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Electronic Arts' Domination Of The Market - Bad?

Will writes "A recent article at Gamemethod makes claims about how big companies can squash the little guy, and good gaming along with it: 'With almost 600 million dollars in sales in 2003(not including December), and 20% of the entire market, Electronic Arts is a developing and publishing powerhouse... Why should you be worried that EA rules the American gaming market and dominates sales? Well, if EA becomes too large of a force in the industry, it has some potentially damaging side effects that will hurt us, the consumers.'" It goes on to specify that "competition breeds creativity", suggesting "there's a problem when EA has enough money to buy out any studios that bring out a hit game", and concluding that "the progress of games as a medium will continue, but at a snail's pace in comparison to the previous years of fierce competition."

83 comments

  1. EA's latest games stink by vasqzr · · Score: 0, Flamebait


    The latest sports games from EA stink. They're full of bugs, and are just a roster update.

    Back in the SNES/Genesis days, they really came out with some great stuff. NHLPA Hockey, Madden, Bulls vs Blazers...

    Now it's just the same thing over, and over again.

    1. Re:EA's latest games stink by roche · · Score: 5, Informative

      Are you insane? The new Madden has more new features in it than any other Madden in quite some time.

      The new playmaker control is awesome. You can change the direction of the run before you even snap the ball now. You can also change the route of the receivers. This is all without having to call a audible and completely change the play/formation. While on defense you can also change the way your defense reacts after the snap of the ball. You can pull every one in to stop a run, or you can pull them back to cover a pass. While running the ball at any time, you can also you it to call for blocks. None of this was possible before, and it is very hard to live without once you get used to it.

      They also improved the franchise mode of the game by leaps and bounds. Not only do you just play season after season, now you can do some stuff a owner would do. These are things like set the prices of various stadium prices to improve you bottom line, like parking, concession prices, souvenir prices and ticket prices. Heck, you can even pick up the team and move them to a new city. Once you get to the new city, you can design the stadium and new jerseys.

      With all of those new features, it hardly sounds like just a roster update to me.

      --

      roche
      Bah Humbug!
    2. Re:EA's latest games stink by bigman2003 · · Score: 1

      NBA Street II is awesome. A fantastic basketball games with a lot of depth. Far more than just a roster update.

      The SNES/Genesis days may have been your shining hour, but the games are getting better and better.

      --
      No reason to lie.
    3. Re:EA's latest games stink by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You could change plays on the fly in ESPN/NFL2K now for what 4 years? EA games really stink.

    4. Re:EA's latest games stink by MMaestro · · Score: 0
      The new Madden has more new features in it than any other Madden in quite some time.

      And your point is?

      All the recent Maddens are improved thanks to hardware advances. New playmaker control? Sorry, but before the Playstation, gamers were stuck with a simple D-pad for directional control. Adding two joysticks, doubling the RAM, and using a video card capable of drawing over a dozen players in 3D is a lot more powerful than anything the SNES or the Genesis were capable of. Thats like saying Doom 1 sucked compared to Half-Life because you couldn't look up and down, you couldn't jump, or move crates around. Its called technical limitations. For all we know Pac-Man could've been originally been designed as a 3D, 1st person view game with online multiplayer with humans playing both Pac-Man and the ghosts at the same time but was scrapped because of technical limitations at the time.

      Design a stadium and new jerseys? Yeah, lets see you try to do that on 5+ year old hardware.

    5. Re:EA's latest games stink by roche · · Score: 1

      Who knows what they would have devoleped back then if they had better hardware. That is a pointless argument because the technology was not there at the time.

      My point is they are adding new features every year. The game is not just a roster update like others have said. Those are all new features that were added this year on Madden. They were not there on 01, 02, and 03. All three of those previous versions were on the same platform for me, the ps2.

      I never said the older versions of Madden sucked. I never said ANYTHING sucked. You are putting words in my mouth. I know how it was playing on the older systems becuase I was playing on them at the time, and having a good time.

      --

      roche
      Bah Humbug!
    6. Re:EA's latest games stink by chanceH · · Score: 1

      I like NCAA. They do add non-trivial features. They don't suck.

      But for the love of god, I'm not buying a new version of NCAA until you can design your own freaking plays.

  2. Evil Monopolies by jo42 · · Score: 3, Funny


    Eh, sort of like Microsoft, no?

  3. EA used to be the innovator by scumbucket · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I remember playing my first EA games back in the 1980's on a C-64.

    Games like M.U.L.E., Seven Cities of Gold, Pinball Contstruction Set, Mail Order Monsters, etc. These games were fantastic. EA used to play up the fact that the games they published were created by 'artists', not just programmers.

    But the table turned long ago. Profit became more important than creativity. EA now is afraid to publish innovative titles because they might negatively impact it's balance sheet.

    --
    CMDRTACO CHECK YOUR EMAIL!
    1. Re:EA used to be the innovator by *weasel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's actually that business-centric attitude which has ensured that EA is the only major third party publisher that's still around from the 80s.

      Everyone else is on life-support or alive by name only simply for the free marketing and publicity one can milk from 'Midway' or 'Atari'. Not even 'Sierra' was that lucky.

      It may seem tragic - but EA is to games what Warner Brothers is to film. Sometimes they get something right - but most of the time they don't. And they're the only ones with the money to put out content on a regular schedule.

      That aside, the only way this would be 'Bad(tm)' for gaming in general, would be if EA was leveraging its advantage in an anti-competitive manner. If it was strangling the distribution chain RIAA-style to keep (comparitive) indy titles off BestBuy's shelves, or if it was essentially blackmailing console developers into schemes to dissuade competition.

      That hasn't yet happened. Although meatspace distribution has been a hackneyed, independent-unfriendly mess for over a decade - it isn't of EA's making.

      --
      // "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
    2. Re:EA used to be the innovator by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think profit was more important in the early days of EA than it is now. When they were small, a bad quarter could mean the end of the company.

    3. Re:EA used to be the innovator by ronfar · · Score: 1
      It's actually that business-centric attitude which has ensured that EA is the only major third party publisher that's still around from the 80s.

      Everyone else is on life-support or alive by name only simply for the free marketing and publicity one can milk from 'Midway' or 'Atari'. Not even 'Sierra' was that lucky.

      Activision is still here too, they had a few hits this year, but they seem kind of similar to EA.
      --
      All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
    4. Re:EA used to be the innovator by I(rispee_I(reme · · Score: 1

      "It's actually that business-centric attitude which has ensured that EA is the only major third party publisher that's still around from the 80s."



      Not counting Konami, Square, CapCom, the list goes on.

    5. Re:EA used to be the innovator by GPLDAN · · Score: 1

      Anyone have a scan of that poster with Bill Budge and the other founders?

      What EA did better than most game companies in the genesis days was manage money.

    6. Re:EA used to be the innovator by ja2ke · · Score: 1

      "It's actually that business-centric attitude which has ensured that EA is the only major third party publisher that's still around from the 80s." LucasArts is still around, for the same reason you cite for EA. LucasArts just did a far worse job at it than EA did.

    7. Re:EA used to be the innovator by pommiekiwifruit · · Score: 1
      Activision is still here too

      As with the other companies, some years ago they sacked every employee, so I think that Activision is here just in name only, unless some of the old-timers have returned since.

      Similarly someone recently bought the "Commodore" name, ditto for "Mastertronic" and the other companies.

  4. 20% isn't enough... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    20% isn't enough of a market share for EA to truly dominate the videogame industy. Compare this to the 90% share of the OS market that Microsoft has... or the 50+% share of the console market that Sony has. While EA is a 900 pound gorilla, we're nowhere close to them 0wn1n9 us all. As far as I can recall EA has never stifled the creativity of the industry... (and no, I don't work for EA)

    1. Re:20% isn't enough... by SandSpider · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, I have worked for EA. They bought out the company I worked for, then put us out of business. And that was because they liked what we were doing. Imagine what they'd do if they didn't like us.

      It's not necessary to have 90% market share in order to dominate the industry. No, they can't buy out Microsoft, but they can cause problems for the small developer.

      =Brian

      --
      There is nothing so good that someone, somewhere, will not hate it.
    2. Re:20% isn't enough... by harrkev · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You cannot buy out a privately-owned company unless the owner WANTS to sell.

      If they REALLY liked what you were doing, then why didn't they continue development on it? After all, they own it. If it is very nice, they can profit from it.

      It is a valid strategy to buy out the small competition before they become large. But if you buy them out, you might as well use their products since you own them.

      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
    3. Re:20% isn't enough... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And that was because they liked what we were doing. Imagine what they'd do if they didn't like us.

      If they didn't like what you were doing, they wouldn't have buyed your company anyway...

      Unless they REALLY didn't like what you were doing. Then they would sue you.

    4. Re:20% isn't enough... by Nohbi · · Score: 1

      In some industries I've been heavily involved in if you have a 10% market share you're successful, for example banks and stock brokerages. 20% means you likely have a bigger hold than anyone else.

      Think of it this way, if there are 10 major companies in the games industry, then EA counts for two of them. That leaves 8 smaller players on the battle field. Mind you EA is also a publishing house, not just a development house, so they occasionally fund smaller companies who can play by their rules. That gives the smaller companies access to the marketing and distibution arms of EA, which makes partnering with them attractive and buyouts much much easier, making the monster bigger.

      I like to think of EA as "The blob" rather than a 900lb monkey anyway.

    5. Re:20% isn't enough... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They did buy out westwood, and took over a few key employees, but they didnt need anyone else.

      They still sell the westwood titles, they just dont include the name anymore.

    6. Re:20% isn't enough... by Moofie · · Score: 1

      "It is a valid strategy to buy out the small competition"

      Er, sounds like an anti-competitve strategy for me. Is that good for consumers? NO. It's good for EA's bottom line.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    7. Re:20% isn't enough... by geminidomino · · Score: 1
      "It is a valid strategy to buy out the small competition" Er, sounds like an anti-competitve strategy for me. Is that good for consumers? NO. It's good for EA's bottom line.
      What makes you think EA (or any other company, for that matter) gives a rat's ass about consumers instead of their bottom line?
    8. Re:20% isn't enough... by Moofie · · Score: 1

      They don't. Hence the problem.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
  5. Not the biggest problem. by Doctor+Cat · · Score: 4, Insightful
    It's not a situation of a single monopolistic force rather than "a few big publishers" rather than "a lot more little publishers and developers. And while that might lead to somewhat less creativity, that's not the big problem. There was certainly a fair amount of variety in the days when the 8 bit Nintendo was so powerful in the market that Nintedo could make even Toys 'R Us dance like a puppet on their strings.

    More of an issue is that games are so much more expensive now that anyone willing to invest the money at all to cover a development budget is likely to be a lot less willing to take risks. Which usually means churning out clones. I remember watching (and working on) the Ultima series when it went from Richard Garriott churning out an entire game with just hard work (and a little help with the music from his buddy Ken Arnold), to a $50,000 budget for Ultima 5, to a $250,000 budget for Ultima 6, then on up into the millions. Ultima 9 was well into the tens of millions from what I've heard.

    The only way a game company is likely to take a risk on a totally new type of gameplay with multi-million dollar budgets is if they have a "name" developer like Sid Meier or Will Wright. A few of the shareware and budgetware and college student developers that aren't busy churning out clones of Tetris, Pacman, and Shanghai will turn out new things from time to time. But of course they'll never have the flashy graphics of the big expensive titles. Want to look for and/or support innovation? Download some of their work. Maybe someday the mainstream game industry will develop something like the Independent Film world, though so far they haven't gotten too far in that direction (just one festival, the IGF). While having a few big publishers rather than a lot of little publishers might lead to less creativity in games...

    --

    Furcadia - A free online game with user created content, DragonSpeak scripting, & more.

    1. Re:Not the biggest problem. by Ondo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The only way a game company is likely to take a risk on a totally new type of gameplay with multi-million dollar budgets is if they have a "name" developer like Sid Meier or Will Wright.

      Which seems reasonable, because generally most people aren't likely to risk $50 on a totally new type of gameplay unless it's from a "name" developer like Sid Meier or Will Wright.

    2. Re:Not the biggest problem. by Samhaine · · Score: 1

      More of an issue is that games are so much more expensive now that anyone willing to invest the money at all to cover a development budget is likely to be a lot less willing to take risks.
      ...as opposed to the days when SNES and N64 games retailed for US$60-80 each?

    3. Re:Not the biggest problem. by TRACK-YOUR-POSITION · · Score: 1

      There's plenty of interesting and creative mods and total conversions--which suggests that its the difficulty of building a competitive 3D gaming engine thats holding back truly independent gaming development--if at some point a free (LGPL or similar) gaming engine on par with currently released commercial games came to exist, one might expect to see a rebirth of independent commercial development.

    4. Re:Not the biggest problem. by AtaruMoroboshi · · Score: 2, Informative


      you misunderstand...expensive for the developer to develop, not for the consumer to buy.

      .

    5. Re:Not the biggest problem. by danila · · Score: 1

      It's not like small producers can't make games. No, the problem is that the industry strives to make the best possible games and the market is ready to support them. This means creating quite complex games with lots of content (levels, textures, etc.), which costs a lot of money, preventing competition by small producers as an unintended side effect.

      It's the same with Hollywood blockbusters. You don't NEED 100 mln to make a great movie, 5-20 mln is often enough. It's just that some studios will invest 300 mln and make a film that is impossible to make cheaper, in effect monopolising a small segment of the market.

      But don't despair. Eventually, after one or two generations of 3D engines we will likely see reusable engines and objects. Then the costs of creating a new game will dramatically drop. In addition, improving AI and programming technique will eventually make procedural textures, models and levels a reality, which is bound to seriously simplify content creation.

      --
      Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
  6. On the subject of Need For Speed by Sevn · · Score: 2, Offtopic

    It's my favorite series. Hands down (I play it on the PC). You can argue about other racing games, but I love the feel, or at least I did. Need For Speed Hot Pursuit 2 rocked. Quite impressive. I still play it online. It was the reason I forked out 200 bucks for a Logitech Momo Force. But Need For Speed Underground is VERY disappointing. In drag racing mode, my wheel simply doesn't work. Downloaded all patches for the game. Downloaded the Wingman 4.3 software. Installed any other patches I could find. That and I'm stuck doing "drifting" before I can go any further in the game. Instead of prior titles in the series where you could select from a board of possible paths to take, you have ONE path. And the fact that I think "drifting" is fucking stupid, and I suck at it means I can no longer enjoy this game. They did a great job appealing to the erector set wing, fast and furious wannabe crowd, but the gameplay flat out sucks. They also made "Hard" mode way too easy. Until "drifting", I hadn't lost a single race. Thank God I thought to quickly hit the arrow keys on my keyboard during my first drag race when I noticed my wheel wasn't working anymore. It works with everything else in the game. I'm definitely not impressed.

    --
    For every annoying gentoo user, are three even more annoying anti-gentoo crybabies. Take Yosh from #Gimp for example.
    1. Re:On the subject of Need For Speed by iainl · · Score: 1

      You think that's messed up? On the "playable" demo, there was no opportunity to remap controls at all.

      It just saw I had a controller connected, and assigned the Z-axis to accellerator/brake. Despite the fact that my controller has them as two seperate axes. I was left trying to play the thing with accelerate being take my foot off the pedal, and the neutral point as half accelerating. Flooring the accelerator was actually brake. Ouch. I couldn't even try keyboard controls, as it thought I had my foot hard on the accelerator when I wasn't touching it.

      --
      "I Know You Are But What Am I?"
    2. Re:On the subject of Need For Speed by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      ..also it could have been a modern version of 'street rod', but alas couple of idiotic design choices(probably to make it more easier to get into? or what?) smash it down.

      like buying upgrades, what good is it when there's no choice in buying them? the choices open up slower than what you have money so it gets just a matter of buying everything as fast as the game 'allows' you to. as a consequence the game becomes just a series of hardening races(not to mention the silly drifting). ..and that leads to that a game that could have been serious entertainment for weeks and weeks becomes just light, easy to get into and finish entertainment withoug any hooks to keep you hooked for longer.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    3. Re:On the subject of Need For Speed by Neo-Rio-101 · · Score: 1

      I agree. I mean, the upgrading system is completely "dumbed down". You are totally right though, it COULD have been a modern version of Street Rod, but unfortunately that aspect of the game never got fully fleshed out. Getting money for winning is just a waste of time because you never have to make eral buying choices. Where's the point in buying different brands of parts if they all work exactly the same (oh, can't make a mockery of the sponsors' parts hey?).. although I bet Nissan plowed a lot into EA, as their cars turn out to be the best in the game. What's left is basically a game with a very "arcade" feel to it.. which is still lots of fun if you treat it as such. Unfortunately, the game is totally lacking in the simulation/car management areas, which COULD have really made the game shine as being more than "just another" arcade racing game.

      --
      READY.
      PRINT ""+-0
  7. Does it matter? by zuba_inverse · · Score: 2, Insightful

    At the basic level, I only buy games that I know I like or in a series that are now sentimental favorites of mine. The only EA games I think I have are 2 from the SSX snowboarding series for my PS2. I think if I had to name the publisher for most of my other games I'd score about 60% or so. I would have a better time remembering the developers. Anyway, if they (EA) release a bunch of stale games, people will look elsewhere. In the games market, there will always be an elsewhere.

  8. I should probably mention.... by Sevn · · Score: 1

    Before some overzealous moderator pounces. The Need For Speed series are EA GAMES titles. The only ones I play in fact.

    --
    For every annoying gentoo user, are three even more annoying anti-gentoo crybabies. Take Yosh from #Gimp for example.
    1. Re:I should probably mention.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      looks like some dumbass got ya anyway bub

  9. EA is all that is wrong in the market by DarkFencer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    EA buys companies left and right that have made some successful games. They then tinker with the company, forcing them to make less sucessful games. When they make a couple games that aren't blockbusters, the division is gutted and shut down (or just the name is kept).

    They have done this with MANY divisions of their company. Most notably Origin a few years back.

    1. Re:EA is all that is wrong in the market by Xian97 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I have to agree. Origin was one of the most innovative companies around with the Ultima series, Wing Commander, and one of my favorites, Crusader No Remorse/Regret. After being assimilated by EA, the third in the Crusader series was shelved, and the Ultima series had two very bad releases which were rushed out the door and very buggy to the point of being nearly unplayable.

      Another casualty was Looking Glass Studios, a real innovator in the industry. They practically created the entire genre of modern stealth games with their Thief series. They showed what could be done with a 3D engine besides just making another FPS with Ultima Underworld and System Shock. Both games would really draw you into the story and had serveral innovations over anything out at that time, features like looking up and down while Doom and it's clones just had 2D vision.

      These days I look to Europe for innovation. Most of the new developments I am excited about are coming from smaller studios there, Arx Fatalis, Gothic II, and the upcoming Sacred in the RPG genre to name a few. Serious Sam was another good effort from a small studio. It used the same tried and true formula as many others but somehow managed to bring the fun back to the genre.

      EA tries to dumb down everything they touch to appeal to the lowest common denominator and leaves the real gamers lacking.

    2. Re:EA is all that is wrong in the market by AltaMannen · · Score: 1

      EA didn't have much to do with Looking Glass when they went under, they were working with Eidos, Nintendo and Ubi Soft at the time. Looking Glass pretty much screwed themselves.

    3. Re:EA is all that is wrong in the market by bishiraver · · Score: 1

      While EA isn't good... they aren't the worst, either. I really think that title belongs to Interplay. Agreed that EA having such a large share of the market with (primarily) horrible games is bad, but Interplay's tried and true method of shutting down highly anticipated titles and firing their developers before the holidays is downright satanic.

  10. Not really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    EA may have a large chunk, but independent game developers are producing more and more quality games. www.is3025.com for example. they picked up EA's scraps to fill the gap they left. EA's large market share sucks, but it's far from forbodding.

  11. Experience by leadfoot2004 · · Score: 1

    One thing good about EA is that they have good experience in producing games. In the background, they have a lot of experienced people working behind the games, including sound, well-defined project management qualities. Although they would be seen as an assembly line factory (low innovation, repetitive carbon copy products), it means that we will continue to enjoy mediocre games in relatively on-time delivery. After all, EA will not produce something like 'Duke Nukem Forever'. EA is after volume and mass market -- every popular console + PC and they will never be like Blizzard.

  12. Who Remembers... by DynaSoar · · Score: 1

    ... when Bill "Raster Blaster" Budge joined with the initial EA "Artists"? Their first major ad was "Can a computer make you cry?". They had a vision not uncommon for that time, that computers would change society in some very significant ways, and they intended to be part of that, via gaming.

    It was a lofty but honorable vision. They succeeded somewhat at first, but as business took its toll, EA became more and more a money farm. I'm sure there are still people at EA who would at least claim to hold to that vision, but for the most part, it's become "just another".

    --
    "I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
  13. Huh? by Bluesman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "there's a problem when EA has enough money to buy out any studios that bring out a hit game"

    How is this a problem? Sounds like a huge incentive for people to start a small company and create a truly innovative game.

    I think the trouble is more that there isn't anybody really capable of turning the industry on its head several times over. Game fans really do want more of the same thing over and over, especially the sports fans. Baseball hasn't changed, why should the video game based on it?

    If there really were a market or just a desire for out of the mainstream games, and the talent to produce such games, the open source game efforts wouldn't be so pathetic.

    But it's much easier to sit back and whine about how big corporations have made you jaded than it is to be creative.

    --
    If moderation could change anything, it would be illegal.
    1. Re:Huh? by MMaestro · · Score: 2, Flamebait
      How is this a problem? Sounds like a huge incentive for people to start a small company and create a truly innovative game.

      And whats to stop EA from buying you out? Businesses are businesses. In the real world, businesses can't say "no we won't sell out our soul for millions of dollars and millions more in budgets". Hell look at Bungie. Everyone bitching about Bungie 'selling out' to Microsoft without a thought as to maybe their FINANCIAL SITUATION. Games cost money to make. These are no longer the days when middle age parents can spend time working in their garage working on the next Doom or Ultima.

      If there really were a market or just a desire for out of the mainstream games, and the talent to produce such games, the open source game efforts wouldn't be so pathetic.

      Oh I'd love to create an open source game, but you know what? If I'm not getting paid for it, I'm not doing squat. Welcome to the real world, where people have real jobs, real expenses, and real lives. Theres only 24 hours in a day, and I spend over two-thirds of it going to school, studying and sleeping. The other one-third is spent doing housework, working at my job and reading books from the library. What do YOU do with your time?

    2. Re:Huh? by bugbread · · Score: 1

      You're reading the parent backwards. What he is saying is that people will start small companies and create innovative games in order to get bought out. Start small, make a good product, get bought for a lot of money, live well. And although that studio will no longer be producing innovative games, other companies will try to make innovative and successful games so that they can be bought out as well.

      I'm not saying I agree with the idea, but just noting that you seem to have read the post backwards.

  14. Madden 2005 by obsid1an · · Score: 4, Funny

    class Madden2005: public Madden2004 { // Put new roster in here
    }

  15. Why its bad by quantax · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I will just use the following facts to demonstrate why EA's domination is bad based based on certain dates for Battlefield 1942:

    Sept 11, 2002 : Battlefield 1942 1.1 pre-release patch is released.

    Sept 13, 2002 : Battlefield 1942 is in stores, mMany issues reported making the game anywhere from fully to non-playable depending on your system, even after patching.

    November 15, 2002 : EA announces addon for Battlefield 1942, Road to Rome. Still no patch for many reported issues.

    November 27, 2002 : Patch 1.2 is released finally, fixes a lot of things, but still some issues.

    January 22, 2003 : Road to Rome is gold

    February 3, 2003 : Patch 1.3 is released.

    Im not even going to talk about secret weapons addon, facts are EA had released an addon for a game before they even had their 2nd post-release patch, and thats damn weak. Any company who announces an addon for a game before that game is reasonably patched is rather poor.

    --
    "What can a thoughtful man hope for mankind on Earth, given the experience of the past million years? Nothing." -Bokonon
    1. Re:Why its bad by Nyhm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Large software projects can manage parallel development. Not fixing problems with their product is inexcusable. However, this doesn't mean that have to freeze development on expansions.

      To their internal project management, the two issues may be very separate (e.g., expansion team may be separate from maintenance team). The simplest branching mechanism in a revision control system should facilitate this (except of course MS VSS).

      Does anyone have any inside knowledge on EA project structure?

    2. Re:Why its bad by DerekLyons · · Score: 1
      I will just use the following facts to demonstrate why EA's domination is bad based based on certain dates for Battlefield 1942:
      Over a seven month period, they release a game, and an add-on for it, and three patches... And that's bad? I suggest your standards are somewhat cockeyed.
    3. Re:Why its bad by Kyouryuu · · Score: 1

      I think a better example would have been SimCity 4, a game muddled with countless problems and stability issues that were really only fully addressed in the Rush Hour expansion pack.

    4. Re:Why its bad by The+Evil+Couch · · Score: 3, Insightful
      if you had tried playing Battlefield 1942 single-player before the 1.2 patch, you would have noticed that the AI was horribly inefficient and any game over 16 bots was completely unplayable on anything but the most powerful system. And anything under 16 bots just wasn't any fun.

      factor in the fact that they released an addon BEFORE the 1.2 patch came out and you get the immediate sense that they're in it for the money, rather than for getting a quality product going.

      There were many other bugs that were begging to get fixed, but for me, that was the most noticeable. When an entire mode of gameplay is broken and you're intent on releasing additional content for a fee, it's obvious where your focus is.

    5. Re:Why its bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least they released the game first. Sony announced their SWG expansion a year before SWG actually shipped.

    6. Re:Why its bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While you may not agree with the release schedule of add-ons and patches, you have to admit that BF1942 is an awesome game. I assume you play it, otherwise you wouldn't be interested in the patches and add-ons.

      So EA made a game you like enough to play despite early problems. Doesn't that mean they did a good job on the concept of the game? More specifically, does this not indicate that EA released at least one recent game that is entertaining and enjoyable?

      BF1942 is by far one of my favorite games. I am very glad EA developed and continues its development. I've grown to expect bugs and problems with software. This is especially true of any software that pushes the edge of computing technology. BF1942 is a beast, I admit, but once tamed it has one gigantic hook.

      Should it be like this? No. Bugs and late patches suck. However, EA is far from the only company in the industry that does this, so I find it difficult to call them out specifically on this point.

    7. Re:Why its bad by DerekLyons · · Score: 1
      if you had tried playing Battlefield 1942 single-player before the 1.2 patch, you would have noticed that the AI was horribly inefficient and any game over 16 bots was completely unplayable on anything but the most powerful system. And anything under 16 bots just wasn't any fun.
      The number of bots that constitutes 'fun' is a subjective and emotional measurement, not an objective one.
      factor in the fact that they released an addon BEFORE the 1.2 patch came out and you get the immediate sense that they're in it for the money, rather than for getting a quality product going.
      Anyone who thinks any business exists for any reason other than making money lives in a dream world, plain and simple.
      There were many other bugs that were begging to get fixed, but for me, that was the most noticeable. When an entire mode of gameplay is broken and you're intent on releasing additional content for a fee, it's obvious where your focus is.
      Or, the additional content was already under development or completed, while the game fixes required fixing from a standing start. But thats a simple commonsense explanation, easier just to spout dogma.
    8. Re:Why its bad by The+Evil+Couch · · Score: 1
      Fun is not that subjective when you consider that any map where you're on defense and you only need one or two bots doing something intelligent to win, because the opposing side can't advance because they can't decide whether to look left, straight right, duck, go prone, run or shoot, so they do all them as near simultaneously as possible, acting like crackheads going into withdrawl.

      Virtually all of the maps in Battlefield require either one of two things: superior tactics or suicidal charges. Without the 1.2 patch, the bots lack anything approaching the tactics required to overwhelm the opposition. Without a large amount of bots, you can't lead an effective charge.

      Basically, without the 1.2 patch, single player becomes you versus the bots, instead of you and your bot comrades versus the other bots.

      And it's in a company's best interests to produce quality or at least acceptable products, lest their consumer base disappear. Anyone that thinks otherwise is also living in a dream world, just as plain, just as simple.

      As a direct result of the crappy single player, Battlefield became a LAN only game for me and a good amount of my friends and we skipped picking up the expansions. While I'm not self-righteous enough to say that I struck a blow with my wallet against EA, I'm sure that by having a virtually unplayable single player campaign, they lost a few potential customers of their expansions.

      I'm fully aware that companies are after money. But there's a fine line between being hungry for money and putting forth quality and reaping the rewards.

      Releasing new content when half of the original game is flawed, most certainly shows that they're focused more on money than bug fixes. It is again in the company's best interests to fix major bugs before attracting a new wave of interest in their product, or reviews and word of mouth may highlight the existing problems and drive away potential customers.

      Considering that Road to Rome and 1.2 were released within weeks of each other, it would have been a simple thing to release the two simultaneously, generating both the positive press of forward progress in the engine as well as new content.

    9. Re:Why its bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      YHBT. YHL. HAND.

  16. the other perspective by spir0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    what about those small gaming companies who are struggling and running out of money? they would be stoked to be bought out by EA. They get cash, finish their game, then leave EA and use their money to form another dev studio.

    I'm not saying it's all as easy as that, nor are the contracts likely to allow that in all cases, but that's a small developers dream isn't it?

    There must be some good stories in all these buyouts.

    --
    The reason girls and Windows users don't understand UNIX is because all the documentation is in Man files.
    1. Re:the other perspective by Nohbi · · Score: 1

      Some companies have made it part of their undisclosed business plan to be bought out by the big boys. This means making products good enough to be noticed and acquired but not necessairly displaying their showcase ideas. For startup capital for "the big one" it's not a bad idea, you'll just not get anyone who admits to doing it.

  17. EA's Even Bigger Than Implied by ChrisReid · · Score: 3, Informative

    Only $600 Million before December? EA's much bigger than that. Their fiscal year total is projected to be $3 Billion. http://info.ea.com/pr/pr449.pdf

  18. 20%?!? by b-baggins · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Twenty percent is a dominant market presence? Good grief.

    --
    You can tell a great deal about the character of a man by observing those who hate him.
  19. Could be good, could be bad by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 1
    Lets look at the current situation with the Desert Combat mod for bf1942. Easily the top mod for the game right now, one of the top mods for all FPS right now.

    The developers just signed up with DICE to develope the next version of it for them and have a budge of $500k. I hope they don't charge for it.

    What happens if EA starts buying up all the good mods, and then decides to charge for them?

    Mods used to be the last bastion of free entertainment for many gamers. You had the original game, but there were all the sweet addons which completely rocked your world, for free. What if that world disappears because EA wants to charge for it and buys the good ones?

    --
    Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    1. Re:Could be good, could be bad by will_die · · Score: 1

      They were hired to develop expansion packs so I would expect that the first expansion pack for Battlefield Vietnam will be produced by Desert Combat crew.

  20. EA is hardly a monopoly by LordZardoz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    First, I have nothing against monopolies. However, EA is simply not a Monopoly. They do have competition.

    Nintendo, Sony, Atari(aka Infogrames), Microsoft, THQ, etc, all put out competing proeducts, many of which perform better then EA's games.

    All EA has done is two things. First, they have mastered the art of creating mass market games. Second, they buy up the studios that create the mass market games that they did not create themselves.

    END COMMUNICATION

    1. Re:EA is hardly a monopoly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The more money you have, the less you have to listen to your customers.

      EA cares little about the people who buy their games. Tech Support might as well not have any experience with computers for all the help they usually are, and patches are only issued when there's a serious bug or balance issue.

      And thats just for the MMORPGS they run. EA stopped making great games when they figured out they could just buy the companies that make great games and sell them and slightly different rehashed versions of them.

  21. crappy games, crappy company by paradesign · · Score: 3, Insightful

    EA in my opinion makes crappy games. I havent bought one in over a decade. If EA spent as much time/money developing new game concepts as i does on "expansion packs" i might buy their stuff. But they stick with the tried and true which to me == old and tired. Sure the sims was cool when it first hit, but not nearly as cool as the original "Sim" games. When Maxis was in control SimCity rocked, now it is lacking a soul. EA has a way of extracting the personality out of a game. I like playing games that you can see the developers passion in. Doom is a perfect example, it was made by people, not a bunch of codemonkeys doing the 9-5. Im sure that EA has plenty of talented people working for them, thats not the problem. The company is too big, to "P.C.", and not willing enough to take risks. It would be nice to see them start a trend for once insted of following them.

    --
    I want 2D games back.
  22. EA Promoting Innovation by Pajon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From what I recall, Will Wright said that The Sims was developed and brought to the market because EA came in and bought Maxis.

    When "independent" the stockholders of Maxis were dragging there feet and di not want to invest in Will's newest dollhouse concept. All that changed when EA bought the company. EA bought Maxis because they viewed Will as the great inventor of SimCity. They gave him free reign on his new project, and probably a ton of cash to work on it with. From that buy out they helped create what I theink is one of the most innovative recent games.

    The expacks are probably a light for their heavy cost, but that does not detract at all from the fresh new game type that The Sims brought to the table. It is a highly successful idea spawning multiple games that are trying to emulate it.

    If it weren't for EA, I don't think The Sims games would be around today.

    1. Re:EA Promoting Innovation by wan-fu · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No, originally EA did not want to publish the game after Will Wright showed it to EA executives. When he threatened to walk out, EA wanted to keep the goose that lays the golden eggs and released the Sims. Future versions were of course encouraged by EA.

    2. Re:EA Promoting Innovation by danila · · Score: 1

      Paradoxically, noone tried appealing to the lowest common denominator in the way Sims does it. And so this stupid mainstream game was innovative in some perverse sense, just like the first "some terrible natural disaster happens" movie or "a huge predator animal starts attacking people" move or "monsters from space attack Earth" movie were innovative. :)

      --
      Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
  23. If you're not convinced - LotR Mordor GP by Mirkon · · Score: 1, Funny
    The copy of EGM that landed in my mailbox today had this to say:

    First PSP Screen Shown
    Rings goes racing

    Come November when Sony launches its PlayStation Portable (PSP), you'll be knee-deep in Shire...that is, if you pick up EA Games' Middle-earth-set kart racer tentatively titled The Lord of the Rings: Mordor GP. Scheduled for simultaneous release with the system, the promising racer follows the events of the film as you race on tracks situated all over Tolkien's world--from the hobbits' home to the foot of Mt. Doom. All the major characters from the movie will be playable, each with his own custom vehicle.

    In a related note, VU Games has announced that it too is making a kart racer for Rings, based on the book license, for release around the same time.


    If that doesn't convince you of the problem with EA's market dominance, I don't know what will.
    --
    Glog!
    1. Re:If you're not convinced - LotR Mordor GP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Actually, I got that Issue recently, and EGM is well known for their April Fools jokes (it IS the April issue, after all) even though the magazine is delivered to peoples homes months before. I am pretty sure that announcement is their April Fools joke, and if it is, then that means nothing about EA's market dominance issues right now.

    2. Re:If you're not convinced - LotR Mordor GP by Gothic_Walrus · · Score: 1

      No...but it's an example of what EA can do...and has done before. The fact that people would actually believe this is not a good thing...

      --
      Goo goo g'joob.
    3. Re:If you're not convinced - LotR Mordor GP by Mirkon · · Score: 1

      Dear sweet Gunpei, I hope so.

      --
      Glog!
  24. Headline Structure - Worse? by M.C.+Hampster · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    n/t

    --
    Forget the whales - save the babies.
  25. EA and MS Don't play well together on XBLive by GizmoS · · Score: 1

    XBox systems may have better hardware specs than GC and PS2 systesm, but EA titles on the XBox fail to include internet playability through XBox Live. It is interesting to see MS and EA duke it out about XBox Live; the arguements on both sides are interesting and compelling.

    Just the same, I don't feel like shelling out my hard earned cash for EA's XBox titles for products that include internet play on the PS2 platform... especially since the XBox title is often similarly priced to the PS2 counterpart. To me, this is less gaming value for the same price.

    I hope that MS and EA work out the problem. I also hope XBox Live users spend their gaming dollar wisely.

    This can get ugly, but perhaps a little marketing pressure (boycott) could help- it will either drive EA from the XBox platform altogether (bad for both EA, Microsoft, and consumers) or EA and Microsoft will need work out a solution.

    Until then, I can't buy into less gaming value for the same price.

    1. Re:EA and MS Don't play well together on XBLive by zero_offset · · Score: 1

      That's because EA is a Sony Playstation shop, and their games show it. The graphics are crap on the XBox, just like almost every other PS2-port. Not that their games (ignoring the graphics) have been very interesting lately anyway.

      --

      Slashdot quality declines as the number of hot grits posts decreases. - Provolt's Law, Apr-09-2005

  26. As opposed to Ubisoft by pommiekiwifruit · · Score: 1
    Who insist that their developers must never work again if they foolishly attempt to leave "the firm".

    I love Prince of Persia but thinking that it was developed with slave labour makes me uneasy.

  27. Activision by pommiekiwifruit · · Score: 1
    Ah, here we go, from Activisions site the company name/intellectual property was bought by BKH corporation in 1991.

    However, the current crop of stuff from them (e.g. extreme sports games) is quite good too.

  28. EA domination - through branding deals (NASCAR) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sierra published the excellent Papyrus NASCAR racing simulators for years, their last one in 2003 (2003 Season). In this series, EA until today is way behind (it's not NFS, it's a *simulation*!) in terms of feeling and multiplayer quality, even with their 2004 version (I have both). So what did EA last year? Locked out Sierra through an exclusivity deal ($$$) with the NASCAR brand. IMO, that's the typical wannabe-monopolist behaviour. The market gets streamlined, mass products instead of diversity and quality.