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Recent Apt-Gettable Goodness From Ark, Conectiva
JimLynch writes "When you think of Linux, certain names spring to mind: Red Hat, SuSE--even Libranet. But you almost never hear someone say "Hey, did you download the latest version of Ark Linux?" Well, it's too bad, because Ark Linux might someday be a viable contender for the Linux desktop crown and it surely deserves some recognition as such at this point. Despite being labeled an alpha, Ark Linux is one amazing little distro." In other distro news, lmvaz writes "Conectiva, the biggest Linux distribution of Brazil and South America released yesterday the 'Conectiva Linux 10 - Technology Preview 2,' bringing the kernel 2.6.1, KDE 3.2 rc1, Gnome 2.4, Mozilla 1.5, OpenOffice 1.1, etc. The release notes are available here and the torrents for download are here. The final release is expected by the end of the first semester of this year. It's a nice bundle for people wanting to help getting the 2.6 linux kernel in shape."
FART
lets dumb it down some more! we need more AOLers
as in all other things, if you can afford to market a product to millions, you're likely to end up with a larger share of the pie. Whether it's worth it is up to you...
Simon
Physicists get Hadrons!
It's not exactly apt-gettable goodness I'm afraid (which is too bad, apt-get is slick as hell).
It's a nice bundle for people wanting to help getting the 2.6 linux kernel in shape." __________________________________________________ -
"wanting to help getting".
hrmmmm veddddy interesting :) Good grasp of the English language Einstein!
For some reason, it contains two of every binary.
http://www.poconocompanions.com
DUPE
Why do we need so many distros when we already have 1 or 2 well developed, well supported good ones? Instead of making a thousand for different purposes, why not just make it easier to customize Red Hat or Suse to fit all those purposes(i.e. LinuxBBC, uclinux, etc)?
I appreciate the efforts of these "alternative" Linuxen, but frankly Debian will forever remain the hacker's choice. Let's look at the statistics:
In conclusion, I would advise all of my followers to boycott Conectiva and other so-called "clones."
Sincerely,
Seth Finklestein
Distribution Watchdog
I'm not Seth Finkelstein. I still speak the truth.
I use Gentoo; how does this affect me??
Ark Linux is not based on Debian, but is instead based on Red Hat. See the article - they admit that they've goofed.
APT is now avaliable for RedHat distros.. check out this page
I'd suggest it's a combination of 'not-invented-here' syndrome, along with a gross under-estimation of the amount of work required. There are exceptions, but I'd guess most fall into this...
:-)
Waay back in the mists of time, when slackware was on single-figure floppies, I wrote and distributed the 'MDK', a unix-like distribution for the Atari-ST using MiNT as the unix-like kernel. It's bloody difficult, even with the relatively-tiny number of packages that I used, to keep everything in sync. It didn't help that compiling gcc took 8 hours, either
Simon.
Physicists get Hadrons!
Nothing says "professional" like scheduling release times around school semesters.
"We'll fix those security vulnerabilities once these pesky midterms are done".
How does this affect Gentoo? Thanx.
dude, you lost. apt-get is avaliable on RedHat. don't be a sore loser
Alright, let's stop letting microsoft do all our visual design. Evidenced here. That looks remarkably like WinXP's Control Panel. I'm sorry, but the general trend in desktop distros, especially ones with KDE, is to make things look like windows. Can we please try to innovate a little more on the user interface? I use Enlightenment, I think it does a fairly good job of this. I mean, some of the top downloads for themes are based on Mac's OS X. We need a defined Linux-look and feel that's not based on something developed by someone else. The Linux desktop should not try to be a clone of the Windows. see here.
Since when has this country used intellectual elite as a pejorative term?
Ark is not debian based, as you state, but apt is avaliable for RPM based distributions:
http://ayo.freshrpms.net
Is it just me or am I the only one who can't find an English page form this distros creators. I'm not some crazy "only English" freak, but unfortunately thats the only langauage I speak... well, barely.
404
i'm not the same guy you replied too. but you're a fool if you think installing APT makes your system Debian. there's a lot more to a Debian box than just APT. the original poster was complaining that Ark is not Debian based, which is completely correct. The fact that you can slap APT on this RH-based distro is irrelevant.
Who said anything about apt making your system into Debian?
I believe boobsea was trying to say that apt-get was avaliable for RedHat distro's. You and the other guy is just trying to rub in the fact "its not Debian" in order to make it somehow look inferior.
Go here for FTP and HTTP mirrors of the site.
I'm puking constantly. I can't even keep water down.
insert a few links.
try to sound intelligent
appear self-assured
wait for the karma to come rolling in.
Hi,
The Univ. of Minnesota is increasingly anti-student. Especially when theres a game going on. Why do they have to schedule these basketball and football games at the expense of student inconvinience? There is no parking space within 8 blocks and its cold as FUCK.
This is wrong. A university is a place to study. These games are really making students dumber and dumber as time goes on. And the smart students dont have a place to park because of these dumb PEOPLE.
Thanks for listening., If you have any problems with what i wrote here, please write them down on a piece of paper and shove it up your rectums. Likewise if you think that games are important, watch them, but dont block parking spaces. Students want to STUDY, you know...
XXX
Just sit there and continue to compile away...
so I found that english page... So not only can I barely speak english, I'm stupid too.
404
light your ass on fire with a q-tip and give me a call in 47 minute
Too many distractions, aka, distributions.
I don't want to attract flames en masse, but I am about to. Flame accordingly.
A large part of leadership is doing what's best for the project, and that includes a) giving up control when required, and b) reorganizing where required in order to best utilize resources. This discussion of Ark Linux (which I've heard of but is basically a small player) has helped me to realize that we're being held back by our disunity as a community and our insistence on doing everything by ourselves individually instead of focusing on more communal efforts in which resources are shared for the common good.
I think that the Linux distro leaders (not just Ark, I don't mean to single them out) should begin looking into the possibility of friendly mergers, a la the "mostly failed United Linux". There's a massive duplication of effort in the Open-Source and Free Software communities, and it is literally draining the already limited resources of the community. We have easily 100 different distros, 90% of them are clones of other distros or are so similar as to make themselves irrelevent, and they are all hard at work adding the new Gnome, the new KDE, the new *whatever* into their newest version instead of actually doing something innovative with their time. Linux still has useability issues that existed at the beginning, but everybody's too engrossed in dividing the miniscule Linux market share a hundred ways rather than working together to create a single magnificent system that would dwarf the proprietary competition and create massive acceptance and use of open software and operating systems.
I understand that the guys who have their own distros love their distros and think that they are the best distros out there, but really, is that as important or worthwhile as working together on creating something totally new, rather than just duplicating other people's distributions and putting your own name on it? There are some great hackers out there putting out distros, but they'll never make a name for themselves compiling a distro that less than 20 people will use regularly. They should focus on doing something new, filling a niche that hasn't been filled yet.
As Tina Turner sang, "We don't need another distro". But there are lots of things we DO need, and reaching out to others to propose joining forces would free valuable and talented people up to to valuable and talented things. I'm not questioning the motives of the distro leaders, and I don't mean to offend anybody or come off as bossy and demanding. I'm just saying that if we want Linux to succeed, we have to work together and make sacrifices. We should strive for unity and cooperation where possible, because we are currently NOT using our resources effectively.
I'm not normally an irrational zealous dickhead, but I figure "When in Rome..."
So they have the latest beta of KDE, but they can't have the most recent stable Mozilla release?
Its a joke, don't mod me down.
Morphing Software
Please post a summary
apt4rpm (if I recall correctly) was developed by Conectiva employees, and Conectiva has used apt for several years, possibly since their first public release. They're not based on Debian, correct -- they're more like Mandrake, a Red Hat based distro that has diverged as it's matured.
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
Hi,
The Univ. of Minnesota is increasingly anti-student. Especially when theres a game going on. Why do they have to schedule these basketball and football games at the expense of student inconvinience? There is no parking space within 8 blocks and its cold as FUCK.
This is wrong. A university is a place to study. These games are really making students dumber and dumber as time goes on. And the smart students dont have a place to park because of these dumb PEOPLE.
Thanks for listening., If you have any problems with what i wrote here, please write them down on a piece of paper and shove it up your rectums. Likewise if you think that games are important, watch them, but dont block parking spaces. Students want to STUDY, you know...
XXX
This exact comment has already been posted. Try to be more original...
It always annoys me that every time a redhat/kde-based distro comes out, people complain that it should include gnome. If you want redhat-gnome distribution just get the damn fedora core and you'll be all set. There isn't a good, free, redhat complaint kde distribution (I'm not counting mandrake...that thing is not nearly as simple as redhat...it has way too much stuff in it. Fedora core has just the basic things in it and thats the reason why i like it). I can install suse and be happy with it, but they do not provide iso images which is annoying too.
:) :)
So basicaly, if you want gnome/redhat type of a deal, get fedora and stop your bitching.
If you are happy with mandrake, so be it.
But if you want a simple, kde/redhat based distribution, then youre fucked.
Ark doesn't count either because their installation process is too simplified. For example, I have few hard drives in my computer and I like to select which hard drive to install to, plus i'd like to patrition it manually. In ark linux you cannot do that. Its too simplified. It just takes over everything.
Suse is only one who gets it right, exactly the way I want it. They just need to provide those damn iso's (no, i am not going to buy the cds, i'm a poor college student). What sucks though, novell just bought them out, and they bought out ximian, so I bet they fuck it up completly. Damn.
Oh, and I didn't plan to start a holy jihad up in here. I was merely writing my thoughts.
All I ever wanted was a nice, kde-only based distribution that doesn't have 3 million packages but only the basic ones: KDE, mplayer, kplayer, Kopete, koffice and thats about it
Oh, and don't forget a simple but powerfull installation process.
KDE -> Only desktop
Mplayer/Kplayer -> Kplayer is kde frontend to mplayer which can play pretty much every media format
Kopete -> kde messenger that can connect to all the protocols
Koffice -> good enough office suite for college use
What else could one possibly want?
Anybody listening?
Interiot is a known troll who goes into random discussions and accuses people of wild things and tries to get them modded down.
Do not reward this behavior.
I don't think Novell will change this policy - their purchase of SUSE had a commercial basis, so nobody from Novell salesreps will be happy to see SUSE sales going down due to the fact that most customers find it convenient to download their product for free. To my mind, the most pretty software download policy belongs to Oracle. You can download everything for free from their OTN network. The software downloaded works OK without any key activation. Brilliance for developers. For run-time environment one will buy the licence anyways.
MySQL Error 1040: Can't return sig, Too many connections!
for shitheads like Cmdr. Cocko.
Why not just build your own linux, like a true linux-geek?!?!? i do, i make it any way i want it. Distro's are always what someone else wants not you.
t's a nice bundle for people wanting to help getting the 2.6 linux kernel in shape." :) Good grasp of the English language Einstein!
- "wanting to help getting". hrmmmm veddddy interesting
"it's a nice bundle for people wanting to help getting the 2.6 linux kernel in shape."
What is this? "wanting to help getting".
Hrmmmm, I find that English is best digested when written correctly.
You have a good grasp of the English language Einstein!
Of course the visual interface is a copy. The whole thing is a copy! Every "open source project" is just an an attempt to copy someone elses innovation. If you disagree, don't mod this down - post a counter example!
It isn't a question of "we need", and it never has been. People create new Linux distributions for the same reason a lot of open-source software gets created -- because they want to. This is an obvious result of freedom: people can do what they want to, regardless of whether it is what anyone says "we" need.
In a free society, the motivation for individuals doing things is not that some authority thinks that society needs the outcome. Rather, it is that individuals choose to do things, for whatever obvious or inscrutable reasons they may have, using their own time, resources, and skills.
What you could ask, instead, is: "What motivates people to create more Linux distributions, or other free software that's similar to existing software?" Human action is often inscrutable indeed -- we often cannot even correctly state in retrospect the precise reasons we ourselves make choices. However, I suspect that several factors may enter into the decision to make new software to accomplish the same goals as existing software:
Put another way, it is usually only from a particular (often, biased) perspective that two pieces of software meet all of the same needs and desires. It would be a short-sighted person indeed who complained that GNU Mailman is duplicative of the efforts that went into the writing of Majordomo. After all, people's interest in pieces of software (and in writing and assembling software) is so often individual -- not aggregate or social -- and nobody but the person doing it can really know why.
K, I posted this on the last live-cd review topic, but the thread is pretty much dead, so I'm hoping for some response here..
-----
At the rist of being lynched, I've been using MS for a good long time, and only recently did I download the Knoppix live CD.
I tossed in the freshly minted boot CD, hit enter at the command prompt, and in very little time, was up and running on the KDE desktop. It was definitely an experience for me. The best part was probably the warm fuzzy feeling I got from knowing I wasn't running off windows. Now, I run a fairly decent desktop system; P4 2.4 GHz, 768 meg Ram, SBLive, and a GeForce4 MX 440 card. Reading thru the startup, the knoppix cd seemed to recognise everything without any trouble. When I got into the KDE desktop, however, my screen was locked at 640x480, and my video card was reading as nv. It didn't look like my 440 card was supported.
Now, to put things bluntly, other than some very basic shell commands used a few years ago, and some experience with pine and pico, I'm a linux n00b. Tyring to figure out how to install drivers, and get all the old programs up and running was a bit daunting.
Mostly, I just want to ask: Can I expect the same results from a full-install of a distro? or is this just a function of not being able to cram everything onto a CD? Would another live-cd give me better results?
Isn't Ark Linux the dstribution someone made solely because of Red Hat removing the KDE Credits from Red Hat 8.0? Isn't a distro based on a pissing contest a bad idea?
With live CDs, having highly-targeted Linux distros is not much different than having an application that you just happen to launch by booting from CD. A robust, 85%-defined-via-a-distro-builder app meta-distro would make creating targeted live CDs as easy as creating application installers. One could even picture a dual-purpose CD, designed to either install an app on an existing Linux or boot into Linux for people who are not Linux-ised yet. But, creating such a targeted live CD seems to be still in the land of people who are more likely to use Gentoo than, say, Mandrake or Fedora. If the innovation came off a common Morphix-like framework, then some percentage of that innovation will improve the framework, making it all the easier for kernel n00b's like me to create a live Linux CD.
The Busy Coder's Guide to Android Development
The point of free software is that you can make a choice. You aren't stuck by what anyone else thinks of a situation, you can do what you think is best.
Yes this will lead to what outsiders think of as wasted effort. But it is obviously worthwhile to the person who is expending it. People should be free to spend their time, money and energy on whatever they want.
A community of choice and freedom will not have a single orderly progression, but that is okay.
The poster's comments on ArkLinux (excepting the last sentence) are not his own - they're copied verbatim from the introduction to the article.
APT4RPM was developed (ported to RPM systems would be more accurate) by Conectiva about three years ago and was adopted officially on Conectiva Linux 6.0.
It's very mature by now, has a strong community (check the project page and the mailing list) and has a lot of cool features that are not (yet?) available on Debian systems (like LUA scriptable interface, apt-shell, meta-repositories, instalation of packages by filenames, etc.).
There's an article on LWN about it in particular which is worth reading for anyone who already knows it from Debian: "New features in APT-RPM".
--Ademar
Nice distro - once it hits 1.0, if an end-user comes to me asking for a distro recommendation and (s)he much prefers KDE over GNOME, I'd probably recommend Ark.
It's probably the only large (in size) distro that does not ship GNOME, on the other hand (it does ship the libraries) so I would not recommend it for people who like both desktops. Least of all those who prefer GNOME, if that's not self-evident :)
Michel
Fedora Project Contribut
n/t
Anonymous Coward is a known troll who goes into random discussions and accuses people of wild things (like being a troll) and tries to get them modded down.
Do not reward this behavior.
i read thru the article and still cant figure out why there appear to be three isos for this distro when only 1 is necessary and the third not even mentioned. anybody know what it does?
btw, the torrent should be moving along pretty well, im giving over 200k up
use your turn signal! you people act like it's divulging information to the enemy
one word. Debian.
Why put up with what others want in a distro, when you can decide yourself. I don't see why people are so hung up on RPM either.
Since when are our choices limited to Conectiva and Debian? Red Hat and it's user based spin off Fedora, still make up the majority of linux users.
Didn't Tina Turner sing "I'm your private distro?"
-Rich
I'm your private distro
A distro for money
I'll crash when you least want me to
I'm your private distro
A distro for money
And any old lawsuit will do
Sounds like SCO.
I'm not normally an irrational zealous dickhead, but I figure "When in Rome..."