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Cingular Wins bid for AT&T Wireless

Posted by CmdrTaco on from the game-of-consolidation dept.

Newer Guy writes "Cingular has won the bidding war for AT&T Wireless with an offer of $15 a share, or about $40.5 billion." This means Vodafone is out, and the number of competitors for wireless devices in the US is down by one.

97 of 359 comments (clear)

  1. It also means... by negacao · · Score: 4, Funny

    that I'm canceling my AT&T wireless phone as of today.

    1. Re:It also means... by badfrog · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Damn, I'm stuck with my current contract for another 3 months. I knew I shouldn't have upgraded my phone last year!

    2. Re:It also means... by btlzu2 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Do you have TMobile service where you're at? I'm VERY happy with their service and they're NOT Verizon or Cingular.

      --
      Zed's dead baby. Zed's dead.
    3. Re:It also means... by bhtooefr · · Score: 2, Informative

      We cancelled ours already, without knowing. We were screwed by AT&T's coverage maps being EXTREMELY inaccurate and their salespeople lying, but we got out in time to switch to Sprint.

    4. Re:It also means... by Atryn · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm biased as I work for Nextel, but we are growing rapidly nationwide. I travel a lot and very rarely have any issues. Obviously all my coworkers are on Nextel, but also my friends and family have all converted to Nextel after WLNP hit. Now we all use the radio nationwide for unlimited voice communications. On the cell side, Nextel is well known for its Free Incoming plans, which offer unlimited incoming cellular. For very heavy users, we even have a completely unlimited plan (unlimited everything)...

      Like I said, I'm biased, but I am being honest. Hope it helps.

      --
      Come play Moral Decay!
  2. Even if Vodafone had won the bid... by foxtrot · · Score: 5, Informative

    the number of competitors would still be reduced by one. Vodafone is a major player in Verizon Wireless.

    1. Re:Even if Vodafone had won the bid... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Incorrect.

      Had Vodaphone won, they would have had to divest in Verizon. Thus, Verizon loses Vodaphone, but AT+T stays as their own company.

  3. Another one bites the dust by ObviousGuy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Less carriers means less competition means higher prices.

    In the end, it's the consumers who will lose out with this consolidation of mobile providers.

    --
    I have been pwned because my /. password was too easy to guess.
    1. Re:Another one bites the dust by leerpm · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not always. Sometimes when a weaker competitor leaves the market, it makes the existing competitor's stronger, and sometimes you get aggressive price wards. But most of the time it does mean higher prices. We'll just have to wait and see how this one pans out.

    2. Re:Another one bites the dust by Shivaji+Maharaj · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Not in the US. If you look at the coverage maps of each provider you will understand the benefits of this deal. A combined map of Cingular and AT & T will provide a larger coverage area for all (new) cingular customers.

      Also, with the new Cingular Nation plan - you roam all the available GSM network through out the US with 0 ( zero ) roaming charges. And not to mention the choice of handsets I get. I think this deal will benefit the customer more than it harms.

      --
      We do not have a history of profitable operations. Our future SCOsource licensing revenue is uncertain.
    3. Re:Another one bites the dust by garcia · · Score: 3, Interesting

      this would certainly be nice... On a trip to IL from MN in August I found that the roaming charges were just absolutely astronomical.

      Perhaps they will also fix the horrible AT&T CSR attitudes and their insistance on hanging up on you when they don't feel like helping.

      Or, maybe not.

    4. Re:Another one bites the dust by macguys · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually the model which would benefit consumers the most would be to have one technology (can you say GSM?), one set of towers, and multiple phone companies providing similar services over the same infrastructure at whatever price they can get away with charging.

      This isn't much different than the way the copper/fiber phone network runs now under the MFJ. Of course, from my perspective, the government should own the network but let the phone companies provide the service.

      Next project: federalizing the railroads.

      My other sig is a non-ascii symbol.

      --
      wherever I go, there I am.
    5. Re:Another one bites the dust by butt-rock+camaro · · Score: 5, Informative

      "AT&T's network is CDMA. Current AT&T phones won't work on Cingular networks, and vica versa. They wouldn't improve their coverage at all, instead they'll wind up slowly migrating all of their phones to one network, selling off the other set in the process."

      I'm curious as to what market you're referring to? In western Washington state, AT&T is selling TDMA and GSM phones (I just bought a TDMA-version Motorola v60). They're referring to GSM equipment as "next-generation network" capable, so it appears that they're trying to migrate to GSM. The carriers in this area use the following technologies:

      • AT&T Wireless: GSM, TDMA, and analog (AMPS).
      • Cingular: GSM
      • T-Mobile: GSM
      • SprintPCS: CDMA
      • Verizon: CDMA
      • Virgin Mobile: CDMA (actually uses Sprint's network)
      • Qwest: unknown (they probably don't know either!)
    6. Re:Another one bites the dust by jdreed1024 · · Score: 2, Informative
      Less carriers means less competition means higher prices.

      In the end, it's the consumers who will lose out with this consolidation of mobile providers.

      Not necessarily. Around here (south east new england) AT&T wireless sucks. Their service is crappy, they have more dead spots, and they charge more and give you less. Of the 5 people I know who switched to them, 4 switched back to someone else after 3 months. Also, I'm a cingular customer. Currently, I'm on one of the old Cingular Nation plans (no roaming fees, regardless of whose network you'reon). They don't offer that anymore, so eventually, once my phone dies, I'll have to switch to another plan. If cingular buys AT&T Wireless, their network will gain more coverage, and it'll cut down on roaming fees for their existing customers.

      Alternatively, one could argue that indeed less carriers means higher prices and less service. And we'll end up back with a monopoly where we started. And the federal government will break it up again. Lather, rinse repeat. Seriously, look at what happened after the AT&T breakup - they divided into all the Baby Bells - how many are left? Precious few. These are just the ones I can think of off the top of my hat that are gone as well as some defucnt wireless providers:

      • New England Telephone
      • New York Telephone
      • Illinois Bell
      • NYNEX
      • Bell Atlantic
      • MetroMobile
      • Cellular One
      • US West
      • Pacific Bell
      • Ameritech
      • Southwestern Bell

      Watch how long it takes before we're right back with "The Phone Company"(TM)

      --
      There is no sig, there is only Zuul.
    7. Re:Another one bites the dust by RevMike · · Score: 2, Informative

      AT&T's network is CDMA. Current AT&T phones won't work on Cingular networks, and vica versa. They wouldn't improve their coverage at all, instead they'll wind up slowly migrating all of their phones to one network, selling off the other set in the process.

      Anyhow, I agree about this eventually benefitting customers. There are too many providers in the US with too many distinct formats, too many "regionalized" systems (in fact, AT&T didn't work in upstate new york at all until about two months ago), This makes it harder to have true choice in providers like in Japan or Europe. I didn't want to go Verizon, but I had to...the calling area is just so much better than with any of the others. Better to slowly build a universal network on a single standard, chip away at the others until they "Betamax" (since none of them is necessarily "better" than the others, the choice will be somewhat arbitrary) and get everybody on the same network with the same towers. Then it'll also be easier for start-ups to penetrate the market.

      I've been an AT&T customer for about 5 years. I've been generally satisfied. There are gaps in the coverage in my area (metro NYC), but the best local competitor (Verizon) has an equal amount of gaps, just in different areas. Nothing beats actually trying the phone in the areas that you intend to use it.

      AT&T traditionally runs a TDMA system. Verizon, Sprint, and MCI run CDMA systems. TDMA, however, has no future. AT&T has been transitioning to GSM for several years. It will probably require several more years before the transition is complete.

      The costs of building out a cellular system are very high. I've seen reference that it costs a provider roughly $1,200 per customer to build the system. Obviously, too many seperate redundant systems will hurt the consumers because the providers need to recoup the cost of building out seperate systems. Equally obvious, without competition the providers will gouge their customers. In the long run, the US consumer will probably be best served by consolidating to three carriers. Verizon/Sprint/MCI would operate a national CDMA network. AT&T/Cingular/T-Mobile would operate a national GSM network. Nextel would operate their own proprietary network.

    8. Re:Another one bites the dust by tigheig · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No, AT&T networks are AMPS (for analog), TDMA (for 2G Digital), and GSM. AT&T Wireless has *never* run CDMA. NTT DoCoMo would never have invested in AWS if they had. Nor would there have been any interest by Vodafone as their technology would not have translated well. By the way, one of the biggest reasons that AWS operational costs were so high, reflected in their often poor EBITA, was the fact that they ran these three separate technologies. Field technicians had to know all three to maintain the network, engineers had to find ways to make them all work together, and all phones had to support at least two of the three signaling types. A very difficult mish-mash of technology to support.

    9. Re:Another one bites the dust by Anontroll · · Score: 3, Informative

      I used to work in the construction office for a celluar company. The first year cost for a tower was about 150K in 2000. I have no idea what it would be now

    10. Re:Another one bites the dust by fingusernames · · Score: 2, Informative

      AT&T never had CDMA. I got a cell phone with them when they first opened the doors. They have two flavors of TDMA: US TDMA, and the Franco GSM on US frequencies. They have been trying to get customers to transition entirely to GSM. Cingular, likewise, uses GSM and US TDMA.

      The US, being the original cellular market, has gone through a lot of protocols. Pre-cell analog (single tower), AMPS & NAMPS (FDMA), digital TDMA of different flavors, and Qualcomm's CDMA. The Europeans, having built up their network after we blazed the path and learned the lessons, had the benefit of starting with their flavor of TDMA, GSM. TDMA had a slower growth pattern here because we had existing widespread AMPS networks, and customers didn't want to give up their AMPS phones for TDMA, which had markedly worse voice quality.

      Today, CDMA is arguably a better technology, in theory. AMPS had the best voice quality (when there was no interference/static), giving a full dedicated frequency swath for representing the human voice, based on the Bell experience. NAMPS compressed that to get more calls per cell, but was still pretty much excellent quality. TMDA (time division) digitizes and packetizes the human voice, introducing artifacts from the process, and other issues. CDMA, however, in theory restores the AMPS model of a full spectrum dedicated to representing the human voice. Rather than doing frequency division (FDMA), it does code division: it transmits all calls simultaneously over the exact same frequency range. They are coded, and then picked out of the static at the other end.

      Now, that's in theory... the proof is in the pudding. Way back when I worked at Motorola (in cell infrastructure (CIG), not handset), we were doing initial work with Qualcomm's CDMA. I heard that the engineers in the labs were making good progress, got good call quality. But then they did some wider testing, and the quality got much worse. They figured out that the code they devised to encode the voice worked great for a white male midwestern engineer. But not so great for others.

      While I think CDMA is a great technology in theory, I also think that given the call degradation failure mode when there is congestion, when networks get greedy and try to cram more and more calls onto a single network node, and so on, TDMA still has the upper hand. Having worked on the business side of the cellular industry, you have to understand that the holy grail of these technologies is not quality: it is density. More calls per physical network node (cell) is the goal. TDMA and CDMA were both designed from day one to be worse than AMPS in terms of call quality, a decision intended to increase call density. It is only through that increased density that everybody and their dog can afford to have a cell phone.

      As for having one network and one protocol, then where will innovation come from? That is actually one (possible) benefit to consolidation. When we opened up the frequencies with PCS (which, incidentally, wasn't intended to merely facilitate more and more mobile phone companies), we opened the door to our current environment of cut throat competition, where spending money on innovation gets squeezed out. Now that the market is consolidating, and carriers will be more profitable, we may start seeing some fundamental innovation, other than just with handsets. Wouldn't count on it though.

      Larry

    11. Re:Another one bites the dust by fingusernames · · Score: 2, Informative

      AT&T has multiple national plans. I have the AT&T National *Network* plan. That means that you do not pay roaming when you are on the AT&T network. If my phone says AT&T or Extended Area, I am not roaming. There is the other one where you allegedly never pay roaming charges... haven't tried that.

      I got my AT&T phone when AT&T first opened for business. I had the "national network roaming" plan from DAY ONE. That was what caused me to get AT&T service, since I knew AT&T had the money to build out a national network, and I would wind up being able to roam to nearly any major city for free, eventually.

      Which plan are you on? In either case, if your phone says AT&T, you shouldn't be charged roaming unless you are on a "local" plan.

      A couple years ago, I had to do battle with AT&T for months over that issue. They purchased another network, where I travel. Once they integrated the networks, my phone started saying "AT&T" on it, so I started using the network there. And, they charged me for roaming. I called them, and they credited my account. And it kept happening... I was told that once the network billing systems were integrated, it would work as it should. Then, I started having trouble getting credited. AT&T apparently revamped their billing system, and my calling plan got lost... I was still being billed as always, but the AT&T staff couldn't see any details on my billing plan, and thus didn't know squat about how to fix my bill.

      Then, they started getting uppity about it. One rep said I was on a local plan, I had to pay roaming out of my local area. I asked her to explain the years and years of my having travelled to both coasts, and not pay roaming, yet travelling 150 miles away to another AT&T market, and being charged roaming (I live in Chicago). She actually had the audacity to say that New York must be part of my local calling area, while Indianapolis is not. I then got a next level person. She acknowledged that they made a mistake, acknowledged that I shouldn't have been billed roaming, but then said that I had to pay, since the charges were more than 30 days and their "policy" was that they cannot adjust charges after 30 days. I said that I don't care about your policy, my *contract* is the only thing that governs what I have to pay. Then I got a "supervisor" who tried to pull the same "local calling area" BS. I again did the logic route, explain to me exactly how New York is local to Chicago, yet Indianapolis is not (both cities, same bill). He got confused, put me on hold, and then said that they would credit it. But still refused to acknowledge that they had erred. Eventually, after a long letter and a threatened lawsuit, and an update to their billing system I am sure, it got sorted out...

      Oh, and the roaming thing... I remember the days of analog. I had a book in my glovebox, with a list of all the carriers nationwide. My phone would tell me which cell I was on (national cell ID number) and I'd tell the phone which carrier I wanted to use in that cell, depending on the roaming rate in my little book.

      Larry

    12. Re:Another one bites the dust by tengwar · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Apparently EU carriers haven't caught on. Someone should point out that in the US it was big bragging rights for years that there was no roaming costs, and even today a no roaming plan costs slightly more than a local plan. People will pay a little for the convince of not having to worry about it. Only sprint (which has the smallest coverage area) covers everything on their own, all the other carriers work out cross deals.

      "Roaming" means using another network, and because "national roaming" (i.e. roaming to another network in your home country) is usually not permitted for licensing reasons in the EU, roaming effectively means international use. I would be surprised if retail tariffs covering international use are free in the USA.

      (IATE)

    13. Re:Another one bites the dust by lazytiger · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you're going to spout a bunch of companies, you should at least do some homework first.

      AT&T at the time of its breakup in 1984 consisted of 22 local "Bell" companies, plus its long distance service. AT&T local service was broken up into 7 companies:

      Ameritech (IL, IN, OH, MI, WI)
      Bell Atlantic (NJ, PA, DC, DE, MD, VA, WV)
      Bell South (FL, GA, NC, SC, AL, KY, LA, MS, TN)
      NYNEX (NY, ME, MA, NH, RI, VT)
      Pacific Telesis (NV, CA)
      SBC Comm (AR, IA, KS, MO, OK, TX)
      US West (AZ, CO, ID, MT, NM, UT, WY, MN, ND, SD, NE, OR, WA)

      Plus a few independent phone companies like GTE, SNET (Connecticut), and Sprint (only in this context could Sprint be considered "independent").

      Over the last 20 years, the original 7 "baby Bells" have gobbled up independents and each other leaving the current 4 Big Bells:

      Bell South (Bell South)
      SBC (Ameritech, SBC, Pacific Telesis, SNET)
      Quest (US West)
      Verizon (NYNEX, Bell Atlantic, GTE)

      Sprint and a handful of other independents remain the incumbent carriers in pockets around the country.

      For more history and info about the phone companies, check out www.teletruth.org.

      And of course, all of that is completely separate from the wireless carriers. The history of that is much more complicated, but of the five now remaining:

      Cingular is owned by SBC (60%) and Bell South (40%)
      Verizon is owned by Verizon (which is 45% owned by Vodafone, a huge UK phone company)
      Sprint owns Sprint (obviously)
      Nextel is actually an independent company (AFAIK)
      T-Mobile is owned by Deutsche Telekom

      If you're not supporting a huge US corporation, you're helping a huge foreign one instead. Pick your poison.

    14. Re:Another one bites the dust by Snowdog668 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I guess it depends on where you are in Wisconsin. I have to travel up to Elkhorn from Illinois quite a bit for work. I take Route 12 to get there (major four lane highway that leads eventually to Madison). Within a minute of crossing the border AT&T drops off completely. Not a weak signal, no signal at all for miles and miles. It pisses me off because I got AT&T specifically because of these trips and their coverage map says that they cover the entire route. Cingular, on the other hand, has a nice strong signal all the way up so I guess this is a good thing for me. I know from experience that AT&T will charge roaming if you use the Cingular network. I do get a good signal along the Chicago-Milwaukee-Green Bay route with AT&T. Anything more than a couple of miles west of Interstate 94 though sucks.

      --
      I wouldn't say I'm a bad gambler but the last time I went to Vegas I even lost a buck on the soda machine.
  4. lets just wait until by caston · · Score: 4, Insightful
    802.16e shows it's beautiful face. When people can talk, exchange data, surf the web from anywhere for either free or cheap then it will be a very great day and society will change a great deal.

    --
    Beings aspergers AND pulling chicks... I enjoy the challenge!
    1. Re:lets just wait until by donnyspi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      as with most everything else, it won't work nearly as well as you or I can imagine :-/

  5. Consolidation Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The mobile phone industry is one industry that could actually benefit from consolidation. Running redundant networks with redundant cell towers is very expensive. 3-4 major players should provide enough competition to keep prices down.

    1. Re:Consolidation Good by betelgeuse-4 · · Score: 5, Informative

      The UK has a small number(4-5) of major players in the mobile phone industry. However, prices aren't kept down, and regulators have to force the operators to reduce them.

      --
      Decode these
  6. AT&T... by Infernon · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've been a customer of AT&T Wireless for about five years. Up until about a year ago, I never had a complaint about them and thought that they were a pretty tight service.
    Then I moved and they renewed my contract without telling me. I didn't know until the end of the year when I called to renew and get a deal and found out that I wasn't up for renewal for another five months.
    Over the course of the past year, my bill has been incorrect on three different occasions, two of them, I just paid because I had absolutely no desire to deal with the customer service team. Long hold tiimes, RUUUUUUDE people and some of the worst double-talk about their policies.
    I just thought it was interesting how they started to go down the tubes and now this. I'm not saying that one less competitor is a good thing, but AT&T wireless customers really don't have anything to lose here. It can't get much worse...

    1. Re:AT&T... by nojomofo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, they can't "renew" a contract for you. A contract is a binding agreement between two parties. If you had a contract for 2 years, then it's for 2 years. They can't assign you a new contract without your approval. I bet you could have gotten out of that "contract".

    2. Re:AT&T... by Enry · · Score: 3, Funny

      Oh good, so you'll be used to Cingular then.

    3. Re:AT&T... by ThogScully · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'd run, if I were you. I finally got my fiance out of Cingular's grasp after her seemingly endless contract stopped getting renewed and added her to my TMobile plan. The prices are great and TMobile is awesome for customer service (at least they have been for me for several years back into the Voicestream years).

      As someone else has said, it can get much worse.
      -N

      --
      I've nothing to say here...
    4. Re:AT&T... by garcia · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree w/you completely.. What I want to know is if I can now drop my service and get out of my contract (as they have broken the terms because they are no longer AT&T).

      I want to switch to T-mobile for the data service and better Twin Cities coverage.

    5. Re:AT&T... by lpret · · Score: 2, Informative

      I completely agree. There are times I simply don't bother sitting on hold for 3 hours (as I have done more than once!) to contest a 15 dollar issue. I hate their contracts and everything about them, but -- I got a really tight handset and their service in my town is the best of all the providers (except Cingular, and now it doesn't matter!). Hopefully their customer service will improve a little. Maybe...

      --
      This is my digital signature. 10011011001
    6. Re:AT&T... by nolife · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You have just described the entire US cellular industry. Scope out the cellular newsgroups and you will find the same exact complaints stated almost daily about EVERY carrier.

      --
      Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
    7. Re:AT&T... by smithja · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I've actually been a completely satisfied ATT wireless customer since they hit the market - and an Ameritech cellular customer before that. On the other hand, my girlfriend has been a Cingular customer for just as long. For her ~$50/month she gets awful customer service, a shit handset that barely ever has over two bars of signal, spotty network coverage at best, and dropped calls out the arse.

      I'm *really* not looking forward to this. All i can do is hope that the ATT side takes over the call centers.

      This better not force me back to a landline.

  7. At least it's GSM... by winkydink · · Score: 4, Interesting

    albeit at frequencies incompatible with most of the rest of the world.

    --

    "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

    1. Re:At least it's GSM... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In which case, why does it matter?

      Because the cell phone producers have to make special versions of their hardware to work in the U.S, which increases effort and in the cases where they bother, also increases costs. Your phone is both out of date and expensive because of the work required by companies like Nokia in making it work in the U.S

      Besides which millions of Americans do travel to Europe and millions of Europeans travel to the U.S The U.S carriers are missing out on millions of dollars of roaming-call charges because the vast majority of those millions of phones moving in and out of the country don't work and therefore, cannot make calls on their network.

    2. Re:At least it's GSM... by ian13550 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Well, if you get a tri-band "world" GSM phone it works in 90% of the rest of the world where there is GSM coverage. My SE T68i worked all over Australia and Europe when I traveled there AND everywhere ATTWS has coverage (or roaming agreements) in the USA (which was getting larger and larger each month). Seems like it was compatible "with most of the rest of the world" to me...

    3. Re:At least it's GSM... by ThogScully · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'll second that... Getting a phone that supports multiple frequencies is best as it sends a message to the phone makers that this kind of portability is important. Personally, I know it has been valuable and while I'm sure not everyone will use it, it's very nice to know it's there and it's always good to support the best standard.
      -N

      --
      I've nothing to say here...
    4. Re:At least it's GSM... by winkydink · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Allow me to elaborate. The feature set on most US tri-band phones are behind those of the rest of the world. Why? Market share. Sell them in Asia-Pac and Europe by the truckload and then do a US design when and if time permits.

      Approximately 450 million handsets were sold last year. How many were GSM handsets sold in the US?

      'nuff said

      --

      "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

    5. Re:At least it's GSM... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Maybe the carriers have to make special version of their phones for Europe?

      No. The majority of the world uses 900 & 1800 GSM. The US, Canada, Mexico and South America are in the minority in the number of GSM carriers, GSM network coverage and users. The cell phone companies have to specifically design their hardware for a minority market.

      None of this changes the fact that U.S, Canadian, Mexican and South American GSM carriers are missing out on a lot of roaming calls.

    6. Re:At least it's GSM... by ThogScully · · Score: 2, Informative

      TMobile traditionally uses 1900MHz in the US and if they're expanding into other bandwidths, I haven't heard it. Not that it's impossible, but there's no case of "T-Mobile still uses the 900MHz GSM" as they never used to, even if they are now.
      -N

      --
      I've nothing to say here...
    7. Re:At least it's GSM... by winkydink · · Score: 2, Informative

      No carrier subsidies in China. You buy your phone retail and they cost as much as they do in the US. I don't think GSM has anywhere near 50% penetration in the US, but have not seen specific research.

      --

      "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

  8. Verizon's response. by DarkHelmet · · Score: 4, Funny

    Can you hear me now...
    (wait for it)
    (wait for it)
    NO CARRIER.

    SHIT!

    --
    /^[A-Z0-9._%+-]+@[A-Z0-9.-]+\.[A-Z]{2,4}$/i
  9. Re:ARGH! FUCK GSM! by caston · · Score: 4, Funny
    Somebody needs a hug.

    --
    Beings aspergers AND pulling chicks... I enjoy the challenge!
  10. I'm a current Cingular customer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    And I have to say that they've been nothing but courteous and respectful on the phone with me. They've even taken off $200+ long distance fees, and given me some extra perks(Free 2mb internet downloads/month).

  11. Re:Who benefits out of this? by FatAlb3rt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    horrid coverage reputation? odd, i've never heard of it. care to elaborate?

  12. Cingular by illuminata · · Score: 3, Funny

    It's the "I can tell Vodaphone to swallow my balls now" plan.

    --


    Until Slashdot fixes the funny modifier, use insightful or interesting. The poster knows your intentions.
  13. Re:ARGH! FUCK GSM! by AKnightCowboy · · Score: 4, Funny
    I don't need a cell-data-web-mail-espresso machine-cocksucking device

    Which provider were you with again? The phone I was looking at had a built-in camera, but nothing as extravagant as a cocksucking device and an espresso machine. Wow. Just... Wow.

  14. Now what? by NETHED · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What happens to the regional AT&T Networks? In the South East, there is a company owned by Triton Communications called SunCom, and they PROUDLY state, everywhere that they are part of the AT&T network. Website Just look at their logo! I wonder what this means for companies like them? Will AT&T Wirless be mirged out of existence?

    --
    --sig fault--
  15. Vodaphone's stock price.. by asdf+101 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ..

    A lot of relieved Vodafone investors then -- or potential investors for that matter -- who it seems didn't have much confidence in the ATT buyout.

    Now, next try for Vodaphone: Vivendi.

  16. why... by ZoneGray · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why gripe about a reduction in the number of wireless providers, when the last mile of copper is still a legal monopoly?

    Every wonder why wireless phone service is becoming cheaper than wired? Ever wonder why your wired service is a few decades behind in technology?

    Ever wonder why you can get a broadband cell phone set up immediately, but you often have to wait a month for DSL installation?

    Say what you want about the wireless market, it will soon offer better services at cheaper prices than wire. And the difference isn't technology, it's regulation.... it's the legislated monopoly that claims to protect consumers. But nowadays, poor folks who talk a lot are using wireless phones, because it's cheaper.

  17. Competition by zazas_mmmm · · Score: 4, Interesting
    and the number of competitors for wireless devices in the US is down by one.

    Is it inherently a bad thing to have one less competitor? Isn't competition supposed to only be the path towards customer satisfaction? In the world of wireless, where the end is good coverage, an excellent infrastructure, and flexible plans, as long as competition fosters these things it's good to have one more carrier in the fray. However, AT&T has arguably the worst network and worst coverage of any provider. Having them swallowed into a much larger network with much broader coverage is not inherently a bad thing.

    This is not to debate the merits of Cingular's network or to compare their coverage or plans with Verizon, T-mobile, or Sprint's--this is simply to say that beleagured AT&T customers serve to gain from the acquisition.

    --
    I'm a friend of a friend of the working class.
  18. Vodafone's stock price... by asdf+101 · · Score: 5, Informative

    ... rallied after it was announced that they had lost the bid for purchase of that ATT segment to Cingular.

    A lot of relieved Vodafone investors (or potential investors for that matter) then who it seems didn't have much confidence in the ATT buyout.

    Now, next try for Vodaphone: Vivendi.

    1. Re:Vodafone's stock price... by TopShelf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually, it's very typical for an acquiring company's stock to drop upon the announcement of a deal like this. It's a huge risk, the benefits of which (if they occur) are realized years down the road. In the short term, however, it can cause a cash crunch and provides an obvious distraction from the day-to-day work of improving the existing business.

      Rest assured that if Vodaphone announces a deal for Vivendi, the stock will drop once again...

      --
      Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
    2. Re:Vodafone's stock price... by perly-king-69 · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Not necessarily. Vodafone's stock price jumped 5% this morning because AT&T was, in analysts opinions, overpriced.

      --

      --
      This sig is inoffensive.

  19. might not be such a bad thing by johnjosephbachir · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Creeping toward monopoly, or only a (smaller) handful of key players in the mobile phone market might not be so bad in terms of quality of service. For some markets consumers benefit from conglomeration of resources. Think about long distance service. There are 3 major players and a handful of tiny players. I don't feel particularly ripped off on my long distance service. If there were 45 different long distance companies, then they would all be charging each other fees to go from network to network, there would be incompatibility problems which would cause decreased quality and also slower adaptation of new technology.

    Don't get me wrong, the reason it's like this is because the government doesn't step in and regulate the industry as much as it "should". If we were magically fully utilizing all of the state of the art fiber optic line that we had in the ground and it was all seamlessly available on the free market for any provider to rent at a standardized price, then having 100 bandwidth/long-distance companies would indeed be a good thing for consumers.

    But like the wording of my example might suggest, I don't think it would be possible for the technology to stay state of the art AND fully regulated at the physical layer even if the government wanted to. Governments are (reasonably...) good at taking something economically tangible, like value-units of food or healthcare, and distributing it pretty much fairly (not that they always do this, but if they do then they are capable of succeeding).

    But even if the US government regulated the network, and had a board of domain experts constantly auditing the state of the system, the fact of the matter is they would not have the motivation to maintain a state of the art network to support bandwidth and voice. Greedy corporations are good for that.

    And 100 greedy corporations would never be able to interoperate and also provide state of the art and fairly priced services.

    Lawrence Lessig, are you reading this? Set me straight!! :-)

  20. Hurray! Guess who's picking up the bill? by OlivierB · · Score: 5, Informative

    You Now what, customers are gonna pick up the bill. That's right. Here in Europe everybody got frenzy when the governments put teh 3G licenses on auction. Well all our operators forked out Billion$. How are they paying for it? Well we are! Altough there are ever more susbcribers to their service prices have not come down. Forget about the whole economies of scale and inversed moores law for telecommunication prices. We have kept a steady Price tag. Every time we text we have to pay roughly 20 Us cents for a 160 caracter SMS! Beter yet whenever we travel abroad (to another EU country) we end up paying calls for about 1.2$ per minute. That's for inbound calls too. I'm sick of it and have decided to ease off on my phone. Email is massively back in my live. Welcome to the club America

    --
    Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity
  21. obligatory posts by davejenkins · · Score: 4, Funny

    Let`s just get these out of the way now...

    "I for one welcome our new Singular overlords!"

    "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Netwerk!"

    and wait for it...

    "All your network are belong belong to us!"

    --

    davejenkins.com |

  22. Hope Cingular knows what they are getting... by idiot900 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I tried to buy a phone and service from AT&T Wireless last November, only to find that their store literally was incapable of selling me one because "their computers were down." This was the case for days. I've seen postings online by their employees detailing what a mess their internal systems are. Hopefully Cingular knows what they are getting into in terms of merging their operations.

    Also it's important to remember here that AT&T Wireless hasn't been a part of AT&T proper since 2001. They are a separate company with rights to the name and logo.

  23. Re:ARGH! FUCK GSM! by ThogScully · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The rant you make has nothing to do with GSM. You can get feature-laden phones for other services too.

    And besides that, if you don't want to use those phones, don't. Sure, it's getting harder to find phones that are just basic phones, but if the freebie phone you get with your service contract also happens to have a camera that you never use, who gives a damn? If it comes in handy, you'll have it and if it doesn't, you'll ignore it. No loss either way and no hardship on your part.

    And further, what does this have to do the overabundance of people driving SUVs and not paying attention to the road? Or with talking on cell phones while driving? Get a grip or get a hug as someone else suggested.
    -N

    --
    I've nothing to say here...
  24. Competition - rule of three by Inflatable+Hippo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I have heard various "learned" sources state that there is little point in having more than 3 serious competitors in any market.

    Fishing around on the web for a synopsis of this theory, I came across this:

    "So why three? The authors contend that markets are inherently efficient, and three competitors is the best number to promote and sustain that efficiency. Having two companies will lead either to monopoly pricing or to the two destroying each other, and more than three leads to overcapacity and perpetual price wars.

    Thus, when faced with three established competitors in a field, you want to think long and hard about whether you're willing to spend the money to knock one of them off. Consider instead becoming a product specialist ("We make the world's best X") or a niche player ("We only serve the Y market"). Trying to force your way in either by taking on a market leader directly or by expanding outside of your niche just doesn't seem to be a wise use of resources, according to the research."

    The source of this article can be found here:
    http://www.cioinsight.com/article2/0,3959,4 7255,00 .asp

  25. Re:What happed to my M LIfe by ThogScully · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Who knew that m-life was for a mobile phone plan

    I knew. They were advertising the same features I'd enjoyed on my Voicestream/TMobile service for years, included in normal service.
    -N

    --
    I've nothing to say here...
  26. Roaming "charges" by zoney_ie · · Score: 2, Interesting

    > Beter yet whenever we travel abroad (to another EU country) we end up paying calls for about 1.2$ per minute.

    I really hope that the European Commission cracks down on the operators over this. They need to get their act together. The whole mobile roaming thing is a serious impediment to the principle of freedom of movement in the E.U. In fact, I suspect that because of this it's only a matter of time before they do force the operators' hands.

    I mean for crying out loud, I have to roam even whilst travelling elsewhere in Ireland. (N.I. is U.K. networks). Yet Vodafone and O2 are two major networks both sides of the border. Can ANY valid reason be offered for higher roaming (heck, ANY roaming) charges in the case of ROI/NI cross-over?

    Even if there is higher costs involved, they could have roaming charges DOUBLE the normal charges and STILL be a fraction of what current roaming charges are.

    GRRRR. Gnarg. BLEAH. Rant, rave, etc... Just don't get me started on BANKING whilst in other E.U. States - it's mental (and expensive) DESPITE the Eurozone!

    --
    -- *~()____) This message will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
  27. That's "mlife" to you... by RobertB-DC · · Score: 2, Funny

    Who know after three months of pumping up this m-life that it was for a mobile phone plan.

    I remember the billboard with an 8-year-old girl, thinking "what's an mlife, and how do I get one?" The answer, Virginia, is that nobody really knows, but it costs about $40 billion.

    Those mlife ads always gave me the creeps, anyway. There was always something a little too close to a religious overtone to them... they looked like they were designed by the same folks who put together a local megachurch's billboard campaign. Kinda like "contemporary Christian" music is disturbingly similar to pop music, with "Jesus" in the place of "Baby".

    Gives me the creeps. Just give me that old time religion... it's good enough for me!

    --
    Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
  28. Upside for AT&T Wireless Customers by RGautier · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Perhaps this means that all of those AT&T Wireless customers (I was one - no longer am) will now get better service, both customer service and carrier service. Billing problems aside, trying to get ahold of the person in the current AT&T Customer Service to deal with a problem with either your phone or your bill is ridiculous. The Cingular people will likely do a MUCH better job than the behemoth that is AT&T. As far as coverage, AT&T coverage was great when I had it, but it was definitely oversubscribed. With the addition of Cingular towers to the equation, perhaps AT&T's customers will see some relief soon in major metropolitan areas.

  29. Amen! by nahdude812 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I switched from Cingular to Verizon some months back, and pay MORE for the "same service" under Verizon. Except I'm getting tons more service, the dead spots are almost non existant, and when they are, it's usually only for the span of 100 yards or so, not miles like Cingular.

    Also, Cingular screwed up my billing on almost a monthly basis. They kept claiming that I was delinquent on my payments, only my payments go out automatically 5 days in advance (I never incurred extra charges, so it was a flat fee every month). I know they got the payments on time, but they'd feed me the "You have to allow us 5 business days to process your payment" BS. My bill is paid the day you receive the check, not the day you get around to telling your computer system that it's paid. Heck, they cash the checks before they enter them in to their system, all of my checks were cashed 1-2 days before the due date, but they still told me I was delinquent.

    I'd call every month, and every month, they'd take off the late fees when I complained about it, but do you know how old this gets? Every single month calling them to get them to correct their errors. I switched off of them and evaluated AT&T and Verizon as potential new service providers, and decided on Verizon only because of the glowing testimony given by a coworker, who also lent me his phone for a day so I could check to see if those dead spots (eg, my house and my work) in Cingular's network were there for Verizon, when they were non existant under Verizon.

    If I had switched instead to AT&T, I'd be canceling my service right away even if it meant I had to suck down the early termination fee.

    --
    Slay a dragon... over lunch!
    1. Re:Amen! by nolife · · Score: 5, Informative

      Watch that billing with Verizon also! I pay my Verizon home service through an ebill with Checkfree. I can not simply select "pay bill" for it to be sent automatically, I have to subtract at least 2 business days because they were doing the same delay thing and charging late fees. Funny thing, I called to Verizon to inquire about the delay, they stated they have to hold on to a check for "3 to 5 days" before actually crediting the account. I explained it was an electronic payment through Checkfree, she claimed it was paid with physical check but could not give me the check number because of technical problems (I know why, because a check number did not exist). I know sometimes physical checks are sent out by Checkfree but my Verizon payment is all electronic but for some reason, still delayed.

      --
      Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
    2. Re:Amen! by cshuttle · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Yes!

      People tell me they can't see spending more on cellular service, and to go with Cingular instead of Verizon. Though I might pay a couple of dollars more per month, Verizon will do acrobatics to keep me content. There's a definite premium to be paid for adequate customer service.

    3. Re:Amen! by sphealey · · Score: 4, Interesting
      I'd call every month, and every month, they'd take off the late fees when I complained about it, but do you know how old this gets? Every single month calling them to get them to correct their errors. I switched off of them and evaluated AT&T and Verizon as potential new service providers, and decided on Verizon only because of the glowing testimony given by a coworker, who also lent me his phone for a day so I could check to see if those dead spots (eg, my house and my work) in Cingular's network were there for Verizon, when they were non existant under Verizon.
      I am happy for you, but my experience with Verizon was just the opposite. I got in a 3-month battle with them over dead spots in one of St. Louis' largest suburbs (average income, average density, average or above average cell phone usage). They WOULD NOT acknowledge that there was a problem (blaming everything from the instrument {which worked fine elsewhere} to sunspots), WOULD NOT send out a signal-strength truck ("What's that sir? We don't have those"), and WOULD lose the trouble ticket every day or two.

      I had to threaten to file a formal complaint with the state commerce commission and FCC (funny how ears suddenly perk up when they realize you know the difference between a gripe letter and a formal complaint) to get them to cancel the contract with no fees.

      I switched back to AT&T and have been using them ever since. No problems connecting anywhere in North America, including some places I really don't expect to get a signal.

      sph

  30. Re:Who benefits out of this? by GizmoToy · · Score: 2, Informative

    Close, all three have their own towers. About 6 months to a year ago they all signed agreements letting their subscribers use the towers of one of the other 2 companies (Cingular, TMobile, AT&T).

    Cingular has the largest GSM network, or did last I looked, if I'm not mistaken... followed by TMobile and then AT&T.

  31. Re:uhm, why? by squiggleslash · · Score: 3, Informative

    AT&T Wireless has never been a massive monopoly or even part of one. AT&T used to be an independent cellular carrier (McCaw Cellular Communications) competing with the AT&T-owned Bell carriers. After the AT&T breakup, AT&T bought McCaw. It was demerged in 2001, and the name really is the only part that has anything to do with old monopolies.

    --
    You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  32. It's Ma Bell all over again. by mgs1000 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Is SBC just determined to piece together what the courts broke up twenty years ago?

  33. Re:Who benefits out of this? by FarmerDave · · Score: 3, Informative

    "Map depicts an approximation of outdoor coverage." As a current Cingular customer, I can attest to the fact that it's a *WILD* approximation - their coverage actually sucks. I've been in several major metro areas where I could get *no* signal, while my Verizon-using counterparts were okay.

    --

    THINK
  34. Heads Up! by droleary · · Score: 5, Funny

    I go from the company with the absolute worst customer service in the world to the company with the absolute second worst customer service in the world, who just inherited the title of "worst" as the worst is now gone....

    Not to, uh, sound selfish or anything, but who were you thinking of going with next?

  35. Good news for Apple partnership? by adzoox · · Score: 4, Interesting
    At MacWorld Expo 2003 The Sony President and Cingular CEO appeared on the stage talking about the wonders of iSync and bluetooth. I think Apple has been sort of waiting for a clear partner for phone service/co branded phone. This might help. I think Apple partnering with Sony/Cingular is a good idea. Currently (at least in my area) AT&T and Cingular are the only ones that offer Sony Ericsson phones = most compatible with bluetooth programs like Romeo and Salling Clicker.

    --
    Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
  36. How will this affect Rogers AT&T I wonder? by CokoBWare · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'd like to know if Rogers AT&T Wireless will see any benefits from this purchase... We need better rates and better service in Canada. Maybe this union will trickle down *shrug*

  37. Oh come on... by Junta · · Score: 2, Funny

    I know from all of the Cingular commercials I hear that Cingular is a small little company against the big behemoths, right? They aren't some big, huge wireless provider, the commercials say they are like a little adept startup. Commercials wouldn't lie would they?

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  38. its a good thing.... by The+Lynxpro · · Score: 4, Insightful


    Its a good thing I only opted for a one-year contract with AT&T Wireless when I switched from Cingular back in November. There is no way I'll resubscribe this year with the merged entity unless the FCC forces SBC to spin off Cingular (doubtful). I do not want to be forced into signing up for a residential landline with SBC just as they do with DSL. My rule of thumb is I do not do any business with SBC and I don't intend to break this now. I don't reward shoddy service providers like SBC.

    --
    "Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
  39. Re:Good for districting by gregarican · · Score: 2, Informative

    AFAIK the SIM card is a proprietary feature of the GSM cellular transmission method. T-Mobile and Cingular are American GSM carriers. Then you have CDMA carriers like VerizonWireless and Sprint PCS. As for AT&T Wireless I thought that they were still operating on the TDMA cellular transmission method. If so, then the SIM card wouldn't be an option.

  40. Can you say more layoffs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I turned down a job with those ATTWS clowns back in Feb. It just didn't feel right.

    The worst part? As I interviewed numerous architects and asked the question "What do you worry about most?" EVERYONE said "more layoffs".

    Those were mainly sr. contributors with 7+ years experience in the company. Normally, I'd expect concerns about not meeting schedule, etc.

    Also amusing was that nobody knew (including the managers) who 'owned' system performance. These clowns had tens of millions of HP servers running customer service and they didn't even have a performance manager, strategy, etc.

    And then they wondered why the system collapsed during the number portability fiasco.

    Good luck to everyone at ATTWS.

    Oh yeah.. They were also cheap bastards. The funny thing.. During the week of the interview I was staying in a $2M condo at Whistler that was owned by a VP at ATTWS.. I can assure you that those guys are doing Just Fine no matter how much they pressure their 'lackies'.

  41. Re:I wonder... by shidoshi · · Score: 2, Interesting

    *heh* That's really funny, because I've got an AT&T cell phone, and it indeed does exactly that. I can always tell I'm getting a call three seconds before my phone actually rings.

  42. Re:Good for districting/AT&T is GSM (mostly) by adzoox · · Score: 2, Informative

    Suncom (as most AT&T networks) is GSM - there are some networks within both Cingular and AT&T that are NOT GSM. I believe the Florida market (around Jacksonville) has a non SIM card TDMA Cingular network - I think areas of Tennessee may have the same for Cingular.

    --
    Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
  43. FYI by nial-in-a-box · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you have AT&T Wireless, get out NOW. Cingular has the most awful, broken billing system ever. They will shut down your account if your bill is one day late and charge you an activation fee to turn it back on. Their highest national plan still does not give you anywhere near unlimited national service. Not to mention it takes them about a day to get a phone activated right. Unfortunately, AT&T Wireless, one of the better (but still not good compared to what Asia has) wireless providers will most likely cease to exist as we know it. This can be a really good thing for Cingular, as they were the most logical buyer, but they will likely botch this. I have AT&T Wireless; as soon as I saw they were up for sale I started looking for another provider and am now in the switch process. Good luck.

    --
    I am feeling fat and sassy
  44. Re:WTF? by Atryn · · Score: 2, Informative
    They are not an SBC company.
    Read the AP Wire article carried on a million news feeds, and you'll find at the end:

    "SBC Communications Inc. owns 60 percent of Cingular, while BellSouth owns 40 percent."
    --
    Come play Moral Decay!
  45. Weighing the Advantages vs. Disadvantages by cybercreek · · Score: 2, Informative

    Your complaint about Cingular's billing system may be legit but if ATT's is better why do you assume they would get rid of ATT's and not Cingular's?

    I switched from Cingular to ATT because when I drove from California to Florida in 2001 there were few places along the way that had Cingular's service. With ATT phone towers and customers added to Cingular, they will probably become the wireless service with the largest and most access points without the "extended range" or other obnoxious status messages that mean more money.

    I did like the memory chip in Cingular's phones which I had to give up when switching to ATT but perhaps I will regain that with this merger.

    In the mean time I have an offer from ATT on my desk to get $50 credit on my bill if I sign up for a new annual service. Don't know if I would lose the ability of having the roll-over minutes that Cingualr has, a feature I look forward to as I don't use my phone that much.

  46. Re:Good for districting by gregarican · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Just some info regarding poor billing/CSR service and whatnot. I worked as IT Manager in one of the pre-VerizonWireless entity's major call centers (PrimeCo). The attrition rate is unbelievable. We're talking something like 50% turnover per year from what our experiences were. With that much turnover it's hard to keep trained and knowledgeable staff on hand to take care of the customer.

    Each competitor would one-up the other and would then become the flavor of the month. For us it was Aerial (which begat VoiceStream, which un turn begat T-Mobile). CSR's would flock to the competitor and take all of their acquired knowledge. The holes for our company were so bad at one point we resorted to exclusively hiring temps. Talk about a drop in knowledge!

    I would be surprised if hardly any of these companies had typically outstanding CSR's. With industry turnover rates and outsourcing concerns it's unfortuntaly the lay of the land.

    That's why if I have an imporant question or concern I call in about 2-3 times. That way I have an average answer that might be a little more correct than if I just called in once. Sad, but true...

  47. Re:Not just SBC & BellSouth consolidating... by iamsure · · Score: 4, Insightful

    " I bet we see Vodaphone or Verizon grab T-Mobile now. "

    Wrong technologies. Verizon Wireless would more likely grab Sprint - which uses the same carrier technology. Its also one of the reasons Sprint's stock raised on the news of the AT&T merger - rampant speculation that they would be "plan B".

    --
    GPL'd web-based tradewars themed space game
  48. This can't be all bad. by Thranduil · · Score: 3, Funny

    If it reduces the number of kiosks at the mall trying to give me four free phones, I'm all for it.

  49. Cingular is bad news by serith · · Score: 3, Informative

    Nearly two years ago I was with Cingular. Roughly half way into my one year contract with them, my nokia phone, "died" (for lack of a better term). I really never cared becuase I had two phones on the plan, the other being an Erikson model. Roughly two months after this incident, my erikson model "died" (the other end could not hear me when i called out on the phone). So, I traveled down to my nearest cingular office (not one of those small, teenage staffed joints), but one of their corporate offices here in central new york. I informed a representitive of what had happened, and as politely as possible she informed me that there was nothing she could do for me, and I would have to continue paying my phone bill for the last 3 months of my contract (for phones that no longer work). I then reluctantly asked if i could pay a penalty fee and switch phones, or exchange the non working ones for at least one new phone that would work. The representivie informed me that I was not allowed to do this until my contract expired. Well, to sum up what happened, I still owe three months of service to Cingular, but like hell will they ever see one penny from me. They did not provide me with a service for my remaining three months, considering I was never able to use it. Cingluar is bad news. I'm now with Cricket Wireless (yeah i know.. not the best choice.. but the coverage on my phone suits me everywhere I venture, and unlimited service for $29.99/month is'nt bad.) I will never go back to Cingular, ever.

  50. Digital network breakdown by scarhill · · Score: 5, Informative
    No AT&T was TDMA (not CDMA) and is in the process of converting to GSM. Cingular is also making the exact same TDMA-to-GSM transition, so there is a good technology fit.

    AT&T's TDMA network had great nationwide coverage, and they were the first major provider to offer a nationwide no-roaming plan. My understanding is that their GSM network isn't nearly as good yet.

    Vodafone (which is a major provider in Europe, where everyone is GSM) is also a major shareholder in Verizon, which uses CDMA.

    Here's the list of the major providers and their network types:

    AT&T TDMA-->GSM Cingular TDMA-->GSM Verizon CDMA Sprint CDMA T-Mobile GSM Nextel iDEN Alltel CDMA US Cellular CDMA
  51. What IS left of AT&T now? by zapp · · Score: 3, Interesting

    AT&T sold off their cable TV and cable Internet to Comcast. Now they sold off their Wireless branch to Cingular. What do they have left, long distance plans?

    Why would they leave themselves with only the things from the past that are likely to die out eventually, and ditch the new technologies?

    --
    no comment
    1. Re:What IS left of AT&T now? by uslinux.net · · Score: 2, Informative
      One word: broadband.



      AT&T has the absolute best backbone and amazing service for businesses. I have an AT&T T-1. It wasn't much more than going through Qwest or a local wholesaler, but they have the best SLA out there (one day credits for 15 minutes of downtime, 65ms latency throughout north america and something like 120ms throughout the world). When Verizon accidentally disconnected my local loop, AT&T was on the phone to me within 5 minutes of the circuit dropping.

  52. Coverage complaints by Shant3030 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    All posters that complain about coverage:

    Your complaints are meaningless unless you specify the area in which you live. Saying "my coverage sucks" is uninformative and holds no weight.

    I live in the metro NY area and my AT&T connection is average. Compared to the Sprint coverage, it seems to better, but my friends and family prefer Verizon and/or T-Mobile over both.

    --
    100% Insightful
  53. Grammar nitpick by Robotech_Master · · Score: 2, Informative

    Not less carriers, fewer carriers. "Fewer" is used for quantities, "less" is used for measurements. "Add less flour, make fewer cookies."

    (Grumble grumble pet peeve etc.)

    --
    Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
  54. You think that's bad? by Rich0 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have my phone, long distance, DSL, and wireless with Verizon (that's one big bill).

    For a while every time I sent them a payment they'd send me a check back for the same amount a couple of weeks later, along with a delinquient bill. Apparently they were crediting my payments to an old closed-out account I used to have a few months prior (funny - they accepted the first few payments just fine). They DID NOT return MY check (as if it had bounced or something) - they cashed my check and wrote me back a check of their own for the same amount. I guess the post office didn't complain (two people paying 37 cents each way to send the same money back and forth to each other). And yes - my NEW phone/account number was on my checks.

    So, I went with automated credit-card billing. I figured that if I just give them a blank-check to take money from me they might just feel like taking money from me (as opposed to taking it and sending it back).

    You can imagine my surprise when after getting the notice that I can stop paying my bill my next bill indicates that they charged my credit card about $3 and the rest is past-due. How do you end up with a past-due balance on an auto-pay account? Apparently when I had called to complain a few months prior about the delinquent bills that they didn't accept payment for they had put some sort of freeze on my balance so the credit-card routine wasn't charging me for the full amount.

    The good news is that the last few months have been smooth sailing - you apparently only have to hassle Verizon for 6 months or so before they figure things out. And fortuantely I don't need to apply for a mortgage anytime soon (I'm sure all the 1-month-behind payments don't look good).

    That isn't half as good as my brother's attempt to get a line installed at his new home. They wanted a deposit since he didn't have phone service with them in the previous six months (which they would hang onto indefinitely - not credit to the first few bills). He pointed out that he managed to qualify for his new mortgage, the phone company shouldn't have trouble trusting him with a phone bill. The rep replied that the rules said that you needed a deposit - unless you could document that you were low-income and couldn't afford it. Gee, that makes sense - you need a deposit so they can be sure you'll be paying your bills unless you can prove that you can't afford to pay your bills.

    Must be some regulation...

  55. America = worse cell service in the world by gioan · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Woohoo! Now I can finally have the option of switching to even worse service! And, thanks to number portability, I can take my number with me!

    Please, let's face it, our mobile market is idiotic. Competition with utterly incompatible standards in a public utility service is BAD. Europe, with the roaming/sharing agreements between everyone is definitely preferable.

    And before you say "but my service with vendor X is great," trust me, I have all the major vendors. Yes, I have a Verizon phone cause it has the best coverage. Yes, I have a TMobile phone, cause I need an overseas number. Yes, I have an ATT Blackberry, with phone service cause I need a link to corporate email. Yes, my wife had a Sprint phone, and let me tell you how utterly useless it was (so bad I couldn't believe they sold the service). And yes, between all of these, there are still areas where the service sucks. Verizon, the best of the bunch in the US, still is useless when I travel overseas, since they decided to deploy only CDMA technology, which is useless everywhere but maybe Canada. Let's hear it for free market chaos!

  56. Merger = More towers, better coverage by acadiel · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If you think about it, Cingular has lots of markets with just 1900Mhz spectrum (California comes to mind.) AT&T has lots of markets with 800Mhz spectrum (California comes to mind). With control of the old A-B band 800Mhz spectrum *and* a PCS 1900Mhz spectrum, Cingular's coverage is bound to just get better with the acquisition. There are plenty of spaces where Cingular has 800Mhz spectrum (i.e. Chicago) and AT&T has the PCS spectrum. From all the complaints I hear about Cingular in the Chicago area, coverage is just bound to get better.