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CCNA Certification Library
Although it is possible to enroll in official ICND and INTRO courses created by Cisco, the books that make up this "library," apparently, are not the books used in those courses. Within the ICND book, Odom refers to "the ICND course, on which the exam is partly based," suggesting that what you have in your hands is a reverse-engineered study guide: a study guide for an exam that is based on a course that does not use said book. Odom occasionally presents tables that he claims come from the ICND course. Clearly, some parts of the course are not fair game for the study guide.
In other words, don't think that just because you are reading the official Cisco press CCNA study guides, you are dealing with a set of information that is as close as possible to the set of information from which the test was drawn.
Studying these books will prepare you for the CCNA in the same way that reading the Encyclopedia Britannica from A to Z will prepare you to identify the capital of Nairobi. It goes without saying that a CCNA candidate should not be studying just to pass a test, she should be studying to qualify herself for a job. But in this case, the difference between the material presented and the material actually making up the test is excessive.
Odom goes to a lot of effort to make the reader feel like he is being spoken to by a friend. "Fun, isn't it?" he writes, after presenting an illustration of function groups and access points that I had to re-draw for myself several times in order to understand. Later, he describes Inverse ARP as "another case of learning by listening, a great lesson for real life!" Gee, thanks. The subtle condescension in the non-humorous asides, the gleeful overuse of exclamation points, and the fable in which Pebbles Flintstone invents networking is compounded by the persistent contextual encapsulation of every single topic in the book. Odom tells you what he's going to tell you, then he tells you, then he tells you what he's told you, much more than necessary.
A better way to put the flustered reader at ease might have been to proofread the books. The ICND guide, especially, is so full of typos that it is often embarrassing to read. In some cases, these are nothing more than obvious misspellings that can be passed over without much more than a little annoyance (e.g. ICND p. 472, "status enquiry messages"). In other cases, the meaning of the sentence is muddled. Worse, the configuration examples have obviously not been proofread either, resulting in, for example, the prompt "R1(config)#" when the appropriate prompt is "R1(config-if)." The difference may seem trivial, but understanding its significance is the kind of stuff the CCNA is all about.
Each book comes with a CD containing a practice test engine and a router simulator (both from Boson). The mistakes in the ICND book pale in comparison to those in the CD test engines. In fact, an argument could be made that studying with those practice tests will hinder more than help the CCNA candidate who has not read the books thoroughly enough to recognize the mistakes. Many multiple-choice questions count correct answers wrong and vice versa (and some of these are taken directly from the books, which usually give the correct answer). A configuration entered into the CLI on a simulator question will be graded as wrong, and the user will then be presented with an identical configuration as an example of the correct way to solve the problem.
None of these problems change the fact that these books will, if used correctly, absolutely help you pass the CCNA. But do it this way: Read the INTRO book. Take the exam right away. If you don't pass, flip through the ICND book and find the areas that you actually need to work on. You'll save months of study time that could be better spent working on your CCNP.
I give the library as a whole 3 out of 5 stars.
You can purchase the CCNA Certification Library from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.
Why don't they call it, the "how to get your job outsourced to india library." FP!
There's an article here that mentions the unabridged version. It's a must for serious CCNA folk.
Then again, why are they reading Slashdot?
I mean, come on now. If this networking novice can pass a test for a networking cert then the value of that cert is substantially reduced. The CCNA is almost as worthless as the MCSE and A+. Any schmuck can get their MCSE.
Yup. Book reviews here are in fact adverts. All the Slasshies run to BandN and buy it after reading the GLOWING review here. Has a Slashdot Ed *ever* read a book "he" doesn't like? I don't think so... Especially if it's on sale at BandM....
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
Does anyone know how much of an option a CCNA track would be for someone who has gotten outsourced? That is, is there a consistent demand for more CCNAs, or is it just a nice but basically economically worthless distinction like the MCSE?
Amazingly enough this article post coincided with my yearning to improve my understanding of networking and computers in general. In the past 24 hours I've hit about 15 sites with tutorials and information on passing the A+ cert exam. I completely forgot about the CCNA.
Hopefully I can find those books somewhere on the internet, because I am even more broke than a blonde joke.
What other certs would anyone recommend? I just want to add some credibility to my resume.
Thanks in advance.
You're nothing; like me.
You need at least a CCIE to get a networking job in the us now.
I passed exam 640-801 in one try, with no real networking experience and having taken no classes.
And we're worried about tech jobs being sent to India...
DONT CLICK ON PARENT. It takes you to a pop-up spouting Goatse site!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
I do have reservations about proprietry/product specific examinations. Most of the guys working at our place are CS grads, or Maths/Engineering grads. People I have interviewed before with Microsoft certification or Cisco certification are great with deep but narrow skills, usually with a good measure of vocational experience at actually doing it practically too. However unless you are picking a candidate for a very specific (and usually short contract) job I would treat such qualifications with a pinch of salt, as usually the CS grad can do as good or better just by rtfm.
More interestingly some companies provide proprietry training and instruction that is very 'insider' and 'closed'. Its very difficult to find good staff for these problems without going to the company and headhunting guys who are just comming off the end of the course. We tend to avoid such solutions now because the staffing costs are far higher. Always better to use general principles and open source type solutions because you will have a far wider pool of skilled labor to tap.
I even let my CCNP/CCDA lapse recently. When CCIE's even have a hard time finding jobs the value of these cert's is dubious at best. They might get you in the door over someone else to get the interview but real work experience is far more valuable than the paper. I passed the CCNP tests without having worked on a router in 3 years at the point I did them. That should say something.
For the CCNA tests just use what's freely available on the Internet. They're more than enough materials/information out there to get the basics and pass. That's what I did, although I did get the CCNP library books. Much more in depth coverage and knowledge needed in order to get to the next level. Definitely not a paper certification (CCNP).
But practice, experience puts the knowledge to test...either you can or can not.
Example: I've never taken a car engine apart...but I could buy a book and read how to do it....but it's another matter to try and put to task what you have learned,
Gary, CCNP, GCIH
Well, if you put up something online that you don't own the copyrights for, what do you expect?
For all you who are bemoaning the CCNA as a "paper cert," I'm going to point out what is apparently an oft-overlooked fact: CCNA stands for Cisco Certified Network /Associate./ It's not the CCNP (Professional) or CCIE (Internetwork Expert.) Yes, the exam is easy; of course, it's easy to pass on the first try with a little bit of studying. However, you still have to know a few basic things going into the exam to pass it: you have to have a basic understanding of how IP internetworks function, a rough concept of how a few routing protocols work, and the appropriate commands to use on a Cisco router to configure common types of network interfaces. That's all they're trying to assess your ability to do. You don't look for a CCNA if you need a network architect; you hire a CCNA to help configure a
network that someone else has designed. Some companies will undoubtedly misunderstand this, hire a CCNA, and feel misled when they get someone who knows how to type "interface ethernet0/0, ip address 192.168.1.1 255.255.255.0, no shut," but the failure is on their end -- they did not look into what the certification covers. It's all there on Cisco's webpage.
Ahem. Nairobi is the capital of Kenya. Perhaps the poster should read his Encyclopedia Britannica.
Or at least give the World Factbook or WikiPedia a quick look.
I can't believe they actually expect people to know what "CCNA" means. As if we didn't have enough acronyms already.
If you want to get a CCNA, just read the book by Todd Lammle. When I went to study for it last year, everyone in my group recommended Lammle, and guess what? It's good. Very good.
This is the same thing that happens with most testing in secondary grades. The students memorize just enough of the material to pass the test.
... and then get you to the certification, leaving you to figure out the last part on your own.
:) Cram studying does not lead to long term information retention. How much Calculus do you recall, after years of not actually using it?
Bingo - that's it, the problem, the head of the nail that we're hitting (as it were).
The reason that certifications have lost so much ground in the last five to ten and the reason that nobody respects MCSEs any longer is because of the nature of the testing. When certification exams are a matter of cramming your mind full of administrivia and memorizing cheat-sheets that teach the quick powers-of-two needed to compute a subnet mask, it's no wonder that the average level of the passing applicant falls. Facts and Figures can be memorized with some ease.
MCSE exams fell prey to an entire cottage industry that exists to help people pass them. Think of every radio ad you've ever heard promising that wealth, riches, and beautiful women can all be yours if you just step into the magical and happy world of Information Technology! The industry's job is to ram you through a bootcamp training session and then have you dump that information back out on a certification exam, automagically, while your brain is still raw and bleeding. How much you retain isn't important to them at all; they try to drill into you the erroneous concept that Certification == Job
The brain dump sites online, the exam cram book writers, and the people promising instant results can actually deliver: it is totally possible to ace a certification by studying old tests, reading old questions, and overloading for the purpose of passing your exam.
And, just like back in college, you will not remember most of this information after the fact.
The only way to really prove yourself is to start small, to learn what you can, and to etch it into your mind through repetition and hands-on experience.
Do what you have to to get your certification. Do not expect to land an 80k/yr job off of it alone -- it won't work. (God help you if it does, you'll learn what being fired feels like very shortly thereafter.) Expect to land a starter job, and use that to make an impression on your bosses; learn fast, learn often, be a good employee.
The recommendations of people you've worked for and with will serve you better in the long run than your certification will. It's time to rely on your qualities, rather than the qualities the paper says you have.
It's a common trap to take offense to an interviewer's question -- the solution is to just answer the question (for readers who didn't get it from the OP). Never mind that you've been programming in C for 10 years, just explain what a pointer is.
This cert is a foot in the door. As another poster pointed out it is about certifying that you can perform BASIC networking tasks without assistance. The CCNP and CCIE certs are about being able to design and debug medium to _very_ large networks. None of these certs will get you a job by themselves howver if I have two people competing for a job with equal experience and only one has a cisco cert all other factors being equal I am going to give the nod to the person with the cert. One reason for that is the person with the cert took the time to _prove_ what they know. Without violating the Cisco NDA _all_ of the current exams make you configure either real or simulated equipment so with these certs your prospective employer has some assurance that you really can do the job at hand.
Almost every semi-reasonable cert out there (MC*, CCNA...) has guaranteed-pass training courses and a myriad of books to choose from in order to practially guarantee that, when used properly (as any high school grad should be able to do), you will pass the test.
All certs need a hands-on test like the CCIE. Or a person to person interview where the obvious numbnuts can be weeded out. Without this the cert is just another test of one's ability to memorize the answers that they received through some test training facility.
I once worked with an MCSE who, when I told him to do something in User Manager, asked me where it was. I couldn't believe it. But he was serious.
As for whether or not it's a SlashVert, let's consider the review itself...
I don't know if I'd consider that a glowing recommendation, or even a SlashVert. Maybe the three-of-five stars was given because you can use the handy books to prop up failing table legs, or as long-lasting coasters.
There are LOTS of "boot camps" out there that will guarantee you'll be certified, for a price.
Check google for
"boot camp" MCSE 2000
and you'll probably find one in your area.
Not "any schmuck" will be able to get certified
-but-
"any schmuck" with the cash will be able to get certified.
Hey everybody!! I'm looking at gay porno!!!
atl-f4
Its just a test. why so upset? some companies value it and some don't. Its hard to judge someone with no experience. this allows a foot in the door. kinda like a degree. the more experience you have the less important a degree or cert becomes. but its a good place to start when you're just starting a new field. all test are flawed. and i've met some pretty clueless people with C.S. degrees when it came to networking and hardware even after RTFMing. having a ccna or mcse doesn't mean youre an idiot and it also doesn't mean you know what you're doing either. same thing for degrees as well
Yes but if you follow the link to buy it, OSDN get's a cut. SlashVert.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
Not much real demand at all for CCNA's. People that are going to use cisco usually have larger networks. They dont want entry level people working on a large network. Its definately a catch 22, you need real experience from a job but you cant get real experience with out the job.
The best thing to do is cross train, get a related job like systems administration and then try to help out or move into a position.
A lot of HR people will put CCNA on a job posting just to fluff the requirements. When people look for cisco certifications they look for CCNP, or more likely a CCIE.
BTW, the CCIE requires a hands on lab test, which is what I think Microsoft should do for the MCSE to restore some value to it.
For those who are interested, I run a free
website (simple registration required) that has
tons of CCNA, CCDA, CCDP, CCNP and CCIE goodies.
The url is http://www.gdd.net
Yeah, that about covers it.
In my case I started this at home. Got the "addiction" and started buying and tinkering with computers as fast as my budget would allow. I used to be the guy who bought new games and secretly hoped something wouldn't work right out of the box so I could figure out why. One day I looked up and I knew enough that someone would actually pay me to fix PCs for a living.
Eventually that led me to better technician jobs and finally the desire to work on bigger problems. I got an entry level position here where I still work and started learning networks from my boss (And he started his "addiction" in the early 70's). At one point about four years ago management decided that we all needed to be MCSE certified and laid out a bunch of money to a training company for classes and vouchers. We were running Novell then and since we had been given the "We're switching to NT now" speech (again from management) they felt like we needed some training.
We were all like "Ok, whatever." I went to the first class and tried to get into it but I wasn't learning anything. Sure I was learning how much Microsoft thought of their product but everything relevant was stuff I learned on the job. I ended up passing on the rest of the classes and just picking up some "Dummies" books and finishing it on my own.
The vouchers my company paid for were of some use (because I wouldn't have bothered to pay for those tests on my own) and we ended up using the class time for another employee who needed some SQL training but the content was worthless. It amounted to me spending time learning enough "Administrivia" as you so nicely put it just to pass a stupid test I didn't really need and didn't want in the first place.
On the other hand my brother jumped into this field because you could make bank in it. He went to college, I didn't. He has a CIS (or one of those, I don't really know or care much) degree and as soon as he got out he went through the Certification feeding frenzy and jumped into a job from the get go that paid more than I was making. I tried to talk him into spending some time to learn a foundation but he wanted the money and he got it. The thing is though he's lost and in way over his head. I think it's only a matter of time before he's looking for work because he doesn't love this stuff and he doesn't know it well enough. His paper means not much in the long run.
It might sound like I'm looking forward to him hitting the wall but I'm not. I really just wish he'd listened to me (and had gone after something he enjoyed instead of what he thought was going to get him in a BMW faster). I've seen enough of the paper admins to know that no good comes of it.
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
I don't know about no one having respect for MCSE's anymore. I still see lots of job postings that require an MCSE,CCNA, etc. Keep in mind that tech people don't usually hire tech people, HR people hire them. HR people are not able to determine an individuals competence, so they rely on things like certifications. If they hire someone and they turn out to be a raving ninny, they can at least point to a piece of paper and say "How was I supposed to know they were an idiot, they were certified!"
The only certification that counts for me these days is the CISSP. But I'm only a hiring manager. What do I know?
I'm currently studying for the CCNA. I'm taking it in 1 night per week evening classes. The whole course (4 semesters) takes just about a year.
I found that the 'old' chapter test exams were just multiple choice questions, and I beleive the final CCNA exam was also a multiple choice exam. Everyone knows just how easy multiple choice exams are, and I was happily getting 90-100% throughout the semester.
This semester we've been put onto version 3.0 of the CCNA. It's now a multiple choice multiple answer style test. ie, "pick the correct 2 statments from the choice of 6". You can still get lucky, but its much more difficult unless you really know your stuff.
I think people taking the version 3.0 CCNA exams will find it harder, and it will re-establish some credibility to the certification. Having said that its important to remember the CCNA is only the first step to the 'real' certs such as CCNP/CCIE.
"certified" is right, in more ways than one! :-)
Lookee there! It's apparently a Slashdot-Certified Networking Guy!
Wish I'd thought of it...
For those that would die defending it, Freedom
has a sweet taste that the protected will never know.
FUNNAY!
It's depressing that Michael's description of the book is basically negative, but still touts it as a complete preparation for the CCNA exam. Which suggests that the exam is basically pretty lame. I guess the comparison with the Capital of Nairobi (about $2 billion dollars, I think) is all too apt! In both cases, you're memorizing trivial facts without really understanding.
Any, since Slashdot is spamming for Barnes&Noble, I might as well spam for Amazon. And no, I don't want to argue about patents.
Anybody try the flash cards?
CCNA v3.0 now includes a lab simulation as well; it hasnt been a multiple-choice-questions-only test for at least a year. They've changed it to make it more difficult and get rid of all the "paper CCNAs" who've never touched a switch before.
While i fully agree with the MCSE argument (i've had MCSE on windows NT4 at age of 14 with about an hour of study per exam), CCNA is nothing like it. The earlier claim that the poster knows people who have passed CCNA without ever having loged into a router is a blatant lie.
The test (which i passed about 5 days ago) is LOADED with practical questions. A scenario, a picture, and an emulator. You have to "configure" the routers and fix the problems. Configuration problems varied from incorrect RIP settings, to wrong network mask, to dial-on-demand settings for ISDN.
The score required for passing is very high as well (85+ percent) so i honestly doubt that it's possible to pass without having pretty solid knowledge of the covered domains. In addition to this i'm also a cisco certified instructor and teach at the local cisco accademy. The volume of knowledge necessary to pass CCNA is pretty high. Recent changes in cisco ccna curriculum (switch from 2.14 to version 3.0) make me relatively safe in my assumption that CCNA is in no danger of becoming a paper cert.
I passed the CCNA near the end of 1998. Its main value as far as I can tell is that it is placed within easy reach of the staff of small resellers. You sign a form and you're an authorized reseller, but if you have two CCNAs you're a Cisco Premier partner and you get access to some products that the authorized guys don't get to touch.
:-)
:-)
Once you've completed the CCNA and the companion Cisco Certified Design Associate you're ready to start on the Network and Design Professional (CCNP/CCDP) certifications. The three core exams are routing, switching, and remote access, then you take the troubleshooting for the Network Pro and the design exam for the Design Pro. I passed these at the end of 2000 and recently completed my three year recertification.
The CCNP/CCDP has been a huge career benefit for me. I've gone from Windows Flunky(tm) at crappy Fortune 500 companies to nothing but IOS and FreeBSD in my own business - life is sweet
My next step is the carrier oriented Cisco Certified Internetwork Professional. Four exams covering routing, BGP, multicast, and I'm taking the MPLS specilization because the equipment needed for practice is inexpensive.
I find that the coursework and structure provided by the Cisco certifications is roughly equivalent to obtaining a masters degree in the field.
I'd expand more on the subject but that first CCIP exam is headed right at me
I am very easy to get along with, but I don't have time to waste being nice to people who are being stupid. -Theo
As an alumni of the cisco netacad program, I found myself looking for resource material that I might find useful as a refresher before recertifying and pressing on towards getting my CCNP. While browsing through the local book stores, I noticed this book on the rack, and decided to page through it. Utterly worthless. Especially with the test format for the CCNA getting ready to change to increase the difficulty (Cisco at least is trying to stop the CCNA from becoming too much like the A+ in that any schmoe off the street could study the test and pass), the best bet for any prospectives wanting their CCNA to add to the wall, would be to bid on a 2514 and a 2500 series router and a DTE/DCE cable and some AUIs. That comes to around $350.00. A 1900 series switch is going on Ebay for less than $100. With those items in, you have more than enough at your disposal to practice not only routing protocals, ACLs and setting up VLANs, but also a nice addition to add to a pseudo closet rack. Instead of wasting your money on the books, buying these items and putting some time in actually on the routers would be a much wiser route. D.
I''d certainly hire CCNA's in advance of anyone else for a position involving networking.
... 5/6 yrs each) IT staff I'm responsible for NOT ONE understands ip networking :-( and my boss (responsible for hiring) cannot tell a private from a public IP (don't even ask him about rfc 1918 ... d'uh what's an rfc & why do we need to use that range ...).
:-D
.. yes I am a CCNA
You get someone that knows basic routing and subnetting.
Out of the 5 (experienced
Well thats my rant for the evening
ps
Worst
I dont'know about other certs, but for the CCNA cisco offers a service know as cisco networking academy.
In 2002 I engaged in the networking academy and I must say I was impressed. We had 6 months of classes with plenty of hands on activities and laboratories. We learned a lot with the practical classes. I got in touch with different routers and switches and in the labs we built full networks passing through carefully thought design to mounting the cables and configuring the routers, switches and PCs. To receive the academy diploma you had to produce a threaded case study detailing every aspect of a network design for a school campus.
I can't say if all the academies are like this, but I was pretty much satisfied with the service I got. I got out of the course with a job offer that was pretty good for a 16 year old kid still in highschool. I really think that the networking academy offered me more than a paper saying that I'm a CCNA. One of the coolest things is that after engaging in the networking academy you gain access to a site that offers all the studying material constantly updated, even after you're out of the academy.
What I mean is, if you're really into networking and would like to get a ccna, you should check a networking academy. Learning from the book is probably cheaper and faster but messing with a real router is much better.
Just remember, YMMV!!
If I hadn't been studying at the time I would have documented them and sent them to Cisco. Come on Cisco, consumers of books are not free proofreaders. Although most of the content is pretty good, it is badly presented, and does not flow well (the labs should really be integrated with the relevant chapters).
Please, if you need a study guide, buy something else (Sybex are usually OK). The only reason I bought these is that they were the only books available for the new exams. I will not be buying Cisco Press books again.
Good comment. Give this guy a mod point or two. :)
If you trace it back, you go first to terrato.org (whois has fake info), which takes you to nero-online.org (whois has fake info), which takes you to home.houston.rr.com/dmdtech/nero for the pictures and the audio - enough complaints to abuse@rr.com should get this guy TOSsed. If you look at the whois for nero-online.org a little closer, you see the nameservers for the domain are dmdtech.org and if you go search for that, tada - a guy in Houston comes up - maybe the same guy ?? is that you Darren Dupre ?
After reading everyone's CCNA/cert stories, I guess I should add mine. Almost three years ago I worked for a systems integration company as a Sr. Network Technician (with the help of an A+ cert.) The real fun and excitement was in the engineering department, and I was told the sure way in was to get my CCNA. Well I got my Sybex book, and with the help of our small lab (two Cisco routers and a catalyst switch) I received my CCNA with a 93?.
h tm l
Thrilled as I was, the engineering department was taking some hits, and I couldn't get in. Instead of remaining stagnant I took it on myself to get my CCDA, which I got a month later. Engineering department still going down, me still wanting to rise, I looked for something else.
At about this time my company was trying to get a contract working with Nortel routers and switches. "This is my chance!" I proclaimed. One and a half months later I was a NNCSS (Nortel Networks Certified Support Specialist.) The contract fell through.
The engineering department was taking BIG hits (as the rest of the networking industry was) but I was determined. We only had one CCNP in the company, and my goal was set. With the help of the lab, and some determination, in three months I was/am a CCNP and CCDP. Did I get in the engineering department? Nope. Did I give up? Nope. I got my CCIE study guide, and was all ready to rent time at a MAJOR Cisco lab at The University of Colorado - Boulder (I am not even sure that they have this lab anymore.) A month later there were two people left in the engineering department, and I got layed off. After six months of unemployment checks and sending resumes, I gave up and decided to go back to school and do some independent consulting for some small businesses in the Denver metro area. Now I am again looking for a full time job, and I am dealing with the same problems I dealt with two years ago.
I am happy to admit that all my hands on Cisco experience have not been in a production environment. I understand that the difference between the lab and the real stuff is huge. But the certs didn't, and still don't even get my foot in the door. My resume has been critiqued by many people, and is in tip-top shape. I do have experience on Gateways (Nomadix) and many switches (SMC) and have worked on some MDU engineering projects, but now I am five months away from the expiration of my CCNP/DP and I question whether I should even spend the money to recertify. Any suggestions?
Petition Congress to tax American companies who outsource offshore:
http://www.petitiononline.com/2357850/petition.
Portfolio.
Nuff said.
I agree that a degree isn't always everything. That's part of my point. So what, you have a MCSE thingy, or you finished two weeks of CS at a local devry...
What have you done with this?
If I were in a position to hire people I'd take people who have accomplished things [e.g. work on their own tangible projects] over people who just have a degree or diploma.
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
I am currently a high school student at a technical high school. I am studying CCNA and the such, and I have found the CCNA cert to be worthless. The book has no effect on myself of the rest of my peers. We basically threw out the idea of reading the book and started a new focus on hands-on.
It seems hands-on learning beats the book any day. I have a friend who graduated from the same class last year and was hired right out of high school into a job in the tech department of a massive company with a starting salary of $40,000. HE HAS NO CCNA. His employer (Millennium Technology Group) never even thought to ask for such a worthless cert as the CCNA. It all had to do with his real-world experience.
I talk much with this friend (Jeff) and he has told me of all the other job interviews he has had. None of the employers out there care what your certifications are as long as you know what you are doing (yes this means experience).
I also know a few people who know nothing about networking, yet have still obtained thier CCNA cert. This was before the new version of which has just come out, so I am personally hoping the new version helps to test more accurately.
I'm not trying to bust your nuts or anything, but you're out of touch... (I don't know if you've always been a teacher, or if it's just been a long time since you worked in the private sector.)
First and foremost, there are very few "good" HR people recruiting for technology positions.
In 99% of cases* Human Resources people recruiting for Technology positions know absolutely nothing about the kind of work that needs to be done, and have absolutely no frame of reference with which to evaluate potential candidates.
The only criteria they can use is the resume itself, and the buzzwords that are on it, to include certifications.
Work experience, for the most part, is simply not enough right now.
I believe that for the most part, this is a temporary phenomena, the result of the economic conditions of the last few years. Because of the layoffs at IT companies, there is simply a lot of technical talent out there right now that is either unemployed, or underemployed. The result is a very competitive IT job market.
There are a lot of guys applying for jobs that have a great deal of experience. If you're up against another candidate with a similar amount of experience, you'd better hope he doesn't have as many certifications as you, because if he does, he'll get the call every time.
In many cases, people with certs are getting interviews, when uncertified candidates with vastly more experience aren't.
No disrespect intended, but it's a jungle out here.
* 99% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
For those that would die defending it, Freedom
has a sweet taste that the protected will never know.
As others have highlighted the new version (version 3) is far more difficult than the old version (2.1.4). To give you some idea, I am doing the CCNA through the Cisco netacad website (one night per week at TAFE). I had bought the CCNA library prior to starting and had done some study in my own time. When we first start a semester we are given a test to do which is basically the same as the final test for the semester - the idea being so you can get an idea of what the unit will be covering. I got about 60% in this test. Shortly after we changed to version 3.0 and completed the unit. I got 70% in the final exam. Fortunately, there were only four in the class of 20 (including myself) who got 70% or more and thus we were scaled up and passed. I'm sure anyone can download braindumps from the internet and pass, but to reiterate what others have said, there's a difference in passing and exam and then actually being able to use the information you used to pass the exam in a real-world situation. Personally I'm enjoying the CCNA and I've found it's helped me with a good grounding in networking and I'm only half way through!
What I'd love to know is why it is okay for Red Hat to use Red Hat Certified Engineer but that it isn't okay for MS to use Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer?
I guess that's who the certs are really for.
When I'm hiring, I get someone who does understand the subject to interview the candidates -- even if I have to bring in people from outside the company to help the interviewing.
I'd never hire a network engineer who didn't successfully answer questions about basic routing and subnetting -- CCNA or MCSE or BSEE or PhD-CS. I may not know all this stuff, but I've certainly worked with people who do.
Hey, if you think you can get a job after passing a test, (and keep it for more than a few weeks) maybe you should consider something closer to REALITY
To make the claim that certs are worthless is going a bit too far. I have my MCSE 2000 and CCNA, and was prepared for them both due to experience. And you know what? Ever since I got those, I get phone calls all the time for job opportunities - I rarely recieved those before.
Certs are good for marketing yourself and can be a great method of showing your own drive. My employers have been impressed with my initiative to learn more and more about technology, and although they don't consider someone with a cert to be an expert, they do see them as highly motivated.
Just my two cents.
first post fagetz! lolo~~!
I think this pretty much sums up the cluelessness of people with certs. And it also says a lot about your work environment.
Is that like the capital of London, or the capital of Paris?
Ceci n'est pas un sig.
thats the king of all spit back memorized facts certs - you should seriously consider the SANS Institute certs much more valuable for security
Who said it was okay?
Personally, I know a couple RHCE's who are just as brain dead as the majority of MCSE's I meet.
I also know a REAL, OFFICIAL, honest to god, Mac Guru. Old, Old cert. Apple doesn't even offer it anymore.
He's probably the smartest person I know. He could easily walk in and take the MCSE tests without studying, or at least with only doing a quick brush up. He refuses to though.
I have no certs. I want no certs. I need no certs. (well, except when I went on that job interview last week, they were all over the certs).
I said if that's what they needed, good luck, left them my card and told them to feel free to call me when their still wet behind the ears MCSE blows up their exchange server.
Just once, I'd like it if someone called me "Sir".
Without adding, "You're creating a scene."
Well, you'd probably be one of them clueless morons holding a paper certification then.
You say that there are only "some" boot camps still out there? Mr. Google has a different viewpoint. Mr. Google has thousands of links to them.
They're still out there and they're still doing a thriving business. Whether you want to believe that your certification is worthless or not, the fact is that it can be had by anyone with the money to pay a boot camp.
Guaranteed.
IMHO, I find playing with the hardware a much faster way of learning the capabilities than reading a book. Using the internet usually answers my questions faster also.
You got your wish! Moderators have no sense of irony.