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First Look At Intel Tejas & Socket 775
Anonymous Indian writes "The snoops at Anandtech have unearthed some details and photos of Intel's rumored Tejas 90nm CPU which draws 150 watts of power, a 50% jump compared to Prescott. It's also got an interesting locking mechanism instead of the traditional metal clip from hell for most processors." There's not much info beyond the photos, but it's still interesting to see what lies ahead for Intel.
The both the slashdot sum-up and the linked article fail to explain why, exactly, I should be excited about this.
Looks like a German dental tool.
So much power use from the first 90nm process cpu? There can be only one reason for this... the rumored twin core intel CPU. Let's see how hyperthreading run's on THIS baby!
Using a car battery for your laptop?
Looks like the same arm I've seen on every other socket motherboard.
Is that dissipated heat?
If so, ouch! that system is gonna need a huge heat sink or water cooling will be needed.
I would loves to see standardized water cooling parts for computers.
That way all you would need to do is buy the hosess and your favorite pump.
Regarding those metal clips from hell, I've always wondered why Intel and AMD never followed the examples of Alpha, Sun, SGI, etc. machines. They usually have bolt on heatsinks that either bolt the CPU and heatsink together or sandwich the CPU between the mainboard and the heatsink.
It takes care of the flat head screwdriver ruined mainboard, and there are no clips to break off the socket itself. I'm glad they are finally changing the way x86 sockets work.
Cthulhu Saves.
It's interesting to see how what was once consideres "high-end" eventually makes it's way into the consumer desktop stuff.
For example, this chip appears to use a "pinless" package design. Instead of little pins that fit into the socket, it has little ever-so-slightly raised 'nubs'. These 'nubs' simply sit on top of contact points in the socket.
This pinless design was being used by Compaq for the Alpha CPU as early as 2000, so this isn't a new packaging technology. The only problem Compaq had with it, was keeping all the little 'nubs' firmly in contact with the corresponding points on the socket. They used some sort of plastic clip design at first, which ended up with a high failure rate - not for the CPU, but for the plastic retaining mechanism itself. That's probably why intel is using that big beefy metal retaining clip.
I guess intel learned something from all those Compaq Alpha engineers they bought a few years ago.
I'd rather be a conservative nutjob than a liberal with no nuts and no job.
the "lack of metal clip", however, is so exciting that I am sure that we are to see perpetual world peace from its announcement any minute now.
In the pictures, it locks down on the left side and the mechanism covers the CPU. Not many sockets I've seen in the past few years use that, so you must be seeing some special motherboards...
The thing I always liked about Intel chips was their low power absorption and their low heat. Though they're a bit pricy in comparison, AMD chips were power-hungry and thus produced heat as if they had uranium cores.
Intel chips were great for Mini-ITX cube PCs if you didn't want them to burn, as they ran cool enough to easily run with heat pipe technology. They were even better for laptops, since you didn't have them draining the battery like crazy . On the regular PC front, they would famously run cool overclocked to extremes, like from 1.6-2.4 or from 2.2-3.0 on cheap stock cooling alone.
Now, it seems like they've lost that advantage.
Did anyone else get an Athlon 64 ad when they opened the article?
He, that is the Spanish (as written on Spain) for Texas.
The Spaniards write Mexico as Mejico.
Just a tidbit for your amusement.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
That's about $10/month; similar to the cost of adding a movie channel or two to your cable subscription. Something to think about for those that will use this CPU to volunteer for distributed number crunching projects.
that's my first thought when I saw the picture. Why the CPU is looking so... um.. dirty (looks like corrosion)? ;) I'm just curious.
;)
I'm not an overclocker specialist, or whatever, and really I don't want to be a troll here
perhaps answer to this question will be modded informative (as this question itself is not
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#\ @ ? Colonize Mars
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The only trouble is that power usage inside computers is skyrocketing lately.
150 Watts CPU, a 100 Watts graphics card and then you have all the fans to cool it, and you'll be lucky if you are under 300W and that doesn't even factor in storage, optical drives, motherboard, audio, communication devices.
I mean you will need a hell of a power supply unit to provide that sort of power reliably.
IntechHosting - Free domain, 2GB, PHP, £4.95/$8.95
Is it going to be 64-bit? If not, a new chip is really a waste of money.
By 2006, most everything will be 64-bit, and Intel needs to realize this and stop making 64-bit chips just for the server market.
Well, maybe, there have been problems with heat at the 90nm mark, though there are rumors that Tejas might use dual cores However, the hyperthreading thing would be a bad idea. It would mean that you have 4 logical processors, instead of 2. And with 4 threads running in parallel, there's a good chance that a lot of the time, 2 of those 4 will be identical. All hyperthreading would generate is too much heat.
1.21 jiggawatts?! Where am I going to find that much power!? It's not possible!!
Well, as you said, distributed projects are about volunteering. I wouldn't say $10/month for a project like Folding-at-Home is a waste.
The owls are not what they seem
If this is multi core, which I would love. How are they going to find a market segment to charge high prices for ? I want dual. But with either intel or amd its expensive. In AMD's case the board. Intel now at least has hyperthreading which should fix some sluggishness I feel. So what will differentiate a xenon if there are duals in a core ? An extra processor will mean alot less to a workstation or some servers if there is already a dual in a single core.
ehm, it would actually drain quite quickly. A regular car battery supplies about 14.4 volts when it's full (even though it's called a 12 volt battery), and can supply about 40 Ah, when drained slowly (less when drained quickly). 150 / 14.4 ~= 10 Amps, so it would last only 4 hours, and that's only for the CPU.
Mini-ITX P4
150 W? What does that Tejas thing have, a Electric Chair Inside ?
You only seem to equate power wastage in terms of your personal $s.
Try and think a little bit bigger. Think in terms of global warming, energy depletion, entropy etc.
Using less power (whatever the application) can only be a good thing.
Mod parent as troll.
Why should it be modded as a 'troll'? just because it betrayed some lack of knowledge about CPU design? I think your post should be modded as troll.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
I can see them trying, but I don't really see it. Hyperthreading as it is generates a lot of extra heat that isn't exactly proportional to the performance gain (I've noticed this on my own 2.8C). I know there are some dual Xeon systems that have hyperthreading enabled, so they must have partially addressed the problem the inquirer put as...
"An instruction thread might well favour one kind of execution unit, but who's to say the other threads, the ones that are running in parallel with the 'troublesome' one, won't be favouring the same execution units? Assume you've got two cores per die, and that's two threads running simultaneously. Chuck in Intel's much-touted HyperThreading technology and you'll have four threads being processed in parallel, two per core, all being 'hopped'. Chances are that at least two of them will be using the same execution units, so swapping them round isn't going to change anything."
But in a dual core system, heat is a much bigger problem, so it would make more sense to up the clock speed over enabling hyperthreading whereas the heat on a dual Xeon would be easier to eliminate because there are 2 processors with their own cooling solutions. There's also the issue that stardard operating systems don't support 4-way systems for residential computing. There's also the fact that Intel COO Paul Otellini said "We'll go from putting HyperThreading in our products to putting dual-core capability in our mainstream client processors over time." That implies that hyperthreading is used as a stepping stone for the consumer, as some programmers optimize their code to be run on hyperthreaded systems, it will also boost performance on future dual core systems. Anyone else have any ideas?
I take back this last post, my other post in this thread is better.
And it also may approach the heating capacity of an AMD chip
No. It's much higher. The 'super-hot Athlon' preconception is way way out of date. It was true comparing Athlon "Thunderbirds" with PIIIs, but hasn't been true since the P4 - the 2GHz Willamette and 3.2GHz Northwoods both dissipate more power than any Athlon.
The first Pentium was a stripped-together combination of 2 486-like CPUs
No. You're trying to describe superscalar-ness but not succeeding. The Pentium was the first superscalar x86, having two integer pipelines. All modern x86 CPUs are superscalar (except the VIA C3). Superscalar-ness is not CMT/multicore. CMT appears as multiple CPUs to software.
I've got Mandrake 9.2rc-1 AMD64 on my dual opteron system. It's running legacy 32-bit code (Seti) perfectly fine alongside the newly compiled 64-bit stuff.
The first Pentium was a stripped-together combination of 2 486-like CPUs, with shared parts. To describe this as "two discreet Prescott cores on die... sharing data caches and maybe other units..." brings together this similarity.
The closest is the Pentium Pro and it had separate cache and core dies, NOT two separate cores, but that was converted later to cartridge (PII) and then later all on one die (later PIII). I doubt that Intel produced an original Pentium anything like this, or in a dual core manner.
What indications are there that everything's going to be 64-bit? It's been 32-bit for a while now, and if Intel doesn't go 64-bit the rest of the world might wait until they do. Intel controls the majority of the market, and they have enough power keep trends suppressed for a while (or try to start new trends, and keep them much more alive than they need to be, *cough* RDRAM *cough*). There's rumors that there will be 64-bit instructions that one could somehow add-on to the prescott, but I don't know how it would work, as Intel is keeping everything tight-lipped.
/.ers, but companies like Microsoft which is making a 64-bit version of XP for AMD64).
Heck, if they wanted, they could create their own 64-bit instructions and pull the rug out from under the AMD64's feet. But I don't see that happening, as everyone would not like that (not just
They use less Watts and activily want to reduce this as well plus the cost of owning a mac when comparing electricity consumption would work out cheaper as well.
Jonathanjk.com
I've gone to AMD related articles and gotten Intel adds so many times I got used to it. I'm glad to see the opposite happening. I just hope in Q2 they start advertising so that AMD64 really takes off and 64 bit software will become very mainstream. The reason I say Q2 is that this is when the socket shakedown should be over and the windows alternative will be available.
:)
Let's face it. Those of us on slashdot are the ones most likely to be utilizing the new 64 bitness.
Paul
Intels 64 bit solution is the Itanium (which, along with HP, they invested around $10 Billion). Intel is in a bind in that Microsoft will not tolerate another 64 bit instruction set and Intel would be shooting Itanium in the foot to use AMD64 (which they are a licensee of).
Maybe they will support AMD64 or maybe they wont, but they will not create ANOTHER 64 bit ISA and we will not be seeing an Itanium for the average user (it is way too expensive to produce and a royal bitch to program for).
[RIAA] says its concern is artists. That's true, in just the sense that a cattle rancher is concerned about its cattle.
Intel's grasp of what is in their best interest never seemed more dubious. Well, perhaps their extravagant network sector buyout frenzy and the subsequent fire-sale liquidation of all those recently purchased properties might have seemed a worse error than forging ahead with the mhz marketecture on an electrically inefficient 90nm process. Intel reminds me of HP... They both push flimsy PR initiatives, forgetting that they are sitting on huge assets. There is a place for 150, 300 and perhaps 600 watt 32bit cpus... in an eroding corner of the market, with more efficient competitors assuming leadership. This is where Intel's current course terminates - likely with the release of a relatively low clock x86-64 part (which they could have had now). Instead, two to five years of steady marketshare loss and blind pushing of an inferior, wasteful product will intervene.
Nope, your currency conversion's backwards. Canadian dollars are worth less than American ones... should be $US 4.93, according to the Universal Currency Converter. That said, I don't know what the going rate for electricity here in this part (Texas) of the US is, so perhaps this conversion won't be so helpful.
Is not the G4 40 watts?
Yikes
http://saveie6.com/
How many energy-company-stocks do the Intel techies own?
were the late 80's and early 90's, when the ruble was so worthless that people would melt down the various denominations of coins, and get more money back for the metal ingot.
And at 150 watts, you could probably do the melting on top of one of these new CPUs.
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
2/27/2003:, 3973,900185, 00.asp/ cpu/display/200310110 84615.htmlt ag=Tejas
:)
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0
10/11/2003:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news
misc:
http://endian.net/details.asp?
So it looks like it will come in in 2005 instead of the original 2H 2004. It'll have 24k L1 instead of 8k or 16k like current and prescott have. When it is made at 65nm insteadof 90nm it'll have 2megs L2 instead of 1meg.
It should start eventually run as high as 5Ghz. Maybe that is on the 65nm process years from now? Bus speed should be 1066Mhz (266*4) or 1200.
It should have some new instructions in order to make life harder for AMD.
Fortunately for AMD Prescott was already supposed to be shipping at 3.8Ghz, but Intel is a bit behind on their road map too
so that consumers can also cook on them with easy cleanup?
does it run linux?
I don't think there will be a problem air cooling this CPU. The only thing that will change is that the default heatsink will have to be upgraded and thus increasing the price by $40 or so. My CPU probably using 80W or so at full load and I can easily cool it with a SLK-900U and a 1000 rpm 92 mm fan. The fan is definitely inaudible. The heatsink weighs in at 1 lb of copper and $50, however. I can see myself cooling this new CPU with the same heatsink and a 4-5000 rpm fan. That's alot of noise though...maybe water will be the default cooling in the future?
Acording to Motorola, the 1Ghz G4 require 10 Watts. The faster ones require a bit more.
Prescott has 64-bit instructions they are just turned off. At some point Intel will enable them for new chips. The original Pentium 4 had hyper threading in its core but it was turned off until the 3.06ghz chip was made. If Tejas is a generation after Prescott it most likely has 64-bit instructions on the core although they may or may not be enabled.
> so tomorrow's cpu uses 150w. two light bulbs.
Hey! If we combine this fact with yesterdays news we might just have solved that whole heatsink problem: just let the CPU produce light instead of heat, and then cut rectangular lightsink holes into the case to let the light dissipate..
http://www.aceshardware.com/forum?read=105063294
http://www.x86-secret.com/
Apparently anandtech is showing a prescott?
Sorry but I am responding to both your posts, dont hate me. I am complaining both about your non link urls and Slahdot's inability to convert them to links...
If you are going to post urls, you might as well put the link tags in there...
BUT! why doesn't slashdot auto convert URLs to links?? Come on, forum software, even the really crappy ones, have had that feature for ages.
Why doesn't slashdot auto convert URLs to links?? Come on, forum software, even the really crappy ones, have had that feature for ages.
Anyone know what they blocked out in the socket picture?
What could possibly be there that they wouldn't want us to see? Or is is that they're not allowed to show us?
Huh?
How about, "Time to invest in Zalman"
The P4 heatsink/fan that came with it was really noisy. But I guess that is only an issue with homebuilt PCs since my IBM P4 at work does not make any noise. I opened it to look at it and it had a no fan on the CPU but a cooling duct connecting it to a big fan at the back of the case.
True, but it does put seti@home into another perspective.
How many watts does the G5 consume?
*sigh* back to work...
It's patently obvious that, in the context of the Soviet Economy, Ivan Ivanovitch would not have been better off melting down his tractor because (a) he didn't have access to a smelter and (b) it wasn't his tractor, it belonged to the collective and (c) there was no internal private market for steel and (d) he would have been shot for economic sabotage.
... he Soviet Union produced some fairly decent cameras, some remarkably advanced military aircraft and helicopters (some of which I have been in and survived), some useful surface to air missiles, some working nuclear subs. ... It just forgot the living standards and human rights of its population, failed to deal with mundane issues like delivering food and clothes efficiently...
My tractor example was a hypothetical. I was not implying that soviet farmers spent their days melting tractors for money.
I was illustrating an example of the inefficiency of the soviet system - and some history of the "In Soviet Russia..." jokes.
You might also consider that in many ways Soviet Russia was not backward.
Right. Because building cameras, military aircraft, and nuclear subs takes presidence over essential elements of human life, namely food and clothes. And that isn't backwards. Sure....
I'd rather be a conservative nutjob than a liberal with no nuts and no job.
57 watts for the current 2GHz G5. The new 90um G5s will use 71 watts at 3.2GHz.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
No thanks! I'll wait until the "Mr. Fusion" attachment becomes cheaper.
>>>>>> Chewie, take the professor in the back and plug him into the hyperdrive.
Does that apply to the US too?
(Sorry, couldn't help myself. *waves* Hi.)
There is nothing so silly as other peoples traditions, and nothing so sacred as our own.
No wonder Apple laptops last so long while the windows ones need a recharge.
http://saveie6.com/
Wouldn't this make the CPU the socket, if the pins are on the motherboard?
"I just can't sit while people are saying nonsense in a meeting without saying it's nonsense" J Watson, Sci Am 288:(4)51