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The World of Virus Writers

No_Weak_Heart writes "Looking for a little weekend reading? You might try the cover story from this week's NY Times Magazine. It's titled The Virus Underground, and it takes a look at the world of malware scripters, virus writers and worm designers."

55 of 505 comments (clear)

  1. Idea for a virus by RoadkillBunny · · Score: 5, Funny

    Some one should write a virus that will allow us to read NY Times without a suscribtion.

    --
    Cheers,
    RoadkillBunny
    1. Re:Idea for a virus by thebatlab · · Score: 4, Informative

      Someone did. It masquerades around the web and is known as "Google" :)

      http://www.google.com/search?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww. ny times.com%2F2004%2F02%2F08%2Fmagazine%2F08WORMS.ht ml&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf- 8&oe=utf-8

      Now click the url it instructs you to.

    2. Re:Idea for a virus by tlhIngan · · Score: 4, Funny

      Actually, what we need is a virus that, in the email headers, adds:

      X-Idiot-Who-Sent-This: <real_email>

      (and variations thereof) to all the emails it sends. Fake the From: address, sure. But I'd like to know who the person is that I should LART for the 100,000 copies of MyDoom that I keep getting. Especially to addresses that I've given out or never even used.

    3. Re:Idea for a virus by tvh2k · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Actually, this was previously posted on /.:
      Random NYTimes.com Registration Generator

      You'll have to block referer or save the page locally, however, because NYT blocked all registrations originating from that domain.

    4. Re:Idea for a virus by devilspgd · · Score: 4, Funny

      This is /. -- You don't need to read the article.

      --
      Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day, but teach a man to phish...
    5. Re:Idea for a virus by ElliotLee · · Score: 4, Informative
      Copying and pasting the address in the parent post results in a broken search because a space got added between ht and ml.

      Here's a clickable link that does work.

      From there, click the link that says "try visiting that web page by clicking on the following link".

    6. Re:Idea for a virus by Insipid+Trunculance · · Score: 4, Informative

      I fail to understand why everybody waites for a subscription free link to NY times.Come on if we can register and login at Slashdot why cant we have nonsensical false name logins at NY times?

      --
      Wanted : A Signature.
    7. Re:Idea for a virus by MrWa · · Score: 4, Funny
      Someone did. It masquerades around the web and is known as "Google" :)

      http://www.google.com/search?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ny times.com%2F2004%2F02%2F08%2Fmagazine%2F08WORMS.ht ml&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf- 8&oe=utf-8

      But I'm at work using IE and typing that URL in is HARD...
  2. Sheesh by apoplectic · · Score: 4, Funny

    "The Virus Underground" sounds like a bad nightclub.

  3. Re:Why underground? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Du-uh -- everyone knows worms live underground !

  4. Losers by BWJones · · Score: 5, Insightful

    it takes a look at the world of malware scripters, virus writers and worm designers.

    I guess my initial reaction was fsck 'em. Fsck 'em all. However, it could be suggested that they have made corporations and governments aware of many intrinsic insecurities in certain popular operating systems which may have prevented some larger potential catastrophe. The problem for these guys, is that we will never know and they will continue to be reviled and hated as losers. (That is unless they are talented enough to score a job with Symantec, the NSA or some other organization dealing with comp. security.)

    --
    Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
    1. Re:Losers by Rand+Al'Thor · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That may be a side effect in very few cases, but for the most part I think it's safe to say there is no redeeming factor to any virus or its author.

    2. Re:Losers by Dukael_Mikakis · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's true that virus writers are malevalent and don't have pure intentions when hacking their scripts and all, but in a general sense, where would our security be without virus writers?

      If you consider computer security like the human immune system, then perhaps it may be seen that these people (while malicious) allow security to keep up with that hacks that can be done. If you kept a person in a bubble for twenty years and then promptly released him into the dirty, disease-ridden world he'd likely get sick and potentially die pretty quickly, as his body has no capacity to survive the world. However, with immunizations (i.e. intentional delivery of malicious agents in small doses, possibly on some schedule) and just general exposure to the germs in the world, most people have no problem surviving this world. Yes, MyDoom, and Trojans, and all the other viruses are more than nuisances and they cost people time, money, data, and other things, but these are in relatively small doses. If we had been in a bubble free of viruses for all this time, then whenever we're released into the "real world", anybody could take advantage of all these exploits (open sockets, DDoS, back doors, etc.) at once and perhaps bring the whole infrastructure down.

      It's the fact that virus writers are always developing viruses and releasing them that allows us to fix these problems individually, on a manageable time-scale. If they wanted to do some damage, maybe they should withhold all their viruses and unleash them all at once to cripple everything so much more.

    3. Re:Losers by nautical9 · · Score: 4, Interesting
      What confounds me is that there hasn't been a major virus with a real nasty payload, say a virus that spreads like MyDoom, but after sending itself out to all the email contacts found, it proceeds to nuke the drive by writing random junk through it all (preventing any way of recovering the data).

      All the major email-bourne worms we've seen to date have had very benign (IMO) payloads, typically a minor DDoS and/or backdoor. These have caused extra load on the Net, and could cause more spam or the harvesting of CC's, but their damage could be far, far worse.

      Of course, a lot of script-kiddies use these viruses as bragging-rights (I 0wn 6421 zombie machines), so it's perhaps against their interests to do true damage, but it won't be long until someone does. And then the typical media figure of $X billions just may be legit, as I suspect the people who get infected are the same ones who never backup their systems.

    4. Re:Losers by BWJones · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you consider computer security like the human immune system, then perhaps it may be seen that these people (while malicious) allow security to keep up with that hacks that can be done.

      If you make the biological systems analogy, you will also have to acknowledge that a diverse operating system ecosystem is critical to the health and well being of things, especially as the Internet becomes more widely available. We need Linux, IRIX, Solaris, Windows, OS X and embedded OS's to maintain the health of things.

      --
      Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
    5. Re:Losers by GoodNicsTken · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's where I think your completely wrong. I'm actually surprised more of the /. crowd doesn't agree with the following viewpoint:

      Software flaws exist PERIOD. They always have and always will. What would you rather have:

      1. A small group of 100 or so people (Govenrment, individuals, organized crime, etc) with the ability to log into your machine, do whatever they want to with it (Set up a kiddie porn ring, steal your identity, etc.)

      2. A virus that exploits the flaw, disrupts computer networks forcing people to patch the flaw. (Many still don't, as Code Red is alive and well)

      I'm all for #2. The flaws exist. Without viruses, then people would NOT patch there systems. When somebody relases a virus, they are saying, hey there's a problem here that needs immediate attention or just about anyone can take over your computer. These guys should be rewarded not punished. IMO they are performing a service letting everyone know of a flaw they discovered, and providing incentive to correct the flaw.

      As computers become a bigger part of our everyday life, they are trusted more and more. I would be a lot more concerned in a world with no viruses, and computers that are generally considered "Secure." That puts the power to ruin someones life in the hands of a few.

    6. Re:Losers by rjelks · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That sounds a lot like Bill Gates argument on why Windows is the most secure operating system available. Not that I agree with Bill about windows, but you make a pretty good point. I don't see how something can be very secure without some real-world testing. Now if I could just get my coworkers to stop opening up every attatchment in their inboxes. :) -

    7. Re:Losers by radish · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They did, back in the old days. I'm thinking of the bootsector viruses, and exe-infectors. These frequently had payloads to format c: on Davinci's birthday or some such thing. The thing is, now most "infections" aren't from true viruses, but trojans or worms. They also usually have a purpose, which is often backdooring a box to use it as a spamrelay or something. So kill the box, you kill the reason for writing the worm in the first place. In fact, not only that, but if you do anything which looks interesting, you increase your chances of getting discovered, and removed. The best worms get in, stay quiet, and attempt to spread. I like to think of them less as viruses and more as parasites - organisms which depend on their host for their own existence, and so have it in their best interest to preserve it not kill it.

      --

      ---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"

    8. Re:Losers by Josuah · · Score: 4, Funny

      If you make the biological systems analogy, you will also have to acknowledge that a diverse operating system ecosystem is critical to the health and well being of things, especially as the Internet becomes more widely available. We need Linux, IRIX, Solaris, Windows, OS X and embedded OS's to maintain the health of things.

      What we really need is for Linux, IRIX, Solaris, Windows, OS X, and embedded OS's to start fornicating with each other like crazy, "go forth and multiply", and let the best children survive, while leaving the weak to die. So, open up all your ports, send massive amounts of data between the systems, and fire your sysadmins.

  5. Reporters.. by grub · · Score: 5, Insightful


    Whenever I read of a new virus or hear of one on the radio, I wish they'd start to hammer home the fact that 99.99% (wild number I pulled from my arse) of these affect Windows machines only. The ignorant masses just assume that viruses and worms are a way of life, they don't know that it's a way of life only if you use a certain OS.

    --
    Trolling is a art,
    1. Re:Reporters.. by chef_raekwon · · Score: 5, Informative

      im a bit of a zealot myself - but in fairness to other OS', not particularly MS--if one was used as much as Windows is, I could be sure there would be many more viruses than currently exist, for say, Linux, currently.

      Not the extent that exist for Windows, however.

      --
      We're like rats, in some experiment! -- George Costanza
    2. Re:Reporters.. by metlin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're right, most of these are kids who have just learnt programming on Windows. I'll quote from the article --


      ''This guy,'' he proclaimed, ''is the best at Visual Basic.''

      In the virus underground, that's love. Visual Basic is a computer language popular among malware authors for its simplicity; Philet0ast3r has used it to create several of the two dozen viruses he's written.


      This is the problem - back when I was a kid, I used to mess around with things like TSRs and assembly code to create things that had virus like behaviour to scare the crap out of my teachers in school.

      These days, these kids just pick up an odd scripting language or two, or some easy language like VB and just do malicious code simply because its easy.

      This is not programming or 'crazy skills' - its sheer adoloscence being shown in another way.

      Instead, if they spent their time tinkering with the internals of a Linux Kernel or coding other cool stuff (like, Scene graphics programs, for instance!) it would be a much better use of their time and enthusiasm.

    3. Re:Reporters.. by Strudelkugel · · Score: 5, Interesting

      affect Windows machines only

      Well, MyDoom should be an eye-opener for you then. It proved (not that there should have been any doubt) that the problem of viruses is truly OS independent. Think about it: The virus shows up as a zip file which the user has to open. Then the user has to execute the payload. In other words, the social engineering was the key, not the OS. What's to prevent a Linux user running as *cough*Lindows*cough* root from being affected the same way? An Apple user? Nothing. Don't say they wouldn't be root, because a Windows box properly configured wouldn't have this problem, either. Now we are back to social engineering.

      Guess what, Linux has a reputation of being secure, so users will probably be given a false sense of security as well. Who knows, this might make home Linux desktops more vulnerable.

      --
      Imagine how much harder physics would be if electrons had feelings! -Feynman, maybe
    4. Re:Reporters.. by Kenja · · Score: 4, Informative
      "I have two Windows XP boxes which I use near continuously, and neither have ever had any sort of virus, trojan, worm, etc. One of those is completely without a firewall."

      Correction. They have no virus, trojan, worm, etc that you know of. And of course you would have no way of knowing because you dont run a firewall or antivirus. For all you know your sending out tons of email and infecting other systems. Do us all a favor, turn on the freakin firewall. It came free with the OS if your too cheap to buy a hardware solution.

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    5. Re:Reporters.. by npsimons · · Score: 4, Insightful
      if one was used as much as Windows is, I could be sure there would be many more viruses than currently exist, for say, Linux, currently.

      That, sir, is a fallacy. There is no hard evidence to support that claim, and there probably never will be. As a counterpoint, however, consider how many web servers run Linux and Apache versus how many run Windows and IIS. Then consider how many worms and security holes there are for those respective platforms.
  6. this helps prove... by tsunamifirestorm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    my theory that the most dangerous people are people who are bored.

    1. Re:this helps prove... by dekashizl · · Score: 4, Funny

      my theory that the most dangerous people are people who are bored.

      Yes, how else could the Slashdot effect be so devastating, if not for millions of bored nerds looking for something to click on?

  7. Virus writers... by NightWulf · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Are for the time being usually kids just looking for a little attention. They're the computer geek version of the guys who soup up cars, or join the varsity team. They believe that is the way for them to make their mark. The real worry is when you start having government funded virus writers. When someone from china or russia or the middle east are writing virus to shut down systems or create havok for the intent to kill, or bring down defenses for an invasion or terrorist act. Think about what could happen if there's a standoff in taiwan or such and the chinese figure out a way to infect the navy systems with a virus, leaving our fleet defenseless off chinese shores, etc.

  8. What happens when... by jfdawes · · Score: 5, Funny

    Like a lot of virus writers, this guy is a bored teenager ... 50 years ago he would have been out vandalising his school. In somewhere between 20 and 50 years he'll have access to nanotechnology.

    Format C: ? Overwrite every file? How about rebuild your washing machine so it suddenly appreciates the taste of "cat" and has the capability of acting out it's amorous feelings for your central heating.

  9. Article Text by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    The Virus Underground
    By CLIVE THOMPSON

    Published: February 8, 2004

    his is how easy it has become.

    Mario stubs out his cigarette and sits down at the desk in his bedroom. He pops into his laptop the CD of Iron Maiden's ''Number of the Beast,'' his latest favorite album. ''I really like it,'' he says. ''My girlfriend bought it for me.'' He gestures to the 15-year-old girl with straight dark hair lounging on his neatly made bed, and she throws back a shy smile. Mario, 16, is a secondary-school student in a small town in the foothills of southern Austria. (He didn't want me to use his last name.) His shiny shoulder-length hair covers half his face and his sleepy green eyes, making him look like a very young, languid Mick Jagger. On his wall he has an enormous poster of Anna Kournikova -- which, he admits sheepishly, his girlfriend is not thrilled about. Downstairs, his mother is cleaning up after dinner. She isn't thrilled these days, either. But what bothers her isn't Mario's poster. It's his hobby.

    When Mario is bored -- and out here in the countryside, surrounded by soaring snowcapped mountains and little else, he's bored a lot -- he likes to sit at his laptop and create computer viruses and worms. Online, he goes by the name Second Part to Hell, and he has written more than 150 examples of what computer experts call ''malware'': tiny programs that exist solely to self-replicate, infecting computers hooked up to the Internet. Sometimes these programs cause damage, and sometimes they don't. Mario says he prefers to create viruses that don't intentionally wreck data, because simple destruction is too easy. ''Anyone can rewrite a hard drive with one or two lines of code,'' he says. ''It makes no sense. It's really lame.'' Besides which, it's mean, he says, and he likes to be friendly.

    But still -- just to see if he could do it -- a year ago he created a rather dangerous tool: a program that autogenerates viruses. It's called a Batch Trojan Generator, and anyone can download it freely from Mario's Web site. With a few simple mouse clicks, you can use the tool to create your own malicious ''Trojan horse.'' Like its ancient namesake, a Trojan virus arrives in someone's e-mail looking like a gift, a JPEG picture or a video, for example, but actually bearing dangerous cargo.

    Mario starts up the tool to show me how it works. A little box appears on his laptop screen, politely asking me to name my Trojan. I call it the ''Clive'' virus. Then it asks me what I'd like the virus to do. Shall the Trojan Horse format drive C:? Yes, I click. Shall the Trojan Horse overwrite every file? Yes. It asks me if I'd like to have the virus activate the next time the computer is restarted, and I say yes again.

    Then it's done. The generator spits out the virus onto Mario's hard drive, a tiny 3k file. Mario's generator also displays a stern notice warning that spreading your creation is illegal. The generator, he says, is just for educational purposes, a way to help curious programmers learn how Trojans work.

    But of course I could ignore that advice. I could give this virus an enticing name, like ''britney--spears--wedding--clip.mpeg,'' to fool people into thinking it's a video. If I were to e-mail it to a victim, and if he clicked on it -- and didn't have up-to-date antivirus software, which many people don't -- then disaster would strike his computer. The virus would activate. It would quietly reach into the victim's Microsoft Windows operating system and insert new commands telling the computer to erase its own hard drive. The next time the victim started up his computer, the machine would find those new commands, assume they were part of the normal Windows operating system and guilelessly follow them. Poof: everything on his hard drive would vanish -- e-mail, pictures, documents, games.

    I've never contemplated writing a virus before. Even if I had, I wouldn't have known how to do it. But thanks to a teenager in Austria, it took me less than a minute to master the art.

    Mario drags the virus over to the trash bin on his computer's desktop and discards it. ''I don't think we should touch that,'' he says hastily.

    1. Re:Article Text by DR+SoB · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Thanks for posting the full article! So it's a BATCH FILE generator they are getting worked up about? LOL! Try running a search for "Virus Creation Laboratories" or "VCL", and you will see a tool that has been around since the EARLY 1990's that does a MUCH better job then a batch file creator. You can actually pick from a variety of languages and it will auto-generate the code. (is it really good to post this stuff on /. anyways? I shudder thinking of how many script kiddies are probably reading this!). A batch file Trojan, btw, is NOT a computer virus.

      --
      Mod +5 Drunk
  10. Best Quote by JohnGrahamCumming · · Score: 5, Funny

    (Philet0ast3r is an online handle; he didn't want me to use his name.)

    Really? I mean I could have sworn that Philet0ast3r was a real name. Are you sure he isn't the son of the l33t3st parents in Europe: C4ptainKaos and S3xyH3xy?

    John.

  11. It's not underground... by Dave21212 · · Score: 5, Interesting


    I mean, seriously, once it hits the NYT magazine, it's not so much an underground item. I'm sure the article is interesting but it's the nature of underground "sports" that you can never really know exactly who and what is going on.

    One of my favorite phrases is, "There are no Famous Hackers" meaning simply, that the famous "super-genuius-crackers" in the news who get caught aren't really all that smart are they ?

    (I read it anyway, surprised to hear that one of my favorite bands is still popular ;)

    --
    "Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech."--Benjamin Franklin
  12. It goes both sides by Geoffd1 · · Score: 5, Informative

    I won't say where or whom, but there are some virus writers that work for major software corporations - not for writing AV software, but rather to put out viruses to punish software pirates. If Joe Blow stops worrying about viruses, after all, there's going to be a lot more 'liberated' software floating around.

  13. Recommended Reading by nil5 · · Score: 4, Funny

    I would also recommend the title by the same author, "The Troll Underground", which highlights the life of the Slashdot troll

  14. indeed by mix_master_mike · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here's the kiddies website: http://www.geocities.com/spth666/main.htm

    --

    mix_master_mike
    vafrous

  15. Umnm by stratjakt · · Score: 5, Funny

    Then it asks me what I'd like the virus to do. Shall the Trojan Horse format drive C:? Yes, I click. Shall the Trojan Horse overwrite every file? Yes. It asks me if I'd like to have the virus activate the next time the computer is restarted, and I say yes again.

    Umm, once you answer yes to the first question, are the rest not redundant?

    --
    I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
  16. Master? by sperling · · Score: 5, Insightful
    But thanks to a teenager in Austria, it took me less than a minute to master the art.

    The author's obviously as clueless as any nontechie trying to explain or master anything technical. Such a trojan creator could be created in an hour by any competent programmer. The existing virus underground would fall over laughing if anyone dared claiming knowledge or skill after using or creating this tool.

    --
    The next great MMORPG.
  17. This freak... by callipygian-showsyst · · Score: 4, Funny

    This kid would make a great poster boy for birth control.

  18. Metamorphic Viruses by robyn217 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    What scares me most are metamorphic viruses -- a virus that modifies itself each time it infects a new host always attempting to avoid maintaining a constant signature. The modifications may take any or all of the following forms:
    1. Modification of the encryption/decryption algorithm (including multiple layers of encryption) - the decryption algorithm changes from infection-to-infection by basing itself on values that change from computer-to-computer (examples: size of HOSTS file, current time in milliseconds, etc.)
    2. Insertion of "junk code" into virus body or decryptor body - This is a common strategy by polymorphic viruses. It's usually accomplished by a "junk code engine" which has the ability to generate arbitrary amounts of meaningless blocks of code
      1. Noop or meaningless loops added to body of virus
      2. Entry-Point Obscuring (EPO) junk code - this is a special kind of "junk code" that specifically tries to hide the entry-point of the virus by insert loads of junk code at the beginning of an infected file.
      3. Code block permutations - random shifts of code blocks, sequential order is maintained by JMP and CALL commands.
      4. Register/Stack Variations - Use of varying registers, or even the ability to vary between register usage and storing data on the stack.

    (Older Examples: Mistfall Engine, ZMist virus.)

    When we start seeing more of these, AV companies will have a hard time keeping up.

    1. Re:Metamorphic Viruses by Vellmont · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Typical journalist with a little bit of knowledge gone too far. (If you truly do work for PC Magazine).

      Polymorphic/Metamorphic viruses have been around for 10 years at least, and the dumb journalists were just as scared then. I'm still waiting for the dire predictions to come true "when we start seeing more of these". As others have pointed out there's always part of the code that you can't mask, so there's always something to identify the virus with. I'm sure it takes a bit more work to identify the viruses, but the sky hasn't fallen yet.

      You should know better if your bio is true, being a grad student of computer science.. but then again grad student quality has dipped pretty low in recent years in CSCI. There's also the journalist taint factor to consider. I'm guessing the magazines/newspapers/TV networks must put lead in the watercooler.

      --
      AccountKiller
  19. Best Quote by glpierce · · Score: 4, Funny

    "''This is a revenge worm,'' he explained -- for ''not hiring me, and hiring some loser that is not even half the programmer I am.''"

    Perhaps someone should tell him that personality counts.

    --
    G
  20. Really...how? where? by msimm · · Score: 4, Informative

    I've always been surprised that I have *never* found a virus or a backdoor in a crack or a keygen I downloaded off one of those sites. If there someone their trying to punish isn't it more likely freeware users? Anyone remember Whack-a-Mole?

    --
    Quack, quack.
  21. All been said before by lambent · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I managed to read the first of 10(?!) pages before I decided it was just another alarmist (altho slitely journalistically poetic) piece of trash.

    They're trojans, not viruses. I haven't seen a respectable virus in like 5 years. Viruses are self replicating. Trojans require lusers to activate. (britney--spears--wedding--clip.mpeg, indeed). What pisses me off is this reporter's beliefe that all this terminology is synonymous (virus, trojan, worm).

    After reading the next few pages, i was surprised that the author bothered to extrapolate on the terminology "script-kiddie". (Nice job, Clive) But then he goes on about dreadlocks being the hairstyle of choice .... buh.

    After that it degenerates into political commentary.

    What the hell ever happened to ASM viruses? What happened to TINY?

    My favourite quote: "This guy is the best at Visual Basic". That's not a compliment, dude. That's like being the best at tying your shoelace.

  22. The real question is.... by FrancisR · · Score: 4, Funny

    Why is "Second Part to Hell" naked in the picture in the article?

  23. I hate the press... by Awptimus+Prime · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Looking for a little weekend reading? You might try the cover story from this week's NY Times Magazine. It's titled The Virus Underground, and it takes a look at the world of malware scripters, virus writers and worm designers."

    It's not a "world". It's something someone does when they sit down at a desk. I really wish the things some geeks do would quit being portrayed with such silly words.

    Over-dramatized, to portray an image that is very rarely accurate. It's, most often, some boring person with a bone to pick with the system or a company. Yeah, so they used code instead of throwing a brick through a window. That doesn't make them any more interesting than a teenager bashing a mailbox.

  24. Hacking in the 2nd Degree by FreshFunk510 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The method by which the virus is delivered is interesting. Quote:

    "These days, many elite writers do not spread their works at all. Instead, they ''publish'' them, posting their code on Web sites, often with detailed descriptions of how the program works."

    And, while there exists this "loophole" now, I find this disturbing. Now don't get me wrong. I grew up with Sneakers and I've always been a proponent of computer education and making the security flaws known.

    However, at some point if you're leaving material (whether tangible or electronic) out in public whose main purpose is crime and destruction I do think those people should be liable. I'll call it "hacking, in the 2nd degree" or "involuntary hacking".

    Let's take guns for example. Let's say a gun seller illegally sold guns to 12 year old children and also sold them bullets. Now let's say that the kids accidently shot each other up. Shouldn't the gun seller be liable? Maybe not liable for first-degree murder, but maybe second degree.

    I think that if the hackers want to educate others should perhaps do it in a more educational, and in a way that doesn't make it easy for script kids to copy and paste. Perhaps they can put out white papers with snipets of code... but, for the love of God, don't give the programs away. By doing that you have only yourself to blame with the script kiddies start spreading viruses like there's no tomorrow.

    To tell yourself that you're completely innocent would be denial.

    --


    "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
  25. The "Scene"? by officepotato · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have to wonder, when reading articles like this, how closely does the "scene" the article's author has discovered relate to the larger population in general. I've read a few articles that seem to be essentially interviews of some random, anonymous, highschooler, that supposedly represents the general population of computer-savvy evildoers.

    Are there actual, functioning, hacker groups, of a scale larger than Joe and his friends? It seems that the social attitude that accompanies black-hats (at least from the article that I'm questioning) doesn't lend itself to large organizations or control structures.

    On the other hand, it is kinda cool to imagine that there's a huge organized computer-crime secretly flourishing across the country. You could make a movie about that sorta thing, maybe call it "Hackers". Oh, wait...

  26. Thank you NYT by SoSueMe · · Score: 5, Funny

    A tall blond friend in a jacket festooned with anti-Nike logos put his arm around Philet0ast3r and beamed.
    ''This guy,'' he proclaimed, ''is the best at Visual Basic.''


    That's the first time the New York Times made beer come out of my nose!

  27. Weekend?? by belgar · · Score: 5, Funny

    Looking for a little weekend reading?

    Why waste my weekend, when I can get paid to read it now?

    --
    What does it mean to wake out of a dream
    and be wearing someone else's shorts?
    BNL, Born on a Pirate Ship (1998)
  28. New viruses and virus writers by zeekiorage · · Score: 4, Interesting

    These days I think the virus writers are just people who assemble a virus by collecting scripts and code from the Internet. Also the viruses they come up with do very little or no actual damage to the host system, instead they just "Propagate". If you are infected, delete a few files, remove a couple of registry entries and thats it. It has been a long time since I saw a virus with some real payload.

    Virus writers used to be much more creative back in the DOS days. If you are somewhat older you might remember Stoned, Die-Hard, Natas, One-half, etc. Each had its nasty little payload, stealth techniques and difficult to disinfect.

  29. It'll keep happening... by Mandomania · · Score: 4, Funny

    Until someone loses some real big money because of a virus or trojan.

    Yeah, yeah, there are "estimated" costs of every virus that comes out. And they're not small potatoes.

    But just wait until a virus comes out that silently infects machines, travels slowly enough to be barely noticed and only does one thing: randomly change values in an Excel spreadsheet. Or randomly delete one column from a randomly picked sheet.

    It'll be Armageddon: dogs and cats living together, Detroit winning the World Series AND the Super Bowl, etc.

    --
    Mando

  30. Naive by hackrobat · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The Slammer worm would find an unprotected SQL server, then would fire bursts of information at it, flooding the server's data ''buffer,'' like a cup filled to the brim with water. Once its buffer was full, the server could be tricked into sending out thousands of new copies of the worm to other servers. Normally, a server should not allow an outside agent to control it that way, but Microsoft had neglected to defend against such an attack. [emphasis added]

    It's funny. Which software company will deliberately, knowingly leave out holes in its software? "Microsoft had neglected..." Look, every program, small and big, has bugs. When you're talking of one of the leading database products in the market, you're talking of a very complex piece of software that's bound to have holes here and there. That statement is naive.

    Even Microsoft admits that there are flaws the company doesn't yet know about.

    Really? Which company knows of all the flaws in its software?

  31. Re:Enlighten me on JPEG trojans, please... by Spaceman40 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'm pretty sure, from the way others have posted on this article, and from the tech skills of the reporter, that it was a double-extension trojan, i.e. "file.jpg" was actually "file.jpg.bat" or whatever.

    Although this is most likely the virus that is created by this program, it is also possible to write a program thus that pretends to be a JPEG, with the way Windows handles extensions.

    --
    I [may] disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
  32. Re:Enlighten me on JPEG trojans, please... by sryx · · Score: 5, Informative

    Windows (or any operating system) needs more than an extension to execute a file. In order for a program to self execute it needs it needs to be compiled for your operating environment. If you rename Something.exe to Something.jpg Windows will first look at the extension then send your jpg file to the associated viewer to be interpreted as jpg data (which it is not, and thus cause the jpg viewer to produce an error (if it is well written), or crash (if it is not). Now if you take a jpg file and rename it to an exe and double click on it. Windows will assume that the program is executable, and it will load the boot header (collection of bytes at the start of any executable that is produced when the program is compiled) and grant all requests that the boot header asks for (things like memory, address space, etc). If this process fails in any way (like, say, the boot header is complete garbage because it's really jpg data) then the operating system (if it is good) will produce an error, or (if it is bad) crash. So JPG's cannot double as executables nor the other way around. BUT...
    It is possible that embedded in the meta data of the JPG file (usually used for embedding the date the file was created and the camera used to take it) is some compiled machine code (it would have to be small and simple otherwise the size of the JPG file would disproportionate to the actual image) and IF the JPG viewer that some unlucky user had, contained some buffer overflow error, then it might be possible to load a simple program into RAM, then by virtue of the buffer overflow get it to execute and thus enabling a larger more complex program to run.
    However this error would only exist in that specific version of that specific software, so it's ability to spread would be limited. The danger is if the program that interprets that JPG file is system wide or part of Windows standard suite of applications. Then your audience is huge. This is what makes Windows such a dangerous platform for script viruses. Because they have chosen to make their IE engine the central rendering engine of all of their applications (and they have made it easy and powerful enough to entice just about every other application developer to use it as well). Further more they have given their IE engine so many abilities, like the ability to arbitrarily execute machine code (this is how by visiting Apple.com you can install QuickTime, because the web site can download a program on your computer and execute itself, true you need to approve it, but once you say yes every subsequent visit is automatic, they REALLY need to add a "Never trust This source" checkbox) This means if there is a single flaw in the IE engine then that flaw is exploitable across every windows workstation and every application that uses IE as a rendering engine. Now why Mozilla doesn't make an ActiveX Gekko engine with the same function names as the IE ActiveX module so users have a choice which rendering engine they want, is a mystery to me yeah it would be hard, but it's not like Microsoft could pull the rug out from under them, Microsoft is very invested in their API, any change they made to it would break all the 3rd party apps.

    -Jason