NetBSD Announces Logo Design Competition

Looking for a politicly correct logo? by HanzoSpam · 2004-01-15 00:13 · Score: 5, Funny

"too complicated... hard to reproduce... [and] has negative cultural, and religious ramifications."

So political correctness has made it to open source.

Oy!

--

Progressivism: Parasites helping parasites to help themselves - to other people's stuff.

Re:Looking for a politicly correct logo? by quantum+bit · 2004-01-15 02:52 · Score: 3, Funny

I read an anecdote here on Slashdot about someone who was in the American Deep South on holidays and was thrown out of a store for wearing a BSD shirt, and veiled hints that he had better leave town.

The store owner probably mistook the BSD daemon for the New Jersey Devils logo. Likely, the Stars were playing the Devils that week and that's why there was such a strong reaction.
Re:Looking for a politicly correct logo? by DG · 2004-01-15 03:46 · Score: 4, Interesting

True story:

Driving south on I-69 heading to Indianapolis, pull off to get something to eat at the typical "McDonalds on an exit" that are scattered all over the US.

My McMeal rings up as $6.66. Teenaged girl behind counter flips out, and insists that the food is free. When I try and tell her it's no big deal; I'm not afraid of a number she gets REAL upset and flat-out REFUSES to take my money.

Rather than cause more of a scene that was already developing, I accepted, and her relief was palpable - like my immortal soul had been just snatched back from the firey jaws of Satan himself.

Some people REALLY believe this devil shit is BAD.

DG

--
Want to learn about race cars? Read my Book
Re:Looking for a politicly correct logo? by Kosgrove · 2004-01-15 04:36 · Score: 2, Funny

My McMeal rings up as $6.66. Teenaged girl behind counter flips out, and insists that the food is free. When I try and tell her it's no big deal; I'm not afraid of a number she gets REAL upset and flat-out REFUSES to take my money.

You wouldn't happen to remember what you ordered, would you? I eat live for free and just travel around the bible belt....
Re:Looking for a politicly correct logo? by lylfyl · 2004-01-15 07:14 · Score: 4, Funny

How unusual was your order?

I can imagine that poor girl having a breakdown if $6.66 popped up everytime someone ordered something common.

Customer#1: "I'll have 2 Big Macs and a large Coke."
Cashier: "That'll be $6.66. AAAH! EVIL! Your meal is free."
Customer#2: "Cool! I'll have 2 Big Macs and a large Coke, too."
Cashier: "AAAH! It's free!"
Customer#3: "I'll have what they're having.."
Cashier: "AAAH! My soul! It's burning!"

$100? by perly-king-69 · 2004-01-15 00:16 · Score: 4, Funny

There is a cash prize of US $100.00 for the winning entry.

With the dollar going the way it is it'll cost me more to bank the cheque than it is worth over here!

--

--
This sig is inoffensive.

Re:$100? by perly-king-69 · 2004-01-15 00:35 · Score: 2, Informative

Joke! Don't be so touchy.

But, in 2001 $100 would have bought me 71. Today it'll buy me 55, which I reckon to be about 1/3rd less.

--
--
This sig is inoffensive.
Re:$100? by ericspinder · 2004-01-15 03:39 · Score: 2

The American Dollar is weak...It's called Voodoo Economics,...
Bush (the senior) called Reagan's Trickle down economics "Voodoo Economics", and that had nothing to do with exchange rates, directly. It was more about tax cuts for the wealthy, he also advocated spending cuts to match the tax cuts, but that legislation failed, and the defict sky-rocketed.
However, every action of a economy, and political structure does have impact on the exchange rate. The (internationally) unpopular war in Iraq, the soaring defict, the stagnate economy, growing confidence in the euro, etc, etc, are all factors in the weakening dollar. International currency exchange rates and their economic impact is [well] very complex. Some favor a 'weaker' dollar, others a 'stronger' one.
For example, American Exports are now cheaper, but our imports are now more expensive, A student could write a thesis just on that fact alone. One consideration [there are hundreds] is that, consumers only have so much money to spend, and most consumer products don't even have an American manufacturing company in the market. Another effect is the "local currency price" for a foreign investor of the American Stock Market, billions have been lost by these investors (but unless they believe it will just get weaker, now is the time for them to buy).
Personally, I think that the dollar was a little high, and needed to get knocked down some, but what do I know, I am just a programmer.
Anyways, $100 is like "chump change", not that I would turn it down, but it is a small chance of even "winning", so it's unlikely to get any serious competetion (read: art students), and mostly be a contest for bragging rights.

--
The grass is only greener, if you don't take care of your own lawn.

Looks fine to me! by CaptainAlbert · 2004-01-15 00:16 · Score: 3, Insightful

> too complicated...

for whom? for what?

> hard to reproduce...

== hard to forge...

> [and] has negative cultural, and religious
> ramifications.

No, it doesn't. It's a cartoon devil. It doesn't offend anyone. Really. Unless you're one of those freaks who won't let their kids watch Scoobie-doo because it's got ghosts in it. Trust me. If it were hanging on a cross or wearing a turban, *then* maybe it'd need changing.

Sheesh!

--
These sigs are more interesting tha

Re:Looks fine to me! by dave420 · 2004-01-15 00:19 · Score: 3, Insightful

It's a devil. Devils are evil. Cartoon or not, it's a symbol with evil connotations, which some people could feasibly find offensive.
For any sort of organisation to have a logo which could cause offense isn't a good start.
After all, with your logic, a swastika is just a bunch of lines... how could that offend anyone?
Re:Looks fine to me! by KillerLoop · 2004-01-15 00:20 · Score: 4, Insightful

*not* the BSD devil, check out the link given in the story.
Re:Looks fine to me! by Yorrike · 2004-01-15 00:21 · Score: 2, Insightful

What's wrong with wearing a turban?

--
Looks can be deceiving. Or CAN they?
Re:Looks fine to me! by Ubi_NL · 2004-01-15 00:29 · Score: 5, Insightful

No, it doesn't. It's a cartoon devil. It doesn't offend anyone. Really. Unless you're one of those freaks who won't let their kids watch Scoobie-doo because it's got ghosts in it. Trust me. If it were hanging on a cross or wearing a turban, *then* maybe it'd need changing.

It has nothing to do with the devils. It's a cartoon of a statue in which american soldiers are planting an american flag. That makes it culturally biased.

Although you have to be an idiot to be offended by it, loads of people (especially in some 'liberated' countries) are suchs type of idiots and there is no reason to get into this unnecessary type of trouble

--

If an experiment works, something has gone wrong.
Re:Looks fine to me! by Bish.dk · 2004-01-15 00:31 · Score: 3, Funny

No, it doesn't. It's a cartoon devil. It doesn't offend anyone. Really. Unless you're one of those freaks who won't let their kids watch Scoobie-doo because it's got ghosts in it.

Reminds me of this story featuring a poor sysadmin's experience in Hick Town, Texas.
Re:Looks fine to me! by adrianbaugh · 2004-01-15 00:36 · Score: 5, Funny

> It's a devil.

It's not, it's a daemon. A friendly helper that lives inside your computer serving websites, answering your spam and being fingered. Really, if I had to put up with all that it'd be enough to make me grow horns and a tail!

--
"'I pass the test,' she said. 'I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel.'"
- JRR Tolkien.
Re:Looks fine to me! by dipipanone · 2004-01-15 00:46 · Score: 2, Interesting

It's a devil. Devils are evil.

Perhaps they might be if they existed outside of the fevered imaginations of religious fundamentalists, but as they are, at most, a metaphor it's hard to see why rational people would be bothered. And why would you try and accomodate the prospective rantings of irrational people? There's no predicting what those could be.

Cartoon or not, it's a symbol with evil connotations, which some people could feasibly find offensive.

Rather like the SCO trademark, you mean?

After all, with your logic, a swastika is just a bunch of lines.

Not really. A swastika is the symbol of an organization that verifiably eradicated six million jews and similar numbers of gay people, Romany gypsies, etc.

When people can point to similar empirically verifiable actions done in the name of a little red man with horns, a pitchfork and a pointed tail, I might take this argument seriously.

Did anyone ever see that episode of Jackass, where a guy dressed in a red devil suit was being assaulted by passers-by, who clearly thought that by punching a guy in a red suit, they were doing battle with the true Prince of Darkness?

Perhaps Net-Bsd should substitute the face of Saddam or Osama for the devil? That should really get the product shifting off the shelves. (OK then, the FTP servers for the pedants out there.)
Re:Looks fine to me! by Ashtead · 2004-01-15 00:50 · Score: 5, Insightful

The single cute "cartoon devil" (whose name may or may not be Chuck) that we see here on slashdot as the section logo for BSD, and which is really meant to be a visualization of a daemon, is not what's under consideration here. As a symbol for BSD, it is about as well-known and effective as Tux is for Linux.
However, these angry troll/devil hybrids in sneakers trampling over what appears to be a lot of desktop computer hardware however, is evidently what is found in need of an update.
I can list a few likely reasons for changing this, off the top of my head:
One thing is that devils is a somewhat religious device, not found in all religions.
Then there is the aesthetics of this. The logo is just kinda ugly. These guys are not all that different in appearance from some football hooligans... and after all, there is a strong element of marketing here, whether we like it or not. Would you want to buy an operating systems from these guys?
Political correctness or accusations of same, marketing and aestetics aside, I would say it is just as much that the design of the monitors is becoming dated, since many of us now have relatively skinny LCDs, not fat CRT-based ones. If nothing else, the logo is becoming tecnically dated.
All these could, individually, be considered warrants for change.

--
SIGBUS @ NO-07.308
Re:Looks fine to me! by EinarH · 2004-01-15 00:52 · Score: 4, Insightful

Trust me, those religious nuts will have you arrested.
Yeah, but that is because they dropped out of school. If they had had any historic sence they probably would have recognized the original picture, and then it would have been okay for them.
(and let us not get into the discussion on wheter the picture is fake or not, that's offtopic)

--
Melius mori in libertate quam vivere in servitute.
Re:Looks fine to me! by Queuetue · 2004-01-15 01:10 · Score: 2, Informative

Actually, before the nazis co-opted it, the swastika was known to stand for the 4 "l"s intertwined - Love, Life, Luck and Light. It was used in the same places the Red Cross is used these days, and often on correspondance like we use X's and O's in the US. For ages, one of India's most loved goes, Ganesha, uses the swastika as a personal symbol (although not as much these days.) It was used by the ancient greeks to indicate something was wholesome and trustworthy - and was remembered that way by the Europeans of the 20's and 30's. That's exactly why the fascists picked it.

In other words, the swastika is a symbol of love and light. Or it's symbolic of the evil of the Nazi party.

Or, in reality, yes - it's just a bunch of lines. Any power given to them is just silly and artificial.

Also, if someone finds a picture offensive, I'd recommend s/he not look at it. I'm getting sick of all of the P.C. thuggery that takes place and is claimed to be "tolerance." The candyasses that I encounter on a daily basis are making the modern world weak and unfit to survive. If we can't get it together, the developing world will replace us - and we'll deserve it.
Re:Looks fine to me! by siliconjunkie02 · 2004-01-15 01:11 · Score: 2, Interesting

So, what do I get for regularly wearing my FreeBSD T-shirt in Houston? And, I have never had a single word said to me about it...

So, perhaps you should realize that just because we are in Texas, we aren't a bunch of backwoods religious zealots as you think.
Re:Looks fine to me! by Azghoul · 2004-01-15 01:18 · Score: 2, Informative

Someone tell this idiot he's not insightful.

"Trust me", give me a break. "burning you as a devil"... I don't know if you're trying to be funny or you're more ignorant than the people you're trying (and failing miserably) to belittle.

Grow up.
Re:Looks fine to me! by zerocool^ · 2004-01-15 01:58 · Score: 5, Informative

Demon comes from the greek word diamon, or, more accurately delta-iota-alpha-mu-omicron-nu, depending on how it's declined. That's singular nominative (i think).

In helenistic greek, i.e. around the time of the peloponnesian wars, the word diamon meant sort of "guardian spirit", but implying that it could be either a mischievous spirit or a malevolent spirit. To blame things on a kakodiamon was to say that you had bad luck, and imply that you must be plagued by a mischievous diamon.

When the word was moved into other languages (i think it came to english via romance languages, stemming from latin), it changed to demon, and was christianized to mean "demon", i.e. servant of the dark lord (satan, not your boss, or bill gates, or $funny_guy_we_hate).

Yeah for me with my taking greek 1105. It was hard as crap, but wow, I learned a lot. For instance, this happened to a lot of words in greek. Take, for instance, the word that's used (at least in the new testamant in sinaiticus and the vatican codex) to mean "sin". In ancient greek, it meant "mistake" not "transgression". Although, I think that's one that the greeks had started to shift the meaning of before the christians got to it.

But, yeah, I've got this big thing for etymology, being 18 hours away from a history degree, and still eagerly taking every social sciences class I can fit in. For instance, when I see WindowsXP, I see windows, version christ. XP are the greek letters Chi Rho, which are the first letters of the word "christ", chi-rho-iota-sigma-tau-omicron-sigma. They're the letters constantine the great saw in the sky when he converted his army to christianity at the milvian bridge in 312(? i'm close, and i'm not looking it up).

Also, if you know a little greek, you know jack chick is full of shit in his Death Cookie tract, which says that IHS on the cookie that catholics eat at communion stand for Isis, Horus, and Seb, egyptian gods, and that it's pagan worship to be a catholic. Sorry, Chick, but IHS are the first three leters of jesus in greek, iota-eta-sigma-upsulon-sigma (remember, indiana jones and the last crusade? "Jehova starts with an I"? Yeah, there is no J in greek, it was Iota, in both jehova and jesus).

But, look, here, i've done rattled off my head for ever about nothing.

Just suffice it to say, when you see demon, you don't have to think servant of satan, from the pits of hell, sent to torment the true believing christians. It's just a spirit, who may have the attitude of a prankster.

~Will

--
sig?
Re:Looks fine to me! by fiddlesticks · 2004-01-15 02:25 · Score: 2, Insightful

> Unless you're one of those freaks who won't let
> their kids watch Scoobie-doo because it's got
> ghosts in it. Trust me. If it were hanging on a
> cross or wearing a turban, *then* maybe it'd need
> changing.

Yeah, your culturally sensitive input really helps

> It's a cartoon of a statue in which american
> soldiers are planting an american flag.

> Although you have to be an idiot to be offended by it,

Or hate America? Or hate war? Or hate stuff which has _nothing_ to do with NetBSD? and so they don't want to mix an OS up with the US military-industrial-complex?

Man I can see why they wanna change that logo.

--
http://milkshake.dexy.org
Re: Looks fine to me! by Punk+Walrus · 2004-01-15 02:42 · Score: 4, Informative

> > [and] has negative cultural, and religious
> > ramifications.

> No, it doesn't. It's a cartoon devil.
No, it's not. It's a series of daemons putting up a flag, reminicent of the famous photo of Iwo Jima. Check the links.
> It doesn't offend anyone. Really.
I don't know, if I was Japanese, I'd probably be offended. A lot of American soldiers killed a lot of Japanese. When it was all over there were only 250 Japanese prisoners out of the original 22,000 defenders of the island. The rest were killed. General Kuribayashi commited suicide (hari kari). The Marines lost 7,000 killed and 19,000 wounded. International conflict is not comfortable thing to talk about, and not a good idea for a world-wide logo.
Also, have you ever heard the fates of these soldiers in that famous photo? Three of the men were killed in combat within days of the flag raising. Not exactly inspiring for a logo, either.
> If it were hanging on a cross or wearing a
> turban, *then* maybe it'd need changing.
Cross, probably. Turban? A lot of cultures have turbans. What's wrong with a turban? Keeps your hair up, head shaded from the sun, is a symbol of wisdom, and a cool place to store your cobra...! No, wait, skip the last one.
Re:Looks fine to me! by GypC · 2004-01-15 02:53 · Score: 3, Insightful

The south is full of black people, and mostly we get along fine. Black people had a saying in the 60's, "Northerners love the black race, but can't stand black people. Southerners hate the black race, but get along with black people just fine."
Texas also has a lot of openly gay people. Haven't you ever heard the expression "steers and queers"? ;-) There is truth in it.
Another ignorant yankee...
Re:Looks fine to me! by Asmodai · 2004-01-15 03:04 · Score: 4, Interesting

Not really. A swastika is the symbol of an organization that verifiably eradicated six million jews and similar numbers of gay people, Romany gypsies, etc.

Bah, learn proper history before commenting. The swastika is a Hindu holy symbol and associated with Ganesh, the Hindu god of good luck/fortune. It is also highly used by the Buddhists in the world since the arms symbolise the chain of rebirth and death. The four 'L's are associated with Life, Love, Luck, and Light.

In the World War Adolf Hitler was smart enough to take an established symbol like the Indian swastika and mirrored it and made it a symbol for the Nazis to be proud of. He did the same to the Napolean Iron Cross.

*wishing people who take their collective political correct heads our of their political correct arses, not everything revolves around the west and the middle east*

--
Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai
Re:Looks fine to me! by zerocool^ · 2004-01-15 03:15 · Score: 2, Interesting

Yeah, the flying thing with the blue mouth and the horns? Yeah, that was a cacodemon, probably a reference to a kakodaimon.

--
sig?
Re:Looks fine to me! by Just+Some+Guy · 2004-01-15 03:55 · Score: 2, Funny

My Big Fat Greek Wedding:
Father: All words come from Greek! Give me a word and I'll show you how it came from Greek!
Friend: OK... "Kimono".
Father: Let's see. Oh! I know!

--
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
Re:Looks fine to me! by Larsing · 2004-01-15 05:04 · Score: 2, Funny

He did the same to the Napolean Iron Cross.

And what on Earth has the Teutonic Iron Cross got to do with Napoleon!?!?!?

--
Ethics is what you say you do. Morals is what you actually do.

Logo Suggestion by Giant+Ape+Skeleton · 2004-01-15 00:19 · Score: 3, Funny

I think a penguin would be...
oh, wait. nevermind.

--
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.

This is SOOO obvious by Phekko · 2004-01-15 00:19 · Score: 2, Interesting

The BSD d(a)emon holding a gladiator-like net.

--

Sigs for Nerds. Sigs that Matter.

Re:wow by Duty · 2004-01-15 00:19 · Score: 3, Funny

NetBSD's claim to fame is running on everything from your PC to a dead squirrel in a cardboard box.

It's not that they're devils .... by binaryDigit · 2004-01-15 00:26 · Score: 5, Insightful

Several people have posted (in the usual /. manner) that they don't see an issue with the devil, it's a cartoon, right wing religious wackos, etc. Well its not the devil, it's what the devils are doing. The devils are in a pose that mimics one that is usually associated with valour and the giving of ones life for "liberty" (whether or not you agree that this particular pose does or not is for another discussion). So now you have a logo that uses characters associated with negative deeds (the devil, cartoon or not) in the place of men associated with honor and self sacrafice. Given the current events, I could see how this logo, while passing under the radar for many years, is now suddenly considered inappropriate.

I can understand how many would find it inappropriate, which is unfortunate because for those who've been around the BSD and the computer scene for a while know exactly what the logo is trying to represent and it's quite accurate in that regard.

Re:It's not that they're devils .... by tiluki · 2004-01-15 01:03 · Score: 5, Informative

Try explaining that to some people.
Apple, BSD, daemon processes... They just see their own association and fit it to whatever ideological conditioning they've been reared on, before propagating the next generation in the perpetual cycle of ignorance and fear...
Re:It's not that they're devils .... by Imperator · 2004-01-15 03:28 · Score: 4, Informative

That site is a hoax, like Landover but subtle enough that most people don't figure it out. I can't find it anymore but on their "4KIDZ" page they had a peppered moth teaching about creationism. No real creationists would ever mention the peppered moth, unless they were trying to discredit the evidence. There are lots of other things that are just a bit too ridiculous to be real. That's not to say that real creationists aren't ridiculous, but they don't explicitly point out the hilarious consequences of their beliefs, like kangaroos in the Middle East. If you don't know any of these people it's easy to think this site represents their views, but it's just a little bit over the top.

--

Gates' Law: Every 18 months, the speed of software halves.

Iwo Jima photo by Joe Rosenthal by basingwerk · 2004-01-15 00:29 · Score: 3, Informative

The original Iwo Jima photo by Joe Rosenthal was faked the day after the victory. In the NetBSD reproduction, the US troops have been replaced by devils, and the mountain top is a pile of computer hardware. The US flag has become a simple banner proclaiming NET Bsd. Notwithstanding any political correctness in this decision, it is hard to see the relevance of the current logo.

--
I stole this .sig

Re:Iwo Jima photo by Joe Rosenthal by towzzer · 2004-01-15 01:03 · Score: 3, Informative

Acutally the flag raising was done twice right after each other, the first flag was very small so they decided to take it down and find a larger pole to put it on, as it was being put up the photographer 'Joe Rosenthal' snapped the picture as he was just coming to the top of mountain. Later , when the flag was fully raised, he took a posed picture. Of course the accidental picture was the one that became famous.

Re:wow by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-15 00:30 · Score: 3, Informative

If you're asking about the OS, it's pretty good. The troll below was thinking of OpenBSD -- and a bit off the mark -- but basically, think OpenBSD without the security focus, with the conveniences of FreeBSD (sometimes done better; pkgsrc is rather sweet, and claims to handle builds on Linux as well!), relatively small installation size, cutting-edge features, and of course, ridiculous portability. Definitely Just The Thing for that 486DX2-50 collecting dust (unless it's to be a firewall or bastion host - then you want OpenBSD), and quite useful anywhere else as well.

If you're planning an 'intensive' workload (more specifically, "if you're planning something that will actually put stress on a $2,000+ server"), then FreeBSD and soon DragonFly will be worth looking into. (DragonFly will be cool for other reasons, but then, I'm a fanboy.)

As to this logo business... Well, in a perfect world, people would use BSDs more often, and accept any lingering 'incorrectness' to the logo (it's supposed to be a daemon, not a demon, so the saying goes) as the price paid for getting a great, maintainable, don't-even-have-to-follow-GPL-sharealike-rules OS. But pragmatically, a lot of NetBSD core seems to work for Wasabi Systems -- call them the RedHat of NetBSD, but of course, the overall NetBSD community doesn't quite have the size and clout of the 'Linux community,' so keeping those guys fed is more intrinsic to the project's survival in the near term. If the logo's losing them contracts (and what's worse than losing a contract for nontechnical reasons?), then hey, maybe it's time for the weird to turn pro.

Suggestions by WhyteRabbyt · 2004-01-15 00:31 · Score: 2, Funny

1) Change the colour. Red is too demonic. Black would be good, no-one objects to Tux after all, but you wanna make the face stand out. Make that much lighter, and slightly more prominent.
2) Lose the horns. Something like big round ears would be friendlier.
3) Lose the pitchfork and tail. You want something that gives an air of class - like white gloves
4) No nudity, please; we need more than trainers or this is just pornography. Put shorts on the dude or something. You could even make them red, sort of a homage to the original. But you'd need to simplify the footwear.

That would be perfect. No-one could ever object to that.

It would look something like this : google link

--
free experimental electronic music netlabel at www.viablehybrid.com

Similarities, but not quite to Intel's Pentium by deunan_k · 2004-01-15 00:36 · Score: 5, Interesting

Pentium

It is called "Pentium" because it is the fifth in the 80x86 line. It would have been called the 80586 had a US court not ruled that you can't trademark a number.

The successors are the Pentium Pro and Pentium II.

The following Pentium variants all belong to "x86 Family 6", as reported by "Microsoft Windows" when identifying the CPU:

Model Name
1 Pentium Pro
2 ?
3 Pentium II
4 ?
5, 6 Celeron or Pentium II
7 Pentium III
8 Celeron uPGA2 or Mobile Pentium III

The name was chosen because of difficulties Intel had in trademarking a number. It suggests the number five (implying 586) while (according to Intel) conveying a meaning of strength "like
titanium".

Intel did not stick to this convention when naming its P6 processor the Pentium Pro; many believe this is due to difficulties in selling a chip with "sex" in its name. Successor chips have been
called `Pentium II' and `Pentium III'.

Sorry, the above comments I pirate it off - http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pentium

The last paragraph is more closely related to NetBSD (or all BSDs in general) problem. I read an article somewhere years ago that, Intel actually engaged a consulting firm in order to come out with a name for suitable for the 586. One of the criterias was that it must be something not offensive in any languages spoken worldwide.

Call it political correctness, but you don't offend anyone if you can help it. Especially a wold class entity doing business worldwide.

NetBSD, is an entity that transact with people all over the world. People from all walks of life. Personally, I love the BSD daemon, kinda cute.. But I'm sure it is not the OS of choice for some/most religious organization.. Esp. those conservative ones who have yet to discover fire.

Well, if they decide on a new logo in order not to offend the sensibilities of 'potential' customers, why not indeed?

Regards all and everyone - peace!

--
Will sys-admin for food

Forget Beastie.... by sethadam1 · 2004-01-15 00:37 · Score: 4, Interesting

Beastie, although he is really a BSD thing in general, is most associated with FreeBSD. OpenBSD adopted Puff the Blowfish and it is instantly recognizable as obsd. I think NetBSD design submitters ought to choose a new animal - perhaps a stingray, a lobster, a crab, or some other creature that can defend itself - and go for it. Then NetBSD will have some individual recognizable identity to those outside the BSD aware.

Sympathy for the daemon by k98sven · 2004-01-15 00:41 · Score: 4, Funny

Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm an OS of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a man's soul and faith

And I was 'round when Gary Kildall
Had his moment of doubt and pain
Made damn sure that Bill Gates
Washed his hands and sealed his fate

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game

I stuck around Digital
When I saw it was a time for a change
Killed VMS and its decendents
The VAXen screamed in vain

I rode my way
through USLs day
when the lawsuit raged
and the licenses stank

Hope you guess my name, oh yeah
Ah, what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah

I watched with glee
While your kings and queens
Fought for ten decades
For the OSes they made
I shouted out,
Who killed System V?
When after all
It was you and me

etc... my apology to the Rolling Stones..

In contrast to the bashing by Max+Romantschuk · 2004-01-15 00:47 · Score: 3, Insightful

I believe this is a good idea, from a branding standpoint.

The loss of the BSD daemon may be unfortunate, but looking at major brands it's pretty clear recognition doesn't require a cool mascot. To name a few: Nike, Adidas, Mercedez-Benz and Nokia all have rather simple comporate symbols.

If the NetBSD project wishes to look more professional in the eyes of marketeers, this is a good move.

--
.: Max Romantschuk :: http://max.romantschuk.fi/

Politically correct NetBSD Logo by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-15 00:50 · Score: 4, Funny

Can be found here...

Wait . . . by shystershep · 2004-01-15 01:00 · Score: 3, Funny

The successful logo will also have wide exposure

Wait a minute - this is NETBSD we're talking about here, right?

--
The bigotry of the nonbeliever is for me nearly as funny as the bigotry of the believer. - Albert Einstein

So I'm Fired... by BSDevil · 2004-01-15 01:00 · Score: 5, Funny

...and they didn't even tell me.

Way to gout out of your way there, Net BSD. After years of loyal servitude, this is how you treat me.

--
Cue The Sun...

Re:angels? by perly-king-69 · 2004-01-15 01:01 · Score: 2, Insightful

So now we're going to change it to angels, i hope?

Wasn't the devil just a corrupted angel anyway?

--

--
This sig is inoffensive.

Re:devil? by lederhosen · 2004-01-15 01:10 · Score: 2, Insightful

What's wrong with it is that some deeply religious people consider it a symbol of evil, and make stupid assumptions about people using the logo or wearing it on t-shirts etc., such as believing them to be satanists. It might not have been a problem if people knew what BSD was, but for most people "NetBSD" is as meaningful as a string of random characters.

And? I do not think we should care for fanatics.

oh, oh, me, me, me (jumps up and down excitedly :) by cliveholloway · 2004-01-15 01:12 · Score: 2, Funny

Considering how much BSD code was used in Windows services for UNIX, how about this.

.02

cLive ;-)

--
-- Trinity in high heels carrying a whip: The donimatrix - there is no spoonerism

Re:devil? by diersing · 2004-01-15 01:23 · Score: 2, Funny

True, I've noticed the Duke Blue Devils and New Jersey Devils are also aflicted by this terrible religious ignorance. Where for some reason the Anaheim Angles continue to prosper under His umbrella of tolerance and understanding.

I can totally understand updating or changing a logo to get attention or even seperate NetBSD from the other distros, but if anyone changes a logo because of stupid assumptions then I must abandon it based on principle. I fear deeply computer-illetirate people might view find it a symbol of evil because it runs on the a computer it must be Microsoft.

Re:negative cultural, and religious ramifications? by aallan · 2004-01-15 01:42 · Score: 4, Funny

Last I checked the US wasn't a theocracy...

When was the last time you checked?

Al.

--
The Daily ACK - Eclectic posts by yet another hacker

Re:A polar bear! by axxackall · 2004-01-15 01:45 · Score: 2, Informative

Polar bears have no chance to eat pinguins - they are living on opposite poles. So, polar bears would be more appropriate for Microsoft.

--

Less is more !

Bad Pizza and Religious Imagery by Colonel+Cholling · 2004-01-15 02:25 · Score: 2, Interesting

First of all, let me say that the daemons in the logo look more to me like the Noid from the Domino's Pizza commercials of the mid-1980s.

Second, these cartoon daemons bear even less resemblance to the Biblical devil than the modern-day Santa Claus image does to St. Nicholas of Myra. Nowhere in the Bible is Satan described as a red, scaly gentleman with horns and a bifurcated tail who carries a hayfork. That image is a product of the Middle Ages. The BSD version is a cariacature at that. There's simply nothing here that should offend anyone's religious sensibilities.

--

I am Sartre of the Borg. Existence is futile.

Re:devil? by theonetruekeebler · 2004-01-15 02:26 · Score: 2, Funny

Because when people see a picture of Bill Gates, they pretty much assume they're getting a Microsoft product.

--
This is not my sandwich.

An opportunity... by pschmied · 2004-01-15 02:34 · Score: 4, Insightful

...to raise awareness about one of the cooler OS projects out there shouldn't be wasted.

I know that the conventional wisdom is:

FreeBSD is for servers
OpenBSD is for firewalls
NetBSD is for obscure hardware

But, in reality, NetBSD runs on so many platforms as a side effect of their stated policy to implement things the Right Way rather than ever relying on hacks.

NetBSD is one of the cleanest, most logical, and most innovative open source projects out there.

For example, NetBSD takes an insanely good idea (the FreeBSD ports collection) and makes it even better. Pkgsrc (NetBSD's answer to ports) is built in such a way that allows you to run it on Solaris, Linux, and a number of other operating systems. Plus it has a built-in package security auditing tool.

FreeBSD et al are moving toward NetBSD's innovative init system which in my mind combines the power of SysV and the ease of use of *BSD.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe NetBSD was the first OS anywhere to support ipv6.

NetBSD always seems to chug away in relative obscurity, with even BSD folk ignoring and misunderstanding it. Yeah, it's great for embedded work. Yeah, it'll run on almost anything. But it's also a really great workstation. And their uncompromising approach to quality and correct implementation make it a very stable and logical general purpose OS.

So, I for one welcome the new logo, and hope that it helps to bring NetBSD out of the shadows and allows my fellow open source users to enjoy another excellent operating system.

-Peter

--
. Penguins Surely Ca

Re:An opportunity... by SteelX · 2004-01-15 05:58 · Score: 3, Interesting

I've been thinking about checking out NetBSD's pkgsrc for quite a while. It sounds like a really cool idea. You seem to have experience with NetBSD and I was wondering if you could answer a question that I have been pondering for some time.

Would it be possible to use pkgsrc as the main package management system on a Linux box, say, Slackware? What I mean is, forget Slackware's package management system altogether and replace it with NetBSD's pkgsrc.
Re:An opportunity... by pschmied · 2004-01-15 10:07 · Score: 2, Informative

Would it be possible to use pkgsrc as the main package management system on a Linux box, say, Slackware? What I mean is, forget Slackware's package management system altogether and replace it with NetBSD's pkgsrc.

NetBSD has pre-built binaries for just what you describe! Check out http://www.pkgsrc.org for details.

They've got bootstrap source that will compile on a lot, plus binary packages for a bunch of operating systems including Slackware (And Darwin. And Debian. And Irix. And Solaris :-) )

I'm not sure of the state of all the packages on all the different platforms, but my guess is that it works similarly to on NetBSD.

One of the cool side effects of their correct and clean implementation is that you can do interesting things like build embedded NetBSD from a Windows workstation. The cross-compile support is quite simply the most complete.

-Peter

--
. Penguins Surely Ca

The main problem is... by instruktlab · 2004-01-15 03:12 · Score: 2, Insightful

Ok, it seems to me most people here don't seem to look at logo design from an ease of use or professionality standpoint, let alone from a design aspect. Everyone seems to be skating around the fact that with exception to the religious or mythical issues and the problem with a off-the-wall politcal cartoon feel, the design itself is quite the opposite of a business/ease of use point-of-view. Sure it's open source but NetBSD is in the "business" of supplying an open source medium for its users to enjoy and interact with. If anything the logo should almost have a conservative corporate fee, with just a wee bit of open-source attitude to the side just to show that open-source is the sort of black sheep child of the WWW network infrastructure not to mention the software world. So keep your minds open guys. This is a world-based community, and there's probably someone out there offended by the spoof of the Iwo Jima memorial and there could also be some "religious stiff" offended by the devil/daemon aspect. Also remember that the general public doesn't know anything about the greek background of language and their english counterparts, let alone would they really want a lecture on it. When designing you have to take the audience seriously but not yourself too seriously. Creativity can come in spades but if you don't know how to apply it properly it won't get you anything but trouble.

Re:wow by MrNybbles · 2004-01-15 03:48 · Score: 2, Funny

"

It's a BSD flavour to be correct. Or YAUL (Yet another unix like)" -- Anonymous Coward

NAA! (Not Another Acronym!)

--
Losing faith in humanity one person at a time.

Re:devil? by Artifakt · 2004-01-15 03:55 · Score: 4, Insightful

It's not just deeply religious people, or computer illiterate people, or people who leap quickly to stupid assumptions that make this logo a problem. First, the name isn't clear or catchy enough to be widely recognized, so the devil image becomes all most people have to go on. Imagine running across the person wearing a Duke Blue Devils sweatshirt, but the First word is "Forxgnarb", you've never heard the term before, there's no thing or place named that anywhere nearby, and when you ask what the blue devil stands for, the first things you hear are all about vaguely political issues, as seen by some small minority organization. How stupid is it really, to jump to the conclusion the sweatshirt wearer is in some cult?
NetBSD isn't going to get brand recognition from the word, just like Adidas didn't build brand recognition just on the word. It sounds too odd for that. Like Adidas, it's competing against words that have more relevance to the area (Microsoft sounded like computer stuff way back when it started, with words like software already paving the way for recognition - Nike is the greek goddess of victory, as most Olympic atheletes know).
If anything, the cuteness of the logo works against it more than an association with evil. It's a Warner Bros toon style devil. That's already saying "fine for home users, but would you trust a business to it?".

--
Who is John Cabal?

Re:Lame and geeky logo by that+_evil+_gleek · 2004-01-15 05:35 · Score: 2, Insightful

What's so wrong with Pencil? Abstract wierd font logos is very 1980's IMO.
EA's (Electronic Arts) Logo was the best of the genre, and I feel that that really thats stuff has become cookie-cutter, mainly complained about by Comerical Artists looking for work... As far the GNU ... regarding Net's logo, it isn't the pencil in itself, but the fact that its large, and doesnt resemble the classic beasty, and as someone said in another thread they resemble the noids... The thing is too big
To /some/ extent pencil art from an actual contributer to the project to me has more value than a formaliac profesional going-rate-per-hour work. To me that kind of abstract type face logo stuff, has been doon so much, so many tools to do just, that its hardly even applied art, but has become a very /safe/ , bland, choice.

Re:Death Cookie by aWalrus · 2004-01-15 05:41 · Score: 2, Insightful

Jack Chick is full of shit in more ways than I can count. A lot of the stuff in that tract is a good exposition of the systems of control that the catholic church uses, but it's ignoring and corrupting the basic premises that support those sacraments. Furthermore, the idea of a vengeful god that rules by fear is somewhat outdated in the catholic roman Church (old testament stuff). Salvation (or the wafer thing) is not to be denied arbitrarily in order to acquire power. Furthermore, what is exposed there amounts to finding an example of a pedophile priest and jumping to the conclusion that all priests are pedophiles.

Check out some more of the site. It's basically a collection of hate speech (particularly against gay people) in disguise of religious teachings.

--
Overcaffeinated. Angry geeks.

Re:devil? by boog3r · 2004-01-15 06:26 · Score: 2, Insightful

Quick nitpik - it is "Athena Nike" that is the Greek goddess of victory. Athena took a couple other forms too, like "Athena Parthenos".

--
signatures are for fools with hands

Re:angels? by dasunt · 2004-01-15 08:51 · Score: 2, Informative

According to Christian Theology and Mythology, Lucifer (Son of Morning) was God's right hand man, basically the most capable and intelligent angel.

Then he rebelled and took a 1/3rd of the angels with him.

Hey... A unixlike OS for a PC doesn't mean P.C.! by Quixadhal · 2004-01-15 09:20 · Score: 2, Insightful

Hmmmm, troll looks HUNGRY.. guess I'll toss a bone.

I, personally, am deeply offended by the insane attempts of far too many otherwise intelligent people in this decade to bury the age-old stereotypes, differences of belief, and general feelings beneath a very thin veneer of political correctness. What's so wrong about being honest?

I'm not against integration, and I cherish diversity. Learning about other cultures is a good thing, but pretending they aren't different when they are is stupid. If wearing a red shirt is offensive to the group of people who were extras on ST:TOS, should everyone stop wearing red shirts because they MIGHT feel bad? I'd suggest that those people who become upset over P.C. issues should ask themselves why they're upset... and maybe grow up a little.

Where are the Satanists to defend their beliefs? Seriously, if Christians can get all bent out of shape at the logo of a devil, why can't Satanists demand that the cross be banned from public display because it offends them? Either it works both ways, or not at all.

The logo in question is being dragged through the mud because a few religious zealots woke up and started looking at free operating systems and saw a devil? What, are they so stupid that they assumed this literally meant "Satan Inside"? Didn't the cute smile tip them off about the concept of caricature?

I checked my calendar... it's not 040401 yet, and 040104 has passed (YYMMDD anyways), so let's repost this when the time is right.

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NetBSD Announces Logo Design Competition

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