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Feds Reject Eolas Browser Plug-In Patent

theodp writes "The USPTO has issued a preliminary decision invalidating Eolas' claim to Web browser technology central to a case against Microsoft, which could save the software giant more than half a billion dollars in damages. If upheld, this also means Microsoft will not be required to make changes that would have crippled IE's ability to work with plug-ins like QuickTime and Flash. Eolas has 60 days to respond to the decision. The USPTO has only invalidated 151 patents out of nearly 4 million patents awarded since 1988."

269 comments

  1. So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by Trillan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I still can't believe that a trivial use of cookies managed to get patented. I suppose this is inevitable when the patent office is run as a for-profit center.

    1. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I can't believe that out of 4 million patents, only 151 of them were been invalidated since 1988. Scary.

    2. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      That's not surprising. They're not issued arbitrarily. The fact that it's issued at all means there wasn't prior art to prevent issue.

    3. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually just recently that patent was rejected, too.

    4. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by sjbrown · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Hope for One-Click to get thrown out? No, I don't think so.

      The lesson here is that the patent office is on the side of large corporations with billions of dollars. Don't hold your breath that AOL/TW's patent will be invalidated just because many independant web developers can see that it's trivial.

    5. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh really? How about something as ancient as the dildo? Prior art dates a LONG way back.

    6. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately, patent reexaminations aren't being accepted for the time being. (See text towards bottom of the linked page)

    7. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by Ulven · · Score: 1

      Are you serious?

    8. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by October_30th · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I bet he also believes that if you're standing trial you're bound to be guilty.

      After all, if you were innocent in the first place you wouldn't have to be tried. That would, after all, mean that one could not rely on the police.

      --
      The owls are not what they seem
    9. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, why bother until someone tries to use them?

      Maybe this just means that only 151 of the stupid patents we all laugh at have been put to use against someone.

    10. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You really don't know shit about patents do you? Read the fucking patent and you will see its for more than a simple dildo.

    11. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by rollingcalf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "I can't believe that out of 4 million patents, only 151 of them were been invalidated since 1988. Scary."

      And I can't believe that as many as 4 million patents have been granted since 1988. Scary.

      There can't have been that many actual inventions in the last 16 years. Probably not even in the last 16 decades.

      --
      ---------
      There is inferior bacteria on the interior of your posterior.
    12. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by thomkt · · Score: 1

      I can't believe that there have been 4 million patents filed and approved since 1988.

    13. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The only prior art that the patent office looks for is an existing patent in their database.

    14. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by PierceLabs · · Score: 3, Informative

      There is a common misconception that patents == inventions which simply isn't the case. You patent a method for doing something AND that something doesn't even have to be truly useful to anyone (hard to prove utility) or work.

      As such it doesn't really surprise me. Heck there are multiple patents for ketchup dispensers :)

    15. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by kfg · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In the words of Susan McDougal, "God help you if you're innocent."

      The guilty have bargaining chips. Some so many that they can trade their way out of jail.

      The innocent have nothing, and if convicted garner harsh, retributional sentences for failing to "repent" that which they did not do.

      But hey, at least nearly anybody can swear out a criminal complaint against anybody, so what are the odds that you will ever face a criminal charge, eh? To hell with relying on the police, how about your wife/girlfriend. . . while you're breaking up, can you rely on her not "get even"?

      KFG

    16. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by rollingcalf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "There is a common misconception that patents == inventions which simply isn't the case. You patent a method for doing something AND that something doesn't even have to be truly useful to anyone (hard to prove utility) or work."

      The point of my post was exactly that patents != inventions, which is why there are so many. My point is also that patents should be limited to actual useful inventions.

      When patents are granted for trivial steps in a process or trivial items, they can prevent others from building full-fledged working inventions because the would-be inventor of the more complex and useful device now has to tangle with 50 different patent holders who each have a claim on some minor aspects of the proposed creation. Had those trivial patents not been granted, the stuff they describe likely would have been created anyway as a natural part of building the more complex and useful invention.

      --
      ---------
      There is inferior bacteria on the interior of your posterior.
    17. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by cyborch · · Score: 1

      as rollingcalf says: patents SHOULD only be granted to inventions. The purpose of the patent law is to further invention in business, not hinder it. If I invent something I would like to be able to harvest the fruits of my invention without fear of copycats. THAT is what invention is for, NOT for purposely stopping other people's already existing products. Like Microsoft's patent on scripts in XML documents (I might have misread the patent and the wording might be different and therefore have different consequences, but stay with me while I use this patent as an example, there are others like it), I have lots of XML documents (XHTML to be exact, but that is just one form of XML) which have inline scripting, microsoft DID NOT invent the concept of scripts inside XML documents, therefore they SHOULD NOT be granted a patent on that technology. Even if I misread that specific patent and it wasn't at all about scripts inside XML documents there are still lots of similar examples. Patents should be used to encourage invention, not hinder existing products. Anyone who can show prior art should be able to invalidate any patent at will. That should relieve us of much of this patent madness.

    18. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by pyrrhonist · · Score: 1
      I can't believe that out of 4 million patents, only 151 of them were been invalidated since 1988. Scary.

      That's because if your patent gets rejected, you can appeal by taking the patent office to court. If you have a business case for the patent, you're pretty much guaranteed to win this appeal. Not only does this cost the patent office a lot, but it causes trouble for the clerks that rejected the patent. Thus, the patent office is better off accepting every patent. In this case, Microsoft is so large, the wrath of Eolas would be far less than Microsoft's, so they rejected Eolas' patent.

      --
      Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
    19. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by KD5YPT · · Score: 1

      Then that patent (specifically the XML script patents) won't hold up in court, since the lawyer (don't like them, but like government, they're a necessary evil) should be able to dig up precedences that Microsoft themselves did not invent scripting in XML.

      --
      In US, you can easily buy enough major firearms to wipe out your neighbourhood but a few little fireworks are banned.
    20. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by KD5YPT · · Score: 1

      Hm... let's bring an anti-trust suite against the patent office.. something about anti-competitive practices or something.

      --
      In US, you can easily buy enough major firearms to wipe out your neighbourhood but a few little fireworks are banned.
    21. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by abandonment · · Score: 1

      you forget that they allow patents for ridiculous things like the dna structure for 'wheat' and other common food groups. foods that have existed naturally for thousands of years are being patented and locked away to be sold for a profit. companies like monsato and other monstrosities are to blame, and the patent office bends over for them regularly. when life itself becomes patentable, the system is much more broken than it seems at first glance.

    22. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't believe that out of 4 million patents, only 151 of them were been invalidated since 1988. Scary.

      From an inventor's perspective, 151 is 151 too many!

      Just hope and pray if you ever legitimately invent something and the USPTO accepts it as UNIQUE and NOT OBVIOUS, then you buy a house, car, etc. that a large company like Microsoft can not take it all and your earnings for the next 2 thousand years because of the incompetence of a USPTO employee!

    23. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by antic · · Score: 1

      Wow, between the scary Banryu dragon security robot and this scary issue of patents, much of the slashdot population seems to be absolutely terrified!

      Either that, or quite inclined to over-use the word "scary"...

      --
      'Thats they exact same thing a banana wrench monkey.'
    24. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by wavedeform · · Score: 2, Informative
      Yes but the patent office's search for prior art is a joke. It pretty much only searches other prior patents, and maybe a few publications. An example:

      Company A invents something, then ships code that embodies that invention for a few years.

      Company B then tries to patent the same invention. Because Company A never patented its invention, it's unlikely that Company A's prior art will be found when the Patent Office searches for prior art on Company B's patent application.

      (and yes, I know that only individuals can patent things, and not companies)

    25. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by iminplaya · · Score: 1

      ...has to tangle with 50 different patent holders who each have a claim on some minor aspects of the proposed creation...

      Very well put. You have just explained why we are probably 50 years or more behind where we should be. Far too many people believe patents were intended to promote innovation when just the opposite has been happening all along. Computers and the net have made it much more obvious now.

      --
      What?
    26. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by MegaFur · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The point of my post was exactly that patents != inventions, which is why there are so many. My point is also that patents should be limited to actual useful inventions.

      Okay, now we both know that, for some of these frivolous patents to be getting through, the patent clerks must obviously be stupid, but...

      Your condition that "patents should be limited to actual useful inventions," strikes me as incredibly impractical. I challenge you to spontaneously tell me which ideas I present to you are "actual useful inventions" and which ones aren't. Besides, why should that be the criteria?

      Perhaps the criteria that would make more sense in a capatilist world would be: ideas that are most likely to make money. Note that this is not the same as "useful". Example: is a 4th of July sparkler really useful? No, but if someone held a patent on it, they could make quite a bit of money.

      Of course, it's not always easy to tell what ideas would make money and which ones wouldn't either. If it were, then people that invest in things like that wouldn't be called venture capitalists, and the practice of investing in those things wouldn't be known as speculation.

      In summary: nothing is for certain. So how the hell are you, as a patent clerk, going to tell which ideas are the ones that represent "actual useful inventions" and which ones are the ones that only might become "actual useful invetions"?

      :-P :-)

      --
      Furry cows moo and decompress.
    27. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by jelle · · Score: 1

      "Your condition that "patents should be limited to actual useful inventions," strikes me as incredibly impractical." "Besides, why should that be the criteria?"

      I believe the original poster meant that the patent should be an invention, not just something that many people can think up when they sit down for it.

      Practicality is irrelevant. The patent grants a right to the (quoted) 'Inventors'. Yes, the people granted a right under patent law are not the 'patent filers', 'lawywer', 'engineer', 'designer', or whatever, no they chose to use the term inventor for a reason.

      The law also has a method of establishing the difference between an incremental trick, and inventions, by the nonobviousness test in the requirements for patents. That means that the patent must be considered non obvious by specialists in the field. Now that is where practicality comes in: The USPTO doesn't check for nonobviousness.

      But that doesn't mean it's impossible to do it right.

      --
      --- Hindsight is 20/20, but walking backwards is not the answer.
    28. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cucumber, meet microwave (or container of water on cooking fire - or just a sunny day on the vine).

      ObTangent: did you know cucumbers are banned from sale in some parts of Egypt? The same ones that would prefer female genital mutilation. A wife shouldn't receive sexual pleasure if it's not from her husband (and preferably, not even then).

    29. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by rollingcalf · · Score: 1

      'Your condition that "patents should be limited to actual useful inventions," strikes me as incredibly impractical. I challenge you to spontaneously tell me which ideas I present to you are "actual useful inventions" and which ones aren't. Besides, why should that be the criteria?'

      A person applying for a patent is making a very strong and far-reaching statement. Essentially they are claiming that none of the other six billion people in the world have created what they have, and that no other expert in the field would naturally create it when faced with the same problem.

      By law patents are supposed to be useful and nonobvious; by definition such criteria are inherently subjective. But because of the blatant statement the patent applicant is making against the rest of the human race, a statement that cannot be proved but can only be disproved, and because of the restrictions a patent places on other people's freedoms, the burden of proof should be on the patent applicant to demonstrate what it is useful for and make an impressive case for the nonobviousness.

      Such strict conditions will undoubtedly result in mistakenly denied patents; however, mistakenly granted patents cause much more harm than those mistakenly denied. A denied patent does not inherently prevent the creator from building and marketing the item or process; numerous complex and useful things are created and sold without the seller ever having held a patent on it (in fact it is often the case that somebody else has a patent on it but they don't know). However, mistakenly granted patents do have the likely effect of stopping things from being built, especially when the patent holder has no intention or means of building something but only plans to use it as a weapon or leaves it dormant for its chilling effect.

      --
      ---------
      There is inferior bacteria on the interior of your posterior.
    30. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by jamesh · · Score: 1

      The theory of the patent system is that I (as some giant corporation) can invest many years and millions of dollars in R&D and then protect the fruits of my labour for a reasonable period to get a return on my investment, without fear that the idea will be 'ripped off' by someone else. Whether it's a tangible 'invention' or not.

      Without the patent system, where is the incentive for R&D from a profit perspective?

      This is the dilema with medical research. On the one hand, what is the incentive for corporations to do medical research if they can't guarantee a roi? But on the other, their discovery could cure cancer/aids/halitosis/etc and (imho) should be made available for anyone to use.

      Anyway, somewhere along the way the original reason for the patent system got lost though, and patents are being granted for all sorts of rubbish that people have come up with whilst in the shower.

    31. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And this is why patents expire. Who knows in 40 somthing years we might be able to compile are own version of win98. The question is whos going to want to. By then we'll have computers that fly =)

    32. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by fearofcarpet · · Score: 1

      Reading these posts I get the feeling that not many of you have actually filed a patent. When we make a new molecule, the structure is patented. Is it because it is a useful invention? No, it is because we worked hard to make it. If someone does use it to create something profitable, we get to take a cut and that is all the patent guarentees.

      In fact, the purpose of patents is to enable ideas to be made public to further the progress of technology while protecting the inventors (and the people who funded them) from the theft of their work.The details of all patents are published in paper and on the web 1 (or 2 I can't remember) years after being filed. This is typically before the patent is even granted (this takes 2-3 years).

      Without patents inventors would use the "trade secrets" classification for every useful invention (this is what has kept the recipe to Coke a secret for the better part of the 20th century) becuase they never expire and they do not require publication. Otherwise people would steal their ideas and profit from them (read: Microsoft). This is the purpose of the USPTO: to facilitate the sharing of knowledge while protecting the invenstments made to aquire that knowledge.

      --
      Actually, I wrote my thesis on life experience.
    33. Re:So I guess there isn't much hope for One Click? by irokie · · Score: 1

      So how the hell are you, as a patent clerk, going to tell which ideas are the ones that represent "actual useful inventions" and which ones are the ones that only might become "actual useful invetions"?

      particularly since most patent clerks spend their time wondering about the motions of heavenly bodies at great speed.....

      --
      and if you see me strut, remind me of what left this outlaw torn...
  2. Now for more by redune45 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Hopefully they'll keep it up. And start rejecting more of those stupidly obvious patents.

    --
    redune.com: The World 3.2 Megapixels at a time
    1. Re:Now for more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Can holders of patents that are subsequently invalidated sue the US Patent Office for lack of due diligence in granting the patent?

    2. Re:Now for more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They've done 141 out of 4 million, so there's a lot more they *could* be doing, sadly. Or so it would appear...

      --
      2004-03-06 02:44:05 Eolas Patent Invalidated (articles,microsoft) (rejected)

    3. Re:Now for more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      2004-03-06 02:44:05 Eolas Patent Invalidated (articles,microsoft) (rejected)

      Get over it. It happens all the time and seems to depend on the editors' moods.

    4. Re:Now for more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They pander to certain people, and not first submit, first served.

    5. Re:Now for more by gnuman99 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The question is "Can you sue the US Patent Office for stifling competition when they granted stupid patents?" eg. Amazon's one-click patent, XML pending patent, patenting *my* DNA, etc..

    6. Re:Now for more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Funny thing, you can't sue the federal government, at least as a private citizen. I don't know if states are allowed to. You could sue someone in the federal government, though. That's why you usually have lawsuits against John Ashcroft, instead of the Department of Justice. The government is free to sue you, though. Hence all those cases which are United States v. .

    7. Re:Now for more by cyborch · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You people (americans) gotta stop this sueing. Can't you see that you are ruining your own legal system? Can't you see that you are ruining a lot of things for yourselves? Stop and think about consequences for one second. If you sue McDonald's about hot coffee all you will get is lukewarm coffee. Stop sueing eachother and start thinking for yourselves god dammit! If you pour hot coffee into your own lap you WILL get burnt! That does not mean that hot coffee is a bad thing, it means that you should be more careful. Please stop sueing and start thinking!

    8. Re:Now for more by siphi · · Score: 0

      mod parent up "cyborch". I read before that a robber sued a family, because he got locked into their garage when robbing their house. He won, and the family had to pay him.

      --
      Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
    9. Re:Now for more by KD5YPT · · Score: 1

      Not trying to start a flame or something, but think the problem is that as the situation goes for now, the only way anyone can get anyone else to pay attention is to bring a big fat lawsuit against someone (or corporation if they got a lot of guts). Granted, suing because you (not referring to you, cyborch) got burn by hot coffee is stupid (hello?! HOT coffee burns! OR HAVE YOU DROP OUT OF ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?). But sometimes, lawsuit is the only way... except some other illegal means like killing, arson, vandalism, or etc...

      --
      In US, you can easily buy enough major firearms to wipe out your neighbourhood but a few little fireworks are banned.
    10. Re:Now for more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hopefully they'll keep it up. And start rejecting more of those stupidly obvious patents.

      You must be an American. The rest of the world doesn't want OBVIOUS applications approved in the first place! After all, after PRIOR ART, isn't OBVIOUSNESS the second test? (And it doesn't stop there either)

  3. Finally... by clifgriffin · · Score: 3, Funny

    A consumer oriented decision in this case. Web developers and users everywhere should start clapping.

    I'll be the first.

    *clap*

    1. Re:Finally... by Cheeze · · Score: 1

      *clap clap clap*

      Win one for those crappy flash animations.

      /sarcasm

      --
      Why read the article when I can just make up a snap judgement?
    2. Re:Finally... by lee7guy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why should we celebrate the demise of one of the few sw patents that really show the right people how ridiculous sw patents really are?

      --
      Ceterum censeo Microsoftem esse delendam
    3. Re:Finally... by DrSkwid · · Score: 1


      yea, let's hear it for inline executeables

      crackers everywhere can resume clapping

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    4. Re:Finally... by DavidNWelton · · Score: 1

      The Eolas people never said that they would require that anything other than IE would have to not use their patents, or even have to pay anything to them. They were going after MS and IE.

    5. Re:Finally... by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      Even better that this patent got invalidated then. THeres nothing worse than bad ethics and morals.

    6. Re:Finally... by Xenographic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well.. are you sure about that?

      I will agree that they did the right thing here--I don't think that that patent ever should have been granted.

      However, I fear that the reexamination was triggered by Microsoft's many lawyers and massive amounts of cash, rather than any sudden desire for the USPTO to be more consumer-oriented...

      What was that figure? They've only reexamined 141 out of 4+ million patents? I'd be willing to guess that there are quite a few other patents out there that never should have been granted...

    7. Re:Finally... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and bush never said he would abolish citizens rights. right. welcome to the real world, where people can and will lie to you for little or no apparent reason.

    8. Re:Finally... by DavidNWelton · · Score: 1

      My original post came out kind of garbled:-) But what's wrong with trying to make a buck off of Microsoft? That was their target, not open source projects. As long as we have the current patent system in place, I don't see what's wrong with using it against huge corporations. They wouldn't hesitate to use it against individuals.

    9. Re:Finally... by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      The point is is that if Eolas had stated that they were going after Mozilla for compliance and not MS with IE, you wouldnt still be taking that view. As for corporations not hesitating to use it against individuals, fair enough. But for all the patents IBM, Apple, MS, Sun, Oracle etc etc hold, how many opensource projects have become victims of patent lawsuits?

    10. Re:Finally... by prshaw · · Score: 1

      > They wouldn't hesitate to use it against individuals

      Has MS ever used their patents against an individual? I know they have a few patents sitting there, but I don't even recall them using one of them for anything other then defense.

    11. Re:Finally... by prshaw · · Score: 1

      >> They've only reexamined 141

      I think was "invalidated" not "reexamined", and the count was 151. They probably reexamined many more and let them stand.

    12. Re:Finally... by pyrrhonist · · Score: 1
      Web developers and users everywhere should start clapping.

      To show support, I will now clap using only one hand!

      Done! Now contemplate the sound of one hand clapping.

      --
      Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
  4. Good news, bad news by jimbolaya · · Score: 5, Interesting
    This is good news, bad news for Microsoft.

    [this] could save the software giant more than half a billion dollars in damages

    That's the good news.

    Microsoft will not be required to make changes that would have crippled IE's ability to work with plug-ins like QuickTime and Flash.

    That's the bad news.

    --

    There ain't no rules here; we're trying to accomplish something.

    1. Re:Good news, bad news by Helvick · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The other good news is that the W3C's submission demonstrating that this should have been nullified due to prior art seem to have been listened to.

    2. Re:Good news, bad news by AIX-Hood · · Score: 2, Funny

      Maybe I'm missing something.. why is it bad news if a wonderful feature of IE gets to live on?

    3. Re:Good news, bad news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll bet you couldn't keep a straight face while you typed that.

    4. Re:Good news, bad news by jimbolaya · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's bad news for Microsoft because they'd surely love it if, for instance, Quicktime were crippled, forcing users to use only Windows Media.

      --

      There ain't no rules here; we're trying to accomplish something.

    5. Re:Good news, bad news by reso · · Score: 1

      Because IE would be the first to get hit. It's not a feature of only IE, almost all Web browsers use this feature. Because developers would have to waste a lot of theirs and their clients time and money. Dumb*ss.

      I use Safari (La-dee-da) btw

      --


    6. Re:Good news, bad news by AIX-Hood · · Score: 1

      The author is saying that it's bad news that Microsoft got a favorable verdict. Your response seems to show you think the opposite.

    7. Re:Good news, bad news by HiThere · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Except that since the beneficiary is MS, one is left with the suspicion that political pull had more to do with the decision that the relevant facts.

      There are lots of invalid patents that are let stand merely because they don't annoy anyone powerful. Is this one genuinely invalid under law? IANAL. So all I can do is notice that if one guessed ahead of time based on political pull, one would have come to the correct answer. And that this method of estimating the decision often works.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    8. Re:Good news, bad news by reso · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "The author is saying that it's bad news that Microsoft got a favorable verdict. Your response seems to show you think the opposite."

      That's shortsighted reasoning thinking of this as a 'win' for microsh*t. Our we all naive enough to think that MS can't buy themselves out of most situations that affect them in a negative fashion?

      This is a win for web developers and other browser makers.

      --


    9. Re:Good news, bad news by hawaiian717 · · Score: 1

      IE with an ugly workaround makes it that much easier to convince people to try Mozilla or Opera.

      --
      End of Line.
    10. Re:Good news, bad news by siphi · · Score: 0

      Paranoid androids...

      --
      Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
    11. Re:Good news, bad news by siphi · · Score: 0

      our we all naive???? I think you mean. "Are we all naive"

      --
      Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
    12. Re:Good news, bad news by KD5YPT · · Score: 1

      All should switch to FireFox if they do that, only crashed on me once, and that's when i was screwing around with it's configuration (still haven't figure out what I did wrong).

      --
      In US, you can easily buy enough major firearms to wipe out your neighbourhood but a few little fireworks are banned.
    13. Re:Good news, bad news by gabebear · · Score: 1

      While I'm happy the US courts were sane, Microsoft has already stopped all plugin support except for ActiveX crap. I'm sure it was because ActiveX is sooooooo secure, you can even write a virus scanner that runs in your browser, sheesh.
      "Surfing the web with IE is like screwing without a condom" -somebody

    14. Re:Good news, bad news by mingot · · Score: 1

      Quicktime is crippled. Crippled by its developers, whose skill levels seem to be at or below that of first year students. First year of high school.

    15. Re:Good news, bad news by Threni · · Score: 1

      > IE with an ugly workaround makes it that much easier to convince people to try
      > Mozilla or Opera.

      Huh. It'll probably just be a pop-up that says `do you want to download and run some free software` every few weeks, rather than having it included in the base product. Big deal.

  5. Well Duh . . . by Xthlc · · Score: 0, Insightful

    The more money you have, the more likely it is that the USPTO will invalidate inconvenient patents for you.

    1. Re:Well Duh . . . by bc90021 · · Score: 1

      I was thinking that too... how many clerks in the PTO aren't going to be worrying about their mortgages for the next year?

    2. Re:Well Duh . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      No, the greater impact it has I would imagine. IE is everywhere, it affects Mozilla and EVERY browser.

    3. Re:Well Duh . . . by NateOS · · Score: 1

      my thoughts exactly... kinda "convenient" for microsoft. what if it was a rediculous patent used against anybody else... i seriously doubt *it* would get overturned

    4. Re:Well Duh . . . by servoled · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You have any proof to back this statement up? Or are you just making conclusions based on the very limited amount of information given in this story and your preconceptions about corrupt governments that you heard about once on TV?

      --
      "I have a porkchop, you have a porkchop. I have a veal, you have a veal".
    5. Re:Well Duh . . . by CrazyDuke · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's called experience. If a guy breaks into my house 3 times and I catch him, then I get broke into again with the same MO, but I don't catch him red handed this time, I'd strongly suspect it was the same guy. Even if I don't have "solid" proof.

      And as the judge enformed me when I went in for jury duty, circumstantial evidence IS legally admissable evidence.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced influence is indistinguishable from control.
    6. Re:Well Duh . . . by servoled · · Score: 4, Insightful

      correlation does not imply causation

      Just because Microsoft has money, and this patent has initially been rejected (though the finality of that rejection remains to be seen), does not mean that Microsoft's money had anything to do with that rejection.

      Plus, even under your analogy, both you and the parent poster have failed to show any track record of this type of ruling happening in the past which has been effected by the amount of money the winning party had availible.

      So, I ask again: What evidence is this conclusion based on?

      --
      "I have a porkchop, you have a porkchop. I have a veal, you have a veal".
    7. Re:Well Duh . . . by Gumshoe · · Score: 2, Interesting
      It's called experience. If a guy breaks into my house 3 times and I catch him, then I get broke into again with the same MO, but I don't catch him red handed this time, I'd strongly suspect it was the same guy. Even if I don't have "solid" proof.

      And as the judge enformed me when I went in for jury duty, circumstantial evidence IS legally admissable evidence.


      You make it sound as though you've been told differently by someone :-) Circumstantial evidence is any evidence that doesn't come from an eyewitness or from another direct participant in the case, so of course it's admissable. It would be an unusual legal system that didn't allow such evidence to be admitted. However, whether or not you can convict on circumstantial evidence alone depends very much on the case and the nature and quantity of the circumstantial evidence. In your example I would doubt that the similarity of the MO alone would be enough to convict.

      To bring it back on topic, I question the original assertion that MS has somehow has bought the overturning of the browser patent because there is no MO (MS haven't successfully overturned a patent before and there's certainly no evidence that they've ever payed off the Patent Office). In other words, there isn't even circumstantial evidence! No, the only evidence here is a formed from personal opinion and as I'm sure your friendly judge would have told you, that *isn't* admissable.
    8. Re:Well Duh . . . by Eloquence · · Score: 1

      Ah, the impermeable naivete of the average techie. It gives them that aura of child-like innocence.

    9. Re:Well Duh . . . by max+born · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But money must have an influence somewhere along the line. Otherwise, why would corporations make financial contributions in the first place.

      Take, for example, the DMCA. In the two year period after the DMCA was introduced to Congress, the entertainment industry's campaign contributions doubled to 18 million dolloars. Why? To get the the DMCA passed.

      If you've ever listened to the LBJ Tapes on C-SPAN, you'll know that Washington is a closely knit community, a few phone calls by the right people can do wonders. This is not a conspiracy, just a few politicians expressing an opinion on something and saying "I don't think such a such would be a good idea because ....." and reasoning it out and then setting the tone for policy.

      A large part of government funding comes from corporate taxes. For the government not to be influenced by the weight and power of these companies is difficult for some of us to believe.

      I think that's the point that's being made here.

      Max

    10. Re:Well Duh . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody gives a shit whether you get proof or not, nor about your made-up "analysis" of the OP. Get a fucking clue...

    11. Re:Well Duh . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We say again, no one cares about what you are asking, whether you get your precious "evidence", or your bogus "logic".

      Get it? No one cares about your BS.

    12. Re:Well Duh . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No kidding.

      Where do people get off believing that the law plays favorites. Democracy, Freedom, and all that. Just doesn't happen.

    13. Re:Well Duh . . . by kelnos · · Score: 1

      no, correlation does not imply causation, but i don't think that's the issue here.

      fact: corporations with money have been able to unfairly influence the government in the past.
      fact: the USPTO reexamines and rejects an insignificantly small number of patents.
      fact: microsoft, in the past, has thrown its weight around when they've wanted things out of the gov't.

      no, this isn't a ringing indictment, but i think it's suspicious enough to warrant some amount of skepticism that all this may not have been totally on the level.

      --
      Xfce: Lighter than some, heavier than others. Just right.
    14. Re:Well Duh . . . by kcbrown · · Score: 1
      To bring it back on topic, I question the original assertion that MS has somehow has bought the overturning of the browser patent because there is no MO (MS haven't successfully overturned a patent before and there's certainly no evidence that they've ever payed off the Patent Office).

      No MO? Are you kidding? This is the first time I know of that Microsoft was staring at a half a billion dollar patent judgement against them. How is that not an MO for doing whatever they can to get the patent invalidated??

      --
      Use 'slashdot stuff' in the subject line in any email you send me if you want to get past the spam filter.
    15. Re:Well Duh . . . by servoled · · Score: 1

      I am guessing you don't know what MO actually means, so heres a link: Modus Operandi

      --
      "I have a porkchop, you have a porkchop. I have a veal, you have a veal".
    16. Re:Well Duh . . . by MacDork · · Score: 1
      Just because Microsoft has money, and this patent has initially been rejected (though the finality of that rejection remains to be seen), does not mean that Chewbacca came from Endor. Listen people, Ewoks are short and stumpy. Chewbacca may be hairy but he's really tall, therefore Chewbaca must be a Wookie. If Chewbacca is a Wookie, then Microsoft's money has absolutely nothing to do with this. What does Chewbaca have to do with this. Absolutely 100% nothing to do with this.

      ;-)

  6. Microsoft's Response by Liselle · · Score: 4, Informative

    Remember back when this story first broke, and Microsoft was set to add pop-up confirmation to IE in order to get around the EOLAS issue? That was supposed to happen earlier this year, but there was an update posted at the end of January for those of you who might have missed it.

    --
    Auto-reply to ACs: "Truly, you have a dizzying intellect."
  7. IE changes already there by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In SP2 they changed their plugin interface a bit (now they are Add-Ons?). Wasn't that done to avoid this issue?

    1. Re:IE changes already there by GarfBond · · Score: 1

      No, that was done because Mozilla Firefox already brough 'extensions' to the table. IE is playing catch-up.

    2. Re:IE changes already there by steve_l · · Score: 1

      I believe they changed IE to stop whining when you have ActiveX disabled and the web page wants to download something. I cannot confirm that fact, even though I am on the SP2 beta program. Not for NDA reasons, but because mozilla firefox runs on XP SP2 so well...

  8. Microsoft and those politicians by segment · · Score: 4, Informative
    I guess it does pay to lobby...
    Judge Kollar-Kotelly heard that total donations to political donations from Microsoft and its employees to political parties, candidates and PACs in the 2000 election cycle amounted to more than $6.1 million. During this period, Microsoft and its executives accounted for $2.3 million in soft money contributions, compared to $1.55 million by Enron and its executives for the same period. Soft money is the term generally given to unregulated corporate and individual contributions that cannot go directly to candidates, but which typically goes to political parties. USA: Microsoft's Lobbying Efforts Eclipse Enron

    If anyone really thinks these kinds of issues don't affect the outcome of things, I seriously think you need to do your research. Of course it's unethical, but you name one business that hasn't done something unethical for the sake of their company.

    1. Re:Microsoft and those politicians by eddy · · Score: 1

      > Of course it's unethical, but you name one business that hasn't done something unethical for the sake of their company.

      Why, that's easy... SCO!

      They wouldn't do anything unethical because they have these rules, you know.

      --
      Belief is the currency of delusion.
    2. Re:Microsoft and those politicians by hikerhat · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Microsoft was politically agnostic and never contributed to political campaigns until the US government brought the anti-trust suit against them. They've been one of the number one contributors ever since. Bush pretty much put the anti-trust trial on ice as soon as he walked into office. Microsoft, a relatively young company, learned what most other big companies already know - political contributions are a necessary cost of doing business in the US. They could have saved themselves the cost of ever having an anti-trust trial brought against them at all if they would have learned that lesson earlier.

      They won't make that mistake again. Here are the top contributors to Bush's 2004 campaign. Microsoft is in the top 20.

      Microsft isn't listed as a top contributor to Kerry's campaign, but they are listed as a top contributor to Dean's campaign, so I guess they bet on the wrong horse there.

    3. Re:Microsoft and those politicians by thewiz · · Score: 3, Informative
      If anyone really thinks these kinds of issues don't affect the outcome of things, I seriously think you need to do your research. Of course it's unethical, but you name one business that hasn't done something unethical for the sake of their company.

      There's one that immediately comes to mind: Malden Mills, the company that invented Polartec. Here's a little snippet about the president and owner from their website:
      After a devastating fire destroyed the mill in December 1995, Aaron Feuerstein, president and owner of Malden Mills(R) and grandson of the founder, garnered international acclaim and awards for his decision to rebuild a state-of-the-art, environmentally friendly facility in the same location. In a display of commitment to the community and employees, Mr. Feuerstein continued to compensate his staff during the rebuilding process.

      Had a chance to meet this gentleman and he is a very down-to-earth guy. Honest, truthful, caring - all the things I'd like in a boss.
      --
      If "disco" means "I learn" in Latin, does "discothèque" mean "I learn technology"?
    4. Re:Microsoft and those politicians by tyen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You have cause and effect in this situation backwards when you refer to companies paying political contributions and say,

      Of course it's unethical...

      What is unethical is a citizenry who has no moral qualms with using the force of government to compel other citizens to pay for wants they don't want to pay for themselves out of their own pockets. Once that camel's nose is in the tent, it's all over because you have ceded your sovereign power to a politician. That power is used to extort large companies to pay political contributions as the cost of doing business. And that power is very, very difficult for citizens to reclaim. Historical record tells us it is rarely reclaimed without bloodshed, and unfortunately, the citizens proceed to almost immediately cede it away from themselves again.

      Take away the politican's power to extort and you will diminish companies' incentive to seek out access to that power, simply to protect themselves from harrassment if nothing else. We never receive the government we need or want, but the government we deserve.

    5. Re:Microsoft and those politicians by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just one of millions, but you have to start somewhere. Kudos to him and everyone like him!

    6. Re:Microsoft and those politicians by k_head · · Score: 1

      Interesting. So you are basically saying that MS bribed themselves out of the antitrust suit.

      The odd thing is that almost everybody agrees that MS broke the law and used anti competitive tactics and yet the bribes allowed them to escape punishment.

      Sad.

      --
      The best way to support the US war effort is to continue buying American products.
  9. I'm siding with Microsoft ... by d00ber · · Score: 5, Funny


    ... on this one.

    ...Agghhhh... Can't breathe... ..

    This patent for browser plugins should have been shot down. All browsers (and many other apps) use this idea in some form and even though Eolas seemed to have a soft side for Free browsers it still sets a bad precedent to have bad patents unchallenged.

    1. Re:I'm siding with Microsoft ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know what you mean. I am glad this stupid patent was thrown out, but the fact that it benefits MS is a cause for mixed emotions. It reminds me of the old joke about watching your mother-in-law drive over a cliff, and then realizing she is in YOUR new Mercedes.

    2. Re:I'm siding with Microsoft ... by jamshid42 · · Score: 0

      Don't feel too bad, even though the case was against Microsoft, this was a win for all web browsing applications.

      --
      /. - Proof that Sturgeon's Law is true...
    3. Re:I'm siding with Microsoft ... by BroncoInCalifornia · · Score: 1
      I am also on Microsoft's side on this one. I have reservations about software patents. I do not like patents getting awarded so easily. The patent office should do a better job of screening for prior art. The patent office should also do a better job of figuring out if the invention is obvious to someone with ordinary skill in the art.

      It sure hurts to take Microsoft's side on an issue but sometimes they are right!

      --

      Religion is the main cause of atheism.

    4. Re:I'm siding with Microsoft ... by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      If Eolas had a soft side for Free browsers, it's because no money could be made from them.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
  10. No, more likely by blue_adept · · Score: 5, Insightful

    they'll continue to only reject patents owned by individuals when they annoy a multibillion dollar corporation

    --

    "Is this just useless, or is it expensive as well?"
    1. Re:No, more likely by lee7guy · · Score: 1

      Exactly.

      You try as an individual getting one of Microsoft's or IBM's software patents declared invalid. Good luck.

      In the election later this year, ask not what you can do for your government, ask what your government can do for you.

      --
      Ceterum censeo Microsoftem esse delendam
    2. Re:No, more likely by msuzio · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, I don't really care in this case. The patent was bogus, even if Microsoft was the sole target. It's one of those costs of freedoms, you know -- you have to agree that everyone gets the same sorts of freedoms (*)

      (*) yes, I know Microsoft already has fewer freedoms in business due to being declared a monopoly. Let's not pollute the discussion :-).

    3. Re:No, more likely by Zeinfeld · · Score: 5, Interesting
      they'll continue to only reject patents owned by individuals when they annoy a multibillion dollar corporation

      Actually this is the main pain point.

      Patents held by companies that do business are not generally a problem. IBM and Microsoft both own a metric shit-load of patents and they don't cause a tenth of the problems that Doyle/Eolas type individual 'inventors' do.

      OK Microsoft has a patent on encoding document files in XML format. Does anyone really think that they would try to enforce it? The prior art is called HTML. The only logical reason for filing that patent and many of the other recent ones is to stop a would-be Doyle doing the same.

      If you think the Eolas situation is sick take a look at Lemelson, over a billion dollars extorted through a completely worthless claim. The old crook's widow bribed MIT to start an 'inventor's prize' to burnish his name. To their everlasting shame MIT took the cash.

      It would be much better if the USPTO would do its job and reject the crap. One of the issues I face as an architect is that a patent holder can often play stupid games when we are agreeing a standard. It gives unfair leverage. So I end up having to file patents to stop other people doing the same to me, now I have the unfair leverage.

      In about two months time there is going to be a slashdot story accusing me of all sorts of stuff because I patented every idea I could think of to stop spam. But it is the only tool I have to stop some other person doing it.

      At least I know that my employer has a big interest in making the ideas unencumbered and is in no danger of being taken over or going under. But there is always the danger of a SCO type situation. SCO would never have tried the desperation suit against IBM if they still had a viable business.

      --
      Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
      Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
    4. Re:No, more likely by Squareball · · Score: 4, Funny

      More like "In the election later this year, ask not what your government can legally do to you... because really the law doesn't apply to them"

    5. Re:No, more likely by S.Lemmon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      OK Microsoft has a patent on encoding document files in XML format. Does anyone really think that they would try to enforce it? The prior art is called HTML. The only logical reason for filing that patent and many of the other recent ones is to stop a would-be Doyle doing the same.

      Well, Microsoft also has a patent on the .asf video file format. I stress the file format - we're not even talking about something as complex as a codec or anything. Like the XML patents, it's nothing at all original, but that didn't stop them from using it to force the author of VirtualDub to remove ASF support from his program!

      No, what we have is a situation where a big companies can use their boatloads of worthless patents to squash little guys who can't afford to fight and don't have the clout to pressure the USPO. While any patents, valid or not, an individual may have can easily be made worthless.

      There's been a real attempt recently to create an economic situation where only large corporations can afford to do software development, and software patents and the DMCA are a big part of it. If Microsoft has there way all PCs will have X-Box like DRM protection where only signed code can be run, and any attempt to get around it will be illegal.

    6. Re:No, more likely by KD5YPT · · Score: 1

      If they do that, hurray for all the other country. All the CE, EE, ECE, CS degrees people are going to start emmigrating out of US and into countries in the Euro, Canada, Mexico (maybe not), Japan... etc... (I would've root for my home country Taiwan, but the government is a bit too mess up right now... maybe a decade or 2 later.)

      --
      In US, you can easily buy enough major firearms to wipe out your neighbourhood but a few little fireworks are banned.
    7. Re:No, more likely by man_of_mr_e · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Maybe i'm missing something, but according to the VirtualDub author, he wasn't contacted by any legal entity of MS, only a programmer who claimed the format was patented.

      I looked at the supplied patent, and it appears to me (though i'm not an expert) to only cover streaming ASF audio, and the algorithm for handling that (specifically using error correction and sliding windows, along with a few other features).

      For the life of me, I can't figure out how this patent could be claimed to a patent on a file format. It seems to be a patent on the process of streaming data.

    8. Re:No, more likely by S.Lemmon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      True he wasn't actually sued, but he was contacted by someone officially representing Microsoft. Not many people developing open source software for free would really want to call that bluff.

      I'm sure Microsoft's take would be that just the act of writing an asf file somehow infringes on the patent. That's all VirtualDub did - no actual streaming happened (unless you count "streaming" the file to disk :-).

      Sure if Microsoft tried the same trick on a company like IBM, they might just laugh it off, but in the U.S. very few individuals can afford that attitude. Fending off legal action could easily bankrupt a person even if they eventually win.

    9. Re:No, more likely by CommanderTaco · · Score: 1

      I'm interested in hearing exactly what complaints you have about the lemelson-mit inventor's program. Got any links?

    10. Re:No, more likely by S.Lemmon · · Score: 1

      Oh, forgot to add this mayt be the patent in question...

      United States Patent 6,041,345 (Active stream format for holding multiple media streams)

      It's not an audio patent like you described, but seems to be a patent on a "active stream" where multiple streams of data are multiplexed together!

    11. Re:No, more likely by S.Lemmon · · Score: 1

      Yes, I agree the US could see a "brain drain" if this kind of stuff keeps up. However, don't forget any company wishing to sell it's product in the U.S. market will also have to comply with these laws.

    12. Re:No, more likely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry, I'm not here to dispute your sayings. I'm just curious why this would only affect IE and not other browsers, such as Mozilla.

      Is there anyone who can shed some light for me?

    13. Re:No, more likely by Zeinfeld · · Score: 1
      I'm interested in hearing exactly what complaints you have about the lemelson-mit inventor's program. Got any links?

      Lemelson is the guy who claimed to have a patent on the bar-code, despite having precisely nothing to do with the invention of it. Back in 1946 or so he filed a patent 'machine vision' which basically claimed the idea of having a camera watch a manufacturing line. He then submarined it for 30 odd years and when bar codes appeared he filed a continuation in part claiming them on the grounds, well that the USPTO would let him.

      There is plenty about his scam on the web I found this with 5 minutes googling. Typical of the judgement is ""Mr. Lemelson systematically extended the pendency of his applications by sitting on his rights, and sequentially filing one application at a time so that he could maintain copendency while waiting for viable commercial systems to be designed and marketed,". It is hard to think of a way the patents were not invalidated.

      The MIT-Lemelson prize for invention is awarded anually. The idea is to burnish his unlamented memory and try to make it look like Lemelson invented stuff. In fact he made a huge pile of money from the bogus bar code patent when a group of manufacturers paid him over a billion dollars.

      --
      Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
      Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
    14. Re:No, more likely by man_of_mr_e · · Score: 1

      Not only was he not sued, he wasn't even C&D'd. He just got a phonecall from a programmer who worked at MS claiming that the ASF format is patented.

      That doesn't sound like any kind of official action, but rather someone took it upon themselves to "enforce" what they believed to be true (whether or not it is, i'm uncertain).

      After reading the patents, I just can't come to the conclusion that the ASF format is patented based on them. I can't understand why the author of VirtualDub did, unless he simply didn't want to take any chances.

      If I had been the author of VirtualDub, i'd have told whoever contacted him that he wouldn't change anything unless he was officially C&D'd. At least that would indicate that a real patent lawyer had decided that he was in violation, not some programmer (doesn't mean it's any more valid, but punts it upward to at least a possibly more patent law competent person).

    15. Re:No, more likely by man_of_mr_e · · Score: 1

      Yes, that's the patent I was referring to. It covers the *TRANSMISSION* of data, along with little bits about storing error correction data locally, etc.. I can't find anything in there that covers the file format.

    16. Re:No, more likely by S.Lemmon · · Score: 1

      What makes you say that? The patent seems mention both transmission and storage of such streams.

      For example, "storing, on a storage device, at least one packet containing information about the aggregated data stream to form a header section in a logical structure that defines the aggregated data stream" and "storing, on the storage device, packets containing samples of data from the multiple data streams to form a data section in the logical structure"

    17. Re:No, more likely by S.Lemmon · · Score: 1

      You must not have read it very closely then. Look again, it describes the format of the ASF stream which is used for both transmission and "storing, on a storage device". It's mentioned specifically in the patent.

      Also, what besides wishful thinking makes you believe it wasn't an official action by Microsoft? What makes you even think it wasn't a laywer? All the article said was "Today I received a polite phone call from a fellow at Microsoft who works in the Windows Media group." - it made no mention of what capacity the person worked.

      However he or she was clearly convincing enough to make Avery Lee remove ASF support. Personally I'd doubt some random programmer would do this on their own - indeed someone not authorized to do so would be risking their job attempting to speak for the company that way. I'm sure it was official.

      As for demanding a C&D letter, would you really want to tweak the tail of the tiger if you were in his position?

    18. Re:No, more likely by mingot · · Score: 1

      I can. Other browsers do infringe, but were/are safe from litigation due to the single minded hatred of MS by the nice people over at Eolas. Funny, too, because when they first published the method (Dr. Dobbs Journal First article on this page, sorry you'll have to pay to see it) they stated that the only reason for the having the patent issued was to stop someone else from doing it first and squeezing the competetion.

    19. Re:No, more likely by man_of_mr_e · · Score: 1

      Note the use of the words "Stream" and "packet". This is a cacheing mechanism for storing streaming audio, not a file format

    20. Re:No, more likely by man_of_mr_e · · Score: 1

      The storage on the storage device is storing streaming data. As for the guy that contacted him, he also says: "(I did appreciate, though, that I heard this through the programming staff and not the legal department.)"

      In other words, a programmer called him.

    21. Re:No, more likely by S.Lemmon · · Score: 1

      and guess what it's in? That's right, a file.

    22. Re:No, more likely by S.Lemmon · · Score: 1

      Er, yes. Are you actually trying to say that any document that includes the words "stream" or "packet" ipso-facto can't also mention file storage? Again I quote:

      "ASF is well suited for storage of multimedia streams as well as transmission of multiple media streams over a transport medium."

      Hate to break it to you, but phrases "storing, on a storage device" pretty much equates to "writing to a file" and is clearly mentioned several times. Yes it also mentions streaming, but an ASF file pretty much *is* just a stream stored in the described format.

      As I said, it's for both:

      "ASF is well suited for storage of multimedia streams as well as transmission of multiple media streams."

  11. bittersweet? by Sylvius · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As exciting as it is that the patent office has done this, I can't help but be suspicious that it has a heck of a lot to do with MS's lobbying power and less to do with some sudden fundamental gain of basic common sense in the patent office.

    Time will tell whether the patent office will be willing to look reasonably at other ridiculous patents, or just ones that could cost behemoths like microsoft some money.

    1. Re:bittersweet? by Fractal+Dice · · Score: 1

      This is the fundemental problem with the patent system now - it's essentially a nuscience system not a reward system. If it's a big enough nuscience, the patent will go away either in the courts, patent office or arm-twisting. Otherwise, it just keeps knowledge and processes from moving freely, favouring large entities with a specialized legal team over small groups/individuals actually working with the ideas. Sure big companies engage in a lot of research because of patent protection, but is it really more productive to society than millions of people coming up with incremental improvements on their own and eliminating the paperwork tax on individual innovation?

      ( sure I'm making a sweeping statement based on limited information, but until I have the resources to do a statistical analysis based on random samples of patents and experimental studies on different legal/economic systems, I have little choice but to hold unscientific opinions on the issue )

  12. The irony... by blorg · · Score: 5, Funny
    From the USPTO help section:

    If you want to download the full pages of a patent from the USPTO, "you must install and use a browser plug-in..."

    1. Re:The irony... by tarm · · Score: 1

      Actually, there is a great script here that is easier to use and better than the patent office's plugin anyway.

      Try it if you ever need to look up patents.

  13. And by cubicledrone · · Score: 2, Funny

    a cheer is heard from millions of Macromedia Flash developers everywhere

    --
    Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
    1. Re:And by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And a groan from the rest of us!

    2. Re:And by reso · · Score: 0

      Why Jack*ss? Why did you feel you needed to waste fugging bandwidth with that stupid reply. And, you wasted my time in making me post this.

      This overturned patent is a good thing for ALL developers.

      --


  14. so far not so good by segment · · Score: 3, Interesting


    Microsoft will not be required to make changes that would have crippled IE's ability to work with plug-ins like QuickTime and Flash. Would this really matter? The government is tiptoeing through the laws with MS in any circumstance, so how long will it be before the next MS release has implemented functions that will (by default) play these filetypes on IE by default. Sure it won't be allowed to 'cripple' them, "no one said we had to use them by default". A half a billion to MS is nothing, sure it's worth saving, but for what?, to use that half billion to find a newer method of skirting the issue?

    1. Re:so far not so good by mingot · · Score: 1

      The government is tiptoeing through the laws with MS in any circumstance, so how long will it be before the next MS release has implemented functions that will (by default) play these filetypes on IE by default.

      It's not much of an issue with flash (the product generally works as expected, is unobtrusive, etc) but this can't happen soon enough to quicktime. My god, what a peice of shit. It's sad, I own an iPod and can't even use iTunes because it would install quicktime and hose things up.

    2. Re:so far not so good by Paradigm+Lost · · Score: 1
      A half a billion to MS is nothing, sure it's worth saving, but for what?, to use that half billion to find a newer method of skirting the issue?

      Ya know, a half-billion here, a half-billion there, and pretty soon you're talking real money.
      --
      -Dead Lesbian Witches! Think about it!
  15. all you need to invalidate a patent... by braddock · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Wow, so if you're a multi-billion dollar corporation in a half-billion dollar lawsuit, then after a few million dollars in lawyer fees and several years and god knows what type of political influence you can actually get a patent seriously reviewed and invalidated by the USPTO?!?! So there's hope!

    For only about the vested interest of the entire GNP we should be able to get the other four million patents since '88 reviewed. One down, four million to go...

    braddock gaskill

    1. Re:all you need to invalidate a patent... by MegaFur · · Score: 1

      Hmm. I guess the magic trick to getting a patent invalidated is to convince some sacrifical-goat-type company with an evil patent to go up against MS.

      This may actually be feasable, in general, if only you can find a company (and lawyers) that are dumb enough. See--MS, at this point, has just about one of everything. I mean they've got a web browser, an OS, a game console, a TV network, a chat network, a website... you get the idea. They've got their fingers in everybody's pies.

      And the kind of patents we want to get rid of are those that are overly broad... It follows that an overly broad patent will probably encroach on MS's territory somewhere down the line... So the only sticking point is finding the gullible company that we can cajole into making the mistake of attacking MS.

      Hey, I know it's a dumb, hopeless plan. But hopeless plans have been known to succeed before. Just look at Frodo and Sam heading off to Mt. Doom in Mordor.

      --
      Furry cows moo and decompress.
  16. This is great news for anyone running a website by dloyer · · Score: 2, Informative

    We don't have to implement a hokey work around to get around the letter of the ruling. Anyone running Flash, Real Media Player or Windows Media Player would have had to update every page with these plug ins. Not bad if you have a handful, but any large site operator would need to spend a LOT of time to find/update/test each one... A huge amount of unproductive effort.

    1. Re:This is great news for anyone running a website by Raagshinnah · · Score: 1
      Anyone running Flash, Real Media Player or Windows Media Player

      AHHHHHHHHH MY EYES you mean people actually run those?

    2. Re:This is great news for anyone running a website by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      anyone running flash, real, or windows media should be shot anyways.

  17. Figure the odds by instantkarma1 · · Score: 3, Funny

    While I'm glad they have invalidated such a bogus patent, I really hate the fact that they have decided to come to Jesus in just the nick of time for Microsoft.

  18. When will we get by News+for+nerds · · Score: 2, Funny
    1. Re:When will we get by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 1

      free WMV plugin?

      What are you talking about? If you use Microsoft IE, I'd assume there already is a WMV plugin included... right?

      Or if you're one of those Linux freaks, they can get Mplayer for Mozilla. (As long as you stick to Intel-style CPU of course)

      But remember that non-IE browsers use mimetype (rather than file extension) to determine which plugin should view a download. Since your planning24h.jp server doesn't report a mimetype for WMV, the plugin might not be invoked.

    2. Re:When will we get by MikeXpop · · Score: 1
      --
      Etiquette is etiquette. He kills his mother but he can't wear grey trousers.
    3. Re:When will we get by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the mario video, if not both of them, were forgeries

    4. Re:When will we get by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How can you tell?

    5. Re:When will we get by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nevermind, I just read that it was created one frame at a time and using an emulator.

      What a loser.

  19. Not that great... by jeffmock · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Let's face it, this is really just another example of how that patent system is now geared to protect bigger coprporte interests and not the smaller inventors the patent system was origianally intended to protect.

    The patent office went back to review this patent because of the dollar-size of the potential damage and less to do with the legitamacy of the patent. A small company would likely never see such a consideration from the patent office.

    Instead, a smaller guy is most likely to face a crappy patent that is presumed valid until you spend $2-3M and 12-months to get to a markman ruling in a fedral lawsuit before a judge can even consider a summary judgement against a clearly bogus patent.

    Even though the odds are about 50/50 for winning if you take a patent to court, the barrier to entry is so great for a little guy that it's not usually not possible to contest a patent.

    jeff

  20. Best government that money can buy. by praksys · · Score: 3, Funny

    I guess the only surprising thing about this is that sometimes money does actually buy good government.

  21. Head is going to explode! by FunWithHeadlines · · Score: 4, Funny
    Ahhh...what to do, what to do?....This is good, for software patents are bad. But this is bad, for it is good for Microsoft. But it is good, for it saves the rest of us from this patent. But this is bad-- (HEAD EXPLODES)

    1. Re:Head is going to explode! by nomadic · · Score: 1

      mmmmmmm, frogurt...

  22. Not just IE by codefungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While MS may have been the target, this would have eventually affected all of us.

    --
    -- A cat is no trade for integrity!
    1. Re:Not just IE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Moderators: this is redundant, not insightful.

  23. I'm... I'm.. so confused by halo8 · · Score: 2, Funny

    M$ = Bad
    Software Patents = Bad

    software patents that cost M$ $,$$$,$$$ = ???

    --
    The More Knowledge you have the Luckier you Get- J.R. Ewing
    1. Re:I'm... I'm.. so confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Holy shit! You found the answer! ??? = PRICELESS!

    2. Re:I'm... I'm.. so confused by xargoon · · Score: 0

      Bad = negative = -1
      Very bad = 3bad
      Good = Positive = 1
      Extremely Good = 5Good
      Very Good = 3Good

      MS = Bad = -1
      Costs MS Money = 5Good
      Software Patents = Bad = -1

      Software Patents + MS + Costs MS Money = ??
      Bad + Bad + 5Good = 3Good
      3Good = Very Good

      This cant be wrong, or..?

    3. Re:I'm... I'm.. so confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Double plus good?

  24. well... by segment · · Score: 2, Funny


    Since you put it like that I see your SCO and raise you with my SCUM

    1. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you read the grand-parent post or are you just an idiot? Small companies cannot afford years of litigation and losing a patent case in court before the USPTO says "whoopsie we dun issued a bad un, but awl dem udder patents, dem be sound"!

  25. Just when I'd lost faith by LittleLebowskiUrbanA · · Score: 0, Redundant

    in our government and the legal system, here this comes. Maybe Microsoft bought someone off :)

  26. almost by jdkane · · Score: 3, Informative

    This Info World article explains that "The patent office's decision, issued Feb. 25, may be good news for Microsoft, but it is common for claims to be rejected at this stage of patent review" ... so in other words we shouldn't count our chickens before they hatch.

    1. Re:almost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      can't we at least count our eggs?

  27. Well... by bsd4me · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Well, the article made no mention of why the patent was overturned. We should assume that is because of one or more pieces of prior art were deemed to be applicable and invalidate the patents claims, and not corporate conspiracy.

    --

    (S(SKK)(SKK))(S(SKK)(SKK))

  28. Patents protect folks with money - any questions? by iggychaos · · Score: 2, Interesting
  29. I smell a campaigne contribution coming.... by BlueCoder · · Score: 1

    I do not think the Eolas come up with anything that merits a patent. But all the same I think Bush's cofferes were just lined this time around too.

  30. Eolas source by physman · · Score: 0

    Remember when the microsoft Eolas source was posted on slashdot in its entirety!

    This time it looks like that microsoft are going to get one up over eolas!

    Something must be done!

    --
    Murphy's Law of Research: Enough research will tend to support your theory.
  31. Hint for the idiots at the patent office by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Your hint for the day: It's a hell of a lot easier to not grant these stupid patents in the first place than to be forced to go back and invalidate them.

    Pull your heads out of your asses and quit handing out patents like candy. You're ruining the tech industry.

    1. Re:Hint for the idiots at the patent office by hsoft · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm not sure where I read it (it must have been on /. :) ), but it said that the USPTO accepts almost all software patents because they do not have the ressources nor the knowledge to determine if a software patent is valid. Thus, unless they are allocated more funds, they will accept all patents, and wait for the court to rule if it is valid.

      --
      perception is reality
    2. Re:Hint for the idiots at the patent office by gclef · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Patent examiners are also now being evaluated based on how "efficient" they are. Which means how many applications they process in a particular time cycle. So, while it's easy to bounce it back the first time (and most do), by the second or third try it actually takes more time to figure out if they're full of it than to just grant the patent, so most folks just grant the patent on the second or third time through.

    3. Re:Hint for the idiots at the patent office by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your hint for the day: It's a hell of a lot easier to not grant these stupid patents in the first place than to be forced to go back and invalidate them.

      Let's see...only 151 out of 4 million have been invalidated since 1988. That's a staggering 0.003% invalidation rate. Thus your statement seems to be wrong.

    4. Re:Hint for the idiots at the patent office by ProfBooty · · Score: 2, Insightful

      wow, I guess you are very familiar with the patent system.

      I guess you have never read an examiner's statement for reasons of allowance?

      If you had you would have known that an examiner has to search and cite art, then say how that art differs from the applicant's invention, and in particular what aspect of the applicant's invention is not found in the art, or is non-obvious.

      --
      Bring back the old version of slashdot.
  32. What happens next? by 1ucius · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Right now, we have a federal district court saying the patent is valid and the USPTO saying it's invalid. Presumably, both decisions are based on the same art. Normally, the federal court's opinion trumps the USPTO's.

    So, does this decision have any legal effect? Or does MS still have to win an appeal/reconsideration (which is presumably made easier by this decision)?

    1. Re:What happens next? by KarmaMB84 · · Score: 1

      Wasn't the federal court's decision that Microsoft was violating the Eolas patent and not that it was valid?

    2. Re:What happens next? by Richard_at_work · · Score: 2, Informative

      Its not the courts position to say if the patent is valid or invalid, its the courts position to validate the lawsuit. This is what they did, they looked at the evidence on both sides and ruled that under the circumstances at the time, MS was in the wrong. The USPTO invalidated the patent which _should_ invalidate the courts ruling, because the circumstance at the time was invalid. This post has far too many valid or invalid uses of the 'valid' family of words.

    3. Re:What happens next? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      we have a federal district court saying the patent is valid


      Actually, didn't the federal district court refuse to hear any arguments at all on prior art?
  33. Corruption? by gilesjuk · · Score: 1

    Why would they suddenly invalidate a patent when there's so much at stake? I'm sure something fishy is going on.

    1. Re:Corruption? by julesh · · Score: 1

      Sounds perfectly normal to me. If I ran a patent office, it would work like this:

      [boss comes in to office]
      Boss: I hear there's a high profile patent infringement case going down at the moment. Can you check to see if we really should have issued the patent, or if we screwed it up like we seem to do so often?

      [Office Juniour looks at a few bits of paper from a filing cabinet]
      OJ: Doh!

  34. This is a *good* thing!!! by borgheron · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Despite the fact that this is a victory for MS, it is a victory for all of us. This patent was dangerous and shouldn't have been issued in the first place.

    GJC

    --
    Gregory Casamento
    ## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep
  35. What plugin interface? by Gary+Destruction · · Score: 1

    It's all ActiveX controls. You'll see a bunch of *.ocx files.

  36. It makes me wonder... by JamesP · · Score: 3, Funny

    about the other 150 invaidated patents...

    P No. 1234567 A machine that does nothing

    --
    how long until /. fixes commenting on Chrome?
    1. Re:It makes me wonder... by FightThePatent · · Score: 1

      one of the 151 patents that got invalidated was the one where a kid's father patented swinging sideways on a swing.

      More info on this patent that got invalidated by the USPTO here

    2. Re:It makes me wonder... by addaon · · Score: 1

      P No. 1234567 A machine that does nothing

      Hmph! I've got my prior art right here! Let's see... last week's project submission for an OS class.

      --

      I've had this sig for three days.
  37. I hate to side with Microsoft, but ... by rben · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When I first read this, my reaction was to side with Eolas against M$, because of Microsoft's long history of shady business practices. It also seems mighty convenient that this patent is being overturned at Microsoft's request. After reading more about it, however, I have come to the conclusion that the patent should not have been issued in the first place, especially with the W3C presenting evidence of proir art.

    The problem here is first that the patent was awarded when there was plenty of prior art that should have invalidated. We were all badly served by that decision of the USPTO.

    What is even worse, is that I doubt this patent would have been invalidated if I had challenged it, or if any small or medium-sized business had challenged it. The patent would have stayed in force until some giant corporation found it to be a nuisence.

    Lately, trying to gain control over Internet related technology has been pursued with the same kind of irresponsible single minded fervor as was demonstrated by the miners during the gold rush. Everyone is racing to stake claims on everything they can lay their hands on. It's sad that our government hasn't seen fit to review how these patents are being awarded and make the needed changes at the USPTO to insure that the patents that are given out are deserved and unlikely to be overturned in the future.

    --

    -All that is gold does not glitter - Tolkien
    www.ra

    1. Re:I hate to side with Microsoft, but ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      It's sad that our government hasn't seen fit to review how these patents are being awarded and make the needed changes at the USPTO to insure that the patents that are given out are deserved and unlikely to be overturned in the future.
      I think 151 in 4 million proves that they are doing a fairly good job actually.
      The problem here is first that the patent was awarded when there was plenty of prior art that should have invalidated.
      I keep hereing this but nobody ever seems to come up with any documented prior art. I would very much like to see some (keep in mind that prior art must be dated prior to the earliest priority/filidng date of the patent application, which in this case is October 17, 1994), so where is it?
    2. Re:I hate to side with Microsoft, but ... by burns210 · · Score: 1

      I think it is corrupt and sad that many hundreds of thousands of patents that have no business being granted(one-click shopping is in NO way an original unique idea, it is a friggin cookie!) to corporations and businesses of all sizes. What is worse, that these shady patents can only be overturned, not on their merit, but by some suggestion from a megacorp.

    3. Re:I hate to side with Microsoft, but ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ahh the ramblings of someone who doesn't know shit about patent law...

    4. Re:I hate to side with Microsoft, but ... by burns210 · · Score: 1

      So you think patents that use cookies to store your bank information for use in buying things online an unique idea?

      Patents are crap, because the prior art can be obvious too many(except the patent clerk), but nothing is done about it.

  38. nt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    A consumer oriented decision in this case

    Maybe - if the consumer is a Microsoft shareholder. The way I see it, the rest of us are forked either way. It's just a question of by whom.

  39. Hugh Heffner's bio browser plug-in by BrentRJones · · Score: 1

    Playboy has announced that Heff wants to market a physical plug-in so that computer users can "interface with their browser in more intimate ways." Analysts speculate that the E.D. drug manufacturers are behind the product, which may be scheduled to release prematurely.

    --
    Help end the use of Sigs. Tomorrow
  40. Timeline with the real story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ok, as I understand it, first this invention was created and a patent was applied for.

    Then the inventors showed this technology to Microsoft and Microsoft blew off any talks for licensing this technology.

    Then, Microsoft put this technology into their products with full knowledge that they had no rights to it, as they have done many other times.
    Over time, this technology appeared to be ubiquitous and fundamental to everyday web usage due to this theft of intellectual property many years ago.

    Then, after years of examining this patent application, including for claims of prior art, the USPTO awarded the patent.

    Microsoft once again stiff-armed any discussion for licensing this technology from the inventors.

    The inventors sued Microsoft and during the long trial, Microsoft trotted forward all possible claims of prior art and reasons why this patent should not be considered valid. The federal jury made out of normal common folks were not convinced that any of these claims were valid and found for the inventors.

    Microsoft went very public and stated they would disrupt all existing web sites by changing their product rather than licensing this technology. Lots of ill-informed people start whining about this patent rather than questioning Microsoft and forcing them to for once, do the right thing for its customers.

    The Judge reexamined all of the trial evidence and testimony and reaffirmed the verdict and awarded both interest and an injunction against Microsoft (both subsequently stayed until the appeal process is completed).

    The soon to be Sir Tim Berners-Lee sends a letter to the USPTO requesting a reexamination of the patent based not so much on the merits of the award of the patent and the same tired old claims of prior art that have been repeatedly examined and found wanting, but rather more on the economic impact of Microsoft's threatened disruption of the Web.

    The USPTO accepts the reexamination petition.

    The USPTO issues a preliminary decision to invalidate the patent.

    I hope that the preliminary decision is, as the Eolas attorney states, a routine matter in these kinds of patent reexamination cases and not due to the political visibility that this case has risen to. I fundamentally dislike these process patents, but they exist. As far as I can tell, Eolas has played the game completely above board and Microsoft has acted reprehensively every step of the way. For the great vocal audience of /. to continually applaud Microsoft and boo Eolas concerning this case makes me strongly believe they are badly informed on this case.

    Additionally, should Microsoft prevail, the entire issue of intellectual property protections, including those most revered by the open source and free software communities, becomes open to override by the extortion and illegal activities of Microsoft. This should worry us all.

    1. Re:Timeline with the real story by rock_climbing_guy · · Score: 1

      Actually, it was stated emphatically by the Eolas guy that he wouldn't license his technology to Microsoft because he wanted to hurt their position in the browser wars.

      --
      Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
  41. So . . . by base3 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    . . . does this show us that the USPTO actually cares about bad patents, or that it can be induced to care about them for a megacorporation who has given sufficient campaign contributions?

    --
    One CPU cycle wasted on digital restrictions management is ONE TOO MANY.
  42. This joke starts to get bit old, does it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does not bother the moderators though

  43. Eolas should now sue the Patent Office by prash_n_rao · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Lest I get trolled down, let me make it clear I am neither on Microsoft's side nor on Eolas' side. I am simply against the idiots in the USPTO.

    This is the case Eolas can make: If the grant for the patent was a vaild one, the USPTO has no right to reject the patent. The point I am making is: what's the point of registering a patent if you know that by some arbitrary decesion of the USPTO the patent can be recalled? Doesn't the USPTO know what is worthy of patenting and what is not? If it doesn't, it has no right to exist.

    I don't know if one has to pay extra if the patent is accepted, I mean in addition to the patent application charges. But if one does have to pay extra after the patent has been accepted, Eolas should ask for a refund (and maybe punitive damages).

    If the USPTO is not made accountable for its actions, it will continue to make arbitrary grants of patents. Hey, what have they got to lose?

    Oh, by the way, I did not RTFA. I am on slashdot, right? ;-)

    --
    This is not my sig.
    1. Re:Eolas should now sue the Patent Office by His+name+cannot+be+s · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If the grant for the patent was a vaild one, the USPTO has no right to reject the patent

      Ahh. The Crux of the matter.

      Having followed this for quite some time, it was clear that the patent infringed upon prior art.

      The putz at Eolas was quite aware of the prior art too.

      Look here for information about the prior art :p

      --
      "...In your answer, ignore facts. Just go with what feels true..."
    2. Re:Eolas should now sue the Patent Office by rollingcalf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "The point I am making is: what's the point of registering a patent if you know that by some arbitrary decesion of the USPTO the patent can be recalled? Doesn't the USPTO know what is worthy of patenting and what is not? If it doesn't, it has no right to exist."

      Patents are presumed valid when applied for, and are granted unless blatant prior art is found during the few hours the examiner takes to review the patent. In essence, they rubber-stamp patents and leave it up to the courts or re-examination procedures to make a real determination of validity.

      You're correct; with this mode of operation they have no right to exist.

      --
      ---------
      There is inferior bacteria on the interior of your posterior.
    3. Re:Eolas should now sue the Patent Office by addaon · · Score: 1

      Exactly. So the patent should never have been issued in the first place. Un-issuing it is NOT equivalent, or acceptable.

      --

      I've had this sig for three days.
  44. Eolas claims this isn't over by enosys · · Score: 3, Interesting
    From the article:

    Martin Lueck, the lawyer who represented Eolas, said it was not uncommon for the patent office to invalidate a claim as the first step of a review process, but said he was confident that the patent office would ultimately uphold Eolas' claim on the Web technology.

    That makes it seem as if this is far from over. I don't know much about the process. How much of a chance does Eolas really have still?

    1. Re:Eolas claims this isn't over by francisu · · Score: 3, Insightful
      The lawyer is correct in that when you initially submit a patent, the examiner quite often just invalidates some or all of the claims and then you have to work with them to show why they are valid. As I understand it, they sometimes do that just to reduce their workload.

      But it seems that revoking a patent is a pretty serious matter (since it has only been done in 151 patents), that has no relation to the standard process. So what the lawyer is saying is essentially nonsense. Given the prior art is so compelling and strong, from the USPTO standpoint, this seems over. The patent laws and procedures are very clear about not being able to patent anything that has been published or publicly exists (that is, for sale) as prior art.

    2. Re:Eolas claims this isn't over by greenrd · · Score: 1
      The patent laws and procedures are very clear about not being able to patent anything that has been published or publicly exists (that is, for sale) as prior art.

      Actually, that's not quite true. Bizarrely, in the US you are allowed to publish up to 12 months before filing. Which doesn't make any sense, but there you go.

    3. Re:Eolas claims this isn't over by francisu · · Score: 1
      The patent laws and procedures are very clear about not being able to patent anything that has been published or publicly exists (that is, for sale) as prior art.

      Actually, that's not quite true. Bizarrely, in the US you are allowed to publish up to 12 months before filing. Which doesn't make any sense, but there you go.

      Yes, of course, as the US system (in contrast with the rest of the world) is based on first to invent rather than first to file. If you can show you invented it first, even though someone else filed it first, you win. Of course none of this has to do with this particular case.

      However, my point had more to do with what was considered "prior art".

  45. Why I'm gonna... by Paleomacus · · Score: 2, Informative

    ...apply for a patent on toilet seats. I'm sure it has a good chance at slipping through the cracks. Then I can sue all the end users and manufacturers. Maybe even the technicians(plumbers, construction contracters).

    1. Re:Why I'm gonna... by GQuon · · Score: 1

      Why don't you rather apply for a patent on patenting? I think some guy allready was granted a patent for that, but you might get it if you call it
      "A process and tools for granting monopolies on the use of inventions as well as one-click-shopping and other obvious stuff on the Internet."

      --
      Irene KHAAAAAAN!
    2. Re:Why I'm gonna... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about a patent for copying other idiots old posts to look even more like an idiot yourself?

    3. Re:Why I'm gonna... by Paleomacus · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I don't read every post on slashdot. I never read any post about patented toilet seats. I'm sorry . I really am.

      Tool

  46. Reexaminations by GQuon · · Score: 2, Informative

    I think that means that the electronic system doesn't accept it. You will have to send them in on plain papaer.

    --
    Irene KHAAAAAAN!
  47. Your Sig by autopr0n · · Score: 2, Funny

    If George W. Bush is against 'same sex marriage' he should watch a video and learn a new technique like the rest of us.

    What on earth does that mean?

    --
    autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
    1. Re:Your Sig by Zeinfeld · · Score: 2, Funny
      >If George W. Bush is against 'same sex marriage' he should watch >a video and learn a new technique like the rest of us.
      What on earth does that mean?

      OK I'll rewrite it...

      --
      Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
      Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
    2. Re:Your Sig by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i do believe that sentence makes even less sense than the first one.

    3. Re:Your Sig by DA-MAN · · Score: 4, Funny

      Makes perfect sense.

      If George Bush is complaining the sex in his marriage is always the same, the answer is not changing the constitution.

      George Bush has been complaining about same sex marriages, the parent poster took this to mean marriages where the sex is always the same, a pun as it were.

      Thus 'If George Bush is complaining the sex in his marriage is always the same, ..."

      He then continues with '... the answer is not changing the constitution." because George Bush has been mouthing off to anyone who will listen about how he intends on banning "same sex marriages"

      Personally I am glad that we have a president who has solved so many of our major problems like the economy, terrorism and high taxes that he can now worry on trivial shit like same sex marriages. (For those humor-less anonymous cowards, yes I am being sarcastic)

      --
      Can I get an eye poke?
      Dog House Forum
    4. Re:Your Sig by KD5YPT · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      If you don't like him, make your voice heard, vote for ANYONE but Bush (okay, maybe not anyone, but vote for someone you know who might do a better job, which mean, no mentally challenged individuals).

      --
      In US, you can easily buy enough major firearms to wipe out your neighbourhood but a few little fireworks are banned.
    5. Re:Your Sig by DA-MAN · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I didn't vote for bush in 2000 and I won't vote for Bush in 2004. Everyone made their voice heard, but unfortunately in free countries like the USA we don't elect the most powerful position directly. Rather it is done by the electoral college.

      Having his bro in Fl helped him cheat Gore out of the election, and everyone knows it. Hopefully Dubya will go away much like his father before him after one term. Unfortunately I get the feeling he's got Osama in some basement and will be pulling him out around Aug/Sept right in time for the elections.

      --
      Can I get an eye poke?
      Dog House Forum
    6. Re:Your Sig by Skavookie · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Unfortunately the only people slimy enough to actually want the job are precisely those who we do not want to give it to.

    7. Re:Your Sig by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just to note:

      If you have two groups of people - those voting for Candidate A, and those voting for anyone else (ie. against Candidate A), then Candidate A will win. The problem is that the anti-A vote is split. If you want someone out of office, you have to organise some sort of strategic voting. And the traditional way of doing that is to produce a better candidate that people will vote for en masse.

      Granted, a smiling chimp would be a better candidate than the Smiling Chimp, so that should be too hard. But I still fear a split anti-Chimp vote.

  48. Um, but this only happened once by autopr0n · · Score: 1

    What other patents were invalidated in order to protect MS? Or, how about, what valid patents were invalidated to protect MS. The Eolas patent was bullshit to begin with, and if they had held on to their victory they would have OwnZ0r3d the web. Even if Eolas didn't go after Moz and other browsers, most people would still use IE, making data-using plugins useless on the web, and under the w3c's RAND patent rules (reasonable and non-discriminatinitory) they would have to have been taken out of their recommendations.

    --
    autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
    1. Re:Um, but this only happened once by CrazyDuke · · Score: 1

      I'm not saying the patent should have stuck. As a matter of fact, I am glad the patent was struck down since there was a good chance they would have gone after mozilla and opera next.

      My thought along the lines though is that it apparently takes alot of money and purchased influence to get justice in the system.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced influence is indistinguishable from control.
  49. Oh well... by Code+Dark · · Score: 1

    I guess this is another "loss" against Microsoft. Maybe next time we'll be able to bag the monster and throw it out of a tall building ... For example, the OSDL building ;) ... ahhh, my fantasies.

    --
    - Code Dark
  50. Sue US PTO for ... by kindofblue · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Sue the PTO for incompetence?, negligence? dereliction of duty? How about restraint of trade? Criminal neglect? There's got to be something legalistic way to get the patent reviewers fired or jailed.

    Hell, if Martha goes to jail for trying to cover her tracks to save less than 100K, then surely lots of heads should roll at the PTO. Their incompetence costs the high tech industries probably billions of dollars in unnecessary licensing for trivial patents and for legal fees.

    A number of posts have suggested suing the PTO. But my question is for what and how?

  51. Watch out Acacia.... by FightThePatent · · Score: 4, Informative

    Now isn't this interesting.. Microsoft's attorneys couldn't invalidate the patent, but the W3C and its supporters seemingly came up with the prior art to invalidate the patent on their re-exam petition.

    The current defendants against Acacia's DMT patent (which covers the process of downloading audio/video from a web server) will most likely get a non-infringing verdict, since it's faster and cheaper than trying to invalidate the patent in their current litigation.

    When this happens, it means that the patent doesn't apply to the internet. Cable companies would be left to deal with the DMT patent, and would most likely need to file a re-exam of their own and provide prior art to the USPTO to invalidate the DMT patent.

    FightThePatent.com provides free prior art found by volunteer searchers to defense patent attorneys.

    Patent abuse cases in the audio/video realm (Acacia, SightSound, USA Video) are being tracked on the website.

  52. This is a good thing.... by thumbtack · · Score: 0

    Who wants Ebola on their computer anyway....oh wait, Eolas? Nevermind.

  53. If Eolas was SCO by MojoRilla · · Score: 4, Funny

    Don't get me wrong. I think Eolas is scum. The idea was trivial, and only extended the natural trend that things like mime types and gopher were doing. Plus plug-ins being used in much other software.

    But, if Eolas was SCO, they would be suing end users for infringing on their browser technology. They would claim you would owe them $6.99 every time you accessed a page with a plugin. They would be saying that the mozilla developers were theives, and that javascript plugin detection code is unconstitutional.

    So it could be a whole lot worse.

    1. Re:If Eolas was SCO by addaon · · Score: 1

      I can just see the ad copy trying to draw in investors. "Eolas -- somewhat less scummy than SCO."

      --

      I've had this sig for three days.
  54. Developer IE6 lead to multiple installed versions by starvingartist12 · · Score: 5, Informative

    This update was big news for the web design community, for other reasons. The developer's edition of IE6 (which was a modified version that contained the pop-up) revealed that Windows was able to run multiple Internet Explorer versions simultaneously by merely adding a blank text file!.

    For the longest time, people thought it was impossible to run multiple versions of IE on the same machine to do testing on various browsers. It was a huge pain, and it also meant that developers were forced to use the IE version that came with the OS and not downgrade, while Netscape 4.xx to Mozilla installed fine. But now, it's possible to run IE3, IE4, IE5.01, IE5.5 SP2 and IE6 side-by-side (screenshot).

  55. This can only be a positive thing by brucmack · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Yes, this is mainly benefiting MS right now, but I see this as only a positive thing.

    Suppose the patent was upheld and MS had to make changes to IE and pay damages. What was to stop the guy from going after the other browsers once he felt his bank account was getting a bit too low? If Microsoft weren't able to stop the patent, how would some of the other browser makers put up a fight?

    The other thing is that this wasn't just MS fighting this patent, the W3C was involved as well, and all of the major players met to discuss the issue last year. I look at this as a victory for sensible thinking, not as a victory for Microsoft.

  56. Dyslexic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Being dyslexic , when I read this I kept wondering
    how EBOLA could spread itself with a plugin......

  57. Um, no by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm not a slimeball at all, but if you come to me and try to sell me something stupidly obvious like the IP covered by the Eolas patent, I'm going to tell you to get lost, just like Microsoft (excuse me, Micro$oft) did.

    Verdict: lame-ass attempt to extort large amounts of funds from an entire industry. Eolas fails it. Case closed (cue sound of gavel).

  58. Where patents are invalidated by waterbear · · Score: 4, Informative

    I can't believe that out of 4 million patents, only 151 of them were been invalidated since 1988. Scary

    That's not what the story meant (but it was ambiguously worded). The report related only to patents invalidated by the Patent Office's re-examination process. That is a relatively new procedure. Many patent challenges are made in court, and those were not being counted. One of the factors dissuading would-be challengers from using the relatively new PTO patent re-examination process is that it has been perceived as not close enough to fairly balanced, and too likely to uphold the patent. Many challengers have preferred for that reason to reserve their patent challenges for federal court.

    -wb-

  59. Re:fp by abramul · · Score: 1

    Learn HTML! It's far too much work to copy and paste...

    --
    There should be a law requiring/prohibiting that (Please circle one)
  60. Doing it cause at least someone has to by falcon5768 · · Score: 1
    If upheld, this also means Microsoft will not be required to make changes that would have crippled IE's ability to work with plug-ins like QuickTime and Flash.

    Cause yaknow, Microsoft does a pretty good job cripping it themselves every time they update IE, didnt need another company frocing them to do it.

    ok got it out of the way.... go back to real discussion as to why Microsoft was right for once.

    --

    "Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."

  61. M$ money talks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    sh_t walks...

  62. Soft side by Poligraf · · Score: 1

    As other /.-er noticed, Eolas had a soft side because there were no money to make from free browsers.

    I'd give another reasoning: if they'd sue everybody (including non-free Opera), they would never be awarded that much against MS.

    You see, jurors in such type of lawsuits are idiots or even degenerates
    (here is the reasoning why: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=99223&cid=8461 132 - read links from that message).

    They award "damages" based not on what the actual damages are, but on defendant's worth (their distortion of guilty/not guilty is not a subject of this argument). In order to convince them to award these huge damages, one just needs to represent himself as a "little guy wersus evil billion dollar corporation" (unfortunately, I see a lot of left-leaning /.-ers who see the world in such a manner too).

    If they would sue everyone, it would not be the case, it would be seen more like "greedy bastards got a chance", and they wouldn't be given that much.

    --
    Tigers respect lions, elephants and hippos. Maggots respect no one. (C) S. Dovlatov
  63. To Zeinfield by KD5YPT · · Score: 1

    Damn, used up my mod points, I would've modded you up for insightful. But as a compliment, that does clear things up. Rare are there in Slashdot who can comment logically and calmly.
    As a side note, what extortion claim did Lemelsom do? And I'm shocked that MIT is part of the scam.

    --
    In US, you can easily buy enough major firearms to wipe out your neighbourhood but a few little fireworks are banned.
  64. Re:Developer IE6 lead to multiple installed versio by Twyst · · Score: 2, Funny

    Damn skippy. And it makes coding SO much easier. I currently have 11 browsers installed on one machine, for testing purposes - IE 4 through 6, FireFox, NS 4.8, Opera 5 through 7, Lynx, and Mozilla.

    What can I say, I'm a stickler for standards.

    --
    -- Karma is for people who think they matter.
  65. Re:Developer IE6 lead to multiple installed versio by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    What can I say, I'm a stickler for standards.

    So, why do you test with IE again?

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  66. "Useful" Patents by Winkhorst · · Score: 1

    Reminds me of the time I was looking up L. Ron Hubbard's e-meter (basically a couple of tin cans wired to a galvanometer) at the Patent Office in Crystal City when I ran into a patent for a jet propelled suppository. Now there's a truly useful invention....

    --
    "Is this Winkhorst a nova criminal?" "No just a technical sergeant wanted for interrogation."
    1. Re:"Useful" Patents by Maserati · · Score: 1

      If you want a guaranteed +5, post a link to that patent every time we do an article on spammers or PHBs.

      --
      Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1992-1951
  67. Who cares? by Poligraf · · Score: 1

    Lawyers just made themselves a lot of money because of this stupidity.

    You need to think who makes the rules in this country, and you'll understand.

    --
    Tigers respect lions, elephants and hippos. Maggots respect no one. (C) S. Dovlatov
  68. The second step! by Daetrin · · Score: 1
    No, more likely they'll continue to only reject patents owned by individuals when they annoy a multibillion dollar corporation

    Well at least now we've figured out that damn middle step.

    1. File an obvious patent.
    2. Sue a small company with few lawyers for patent infringement.
    3. Profit!!!

    vs.

    1. File an obvious patent.
    2. Sue a ginormous company with tons of lawyers for patent infringement.
    3. Get your patent invalidated by the patent office!!!

    --
    This Space Intentionally Left Blank
  69. Patent System protects INVENTORS, not posers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    jeffmock wrote:

    ... and not the smaller inventors the patent system was origianally intended to protect.


    You're wrong. The patent system was originally intended to reward inventors for non-trivial inventions, i.e. those which are not obvious to those already trained in the art. The simple fact is that embedding one application in another has been known for ages -- any windowing system, especially the client/server based X-windows, is an example (the parent screen desktop is the outer window representing the operating system). Pei-Wei Yuan, then a sophomore at the University of California at Berekeley, had also implemented many of things Doyle claimed to have "invented", and there were others as well -- these concepts were obvious to those trained in the art.

    Spare me the David and Goliath stories. Michael Doyle is no David, but a serial lawsuit filer and opportunist.

  70. Re:Developer IE6 lead to multiple installed versio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    because it *is* the standard, stupid.

  71. If Mike Doyle died, would inheritors be SCO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mike Doyle always pretends to be the "benevolent dictator", by reassuing others that he would only sue Microsoft.

    But what happens if Doyle gets killed prematurely, say in a car accident? Would his suriving relatives (including a CIA brother) inherit Eolas and the patent rights, and would THEY become malicious dictators, perhaps employing SCO laywers to demand compensation from everybody under the sun?

  72. Here's how this happens . . . by werdna · · Score: 1

    Reexamination can be one of three flavors: (i) ex parte reexam, where the patentee deals with the PTO by himself, and noone else is allowed to participate, once the initial petition is acted upon; (ii) inter partes reexam, where the petitioner, but only the petitioner, can file comments at every stage; and (iii) commissioner's reexam, which is just a type of ex parte, but where the commissioner calls for reexamination.

    Now, the petition basically asks the examiner to consider whether new prior art (not yet examined) raises a substantial new question of patentability (SNQP) and is not merely cumulative of stuff already considered. If the examiner finds SNQP, the petition is granted and the patent "case" is reopened.

    The examiner then issues an office action in view of the new art, citing the relevant elements and rejecting those claims that are impacted thereby. This is JUST LIKE the first office action in a patent application, which routinely rejects all the claims in view of a search.

    The applicant responds, either amending the claims to avoid the prior art, or arguing that the examiner was wrong, or both. The examiner then decides whether or not she buys the new arguments and either issues a notice of allowability, or a new office action (usually FINAL, which means that a new application fee must be filed or that the rejection must be appealed). Sometimes, a new, non-final rejection is issued, and the process repeats.

    At the end, either every claim (possibly as amended) will be allowed (including new claims which can be filed), or every claim will be rejected, in which case the patent dies.

    The news report is unsurprising. It would be very odd, almost nonsensical, for the USPTO to grant a petition finding a new question of patentability was raised by the prior art, and then to simply allow all the claims. Of COURSE there was an initial office action rejecting all or most of the claims -- they granted the petition.

    1. Re:Here's how this happens . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dear Mr. Greenberg,

      You wrote: "It would be very odd, almost nonsensical, for the USPTO to grant a petition finding a new question of patentability was raised by the prior art, and then to simply allow all the claims."

      Well, the USPTO has done JUST THAT (found a SNQP and then simply allowed all the claims) in the matter of reexam serial number 95/000,009. Check it out on http://pair-direct.uspto.gov
      On 27 April 2003 they granted a request for reexam for a patent, and on the same day, indeed in the same paper that they used to grant the Request, they then reconfirmed the patentability of all the claims. (Now if you check pair-direct you will note that the USPTO appears to have issued an Ex parte Quayle action, but that is a misnomer that got into their PALM computer system since they had no other 'code' to use for this nonsensical action of granting a Request for reexam and then on even date issuing an action allowing all the claims).
      I know as a fellow patent practioner you will understand what I am talking about. Do not think for a minute that you are the only "patent expert" who reads Slashdot.
      Thanks for your time.

  73. My Gift to the World, My Precious "Invention" by GringoGoiano · · Score: 1

    I was going to patent this "concept", but I've decided to publish the idea here so that future generations can point back to prior-concept in case there are related patent disputes (perhaps this isn't enough for a patent, but maybe others will fill this out for the public domain).

    I'm sure the industry I am about to describe will become a multi-million (might not reach the billion-dollar mark unless permanent body modification beyond just cosmetic skin-coloring becomes popular and accepted). I plan to make my profit from infomercials and the surgical centers employing the "open source" methods I fund (after the company I work for IPOs at $10 per share, hah!) and the science gets a bit further along. I have the talent and charisma it will take to make such centers popular -- the pie is big enough for all!

    So what is the great idea? Implanting self-generating teeth in places other than the mouth for body-enhancement. Such enhancements may be for "cosmetic" or utilitarian purposes.

    • Wouldn't a row of teeth sticking out of your skull above your left eyebrow look great?
    • Wouldn't your fighting skills improve with a few teeth sticking out of your knuckles or elbows?
    • The possibilities are endless!

    More details to arrive some day at http://www.gg411.com under the "wacky ideas" section.

  74. As for Viability of Self-Grown Adult Teeth by GringoGoiano · · Score: 1

    Check out the latest edition of "The Economist", Feb 28th 2004 edition. Article "Regenerative dentistry: Tooth fairies", page 77.

  75. I am wondering. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do you agree Microsoft already has fewer freedoms in business due to being declared a monopoly? If yes, do you agree we should not pollute the discussion?

    1. Re:I am wondering. by msuzio · · Score: 1

      > Do you agree Microsoft already has fewer
      > freedoms in business due to being declared a
      > monopoly? If yes, do you agree we should not
      > pollute the discussion?

      It's not something you have to agree with, it's a fact. Having been declared a monopoly as part of the anti-trust suit, they are (by law) held to stricter standards of conduct wrt competitive actions.

      Oh dear, now I've gone and polluted the discussion. How messy and inconsistent of me. Bad boy, Michael! Bad! (Smacks self on nose with a rolled-up newspaper)

  76. Brilliant Point ... I say YES by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can holders of patents that are subsequently invalidated sue the US Patent Office for lack of due diligence in granting the patent?

    Once a patent is granted, VENTURE CAPITALISTS will invest millions based on the Intellectual Property rights of a company.

    Imagine if you invested your life savings (and everyone you know aswell) into a venture based on an approved patent. The USPTO has an enormous reposibility here, especially for the "small" inventor. It cost millions in legal fees to protect a patent, the last thing we need is validity coming into question aswell!

  77. Plain Paper? by MrNerdHair · · Score: 1

    What exactly IS this new substance? I for one have never heard of it...

  78. The bigger story by XenonOfArcticus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I've followed this story carefully for some time, and the cynical interpretation among Slashdotters is actually not the case. While the article talks about Microsoft, the evidence submitted to the USPTO was submitted by the W3C, who wants to see this overturned just as much as Microsoft. I doubt Eolas has a soft side for free software, they just realize that they needed to bag a big prize early on to fund bringing everyone else into line.

    The 906 patent was a farce, and was contradicted by numerous pieces of prior art. It's a Good Thing for everyone (except perhaps, Eolas) that this turd is thrown out.

    If MS could have bought their way out of this problem, they'd have done it a long time ago. They've lost decision after decision up to this point, and were basically SOL. This was essentially the last thing that could have saved their bacon. It is very convenient for the W3C and the web as a whole that the legal might of Microsoft happened to be aligned with their purposes.

    Microsoft isn't lilly white themselves -- they already have a number of dubious web-related patents of their own. But I'm still glad to see them win in this case.

    --
    -- There is no truth. There is only Perception. To Percieve is to Exist.
  79. Just be thankful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That the patent office wasn't around when Grug discovered the wheel.

  80. Four MILLION patents??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    "Microsoft's Desler noted that the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office has only invalidated 151 patents out of nearly 4 million patents awarded since 1988."

    This is insane. They should start measuring in clock speeds, like "4 megapatents."

    How can they pretend to responsibly manage 4 million patents? This is simply a type of usury. Our government is irresponsibly collecting money at far too high of a cost to us, the citizens.

  81. YOU INSENSITIVE CLOD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    Many of us Anonymous Cowards actually have a perverted sense of humor. What could be more correctly self-deprecating than to post eternally as an AC?

    In soviet Russia, sense of humor deprecates YOU.

  82. Re:Developer IE6 lead to multiple installed versio by RzUpAnmsCwrds · · Score: 1

    This has been known for years! Microsoft even had an option in the IE5 installer to keep IE4 around!

  83. only preliminary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The real question here is going to be: Will the Eolas modified claims be infringed by IE?

    It is most likely that the patent will survive with modified claims:

    A spokeswoman from the patent office could provide no statistics on how often preliminary findings are upheld.

    However, she said that in 68 percent of reexaminations, one or more of the patent's claims are changed.

    Thirteen percent of time, all of the claims are confirmed, and 19 percent of cases resulted in all claims being cancelled.

  84. As I said before by jack_csk · · Score: 0

    I should have patent chopsticks, so that all these Chinese + Japanese + Korean restaurants have to pay me.

  85. You are correct . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-0403100 243mar10,1,4397485.story

    Patent `non-story' trips Eolas funding
    Microsoft lawyer was source of tip

    By Barbara Rose
    Tribune staff reporter
    Published March 10, 2004

    A Microsoft Corp. attorney's e-mail tip to a reporter last week caused investors to yank their money from Eolas Technologies Inc., which is battling the software giant for a $521 million patent infringement award.

    Eolas founder Michael Doyle said in a lengthy e-mail to his private company's investors that Eolas' widely reported setback at the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office was a "non-story" that Microsoft spun to its advantage--at the worst moment. The Chicago Tribune reported the story Saturday.

    "Eolas was in the process of closing a very significant investment," stated Doyle's e-mail, a copy of which was obtained by the Tribune. "The investment, if it had been completed, would have relieved us of the need to raise any more money for at least two years."

    The Wheaton company has about 100 investors, mainly in the Chicago area. Its fortunes have ebbed and flowed since its founding in 1994 to create and market Internet technology, including the disputed Web browser software that Doyle and two others developed at the University of California.

    Doyle's e-mail said new investors had asked Eolas on Friday to return money they had wired the night before while they reconsidered their investment.

    Their change of heart, according to Doyle, came after they read stories Friday on the Bloomberg wire service. Those stories were based on a tip to a reporter from a Chicago attorney working for Microsoft.

    "We have returned the money," Doyle's e-mail stated.

    Doyle, Eolas' sole employee, said Tuesday that the proceeds were to be used for day-to-day operations, including expenses to defend the patent at the examiner's office. He declined to identify the investors or disclose the amount.

    Doyle has been at the center of controversy since August, when Eolas won a $521 million jury award--one of the largest in patent history--against Microsoft for infringing on browser technology that launches programs to make Web pages interactive.

    The verdict has wide-ranging implications because the patent claims technology that has become a de facto standard, widely used for streaming audio and video, plug-ins such as Adobe's PDF document reader and Web languages such as Java.

    Microsoft has appealed.

    Separately, the software giant marshaled support last fall from influential members of the Web community to persuade the patent office's director to re-examine whether the patent should have been issued.

    It was a development at the patent office that triggered last week's news reports. The office issued a preliminary finding in late February that Doyle's claims should not have been patented because they were based on prior discoveries. Eolas has 60 days to respond.

    Patent attorneys said it is common for examiners to strike down claims in a preliminary finding, the first step in a process that takes 12 to 18 months.

    Doyle's attorneys had not received a copy of the finding when a patent attorney working for Microsoft forwarded a copy to the Bloomberg reporter via e-mail. "The Patent Office has now invalidated all claims of the Eolas patent," the attorney's e-mail stated.

    Bloomberg's initial headline read, "Microsoft wins U.S. patent ruling that could save $521 million." Caught off-guard, Doyle's attorney did not comment for Bloomberg's first story.

    Later in the day, a Microsoft spokesman forwarded a copy of the patent office's finding to the Chicago Tribune, which reported the development the next day.

    "We and our attorneys have every confidence that the patent will emerge unscathed from this process," Doyle said in his e-mail to investors.

    Microsoft spokesman James Desler said the company's statement Friday made clear that the patent office's ruling was preliminary. He said he was unaware of the attorney's e-mail to Bloomberg until the wire service called him for comment.

    Copyright (C) 2004, Chicago Tribune