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City Officials Almost Ban Foam Cups
localhost00 writes "The city of Aliso Viejo, CA nearly banned foam cups when they learned they are produced from a substance known as 'dihydrogen monoxide.' A paralegal working for the city apparantly found a professionally designed web site put up to describe the dangerous properties of this chemical.
Apparantly, the report about Dihydrogen Monoxide was written by a then 14-year-old Nathan Zohner who was researching the gullibility of fifty ninth graders."
Tricked by a 14 year old, what is the government in CA comming too.
You know they forgot to put the word gullible in the dictionary right?
Thousands of people die on beaches every year from DHM inhalation.
Everything seemed to be going so nice
'till the end of all beings punched right through the ice
I hope no one tells them about the Pacific. We could be in serious trouble.
Dihydrogen Monoxide is nothing. It's not very dangerous. The real kill is the Hydrogen Hydroxide. Closely related but much more dangerous. We should ban it first.
Remember, 50% of people are below average...
In my experience they dont allow things on the internet that are not true. Case in point I will be getting a check from Bill Gates real soon as I have done my part and forwarded his email.
Come on people. This is the state that wanted to make oreo cookies an age restrictred item, and the state that required electronic equipment not to use the master/slave nomenclature because it offended only one person. Obviously they did zero research on this before they had their knee-jerk reaction. I bet we will soon see warnings on bottled water like we do some other items... "This product is known to the state of California to cause an unknown disease.." Remind me never to live there.
Latest news: the 14-year old has just been hired by SCO as their new "information minister"
I need to sue my employer now. I've been exposed to DHM for many years now, and I fear that it may be taking its toll on me. I've noticed many more wrinkles after particularly long sessions, not to mention a slickness to my skin.
Ah, the perils of lifeguarding.
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
Maybe this is why people shouldn't take any document on the Web at face value unless they check the sources or credentials. Not only can there be research study oriented "fake web pages", but there also can be pranks and out of date information (many pages do not have timestamps). I know many professors at my university view Web references as something that you use at last resort, when all other reference sources fail. However, another problem is that there IS a lot of good content on the web, and sometimes they disappear and can never be located again, unless they were lucky enough to have been crawled over by archive.org
People react here just the same as ninth graders, it would seem.
But seriously, they shouldn't name that stuff so dangerously. I can understand the confusion. Erm, that's a standard naming convention for molecules. (IUPEC Naming maybe? Can't remember.)
I hate grammar Nazi's.
I find it worrying that any kind of person in government (even local government) could be so
pig ignorant of basic science that they'd fall for
this hoax. Didn't they listen AT ALL at school? But this seems to be a general problem in the population as a whole , even amongst suppposed intellectuals (read: arts & MBA
graduates) and yet amazingly they're not even usually embarrsed about it. The only reason they are in this story is because it was made public. If their ignorance was revealed in private
they probably wouldn't give a damn , yet if they'd found to be wanting in knowledge of business or the humanities they'd probably go red faced.
--
Google News is fun
"City Officials Almost Ban Foam Cups"
And this is almost news...
That stuff is nasty. Not only is it made from petroleum (America's crack), but it doesn't biodegrade and may leach toxins into the food it holds. Also, if it burns, it releases toxic particulates into the air.
The term "outside the box" is squarely within the box at this point.
Little Johnny was a chemist.
Little Johnny is no more.
'Cause what he thought was H2O.
Was really H2SO4
This product is known to the state of California to cause an unknown disease.
The state of California is an unknown disease.
Di-Hydrogen Monoxide isn't the proper name for water. That would imply a H2 ion bonded to a O ion. IIRC, this is not correcct. It's been ten years since I took chemistry, but shouldn't it really be Hydrogen Hydroxide? (H bonded to OH)
SirWired
So before you start lambasting Kawhlefornia (Terminator speak for California), remember these shows prove it happens everywhere.
Oh look a puppy!
Funny, as a teenager I always thought of myself as being a lot more intelligent than the average adult (much to their chagrin) - and up until now (as I approach 30) I haven't seen much evidence showing I was wrong. I'm constantly running into cashiers who cannot make change without their cash register, salespeople who have no clue about the products they are selling, people who can barely spell (a visit to nearly any chat board is enough to turn my stomach). Seems like despite all the progress we seem to be making, the bottom half (two-thirds?) of our population seems to be regressing further and further. My Grandfather (who had to quit school in grade two to help his Dad on the farm) has writing and math skills that make him look like a scholar relative to the average McDonald's cashier with a high school diploma.
I think our approach to designing products aimed at the lowest common denominator might actually be responsible for all of this. Think about it the next time you pick up a cup of coffee with a warning on it stating that coffee is hot. If a paralegal (a "research expert" if you will) can be fooled by a smart 14-year old, what does that say about our society?
The DHMO site is at least 6 years old. I used to have it linked on my science education web site. I was smart enough to put it under the category of "weird science" or "science humor". Can't remember which as it is no longer active. Thought it was funny and didn't think anyone would ever buy into it... well anyone who actually graduated the 7th grade, at least.
You'd think when they'd been in school THAT long, they wouldn't be so gullible!
I think the first thing they should ban is that paralegal, from ever having access to politicians enough to convince them of crap like that.
But, Seriouslly, they really should ban styrofoam cups, those things take forever to degrade, and are nasty pollutants. USe paper cups instead!
You shouldn't take ANY document at face value... it doesn't matter if it's on the web or not.
this isn't an Internet thing... get a grip.
Why don't you embrace your slashbotness instead of living in a dreamworld?
Hydroxylic acid...
It makes dihydrogen monoxide look like water in comparison...
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
I think the naming depends on which radical donates the electron, but I'm not a chemist.
Patrick Doyle
I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
I learned a lot from the recent election in California. I learned that you can get a job even when you have no qualifications. So, I've decided to be a supermodel.
They list a 1986 MSDS on the site, and a search confirms the entry. However, a search for the manufacturer points back to the hoax website. I think maybe msdsonline has falled for it, probably through lack of due diligence.
"I forgot my mantra."
Duh, it's a hoax.
/.'ers would look into something this much, i'm proud to be one of them :-p
Since when have hoaxes needed accurate info?
Only geeks or
Error 407 - No creative sig found
I always place it on the head of an unsuspecting river otter and pour acetone on it. It instantly disintegrates and the otter whisks the remains away to a recycling center.
Penn and Teller, on thier Showtime show 'Bullshit' did a similair trick to expose the ridiculous ignorance of the liberals at this earth-day type event. They went around and got a tons of signatures from people for thier support in the ban of 'dihydrogen-monoxide'. it was pretty damn funny and it did well in exposing the lack of credibility on the part of these groups.
That's right. Marathon runners are vulnerable to hyponatremia. Massive sweat + intake of unsalted water leads to sodium ion imbalance inside the body. It's one of those nasty conditions where the brain gets disoriented so the victim doesn't realize that they are headed for death.
Hyponatremia a Concern for Marathon Runners
I know the Slashdot stereotype is that nobody *here* has to worry about such things, but actually, I bet there are people in the Slashdot community who run this far and this hard.
No, it is actually technically correct. (The best kind of correct!) In chemistry naming conventions you usually use this sort of naming convention for binary nonmetal-nonmetal chemicals.
For example:
NO2 - nitrogen dioxide
N2O - dinitrogen monoxide
N2O5 - dinitrogen pentoxide
CO2 - carbon dioxide
So it does make sense to say:
H2O - dihydrogen monoxide
However the name hydrogen hydroxide is incorrect since that would indicate that the OH part of HOH (H2O ) is an ion and that the extra hydrogen is ionically bonded to it. This is not the case, in H2O both hydrogens are covalently bonded to the central oxygen atom.
You can see more about chemical naming conventions here.
Sapere aude!
dihydrogen monoxide is nasty thing, which can harbor bacteria and other nasty things to you.
It is best to dilute it slightly with ethanol, as this kills the bugs.
Adding hops, barley, yeast, and letting it mix for a while is a very good way of adding the ethanol.
IAAC...
o gen+oxide&Units=SI
The correct name is "dihydrogen oxide". Theres no need to put the "mono" on the oxygen. If you dont believe me, you can look at NIST's chemistry webbook...
http://webbook.nist.gov/cgi/cbook.cgi?Name=Dihydr
the byproduct of years of oppression by the white man
Anyway the inspectors came around to check them out; and insisted on knowing what their cleanup method would be if they spilled the stuff.
"We don't need one."
At this point the inspector went into rant mode, threatening extensive punitive penalties if a cleanup methodology wasn't produced immediately.
(Indeed so effective was the desert at catalysing the peroxide, the team were jokingly considering abandoning their expensive silver catalysts, and using desert instead... but I digress.)
-WolfWithoutAClause
"Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"> I think our approach to designing products aimed at the lowest common denominator
This is a consequence, not the cause. The problem is our education system and the way it encourages stupidity. Read about that and the solution to it in th
Montessori Method. It's old and, sadly, is the sort of stuff nobody teaches children any more.
I don't mean to be pedantic, but your point does expose a rift between different sorts of environmentalists. A true "tree hugger" would far prefer the use of styrofoam to that of paper which comes from - dare I say - trees!
Another great battle is over wind power. You'd think all the environmentalists would be on top of that one. Not so - it disrupts migratory patterns and splatters a lot of birds, so many conservationists are against it. Same with things like tidal power (similar effect on fish).
Again, pedanticism aside, the environmental "faction" is far more fractured than you might think. Frequently the anti-global-warming, conservation, and wilderness camps take diametrically opposing views.
You really should check your electronegativies before saying bonds are covalent. This is pretty basic chemistry and explains amongst other things why water is liquid at livable temperatures for we humans and many other phenomenon.
You can find more about naming of chemical structures via IUPAC the International Union of Pure and Applied Chemists
Bad Panda! No Bamboo for you! In matters of importance ACs will not be responded to. Want to say something critical,OK
This is simply an indication that 95% of the population is scientifically illiterate.
Unfortunately science education is not mandatory like english and basic math are. Nor is it taught in a manner that supports curiousity and interest.
Given that we live in an increasingly technical dependent society it's scary to find pseudoscience and scientific ignorance so rapidly on the rise. For those struggling to separate science and pseudoscience, a good book putting science's role into a clearer perspective is Carl Sagan's book: "The Demon Haunted World, Science as a Candle in the Dark." I have a few copies and lend it to people when they need it. (Note: there are other good books too this is just one that comes to mind).
The underlying skills of critical thought and a healthy dose of skepticism are the basis of good science. Even basic concepts like Occam's razor are not widely understood or accepted. People need to be made to understand that science is not just ugly formulas in physics class, but that it forms the basis for all things that define our modern high standard of living.
If less than 1% of congress men ever elected have any scientific background how do you expect them to put forth a meaningful policy on scientific education or even understand basic issues.
Rather than sitting here in self congratulatory bliss about other people ignorance, we should take our responsibility as the scientifically literate (to some degree anyway) seriously and do what we can to educate people around us. Take an active role in science outreach programs, or at the very least lobby your elected representatives.
Yes, it is a slow difficult up hill battle, but 300 years ago 95% of the population was illiterate, today most can read and write. This is mostly due to a number of dedicated individuals that convinced their government of the need for literacy.
Ignorance is bliss... Unfortunately for me its to late...
----- "Profanity is the one language that all programmers understand."
Actually Chemistry nomenclature is a fun game, as a number of different systems are valid. The catch all rule with things like water is it goes by a "common" name, like ammonia or methane or salt.
For your amusement some other ways of naming water:
Hydrogen oxide (the isotope of hydrogen, duetrium has duetrium oxide)
dihydrogen monoxide (it is valid by one sytem which is used to name binary compounds of nonmetals. ex:
N2O5 = dinitrogen pentoxide)
Hydrohydroxic acid (in the acid system, like HCl)
hydrogen hydroxide (base nomenclature, like Sodium hydroxide)
hydroxic acid (like H2S is hydrosulfuric acid)
Hydronium hydroxide (like ammonium hydroxide)
anyhows, I think you get the point. From a practical stand point this exact problem makes it a pain to order chemicals from a catalog often times!
Organicsculpture.com
Hyponatremia can be a problem, though rarely in a normal person (IIAD, BTW).
The most common scenario where I've seen symptomatic hyponatremia in a non-athlete is in a syndrome called SIADH (AKA: Syndrome of Inappropriate Anti-Diuretic Hormone). I've rarely seen it in psychiatric patients who compulsively drink massive quantities of fluids as part of their psychosis... Believe it or not, it's actually possible to drink enough water that you dilute out your electrolytes.
Anti-Diuretic Hormone is what determines the final concentration of your urine (ie. how much free water your kidneys scavenge from the filtrate in your kidneys)... it works in the kidney's distal tubules. Interestingly, ADH is inhibited by ethanol. Ever wonder how beer seems to go through you so quickly? Well, the answer is that it really doesn't... part of that massive urination is from the alcohol inhibiting ADH secretion, your kidneys start dumping free water, and you start peeing like a racehorse. The result? You get dehydrated; one of the major contributors to the discomfort of hangovers. Heh... a bag or two of IV fluids does wonders for a hangover.
Dilutional Hyponatremia is relatively easy to fix (obviously depending on severity)... just restrict fluid intake. In the case of SIADH, you also have to hunt for the cause... some lung cancers are notorious for secreting excess Anti-Diuretic Hormone.
Note that severe hyponatremia is life-threatening... you can have refractory seizures, coma, and profound mental status changes. Fixing it too quickly is also dangerous, and can cause a nasty (and permanent) condition called Central Pontine Myelinolysis... definitely not on the top-ten-diseases-to-have list.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
Most people are wholly unaware of the fact that Jimmy Carter went to Georgia Tech and became a nuclear engineer for the Navy. Sam Nunn also started out as an industrial engineer at Georgia Tech before heading off to Emory & Emory Law to eventually graduate with a law degree.
Besides, the grandparent poster short-changes those of us who do have science/math backgrounds, who are passionate about politics, and who have considered getting more involved.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Don't pitch Ecstasy like it's a harmless medication... it is not. (Disclaimer: I'm an ER physician, and I've treated ecstasy users)
Ecstasy (MDMA) is chemically related to the amphetamine family, and has many of the same effects. One of the side-effects of Ecstasy is hyperthermia... an elevation of body temperature that can lead to rhabdomyolysis (mass breakdown of muscle tissue, often leading to kidney failure), brain damage, and death.
Ecstasy acts primarily on the serotonergic and dopaminergic neurons in the CNS, and appears to irreversably harm the former (documented pathologically in animal studies, and observationally in humans). Interestingly, Prozac and some of the SSRI drugs seem to partially antagonize the effects of Ecstasy (but if you're planning on stopping your anti-depressant so you can get a better buzz on the weekend, you need serious help).
There's another problem: you never know what you're getting when you buy street drugs. Unless you have a degree in organic chemistry and are making your own (which can be done), it pays to be cautious.
Maybe you've taken ecstasy hundreds of times and had no problem... good for you. But ecstasy is not harmless... I've seen it go wrong, and it's not pretty.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
If I remember my chemistry correctly, dihydrogen monoxide is incorrect because the molecule splits into H+ and OH- ions. It should be hydrogen hydroxide. I made the same mistake in chemistry class in 1964.
After long sessions of dealing with infected MS machines, I can tell you truthfully that they do cause extreme illness with symptoms including:
a) Increased heartrate, anger
b) Sweaty palms
c) Migraines
d) Vision impairment
Of course, other OS's aren't so great either... I've noticed a trend of body odour and poor social tendancies that seem to afflict Linux users, and the Mac users generally seem to suffer from some form of uncomfortable constipation issue.
Perhaps you've heard of it: a colorless, odorless liquid; a powerful coolant and solvent; an easily- synthesized compound which is used by industry, the military, commercial operations, and even private individuals.
Yes, we are talking about hydrogen hydroxide, also known as dihydrogen monoxide, and we are here to tell you that what you've heard about DHMO is probably not the whole truth. There are forces out there, such as the Coalition to Ban Dihydrogen Monoxide, who would seek to legislate its use and availability, placing heavy limitations on it-- and eventually, eradicating it entirely.
In the interest of fairness, we invite you to see their argument, and then we urge you to return here, to learn the truth. Their subversive agenda must not be allowed to prevail.
Hydrogen hydroxide is beneficial!
It has been shown that hydrogen hydroxide enhances the functionality, growth, and health of many forms of life-- including humans!-- and current research suggests that it has become an integral part of our planet's ecological balance. Hydrogen hydroxide is environmentally safe! Opponents of dihydrogen monoxide would have you believe that it is some kind of uber-toxin, that it wreaks caustic terror on anything it touches. This couldn't be farther from the truth; when handled properly, it enhances nature rather than destroys it, and even a worst-case scenario DHMO accident would be a trifle for the natural cycles of our world to handle. Hydrogen hydroxide is benign! The Coalition and others have popularized the label "dihydrogen monoxide" over the more chemically-accurate "hydrogen hydroxide" because they know how loaded the former name is. "Monoxide" has become synonymous with pollution, toxic gases, industrial waste-- and while hydrogen hydroxide is sometimes a factor in these problems facing our world today, it is rarely the dangerous element. Hydrogen hydroxide occurs in nature! To hear its naysayers' descriptions, one would think hydrogen hydroxide was solely the product of industrial technology; that it came from years of research in clandestine labs. This is not the case! Hydrogen hydroxide has been a part of nature longer than we have; what gives us the right to eliminate it? We need hydrogen hydroxide! Don't let an uneducated and terror-stricken mob of fanatics railroad you into giving up your right to choose!Support the use and distribution of hydrogen hydroxide in your neighborhood, city, state, and country!
Calling atheism and agnosticism a religion is like calling bald a hair color.
One more similar hilarious joke site:
Creationist Science Fair
Can anyone tell me how to set my sig on Slashdot?