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City Officials Almost Ban Foam Cups
localhost00 writes "The city of Aliso Viejo, CA nearly banned foam cups when they learned they are produced from a substance known as 'dihydrogen monoxide.' A paralegal working for the city apparantly found a professionally designed web site put up to describe the dangerous properties of this chemical.
Apparantly, the report about Dihydrogen Monoxide was written by a then 14-year-old Nathan Zohner who was researching the gullibility of fifty ninth graders."
You know they forgot to put the word gullible in the dictionary right?
Thousands of people die on beaches every year from DHM inhalation.
Everything seemed to be going so nice
'till the end of all beings punched right through the ice
I hope no one tells them about the Pacific. We could be in serious trouble.
Dihydrogen Monoxide is nothing. It's not very dangerous. The real kill is the Hydrogen Hydroxide. Closely related but much more dangerous. We should ban it first.
Remember, 50% of people are below average...
In my experience they dont allow things on the internet that are not true. Case in point I will be getting a check from Bill Gates real soon as I have done my part and forwarded his email.
Come on people. This is the state that wanted to make oreo cookies an age restrictred item, and the state that required electronic equipment not to use the master/slave nomenclature because it offended only one person. Obviously they did zero research on this before they had their knee-jerk reaction. I bet we will soon see warnings on bottled water like we do some other items... "This product is known to the state of California to cause an unknown disease.." Remind me never to live there.
Latest news: the 14-year old has just been hired by SCO as their new "information minister"
I need to sue my employer now. I've been exposed to DHM for many years now, and I fear that it may be taking its toll on me. I've noticed many more wrinkles after particularly long sessions, not to mention a slickness to my skin.
Ah, the perils of lifeguarding.
Maybe this is why people shouldn't take any document on the Web at face value unless they check the sources or credentials. Not only can there be research study oriented "fake web pages", but there also can be pranks and out of date information (many pages do not have timestamps). I know many professors at my university view Web references as something that you use at last resort, when all other reference sources fail. However, another problem is that there IS a lot of good content on the web, and sometimes they disappear and can never be located again, unless they were lucky enough to have been crawled over by archive.org
Nice, law making officials have been put on the same level of discerning information as a class of high school freshman. This gives me great confidence in our legaslative bodies.
People react here just the same as ninth graders, it would seem.
But seriously, they shouldn't name that stuff so dangerously. I can understand the confusion. Erm, that's a standard naming convention for molecules. (IUPEC Naming maybe? Can't remember.)
I hate grammar Nazi's.
--
Google News is fun
"City Officials Almost Ban Foam Cups"
And this is almost news...
That stuff is nasty. Not only is it made from petroleum (America's crack), but it doesn't biodegrade and may leach toxins into the food it holds. Also, if it burns, it releases toxic particulates into the air.
The term "outside the box" is squarely within the box at this point.
From the state who wants to ban the use of "Master" and "Slave" in hard drive designations... God I hate California
Little Johnny was a chemist.
Little Johnny is no more.
'Cause what he thought was H2O.
Was really H2SO4
So before you start lambasting Kawhlefornia (Terminator speak for California), remember these shows prove it happens everywhere.
Oh look a puppy!
Funny, as a teenager I always thought of myself as being a lot more intelligent than the average adult (much to their chagrin) - and up until now (as I approach 30) I haven't seen much evidence showing I was wrong. I'm constantly running into cashiers who cannot make change without their cash register, salespeople who have no clue about the products they are selling, people who can barely spell (a visit to nearly any chat board is enough to turn my stomach). Seems like despite all the progress we seem to be making, the bottom half (two-thirds?) of our population seems to be regressing further and further. My Grandfather (who had to quit school in grade two to help his Dad on the farm) has writing and math skills that make him look like a scholar relative to the average McDonald's cashier with a high school diploma.
I think our approach to designing products aimed at the lowest common denominator might actually be responsible for all of this. Think about it the next time you pick up a cup of coffee with a warning on it stating that coffee is hot. If a paralegal (a "research expert" if you will) can be fooled by a smart 14-year old, what does that say about our society?
You'd think when they'd been in school THAT long, they wouldn't be so gullible!
You shouldn't take ANY document at face value... it doesn't matter if it's on the web or not.
this isn't an Internet thing... get a grip.
Why don't you embrace your slashbotness instead of living in a dreamworld?
Hydroxylic acid...
It makes dihydrogen monoxide look like water in comparison...
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
Pretty easy to take potshots at elected officials. In cases like this one, they're well deserved. However, I submit that expecting perfect decision-making 100% of the time from leaders is akin to expecting coders to write non-trivial code that works perfectly on first execution.
Which is not a blank check to politicians, letting them go out and debug their way to a reasonable course of action.
Ultimately, if we're that pissed off about stuff, we have to get involved, whereupon we'll see some of the complexities involved.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
I learned a lot from the recent election in California. I learned that you can get a job even when you have no qualifications. So, I've decided to be a supermodel.
You'll find that when they ban water and legalize marijuana, they're actually on crack.
...
They list a 1986 MSDS on the site, and a search confirms the entry. However, a search for the manufacturer points back to the hoax website. I think maybe msdsonline has falled for it, probably through lack of due diligence.
"I forgot my mantra."
I always place it on the head of an unsuspecting river otter and pour acetone on it. It instantly disintegrates and the otter whisks the remains away to a recycling center.
You're pretty optimistic. The article on snopes says one of the ninth-graders recognized it as water. Apparently, none of the officials did, otherwise it would have been stopped before they made complete asses of themselves.
I, OTOH, had my faith (or lack thereof) in bureaucrats confirmed.
Sure I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
That's right. Marathon runners are vulnerable to hyponatremia. Massive sweat + intake of unsalted water leads to sodium ion imbalance inside the body. It's one of those nasty conditions where the brain gets disoriented so the victim doesn't realize that they are headed for death.
Hyponatremia a Concern for Marathon Runners
I know the Slashdot stereotype is that nobody *here* has to worry about such things, but actually, I bet there are people in the Slashdot community who run this far and this hard.
It was an unelected paralegal doing the research who fell for the DHMO joke. Did you consider that along the way, someone (quite possibly an elected official) spotted the bad research and stopped the monkey business?
Trouble making decisions? Just flip for it.
I'm not worried about honest mistakes, but unhonest exploitation of the gullible does worry me. Legal professionals (the wealthy ones) understand all too well how to exaggerate the truth and worse, how to sugar-coat a lie.
Honest mistakes are forgivable. But, exaggeration on the other hand, well I'm not so sure about that.
__________________________________
Free your mind - Flush your toilet
Honest mistakes are forgivable. But, exaggeration on the other hand, well I'm not so sure about that.
In fact, exaggeration is utterly unforgivable in all circumstances.
No, it is actually technically correct. (The best kind of correct!) In chemistry naming conventions you usually use this sort of naming convention for binary nonmetal-nonmetal chemicals.
For example:
NO2 - nitrogen dioxide
N2O - dinitrogen monoxide
N2O5 - dinitrogen pentoxide
CO2 - carbon dioxide
So it does make sense to say:
H2O - dihydrogen monoxide
However the name hydrogen hydroxide is incorrect since that would indicate that the OH part of HOH (H2O ) is an ion and that the extra hydrogen is ionically bonded to it. This is not the case, in H2O both hydrogens are covalently bonded to the central oxygen atom.
You can see more about chemical naming conventions here.
Sapere aude!
Look, I've told you a million times, don't exaggerate
Troc.
Troc's dubious podcast and blog: http://www.trocnet.net
dihydrogen monoxide is nasty thing, which can harbor bacteria and other nasty things to you.
It is best to dilute it slightly with ethanol, as this kills the bugs.
Adding hops, barley, yeast, and letting it mix for a while is a very good way of adding the ethanol.
Yeah, and my first thought is that they were going to vote something a paralegal brought to them into law without checking it out???? I think that's an even worse reflection on these public officials.
Find coupons in Greeley
I can't even think of an example where someone with that background would involve themselves in politics.
Jimmy Carter.
I don't mean to be pedantic, but your point does expose a rift between different sorts of environmentalists. A true "tree hugger" would far prefer the use of styrofoam to that of paper which comes from - dare I say - trees!
Another great battle is over wind power. You'd think all the environmentalists would be on top of that one. Not so - it disrupts migratory patterns and splatters a lot of birds, so many conservationists are against it. Same with things like tidal power (similar effect on fish).
Again, pedanticism aside, the environmental "faction" is far more fractured than you might think. Frequently the anti-global-warming, conservation, and wilderness camps take diametrically opposing views.
You really should check your electronegativies before saying bonds are covalent. This is pretty basic chemistry and explains amongst other things why water is liquid at livable temperatures for we humans and many other phenomenon.
You can find more about naming of chemical structures via IUPAC the International Union of Pure and Applied Chemists
Bad Panda! No Bamboo for you! In matters of importance ACs will not be responded to. Want to say something critical,OK
"However, I submit that expecting perfect decision-making 100% of the time from leaders is akin to expecting coders to write non-trivial code that works perfectly on first execution."
If people are writing code that has similar effects to laws, ie people go to jail or get executed, get money taken from them by force in the form of fines, or otherwise effect people's lives in a nonvoluntary way, then they better damn well get it right on first execution after its release.
This is simply an indication that 95% of the population is scientifically illiterate.
Unfortunately science education is not mandatory like english and basic math are. Nor is it taught in a manner that supports curiousity and interest.
Given that we live in an increasingly technical dependent society it's scary to find pseudoscience and scientific ignorance so rapidly on the rise. For those struggling to separate science and pseudoscience, a good book putting science's role into a clearer perspective is Carl Sagan's book: "The Demon Haunted World, Science as a Candle in the Dark." I have a few copies and lend it to people when they need it. (Note: there are other good books too this is just one that comes to mind).
The underlying skills of critical thought and a healthy dose of skepticism are the basis of good science. Even basic concepts like Occam's razor are not widely understood or accepted. People need to be made to understand that science is not just ugly formulas in physics class, but that it forms the basis for all things that define our modern high standard of living.
If less than 1% of congress men ever elected have any scientific background how do you expect them to put forth a meaningful policy on scientific education or even understand basic issues.
Rather than sitting here in self congratulatory bliss about other people ignorance, we should take our responsibility as the scientifically literate (to some degree anyway) seriously and do what we can to educate people around us. Take an active role in science outreach programs, or at the very least lobby your elected representatives.
Yes, it is a slow difficult up hill battle, but 300 years ago 95% of the population was illiterate, today most can read and write. This is mostly due to a number of dedicated individuals that convinced their government of the need for literacy.
Ignorance is bliss... Unfortunately for me its to late...
----- "Profanity is the one language that all programmers understand."
Its never happened, as far as the medical lit. I know about is concerned. It has a self-limiting factor: you'll get so high that you'll pass out or be unable to move well before you're able to consume enough THC to cause any sort of fatal overdose effect (excluding, of course, asphixiating because you pass out on your face or something along those lines).
"Stumble before you crawl"
No, this should be a cautionary tale in so many ways:
1. Just because it's on the Internet does not make it an authoritative source. I find the Internet to be a large shallow source, good for getting a direction and possible further sources for research, but not a replacement for libraries, technical journals/publications and a thousand other, more traditional, knowledge resources.
2. In the words of Mark Twain, "common sense isn't!"
3. Intelligence is not a prime prerequisite for paralegals or politicians.
Pretty easy to take potshots at elected officials...
Politicians make it soooo easy to take potshots at them! If they don't like being shot at, maybe they should quit painting targets on themselves. In other words, if they don't like being called stupid, they should stop doing stupid things!
No-one is expecting them to know chemistry, they are expecting them to want more than a slick website as proof that a substance needs a ban.
Otherwise you could just make a slick web page saying that Windows gives you cancer, and they'd ban it too!
Hey, wait a minute....
~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
Hyponatremia can be a problem, though rarely in a normal person (IIAD, BTW).
The most common scenario where I've seen symptomatic hyponatremia in a non-athlete is in a syndrome called SIADH (AKA: Syndrome of Inappropriate Anti-Diuretic Hormone). I've rarely seen it in psychiatric patients who compulsively drink massive quantities of fluids as part of their psychosis... Believe it or not, it's actually possible to drink enough water that you dilute out your electrolytes.
Anti-Diuretic Hormone is what determines the final concentration of your urine (ie. how much free water your kidneys scavenge from the filtrate in your kidneys)... it works in the kidney's distal tubules. Interestingly, ADH is inhibited by ethanol. Ever wonder how beer seems to go through you so quickly? Well, the answer is that it really doesn't... part of that massive urination is from the alcohol inhibiting ADH secretion, your kidneys start dumping free water, and you start peeing like a racehorse. The result? You get dehydrated; one of the major contributors to the discomfort of hangovers. Heh... a bag or two of IV fluids does wonders for a hangover.
Dilutional Hyponatremia is relatively easy to fix (obviously depending on severity)... just restrict fluid intake. In the case of SIADH, you also have to hunt for the cause... some lung cancers are notorious for secreting excess Anti-Diuretic Hormone.
Note that severe hyponatremia is life-threatening... you can have refractory seizures, coma, and profound mental status changes. Fixing it too quickly is also dangerous, and can cause a nasty (and permanent) condition called Central Pontine Myelinolysis... definitely not on the top-ten-diseases-to-have list.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
Most people are wholly unaware of the fact that Jimmy Carter went to Georgia Tech and became a nuclear engineer for the Navy. Sam Nunn also started out as an industrial engineer at Georgia Tech before heading off to Emory & Emory Law to eventually graduate with a law degree.
Besides, the grandparent poster short-changes those of us who do have science/math backgrounds, who are passionate about politics, and who have considered getting more involved.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Don't pitch Ecstasy like it's a harmless medication... it is not. (Disclaimer: I'm an ER physician, and I've treated ecstasy users)
Ecstasy (MDMA) is chemically related to the amphetamine family, and has many of the same effects. One of the side-effects of Ecstasy is hyperthermia... an elevation of body temperature that can lead to rhabdomyolysis (mass breakdown of muscle tissue, often leading to kidney failure), brain damage, and death.
Ecstasy acts primarily on the serotonergic and dopaminergic neurons in the CNS, and appears to irreversably harm the former (documented pathologically in animal studies, and observationally in humans). Interestingly, Prozac and some of the SSRI drugs seem to partially antagonize the effects of Ecstasy (but if you're planning on stopping your anti-depressant so you can get a better buzz on the weekend, you need serious help).
There's another problem: you never know what you're getting when you buy street drugs. Unless you have a degree in organic chemistry and are making your own (which can be done), it pays to be cautious.
Maybe you've taken ecstasy hundreds of times and had no problem... good for you. But ecstasy is not harmless... I've seen it go wrong, and it's not pretty.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
From the /usr/games/fortune database:
"Oxygen is a very toxic gas and an extreme fire hazard. It is fatal in
concentrations of as little as 0.000001 p.p.m. Humans exposed to the
oxygen concentrations die within a few minutes. Symptoms resemble very
much those of cyanide poisoning (blue face, etc.). In higher
concentrations, e.g. 20%, the toxic effect is somewhat delayed and it
takes about 2.5 billion inhalations before death takes place. The reason
for the delay is the difference in the mechanism of the toxic effect of
oxygen in 20% concentration. It apparently contributes to a complex
process called aging, of which very little is known, except that it is
always fatal.
However, the main disadvantage of the 20% oxygen concentration is in the
fact it is habit forming. The first inhalation (occurring at birth) is
sufficient to make oxygen addiction permanent. After that, any
considerable decrease in the daily oxygen doses results in death with
symptoms resembling those of cyanide poisoning.
Oxygen is an extreme fire hazard. All of the fires that were reported in
the continental U.S. for the period of the past 25 years were found to be
due to the presence of this gas in the atmosphere surrounding the buildings
in question.
Oxygen is especially dangerous because it is odorless, colorless and
tasteless, so that its presence can not be readily detected until it is
too late.
-- Chemical & Engineering News February 6, 1956"
I live in Soviet Canuckistan you insensitive clod!
If I remember my chemistry correctly, dihydrogen monoxide is incorrect because the molecule splits into H+ and OH- ions. It should be hydrogen hydroxide. I made the same mistake in chemistry class in 1964.