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Gates: Hardware, Not Software, Will Be Free

orthogonal writes "That's small-'f', not capital-'F' free: according to Bill Gates, "Ten years out, in terms of actual hardware costs you can almost think of hardware as being free -- I'm not saying it will be absolutely free --...." Gates expects this almost free hardware to support two of the longest awaited breakthroughs in computing: real speech and handwriting recognition. He further predicts -- ugh! -- that software will not be written but visually designed."

100 of 993 comments (clear)

  1. Visual design by SlashDread · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ah,

    but who will visually debug the visual designer?

    "/Dread"

    1. Re:Visual design by The+One+KEA · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Indeed - and how likely is it that a visually-designed program will be even worse than a text program, considering that most programs will end up "looking pretty" in the program editor but act positively horrible for the enduser...

      --
      SCREW THE ADS! http://adblock.mozdev.org/ Proud user of teh Fox of Fire - Registered Linux User #289618
    2. Re:Visual design by spektr · · Score: 4, Funny

      but who will visually debug the visual designer?

      First person shooter. Kill the bugs, capture the features...

    3. Re:Visual design by SlashDread · · Score: 5, Funny

      OREILLY, The werewolf book: "Managing systems with the DOOM shell" subtitle: "How to kill -9 a zombie with your BFG."

      "/Dread"

    4. Re:Visual design by mahdi13 · · Score: 3, Funny
      considering that most programs will end up "looking pretty" in the program editor but act positively horrible for the enduser...
      Sounds like Windows
      --
      "Some things have to be believed to be seen." - Ralph Hodgson
    5. Re:Visual design by grub · · Score: 5, Interesting


      First person shooter.

      This reminds me of a cool hack that uses Doom as a "process manager". Killing a Doom baddie basically "kill -9"s the process.

      --
      Trolling is a art,
    6. Re:Visual design by UserGoogol · · Score: 4, Funny

      It's turtles all the way down, my dear.

      --
      "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." -- Hanlon's Razor
    7. Re:Visual design by 1781 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Ah, yes. Jest about it, but the UML-people has been working on visual programming for years. Perhaps there is a mutual interest... UMSL?

      --
      We never stop running. But while running, we're looking for weapons
    8. Re:Visual design by MooCows · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not that I've seen the source code, but something tells me Windows does not "look pretty" on Microsoft's side.

      --
      The path I walk alone is endlessly long.
      30 minutes by bike, 15 by bus.
    9. Re:Visual design by Dashing+Leech · · Score: 4, Insightful
      ...how likely is it that a visually-designed program will be even worse than a text program...

      Depends on how it is done. There are some well designed visual modeling & simulation development tools for electronics (Simulink, PSpice, etc.) and mechanical systems (finite element, etc.) These do a relatively good job of simulating "systems". Software processes are not that different from physical processes in electronics and mechanical system. Software rules (e.g., syntax) are analagous to physical laws.

      I actually think this is a good idea, if done properly (i.e., not by Microsoft). I'd be a little surprised if this hasn't already been done, I guess nobody has done it well yet.

      Perhaps a good open source project. In fact, it could be a big stepping stone for open source. If visual programming (no, not as in Visual C/C++, Basic, etc.) makes programming easier and faster, think of how many more people (like me) could get involved in open source projects. I actually really like this idea.

    10. Re:Visual design by Dark+Lord+Seth · · Score: 5, Funny
      Console Log, starting at 11:23, 30-04-2004
      Maps: DM-Slahsdot_ext, DM-AOL_HQ, DM-Whitehouse ( cycling )
      Mods: ( none )
      Game type: Team Deathmatch

      Loading graphics... Done.
      Loading config files... Done.
      Loading map ( Dm-Slashdot_ext ) ... Done.

      Loading players:

      NOTICE: Player "SlashDread" entered the level for team RED
      NOTICE: Player "Spektr" entered the level for team RED
      NOTICE: Player "Dark_Lord_Seth" entered the level for team RED

      Loading bots:

      NOTICE: Player "TYPE_MISMATCH_233" entered the level for team BLUE
      NOTICE: Player "BUFFER_OVERFLOW_12" entered the level for team BLUE
      NOTICE: Player "BUFFER_OVERFLOW_13" entered the level for team BLUE
      NOTICE: Player "TYPE_MISMATCH_234" entered the level for team BLUE
      NOTICE: Player "ARRAY_OUT_OF_BOUNS_298" entered the level for team BLUE
      NOTICE: Player "UNDECLARED_POINTER_34" entered the level for team BLUE
      NOTICE: Player "UNDEFINED_MACRO_65" entered the level for team BLUE
      NOTICE: Player "ENDLESS_LOOP_43" entered the level for team BLUE

      INFO: Game starts!

      Say :: Global ( Spektr ) "TEAMS!!!"
      Say :: Global ( SlashDread ) "AAARGH!!!"
      Say :: Global ( Dark_Lord_Seth ) "FF = on!!!"
      Print :: Global "Spektr riddled BUFFER_OVERFLOW_13 full of holes with his gatling cannon!"
      Say :: Global ( Spektr ) "Ownage!"
      Print :: Global "SlashDread firmly planted a 40mm anti-tank round in UNDECLARED_POINTER_34's gut!"
      Print :: Global "Spektr introduced ENDLESS_LOOP_43 to a shrapnel grenade!"
      Print :: Global "TYPE_MISMATCH_234 had a close encounter with a tungsten slug from Dark_Lord_Seth's railgun!"
      Print :: Global "SlashDread had a close encounter with a tungsten slug from Dark_Lord_Seth's railgun!"
      Say :: Global ( SlashDread ) "TEAMKILLER!!!"
      Say :: Global ( Dark_Lord_Seth ) "Sorry!"
      Print :: Global "ARRAY_OUT_OF_BOUNS_298 slaughtered Dark_Lord_Seth with the TacNuke!"
      Print :: Global "ARRAY_OUT_OF_BOUNS_298 slaughtered Spektre with the TacNuke!"

      INFO: Game ends!

      INFO: Team BLUE wins the match!
    11. Re:Visual design by dasmegabyte · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Whoa here, buddy.

      Software, even software written in text, even OSS, is already visually designed. It always has been. Flow charts, diagrams, screenshot mockups -- shit, I've gotten specs that were nothing more than a drawing on a paper plate.

      The only difference is that Bill forsees getting rid of the intermediate step of writing code to represent the visual system. Which is not, inherently, a bad idea, as that's the step that introduces the most bugs. Some humans are great optimizers, but the average coder is not very good at it. Therefore, using visual tools to generate efficient, secure, bug-free code would be ideal. I use VS.NET and Eclipse and I have to admit: when I use the visual tools for constructing datasets, my code is far less buggy and no slower than if I'd written it myself. I continue to write it myself because I like to, and nobody's caught wind of the fact that half the bugs in my folder are due to this stubbornness.

      And personally, I don't know what the FUCK you're talkign about. Programs that look pretty but don't work can be written in any IDE. A skilled coder will take the best tools available and use them to great advantage. A shitty coder will take the best tools available and make something that doesn't work. It seems to me your only complaint is that if something doesn't work, it should LOOK like it doesn't work. And since there's no method in any toolkit I can think of to make an interface look trashy, it sounds to me you've just got sour grapes.

      (Oh, and please don't reply to this citing some irony you feel inmy associating Microsoft with "efficient, bug free code." That's an argument of a different color, and I'm kind of playing devil's advocate in that shade. I should point out that the .NET Framework is easily on par with Java's Framework when it started to impress me in these areas, only much faster and less stochastic, which leads me to believe that it was stubborn coding practices that caused MS' security gap in the first place.)

      --
      Hey freaks: now you're ju
    12. Re:Visual design by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Has been done both for smalltalk (parts) and for C++ etc. (VisualAge). Both parts programs and VA programs tend to become an unvieldy mesh of colored lines going from buttons to functions to data and back to UI fields etc.

      Just try to visualize (pun intended) a fairly simple event driven program with lines connecting all events, triggers, functions, data and UI components and you get the idea.

    13. Re:Visual design by prell · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Just a general note, since it looks like it came up a couple times: I don't think Gates meant RAD or anything RAD-like. Note: "He further predicts -- ugh! -- that software will not be written but visually designed."

      Software is written because software is a set of instructions. Software is a set of scripts that respond to events. If software were spatial and totally right-brain (and analogous to engineering or construction), AI would work, and software would probably rely on the immutable laws of physics and chemistry, rather than homespun rules. When I write software, it is frequently because I am taking a "break" from other totally creative pursuits.

      The only visual constructions relating to software engineering (SE) that I consider appropriate, are those that relate a large system in terms of its data, logic, and interfaces. This is not necessarily the Rational Unified Process with UML -- indeed, I tend to think people take that too far (eXtreme Programming seems to take a nice perspective on SE in this regard). People also like to relate Classes to real-world objects, usually real-world objects that relate to "parts" of the project. This is tempting but is, I feel, usually inappropriate! A good compromise is a balance between the format of the data (with appropriate, thin, "agnostic bridges"/Classes) and an easy access point for real logic (the Model, of the MVC pattern). I would also recommend a sort of laid-back attitude when developing software: don't live your life by a paradigm or methodology, especially in an immature field (SE) that has a lifetime of problems to solve. You know what problems need to be solved. You also know that not once did you wish you could draw a picture instead of write code. I mean, what the hell? Someone take Johnny Mnemonic away from Gates.

      If the software you write, however, is modular enough that you can arrange the pieces/modules/methods like components in a circuit, then go for it. However, this level of widespread code reuse is frankly fantasy; reuse will remain, I believe, as it has: generic libraries used in a custom fashion, i.e., not suitable to be "visually" "dropped-in." Code generation is nice, but it's only appropriate for certain large-scale applications (like large database-driven applications).

      If one is to believe Gates on this issue, one is also compelled to believe that Microsoft's research and development department has created software practices at the forefront of software engineering (and indeed computer science. Remember computer science?). I do not believe this to be the case, and I'd make the indictment that this "release" by Gates is purely worldfair in nature, and is for the hoi polloi.

    14. Re:Visual design by The_K4 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have windows XP on my work system and explorer crashs at least once a week, it usually recovers without a reboot but now all the icons in the system tray are missng and I have a ton of orphaned processes and some of my programs *cough*word*cough* can't aceess the file system to save. Now before you go off saying "it's hardware" this same computer ran 2K for 8 months perfectly. Now I know many people who use XP just fine, but I also know many people who have problems. There is not "perfect os for everyone", everyone needs to use what works best for them.

    15. Re:Visual design by essreenim · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yes,
      And he intends for this speech recognition s/w to
      take up no more than 64k of memory - just like
      WinXp.

    16. Re:Visual design by pomakis · · Score: 5, Insightful
      The only difference is that Bill forsees getting rid of the intermediate step of writing code to represent the visual system. Which is not, inherently, a bad idea, as that's the step that introduces the most bugs.

      Yeah, but that happens to also be the step that introduces the details of the logic! These details can't be magically derived. They must be crafted by a programmer. If that involves drawing lots of highly detailed pictures within pictures at the "design" level, then fine, but it wouldn't make anything less complex or less bug-ridden. For the most part, the complexity of programming is inherent. Abstraction and the use of building-block libraries help tremendously, of course, but these techniques work just as well in the written-programming-language world as they do in the design-by-drawing-pictures world.

    17. Re:Visual design by pavon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have programmed mediums to large size systems using LabView, graphical programming language designed for non-CS engineer types to implement Test and Measurement Systems (think automating rackmounted supplies, meters for QA etc). So I thought I'd share my experience with ya'll. For perspective, most the work I had done before was in C or C++, with various toolkits.

      The basic unit of code in LabView is called a VI (Virtual Instrament - think function). When creating a VI you have two parts - the Front Panel (interface) and the Block Diagram (implementation). On the front panel you create a bunch of widgets which serve as the input and output to the VI. Each control has it's own data type for example numeric controls, and sliders are int or float, buttons, swithes and LED's are binary, text feilds are string, pulldowns are enum, etc. You have an array controls and cluster (think struct) controls which can contain other controls. You also have a few highlevel controls like a graph for the waveform type, and some abstract types for standard error handling, and references for open instrement objects, ActiveX objects etc. You should also draw an icon for the VI, which will be it's representation when being called from other VIs. So basically every function you write automatically has a user interface, which doubles as it's signature declaration. This comes in handy when doing black box testing.

      Now in the Block Diagram these controls show up as input and output terminals, which you wire to other things. For example you can call other VIs, by wiring data to the inputs on the left of the VI icon and the outputs on the right hand side. The types on both ends of the wires must match and the wires are drawn with different colors to indicate their type (derived from whatever their input is - you don't have to explicitly specify wire type).There are no variables (well there are globals, but you don't use them much) data just flows from the input terminals to the output terminals, with the runtime system executing whatever happens to be in the way and taking care of memory management.

      You have all the standard flow control constructs. A switch statement is a box with a special terminal that you wire for the conditional, and then a pull down box at the top, that lets you enumerate and switch between all the different cases. You can wire just about any type into the conditional terminal. The simplest example would have a boolean input wire and only one case - true - ie an if statement. You have foreach loops which iterate through all the elements of an array you wire in, and while loops (technically a do-while) which is another box with an internal terminal for the conditional. And so on.

      One of the intersting things about this language is that because execution order is determined by data flow, not program text, it is inherently parallel. If you draw two loops on the same diagram, and one isn't dependent on the other for data, then they will operate concurrently.

      Okay enough explaining the interesting parts of the language, onto the thrashing. Do not believe what NI (the makers of LabView) tell you about increased productivity. It is true that you save some time due to the fact that this is a high level language, and comes with a nice set of libararies. However, this is offset by the fact that it takes so much longer to draw code then it does to type it. A picture may be worth a thousand words but an icon is worth exactly one. It only takes slighly to wire up a function, or draw a loop than it does to type it. But where the really killer comes in is you now have the added complexity of having to think about how to layout all these elements, and predict how much space you will need for them. If you predict wrong you will be constantly resizing boxes and rerouting wires. As you can imagine refactoring is a huge pain, so you better have a perfect design when you start, and we all know that we never have bugs in the design, right? And we never want to modify our program to do things in the

    18. Re:Visual design by The_K4 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually the IT guys did reformat the drive and put on a fresh image. I don't know what the problem is, I prefer 2K over XP because of these issues.

    19. Re:Visual design by GileadGreene · · Score: 3, Insightful
      If that involves drawing lots of highly detailed pictures within pictures at the "design" level, then fine, but it wouldn't make anything less complex or less bug-ridden.

      In fact, it's likely to just make things more confusing. There's a reason that mathematicians don't do geometric proofs so much anymore - symbolic manipulation is more clear, more general, and more compact. It's the same reason that hardware designers use things like VHDL now.

      Many people seem to think that a "graphical language" makes things easier for lay-people to understand. And that's true at the very highest levels of abstraction. But when you get down to the details a graphical language must have the same expressiveness as an equivalent symbolic language. That means that it will almost inevitably have the same level of complexity as the symbolic language, and be equally impenetrable to lay-people. One only has to look at the newest versions of UML to see this effect in action.

      Bottom line: graphics are great at a high level of abstraction, and as documentation to aid understanding of a symblic expression, but for implementing complex systems symbolic languages are much better.

    20. Re:Visual design by Trolling4Dollars · · Score: 5, Insightful

      First off... I'm a hardcore Linux guy. I only have one Windows box at home and that's because I have some professional hardware that doesn't yet have good support under Linux (Echo Layla audio interface. Yes there is an ALSA driver but I have yet to get it to work.). With that out of the way, I have to bring up a point that I've tried to make before. Windows has improved over time, and from my own experience with it both at work and at home I think they got a lot of things right. I've also noticed a lot of *nix-isms in it that have been hidden behind GUIs and friendly names. I won't get into that here though. My main point is this...

      Starting around the time of Windows NT4, Windows got reasonably stable by itself. Windows 2000 took it a good deal further and there was less wrong with the OS than ever before (excluding security issues). Windows XP and 2003 Server have certainly raised the bar quite a bit. So why do we get all these stories about the OS "crashing" all the time? I'll tell you why:

      1. Poorly written/Buggy application or server software (Office Suites, Web Servers, Mail Servers, etc...)
      2. Misconfigured application or server software
      3. Misconfigured OS settings by people who don't really know what they are doing despite their certs
      4. Underpowered hardware (overclocked CPUs or just plain slow/older machines, not enough RAM, etc..)
      5. Inappropriate hardware (Using a Gateway brand desktop PC as a Domain Controller) non-ECC RAM, etc..
      6. Malfunctioniing hardware (bad RAM, MB, CPU, cooling problems, etc...)

      In many instances, the people responsible for these machines either don't know HOW to fix the problem, or CAN'T (proprietary software) until their vendor puts out a fix. These people may not know how to figure out where the problems is. Is it hardware? Is it software? Where in the chain does it exists? If anything, most tech's troubleshooting skills are pretty poor. But the ever present pressures from clueless suits to "make it work!" lead to workarounds or... the ubiquitous scheduled nightly reboot. This is NOT the fault of the OS. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Windows is a reliable OS compared to other OSes. I'm saying it's more likely that the applications and services that people are running on their machines are more likely to be the cause of crashes or forcing the nightly reboot. Windows has plenty of issues at the server and the desktop that ARE Micro$oft's fault. But seriously people... put the blame where it belongs the other 50% of the time.

    21. Re:Visual design by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Your comment is well thought out and equally well stated. But your premise reguarding application software is faulty, an OS should NOT crash due to the applications running on top. If the application is at fault, stopping and re-starting the application should be all that is necessary, not rebooting the entire system.

    22. Re:Visual design by teval · · Score: 3, Insightful

      1. Poorly written/Buggy application or server software (Office Suites, Web Servers, Mail Servers, etc...)

      A faulty application should not bring down your OS. It is the OS' fault if it dies. Even if it's written badly.. or if it's misconfigured (2).

      Maybe #3 has some merit.. bad OS settings, but what settings can you set up in Windows that would crash it?

      4. Underpowered hardware (overclocked CPUs or just plain slow/older machines, not enough RAM, etc..)

      Even if it's slow, that isn't an excuse for it crashing.

      5. Inappropriate hardware (Using a Gateway brand desktop PC as a Domain Controller) non-ECC RAM, etc..

      The first example is ridiculous, it should not fail just because it's under too much stress.

      If my OS dies because of a program that I ran as a normal user or a MS driver I just installed (You'd be surprised.. or.. maybe you wouldn't be?) it's the OS's fault.

      Please let this be an end to the: "[Outlook/Apache/other server/other program/other game] locked my computer.. it's no Windows' fault" It is, nothing short of loading a junk driver that's malicious (and you do need admin for that I beleive) or.. an error in the OS should crash it ( barring hardware and with sane settings *read, sane, not optimum.. sane*)

      As a sidenote, I use Linux at home, I use Windows XP at school and I repair all sorts of Windows computers. The most damage I've ever seen software and hardware wise has been by techsupport people (A+, et al. certified support)

  2. Yeah, right by michaelwb · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is this kind of like in the 50s when some expert said that nuclear power was going to make electricity free?

    1. Re:Yeah, right by inertialmatrix · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hrmph..

      Screw the 1950's promise of free electricity. Where the hell is my dishwashing, breakfast making, stainless steel life sized Robot?!?!

      I want Robots!

    2. Re:Yeah, right by Dutchmaan · · Score: 3, Funny

      >

      It's hanging out with your happily house-chained June Cleaver 1950's wife in your fully mechanically automated home of the future!

    3. Re:Yeah, right by MacJedi · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually the Soviet Union did use nukes for mining and creating canals... Check out this link (scroll down to the bottom.)

      --
      2^5
    4. Re:Yeah, right by irokitt · · Score: 3, Funny

      Robots exist. They eat old people's medicine. If you are elderly perhaps you should consider insurance...

      (come on, anyone else here watch SNL in the day?)

      --
      If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions.
  3. Product costings from richest man in world? by quinkin · · Score: 4, Funny
    Somehow I don't think I will be taking Bill's word for it...

    Q.

    --
    Insert Signature Here
  4. Free by n9uxu8 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Heck...if I made Bill's salary, I'd already think of hardware as free. In any case, if I was running a company and had global influence, what better model could there be than to dictate that the hardware required to run my product should be (virtually) free, but that my product is too valuable to be expected to be given away. DAve

    1. Re:Free by jtwJGuevara · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This might be what he is getting at here. I'm still a youngster and didn't get into computing until the mid 90's, but from what I know the idea used to be the opposite - that software came free (little f) or at very little cost to benefit the very highly priced hardware components that were needed. Apparently Bill is going the reciprocal route and wants the hardware to come free or at a very inexpensive cost to support his high priced software. This would only make since in his vision since such a scenario would result in better bottom line numbers for Microsoft and the evil organization potentially has enough power over the long term to do such a thing.

    2. Re:Free by Golias · · Score: 4, Insightful
      The problem is, why would I put a $150 OS and $600 Office suite on my free computer, when Linux + Open Office would allow me a totally free system?

      $750 of Microsoft software for a $2500 computer didn't seem like all that much to most people back in the 1990s, but the times, they are a-changin'.

      --

      Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

    3. Re:Free by dasmegabyte · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Okay. Let's put aside the silly "Microsoft is Evil" stuff for a minute, and look at the industry in general has gone over the past 15 years.

      The price of the average "IBM" PC sold has dropped by roughly 400% since I first bought one in 1989. At the same time, processor speed on these average machines has increased by 50,000%. If this trend continues, and I see no reason for it not to, the average computer in 15 years will have a 10 THz processor and cost $125.

      Now, the while the cost of hardware continues to go down, the cost of software continues to go up. The number of people who are needed to build the massive applications to make use of 10 THz will be huge. Somebody's got to pay the damn programmers, right? So the price of software will continue to go up. Even if OSS succeeds and the operating system and incidental programs are free, the CUSTOM programs will be expensive.

      Therefore, it makes sense to give the hardware as an added bonus with the software. The same way you have cell phones given away with calling plans today. This isn't a Microsoft thing...this could easily be an IBM thing or an Adobe thing, etc.

      --
      Hey freaks: now you're ju
  5. Please Bill.. by grub · · Score: 5, Insightful


    Nice try, Bill.

    He's saying the tangible parts of the system (the hardware) will be virtually free while the freely duplicated software will not be. Fabrication plants cost millions, each chip has a real cost, each resistor has a real cost. Software, once written, can be copied countless times..

    You'd think Bill had a vested interest in all this..

    --
    Trolling is a art,
    1. Re:Please Bill.. by Alomex · · Score: 4, Insightful


      Yet, hardware has gone down in price from where it was in the mid 80's while software has gone up.

    2. Re:Please Bill.. by ForestGrump · · Score: 4, Funny

      So what Billy boy is saying is that the price of his software will be so high, that hardware will appear to be free. Damn you DRM....

      -Grump

      --
      Is it true that more people vote for the winner of American Idol, than vote for the president? -Ali G.
    3. Re:Please Bill.. by RoLi · · Score: 3, Interesting
      He's saying the tangible parts of the system (the hardware) will be virtually free while the freely duplicated software will not be. Fabrication plants cost millions, each chip has a real cost, each resistor has a real cost. Software, once written, can be copied countless times..

      Yeah, I also thought this.

      But before the Linux-era, Billy was actually correct: At DOS-times, computers cost about 5000$, while DOS itself was less than 100$ (full version) IIRC. Today computers typically cost less than 1000$ but Windows XP (full version, crippled) costs 200$ or (full version, uncrippled) 300$.

      On Windows-servers the ratio of the total system price which is going to Microsoft is even higher.

      Also, Microsoft is doing much more against piracy these days (WPA, BSA-audits, etc.) than 20 years ago, which de-facto translates into yet another price increase.

      Even though Bill Gates seems to have the delusion that this can go on like nothing happened, he is wrong: On servers, Microsoft already feels the heat from Linux and the desktop domination already shows some cracks.

    4. Re:Please Bill.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The problem every ignorant OSS-ONLY kid and zealot tends to forget, Software Has A Design Cost.

      Yes, once it is developed, it can be copied 'freely', in quotes because I do not want to put out the same connotation as others may want to read into this.

      To get to that point, you have thousands of manhours put into the development. After you get to that point, thousand more manhours are put into maintaining it. Where does the money come from? Are we just going to change our motos to Off The People For The People and put up our hammers and sickles? I *LOVE* OSS and I contribute to several projects (as well as having convinced my employeer to OSS some stuff in the past of which I maintained until it got to be more of a job than what I was being paid for -- and not interesting enough to do outside of work).

      Too many people have this complete all or nothing hippy commie perspective on OSS. They think love and hugs will get everything done. It might in the future. It might after a revolution where Haliburton doesn't control the free world. It might when there is free healthcare and folks aren't living under the bridge down the street from me and the mentally ill are not turned out on their own simply because they are not a threat to others.

      Software has a cost. Do what you can to promote free software and free speech and your damn group hugs, but realize some of us need to eat as well.

      Posted anonymously as a test to see if anyone is paying attention or if this will just be rated a troll as /.'rs are like to do.

    5. Re:Please Bill.. by Ubergrendle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hardware is measurable in a physical sense. So many transitors per mm, how many units a factory can produce in 'n' period of time, benchmarks against some algorithms...

      But for software, it is much more difficult to measure improvement in a quantitative sense. It can be done, but not easily if the vendor wants to muddy the waters. I believe feature creep & bloat in Windows is to prevent direct comparisons with previous iterations of the product.

      Although hardware costs have come down, its the result of competition in the free market, easily understood and measured as a physical good. Microsoft OS? They've become more expensive, with less value add in each iteration.

      --
      John Maynard Keynes: "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?"
    6. Re:Please Bill.. by molarmass192 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      At DOS-times, computers cost about 5000$

      ... and that was in 1985 dollars! If you adjust that for inflation and that's close to $8600 in today's dollars.

      --

      Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws-Plato
    7. Re:Please Bill.. by Armchair+Dissident · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Software Has A Design Cost

      So does hardware. And it has a higher replication cost.

      Each piece of hardware has to be designed. The processor, the motherboard, the RAM, the networking cards, the graphics cards, the hard drive controllers - the hard drives. All these things have a high research and development cost as well as a high replication cost.

      Software just has a high design cost. I write proprietary software, and I expect to get paid for it. But that doesn't suddenly mean that the hardware I write the software on doesn't have a design cost, or doesn't have a high replication cost.

      Hell, my value to my employer - and therefore my contribution to the cost of their software - is an entirely arbitrary value set by current labour rates. The cost of pressing a microprocessor onto silicon, however, is dictated by the labour cost of the design teams + the cost of the silicon + the cost of the plant etc. etc.

      Or are you contending that hardware designers are somehow worth less than software designers?

      --

      The ways of gods are mysteriously indistinguishable from chance.
  6. Already now ? by S3D · · Score: 4, Funny

    I have suspicion that some of the Microsoft software not written but visually designed already now. Considering its quality.

  7. Hrmmmm.... by BWJones · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Dell (and other box manufacturers) cannot be happy about such a statement. After all, their entire business model is dependent upon making a profit assembling wrappers for different flavors of Windows. So, even though they tried with Linux to diversify somewhat and protect themselves some time ago (only to be spanked back by Microsoft), their fortunes are irrevocably tied to the success (or failure) of Microsoft.

    I suppose that this could be construed as the ultimate embrace and extend (then smother) approach though, right? Get a huge number of companies to support your position and build your company and then overnight, take all of their business revenues over in one way or another.

    As for Gates predilection for predictions..... I would like to see fewer grandiose predictions (although speech recognition and tablets and visual programming are decidedly not grandiose and are in fact products shipping and under development by a number of companies) and more fundamental focus on making Microsoft products suck less.

    --
    Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
    1. Re:Hrmmmm.... by gkuz · · Score: 4, Informative
      At current list prices, the software is already more expensive than the hardware in the server space. Microsoft Windows 2003 Enterprise Server lists for $4k with 25 Client Access Licenses (CALs). Each additional 20 CALS costs $799. So an approximately 100-user server will run you over $7k (at list) for MS software licensing. Dell or HP will sell you quite a nice server for less than $7k.

      Spare me the obligatory replies about how much cheaper you can do all this with white-box hardware and Linux -- I'm not talking about that, I'm trying to add context to BillG's pronunciamento.

  8. Microsoft leading the way by neoform · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Of course, microsoft isn't in the hardware market, so they can say whatever they want.

    --
    MABASPLOOM!
  9. Security Still Top Priority? by de_boer_man · · Score: 5, Funny

    Hmmm... This sounds vaguely familiar:

    "Remember, quality is our top priority."

    --
    .sig wanted. Inquire within.
  10. Re:All this on 640K? by slipgun · · Score: 5, Funny

    How much stock can you put in his predictions?

    About 640,000 shares - should be a big enough investment for anyone!

    --
    SpamNet - a spam blocker that really works
  11. Software will never be easy by CharAznable · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Even if software development becomes putting lego blocks together, it's not going to make specifying algorithms, keeping track of data structures and debugging any easier.
    Billy should know better.

    --
    The perfect sig is a lot like silence, only louder
  12. Enough by n9uxu8 · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Many of the holy grails of computing that have been worked on over the last 30 years will be solved within this 10-year period, with speech being in every device and having a device that's like a tablet that you just carry around,"

    For the last time, Bill...I still don't want a tablet pc!!!!!

    Dave

    1. Re:Enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'll have your tablet then. I love it.

      [vikings]
      tab tab tab tab,
      tab tab tab tab
      tablet pc! tablet pc!

  13. Ah, visual design in VB by dupper · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Where your Pong program runs through 14 levels of OLE and runs at 3 FPS.

  14. I can imagine how by Sumocide · · Score: 5, Insightful
    With the help of Trusted Computing/Palladium. Like portable phones today, which may have a SIM lock and can only be used with a certain provider.

    You'll get free TCPA enabled hardware but it'll only let you run software by a certain company, software you'll have to pay for.

  15. Yeah, yeah, yeah... by superdan2k · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And Bill Gates frequently talks out of his ass. I seem to recall that the Web wasn't important (and then we got IE a year later), that MS Bob was going to make computers usable by everyone, and that no one would need more than 640K of RAM.

    --
    blog |
    1. Re:Yeah, yeah, yeah... by nomadic · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yeah, if he's so smart, why isn't he rich?

  16. Visually designed... by Black+Parrot · · Score: 5, Funny


    > He further predicts -- ugh! -- that software will not be written but visually designed.

    "Let's start with a blue background that fills the whole screen..."

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  17. Of course by Wizard+of+OS · · Score: 5, Funny

    Of course, if you'r stock is worth a few billion dollars, the cost of hardware is 'almost free' :)

    --

    --
    If code was hard to write, it should be hard to read
  18. Mr 640k and unimportant internet by willtsmith · · Score: 5, Insightful


    Wow another great prediction from the anti-psychic Bill Gates.

    Sorry Bill, but software is far more replicable than hardware. It's the SOFTWARE that is becoming more free as we go along.

    As far as visual goes, I don't think that's correct. He's envisioning a workflow type application for controlling logic. Diagramming most code is far more difficult then simply writing it. 4GL is a pipe dream.

    I DO believe that future programmers will be more like carpenters. High levels of modularity will make custom software construction as practical as cutting and nailing/gluing/screwing together the components down at Home Depot. Programs that ARE sold will be far more extensible (plugin enabled) with managed code.

    The future of software is changing. As usual, Gates doesn't have a clue. He was right about ONE thing 30 years ago. He swindled the owners of Q-DOS and IBM. He's been riding that ever since.

    --
    -------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
    1. Re:Mr 640k and unimportant internet by shadowbearer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      and just like carpenters, there will be programmers who can put those modules together correctly and programmers who can't. Anyone who's ever fixed the mess made by clueless DIYer (as opposed to a clueful one) knows this.

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
  19. Gillete model, Consoles, Printers etc... by gilesjuk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just like Gillette virtually give away their shaving handles and printers cost next to nothing they're going towards making PCs like games consoles.

    What is worrying is you can only succeed if you make you product unable to be used for anything else. So for games consoles you have to make it near impossible for anyone else to be able to write software (especially free software) for the device. For printers you need to make sure that nobody else can supply ink.

    There's no such thing as a free lunch, you pay one way or another. If the hardware is next to free then the software will be subsidising it. The problem is for this to work for Microsoft they need a PC platform that can't run Linux, so I can see that their inroads into the BIOS, DRM etc... (see XBox for the beginnings of an implementation) are quite worrying.

    Of course there will never be a situation where there won't be an x86 platform that can't run Linux, it is too popular in Japan, India and China.

  20. Free hardware. Riiiiiiiiiight. by phillymjs · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And what onerous restrictions will I have to agree to to receive and use said free hardware?

    How many laws will be purchased be the large companies so Cuecat-esque hardware EULAs will actually have teeth and be enforceable?

    ~Philly

  21. Puhleeeez...... by El+Cubano · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Hardware costs will fall sharply within a decade to the point where widespread computing with speech and handwriting won't be limited by expensive technology, Microsoft Corp. (NasdaqNM:MSFT - news) Chairman Bill Gates (news - web sites) said on Monday.

    This looks like a quote from 10 years ago talking about today. In '93, an "entry level" PC cost upwards of $2000. Today, an entry level machine that is far more capable costs only 10% of that. Not to mention that the $200 price tag represents a now miniscule fraction of most people's income.

    I would say that hardware is already "free" when compared to software. This is becuase you can buy a $200 machine (real tangible manufacturing cost per unit) and put a $200 copy of Windows (with no real production cost) on it. I am sure that the hardware prices can go lower, but hardware is already a commodity. Software has yet to become a true commodity.

  22. been there, didn't do that by JetScootr · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Several years ago (more than I care to admit), where I work, the mainframe manufacturer offered free hardware if we would continue to pay the software licenses. Free hardware meant an entirely new mainframe, ten years younger than what we already were running on.
    Now we're running on Unix, and saving money. Bill's just blowing smoke, telling us his dreams.

    --
    Pavlov wouldn't be so famous if he'd used a can opener instead of a bell.
  23. Re:I hope not by Eagle5596 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is why you need to study computer science, rather than "programming". Programming is a skill that can be useful, but is, by its very nature, transient. Remember, at one point in time, auto mechanics were considered a very skilled white collar position.

    Computer Science on the other hand, is a mathematical discipline which involves working out how to do things better, faster, and with less energy. It's about algorithm design, and ways in which to make a computer most efficiently process mathematical representations. It'll be useful far beyond the use of general "coding".

    Coding itself is becoming more and more prevalent. I have many friends who aren't even scientists who know how to code, and were even required to for their humanities classes (from English, to History, to Foreign Language). This is a good thing, IMHO. Coding is a great general purpose skill.

    Don't devote your life to the practice of programming, devote it to understanding why certain things work better, and how to further refine our techniques of computation. Work on understanding the hardwaresoftware interface, and you open up all kinds of new fields, from embedded engineering, to robotics.

    Take the hint from the majority of good Universities who teach computer science, where you are simply expected to pick up a language in your spare time, because that aspect is secondary to the theory, and the easier of the two.

  24. Re:Another Quote by e6003 · · Score: 5, Informative

    To be fair, it seems the (in)famous Gates 640K quote is an urban legend.

  25. Visual designing is a reality now! by javatips · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm working on my second project using the MDA (Model Driven Architecture) approach. With MDA, we are able to generate most, if not all, of the infrastructure code. The only thing that developers need to do is writing business code.

    Designer will create the proper UML diagram to represent the structure and some dynamic aspect of the application in a platform independent model. Then we apply some code generation templates to generate the code for a targetted architecture.

    If we go a little further with the code generation, we could actually implements most of the business logic structure based on sequence diagrams.

    For the front end, while it would be hard to generated a really nice interface, we can generated what need to by put in a screen. Then it's a matter of applying a CSS or using a visual editor to reposition the component in the screen.

    I can see that in 10 years, most of the business code will be written that way... Note that one of the premisse of this happening is that proper analysis and design must be done. For that we must change the mindset of a lot of people.

    As for people fearing for their current developer status... These people will have to grow up and start doing real developement instead of using the use the force approach. And for really good developers/architect, there will always be a need for someone to define an architecture and create/maintain the templates required to translate the visual design into real code. And there will also be a need for good developer to write code to implements the complex algorithms required by some applications.

    Anyway, writting most business related code is boring and repetitive, so why not generate it!

  26. Nostradamus 2.0 by silverbax · · Score: 5, Funny

    Step 1: Predict everything that can possibly happen. Nothing is too wild. Some examples:

    * In the future, every home will have a robot that carries a machine gun.
    * Cars will not only drive themselves, they'll demand equal rights.
    * Computers will be made only of light and sound.
    * Computers will learn to upgrade theselves - not because of initial programming, but as a survival mechanism to prevent obsoletion.
    * IT outsourcing will be controlled in some sectors by organized crime and gangs. This will start in Las Vegas and move outward.
    * Email will be beamed directly into your brain. You will be able to type an answer in your head.

    Step 2: Wait for at least one prediction to come true ( even slightly true ) and be declared a prophet.

    1. Re:Nostradamus 2.0 by ideonode · · Score: 4, Funny

      Shouldn't that be:

      Step 3: Prophet!

  27. Too Cheap To Meter by handy_vandal · · Score: 4, Informative

    Is this kind of like in the 50s when some expert said that nuclear power was going to make electricity free?

    Not "free": the exact phrase, from Lewis Strauss, chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission, was:

    "Our children will enjoy in their homes electrical energy too cheap to meter."

    ... which turned out to be overly optimistic.

    -kgj

    --
    -kgj
  28. Visual programming - snort! by Jerf · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Visual programming is one of the canonical examples of "Gee, I have no clue how it works but wouldn't it be really cool if...". Nobody has a clue how to do significant programming in it; it's never even had a decent prototype, let alone any reason to think it will work in general.

    Sure, there are isolated instances of it being useful, mostly in drawing flow diagrams for signal processing, but that's far from the general case.

    Other then that, though, it's been a miserable failure. Software doesn't look like anything in real life, and real life metaphors are effectively useless for manipulating it. Every tried to use a multi-level UML diagram, where each box contains boxes that contain boxes? That's what visual programming looks like. A confusing, ultra-hyper-dimensional object, where every detail is critical (even the ones you can't see), where to understand a system requires hundreds of little abstract entities on the screen.

    Software has more "moving parts", by factors of magnitude, then any other human endeavor; the largest software projects dwarf the complexity (in part count) of even the Space Shuttle. (We get away with it because we use effectively 100% reliable parts, whereas the Space Shuttle does not, the problems that causes and the solutions they require mean the Space Shuttle is still IMHO a superior engineering work to an office suite. Nevertheless, don't make the mistake of underestimating the complexity of software; even the smallest program can dwarf a small car in complexity.)

    With a clearer understanding of what is being asked for, it is easy to see that visual programming has been a disaster for fundamental reasons, not ones that can be abstracted away. Imagine the Mozilla source code. It contains megabytes upon megabytes of code. Each and every line must be represented to understand the whole correctly (although no one person may need to understand the whole.) One way or another each line must be represented on the screen; if you're trying to do it "visually", then you're hosed. You can't abstract "(cutcrn*)DO_LOAD((void *)nm_mungl, andlefle->getLumpiness(MAX_LOAD_LUMP_COUNT, (int)uniQuad), USER_MACROS(LOAD));" visually, because you'll either lose critical information, or have an unusably cluttered screen.

    There's just no way around it.

    "But what if I design special modules that can be hooked together cleanly?" Then you'll have special modules that can be hooked together cleanly, as long as they do exactly what you need, which they won't. We also have tons of experience with such special modules, and they never work completely in general. You can build a DSP out of such things and that's about it... and even then, that's just compositing the existing DSPs together, I wouldn't want to build the insides in a visual language in the general case. (You could get some milage out of it, but you'd still be shelling out to text code.)

    You think I'm wrong, you think you have some clever way to reduce the amount of necessary information on the screen without throwing away something the user needs, show me the code. To date, nobody else has managed that, despite a lot of trying by smart and dedicated people, and given that we clearly don't need faster computers to do "visual programming", I think you ought to consider that a damned big clue before you consider punching the "Reply" button and making vague, hand-wavy gestures to the effect that I'm wrong.

    Consider the source: I think there's a reason you're hearing this from Bill Gates, who probably hasn't coded significantly in decades, and not the .Net team, who probably are also cringing and shaking their heads privately as well.

  29. Re:Yeah, right (not with bloatware) by G4from128k · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Hardware will never be free as long as software continues to bloat with an ever-expanding list of core features and peopel continue to believe the MHz myth.

    At one level, hardware can already be free. I saw a small PDA with about the same specs as the original Palm Pilot selling for $19.95. Yet such devices are NOT popular because everyone wants the latest wiz-bang features on their PDA.

    Its the same reason why laptops get such aweful battery life. I'm sure that someone could create a very functional laptop with a 50 MHz processor that does a competent job running a basic office suite and have superb battery life. As a real-life example, my Psion 5Mx gets 30 hours on 2 AAs and does a great job of basic office work on a 37 MHz ARM processor. You don't need battery-sucking GHz to do the job.

    Yet nobody wants to buy "under-powered" devices because they have been trained for 2 decades by Wintel that they must have the fastest machine to get decent performance.

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
  30. Gillette model? by Creepy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Although he claims it will be falling prices, somehow I see the Gillette model creeping in (give away the razor, sell the blades at a premium) - mainly because the hardware will never be "free," as there is always manufacturing cost involved.

    Basically, what he's saying is that hardware prices will drop to the point where they can charge for software and give the hardware away for free. I find this quite ironic because it used to be the other way around - sell the hardware at a premium and toss the software in for free.

    If I had my way, hardware prices would drop to nothing as Bill proposed, and I'd create free software for it, making it a free-for-all... nah, it'll never happen, but wishful thinking :)

  31. Where is all the communists rhetoric now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Oddly, when people trumpet free software, yellow journalism comments like communist, anti-American, end-of-capitalism-as-we-know-it start coming from everyone.

    But when Bill Gates suggests that hardware should be free, why, this is a good thing!

    Hardware fabrication has a real multiplier effect in the economy: IC fabrication plants cost millions and provide work to the poeple who build them, run them, maintain them, etc; resistors, capacitors, connectors and PCBs all have entire industries associated with them that provide income for millions of people.

    Software, on the other hand, promotes no such multiplier. Once written, it can be copied countless times with very little supporting industry. It provides work to only a small group of programmers and one company, without the multipliers mentioned above for hardware.

    Why should software be prized so highly in our economy and hardware denigrated economically? Because Bill Gates says so?

  32. Why hardware won't become free, or even close by johnlcallaway · · Score: 4, Interesting
    • Chip makers will contine to create advancements and will want their R&D dollars back, just like Mr. Gates. This is why software is expensive; it is cheap to to burn a CD but time consuming to develop.
    • Two words .. advertising costs.
    • Chip makers delay the release of new chip sets if they have significant inventory of other models. This keeps the prices of current chips artifically high until the manufacturers feel they can't milk any more out of consumers. Chip makers will be sure to not release new products until demand is there and they recover R&D costs for older chips.
    • CPU and memory chips account for less than half the cost of a PC; disk drives, monitors, DVD/CD drives, cases and motherboards make up the rest. These items have too many mechanical/structural parts to realize significant savings from improved chip manufacturing techniques. Even if the memory and CPU were free, systems will still cost a few hundred dollars.
    • Some people will always want/need advanced features, and computer systems and chip makers will always charge a premium for those items.
    • Chips contain software (on-board video, BIOS,etc.). I doubt if the makers of those software components will start giving it away. But, if open-source alternatives became available, those items would realize additional savings. I would not be surprised if more software wound it's way into hardware as the cost of updating firmware becomes cheaper. Hardware video drives can be a lot more effective than OS video drivers.
    Until chip manufacturers stop releasing new products every few months (reduces R&D), stop advertising, and create an entire system on a chip, including structerual components, external interfaces (wireless??), storage, and displays, computer systems will never be 'almost free'.
    --
    I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
  33. Precisely - we can't even get WYSIWYG HTML right.. by janbjurstrom · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Precisely. And, for example: given how long friggin HTML has been around - plus the simplicity of that markup "language" - and we still don't have perfect (or even good) WYSIWYG editors for it.

    How likely is it we'll get "visual editors" for complex systems (C/C++/et al., in combination with various other languages, frameworks, data formats/databases, etc)?

    --
    668.5
  34. Re:I hope not by AntonyBartlett · · Score: 3, Informative
    Take the hint from the majority of good Universities who teach computer science, where you are simply expected to pick up a language in your spare time, because that aspect is secondary to the theory, and the easier of the two.

    The difference between theory and practice is very small in theory, but rather large in practice.

  35. Re:Yeah, right (not with bloatware) by Srin+Tuar · · Score: 4, Insightful


    If everyone was willing to settle for older or slower hardware, demand for it, and thus prices, would be higher. Did you ever stop to wonder why older or lower-end stuff is so cheap? The people buying the new stuff at much higher prices are essentially subsidizing it.

  36. Where laptop power goes ... by willtsmith · · Score: 3, Informative


    Right now, the display is the big power consumer in portable devices. The processors have been tuned to use minimal power.

    The Scion 5Mx has a B/W LCD screen. How long do the batteries last when the backlight is on????

    When OLED comes to laptops, that will significantly increase battery time.

    --
    -------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
  37. Re:I hope not by groomed · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Remember, at one point in time, auto mechanics were considered a very skilled white collar position.

    I don't think this was ever true.

    Computer Science on the other hand, is a mathematical discipline which involves working out how to do things better, faster, and with less energy. It's about algorithm design, and ways in which to make a computer most efficiently process mathematical representations.

    Certainly, certainly, but how is this different from programming? Programmers work out how to do things better, faster, and with less energy. Programmers design algorithms. Programmers design ways to make a computer most efficiently process mathematical representations. And not just mathematical representations, either. All kinds of representations, in fact.

    I won't dispute your central point. I think it's vital to make a distinction between hard programming and soft programming. But the gap between the theory and practice just isn't as clear cut with computer science as with other disciplines. There is a big difference between designing an engine and building one. The difference is much less pronounced in software, because at some point the design or description becomes a program in its own right.

  38. Why visual design will help, but is no panacea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Depends on how it is done. There are some well designed visual modeling & simulation development tools for electronics (Simulink, PSpice, etc.) and mechanical systems (finite element, etc.) These do a relatively good job of simulating "systems". Software processes are not that different from physical processes in electronics and mechanical system. Software rules (e.g., syntax) are analagous to physical laws.


    There are some caveats on this statement however. First, software systems have discrete, digital states rather than analog behavior. That makes them quite succeptible to error behavior in boundary cases. And the state space for software is extremely large. Universal use of components developed in either an object-oriented or functional way could divide this state space up into manageable components. But one issue that is often overlooked by methodology enthusiasts is that this only increases the size of the building blocks and decreases the number of blocks used for a particular size of project. It does not eliminiate the problem that bigger programs are made from a larger number of component parts. The complexity of a program grows as a function of the complexity of the underlying problem. You can change the function with different tools, but the relationship will still exist.
    1. Re:Why visual design will help, but is no panacea by anomalous+cohort · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There are already some visual programming IDE's that are supposed to work at this gross chunked (fit them together like pipes) component level. I've noticed that they cluster around the B2B integration tool space.

      Here are some examples. M$FT uses their acquired Visio engine in their biztalk server to model dataflow. BEA Systems does something very similar in their Weblogic Workshop IDE. Go to page 8 in this white paper of theirs.

      Is this true programming? IMHO, its as much programming as writing a shell script.

  39. Re:Precisely - we can't even get WYSIWYG HTML righ by The+Desert+Palooka · · Score: 5, Interesting

    But the visual aspects of pure "compatible" HTML (as in not CSS and Divs, which many design shops still stay away from) are hacks. So you have these editors trying to visually do something that HTML was never intended to do. Dreamweaver, the best of these editors, was oft called "the moody woman" at one shop I worked at, as you had to know just how to coddle it it wouldn't do what you wanted, or even what it was supposed to. Handwriting the code was still superior for these hacks...

    Then CSS/Layers became totally (mostly) supported. Now WYSIWYG editors work QUITE well... (Even some non editors generate perfect code. Photoshop's image ready generates some very nice code)

    Anyway, point being, when something is designed to be designed visually it can be visually designed much easier. *grin*

  40. Visual Programming != GUI by castlec · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As we get to places were components are used and reused, we can represent these components as images which interact through certain connectors. Think programming in UML with predesigned components. Obviously there will always be pieces that must be hand coded, just open the box and insert code.

    --
    When I tell an object to delete this, am I killing it or telling it to kill me?
  41. almost free hardware makes sense by Junks+Jerzey · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Look at it this way: the 48K Apple II was introduced in the US at $1795. Now, a typical bottom-end cell phone has much more computing power. You could put the entire Apple II on a $20 FPGA, or make it an ASIC and the price would be $1 or less in quantity.

    I bought a 333MHZ Pentium II based PC in 1998. For software development and everything else I did, it was fine for the following five years. I finally upgraded to a 3GHz P4, just because it was cheaper than upgrading the OS and various parts individually. In my timings, this PC is roughly 15x faster than the old one, plus the video card is at least 10x faster than the one I bought in 2000. This is a lot of power, and it's the least I've ever spent on a PC.

    Or consider game consoles. A $150 game system is more powerful, in all ways except memory, than a computer from 5-6 years ago. Video-wise, they're much more powerful. Next generation consoles are going to outrun current desktops...for $200.

    The short version is that computers get more powerful, then they get cheap. At some point power ceases to matter, especially if you have a GPU or video compression chip to offload lots of work to. Imagine if a 2 or 3GHz chip could be made to run at 10 watts of power and cost $5. For a 65nm PowerPC, this is reasonable. What's needed is economy of scale. An alternate approach is that "low end" processors in cell phones and digital cameras get to where they're fast enough to usurp a desktop. Then put a video compression chip in there, or other custom hardware to the bulk of the work. At $20 for a complete system, that's a big deal.

    Or even consider alternate, custom CPUs. An x86 desktop CPU is expensive because it includes all sorts of junk, like MMX support and 16-bit mode and legacy instructions and SSE2 and all this other marginalized stuff. And still they're too general purpose. C++ doesn't matter any more. Well, it matters because it's "fast," but not because people really like it. C++ doesn't make you happy the way Haskell or Python or Smalltalk do. Take a minimal instruction set designed to support one of those languages, then implement a simulator for it, then an FPGA, then an ASIC. Keep it simple, keep it fast. You could easily have a 20MHz part pacing high-end desktop processors for most tasks. Again, combine this with an ASIC for doing heavy lifting like graphics and compression.

  42. I don't think so by hak1du · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Gates is wrong. Hardware prices don't depend as much on technology but on what people are willing to pay. A PC costs $1000 because that's what people are willing to pay for it, and they happen to get as much hardware and software for that as they can.

    I'm sure Gates would like the entire $1000 to go to Microsoft, but that's not going to happen. It's not going to happen because Microsoft isn't going to produce $900 worth of software that is capable of running on whatever $100 buys you in hardware. That's not a problem with hardware design, it's a problem with the kind of software that Microsoft develops: big and resource intensive.

    On the other hand, you will probably be able to get a really cheap computer that runs Linux and runs it well. We are already beginning to see this with Mini-ITX and Nano-ITX systems: they run Linux so much better than Windows. For $200, you get a full desktop system capable of pretty much everything that a home user needs.

    What really helps Linux is that it doesn't have to push an agenda or "innovate" constantly. If a 1995 word processor written in C runs fine on $1000 1995 hardware, it will run really well on a $100 2005 Mini-ITX system, with a few `bug fixes and feature enhancements. Microsoft's new .NET-based office suite using COM, DCOM, SOAP, DHTML, and whatnot, on the other hand, won't. But Microsoft has to keep changing things in order to get people to buy and pay them more money.

  43. Re:Precisely - we can't even get WYSIWYG HTML righ by zapp · · Score: 3, Insightful

    HTML is hard to make a visual designer for because it's so non standardized, and very very sloppy.

    Ever build an SQL query with Access? Pretty simple if you ask me. How about an excel spreadsheet formula?

    Ever use a tool like Together, Rational Rose, etc to build a UML class diagram and have it generate the skeletal source code (class definitions, method names, variable declarations, etc)

    Look up Jackson Structured Programming (JSP), it's not popular here in the US, but it's a way to visually design the flow of a method and have your editor spit out code in any one of many languages.

    Also, expecting to get such an editor for C/C++ is silly. Not only will the tools evolve, but also the languages.

    And on general principle, the doubters usually turn out to be wrong. We made it to the moon, we have a computer in every house, etc.

    --
    no comment
  44. Chairs want to be expensive by dave_mcmillen · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm in the computer chair business, and I predict that computer hardware and software will *both* be free, and the only charge will be for the chairs.

  45. of course by Archalien · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Of course, he's right.

    Hardware will have to be free to justify the fact that the DRM running the hardware will make sure you won't be free to use the machine how you want to use it.

    He's basically just outlining a new marketing plan to get the masses to stomach Trusted Computing.

  46. That's odd - visual design of software by ch-chuck · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In hardware design, the trend in the past 20 years has been just the opposite, going from large blueprints of gate and circuits, to a Hardware Description Language (HDL, like Verilog or VHLD) which is very similar to a programming language like C or Pascal!

    Methinks the emperor has simply announced he wants a change of fashion, and all the trendy loyal subjects in the kingdom have to change their style to fit in.

    --
    try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
  47. Re:Precisely - we can't even get WYSIWYG HTML righ by micromoog · · Score: 4, Insightful
    And on general principle, the doubters usually turn out to be wrong. We made it to the moon, we have a computer in every house, etc.

    Oh, and the marketeers tend to be right? Sorry, but Bill Gates is not known for being a technology visionary.

  48. Re:Another Quote by mbourgon · · Score: 3, Informative

    Bull. Apple conference in 1981. I love how it's been debunked by Bill saying he didn't know. Kinda like how Bob Eubanks claimed for years the "in the butt" urban legend was false... until they found a video of it happening.

    --
    "Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
  49. he means Xbox will be free... by mojoNYC · · Score: 3, Funny
    and Word will still cost $300...


    they will be giving away the hardware, in order to keep people using their products;>


    Bill Gate$ is seriously overrated as a futurist (remember 'The Road Ahead?')--every year, he's got the same message, but with a different twist--suuuuure, they're spending 6.8B or whatever on research (how much did Bob cost?)--unfortunately, it's being spent on their new 'PRbot' which will be the next generation of AI, and will take FUD and PRspew to new heights (or depths)...


    finally, no one's talking about his voice recognition prognostications...what's the Blue Screen of Death going to sound like?

    //rant mode off here

  50. There are plenty of valid uses for a tablet PC by blorg · · Score: 3, Informative

    If you need to use a computer while standing up and walking around for example - I can completely understand why your building inspectors would want one. It's also a lot easier (read more respectful and less distracting to everyone) to use a flat computer in a meeting. It's better for reading the Web while sitting on a sofa. You don't want one to code on however, (in tablet mode at least) or use it for writing a novel. That doesn't mean that they aren't very useful for certain tasks.

  51. I Hate The Bastard But He's Right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Gates is right. Programming in the future will be visual. When he says this, though, he's just mimicing others, including myself, who have been maintaining this for, well, more than 20 years.

    I once engaged Michael Tiemann, CTO of Red Hat and doer of many of GNU things, on the subject of visual programming and he refused to even concede that it is possible.

    Well, to Michael and all of you who scoff, I say first: "You will not be among those who make it possible or who will benefit from it"

    We have begun to create, to learn to manipulate and to use as building blocks of new formal symbolic systems (languages), the graphic equivalents of phonemes and morphemes, words, syntax and grammar. If we can build civilizations on sounds, then we can build extensions to civilizations and things as yet undreamed with graphic symbols.

    You all can scoff, laugh, snort milk out your nose and, like Tiemann, bury your vision in the deserved pride in your own accomplishments, but that won't stop the development of new languages based upon graphics. And I don't mean just new programming languages. I mean languages.

    This will be done by children who will be unaware of your own self-imposed mental handicaps and defeatest attitudes, children who scoff at your scoffing, who have disdain for your disdain. Your world of text programming languages is passing, and will one day be a mere footnote.

    It doesn't matter if you understand this or not, if you like it or not, if you do it or not.

    1. Re:I Hate The Bastard But He's Right. by kvigor · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Your world of text programming languages is passing, and will one day be a mere footnote.


      Yes! Death to text! If you need proof that communication can be more efficiently done in a visual medium, you need look no further than this very web site where we converse exclusively using...

      Oh. Never mind. Move along, nothing to see here.
  52. Gates Says Nothing - As Usual! by pandrijeczko · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I think Bill needs to go take a look around him a little, especially on eBay, where hardware costs "next to nothing" now!

    You can pick up a Pentium II PC for a few dollars/pounds/euros. Put in 256MB of memory and it'll run Windows 9x or 2000 with an office package perfectly happily... I've got several friends and relatives who have benefitted from a lot of my old hardware, have PCs now with 300-500 Mhz CPUs that they're perfectly happy with and I've done my bit for the environment also by recycling old hardware.

    I believe Mr Gates is under the illusion that because he locks his user base into his software now, that in 10 years time people will still be willing to part with hard earned cash for software which, let's face it, is hardly innovative anymore because all of the features anyone can think of implementing have just about been implemented.

    If anything software innovation is becoming stale (though who cares because "if it ain't broke, don't fix it") and it's in the realms of hardware, particularly miniaturisation that the innovation is taking place currently.

    I hate to dampen Bill Gates' fireworks but if Linux makes as much an advance over the next 10 years as it has done over the last 10 years, then I think he'll have a few other things on his mind in a decade than just pondering the price of hardware...

    --
    Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
  53. BS. real speech recognition is far away by davids-world.com · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Gates is talking the same kind of BS that we've been hearing from 'visionary' "scientists" for around three decades now, and exactly what makes life hard for me and colleagues that try to get computers to do something useful (or fun) with natural language.

    Gates and other marketing experts are managing expectations in the wrong direction. They promise something that they cannot realize. What common people understand when Gates talks about "real speech recognition" is a computer that will analyze your input in a noisy environment (where it matters most: out on the street!), contextualize it with what you've said before and with what's on the screen and with all the things that we call 'common sense', and then react accordingly.

    A lot of these things are possible in very limited, well-modelled domains. But not in applications for 'real users' that deal with a variety of information. And it won't be there in ten years. There are many hard problems to solve, both in defining what is actually linguistically the case or how to learn it from a corpus, and how to implement processes that happen in parallel in our brains on sequential machines.

    It doesn't help if Gates and co promise the world and hope that their scientists will deliver.

  54. LabVIEW by ojQj · · Score: 3, Informative
    I would add National Instrument's LabVIEW to your list of visual languages.

    If you are trying to do detailed logic rather than just bring already written libraries together, a visual language may not be worse than something like Java. It may also not be better. I do think it makes a nice programming model for bringing together existing modules of code though. (as in LabVIEW Express)

    Of course, as in any other kind of choice between programming languages, it all depends on the specific problem domain.

  55. Re:Cost of hardware =0? by ctid · · Score: 4, Interesting
    This is an insane assumption... and you would think that a billionaire would have a better grasp on basic economics.

    It's not that insane, and remember that Gates is a billionaire in part because his company has been abusing its monopoly. To an extent, if he wants something to happen, he can make it happen. What he means by "free" is that users will "subscribe to" software and in doing so, receive a machine on which to run that software, effectively for nothing. This is what Microsoft wanted to accomplish by bullying retailers not to bundle other operating systems. My guess is that they will attempt to use "Trusted Computing" (or some technology just like it) to make their intention into a reality; if you want to run Microsoft's software you will have to run it on computers which only run Microsoft's software or software written by Microsoft's partners (in other words, companies which have bought the right to have their software run on MS's hardware). So they can make the cost of hardware approach zero, so long as they can be sure the hardware is only usable for purposes for which they can make some money. Of course, all of this depend on governments around the world letting MS get away from it.

    --
    Reality is defined by the maddest person in the room
  56. Re:Precisely - we can't even get WYSIWYG HTML righ by WNight · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sure, you can visually link a few tools together, piping output from one into another, and you can click a few boxes and generate a basic SQL query. Wow.

    That's great for hello-world level tasks, like calculating the fibonacci series, or defining a data model. Sure, you could essentially write a 'Notepad' equivalent with twenty clicks because it's mainly one big text-entry dialog with a file and edit menu, all of which use standard functions and know how to interact with the text dialog.

    Now write the grammar-checker. Or, write a program that generates a 3d-model from a list of surface descriptions in XML format. Write a 'bot' that navigates through the 3d-world described while considering tactical and strategic concerns.

    At some point all of the trivial clickable stuff is done and you need to do the heavy lifting - things for which no standard dialogs are written. And you always reach this point, if you try to go at all off the beaten path (you know, innovate). For the bot example you could 'click and drag' some inputs to customize an already-written bot AI if it was exposed as an API, but you couldn't make it do anything truly new.

    And your falacy in assuming we (the doubters) will be proven wrong is that there's a difference between doubting we'll ever reach the moon and doubting that we'll reach it with method X. I don't doubt that programming simple things will become easier, I already see this in fact. I merely doubt that it'll happen in a drag-and-drop interface and that this data modelling will ever be on the cutting edge.

    It'll come along and handle all the trivial stuff, like letting users script application usage, or define 'macros' in programs like Photoshop where you drag the output of a filter onto another filter, into a loop of filter and sharpen till a certain point, to a resize function, etc.

    We'll get to the moon, but your hot-air balloons won't be how - not that we won't have hot-air balloons, but it's painfully obvious to someone in the aerospace field that hot-air balloons are of limited use in travel between planetary bodies (though inflatable balloons did function well as a landing mechanism), much like clickable interfaces might be used as part of many systems, but not as the core.

  57. Re:Sustainibility by tomhudson · · Score: 5, Funny
    It's gonna be even worse than here at slashdot:
    1st poster: I'm a real programmer! I tell my computer what to do, and it generates the program.
    2nd poster: Hell, that's not programming. I take a pen and draw the lines between my users inputs and the expected outputs! That's REAL programming.
    3rd poster: You call that programming? Hell, I have to use a mouse, and I have to group all the users into categories, and pick the best inputs from those offered, blah blah blah ...
    4th poster: You young punks make me sick. I have to use a data glove to actually massage the objects you use to do what you expect them to.
    5th poster: ahem:
    MOV AX, B000h
    CMP AL, 05h
    JC SPRITE_FND
    JMP LOOP05
    - note: some assembly required :-)
    1st poster: WTF is that?
    2nd poster: Just some script kiddie.
    Man, will it be U G L Y.