arrested with a claim that the RIAA enforcers would be arresting him.
Now I won't say for sure that the RIAA enforcers didn't overstep their legal bounds, but simply taking the victims word at face value in this case is a bit unfair.
A cadre of license-enforcement officers wearing jackets emblazoned with "SCO" descended on a small Seattle Wi-Fi coffee shop today, using scare tactics and intimidation to 'examine software installed on all machines on the premises to determine its legality'. After being pummeled senseless by a geek in a penguin suit, the 'officers' were taken to a nearby hospital. Although their injuries were initially reported as "minor" by paramedics, they mysteriously were downgraded to "critical" shortly after entering the Emergency Triage unit. Currently, all officers are on life support, ironically, the machines are all IBM.
In other news...
Linux founder and Guru Linus Torvalds took a brief trip to the hospital today, after a brief appearance as the Linux Mascot at a local cafe resulted in minor dehydration. He was released shortly after. Asked to make a statement, Mr Torvalds would only state "I felt kind of weak when I went in, but now I feel great!".
In other news...
Generic Mid-Town Hospital suffered a minor interruption in service today when their internal network unexpectedly disconnected all attached equipment. The local systems administrator had no explanation for the event, calling it "a damn shame" that a few patients in the CCU had suffered further trauma as a result of the equipment outage. When asked if he had any clues, the sysadmin mysteriously pointed to an obviously-chewed network cable and a penguin sock puppet, and said "He made me". Police are currently searching for the sock puppet.
If I knew the wedgies I gave you back in 6th grade would have resulted in this . . . I might have taken a moments pause.
I have yet to read *one* post suggesting any type of alternative that the RIAA can try (maybe subpeonaing street vendors, working with real law-enforcement in stings, etc).
Why don't you break in my house and steal something?...you'll find out I'm neither.
Look it up, wanting to protect one's property does not qualify one as a psychopath I assure you. On the other hand, thinking you have the right to take whatever you want from anyone will work towards defining you as a psychopath....what does that make you?
A modern day witchhunt.
There's a highly insightful recent Matthew Scudder short story by Lawrence Block, "Batman's Helpers", about the private IP rent-a-cops who roust street vendors and confiscate their merchandise in NYC. The story has been reprinted widely; Google for details. I admire Block for tackling this obscure (to most) topic.
>'You're a pirate!' I said, 'C'mon, guys, pirates are all at
>sea. I just work in a parking lot.' "
What a great line!
The thought of going out anf finding people violating copyright laws for profit is a swell idea in practice.
However, pretending to be cops is, lats I checked, illegal. Just because you say "We're not police" doesnt mean a whole helluva lot when you're dressed like a narcotics team and the average IQ of your everyday joe hovers just slightly above that of a rock.
i'm just sayin'.
s'wut i sed.
This is definately the best quote from the article:
"They tried to scare me," Borrayo said. "They told me, 'You're a pirate!' I said, 'C'mon, guys, pirates are all at sea. I just work in a parking lot.' "
FoundNews.com - get paid to blog.,
Here's a few choice quotes:
RIAA:"A large percentage [of the vendors] are of a Hispanic nature," Langley said. "Today he's Jose Rodriguez, tomorrow he's Raul something or other, and tomorrow after that he's something else. These people change their identity all the time. A picture's worth a thousand words."
Racism, anyone?
How about this gem, regarding parading around looking like cops, but not being cops:
RIAA:If that person feels he was wrongly interrogated or under the false pretense that these people were cops, they should contact their local police station as a victim. We'll sort it all out.
Riiiiiiiight. Make sure you have your receipts on you before you try this one, kids.
It used to be fun to tow the Slashdot line and bash the RIAA for being evil...but you know what? They actually are evil. This is some pretty twisted shit. Racial profiling, impersonating the police, harassment, photographing likely suspects...unbelieveable.
Weaselmancer
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Uh, Excuse me, but what version of the kernel are you running? Right. I need to confiscate the computer, its case, the papers you were using with it, and your eyeballs - as they saw it. We may at a later date need your hands.
Exercise your right not to vote. thinkoutside.org
Modded as funny but...
Some of the busts of CD-copying have been of rather major rings. That guy on the street-corner might just be an independant, but where is he getting his CD's from. This is like the kazaa-kiddies at home, some of these guys are affiliated with dangerous gangs.
So what happens when those selling the CD's start losing revenue because of RIAA "police." What happens when they plant armed vendors or wait in a dark corner for the RIAA to show.
Do the RIAA cops have guns hidden somewhere on their person? Probably not, especially not legally. Could some of those involved in the underground CD market have guns? Almost certainly.
From an amazon reviewer: "The penalty for selling someone else's intellectual property in Jeter's world is to have one's brain and spinal cord forcefully removed and placed on life support. The offender's still-living, still-aware neural tissue is then used to make stereo cables or to control small household appliances for the personal amusement of the artist or author that was wronged."
Obviously not what we have here, but maybe a cautionary tale, in the vein of 1984 and a brave new world. The rest of the book isn't bad either, sort of a film noir book merged with bladerunner...
just curious where to look for truly independent/alternative[-to-the-riaa] music :)
Lets hope SCO doesn't get any ideas from this...
I seem to remember a slew of jokes about the RIAA police running around busting people over the past few years. Strange how the RIAA is acting according to the most cynical perceptions people have of them.
I was in NYC a few months ago, and I was amazed at how many vendors were selling bootleg copies of movies that were in the theater, including some that has just been released a few days prior.
What amazed me is how RIAA/MPAA was suing all these internet pirates who made $0 from file trading, and yet did not go after those who DID make money from piracy. Even if you take into account there is more online piracy than real-world, its a lot easier to go down the street, find someone selling a movie on a street corner, than it is to grab their IP, and go through the various legal steps to get that person's information.
Jail time, yes, but not from the RIAA - a felony is dealt with by the relevant law enforcement agency.
All the RIAA is entitled to is redress for lost sales and destruction of merchandise.
Exercise your right not to vote. thinkoutside.org
"A large percentage [of the vendors] are of a Hispanic nature," Langley said. "Today hes Jose Rodriguez, tomorrow hes Raul something or other, and tomorrow after that hes something else. These people change their identity all the time. A pictures worth a thousand words."
O... M... F... G...
SCO employee? Check out the bounty
Those jackets will just make them a much better target.
crazy legs gonna mess them up!
I'm a rabbit startled by the headlights of life
Considering they're mainly Hispanics, will these descriptions be particularly useful for differentiating specific people?
Are the RIAA 'cops' making citizen's arrests?
From the article:
"They said they were police from the recording industry or something, and next time they'd take me away in handcuffs," he said through an interpreter.
Then:
the incident reports vendors are asked to sign, in which they agree to hand over their discs, explicitly state that the forfeiture is voluntary.
I'm sure that the paper trail that the RIAA says it's building up is all going to be bi-lingual. The more helpless college students and parking lot attendants the RIAA picks on, the more I hate them. Not that I pirate music, no sir. What, this, it's um, just a free AOL CD...
Why should I argue rationally with someone being irrational? I'll just mock them instead.
It's becoming obvious the RIAA cares not at all about the anger that many people harbor concerning the out of control tactics this organization relies on. And I think the reason they don't care is that while people complain, they keep buying records. I'd love to see a widespread organized boycott of RIAA-represented artists but haven't really heard anything alomg those lines. Do any of you /.'ers also think this might be an effective tact? Or do you know of any groups/organizations that are working in this area?
You are so boring that when I see you my feet go to sleep.
Isn't this like the Members Only jackets from the 80s? Where can I get one!?!
The people who wear that stuff usually look like losers.
I'm sure a large number of people here would love to see the RIAA destroyed, or at least thrashed soundly... well this sure looks like the opportunity! What they're doing here is obviously wrong, and legal action should be taken, because, it'll probably end badly for the RIAA if it happens. If the legal avenue is too far corrupt to smack them down for this, how about press? I'd love to see this make national TV news, headlines in papers, interviews with the victims, etc...
I donate yearly to the EFF, and I'll gladly send a donation to an organization or project established to destroy them right here and now. And I'll proselytise to my friends and family to do the same... bring it.
I can't see how this could be legal. If they laid their hands on me or my property then I'm sure it'd be grounds for all sorts of lawsuits. Heck the guy should fall over and make sure he skins his knee etc...
But in the meantime, just to be safe, I think I'd better become a member of Mr. Lee's Greater Hong Kong! Then maybe I could get some protection!
Thinkgeek probably. They already have anti-RIAA memorabilia available.... why not add pro-RIAA street posse clothes?
"There is no spoon." - The Matrix
Well, they have the guy from the BATF running the anti-piracy wing now, right?
Expect more of this 'agency-esque' antics....
---- Booth was a patriot ----
"I'm all for the taking down of the major bootleggers, but this is utterly criminal. These people have zero authority to enforce any laws, anywhere. It's a PR blitz that will hopefully backfire."
It's a shame that weapons laws in higher-density cities aren't like those in Arizona, where anyone can carry openly, and people can carry concealed with a fairly easy to acquire permit. I could just see a bunch of thugs in RIAA jackets walking up to a street vendor, start harassing him, only to watch the vendor pull out a couple of 9mm's and blow them all away...
Remember, the burden of proof of copyright violation is supposed to be on the copyright holder, and must be proved before a court of law. A bunch of dudes walking up aren't technically allowed to force anything more than a served subpoena.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Someone should put together the whole thing:
- Jackets (with RIAA on back)
- Dark Sunglasses
- "Official" Incident reports (with pink copies)
- Camera
- Tape Measure & Scale
- Holsters with realistic looking fake guns
- Holsters with handcuffs
- RIAA labelled boxes to haul away goods
All you have to supply is the attitude.
Invalid Checksum. Retrying.
It might just work in their favor, they want to appear to be an 'enforcement' agency.. ( they sure as hell act like they are ).
If they do this enough, the public might just assume they are an 'governmental agency' and bend over on command.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
If I got busted by a guy in a RIAA jacket, I'd be looking around for Ashton Kucher.
--Brian
Sounds like a brute squad to me...
(Dons flame retardant suit)
Public domain? That has not been properly infected by the GPL. The FSF police are on their way to your house as I type this.
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
1. Garage Band makes a bunch of CDs of there band and sets up a stand selling them.
:)
2. RIAA busts them and takes all their CDs.
3. Garage Band sues RIAA for one billion dollars and becomes famous.
4 Profit!
Yes it is one extra step but I think it is worth it
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Well, it looks like the RIAA goes from one scare tactic to the next. Dressing and acting like cops will obviously be enough to scare barely english speaking immigrants into giving up their goods. Personally, what I would do is just run and if the RIAA stormtroopers chased me or physically took me down, I would be the one sueing RIAA. All I have to say to the ex-PDs who have this job is: what a waste of good talent. They roam around the streets confiscating crappy spanish DVDs and CDs (that probably wouldn't sell for more than $5 or just clog up storage rooms) from dealers like they were selling crack to children, all to make the RIAA fat cats another nickle. All the while, these men and women could be using their talents to persue real crack dealers and do some real good in this world, instead of making the rich richer. Hopefully, anyone working in this position will seriously consider finding a better job and doing humanity some good.
SIGFAULT
Finally the prelude to "corporate policing" where in the corporations relieve the tax payer of the burden of enforcing copyrights and leaves it up to the corporation whose copyright has been infringed.
It makes so much sense it's almost scary we didn't think of it before, finally Sony, Microsoft, and others will have a global "security" force and if they lobby it right the will have full powers to engage, enforce, incarcerate.
I have to go now I'm late for my chip implant (it's the new visa chip)
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
From the article: "Figuring the disks were bootlegs, a four-man RIAA squad ... persuaded [him] to hand over voluntarily a total of 78 disks."
"No, no Your Honor - I'm not a bank robber! Figuring the money in that bank was all counterfeit, I simply persuaded the teller to voluntarily hand over all the money."
I think a few lawyers need to follow the RIAA teams, then when they spot a bootleg vendor, run ahead and offer them a flat rate debunk-the-RIAA-hit-squad package!
You cant make anything foolproof, they'll only invent better fools.
in spirit, if not the letter.
They make themselves look like police officers but they never identify themselves as police and don't wear uniforms. This way, they can claim that they aren't impersonating police officers, which is illegal.
They threatened the vendor and took his "contraband" but they turned it into an out-of-court legal settlement by getting him to sign the appropriate documents. This way, it's technically not vigilantism, even though that's the intent.
I have no doubt they've hired the best people available to keep them just barely on the legal side of the line. Convincing a jury that this is criminal activity will be a hard sell, and proving that the RIAA's upper management ordered the illegal actions will be even harder. Still, it would restore my faith in humanity to see the RIAA's leadership doing hard time for this.
This just stinks, but have seen this before.
Max Headroom, and the mediacops, all that is missing is Network23 and the "You are the jury" game show.
"A large percentage [of the vendors] are of a Hispanic nature," Langley said. "Today he's Jose Rodriguez, tomorrow he's Raul something or other, and tomorrow after that he's something else. These people change their identity all the time. A picture's worth a thousand words."
Very impressive RIAA, way to stick the old foot in the mouth at every possible opportunity.
I'm almost tempted to go sell some mix CDs that contain uncopyrighted music up there in Silver Lake just in the hope these asshats come calling. It would be my SUPREME pleasure to tell them to stuff it.
LAPD has discovered a gruesome scene, several ex police officers were found dead today. Each was found with no jacket or wallet. Each was also found to have a badge that said RIAA inserted in their rectums. If anyone has information about this crime, call 1-800 WHO CARES.
This actually doesn't bother me a lot, considering that the people they're going after ARE the criminal ones. What -would- bother me is if they decided to come knocking on my door for my recordings of "24" from my TV.
In that case, I'd take G. Gordon's advice. "Aim for the head." Wanna play cop, RIAA? There's your chance.
My own pointless vanity vintage computing page
"the internet must be self policing. Keep government out of private property and transactions!"
but
"the RIAA must use established law enforecement!"
What do suppose will happen when one of these "RIAA cops" do some sort of physical injury to someone, or
gets injured themself by an excited detainee.
Obviously RIAA hasen't given much thought about the
ramifications of their actions. Just like mom used to tell you when you were running with sissors...Its all fun and games until someone loses an eye!
The NYPD has had an active anti-piracy campaign for years. I took part in a raid that included the NYPD, a couple of Feds and a handful of MPAA people on a place cloning videotapes in 1993-94. Maybe the RIAA has never done this type of thing before, but the MPAA was doing it a decade ago (or more). We also used to nab street vendors of CDs and videos w/o the MPAA or Feds involved.
"A large percentage [of the vendors] are of a Hispanic nature," Langley said. "Today he's Jose Rodriguez, tomorrow he's Raul something or other, and tomorrow after that he's something else. These people change their identity all the time..."
So, do I take it that they feel that Hispanics are not to be trusted? Quite a blanket statement about a minority group. I'm suprised he didn't say that blacks are too busy selling crack to sell low profit bootlegged CD's...
--- This
Legal or not, anything that causes confusion about what is and what is not a true law enforcement officer is bad news. It could easily lead to a death. If I were LAPD I would have a long talk with RIAA.
from the article 9th paragraph.
Physics makes the world go 'round.
> In the article, the RIAA "enforcers" claim they don't try to create the idea that they're a police
> force. Why, then, would a victim say that, "They said they were police from the recording industry or
> something, and next time they'd take me away in handcuffs."?
Well, while they may not actually say they're some sort of police force, they're obviously as heck trying to encourage people to come to that conclusion on their own, and sounds like they do nothing to specifically deny they are an official police force. Plus, I myself would take being told they have the right to take someone away in handcuffs next time, that is specifically implying they are an official police force.
Why? Who else has the legal right to come into someone's home or place of business and take that person away in handcuffs? Only the actual real-life police and federal agents right?
So anyone saying they have the right to take a guy away in handcuffs is implicitly telling that guy they are the police.
While I think they are goin gin the right direction by going after people involved with making money off illegal copies, I don't like their methodology of impersonating on-duty police officers.
If they were accompanied by a real-life on-duty police officer in the right jurisdiction, and that guy alone was doing the talking about handcuffs and such, that'd make more sense. Having a subpeona (sp??) along for the ride with the real cop makes even more sense. But with no subpeona and no real cop, it reaks of impersonation, whether they actually say they are cops or not, the snazzy costumes are obviously intended to confuse the particular people they are visiting.
...only mine will say F.U.R.I.A.A
Regardless of the legality of what has been reported on so far. It will only take on instance of violence to snip these types of raids in the bud.
All it will take is one of the Vendors to stand up and say "fuck off", or smack one of the raiders around. These are retired Cops that have been reported to be doing this. Retired or not, you give a Police Officer enough lip and he will react, either physically or maybe with less-than-lethal weapons. The raiders have to be taking their safety into consideration, so I'd imaging they would have some sort of less-than-lethal weapon to aid them in emergencies. Once that happens, the LADP or other local police will step in with criminal charges, and clear the matter up. The article points this out. The fine legal lines the RIAA are walking with impersonating police will not hold up when violence is involved.
It is hard to believe just how jaded the RIAA has become, for them to think that these raids will continue to work. They have been very lucky to escape charges so far, but I doubt that will continue.
The work is copyrighted for the author's life plus 70 years. If the material was created under a work for hire agreement, the copyright lasts 95 years from first publication, or 120 years from creation, whichever expires first.
However, it may be more realistic to say that nothing produced after "Steamboat Willy" will ever enter the public domain without the consent of the author (Lex Disney).
"The process of confiscating bootleg CDs from street vendors is exactly what the RIAA should be doing," said Jason Schultz, a staff attorney for the San Francisco-based Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF).
No. Confiscation should be left up to the courts. The RIAA should, if it feels it has a valid complaint, report it to the authorities. Confiscation, by a corporation or private individual, should never be allowed. At the point they are doing this, nothing has been proven in a court of law. Due process, people.
To celebrate this next level of anti-piracy lunacy, the RIAA is going to release a new version of the Beastie Boys video starring real live RIAA Enforcers. (Paying all appropriate royalties, of course.) .
...///...
Picture of the RIAA during a bust.
7:43 am. Stakeout at corner of Vine and Pearl.
We surveilled the suspect from approximately 6:00 am until five minutes ago. To keep us entertained, I played properly-licensed music on the car CD player, with the retail receipt taped to the dashboard as an example to passersby. Had it been necessary to answer a subpeona, I could have also produced my Visa bill to show proof of purchase in a New York minute.
7:45 am. Peddle to the metal.
We flew from the car with our RIAA jackets flapping like superhero capes, as Fuggin' A bore down on the suspect screaming, "Gimme a reason, you infringing scum!" The suspect, a man in a strangely colored shirt who stood behind a small card table piled high with CDs and plush animal toys, pretended not to understand. He was, he said, just "minding" the table for someone else. "Then you won't mind if I confiscate this evidence," I said, shoveling the contraband into a Hefty bag. "We'll see if you also don't 'mind' fines of up to $20,000 per infringement for taking food out of the mouth of Britney Spears and P. Diddley!"
7:58 am. Donut break.
After the bust, we had to put the chill on some extra endorphins so we parked it at Crispy Creme. Forensic science is increasingly important to the battle to keep America's recording artists off of the unemployment line, and I personally submitted 12 glazed red jellies for internal analysis. Conclusion: inconclusive. Further study needed.
8:37. Dorm room infiltration.
Espionage is not only for defending the Homeland; it's also for defending the rightful profits of Homieland from hip-hop fans who like the pizzle shizzle but don't like to pay for it. With Fuggin' A and I dressed in Outkast t-shirts, we cleverly slipped onto campus posing as eager out-of-town P2P traders keen to shift some "gigabytes." We soon met a contact, a dyspeptic young caucasian male with dreadlocks, who assured us that it was "all good," and in no time took us to a dorm room where his confederates in infringement sat around their computer cackling like Al Qaeda operatives planning to destroy our way of life by blowing up the set of "American Idol." These evildoers made my skin crawl, but I concentrated on not blowing my cover.
"Ok, man," said our surly contact. "How much you want?"
Here my training kicked into gear. I'd rehearsed and rehearsed for this moment.
"Er, uh, want? Say, all we want is to upload and download! Music, uh, wants to be pay- and royalty-free! Yo!"
"Huh? Ain't you got the shit? Panamanian, right?"
"Who are these middle-aged assh0les," grumbled one of the crew.
"We're..."
Then Fuggin A' ripped off his disguise, revealing his fiercesome jacket.
"RIAA! RIAA! Down on the floor! Down on the floor!"
What happened next, you can never rehearse for...
1:45 pm. Emergency room, visitor's lobby.
They say that Fuggin' A will be all right, thank God, and that he will be able to make regular bowel movements in time. The jacket can't be reused, unfortunately; it will be cleaned and retired, and possibly go on tour in the nation's schools as an object lesson for our impressionable youth. But watch out, evildoers - we have more jackets where that one came from!
Take this for instance:
"They said they were police from the recording industry or something, and next time they'd take me away in handcuffs," he said through an interpreter.
If the RIAA does not have any legal authority to say that, doesn't that make them guilty of several criminal charges?
First, the RIAA's jackbooted thugs go about stealing the illgotten gains of other thieves (as the RIAA are also thieves) next it'll be Microsoft hunting you down for copying Windows 2009 aka Longhorn.
The USA is sinking into a twitchy morass of libertarianism gone haywire, all to benefit the Rich. the rest are dupes, whiners, or wannabes.
Next horrible prophecy: organised crime goes after the personal possessions of RIAA execs. Expect to find a bunch of melted CDs at the foot of the bed. If they don't back off and go after the little guy, then you could see some heads roll. Literally.
RS
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
Much as we hate them, if some street vendor is hawking $3 knockoffs of Britney's latest sludge the RIAA has the right to offer the vendor the choice of turning over the goods or face an expensive copyright infringement suit. It's really no different from the guys who sell you counterfeit $20 Rolexes.
This might also be the basis for their "amnesty" program. Destroy your downloaded MP3s, promise never to download again and we'll let you off the hook.
That said, I think using the rentacops is pretty sleazy and just as bad as the security companies who dress their "officers" up in uniforms closely resembling the local cops' and have them drive around in cars painted to look like police vehicles with "Thugmeister Security" in place of "Metro Police." (The courts here ruled that particular dodge to be illegal, by the way, for reasons you can probably guess.)
Someone you trust is one of us.
In Lee Corso fashion... "Not so fast!" Let's read on about 13-405, 13-406, and 13-411:
13-404. Justification; self-defense
A. Except as provided in subsection B of this section, a person is justified in threatening or using physical force against another when and to the extent a reasonable person would believe that physical force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful physical force.
B. The threat or use of physical force against another is not justified:
1) In response to verbal provocation alone; or
2) To resist an arrest that the person knows or should know is being made by a peace officer or by a person acting in a peace officer's presence and at his direction, whether the arrest is lawful or unlawful, unless the physical force used by the peace officer exceeds that allowed by law; or
3) If the person provoked the other's use or attempted use of unlawful physical force, unless:
a) The person withdraws from the encounter or clearly communicates to the other his intent to do so reasonably believing he cannot safely withdraw from the encounter; and
b) The other nevertheless continues or attempts to use unlawful physical force against the person.
13-405. Justification; use of deadly physical force
A person is justified in threatening or using deadly physical force against another:
1. If such person would be justified in threatening or using physical force against the other under 13-404, and
2. When and to the degree a reasonable person would believe that deadly physical force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly physical force.
13-406. Justification; defense of a third person
A person is justified in threatening or using physical force or deadly physical force against another to protect a third person if:
1. Under the circumstances as a reasonable person would believe them to be, such person would be justified under 13-404 or 13-405 in threatening or using physical force or deadly physical force to protect himself against the unlawful physical force or deadly physical force a reasonable person would believe is threatening the third person he seeks to protect; and
2. A reasonable person would believe that such person's intervention is immediately necessary to protect the third person.
13-411. Justification; use of force in crime prevention
A. A person is justified in threatening or using both physical force and deadly physical force against another if and to the extent the person reasonably believes that physical force or deadly physical force is immediately necessary to prevent the other's commission of arson of an occupied structure under 13-1704, burglary in the second or first degree under 13-1507 or 13-1508, kidnapping under 13-1304, manslaughter under 13-1103, second or first degree murder under 13-1104 or 13-1105, sexual conduct with a minor under 13-1405, sexual assault under 13-1406, child molestation under 13-1410, armed robbery under 13-1904, or aggravated assault under 13-1204, subsection A, paragraphs 1 and 2.
B. There is no duty to retreat before threatening or using deadly physical force justified by subsection A of this section.
C. A person is presumed to be acting reasonably for the purposes of this section if he is acting to prevent the commission of any of the offenses listed in subsection A of this section.
I put relevant pieces in bold. It looks like most of the use of deadly force falls under self defense. The only part that seems relevant is the reference to "burglary in the second or first degree under 13-1507 or 13-1508" of which are not available in that webpage so I am not sure of the 'shooting the guy stealing your car out of your driveway' scenario is covered.
Depending where you live, it can be legal to shoot a car jacker. Here in louisiana we have "shoot the car jacker" laws where you're allowed to shoot to kill when someone tries to steal your car. As for theft, we also have "shoot the burglar" laws too for when a thief enters your home.
One entry found for entrapment.
Main Entry: entrapment
Pronunciation: -m&nt
Function: noun
Date: 1597
1 a : the action or process of entrapping b : the condition of being entrapped
2 : the action of luring an individual into committing a crime in order to prosecute the person for it
As for the legal definition, I believe it's more along the lines of: If the cops set up a lure car and you try to steal it then they bust you, that is fine. You decided to steal the car (or, in the analogy, rough up a street vendor) of your own volition.
Legal entrapment is more like the cops setting up the "lure car" then an officer (undercover) coming up to you and saying "Hey man.. that car over there is unlocked.. wanna steal it?" Then busting you.
The grandparent post has a good strategy - set up a legal street vendor, then sue the shit out of the thugs (RIAA) that harass them.
There are two kinds of people: 1) those that need closure
There are differing views on citizen's arrest, as to what is allowed and what is not.
Click here for one view. This shows that is is legal to detain someone and take them to the proper authorities.
However this link indicates that taking this kind of action may expose you to lawsuits for assult, and you should just report the crime.
The problem is that with the RIAA it may have never gotten this far. They did not attempt to detain the guy or take him down to the station or even report him. They just threated him and he signed over his property. What would be more interesting to see is how the RIAA reacts if the person refuses all their requests. What would they do?
A. Report the person to the police.
B. Do A. but put him in cuffs wait for the police.
C. Drag the guy down to the police station.
If they just did A there would certainly be no problem, but B or C could be questionable especially if they go ahead and take away the CD's and DVD without permission. I am sure once the word gets out that they aren't real cops that they will be challenged in a hurry.
-
Change the Law
While the US Constitution allows congress to create copyright, it doesn't require it to do so. Peer-to-peer filesharing, and burning copies of your buddy's CD collection could be legalized tomorrow if you can get the votes in Congress to repeal the copyright laws.If you think that can't happen, consider that more Americans are sharing files with peer-to-peer applications than voted for George Bush.
The steps my article suggest you take to bring about copyright reform include:
- Speak Out
- Vote
- Write to Your Elected Representatives
- Donate Money to Political Campaigns
- Support Campaign Finance Reform
- Join the Electronic Frontier Foundation
- Practice Civil Disobedience
It is my objective that my article noticably impact the upcoming US presidential and congressional elections. I think that could happen if every US p2p user were to read the article by November. While the article is popular, it would have to get read far more frequently than is presently the case for sixty million Americans to have read it by november.If you agree with me, please have a look at What You Can Do to Help.
Thank you for your attention.
Request your free CD of my piano music.
...staff of ex-cops
...Figur[ed] the discs were bootlegs
..."They said they were police from the recording industry or something..."
- But if they leave people like Borrayo with the impression that they're actual law enforcement, that's a mistake.
NEGATIVE. That's a FELONY.- oversees
... contractors who sniff out bootleg discs
Apparently without a nose... Did they have any proof other than a hispanic male selling CDs and DVDs from a parking lot booth? They didn't "figure" anything; they blindly assumed guilt based on the person and the place.- the incident reports
... explicitly state that the forfeiture is voluntary
Voluntary my ass! A bunch a dudes dressed and behaving like cops "asking" you to hand over your stuff. Right. And I bet they don't carry any weapons either.continued sale would be a violation of civil and criminal codes (like it isn't aleady?)
- The process of confiscating bootleg CDs from street vendors is exactly what the RIAA should be doing," said Jason Schultz
Wrong, Mr. Schultz. RIAA is not a law enforcement division. They have no more right than any other citizen to "confiscate" another persons property.RIAA shill: you're illegally selling our copywrited material!
vendor: what do you mean? do you own the letters RIAA?
it's too bad halloween just passed, i'd love to be an RIAA bad cop!
I love how these things always turn into cries of "...for the children!". Go away. Perhaps you should have been shot as a child...you're obviously a thief.
A modern day witchhunt.
Have at it
Yeah, right.
Laws vary from state to state. Personally, regardless of what any law says, my (and I'm only speaking for myself) argument is simply that a person should be able to protect his own property, and that, in most cases, use of violent force is the only reasonable method to do so. (Personally, I'm no kung-fu expert)
A modern day witchhunt.
The RIAA is a membership organization. Their member list is online (it looks like a lot, but in fact most entries are labels that are owned by fewer than a dozen major media publishers).
They might have a contractual basis for enforcing copyright violations by their member organizations (i.e., Sony and Warner). The have NO basis for enforcing copyright violations by other publishers.
For the RIAA jack-booted thugs to enforce for labels or artists they don't represent is the same as you or I enforcing, on behalf of someone else. There's just no basis. Under the copyright law (US Title 17 USC, it's the infringed party that needs to pursue action -- not ANY party, and generally not even law enforcement (at least for garden variety copyright infringement....the feds get called in for fraud, for when banks are involved, and other cases).
In the LA Times article, the only title specifically mentioned was some sort of Latino hits from the 70s and 80s. Chances are that material is not represented by the RIAA. At a community radio station I worked with, the music directors decided not to put any RIAA member music on the play list. Know what? It turned out 80% was not, already! The other 20% wasn't painful at all - it was just a matter of putting it on another shelf, rather than the playlist shelf.
In short, there is a LOT of music that is not represented by the RIAA (a far higher proportion than video that's not represented by the MPAA). They have no business getting involved in any kind of enforcement action for artists or labels they don't have a relationship with.
Has anyone read Snowcrash (by Neal Steavenson)...?
Asking that question on Slashdot seems akin to walking into the Vatican and asking, "Hey, anyone here Catholic?"
A company is only made up of people. If enough get a clue that real people think they, as individuals, are scum, perhaps the company's views might change. Not many employees can cope with being constantly told how awful they are as a person because of their boss' descisions, day after day.
Without a good proposal for some other way to address the problems that copyright law addresses, this has no chance.
Not only should they have had the right...right now I'm kinda wishing they had.
A modern day witchhunt.
So they are located in Los Alamitos Southern California, if that is correct than that right where i live. Langley, los alamitos and langley is the local U.S. airbase\disaster center location here. If anybody knows where to get info on their exact location i wouldn't mind walking over to it and check out this leet team and take a few digital photos, or maybe even follow them once for the hell of it to see where they bust.
Is the MPAA gonna have people derssed as batman and other super heros busting bootleg DVD sellers. Come on this is so illegal it hurts.
The only thing these "goon squads" have the authority to do is tell the vendors they are doing something illegal and call the cops, at most make a citizens arrest.
If they are looking for someone to blame their dropping sales on, how about these 3 items:
1. their tacticts of late have been PR nightmares, many people now refuse to buy music to help support these strong arm tacticts
2. There is no real new music lately, it's all the same old crap, if you want real originality you have to seek out a garage band that the RIAA thought was not mainstream enough to make money.
3. You aren't giving people what they want!!!! why is a single on a cd only 1/2 the price of a 10-14 song album! I don't want the whole albumn if only 1 song is good. I also want to burn it to a MP3 CD or load it to a HD or Flash memory based player without your damn copyprotection or limits on how many times I can move it DAMMIT!!!!
The Lunatick, Carpe Corpus!
I meant the "these people change their identity all the time"...
No, burglary includes breaking and entering. I believe larceny is the word youre looking for. You are correct, however, that robbery is stealing by threatening. All are theft, but the distinctions practically and legaly are quite clear.
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
Really.
Is this story true? A parking lot attendant sells 5 or 10 DVDs for $5/each per. week, and happens to have 78 of them in his booth. One of the titles is Como Te Extrano Vol. IV -- Musica de los 70's y 80's.
The parking lot attended might have expected to get $390 to $780, but it cost him something, perhaps half that.
So, going to MediaPlay's website, I see DVD's selling for $20/each. That make's the RIAA's membership's exposure around $1560, presuming that the copyright holders are members.
A four man RIAA squad probably costs the RIAA at least $400/hour. There's probably other charges for having an investigator/tip-line that notices things like parking lot attendants with under-the-windowsill operations. And the article doesn't tell whether the RIAA got the name of this guy's supplier. (Or perhaps it got his name from the supplier!)
In short, it doesn't seem to be worth rattling the cage of a parking lot attendant.
Unless you expect media exposure to scare off other bootlegers.
B.T.W.: I bought a couple of CD's last year, maybe one or two the previous year. And that's up over the past ten years. I don't own (or want) a DVD player, I don't have broadband at IP access, and my age and tastes are rather outside the buzz and flash of the file sharers. I'm one of those people who just aren't attracted to the RIAA's product.
But I hate, absolutely hate, the idea that the RIAA might someday invade my privacy, should I get broadband service, just because they or some ISP messed up the IP address they think someone publishing "their" music is on.
...to get accidentally shot.
That's the other difference between these guys and real law enforcement: guns and armor.
This drives me nuts. People, remember who you are bashing. The RIAA is just a front for media companies that don't want their images tarnished.
This is a list of RIAA members
Remember - they *want* you to be upset at the RIAA. It is a convenient way to keep your attention focused on an antagonist, rather than the companies that it is backed by.
Ahhh Check your history. The first police forces WERE all private. There was no publicly funded police or state mandated police force untill well into the 1800s in the USA.
How is this any different than a bunch of /.ers donning "OSS" jackets, and raiding SCO's offices in Utah? After all, we highly suspect they've been pirating our code... I say we go for it!
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
>I was just wondering when this would start
>happening.
I'll tell you exactly when it STOPS happening. When they try an illegal tactic like this against a person with the most vague clue, I don't know, like maybe they've seen an episode of COPS or Judge Judy?
"What police department did you say you were with?"
"Can you show me that search warrant again?"
"I'll need you to contact my attorney if you want any further information."
"Am I free to leave?"
"You won't mind if I just call the regular police and get their opinion about your offer to use handcuffs on me, right?"
"How about you step off my property right this minute, and I won't prosecute you for trespassing?"
***ANYTHING*** other than "here is all my property, please take it, and don't even leave me your card....
If nothing else, make them forcibly take your property, then you have a simple case of robbery, maybe armed robbery depending on how your state regards the weapon status handcuffs.
Hell you don't even give your property to the police when they arrest you on a felony, without a reciept and clear paperwork.
If you get taken by crooks, RIAA jacket or no RIAA jacket, you need to use some common sense and you also need to seek recourse to the law immediately.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
First of all, is anyone interested in keeping track of where this stuff is happening? I'd like to see a website that tells where these people are operating and where they are doing their raids. I'd be glad to crack some heads over this sort of thing. If the mafia comes to my town, I'll be swingin' a baseball bat till they leaves.
It would also be fun to set up a fake piracy ring selling legit CDs that appear to be pirated and "entrap" the RIAA - it would be pretty easy to provoke them into saying something that would get them into a lot of trouble: "Are you guys with the governement?" "Are you guys cops?" I'm sure that with a few carefully worded questions they would say yes. Just make sure you start the video camera at the right moment...
I mean, do they have secret hand signs and stuff? Great...
The holding cell is for shoplifters. Theft is a criminal offense. Criminal prosecutions basically go:
Arrest (or citizen's arrest, in the case of Macy's) -> jail -> arraignment -> bail (if allowed and you can post it) -> criminal trial by jury requiring proof by reasonable doubt
Copyright infringement is generally a civil offense (I know it can be a criminal offense too, but these guys were not making citizen's arrests, i.e. holding someone 'till the real officers get there). Civil prosecutions basically go:
Claim filed in court -> Defendant served with claim -> Both parties show up in court and duke it out in front of a judge and maybe a jury -> Judge enters judgement -> Winner then tries to collect
The big difference is, like I said before, these RIAA thugs are not making citizen's arrests like macy's security guards are doing. If they were, they would have held this parking lot guy on the scene until the FBI got there. But, of course, the FBI was never gonna show up because even if the RIAA did call they FBI, which they didn't, this guy almost certainly didn't have enough "Jammin' to the 80's" CDs for the Feds to give a fuck. Really, their only recouse is going to be civil, and there are no arrests in civil cases.
It'll be interesting to see what the LAPD has to say about these tactics.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
I agree that the RIAA should not be allowed to push around a bunch of misinformed citizens just trying to make a couple bucks under the false pretense of authority. I think we should get a bunch of ex-marines or something, dress them up as street vendors, and go get those bootleg CD's back! ...and then hide them before the RIAA sends godzilla (dressed as a cop) after us, I guess?
from getting an 'official looking' jacket with RIAA on it, an "id" and busting a street vendor myself and scoring some free cd's? Well what's to stop me other than the fact I'm a lazy git.
Last I checked "impersonating an RIAA employee" is not illegal or breaking any law I'm aware of, and if they give you their stuff voluntarily it's not stealing.
It'd be FUNNY as heck to hear of fake RIAA agents busting vendors like this...
--- www.f-theocean.com
Maybe I'll go and get some more classical music from Naxos instead.
There is a very easy way to stop this. We need to relize that the RIAA-police force are just a bunch of hired private thugs. That said they can not represent themselfs as police officers. So I suggest we start a spot light compaiegn. We should hangout where they work, and follow them as they do their job.. perfectly legal. Then we publicly and loudly heckle them as they attempt to raid, at the same time we inform the victums that they are victums and call the real police, say the victum belived these were some kind of police officers and file a report that leads to a complaint as impersonatinting an officer. Nothing stops unpopular vigilatism faster then a large public glare.
...and it is legal.
/don't shoot the messenger
I see many on here saying it is illegal for them to take the property of someone else. Not necessarily. My brother works with a very popular rock band. One of the other guys with them obtains -- I believe from a local judge in the city of the venue they are playing -- a legal order that allows the band to confiscate any unlicensed merchandise with the band's name or logo on it, as well as bootlegged CD's.
My guess is the RIAA street team has a similar document or legal backing to do the same thing.
Ironically, the word ironically is often used incorrectly.
What next? Makeshift prisons where bootleggers are strapped down and forced to listen to Barry Manilow for hours on end?
'He who has to break a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom.' -- Gandalf to Saruman
A case for each of these could easily be made, and would stand up in court.
Obviously, this pyros guy works for the RIAA, or just likes goons or something.
If anyone else did this, The above list is what we would be facing at the inevitable session with the Judge.
Without 'Probable Cause', even the police couldn't do this.
They would have to bust you for selling without a liscense, or some such BS, so that they could confiscate your property, and THEN they would have the right to investigate whether or not your property you were selling was infringing on someones copyright.
Hell, wal-mart sells DVD's for 5 bucks. They cant reasonably assume that yours are 'stolen' unless they have someone complaining thet you stole from them, or they can see, with their own eyes, evidence of such.
Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
Now how to I find them? That is an awesome idea.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/cixel
This is what happens when we have an administration that shreds our constitution. Corporations are the rule of the land in all but words.
"Are you with the police?"
"No ma'am, we're musicians."
I was told by a fellow band member that a local club owner was approached by a man with a briefcase claiming to be from the RIAA or some related organization, and that he visited them to deliver a warning which amounted to... If you guys book bands with cover songs, I'm here to tell you that there will be legal action involved. We questioned other club owners in the area, and they either deny or have no knowledge of any such threats. It was only this one place that this occurred. At first I thought it was a bogus story, but this kind of makes me wonder now.
"The process of confiscating bootleg CDs from street vendors is exactly what the RIAA should be doing," said Jason Schultz, a staff attorney for the San Francisco-based Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF).
Jason, excuse me but are you fucking nuts??? Civilians should confiscate property because they think it's illegal, not call the cops and report it stolen, but just take it? And you are an actual attorney?????
I believe that's my big-screen TV you've got there in your living room, Jason. I'll be right over to pick it up.
http://home.gt.rr.com/linuxzealot88/riaaswat.jpg
But, you see, after this gets shut down for any one of a number of legal problems, they can claim that they tried to go after the street vendors but the law wouldn't let them. Guess there's nothing left for them to do but shut down P2P or pass a law that forces the government to take care of their problems.
They will be selling the CDs/DVDs/etc. encrypted
is a few people selling CDs from non-RIAA bands, public domain stuff, and legitimately purchased recordings.
I'm sure these rent-a-cops won't know the difference and a couple of well-publicised lawsuits for false arrest, impersonating a police officer, rackateering, and harrassment/intimidation will very quickly turn the public opinion against the recording companies.
There is no right to take the law into your own hands, no matter how deep your pockets are, and these assh*les need a lesson.
Read, L
...where can I get one of those jackets?
Why don't some of us get some official-looking jackets made up that say RICO. Then we can go up to the goons in the RIAA jackets, take their jackets, and tell them next time we find them doing the dirty work for a corrupt enterprise, we'll lock their asses up for a good long time.
Oh yeah, and we'll have them sign things saying that they volunteered to have their jackets taken away and threatened.
-- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
Anyone old enough to remember WKRP? The episode in question was when there was a bomb threat, and the DJ's went to the transmitter building. There, Johnnie Fever smashed a phone to pieces when he couldn't reach his bookie. Unknown to him or Venus Flytrap, there was a bomb hidden in the toolbox he used to smash the phone with. Later, Johnnie (in his drug induced paranonia)heard all the sirens, and said, it's the phone cops! Flytrap says what? You know, the phone police, they are here to bust me because I smashed the phones. Flytrap: are you nuts? Fever: Oh come on Venus, the phone company knows everything. Sounds like the RIAA is now the new "phone cops" LOL
Any Slashdotters live in SoCal and fluent in Spanish?
Print up a leaflet in Spanish and English that explains at length that these RIAA thugs are not real law enforcement officials and their threats can be safely ignored.
Stop by Kinko's and spend a few bucks on a hundred copies or so. Pass short stacks to a few to your friends, and you all give one to any sidewalk CD/DVD vendors you happen upon.
<gijoe>Now they know. And knowing is half the battle!</gijoe>
And that's about nothing. If they manage to prove that the material was both infringing and unauthorized they might be able to take the vendor to court and then do something violent to the vendor's bank account.
What they did was pretend to be policemen because the above would not work. They dressed like policemen and they hired former policemen who knew how to play the part. In fact, it would be hard for a policeman to act like anything but a policeman, and one joyfully liberated from all normal lawful restraint. That's against the law and the way they acted might have violated the law even if they were really policemen. Let's look:
"A large percentage [of the vendors] are of a Hispanic nature," Langley said. "Today he's Jose Rodriguez, tomorrow he's Raul something or other, and tomorrow after that he's something else. These people change their identity all the time. A picture's worth a thousand words."
Hmmm, bigots too, sounds like arbitrary enforment based on race. Bzzzzt.
"We notify them that continued sale would be a violation of civil and criminal codes. If they'd like to voluntarily turn the product over to us, we'll destroy it, and we agree we won't sue," he explained.
Extortion, theft, destruction of evidence, a real policeman would be put under the jail for that.
This is strong arm bullshit. What are they going to do to those who refuse to co-operate? How many pictures are they going to take before they start to feel silly and start breaking legs. They are out there in their silly jackets because they know they can't sue these vendors in any cost effective way. They can't find the factories so they have targeted the visable outlet. It's a waste of their time unless they start breaking some heads. We now see the RIAA for what they are: Thugs.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
If you can shoot the guy stealing your car, you can shoot out your tire, rendering the car undrivable. Yes, you have just damaged your property, but destroying a $40-250 tire is preferable to taking a human life, even if they are scum. Once you have shot out the tire and they have to get out of the car and walk, if you can get them to attack you, THEN you can shoot their punk ass.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
They aren't cops, treat them like you would any idiot on the street who's trying to pull this crap.
I just can't WAIT to kick one of their asses as they try to steal my property.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
I'm not sure who I'd like to punch in the throat more - the Microsoft butterflies, or the guys with RIAA on their jackets...
Look at my karma - I'm bad, just like Michael Jackson!
These actions would be legitimate. I am all for busting the sellers of counterfit and pirated CD's and DVD's. It is good for competition and for legitimate businesses (such as rentals).
For example, here in Indonesia, the gov't recently began a crackdown of this nature against pirated CD's and DVD's, containing music, movies, or software. This has resulted in:
1: Many more video rentals available.
2: Many businesses moving to Linux because it is now cheaper than Windows, and piracy is not considered viable any longer.
However, the RIAA is not a law enforcement entity, and as such, they have no right to this (I don't see any evidence of obtaining search warrants, for example). Doing so probably violates a constitutional right or 2.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Sounds like something Thomas Edison did.
Steve's Computer Service, Hobbs, NM
So here's what you do: if guys wearing RIAA coats threaten you with violence pull out your gun and blow out their brains. When you're arrested explain to the judge you were in fear of your life and were simply protecting yourself.
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
If you can shoot the guy stealing your car, you can shoot out your tire, rendering the car undrivable.
And watch them sue you because you caused them to run into a tree.
"We don't need no steenkin' badges!"
With this type of rogue behavior, they should merge with the ATF and become Firearms, Alcohol, Recording, and Tobacco (FART)!
Since when did the RIAA have anything remotely resembling police authority?
Are they attempting to make citizens' arrests?
Are they taking legitimate legal authorities with them?
Isn't this called vigilantism? Worse, isn't this sort of action also called extortion? If the guys are ex-cops, then they have no legal power to do anything and making threats was illegal the last time I looked.
Hello?!?!???!?! Since when does one illegal action justify another one?
Oh, I can't wait for the first time we see one of these "busts" go bad. I'd love to see the fallout for the RIAA when some grainy video shows up on CNN showing RIAA thugs kicking the crap out of someone for selling bootleg Tupac CDs. I'm going to have a fscking blast watching Jesse Jackson rip them a new one.
In addition, this assumes that these were illegal copies. It's not illegal to sell CDs.
The British Phonographic Industry is apparently investigating whether Amazon.com is breaking UK law by importing music from outside Europe.
My question is this: Are you infringing on a copyright holder's rights if the material you are reproducing is not purchasable or very easily accessible? Such would likely be the case with "Como Te Extrano Vol. IV -- Musica de los 70's y 80's" which the suspect (or victim, in my opinion) was reported to be selling. I doubt very much I could go to my local Best Buy and purchase such a title. Would you be harming the company producing such records, since they would never have produced enough of the CDs to meet the demand which you are meeting, or been able to market them where you are selling them? I think copyright infringement needs to be more clearly defined. Once information has entered the public domain, the public does have a right to it. If the company which made that information available cannot keep doing so, this task falls to citizens. Such would also apply to old NES ROMS, Atari games, and the like.
Every windows user is a sadomasochist.
Think the US government would send in the Marines to capture the head of the terrorist orginization? Just imagine the look on the face of the secretary to the president of the RIAA when the Marines bust through the front door? And yes, I do support our military (USA), and my younger brother is a jarhead about to go *back* to Iraq. Jason A.
Do you see the FNORDS? I refuse to post anonymously, as I am fireproof!
When did the RIAA become a law enforcement agency where they can 'bust' and 'hassle' people?
I thought that was called "Vigilanteism"?
-- You can't idiot-proof anything, because they're always coming out with better idiots.
I watched a show about bogus product street sales o the London streets mostly perfume, cosmetics. The vendors had lookouts and if the police got close in plaincloths there were enough "helpers" ot create a scene and usually the main guy got away. The tactics used here will change on both sides as it goes on and on. The post who brough up the minority and illegal immigrant harrasment has more than scratched the surface of a main cause for this illegal action(I believe). what amazes me is there wanting to go after organized crime, by forming gangs and putting the shit to one street vendor at a time, I mean think about it, a behind the scenes hornets nest if you ask me. I may not be the first to say this so credit to who ever did (if it is me I will take it) But if a person(s) wants to go out and find trouble chances are they will.
I eat my grapes at room temperature, cuz the cold ones hurt my teeth
This will start to make a lot more sense when someone busts a cap in these rain jacket clad mall rejects. I can hear them say, "stop, you're arrested!" Fire away... the people who make the laws are as out of touch with the community at large as is humanly possible. Someone will have to get shot dead before any sanity comes to this. Yeah, it is illegal... but some would argue for a reason and even if there is no reason, criminals shoot cops. This is a job I'd personally pass over.
It would be nice of things went that way. Unfortunately these types of things usually don't stop till the situation gets out of hand and it won't because someone started asking questions. Chances are it will be:
They go and try to bust a bigger name priate then just a guy in a parking lot, but this guy is different. Where the parking lot guys immediately cave, this guy instead looses his cool, panics, pulls out his shotgun thinking these are real police officers, and blows them all away. Then you get the PR backlash. It could go two ways:
1) the media stands with the common ppl, see the RIAA as having done something criminal, and public opinion turns against the RIAA
or
2) the media (whose owners also are members of the RIAA) side with the RIAA 'officers' and turn public opinion towards a "send to jail the dangerous pirates on our streets". Pirates end up with an image equivalent to drug dealers, anyone who supports them look like criminals too, and you also end up with the police involved in 'cracking down'. The pendulum swings in their favor and the next thing you know you end up with file sharers being treated like drug addicts. Copyright issues no longer become a concern to the public becuase the RIAA now has 'pirates are dangerous' trump card.
I seriously hope I am wrong, but I can't help but think that the RIAA has seen this scenario from the get-go and it is eactly what they want. These RIAA 'officers' are fall guys - they get sued then its these 'officers' that take the heat, if they get whacked by some trigger happy street vendor they end up getting the RIAA everything they want, if not either then the RIAA wins and pirates are taken down. I hope the real authorities step in soon. There is a reason vigilantism is illegal - this situation could easily get out of hand.
There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes,
most of us won't be able to afford it.
-- Lemmy
Many of these comments suggest that the people being busted have a storefront (that can be trespassed upon), have an attorney or claim one, and, most importantly, have a basic understanding of and faith in their own rights. In fact it seems more likely that the RIAA folks are deliberately targeting people who are safe to hassle because they do not have those things.
If these people are lower-income (parking cars for a buck a car), selling something in a place they don't have a clearly established right to be, or recent (and possibly undocumented) immigrants, they're not going to lawyer up at the first sign of trouble. They don't trust the authorities and they Don't Want Trouble.
On the other hand, we are talking about the LAPD. It's hard to imagine how a middle-aged Hispanic man working on the LA streets would have any concerns about their flawless record with respect to fair and even-handed behavior. :-)
It's the little things.
So, when these CD sellers get hassled by these RIAA clowns does it go this way:
"Are you guys cops?"
"No, ma'am. We're musicians."
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
I think you will be one with the taped ass cheeks.
Hollow words will burn and hollow men will burn.
Fortunately, both the firearms they carry and their legal strategies both bear "Mattel" logos on them.
~Knautilus
Bullshit. :) You're either a really shitty judge or just yet another /. poseur who doesn't have a clue.
Ta!
Possibly even more fun, round up a bunch of (legit) albums on ebay, used music store, whatever. Mabye scratch them up, or repackage them in cases which are clearly different from normal cases so they appear to the average rent-a-pig like pirate disks. Then go try to sell them on the street near RIAA headquarters, (with plenty of A/V recording gear hidden around). Be prepared to make their life difficult without doing anything illegal, so you can still sue the shit out of them later if they try anything. Fun, and profit!
according to the RIAA
Isn't this vigilantism? Isn't that a felony?
The following labels are affiliated with the RIAA
http://www.riaa.com/about/members/default.asp
(I'd post, but I get the error that my message has too few characters per line)
___
It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
Buy RIAA music, citizen. It is your duty. Cooperation will be rewarded, resistance will be punished. Have a nice day.
>|<*:=
It's getting close to useing God's cleaning solution...
FIRE.
If I don't see those RIAA rentacops busting the kneecaps of 7 year old kids, there is no justice in this world.
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
First off, it's nearly impossible to shoot out a tire. A tire is a much smaller target than a human. Second, Even if you manage to shoot a tire, that's not going to instantly make the car undrivable. I've seen police chases where all four tires have been taken out by spike strips and the driver still drove for miles. Third, when you start shooting at/near someone, the situation is instantly escalated. Are you one of those dingbats who asks "why can't the cops just shoot someone in the arm or leg?" The answer is that the only way to prevent them from shooting back is to kill them. Also, it's hard enough to hit a human size target under stress; "aiming for a leg" pretty much guarantees you'll miss and he'll start shooting back. You might say "a car thief might not have a gun", but guess what? I don't care. If he doesm he's already shown that he doesn't respect my property, so I'm not going to take the chance that he might also not respect my life.
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
These RIAA bastards are hassling vendors who don't even speak English. From the article, the guy was "speaking through an interpreter . . . " Why? Simple. Legally, if they approached you, you could politely tell them to go "reproduce themselves" and they'd have to. If they laid a hand on you, you could sue them for damages under a number of legal theories (false arrest, false imprisonment, etc.) And they know it.
This shows how desperate the RIAA has become. They're really going out on a libm here and exposing themselves to liability.
"In fact it seems more likely that the RIAA folks are deliberately targeting people who are safe to hassle because they do not have those things."
Which is exactly the behavior that could lead to prosecution of the executives under Federal RICO statutes. It won't matter that the victims are low-profile people who don't come forward. The only relevant facts will be that someone with decision-making authority, knew or should have known (in the language of the law!) that the organization was systematically engaging in a corrupt practice.
>On the other hand, we are talking about the LAPD.
I'm talking about the FBI. And I'm serious. Once the RIAA crosses the line into a protection racket, they run the risk of being treated just like organized crime bosses (which is precisely what they become.)
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
This is even more funny because I was just reading an article about Grand Theft Auto.
This signature used to contain a cute kitty virus with ansii art. Please set the slashdot editors on fire. Thank you
> I don't advocate shooting people except as a last resort, but if I catch some sob breaking into my car, stealing something off my property, or otherwise violating my person or property, we'll get that fixed immediately one way or another. If the thief (or whatever) wants to back down and act right nobody has to be hurt. If not he may leave wearing more holes than he came with.
What about the grey areas? What happens if he doesn't back down, but fails to back down dangerously? Let me give you an example. You come out of the store to see a fellow leaning in the window of your car. You yell, and he stands up with your (briefcase/toolbox/laptop case) in his hand, and runs away at high speed (and let's assume that you can't give pursuit for whatever reason). Now what? If you shoot him, you can't possibly reasonably argue that he posed an imminent threat to your life or limb, and you've reduced it to killing someone for petty theft (and endangering life and property in your line of fire across the parking lot). See, the idea of "defending your property" is far too black-and-white for most people, and it's situations like this one that lead me to believe that the limitation on the use of deadly force is necessary because too many people seem to think that any level of force they can muster is reasonable for any situation they encounter. My example of shooting someone in traffic is hyperbole, but it also demonstrates an excessive response to a real-world situation.
Virg