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Maryland Electronic Voting Systems Found Vulnerable

snoitpo writes "My fine state (Maryland) has hired some people I can respect to hack into Diebold voting machines. The Washington Post (read it free for 2 weeks) has the details. From this story and the one on NPR, the state hired a company and set up a test voting precinct and had the group try whatever they could to break into the machines. Most of the attacks would probably be noticed by an even-half-awake poll staff, but some vulnerabilities were exposed. The net seems to be that you could really mess up individual machines, but the grail would be to get to the central collection servers and send a megavote to your favorite candidate. The last paragraph mentions problems that voting machines had in the last election in Virginia; it's interesting to note that those use wireless networking--my jaw has dropped onto my keyboard and I can't comment any further." Other readers sent in two stories in the Baltimore Sun (1, 2), and one in the NY Times.

94 of 417 comments (clear)

  1. Need paper receipts by glinden · · Score: 5, Insightful

    At a minimum, electronic voting machines need to print out a paper receipt. That would allow a recount and increase accountability in the system. Without a paper receipt, you may not even be able to determine that an attack has occurred.

    Bruce Schneier, author of Beyond Fear and the fantastic Applied Cryptography, has an old but good commentary on the some security issues of electronic voting machines in his Crypto-gram newsletter.

    1. Re:Need paper receipts by cgranade · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Paper trails are good and wonderful, but what is a paper receipt going to do? It is trivial to print X and tabulate Y. If the receipts are not collected and stored, then nothing is gained except for giving the voter a (false) sense of security. It would be impractical, and inaccurate to collect receipts after an election.

      --

      #define DRM chmod 000

    2. Re:Need paper receipts by grub · · Score: 2


      At a minimum, electronic voting machines need to print out a paper receipt.

      (NB: I'm in .CA) The electronic voting machines used here during our last civic election took our paper ballot, pancil-marked "X" beside our choice of candidates, and read it in. The ballot was a paper backup and any voter is welcome to stay around to watch a manual tabulation if need be. Tech has been my only job for ~20 years but I'd never trust it to decide on politicians. There is too great a chance of human error or subterfuge.

      --
      Trolling is a art,
    3. Re:Need paper receipts by LostCluster · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But let's make this clear: The printout goes in the ballot box and gets left at the polling place... voters should not have the option of taking a receipt home. Voters should not have any way of obtaining proof they voted a certain way, because that'll lead to kickback schemes and bosses requiring their employees proving they voted a certain way.

    4. Re:Need paper receipts by tekiegreg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well you can give a receipt and make it difficult to impossible to track the voting record, figure this: 1) Joe Schmoe votes electronically
      2) Voting machine spits out receipt with a MD5 hash key of his vote record, it's one way, it can never be decrypted again to determine how user voted. MD5 hash is also stored on server

      Worst Case Scenario: Votes are suspected to be tampered. All voters are asked to submit their receipt. MD5 hashes are compared to what is on the server. If MD5 hash isn't the same, Joe Schmoe is asked to vote again.

      This isn't 100% foolproof, but vote tampering and stuffing is tricky now, and as long as a MD5 has remains irreversible nobody will know Joe Schmoe voted. Thoughts?

      --
      ...in bed
    5. Re:Need paper receipts by jmv · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Voters should at least be able to what got printed. Otherwise a paper receipt is useless, since the voter says X and the machine prints Y.

    6. Re:Need paper receipts by LostCluster · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What good to the user is a receipt that proves nothing to the user, since he can't even decode his own hash. We don't let people take a stub of their paper ballot now...

      Use the computer to make a human and machine readable paper ballot, walk ballot over to box, leave it there... any complexities beyond that is just asking for trouble.

    7. Re:Need paper receipts by Asprin · · Score: 3, Insightful


      Of course, you could sidestep the whole issue if you do it my way. I propose that no counting be done by the polling machine, but by a separate sealed tabulator. Further, I propose that the mechanism for getting the ballots tabulated be optical character recognition scanning of the printed text of the ballot -- no barcodes, no punchholes, no encryption keys. This way the tabulator has no programming and does not need to be loaded with data prior to counting.

      --
      "Lawyers are for sucks."
      - Doug McKenzie
    8. Re:Need paper receipts by ChrisKnight · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Exactly.

      What the machines need is a paper roll printer, with a glass window above the print mechanism that allows the viewing of only that last line printed.

      When the user casts their vote, they are instructed to verify in the window that the vote they cast is the one that was printed. If not, get an attendant.

      Nobody can cach in their vote chit, and with batches of votes on individal rolls of paper it would be a lot easier to tabulate than counting paper ballots.

      -Chris

      --
      -- This sig is only a test. If this were a real sig it would say something witty. --
    9. Re:Need paper receipts by Dark+Paladin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Probably the best thing to do then is print out a barcode at the top with a breakdown of voting:

      President: John Adams
      Vice-President: Thomas Jefferson
      Treasurer: Etc

      This way, the user gets a visual confirmation, and it's crystal clear who voted for whom. They put that chit into the ballet box (which is locked). Chits are stored. In the event of a question of fraud, the old ballot chits can be pulled out and verified - no "hanging chads" here. Users feel good "knowing" what they voted for, and the system can still be paperless.

      I'd also want to see a 5% of all results double checked against what was reported, with random precincts checked to always keep things in line.

    10. Re:Need paper receipts by gnu-generation-one · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "figure this: 1) Joe Schmoe votes electronically
      2) Voting machine spits out receipt with a MD5 hash key of his vote record, it's one way, it can never be decrypted again to determine how user voted
      "

      Yeah, that'll be real hard to search for hash collisions on...

      if(md5("joe schmoe: CandidateA") == $STORED_MD5)
      print "Joe voted for candidate A"
      if(md5("joe schmoe: CandidateB") == $STORED_MD5)
      print "Joe voted for candidate B"

    11. Re:Need paper receipts by Jerf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      2) Voting machine spits out receipt with a MD5 hash key of his vote record, it's one way, it can never be decrypted again to determine how user voted. MD5 hash is also stored on server

      No, this is a good idea in concept but it won't work. There's generally only a very small set of possible voting outcomes, generally in the thousands, and that's brute-forcable in trivial time.

      You can't pad with a random number or any of the other tricks usually used to make MD5 useful even in these circumstances because then you make it useless as a checksum.

      Non-reversible algorithms only work when the potential inputs are much, much larger then the checksum itself. MD5, with its 128-bit size, is itself larger then most elections by a long shot.

      Consider the California recall election: A yes/no/abstain (recall the governer?), a selection from ~200 candidates (IIRC), and a handful of yes/no/abstains for proposals that rode on the election (again IIRC); that's only 200*3^(~5) possible voting outcomes, nor was that a terribly unusual ballot (just selecting the governor is equivalent information-wise to 5 yes/no/abstain choices).

      Yeah, you can pad it with the voter's name or other information but anybody who has that information can just add it in trivially.

      MD5, in this domain, is reversible because this domain is trivially reversible. (In other words, weakness of the domain, not MD5.)

      Again, good thought; I don't want to imply it's a bad idea. But it won't work.

    12. Re:Need paper receipts by TaKiNiTeZ · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I just imagined my grandparents coming home from an election, drooling about those funny letters and numbers on the slip of paper they got.
      Where would they put it?
      In a lucky case, it disappears behind a cupboard within minutes. In a less lucky case they switch slips with their neighbors because they mix them up with bingo charts.
      But probably they would just throw it away.
      So what would be the whole point of those printouts?

      IMHO you can not use automata to count votes until you can assure, no tampering with the machines is possible, at least not within a reasonable amount of time (a year? two?).
      But equally, no personnel involved in the whole process should be allowed until it is proven they will not tamper with anything they count.

      --
      awk. it's too sed i can't fork.
    13. Re:Need paper receipts by B3ryllium · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Uhm ...

      Independent of whether this is electronic-voting-from-home or show-up-at-the-polls-and-touch-a-screen-voting, there's a simple concept from the business world that can be adapted for this situation ...

      MERCHANT COPY / CUSTOMER COPY. :D

    14. Re:Need paper receipts by Windsurfer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Of course it isn't the whiz bang system that e-voting is but it's 10000 year track record says that it is ready for the mainstream :)

      That would be rather difficult, seeing as paper has only been around for about 2200 years

    15. Re:Need paper receipts by chanceH · · Score: 2, Interesting

      explain why you can't also take a hash of the name of the voter? and the time (down to the nano-second) and place (down to # of the voting booth)? and a vote counter for that machine? and then as much random padding as you need (which gets printed out with the receipt)?

      then all the hashes are posted on a website somewhere, so you can verify from home that you vote was counted.

    16. Re:Need paper receipts by laird · · Score: 2, Informative

      This is roughly how the system built by The Open Voting Consortium works. Their project, EVM2003, is available on SourceForge.

    17. Re:Need paper receipts by bilbobuggins · · Score: 3, Interesting
      But let's make this clear: The printout goes in the ballot box and gets left at the polling place... voters should not have the option of taking a receipt home. Voters should not have any way of obtaining proof they voted a certain way, because that'll lead to kickback schemes and bosses requiring their employees proving they voted a certain way.

      oh, the irony

      budget: $5 million
      time: 2+ years
      result: joe voter drops a paper slip in a box

    18. Re:Need paper receipts by canajin56 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      A basic requirement for a fair vote is that the voter does NOT receive a copy of their vote. Otherwise somebody threatening you / bribing you to vote a certain way has a way to confirm that you did like you were told.

      What is so hard and confusing about THIS method:
      People vote by checking off a box on a sheet of paper. People fold this paper over and hand it to a poll worker, and watch while this worker places the folded piece of paper in a locked strongbox. Poll worker has a clicker to count the number of votes placed in the box. When the polls are closed, a public counting occurs, where a third-party counts all of the votes up. If the number doesn't add up to the clicker number, they count again. Once their count has been confirmed, representatives of the various candidates are allowed to count it themselves, if they want, again under observation. If their number doesn't agree with the third-party number, they can dispute the count. Otherwise, the people present sign off that they witnessed the counting.

      Now, nobody can hack the system. Can a worker stuff the box? No, the box is plainly visible to public observers. This is VERY important. The press, and public watchdog groups need people at EACH voting station to make SURE the workers arn't on the take. Additionaly, bribing a vote counter or a poll worker, or any other sort of fraud, should be considered treason, and punished by life in prision. Again, there is no good way for the counters to disrupt the vote, because they are being watched. (Behind closed doors, democracy dies) Disputed boxes will be recounted elsewhere by somebody else, but still under public observation. To prevent rampant disputing, the campaign officials and watchdogs will face stiff fines if they dispute a vote, and the recount is not in their favour. Similarily, if the recount differs signifigantly from the original count, the official counters will face punishment. The end result is, it makes it quite hard to foul up a vote without being caught. And the punishments are dire enough to (hopefully) prevent most people from trying. There should also be more stations, so that no group is counting thousands and thousands of votes.

      This whole process is time consuming, and expensive (Small poll stations = lots of workers). But if bringing Democracy to other coutnries is worth hundreds of billions, isn't bringing it to yourself worth even 1? Also, I've never understood the need to have results NOW NOW NOW. Can't you wait a day? Is is so necessary to have the vote results within an hour? No doubt it would be nice, but is saving day of suspense worth potentially wrong results?

      --
      ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI
    19. Re:Need paper receipts by cens0r · · Score: 2, Funny

      they never said you got to keep the reciept. A good system would have you put it in the lock box.

      --
      Jack Valenti and Orrin Hatch will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.
    20. Re:Need paper receipts by AJWM · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're quite correct. I think the terminology is confusing. The logical thing is to deposit the paper receipt in a ballot box before leaving the polling place. The ballot boxes need only be opened and the receipts examined in the case of a challenge.

      Indeed, you don't want the voter to take it away with him as that provides a verification method for vote buying schemes. As it is now, you can bribe someone to go in and vote for your favorite candidate(s), but you have no guarantee that that's who they actually voted for.

      --
      -- Alastair
    21. Re:Need paper receipts by Jerf · · Score: 5, Interesting

      In order to compute an MD5 hash, you must include every last bit of data used to create the hash.

      In order for the voter to verify their vote, you must give them every last bit used to compute the hash.

      If we assume that we are not printing out the voter's vote, then we must give them everything else, plus we must give them exactly how the vote was encoded.

      Otherwise, neither they nor anybody else can every verify the has by re-computing it.

      Once somebody has all the data, plus precisely how the vote was encoded, it is trivial to take the hash of (all voter data + all possible votes) and determine which matches the hash. Thus, we are still giving the voter a piece of paper that confirms exactly how they voted, making them susceptible to all vote-selling and other such nasty scams.

      There is no way to give the voter the ability to verify their vote without also giving someone else the ability to reverse-engineer the vote in trivial time with an MD5 hash. If even one bit is kept from the voter, they can not verify. If all bits are given to the voter, then anyone can verify. There is no in-between.

      (Even if you ask the voter to provide some secret, it can be beaten out of them, and it can be trivially positively determined whether a given secret is the one in the hash; this is one of those cases where more security is bad; see how making cars harder to steal has increased carjackings, a far more dangerous crime.)

      There is no way out. You must not allow the voter to take any proof of their voting out of the booth; they must leave all evidence in the booth or the system breaks. That's why a paper receipt is desirable, but the system must keep it.

    22. Re:Need paper receipts by 'nother+poster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "To prevent rampant disputing, the campaign officials and watchdogs will face stiff fines if they dispute a vote, and the recount is not in their favour. Similarily, if the recount differs signifigantly from the original count, the official counters will face punishment."

      Huh? So if I feel that there may have been some form of fraud, but cannot prove it, and wish to have the results rechecked, I will face punitive retribution (i.e. a fine) for wishing to make sure that the system has not been tampered with? Cool, only the rich can dispute the elections.

      As to your second point, who faces punishment? The original counters? Is this done with no proof of where the possible fraud occured? The assumption is that since there is a discrepency the original counters are the criminals?

      "Hey Tony, I was dicking around down at the courthouse that was built in the 1930's and found a way to sneak into the official store room. Lets go stuff the ballot box for our precinct, call a recount, and get old man Thompson sent to jail. HAHAHAHAHAHAH"

  2. Wireless connections? by Dr+Caleb · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'd like to take this opportunity to coin the phrase "War Voting". :)

    --
    "History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme." Mark Twain
    1. Re:Wireless connections? by thelasttemptation · · Score: 5, Funny

      You voted for bush too eh?

  3. when will they ever learn by sinucus · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Just print out a freaking report of what was actually registered in the voting machines database. If it doesn't match up to what you input, get it fixed. Sheesh, how hard is that? Heat registered paper just like at the gas stations, it's almost free.

  4. No No No! by Bucko · · Score: 2, Informative

    Paper receipts open the system up to vote-selling. Not good, and not allowed!

    The voter might be able to see the paper (under glass), but that's about it.

    J

    1. Re:No No No! by rsborg · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Paper receipts open the system up to vote-selling. Not good, and not allowed!

      The voter might be able to see the paper (under glass), but that's about it.

      Thats the WHOLE POINT of paper receipts! How useful is a machine if you can't verify it's results? The big thing with paper reciepts is that the voter then has proof for himself that *he* voted in a particular way.. he can't walk away with that proof... that proof is left for verification purposes only. How hard is that to grok?

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
    2. Re:No No No! by LostCluster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What's wrong with the current system? The voter looks at the paper, and if they like it take it to the locked ballot box that's next to the exits, and if they don't they hand it to an offcial who stamps "VOID" on it and they get another blank to try again...

  5. why not use retinal scanners at each location? by Em+Emalb · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Screw wireless (wtf are they thinking) voting.

    If you want accountability, put in some form of VERY hard to break security and go with it.

    Voter apathy is going to occur whether people can vote online or not.

    This is a rehash of all the other Diebold crap down in Fla. Until it's secure, imo this is non-news.
    Is it because it's in a different state? Or because it's an attempt at accountability?

    --
    Sent from your iPad.
    1. Re:why not use retinal scanners at each location? by cgranade · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem is much less whether or not the terminal is secure, but rather, the problem is if you can trust the machine to accurately record your vote. Install retinal scanners all you want, and you'll be pretty sure that only those allowed to vote will. However, you'll have done nothing to assure that their votes are accurately represented.

      --

      #define DRM chmod 000

  6. Trying to invent solutions to non-problems... by LostCluster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Electronic counting is okay, but they need to be counting physical ballots, not bits. There needs to be a physical paper trail that leads back to clearly-marked ballots that indicate what the voters intended.

    The phone-in system is also a bit nonsensical. Ideally, the local counts should be published in each locality as quickly as possible, so that news organizations can do the math on their own, and any error introduced at any step in the way would quickly be noticed when numbers that are supposed to be the same don't check.

    Diebold seems to be in the business of selling solitions that are worse than the problems they claim to solve.

  7. It's not a panacea by aynrandfan · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The current hassles associated with electroninc voting have stuck me as yet another exmple of well-intentioned people using a technology as a panacea, then having it blow up in their faces.

    Electronic voting will not help if two candidates are neck and neck or the election becomes complicated in some other way. They also throw in a very significant variable: hackability.

    --

    ----

    "Ours was a free culture. It is becoming much less so."-Lawrence Lessig

    1. Re:It's not a panacea by richg74 · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Electronic voting doesn't introduce any functional capability as compared to paper ballots, except for (possibly) faster counting of the results. (Of course, if the result doesn't have to be accurate, I can write a program that will deliver the result even faster. ;-)

      The other, related issue is whether or not the security model of the voting system is comprehensible to the people who are charged with running the election. I think that, in the case of paper ballots, the model can be understood by any normally-intelligent person. (You only get one ballot paper, it has to be put in the box, no one can mess with the box, etc.)

      On the other hand, I would guess that there are fewer than 5 in 100 election officials (including those that select the systems) that actually grok the security model of electronic systems.

      The frequently-heard claim by election officials (e.g, here in Fairfax County VA) that the election was held and "it all worked out" is scary evidence of this.

  8. What is wrong with paper? by Srividya · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Paper voting works very well here, we are very wired but we use paper to vote and if a recount must be made we recount the paper. Why so much money on computer systems? Computer systems are very hard to secure. Paper has already been secured.

    1. Re:What is wrong with paper? by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 3, Interesting

      When people think of paper ballots, they think of hand counting. Electronically counted paper ballots are the best, most secure system I have heard of. If someone disputes the results, take the paper ballots and rescan them.

      A year and a half ago here in Georgia, Gov. Purdue and Sen. Chambliss both overcame 10 point poll deficits to win. There's no paper trail and no recount is possible.

      -B

  9. Argument for open source by Nakito · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Isn't this a perfect example of the benefits of open source? Yes, you can hire a team of hackers to attack a black box, but it's just an ad hoc approach, and tomorrow or next week or next year some other hacker will find another weakness that wasn't found in the first pass. Wouldn't you end up with a much more secure system if you could openly and systematically apply those same efforts to reviewing the code inside that black box?

  10. The Best Democracy Money Can Buy - by NixLuver · · Score: 4, Informative
    Read the book - even the first chapter - and you'll realize that a 'recount' isn't what we thought it was in 2000. No actual counting went on. We're just asking - no, begging - for a repeat of the constitutional rape of the electorate that happened in 2000.

    1. Re:The Best Democracy Money Can Buy - by workindev · · Score: 2, Informative

      Katherine Harris was tasked with disenfranchising a few thousand names off the list of voters because they were felons

      This sentence is 100% false. Katherine Harris had nothing to do with the voter felon scrub list. This list was initiated as a result of Florida Statute Section 98.0975, passed in 1997 by the state legislature, a year before Harris or Gov. Bush were elected. This list was created by ChoicePoint systems, who was hired by Ethel Baxtor (D), the Florida Director of Elections.

      And Katherine Harris and Jeb Bush had no legal authority to remove voters from the registration lists, because Florida Elections and election rolls (like almost every other state election) are supervised and maintained by the County election officials (who happen to be Democrat minorities in overwhelmingly Democratic minority counties). So even if Katherine Harris and Jeb Bush wanted to disenfranchise 100,000 minority voters, they had absolutely no way of doing it.

      Get your facts straight.

      Maybe you should be checking your facts.

    2. Re:The Best Democracy Money Can Buy - by NixLuver · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Attempting to change the electoral process in the middle of an election recount in an attempt to change the outcome in your favor is not endorced or permitted anywhere in the constitution.

      There was no attempt made to change the 'electoral process', only to cause it to adhere to its principles (i.e., the electoral college votes for a given state being cast for the candidate that got the most votes in that state).

      And from the settlement of that court action, the NAACP conceeds that:
      Plaintiffs have not alleged that Defendants acted in a purposefully discriminatory manner toward any group

      Surely you understand the difference between "I am not accusing you of intentional wrongdoing" and "I believe you did not engage in intentional wrongdoing"? This is standard language when one's case does not pivot on intent; if in fact the behavior violated the rights of black voters, it becomes irrelevant from a *constitutional* standpoint whether or not that violation was intentional. Thus the NAACP gains nothing by accusing someone of wilfully violating the Constitution, and the opposite party is more likely to concede an inadvertent violation than an intentional one.

      Actually, I have read this book, and I find it comical how many ignorant facts, blatant mistruths, logical fallicies, and downright partisan rhetoric people will believe from somebody who has a vested interest in discrediting the Bush presidency.

      It's simple to make unfounded assertions. Do you understand what "vested interest" means? You gave no information that suggested anything other than Mr. Palast belives that George Bush is a Bad Guy, not that there was any vested interest in that position for him. Explain to me what Mr. Palast's 'vested interest' is (like, for instance, Cheney's Vested Interest in the Iraq war is that he will profit from the assignment of Halliburton as the primary contractor - that is a 'vested interest') in this issue is? You haven't illustrated any of the 'ignorant facts' (what the hell is an ignorant fact, anyway/) 'blatant mistruths' (I'm assuming you mean 'untruths' or 'lies',right?), or logical fallacies you mention, and have no evidence I seethat Mr Palast engages in 'artisan rhetoric' other than the fact that he's not a GeeDubya supporter.

  11. Tamper tape by trickofperspective · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Great idea... cover the locks with tamper tape. So rather than rigging the election outright by going to the trouble and difficulty of changing the votes on the server, etc., criminals can do it by disqualifying voting machines by breaking the tape, disenfranchising thousands of voters at a time.

    (Can they cover the software issues with tamper tape, too? That might be helpful.)

    -Trick

    1. Re:Tamper tape by lynx_user_abroad · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Great idea... cover the locks with tamper tape. So rather than rigging the election outright by going to the trouble and difficulty of changing the votes on the server, etc., criminals can do it by disqualifying voting machines by breaking the tape, disenfranchising thousands of voters at a time.

      Exactly. This points-out the difference in thinking of the hacker's mind. An election official thinks adding complexity (tamper tape) to the system would raise the bar for mischief. Now, instead of just being armed with a lock pick (and the skill+opportunity to use it effectively), the assaliant must also be equipped to tamper with tamper evident tape without getting caught.

      In fact they are lowering the bar. The assaliant now needs nothing more than a fingernail to cause reasonable doubt and get all the votes from that machine thrown into question.

      How long does it take to train a set of disgruntled minority (in the sense of how their district usually votes) voters to break the tamper-evident seal?

      --

      The thing about things we don't know is we often don't know we don't know them.

    2. Re:Tamper tape by monstermagnet · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Indeed. Even as they mentioned this on NPR I commented to my wife "great, now operatives for one side can ruin the votes of people in districts that overwhelmingly vote for the 'wrong' guy"

      However, tamper tape need not invalidate the votes; it could merely mean the machine is subject to an extensive review of the logs. Increasing time/cost/unreliability, but not necessarily resulting in total disenfranchisement.

    3. Re:Tamper tape by lynx_user_abroad · · Score: 2, Insightful
      ...put tamper tape inside the locked door as well as outside.

      So we have a smart card protected by tamper tape protected by a locked access panel protected by more tamper tape. That makes it more difficult, right?

      Now imagine you are the election official and I point out that the outermost tamper tape on a certain machine is broke. Clearly you take the machine off-line, but do you a) leave it off-line through the end of the election (DOS vulnerability) or b) open the access panel to inspect the inside tape?

      If you open the panel (explain to me again why allowing the keys to this access door into the precinct isn't itself a vulnerability) and discover the inner tape intact, you have also a) introduced a situation where the access panel door was opened during an election (what was the point of having that locked door again if standard procedure allows it to be opened?) and b) only gained assurance that the attack vectors specifically protected against by the inner tamper tape are safe. If access to the inside of the access panel offers any new attack vectors which aren't protected by tamper tape, any one of these vectors could have allowed an election compromise.

      The key to security in this style is to ensure that every unit of added complexity you (as the defender) must add to increase security requires a order-of-magnitude (or more) increase in the amount of complexity I (as the attacker) have to deal with to defeat that security. If your actions fail that test, you're probably doing something counter-productive. It's a tall order, because the attacker always has the option of ignoring the vectors you've protected yourself most strongly against and choosing a less-protected target.

      Oh, and BTW, while you and half the untrained volunteer election officials were deciding what to do about that potentially compromised access panel, I walked over to the next machine in the row and scratched the tamper tape off the outer door of that one as well. "This one too..."

      Ain't I a stinker?

      --

      The thing about things we don't know is we often don't know we don't know them.

  12. Maryland Bill by pigpen_ · · Score: 5, Informative

    There is a bill before the Maryland State House that would require a voter verifiable paper trail on all electronic voting machines in the state of maryland. The bill also calls for a random sampling of the paper ballots to ensure that the electronic count has not been tampered with. House Bill 53 was just read into the ways and means committee two weeks ago but with the release of the reports I hope there it can gain more support and pass the house.

    --
    Zambozay! My brain must've been eatin' a sandwich!
    1. Re:Maryland Bill by pigpen_ · · Score: 5, Informative

      I forgot to mention a couple websites that are pushing for a voter verifiable paper trail in MD and nationwide: Campaign for Verifiable Voting in Maryland and Verified Voting - Campaign to Demand Verifiable Election Results

      --
      Zambozay! My brain must've been eatin' a sandwich!
  13. Why voting machines? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't understand why voting machines are being introduced in the first place. Is it just the stupid perception that "if it's automated, it must be better"? In fact, by introducing machines, you're just introducing a hell of a lot more problems, and possible failure points, as well as making the whole process more opaque.

    In the Canadian federal elections, IIRC, as well as the Ontario provincial elections, voting and counting is still done by hand. At every stage a paper record is created, so that if any irregularities are suspected, the whole process can be audited. I believe such an inquiry was undertaken in Quebec after some tricky vote counting in Quebec after the last referendum.

  14. So what? by thinkpol · · Score: 5, Funny

    What's going to happen? We'll elect someone who didn't get the most legitimate votes...?

    wait..

  15. Security of paper voting machines by Entropy_ajb · · Score: 3, Insightful

    " Removable memory cards inside the machine can be tampered with if a lock is picked or if one of thousands of keys is stolen." - From the Article

    If I could pick the lock or steal a key to the paper ballot box, I could tamper with the votes too.

    1. Re:Security of paper voting machines by Neophytus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      yes, but the boxes sit on a table with someone supervising them at all times

  16. No overloading terms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Sorry, it's taken. "War voting" already means casting a vote for W.

  17. Oh Canada! by addie · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My home and native land,
    We use a simple paper ballot,
    That all can understand.

  18. My favorite quote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
    "You are more secure buying a book from Amazon than you are uploading your results to a Diebold server," said Wertheimer, recommending several changes to increase security.

    Can't think of anything else to add to that comment.

  19. Pine cones. by bad+enema · · Score: 3, Funny

    "If you want to vote for Candidate A, you throw a pine cone in this box. If you want to vote for Candidate B you throw a birch branch in this box. After a while though, the boxes get pretty heavy and weigh a couple of kilometers."

  20. If I may reason... by rcastro0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I RTFA. But regardless of how poor this "AccuVote" implementation is, electronic voting can work -- and will prevail, if technophobic feelings are kept at bay. All it takes is some smarter dude to do the development.

    The reasoning is simple:

    ATMs exist.

    --
    Quem a paca cara compra, paca cara pagará.
    1. Re:If I may reason... by RobinH · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ATMs exist.

      Yes, and they give you a paper receipt. And the banks are audited by a third party. And they can count the money still left in the machine to see if it matches what the machine says it should have, and that money is paper cash.

      Why not do this: have the machine ask you all the questions, and print it out in human readable form with a 2D barcode of the same information. You check the sheet over and verify it's what you really wanted, or you put it in the handy-dandy shredder right beside it, and do it again. When you're satisfied with the result, fold it in half, take it to the ballot box and stuff it in there.

      Then, to count it, open the box, scan the 2D code on every piece of paper, and the results are tabulated. If any of the results look suspect, then you can still use the paper for a manual recount, using human eyes.

      Also, for every election, select 10% of the ballots at random and manually verify that the 2D barcode matches the human readable portion, just to audit the system. Obviously the auditing system has to be from a different vendor than the voting terminal.

      Just one Canadian's opinion. Myself, I'm happy with a pen and paper.

      --
      "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
    2. Re:If I may reason... by rhadamanthus · · Score: 2, Insightful
      "All it takes is some smarter dude to do the development."

      No, all it takes is less corruption between the vote-machine makers and the politicians currently in office.

      Take back the power, before it's totally out of your reach.

      --rhad

      --
      Slashdot needs to interview Natalie Portman.
  21. What they neglected to mention by dkleinsc · · Score: 4, Informative

    The NYTimes article mentioned in passing the work started Bev Harris, as described in her book ,and said that "Diebold stated that the code used by the researchers, which had been taken from a company Internet site and circulated online...". What actually happened is that supposedly private code, which no one should have been able to get to, was left in a wide open FTP server. And these are the guys we're supposed to trust with our elections. At this point I can't figure out whether Diebold's lack of security is due to malice or incompetance.

    --
    I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  22. August 2003 in Virginia by Bimo_Dude · · Score: 3, Interesting
    There was a very similar post about this in August on Slashdot
    It seems now that Maryland is finally catching on, too.
    • It seems to me that there are a few things that could be done to ensure proper and accurate elections
    • Allow exit polling by the press again
    • Have the voting machines print paper receipts
    • Do not let convicted felons be on the board or otherwise associated with the companies that sell / manage these machines. After all, they are not even allowed to vote themselves, so why should they be allowed to control the systems that count our votes?
    --
    "Teleporting Rodents with D-Cell Battery Displacement" theory -- IgnoramusMaximus (692000)
  23. In other news: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting
    There were recently a couple of good articles over at SecurityFocus:

    Internet voting system for overseas Americans is vulnerable, security experts say - and their comments extend to a scathing debunking of *all* internet voting methods.

    A slightly older, but very thorough, article by Scott Granneman entitled the Electronic Voting Debacle.

    Oh, and I can't leave without mentioning the essential Black Box Voting site...

    [posted as an AC as I don't want to whore the karma]

  24. Diebold knows security like I speak Klingon by akad0nric0 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I worked for a nameless financial institution. We had a certain number of Diebold Windows XP ATM's. 100% got infected with a virus that exploited a well-known vulnerability. We demanded Diebold agree to forfeit admin control of the systems or patch them within a short window of patch release.

    Their response: "We'll put firewall software on the machines."

    Since the contract was already signed we had no leverage and that ended up being the solution. Nice, eh?

    --
    akad0nric0

    This sentence no verb.
  25. What bothers me by morleron · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I heard the NPR story on yesterday's ATC and was struck by the reporter's failure to ask some hard questions. For instance, there was a statement by a Diebold spokesdrone to the effect that "we fix any security issues that we think could be a problem." There was no followup regarding earlier reports of a Diebold built-in backdoor to the systems "for maintainence purposes.' A back-door which, IIRC, required no password or user id to gain access to the server's databases.

    Also, there was no discussion of the debate between those of us that believe that the e-voting systems should be required to use Open Source software vs. folks at Diebold and other vendors, who foist off the "trust us, we know what we're doing" line on the public. There was no real discussion of the effect that questionable e-voting results could have on the American political system. There was also no mention of the fact that Diebold's president is involved with raising money for the G.W. Bush re-election campaign and has pledged, IIRC, "to do everything I can to deliver the vote to George Bush." All in all I'm afraid that NPR really dropped the ball on this particular issue.

    Just my $.02,
    Ron

    --
    Impeach Barack Obama for violating the Constitutional requirement to be a "natural born" citizen to hold the office of P
    1. Re:What bothers me by grondu · · Score: 3, Informative

      Send mail to atc@npr.org and express your concerns.

      --

      I'm the urban spaceman babe, but here comes the twist... I don't exist

    2. Re:What bothers me by stand · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Good point! All this talk about hackability of the system and paper receipts and back doors obscures what should be the basic necessary but insufficient condition for any electronic voting system. Let me lay it out:

      If the code isn't open and viewable to the public, I don't trust it...and neither should you.

      --
      Four fifths of all our troubles in this life would disappear if we would just sit down and keep still. -C. Coolidge
    3. Re:What bothers me by eric777 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      You must have turned in late.

      He led the discussion with the whole Diebold 'committed to raising $100,000 for GWB' thing.

      Actually, I think he should have led with the paper trail issue - as others have said before, the GWB fund-raising thing is a red herring that makes voting machine critics look like tin-foil hat-wearing nutcases.

      At the end of the day, the Diebold people are clearly incompetent, and the system is hugely flawed. Those facts are hard-to-dispute.

      The idea that large groups of Diebold staffers are involved in a massive right-wing conspiracy is significantly harder to prove, and fails the Occam's Razor test - why ascribe to malice what can easily be ascribed to incompetence?

      I agree that Diebold got off the NPR hook too easily on their security flaws...

  26. Other problems by Atryn · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Did this consultant organization test issues relating to interference with the process as well as alteration of the results? One of the issues in FL in 2000 was whether or not certain voter groups had their ability to reach the polls "interfered with" by police, etc.

    Suppose I know the tendency of a district and I would rather that districts results are lost. Examples of activity to interfere would include:
    1. Cutting Power
    2. Electromagnetic Interference (burst device wiping out memory cards)
    3. Knocking out wireless infrastructure (cell towers, radio repeaters, whatever they use)
    Some folks would say that we are overreacting and that all of these criminal activities have current-day equivalents. But without a paper-trail you only need to wipe one memory card remotely to kill hundreds of votes before they are sent to the server.
    --
    Come play Moral Decay!
  27. Perhaps you all should read our report. by PaulMaximne · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm one of the people who did this and you should take a look at the acutal report before you start ranting.

    --


    We witness not a fallen world, but falling every day - The Call.
    1. Re:Perhaps you all should read our report. by PaulMaximne · · Score: 2, Informative

      OOPS, forgot to preview. A link to the report.

      --


      We witness not a fallen world, but falling every day - The Call.
    2. Re:Perhaps you all should read our report. by VX1984rr3 · · Score: 2, Funny

      I think you misunderstand. This is Slashdot. Facts are not necessary nor generally desired.

  28. MyDoom says Hi by theolein · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Linda H. Lamone, the administrator of the Maryland State Board of elections, said that the group had produced "a very good report," and that the state would take its recommendations seriously.

    Still, she noted that tampering with voting equipment is a felony. "I'm not sure how many people would be willing to get a felony conviction and risk going to jail over an election," she said. Citing the problem of easily opened locks on the machines, she said an attempt to unlock a machine "would be very unlikely to succeed, because it would have to occur in a public place."


    This woman should be fired from her job. She basically states that because some act would be a crime that no one would do it!!!

    Did that stop Richard Nixon?
    Did that stop whoever blew valerie Plame's cover?
    Did that stop the authors of MyDoom from writing the virus?
    Did that stop all the people in the US who committed crimes last year?
    Did that stop Ken Lay and the fine folk at Enron?
    Did that stop Halliburton from overcharging the Army?

    What a fucking joke. It could have been a Microsoft security advisory for all the good it will do.

    My premontion: There will be massive irregularities in the 2004 elections and guess who will win again?

  29. Re:*gasp!* Voting machines vulnerable?!! by RigMonkey · · Score: 2, Informative

    Duh...

    We'll never have a valid e-voting system until the software is treated as a critical-systems type of application. I mean, it's not like the software is doing something like figuring the interest on a loan. The developers need to treat this software as seriously as they would the software in emergency medical equipment.

    And for bonus Karma, that quote is from The Simpsons:

    "Me fail English??? That's unpossible!"
    -Ralphie

    Another favorite by Ralphie:

    "And so the doctor said I wouldn't get as many nose bleeds if I just kept my finger outta there"

  30. Re:*gasp!* Voting machines vulnerable?!! by stratjakt · · Score: 2, Informative

    Sibling post is an idiot. It was Ralph Wiggum.

    --
    I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
  31. Internet not ready for something as big as this... by DroopyStonx · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Considering there's a vulnerability in almost anything (and just a matter of time before someone finds it), I think at *this* point in time it is a very bad idea to make something as important as VOTING something we can do online.

    The last thing we need is a botched up election with later claims that the system was found vulnerable, etc..

    It's handy, no doubt, but maybe we should wait a bit...

    --
    We have secretly replaced these Slashdot mods' sense of humor with a rusty nail. Let's see if they notice!!
  32. Why the rush? by Le+Marteau · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I really don't get it. Why are people so hard for getting the frickin' election results the night of the election? What is the rush? Why not do it the old fashioned way... paper ballots, counted by hand, by a team of old ladies. So we get the results a week after the fact. So what? Again, what is the big rush? I say, chill out, and do it by hand, with paper and pencil.

    One more thing. Where are these people from, who authorized computerized voting. Have these people never used a computer before? Have they never lost their work due to a system problem? I can only assume that they don't give a damn about election integrity, and that is telling.

    --
    Mod down people who tell people how to mod in their sigs
  33. My favorite quotes... by J.+Chrysostom · · Score: 2, Informative

    William A. Arbaugh, an assistant professor of computer science at the University of Maryland and a member of the Red Team exercise, said, "I can say with confidence that nobody looked at the system with an eye to security who understands security."

    Mr. Wertheimer said the application of security was inconsistent, with encryption applied in some places without the accompanying technology of authentication to ensure that the machines that are communicating with each other are the ones that are supposed to be communicating and that an interloper has not jumped in. "It's like washing your face and drying it with a dirty towel," he said.

  34. What's wrong with mechanical voting systems? by pz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Whenever I hear about the latest and greatest electronic voting scheme, it gives me pause to wonder who is behind this.

    Mechanical voting machines have proved effective and relatively reliable for many, many years. I've heard the claim that the company that once manufactured them has gone out of business and that spare parts are no longer available. I say, BUNK. Given the amount of money that will undoubtedly be spent on engineering incredibly vulnerable systems which will be obsolete in a few years as compared to the previous systems which worked fine for a few decades, it would be a trivial task to have new parts designed and produced for the older machines.

    Whose boondogle is the whole idea of electronic voting?

    --

    Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
  35. Mod me down if I'm too off-topic by galego · · Score: 2, Informative
    But here's a review done my Univ. of Maryland's HCIL group (Human Computer Interface Labs). They presented their review at a symposium and it wasn't all that great ... anyway here's a pdf if anyone's interested. Had some major interface issues according to the presentation.

    http://www.capc.umd.edu/rpts/MD_EVoteEval.pdf

    --

    Que Deus te de em dobro o que me desejas

    [May God give you double that which you wish for me]

  36. It looks like... by rickyjd19 · · Score: 3, Informative

    ...we will never have the perfect voting system. If these electronic voting systems prove to be worse than the infamous punch-card ballots (which is what people seem to be suggesting) then electronic voting may have defeated its purpose. Maybe we should stick to the kind of ballots we have where I live in Iowa: you mark the ballot with a marker, and it gets read by computer, much like standardized tests do. It's reasonably accurate and can be counted by hand if needed, and is not so prone to hacking. P.S. - sorry if I submitted an empty comment earlier - my mistake

  37. Re:Maybe that's what we need... by Tsiangkun · · Score: 2, Funny

    Remember to use a Mac when you hack the machines . . . it's the latest tip from the FBI. --Tsiangkun

  38. I haven't been concerned about outsiders... by praedor · · Score: 5, Interesting

    hacking into the voting computers. It's the insiders with an agenda that I am concerned about. The ONLY way to get around this is with a voter-verifiable paper trail AND taking the vote counting away from corporations that create the machines and putting the counting where it belongs: citizen groups.


    Diebold and ALL the other commercial vote machine vendors are heavy Republican donors and, particularly in the case of Diebold, run by individuals devoted to getting Republicans elected and Bush elected (I can't say "re-elected" as he didn't get elected in the first place). THESE criminals have the means and motive to taint the vote...in secret! They are in control of the machines and the vote tallies. They cannot be trusted, given how openly partisan they are.


    It is NOT the random outside hacker we need to worry about that much (sure, protect against it), it is the machine makers and vote counters themselves that have to be protected against. Ask yourself this: Why is it that EVERY vendor of voting machines are so adamantly opposed to any paper trail possibility? Why are they so strenous in their arguments against it? Because it would queer their ability to tamper with the vote tallies.


    Voter-verifiable paper trail. It's the only way to be sure.

    --
    In Bushworld, they struggle to keep church and state separate in Iraq as they increasingly merge the two in America.
  39. With these results... by zoloto · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I certianly don't feel safer about amazon.com
    "You are more secure buying a book from Amazon than you are uploading your results to a Diebold server," said Wertheimer, recommending several changes to increase security.


    I mean, we remember what happened a while back right? If I recall there were a number of security related risks regarding customer information... or did they release that information on a voluenteer basis?
  40. might do good. by supernova87a · · Score: 4, Interesting

    who knows? It might just take a result of "George Bush: 99.9%, xyz 33.5%, 105% of precincts reporting, 803 million registered voteres" for people to wake up and realize that there is a problem here.

  41. How to Steal an Election by John+Murdoch · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Would you like to steal an election? Here's a quick survey of how to do it. I'm absolutely serious: I've been involved in political campaigns for years, and have held elected public office. And one of the reasons I'm no longer actively involved in party politics (per se) is that I caught one of my committee people doing some of the shenanigans I mention below.

    First--don't waste your time trying to cheat inside the polling place.
    You would think the obvious place to steal votes would be in the voting booth, right? After all, bank robbers rob banks--so election crooks would gravitate toward polling places. Right?

    Wrong. The place to steal elections is in absentee ballots.

    Absentee ballots: the mother lode of vote fraud
    Let's suppose that you learn that you've been scheduled for a trip out of state that will keep you from voting. You can call your county courthouse and ask for an absentee ballot application. They'll send you a form, which you fill out and return, and then you'll get an absentee ballot in the mail. You fill out the ballot and send it back to the courthouse by the due date--congratulations! You have voted absentee, and your vote has made the nation stronger. In a perfect world, that's how absentee ballots are supposed to work.

    Over the past twenty or twenty-five years the absentee ballot process has, um, changed. In a blowout absentee ballots are meaningless--but in a closely-contested race a handful of absentee ballots can be the difference between a "moral" victory and the real thing. (As a college student I functioned as an "absentee ballot captain"--identifying college students in the Philadelphia area who lived in the 10th congressional district in Illinois. I got them registered to vote at home, and made sure they voted absentee. I put in scores of hours of work--and turned in something like a dozen votes. In 1978 we lost the election by 6 votes--in a special election in 1979 we won by something like 120.) As the value of absentee ballots has become more apparent, people have started to cheat. (The rules for absentee ballots, and the opportunity to cheat, really expanded dramatically with the "Motor Voter" bills that got jammed through state legislatures in the early 1990s.)

    How to steal absentee ballots
    The simplest way to steal absentee votes is to work your way through nursing homes. The ideal method is to have a dedicated party worker who is a resident of the nursing home--but you can also send in a "volunteer." Nursing homes love volunteers who come to visit--so it's easy to plant somebody. However you do it, your party worker announces that she (or he) wants to help everybody participate in the election. Nothing wrong with that, right? So she distributes voter registration cards (perhaps with your party already checked), and promises to make sure that all the cards get turned in to the courthouse. When election time rolls around, she points out that senior citizens can get absentee ballots without question, and without anything like a doctor's note. All you have to do is ask. So Helpful Sally signs up everybody for absentee ballots. And since the absentee ballot is a bit confusing, Helpful Sally helps everybody fill out their ballot. As a general rule, Helpful Sally is going to get in trouble if she tries to buffalo people into voting for her candidate for governor--but practically nobody knows the names and/or positions of candidates for judge, for district magistrate, for local races--even for state legislative positions. All Helpful Sally has to do is say, "if you don't know the candidates, just leave the ballot blank." Oh, how helpful Sally really is. And to be really helpful, Helpful Sally offers to save the voter the cost of the stamp: she'll take the ballot to the courthouse herself, so your vote won't get lost in the mail.

    Once the ballot is done, Helpful Sally can do two things. If the voter picked the wrong office, Helpful Sally can simply "lose" the ballot. Unless the senior citiz

  42. Maybe we should do this differently by RadioSilence · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Maybe instead of putting fully networked machines in front of the voter, we should look at this a different way:

    1) Start with each machine being configured to run stand-alone.
    2) The voter places their votes, and is issued a paper reciept containing who you voted for, and what booth you used (perhaps a machine readable only side to give to the attendant, and a human readable side that you keep, for privacy) with their entries encoded into a bar code of sorts, as well as being recorded locally.
    3) They bring the reciept to the person administrating the voting at that location, who takes their reciept and runs it though a reader which tabulates the votes for the whole voting session.

    In the end those results are tallied against the individual voting booths, and as well as having a paper trail to fall back on, and it prevents someone in the booth from being able to do any more damage than corrupt whatever was done on their machine. And if the attendant tries anything with his machine, the count between the different booths will also be thrown off, and it would be very difficult (never say impossible) to destroy reciepts for one specific person because of the encoding.

    Throw strong encryption and a minimal and hardened OS into the mix, and it might actually be reliable.

  43. democracy inaction by frankie · · Score: 3, Interesting
    As a Maryland resident, I've tried to do my part. I contacted my elected officials and warned them about Diebold. I sent another round of faxes and emails after we learned that Diebold planned to gouge us "out the yin-yang" if we wanted verified voting. Final results: a couple form letter replies amounting to diddly squat.

    The most frustrating part is that my county already had perfectly good voting machines: paper-based scantron-type forms where you mark the appropriate rectangle and a simple scanner tabulates the results. Effective, verifiable, well-understood, and relatively inexpensive. In other words, the complete opposite of what the state just bought for us.

    --
    Approve Approval Voting Now!
  44. Hacks--Not Hack(ers) by annielaurie · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As a longtime Maryland voter, in my observations this situation has far outstripped the technical problems with the Diebold systems. The problems have been well documented--from the issues in California, to testimony of various experts before our own state legislature, and now another group of experts. We've had secret e-mails exposed, we've had experts from Johns Hopkins (Maryland's academic Holy of Holies), and ample warnings from all manner of well qualified individuals. Now people from the NSA (Maryland's second governmental Holy of Holies, next after Social Security) have weighed in.

    What does all this tell us? Well, I think anybody with a modicum of sense can see that the Diebold system is badly flawed. The Baltimore Sun has spelled it out in words that even non-technical people can understand.

    What we have here is an elections board made up of political hacks, all trying to cover their individual and collective arses so they can continue to feed at the government trough. They made an ill-considered and ill-advised purchase of these machines, and they'll stop at nothing to excuse themselves and to see that we're forced to vote under the ridiculous circumstances they've imposed on us. Trying to make logical sense of what they say is an exercise in futility.

    Didn't somebody once say that the OSI model had an eighth layer--the political layer? Well, fellow Marylanders and assorted interested parties, that's where we're functioning now. The merits (and lack of merits) of the Diebold system are a moot point, and I fully expect to be voting on one in November.

    I have to echo a question asked by someone else: What is/was wrong with the voting machines we used for so many years?

    Anne

    --
    DUCT TAPE: The Election Supervisors' Secret Weapon
  45. Need a migration path by VX1984rr3 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    From the old software deployment methodology, why can we have the computer stations that work on the Operation (that childrens game) model. After you punch down your punch is counted in the computer and you still have your card. Spend a few years counting both and see how that works out. By then should be on version 3 or so and service pack 5.

  46. Good break-in; bad conclusion? by Flexagon · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Perhaps the hackers were respectable, finding the clearly serious flaws. But at least one decision maker still seems to have reached the wrong conclusions:

    It's apparently "impossible" to put some of the recommendations in place in time, but they're sticking with the system. How do they add a paper trail without patches of some kind, assuming they don't just make everyone vote twice?

    "I don't disagree with what they say -- they're the experts," Lamone said after the Senate hearing. But, she added, "I think it's a very good system."

    And how do they put "tamper tape" on a phone number whose answering system the consultant says is "easily" breakable and can't be patched in time?

    Their higher priority appears to be that the Diebold systems will fly in March, not that they will use a trustworthy system.

  47. No by volkris · · Score: 2, Interesting

    No, we DON'T need paper trails or receipts or anything like that. There is absolutely no sense in using a backup that is guaranteed to be wrong.

    No, there is NO problem with using a wireless network; if a vulnerablility is created just because it happens to be wireless then you have bigger problems to deal with.

    All that is needed is a good implementation of public key and a very small amount of thought as to where an individual vote needs to be guaranteed accurate.

    It's perfectly feasible to create an all electronic system that's perfectly accurate, nearly hackproof, massively verifyable, and almost instantly countable. It's a problem a high schooler could lay the foundation for.

    So why are we wasting our time with the trash presented so far? Because the states haven't been asking the providers to go through the extra trouble. Let them take the easy way out and of course they will.

    But get off this nonsense about paper trails, receipts, and outrage over wireless.

  48. Electronic selection, paper ballot by ucsckevin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The problem with paper voting wasn't the counting system, but the innacurate/non standardized methods of presenting the cadidates, and making people put a hole through a piece of paper paper. Instead, let voters select their candidates on screen, have the ballot be printed (maybe with a barcode!) and have them hand it in to the moderators. It solves the problem of clarity/standardization, and you're not doing electronic tabulation.

  49. NPR - Better link by eclectic4 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Electronic voting is ill-fated on many levels. If you have the time please, PLEASE listen to "The Annoying Gap Between Theory and Practice" audio found here. Just do a search for "The Annoying Gap Between Theory and Practice" in the search window in the left column. It fills many gaps as far as understanding the fundamental "problems" with e-voting, and it's quite an eye opener. Good luck.

    --

    "The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin
  50. Oregon voting by gblues · · Score: 2, Informative

    Actually, voters in Oregon are required to sign the envelope before they put it in the mail. While it's not foolproof, it's obvious if every ballot has been signed by the same person.

    Nathan

  51. what if... by Sebastopol · · Score: 2, Interesting

    i read many of the posts here about disrupting the process, or tampering with votes between submission and counting.

    my question is: suppose someone DOES manage to wipe out or tamper a bunch of votes, and the volunteers realize it. would the county actually admit they just lost 10,000, 20k, 30k votes by accident? there's no way you could sue the county, so all these folks would be denied their constitutional rights with no way for recourse.

    in the neon of agrajag:

    be afraid, be very afraid...

    --
    https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
  52. Well DUH! by tbond_trader · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Of course voting machines are vulnerable. They were designed by Diebold that way, so Bush can once again steal an election.

    With no audit, no paper trail, and no accountability, it'll be a cake walk. Of course if they get exposed, they say "We didn't know" and then put the decision into the hands of the Supreme Court of Kangaroos and you know how that story goes.