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Court Rejects msfreepc.com Settlement Claims
mr_tommy writes "Neowin has posted a link to a court ruling (pdf) on the controversial MSfreepc.com website. The court ruled that claims in the Microsoft antitrust settlement made via the site were not legitimate, and as such all submissions made through it would be rejected. The website, operated by Lindows.com, attempted to use the Californian settlement against Microsoft to its own benefit by getting users to signup and make a claim. Lindows saw an opportunity to capitalise on the ruling by getting Microsoft to pay for users to have Lindows software and hardware; undoubtedly too bitter a pill for Microsoft to take. Microsoft filed suit against the website Michael Robertson, owner of Lindows and a strong anti-Microsoft voice, will undoubtedly be disappointed with the ruling. The 'legitimate' site for claims is still available."
Well, it sucks for Lindows but if any of you out there still want to file a claim, you have until March 15, 2004.
Remember, it's your money so it's better to file it through the official channels...
Note: I know some of you will never file anything with M$ so this post doesn't apply to you (you don't need to go crazy on the replies, just go to the next post).
It is not enough to have a good mind. The main thing is to use it well. - Rene Descartes (1637)
The Army reading list
Frankly it was an underhanded act which is on a parallel with some microsoft have made in the past. Had they used the site to inform users of the process they could go through, then all would be fine and dandy. However, actively leveraging a misdemeanour by another company to gain a competitive advantage in a way such as that just wasn't on.
for robertson to funnel claims through his site to ms's transparently?
Was it slightly underhanded? Sure... but, I'm sure the hardware they gave away was contingent on their claims being accepted (correct me if I'm wrong)... otherwise, they give out a little free software (not that expensive to Lindows.com to do so), got their name out a bit... Can't see this HARMING them all that much... Now, if they start asking for their software back over it, that could be a bad thing... Let people keep their LindowsOS', consider it a marketing cost...
The fairness of an open market goes out the window when a company is forced to fund its competitor. What if RedHat had to pay for every Windows machine shipped?
Microsoft filed suit against the website Michael Robertson, owner of Lindows and a strong anti-Microsoft voice, will undoubtedly be disappointed with the ruling.
sorry, but what does that mean?
Lindows doesn't really care much about this. Sure, they would have taken the money, but what they really wanted was to give MS a black eye by publicizing the court ruling, and also to expand the Lindows user base.
They accomplished a fair bit of each, and what they gave away were just copies of software that hardly cost them anything in the first place. This was another smart marketing move by their CEO, and inline with his other moves: not very classy, but shrewd nonetheless.
I really don't care for either of these two companies, but it seemed clear that the Lindows site was not collecting complete information required from users. MS should have been able to just ignore Lindows, but they were forced into a suit.
Lawyers 1 - Corperations 0
Post: Sigged, for your pleasure.
If RedHat had to pay for every Windows machine shipped, hell would be getting kind of cold ;) But seriously. No one can be forced to fund a competitor's product - it's not financially different from if Joe Public used the payout money to buy LindowsOS (Can we call it that anymore after the other suit?) from a vendor rather than through MSFreePC. But honestly, who said things were going to be fair? Bear in mind that the money is coming from an anti-trust settlement here. Although Lindows did act irresponsibly, MS can hardly start complaining about bad business practice.
I'm all for choice but I was not at all impressed with Lindows compared to other desktop based Linux distibutions. I bought $199 Walmart PC's for my kids this christmas. One with Lindows and one with Lycoris. Lindows was usable and it worked without problems but the click-n-run selection was too limited. I tried several non Lindows repositories and regular old packages but eventually I got frustrated and started over with Mandrake. Although not required, I feel the money I could have spent on a Lindows subscription was much better spent on a Mandrake membership.
Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
no wonder an Anonymous Coward posted this.
It is not enough to have a good mind. The main thing is to use it well. - Rene Descartes (1637)
I have no pity for Lindows. Naming a project "Lindows" implies that Linux is some cheap knock-off of the "Real Thing".
I remember seeing goods imported into Russia from China with things like alarm clocks with names in Russsian, which, when pronounced, sounded remarkably like "Hyundai", and "Adidas" bags with too many stripes and a bunch of garbage characters that were supposed to be a slogan. That's the kind of stuff I think of when I hear "Lindows".
This is a manual virus. Copy it to your sig and help me spread!
Why is it when SCO implements a business model based on extremely questionable legal interpretation, they are accused of being "on crack"; whereas when MSFreePC implements an extremely questionable business model, they're really good guys? Wouldn't it be more consistent to conclude that the guys at SCO have been sharing their bad crack with the guys at MSFreePC?
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
undoubtedly too bitter a pill for Microsoft to take
The Lindows msfreepc.com site was discussed here a couple of months ago.
The site was encouraging people to sign up for the rebate whether or not they were eligible and regardless, they had no basis to collect names.
This is one of those rare instances when MS is totally right.
...is that the judge didn't say *why* it is invalid, he just said it is invalid.
Lindows was just trying to get a free ride on the settlement's coattails.
;P ).
The letter of the settlement said that all claims must be submitted by the original purchasing party (not an intermediary like Lindows) and each claim must also must be signed by the original purchasing party (electronic signatures don't count).
It's my hope that Lindows does the right thing and notifies all parties that submitted a claim through them that their claim was rejected... at least that way the 'injured' parties still have time for recourse (of course 90% of those claims were probably from Slashdot readers... who are now notified
And no one sees anything wrong with this? I know I just woke up, but wtf should Microsoft dish our for another company's product... Call me a troll, d***, whatever you'd like but kudos to MS on this one
MoFscker
Lindows is out a few linux distros which are really just debian distros prettied up a bit so they are out of no real money here.
Microsoft looks bad for shutting down a site to help consumers take advantage of the settlement, so they can be spun in the press to be trying to get out of their obligations.
To be honest you can't really blaim Robertson or Lindows.com for putting up the site becuase they win either way.
Now Microsoft... They eitehr Lose or have a Neutral outcome from shutting down this site. To be honest I don't know why they did it... unless they are still trying to claim that they won/were not found to have violated the law in the antitrust case.
That poor donkey. I'm send PETA after you...
I think they did. After all they knew it was underhanded as well.
Frankly it was an underhanded act ...
Fine, but "underhanded" isn't a legal term, so I'm curious by what reasoning the thing was disallowed. The linked ruling didn't give any reasons at all, merely saying that the website and process did not comply with the terms of the settlement, but not saying how or why they did not comply.
Lindows saw an opportunity to do what it does best - expell hot air and try to "stick it to the man".
undoubtedly too bitter a pill for Microsoft to take.
Microsoft should have just stood by and lose the suit by default. Yeah.
Microsoft filed suit against the website Michael Robertson, owner of Lindows and a strong anti-Microsoft voice, will undoubtedly be disappointed with the ruling.
Robertson is not a "strong anti-microsoft voice", he's a quack and a con. And I doubt he'll be disappointed since there are many other dumb childish things he can do to draw attention to his pointless "fight". Now all we need is for the courts to make him stop using the word "Lindows" and all will be well.
This guy is nothing more than a scab in the image of the people who work on open source software. He should concentrate on going public, running the company to the ground and walking away with a few dozen million like he did with MP3.com.
Companies like this don't share crack - they're run by people who consistently got "does not play well with others" on their report cards in elementary school. No, MSFreePC has their own crack - it makes them greedier and less stupid than SCO's crack - different impurities, I guess.
Many companies do this. H&R block will give you a "loan" check when you fill out your taxes, based on what you will get back from the government. How is what this website does different? They are giving people products based on how much money Microsoft will owe them. What is the big deal? Nobody is forcing people to use that service.
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
I'm insulted that the govt. thinks I'm incapable of making an informed purchase. I bought Windows at a price both MS and I agreed was fair. What the hell is the govt. doing saying that I paid too much. If I don't claim the money, it doesn't stay with Microsoft, but gets donated to schools (minus lawyer fees). I don't think it's right for the govt. to interfere in either my freedom or MS's freedom to trade. So, how do I give my share, including lawyer fees, for lawyers I did not hire, back to MS.
Vote for Pedro
Moomin are the cartoon trolls from Finland, Swedish Finland where Linus Torvalds comes from. Is the poster a old jilted girlfriend or something?
is here
--- any post that takes longer than 20 seconds to write, isn't worth writing
They aren't basing it on the concept that you couldn't make an informed decision, they are basing it on MS's anticompetitive practices that basically destroy competition.
Lawyers were hired because MS was breaking anti-monopoly laws, not because you paid too much for windows. It's the concept that - were MS not so heavy-handed and dominating, there might be a lot more competing products. If there were competing products, you would have had more choice, and may have chosen something else.
Really, I think that the settlement should pay out those that belonged to companies destroyed by MS, they're the ones that by far took the brunt of anti-trust.
You may be happy with windows, I myself don't mind XP overly much. But if it weren't for MS, there might be something just as good, possibly better. We'll never know because very few were able to ever reach a workable status before being destroyed by MS, except for OS/Linux mainly due to availability, freedom, and wide distribution (not to mention dedication of many individuals who make OS possible).
"Yoda dolls stuffing up your ass you should not do" and you did anyway. So fuck it
In other news: your postings are so arrogant, I'd like to put a shotgun down your throat.
Deutsche, kauft nicht beim Juden!
Please stop masturbating to your greatness, clean your keyboard and take that Yoda doll out of your ass. Yep, in that order, you arrogant prick!
Take that Yoda doll out of your fucking asshole and write some stuff that isn't so pathetic!
The MSFreePC site is still accepting applications for their "instant settlement" and they say that they will be honoring claims even if they ultimately lose in court: "We will fully honor all of the terms of the MSfreePC.com web site and will not be asking you for money or taking back product that has been made available to qualifying consumers, even if we do not receive payment from the Settlement Administrator" This means that you can get your $100 worth of free Lindows software AND file a legitimate claim to get your $100 from the settlement! Woo hoo!
Michael Robertson has a history of aggressive yet haphazard business models and this is not the first legal smackdown one of his companies has received.
When he was at MP3.com his "strategy" was to confront the music industry head-on, effectively trying to take the banana from the 800 pound gorilla. It wasn't until he launched the infamous myMP3.com service and the copyright violation lawsuits started pouring in that he attempted any sort of amicable agreement with the industry. Surely we haven't forgotten the massive legal smackdown MP3.com incurred as a result.
Robertson's strategy with the Microsoft rebate smacks of the same confrontational and haphazard business decisions that doomed his earlier business.
Just a few of many things about M$'s proven (IMO) monopoly violations that disturb me ad infinitum.
.doc or .xls files, I suffered no economic hardship and was not robbed at all, unlike those poor Windows users! So if you bought the Mac version instead of pirating, your reward is being locked out of settlement! Way to promote ethical behavior! Typical of the way lawyers manage to reach settlements for their client (often corporate as is M$) that allow them to disavow responsibility for damages to a potentially large group of plaintiffs, all the while proclaiming to repent their past "mistakes" (fraud!). They should be forced to reimburse 100% of those affected, not the whatever percent using Windows. Justice isn't about being partly/mostly fair.
Last I read, the "settlement" explicitly included only Windows and M$DOS based products. So according to the settlement, legally speaking, if I bought a Mac version of Office because I "had" to interact with college courses/employers that "require" (so called by M$) "standard"
Also, why is it that money unclaimed goes to schools? I am 100% for more school funding, better teacher salaries, more books, computers, whatever. But by making it a either/or choice (either you claim refund from M$ or it goes to the schools) they (M$) get total win-win (ha punny) PR! If a lot of people claim the refund they say "look we helped people". If a lot of people refrain in order for the money to go to schools, then M$ says "look we helped schools", makes inroads into another market they are trying to monopolize. There are plenty of M$-drones in positions of Education IT who will spend an M$ monopoly penalty refund on more M$ gear!
Ugh! what an a great illusion of justice and the masses will naively believe they "won" over M$! Saddest of all!
" Can't see this HARMING them all that much... "
If they get sued? Oh yes it can.
"Derp de derp."
But, if you look at this from a PHB or Joe Sixpack perspective, it really shows why Linux is not ready for the desktop yet.
Everyone involved in Linux seems to be more concerned with reacting to what Microsoft does than actually innovating on their own. And that is why every major advance in desktop computing over the last decade or so have all come from Microsoft.
All of us in the Linux camp need to stop worrying so much about Microsoft, and concentrate on actually innovating for once,
Judge Learned Hand's word's against ALCOA show how antitrust law is misused to stiffle competition and harm consumers:
He's chastizing them, not for hurting consumers, but for running a competitive business. Antitrust law seems like a good idea in theory (as a shield for consumers), but in reality it is used by uncompetitive companies as a sword against their betters.
The only real definition of a monopolist is someone who can raise prices while restricing output. See the Credit Mobilier scandal if you want to learn what real anticompetitive practices are.
"Give a man a fish and he will ask for tartar sauce and French fries!"
Because microsoft only has to pay claims and a tiny portion of the unclaimed funds to schools. And that tiny portion can be paid in microsoft products.
Microsoft is pissed because due to this site people were actually claiming the funds.
I never thought that looked legitimate at all. You can't just set up your own system for filing legal complaints. If you could every kook out there would be doing it. It reminds me of people who try to start their own country, only not as interesting.
You had me at "dicks fuck assholes".
-1 troll!!?
I thought things had gotten worse lately.
adieu,adieu,adieu remember me!!,
the rest is silence...
It's only a matter of time that Michael Robertson gives up on Lindows and start something else, he is a businessman, not a respected man in the opensource world.
The sentiment around here seems to be the opposite.
Id have to agree, despite having a crappy name and questionable linux distribution. What they are doing, or trying to do is a good thing. Its not my choice of Distro, but in terms of getting linux out there on hardware and software bundles. Its a sterling job.
I respect them for what they are trying to do , even if there are a number of things about the distro im not keen on.
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
Got my claim form in the mail and they're basically offering $15 per copy of windows. That's not even worth the half hour it's going to take to fill out the stinking form. Maybe if it were $50 it would be worth it.
I'm glad. Lindows is nothing but cheap profiteering, and this site was a horrible example of it. Sun's Java Desktop and IBM's efforts are serious attempts to bring Linux to the desktop.
In the site's frontpage they quoted a guy from Microsoft:
"But Microsoft's Drake said Lindows.com's online process makes it too easy to make a claim".
But they omitted the rest of his comment (also here): "[comma] making it more likely that people without legitimate claims will file.".
Heh, that reminds me of some movie ads, where they show quotes from magazines like "Brilliant!", but they omit the rest that goes "It was brilliant the way the director blew it with this piece of crap. Just brilliant!".
Ya know, what is this X Windows thing? Is it like an old or discarded version of Windows, like "XYL" or "my X".
At least Lindows and X Windows are legitimate trademarks.
And yes, I've been around long enough to know that X Windows descends from W developed for a DEC prototype graphics system that Gordon Bell insisted get shipped in its very not ready for primetime state.
And I know that the Xerox Star is the REAL THING which Microsoft copied, along with everyone else with any sense. (If you disagree, I assume you have square wheels on your car???)
msfreepc.com:
It is a system for filling out paperwork.
Wow, Lindows must really be getting desperate. I guess if I owed millions in venture capital, I would be getting desperate too.
Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.
The only harm to Microsoft, if any, is that people are more aware of the settlement and therefore more likely to file for their piece, which is cash that Microsoft would rather keep.
They have SCO, we have Michael Robertson.
He has rights. He is also worth 20-100 MILLION US Dollars, he can provide for his own defense.
The EFF need to help those that can not afford to defend themselves.
Fact: Lindows.com made it easy to file a claim, which I bet 90% of you who are reading this who may have qualified will not take advantage of because MS made it so hard.
Fact: Even though Lindows won't get paid, tens of thousands of people get to KEEP the software they got there FOR FREE (StarOffice, LindosOS, etc.). You can still file a claim the manual way if you want. So, Lindows is out tons of software, and the consumer is the winner.
Fact: HAD MS paid up, many open source projects would have benefited (see msfreepc.com for the list).
Fact: Lindows seems to be the only Linux company with the balls to take on MS.
Me
I don't have a claim. I never pay for any Microsoft products. Heheheh.. .
Doomed?!?! The guy made like 350+ million dollars. I'd like to have some doomed businesses like that...
It strikes me as odd that the only info is a link to a court file. I see no statement from Michael Robertson, nor any artical in any newspaper to confirm this. Also, wouldnt Michael Robertson have a chance too appeal?
Or some Wacked ass crap like that.
You've never bought anything from anyone else
that took over 80% of your cash as their profit.
5% maybe... hell even 20% if you're buying drugs or some shit but not 80% or more.
Get a life and let the cash go to the kids....
Maybe they'll get history books that are less
than 25 fucking years old.
Fucking Troll!!!
U leeve like keeng foh too weeks at reast.
What Market? All I've seen everywhere is Microsoft!! The people who do not know any better are the ones continuing to buy microsoft products. That is just about 75% of the sheeple in this country!!
When was the last time you saw ANY BSD for sale
on the shelf at Best Buy? Linux is there NOW, but
it wasn't there 5 years ago WHEN ALL THIS ANTI-MONOPOLY CRAP STARTED!!!!
>MS did nothing wrong.
How about "they broke the law"?
unfinished: (adj.)
I don't think there's any doubt that Standard Oil brought prices down while increasing quality and output. All the complaints were from their competitors, not their customers; quite the opposite of a real monopoly.
That predatory pricing is a myth isn't so controversial. Like many political issues, it's often a case of a special interest claiming government protection for their narrow interests, while pretending that it's for the sake of the general public. Netscape complained about Microsoft giving IE away for free, but I didn't hear complaints from any consumers.
"Give a man a fish and he will ask for tartar sauce and French fries!"
....not to mention the inevitable lawsuit from Charo