Slashdot Mirror
SCO Uses 3rd Parties To Spread Claims In Germany
kryonD writes "According to this Computer Weekly article, SCO is no longer allowed to spread their FUD in Germany. This wasn't even a court or government order, but an out of court settlement with a small company. They even get 'fined' EU10,000 by the company for every breach of the settlement. Although, it appears from the article that SCO is side-stepping the agreement by commissioning 3rd party firms to spread their FUD for them. The settlement happened last month, but this is the first I have heard of it. I wonder what made them back down so quickly."
We mentioned the settlement earlier this month (including prohibitions on making certain claims); the news is the attempt to circumvent it.
FTA: "Gregory Blepp, vice-president of licensing at SCO in the US, said he was working to create legal conditions which require Linux users in Germany to purchase SCO's intellectual property licenses" Blepp dude come to our universe its not that bad. (i a n a l)
"It's so convenient to have a system where everyone is a criminal" - A. Hitler
A SCO story! It's about time!
sig != null
Fine SCO every time someone writes another article about them. They're being so damn frivolous that it pains me to hear anything else about them short of their ultimate demise.
This is just one of those stories where you hold your head in your hands and sigh. Now, SCO, write "I will observe the spirit of the law and not the letter" a thousand times on the board.
The Yasashii Syndicate ||
Go check Groklaw. IBM is asking for a declaratory judgement. SCOX trading tomorrow should be, um, amusing.
Where the inmates really *do* run the asylum.
If SCO can be sued and they settle by agreeing to not spread their propaganda, then it's equally possible that SCO's sidekick could be sued for exactly the same thing. Since there is a court precedent, wouldn't any company willing to do this think twice - because they would be sued too?
Everytime anyone says SCO you'll be fined eu1000
You said SCO!
Oooops I said SCO!
I said SCO again!
NI!
*DrugCheese rants*
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=200403301 84527522
http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104-5182078.html
Go not unto/. for advice, for you will be told both yea and nay (but have nothing to do with the question)
It's this kind of behavior that helps us see why they're afraid of showing code. They think that as soon as they do someone will find a clever way around their claims, just as they would do if put in the same position. Now, that doesn't change the fact that a lot of someones will probably find a lot of clever ways around their claims, but isn't that exactly what they should want if they were living in the same world as the rest of us?
There was Cowboy Neal at the wheel of a bus to never-ever land.
Keep your eyes to the sky.
If SCO isn't allowed to spread FUD then wouldn't commissioning other companies to do it also not be allowed?
The only way it would be legal is if the other company was acting on its own. If SCO paid them to say they were not acting on behalf of SCO, wouldn't that be illegal too?
The settlement disallows employees of SCO making claims agains Linux, but by commissioning an advertising company the company becomes employeed by SCO in some sort of sense... the article said that it was a borderline tactic, but methinks that if it wound up in court SCO would be penalised.
I drink to make other people interesting!
Then I can scan it and finally use ghostscript's toilet paper setting, I'd print SCO liscenses for everyone!
isn't this a case of the patsy using a patsy? What I wanna know is who is going to be the patsy for this paty's patsy.
Since when is Gregory Blepp able to create legal conditions. At best, he can lobby congress to push the UN to make a resoltuion that Germany should make a law forcing Germans to purchase "SCO's intellectual property"....hmmm I wonder at what point they would realize the futility in that one. Or they could lobby the German govn't directly....yeah, that will go over well.
I know there are trade agreements in place to respect IP laws, but I am curious as to how SCO can create "legal conditions" in other countries. Considering the troubles Microsoft is having in these same other countries, I would think SCO might have a slightly harder time of it.
If you are one in a million, then there are six thousand people who are just like you.
Q.
Insert Signature Here
It was an out of court settlement. There is no precedent. RTFSummary.
I don't think SCO should be completely ignored as long as they're still alive and kicking because their FUD machine is a dangerous thing, but maybe they should be limited to one weekly roundup instead of their near-daily coverage.
Aren't people already suspecting SCO is doing Microsoft's dirty work in its fight against OSS?
SCO got a German PR agency to write their claims in a news release. Since it's pretty obvious that no PR agency would by itself do so, couldn't SCO still be fined for making these claims, even if not directly? Even so, the agreement should've stopped "the claims being made" rather than "SCO making the claims," since SCO markedly benefits by the claims and can almost always be shown responsible for some random third-party's claim.
Interesting that this gains its strength through an out-of-court settlement with a private company that extends a temporary injunction against SCO's claims. Some US group (EFF? Red Hat? OSDN? Netscape? Isn't there a group of Linux vendors? FSF?) should try to do the same - get something small done in court, to say "We're not afraid of fighting this in court," then extend that considerably out of court with a promise to return to court.
Heh, the ad on this article is GlobalServers' "Stop worrying about SCO" ad.
Another poster already provided links to stories above.
The key thing here is that this was an out of court settlement. So there was no verdict, no ruling, no award... no precedent. Even if the judge had mandated this, many other countries don't attach the same sort of reverence to prior judicial decisions as the US does. Our reliance on precedence comes mainly from England (specifically common law). I don't know anything about Germany's judicial system so I have no idea what weight they give prior verdicts/rulings.
Are they going to sue every PR firm in Germany? Seems a little unrealistic, don't ya think?
I guess not always. But it seems like it sure should have been in this case, and if the settlement had that loophole then shame on Univention's lawyers for letting that slip.
Another interesting point, too. According to the Groklaw article about the settlement, the per-offense fine is only about 10,000 euros. That's not a lot, really; just a tiny extra bit of marketing budget for the FUD machine. Is that really all the teeth the settlement has?
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
was this suppose to be funny? like one of those in the US, users use the linux distro but in russia the distro uses the users??? what were you thinking?
"They think that as soon as they do someone will find a clever way around their claims, just as they would do if put in the same position"
That's a pretty goofy way to look at it.
You and SCO want to have it both ways. Essentially, you're claiming something infringes, but you don't want to admit what infringes because you realize your claims are so flimsy that they can be coded around quite easily.
SO which is it? If Linux is so tainted with SCO's patents and copyrights (as they claim), they could show infringement tomorrow. But if the infringement is so trivial, they I understand why they don't want to show it; they'd be the object of scorn and ridicule the world over.
SCO will die, and we will all be laughing and applauding. Get over it.
They could "work[] to create legal conditions" the same way they are here, through litigation. If TSG succeeds in their litigation here in the US they would have effectively created legal conditions (i.e., precedent indicating Linux infringes TSG copyrights) which would pressure Linux users to purchase licenses from TSG.
There was Cowboy Neal at the wheel of a bus to never-ever land.
Get Canopy Group out of QT and KDE
I thought SCO was more into computers and stuff, not Female Urinary devices. I guess they're trying to be like MS and get their foot into every possible door. Would you want a windows ran pacemaker?
Grandparent is alluding to the "when you have sex, you're having sex with everyone your partner has ever had sex with" FUD (that's what it is) that's spread in many American abstinence-obsessed sex-education classes.
I just thought of this, with the number of times the summary said, "FUD".
Can we really call the crap SCO is spewing, "FUD"? At this point, no one fears them, everyone is certain they are making this stuff up as they go, of that there is no doubt.
I think the term adds too much credibility to SCO's statements.
The Court can order it so, a media blackout on SCO* and the like. Offenders pay dearly.
It happens all the time in Canada.
The object of war is not to die for your country but to make
the other poor bastard die for his.
--General George S. Patton
Do we at slashdot have a double standard here? As a firm Linux advocate, I dislike SCO as much as the next /.-er, and consider them a danger to the open source community. But we must remember that freedom of speech should extend to our enemies as well as us, or we're no better than hypocrites when we protest against the censorship of the next bit of free speech that's squashed by the DMCA.
now I lay me down, to sleep
I pray the lord, my linux keep
and if I die, before I wake
please cause the failure, of Darl's brakes.
-AMEN-
Obama is a twitter sock puppet
There.. in the title and everything... IANAL
But if SCO agrees not to spread propaganda and then used proxies to spread propaganda didn't they just violate the agreement?
SCO seams to have a very... creative interpretation of laws as they apply to them and others.
I've recently had the opratunity to read vareous text files on how to steal, rip off, blow up, etc etc etc by the crooks that use and perficted those techniques.
Very intresting read if you know how to read between the lines. Basicly they have very unusual/odd interpretations of the applicable laws.
For example one crook has a whole detailed thing on how to get out the door with stuff he didn't buy and create the illusion that he did. (Probably dosen't work anymore).
The intresting part is how he views the applicable laws. He seems to believe that you need to get out the door before you can be stopped for theft. I've observed a few occasions where a crook was cought BEFORE leaving the store. Again IANAL but it sure as heck looks like he was cought dead to rights but I'd have to see how it played out in the corts before I'd know.
The diffrence between the typical crook and SCO is most of what the typical crook is doing is trying to NOT envoke the law no matter how much he believes its on his side. SCO however isn't making any such efforts.
I don't actually exist.
as strange as this seems in most area when a person talks a group of other into doing something ilegal they are acomplices and it they cause a crowd to riot they are charged too.
I don't know about germany's laws but wouldn't the association with the persons doing the action that SCO tryed and was bared from basicaly the same as inciting a riot. Couldn't they still be held acountable anyways loop holes or not. i think it would be the same as if a mob boss ordered the execution of someone, even though somone else did the killing the mob bos can get the rap for it.
well at least thats what i think it should be like. anyone know if it would be that way in germany?
And in other news, SCO raises the price of SCO Unix to $10,699.
Let's say you lose your license to drive. There is nothing stopping you from hiring someone to drive you around.
As Joseph Goebbels said, that if you repeat a lie often enough, people will end up believing it.
This is what SCrOtum's plan is, to keep the FUD spewing forth and just the politicians who keep getting elected, it is what the "people" know, because they keep hearing about it.
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
In ancient times there used to be a similar fine (read: death penalty) for mentioning the names of psychopaths who destroyed important pieces of art (who were doing that so that their names remained in history).
The Raven
Yes, I know, there is much to not like about European politics and they sometimes have strange ways about doing things. And the taxes, holy cow. But at least they know that the United States does not rule the world.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
More like
In America, Microsoft uses SCO (to spread FUD)
1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
Because I was not a SCO user...
When they came for me, there was no one left to speak up to.
Wait what am I talking about?
Why do we even have a bottle? Will someone please tell me?
Great precident.
How are they still around? I seriously thought they'd have been gone six months ago. SCO isn't that big of a company, how are they able to afford all those lawyers and lawsuits?
Also, what happened to Darl McBride? He used to be all over the place giving lectures and interviews. Seems to have disappeared.
Outsource SCO to India... that will teach a lesson... Oh my god ! This is about SCO and UNIX right?? I forgot --)
Whenever I'm infringing someone else's copyright, I want them to tell me so I can stop or buy a license. I don't want them to keep silent until they are ready to sue me.
Good afternoon, The SCO IP license for Linux is available for purchase online at http://www.sco.com/scosource/howtobuy.html Regards Kieran Kieran O'Shaughnessy Regional General Manager ANZ The SCO Group 56 Berry Street North Sydney NSW 2060 Australia Tel: +61 2 9440 7577 Fax: +61 2 9440 7588 Mob: 0419 66 00 16 Web: www.thescogroup.com
is a perp-walk for Darl. And eventually a horny roommate named Bubba. (Uh, for Darl, that is...)
They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...
it seems that microsoft sent funds to SCO and that this seems to be true, anyone know if this is 100% true? or can point me for further reference? thanks.
:) just maybe.
as i see it (call me craezy, i know i am) seems like microsoft is sweating it big time with OpenSource. i say this because now we can see a more agressive microsoft towards OpenSource... maybe OpenSource has become more than just a 1% of the market share and that's making microsoft worrie....maybe
pz
Didn't the city of Munich recently switch to Linux for their operations? Wasnt that a HUGE loss for MS?
Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley
The settlement was for SCO violating an injunction which was granted by a judge. So I don't quite see your point.
If I say "Hey! That post violated my copyrights. Yes, mine. No I won't say which ones or what part of the post."
Now pay up sucker^H^H^H^H^H^Hfriend."
That doesn't go over so well with the courts. SCO was forced to either prove their claims, file a copyright infringement suit, or shut up. SCO chose to shut up. Then, later they continued their PR attacks. So they had to pay a fine.
It is a pity that the PR company isn't named. Linux is getting well established as a server platform in many of Germany's largest banks and IBM are quite powerful there too.
I mean come on, raise your hand if you're really surprised by this. These people are clearly betting the farm with the claims they're making in the hopes that they'll either be bought out by Big Blue or win the case by dazzling a Judge with bullshit. It shouldn't be news for anyone here to find out that they're willing to violate a legal agreement. After all, they've already torn up the GPL and started shoving US copyright law into the shredder several pages at a time.
--Obyron
SCO won't be bought out because they have value. Why spend $60 Million on a company that has no assets? Why spend $60 Million on a company that is in the red and with no plan to return to profitiablity?
Never underestimate the stupidity, suggestability, and primitive superstitious fears of the Pointy Haired Boss.
In the year 2525
If man is still alive.
If woman can survive, they may find.
In the year 3535
Ain't gonna need to tell the truth, tell no lies.
Everything you think, do and say, is in the pill you took today.
In the year 4545
Ain't gonna need your teeth, won't need your eyes.
You won't find a thing to chew.
Nobody's gonna look at you.
In the year 5555
Your arms hanging limp at your sides.
Your legs got nothing to do.
Some machine doing that for you.
In the year 6565
Ain't gonna need no husband, won't need no wife.
You'll pick your son, pick your daughter too.
From the bottom of a long glass tube. Whoa-oh
In the year 7510
If God's a-comin, he oughta make it by then.
Maybe he'll look around himself and say.
Guess it's time for the judgment day.
In the year 8510
God is gonna shake his mighty head.
He'll either say.I'm pleased where man has been.
Or tear it down and start again. Whoa-oh
In the year 9595
I'm kinda wonderin if man is gonna be alive.
He's taken everything this old Earth can give.
And he ain't put back nothing.Whoa-oh
Now it's been ten thousand years
Man has cried a billion tears.
For what he never knew,
now man's reign is through.
But through eternal night.
The twinkling of starlight.
So very far away.
Maybe it's only yesterday.
In the year 2525
If man is still alive.
If woman can survive, they may find.
In the year 3535
12000
I like 2525 by Zager Evans as much as the next guy, but I am curious about what point (if any) you are trying to make.
Help fight continental drift.
Amusingly enough, you can't purchase more than 99 licences through the website. They've got a crappy shopping cart that only accepts 2 digits for the quantity.
I tried seeing if I could get their server to crash by filling the quantity box with a big string of garbage text, but no such luck....
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
Hmmm... don't understand how this relates to the article per se...
.deviatefromtheabsolute.
... unlike the US. While precendents can be set, there is the Bundesgesetzbuch (BGB) that pretty much lays out the law. However, the real kicker WRT to German court law is that the loser has to pay the court costs for both sides.
This has several interesting effects: Frivolous lawsuits are rarer, lawyers are paid much lower hourly billing rates, and health insurance is much more affordable. IMHO, this is a much more equitable way to run a legal system than the parasitic mess we have in the US.
Frankly, the folks at SCO should be forced to post bond to assure their countersuers will have something to collect on if SCO goes out of business. Furthermore, I hope that the current management will be held personally liable for their actions while at SCO. Once pointy-headed managers see that there are reprecussions that reach beyond the destruction of a company, perhaps they'll lay off the roullette-wheel approach to attain profits.
With the recent stocks, I see new waves of spam mails:
Just buy 101'000 IP licenses and get 1 SCO for free!
SCO Online store? I would love to buy a SCO t-shirt and mug. Why not some SCO brand toilet paper...
I know you are psychotic, but please make an effort.
"It would really surprise us if SCO is already trying to breach our out-of-court settlement less than one month after signing it."
Why would that surprise anybody?
This is what SCO does. Spreading FUD almost appears to be the company's main source of income.
SCO is attempting to extort money from people. It has no proof that anybody owes the money it's claiming, and has no legal backing to claim it anyway.
SCO has just added to its crimes. When you're bad, why not be badder?
Linux/Open Source/Anti Microsoft News
I don't know anything about Germany's judicial system so I have no idea what weight they give prior verdicts/rulings.
They work only in a hierarchical system. Decisions a superior court makes are practicaly seen as precedents. However it is always possible for a minor court to decide otherwise if it has reason to do so.
But not the current crop of CEOs, oh no. They'll fuck anyone and everyone over so that they can make a buck. Or several million of them.
What we need is a mandatory Samauari-style honor code for corporate upper management. With mandatory seppku for the most grevious infractions. Even if the upper management at MCI, Tyco and Enron were completely spotless, they should have all ritually disemboweled themselves for the shameful actions that took place at their companies on their watches. We should expect no less from the people who are the custodians of our fortunes.
"Oh Sure, Mr Fox," you might say, "like that will ever happen!" But it can. All we really need to do is each and every one of us teach our children to live with honor. We can start with a code as simple as "Never lie, never do anything you know is wrong and never do anything you would be ashamed of," and we can go from there.
Of course, the current crop of CEOs would have to have right from wrong spelled out for them, since apparently even the letter and spirit of the law wasn't enough of a hint, but I don't think it'd be an insurmountable goal.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Congrats on the new job Iraqi Bob.
I really loved that line about how Sadam would never be defeated and I await your forthcomming rant on how SCO is winning the lawsutes and not getting spanked by IBM.
10 print "I will observe the letter of the law";
/n at the end... :)
20 goto 10
PS for C you needed to have a
But I stold SCOs IP for "Hello world" in basic to do mine.
It's SCO making clames by proxy.. the marketting company is mearly spreading them. This changes nothing.
Ficken sie, arseloch..
Liebe, Deutscheland..
I like the sound of that last one.
... I will send you my cousin to give you a hit ....
You must be new here. It's an acronym for "I Am Not A Lawyer".
I'm guessing legal groups are happy for the whole debacle to continue. After all it's a win-win situation for lawyers. Argh!!! Ghagh!!! The only thing coming close to my dislike for senseless legal stuff is insurance companies. They are what clever people set up instead of casinos - they make much more money - the house still always wins, but the expected return for punters is less - and in the case of motorists - they HAVE to place bets!!!
-- *~()____) This message will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
He destroyed temple of Artemis in Efeze (one of the seven wonders of the ancient world) just to get his name in the history books.
Oddly enough, 23 centeries later a small fast food joint in Rotterdam was named after him.
And now a /. comment to boot!
playing "DA" (not district attorney) here.
You have to admit, even in the midst of a legal issue, taking on two monumental giants (open source community, and IBM), and spitting out propaganda they are smart to continue on their quest. They somehow still have time and intelligence to sew their seed in foreign countries. This looks like the group is just using legislation as a smoke-screen, everything they are doing stems from intellectual property which they bought up. Since they bought up the IP and they're not distributing anything new I'm not worrying. They can go around till doomsday distributing "licenses" all they want, still doesn't mean i have to buy one now! US and most common International law states that an individual can't be charged retroactively for a crime committed before a law was created (how does he know it's wrong)...
"I'm not really sure who owns the base code anymore, it's just too confusing your honor. If you'd be so kind as to point to the party who does own the code i will apologize and be on my way."
This is sort of a stretch, but SCO's shelf life is wanning, and i for one don't see myself switching over to UNIX anytime soon.....
What's SCO's stance on FreeBSD?
Title: Master Plan
Article: Our master plan is now well underway and even the EU can't stop us with their petty fines and rulings against our company. We WILL control the world! Bwahahaha! Oh, how do I stop this thing from typing what I say? Bill said all I have to do is . . .
You become a genius of a general with enough backbone to take a stand against your superiors and common sense?
Excellent.
BTW, I've never bothered getting laid because I resent the stupid lies and games that one must play.
And this is FUD how? And since it's mostly spread by those who are trying to fight AIDS with prophylaxis, rather than abstinence, don't you think you're a little off?
heheh, "rigid attention".
"[...] The settlement happened last month, but this is the first I have heard of it. I wonder what made them back down so quickly."
:-) so they have to prove it. But they can't. A German court might have ruined their attempt in the USA. So they backed off just to keep their processes in the US running. The copyright in Europe is slightly different from the US one (only lawyers can explain that).
This is very easy. They run arround in Germany claiming Linux is their property. But not all agreed with them
Also the German Government in pro OSS, Linux. So they can't get any help from them. The US-Government might be closer to SCO. As SCO is fighting for (or against) IP. Ans IP is the only resource which is largly owned by US-Companies but not by the rest of the world.
Thoroughly mistaken. You overestimated me.
I did not have Nazi Germany in mind -- or even Germany itself -- when making that post. I took what I saw, applied the American legal system to it, and analyzed it. My apologies if I sounded dumb.
stick to your corrupt morals and your culture of victimization and non-responsibility, here in Germany we will take care of our own
You've got your own corrupt morals and victimization complex? Wow, you guys are really creative. I thought the US pretty much had that culture down. Great job!