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A Public Library's Linux Success Story
Joe Barr writes "What with the spate of professionally PR-generated FUD coming out of Redmond about Linux not being open source, or Windows having a lower TCO, and - believe it or not - even a claim that Windows is more reliable, it's good to read about some real world, grass-root results of successful migrations from Windows to Linux. This story at NewsForge takes a look at the Howard County (Maryland) Public Library's roll-out of over 200 public-use PCs, which used to run on Windows and now run on a custom Linux distribution called Lumix."
what was the FUD about Linux NOT being open source!? i missed that somewhere.... that sounds like MS desperately grasping at straws
link please?
May you be touched by His Noodly Appendage. RAmen.
Using LFS as a starting point, Luis and Mike were able to build a minimal Linux kernel that included only the functionality required by the "kiosk style" machines. They added the Gnome desktop environment, the Mozilla browser, and OpenOffice.org to complete the picture.
If you don't need much more than websurfing and wordprocessing functionality, it doesn't make much sense to keep up with the Joneses running Windows.
Windows is a very capable OS with many features for many tasks. Most of those features, however, are wholly unsuited for a kiosk and totally extraneous.
Linux, OTOH, is able to step in at these places and fill just enough of the hole left by the Windows uninstallation with Windows software clones that the average kiosk user can hardly tell the difference.
I have been pwned because my
Library management is happy because of the money it is saving. Those savings come from reduced administration costs and from hardware savings.
9 7;fp;2;fpid;1
Bout time someone actually tested the fact that the admin costs are cheaper. I agree. But many others dont:
http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.php/id;3838698
http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/41485
And much more...
-Imidazole2
Most libraries are stuck with Windows simply because they don't have enough money to move away (it does COST money to get everything working with linux) or because they're required to stay with Microsoft because their systems were donated by Microsoft or one of the related foundations. Lots of libraries are very, very tight on budget and simply can't afford the initial cost of the switchover.
Geoffeg
I've been trying to get Libraries and School Systems to integrate linux for years, and nobody ever listens to me. In my limited experience, the upper-level staff at Schools and Libraries can be so afraid of change, or afraid of "impending doom", that they can't let go of the Windows security blanket. They don't care that Linux can make their systems more reliable and save money -- They are just worried about not having a number to call. It's refreshing to see that this isn't always the case.
The local public library (somewhere in Mass.) here has an iMac sitting in the front lobby, with the iTunes application running - for people to browse through their library of songs.
I went and asked the librarian(s) about the machine and they said Apple had donated it. Interesting concept - free advertising and people think the company's being Good (TM) by donating to the public library. Not very useful for downloading songs though, given the DRM restrictions on downloads. All the other machines running the Catalog app are Windows though.
Just thought it was interesting enough to post here on /. ... pardon the OTness.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
Lumix info is here
This sounds like a perfect fit to me. Given that budgets for libraries the country over are systematically being cut, not having to add the cost of software licensing to a collection of public access PC's is a great boon. Considering that the majority of computer use in the library is limitied to the internet and word processing the availability of suitable open source alternatives for these two activities also fits well. All in all I'd be surprised if we don't hear of more institutions moving to this as money becomes tight.
I know many years ago I donated a collection of 486 and early pentiums to a shop in brooklynn that refurbished them and distributed them to inner city workshops that taught kids how to work on computers. I can only imagine how much of a boon to this program it would have been had linux then been up to the level that it is today.
Sir, there is a dragon outside with an armful of armor. He's inquiring if we offer free refills.
Here in Silicon Valley, Sunnyvale and the new Santa
Clara library are totally on Windows. I havn't yet
been to the new MLK in San Jose -- scary thing is
I see people using public computers and IE to do
online transactions.
it's about time for some good news.
I wonder how this is going to be affected by the government-mandated filters for sex information, science, art, and other governmentally-defined "objectionable material"?
To celebrate the occasion of my 1000th post, I will post no more forever on Slashdot. Goodbye.
The turning point came when Dynix, a major vendor of library software, began to offer a new version of PAC, which enables public access to library catalogues. PAC can be used on any platform with a Web browser. Auger saw it as an opportunity to escape the Windows cash crunch.
What's that? Universally readable data? But, but, what about DRM?
Universally readable AND free. What will those criminal open source people think of next?
Power to the people, and may the Source be with us!
Nostalgia ain't what it used to be.
I finally got my friend John (a HARDCORE XP nerd btw) to try Linux for his corporate desktop machine. I chose FC1 and KDE 3.2.2. As I sat there with him, he is saying things like WOW! THAT'S SWEET! After I told him the cost of implementation (and let's face it guys, it's never zero) he was aghast. "So we can outfit an entire office for the cost of one Windows server license?"
... if I ever go back to Windows ... "
:-)
As for the "higher cost of training" fud, thats utter bullshit. Within two hours he was just as productive as he was in XP. He's using Kontact (he actually liked it better than evolution), Mozilla, Open Office, etc.
Towards the end of the day, he said, "
On a side-note, he asked me why everything starts with K. I told him about KDE's naming scheme. He called me up a while later and said, "How do I find my ip address? Is it kipconfig?"
bash: rtfm: command not found
What with the spate of professionally PR-generated FUD coming out of Redmond about Linux not being open source, or Windows having a lower TCO, and - believe it or not - even a claim that Windows is more reliable,...
Is there any reason at all to include this statement in the headline of this submission? Does it seriously achieve anything other than reflect negatively on (particularly) the poster and, unfortunately (once again), the entire linux/os community? This submission is interesting in it's own right, it doesn't need to be put up in the fight against the Great Big Evil (TM).
In fact, for all you moderators, it perfectly illustrates the difference between (+1, interesting) and (-1, troll).
"Because it's there." - George Mallory, when asked why he wanted to climb Mt Everest, March 18, 1923 (New York Times)
Both stories backed up with loud exclamations of "TAKE THAT, M$ PR PEOPLE!!!" that suggest he spends far more time thinking about them than they do about Linux.
This library adoption is great. There is absolutely no reason to use Windows in this context and it's good to see Linux being used. (I'm curious to hear how the proposed switch to Open Office goes, but it will probably be fine, also.) But after five years of LINUX IS READY FOR THE DESKTOP!!!, the level of spraying seems a bit excessive for these two stories.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
They mentioned that they had trouble locking down the system. I am surprised that they didn't use KDE and its kiosk mode. It allows you to specify any setting in any kde application and lock it down so users can't change it. There is even a GUI tool in beta right now that lets set and lock the settings.
-Benjamin Meyer
Do you changes clothes while making the "chee-chee-cha-cha-choh" transformation sound?
This is a perfect example of an application where Linux is ideal (as opposed to "main stream desktop OS"). The puters are used for surfing the net and searching though library catalogs. Both these tasks are performed gracefully by Linux and Linux offers a lot better control for the sys admin to lock down the OS (relative WinXP for example). The only person who need any REAL computer knowledge is the sys admin, the users never touch anything other than the two or three applications they're supposed to use.
Better control for the sys admin, ease of use for the n00bs, increased stability and security, and lower TCO for the library. Could it be any better?
SIG: TAKE OFF EVERY 'CAPTAIN'!!
My roommate and I noticed something the other day at CompUSA. Most people don't have anything against Linux and open source per se, they're just uninformed.
;^)
There was a gentleman about to purchase some software. I forget exactly what, but it was something that most certainly existed for Linux free as in both speech and beer. Scott stopped him and explained very simply about Linux and how he doesn't actually need to pay one red cent for most software. By the end of the conversation, he was all ready to run home and boot a Knoppix CD to try it out. Even his wife was interested.
It wasn't that they were afraid to try something new, it was just that they didn't realize there are alternatives to Windows.
Now, corporations have another problem: the Sunken Cost Fallacy. Managers don't seem to understand that, for most business uses of a computer, there is no real reason to use Windows. They furthermore believe that, since they've already paid for a Windows environment, they'd lose that investment if they switched, and thus continue to pay.
I've found in my professional life that most office workers need very little to do their job. Office Suite, Web Browser, Calendar/Collaboration Software, Email, File Sharing, and maybe a simple Database: that's it.
Granted, there are some applications professionals use that don't currently exist in usable form on Linux, but those users can remain on Windows for the time being. (Or WINE, if they're adventurous). The first step is switching over all the office drones and secretaries who, quite frankly, don't need much software to do their job.
Heh... We're seriously considering standing outside of CompUSA one day and handing out Knoppix CDs and pamphlets. Spread the word. Vive la revolution! Blah blah blah....
You get my point
GeekNights!
Late Night Radio for Geeks!
"The only sites they can't reach are those that require Internet Explorer. And while they can't play Shockwave games..."
Why not? there is a shockwave plugin avilable that works with Mozilla and Konqueror (that I know of). Granted the plugin sucks royal ass and runs about half the speed it would on a comparable Windows box, that is shockwave's fault, however. But it still works.
Also a little useragent tweaking should get most of those "IE required" sites working too.
I am glad to see this. It seems libraries are having enough trouble these days with budget cuts without having to worry about how they are going to pay expensive software licenses.
the thing to make it easier would have been using LTSP and turn all machines out in the common area into X terminals and simply buy/use one decent server for the backroom and you are finished.
upgrade OO.o and instantly all other machines are upgraded.
Hell a old P-233 machine is 200 times faster than the best NCD X terminal you can buy and insanely cheaper.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Most other patrons don't notice the OS change at all, except that they don't crash or get hit with popups/malware/etc, which is an excellent endorsement for Linux in public terminals.
I hope the library has a good remote method for updates though. As much as I dislike Windows, SUS is A Good Thing. Also, they really ought to jump to Firefox when it hits 1.0.2 or so.So many people become inured to the nuisances of MS Software that they don't realize that there's an alternative. Also, they don't realize that those alternatives are as good as Microsoft's or better and
Now, if they could only get that patron to download Firefox at home...
Exactly.
Actually, despite the average poster's contrary views, Microsoft lost the so-called "browser war".
Netscape is destroyed, but Microsoft failed to destroy the Internet (and they did try to do exactly that with their at the time proprietary, incompatible MSN in the early 90's, which even got an icon in the default Windows 95 installation) and now they are scared because computers are connected with TCP/IP, HTTP, HTML, FTP, etc. all invented (or "innovated") in the OSS community, all open, all free and most importantly, all available on non-MS platforms.
Even the most rabid winlots won't be able to claim with a straight face that a browser-only setup is cheaper with Windows. With more and more specialized and in-house software being developed web-based (mostly because of easier maintanance), Microsoft's lock on many desktops has weakened or even disappeared.
>Most libraries are stuck with Windows simply because they don't have enough money to move away (it does COST money to get everything working with linux)
As geoffeg also notes, libraries are extremely crunched for money. They love volunteers for that reason. If a local linux users group worked out a long-term volunteer agreement with their local public library to help with their catalogue and IS systems, I'm sure it could result in switching their systems over to linux. It would take a bit of time and energy to earn trust and to help the librarians see the value, but I'm sure it could be a great way to help your local library and expose more people to linux at the same time.Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
http://de.samba.org/samba/docs/man/howto/samba-
Samba-3 is capable of acting as a Backup Domain Controller (BDC) to another Samba Primary Domain Controller (PDC). A Samba-3 PDC can operate with an LDAP Account backend. The LDAP backend can be either a common master LDAP server, or a slave server. The use of a slave LDAP server has the benefit that when the master is down, clients may still be able to log onto the network. This effectively gives Samba a high degree of scalability and is an effective solution for large organizations. If you use an LDAP slave server for a PDC, you will need to ensure the master's continued availability - if the slave finds it's master down at the wrong time, you will have stability and operational problems.
Many LUGs even meet at libraries. I'm sure an arrangement could be made. It would serve as an excellent opportunity for a LUG to train its less clued members and to accomplish something to help their community library at the same time.
I can count to 1023 on my hands. Ask me about #132.
Luis and Mike, however, are offering additional assistance for those who require it. They can be reached at the LumixTech Web site.
Ouch. You gotta feel sorry for their mailserver and webserver now that this has been brought to the attention of"The Howard County Public Library burned to the ground today when several computers burst into flames, touching off the conflagration."....
The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. - Mark Twain
I didn't see any indication that they were making it clear to the Library patrons that they were using Linux and not Windows. I think that's a massive lost opportunity.
Seriously. It's great that Linux can seamlessly replace Windows in such a high-traffic environment. It would be even greater if there were signs near the kiosks reading something like:
Our kiosks run Linux, the free alternative to Microsoft Windows. We have made this switch to keep costs down as well as reduce virus problems and computer crashes.
Slowly, but surely, the patrons -- or other librarians, or visiting school teachers -- will notice -- it may not matter then, but later...
For example, six months later, a secretary who has been using the library is switched to Linux at work. Now, instead of freaking out when I.T. Guy he's removing Windows from her/his machine, (s)he thinks, "Oh! They run that at the library. I can do that."
Or better yet, perhaps (s)he, having gotten hit with yet another virus, starts telling her supervisor, "Why don't we switch to Linux? It's free and has fewer viruses, and I know how to use it."
Will it happen fast? No. But floods start with a trickle. HoCo is to be commended for making the switch -- now they should toss in a little marketing, too.
In the sense that Linux is the result of an open source project, and linux != open source.
Because if that was true, then mozilla = linux.
So it's the same thing as a Ford rep saying "Cars are not Corvettes". Because then, A Ford Focus would be a Corvette.
And no matter how much you pray at night, your Ford Focus won't turn into a corvette.
-asoap
Treat me like a marketing stat, and I'll treat your movie like a series of ones and zeros
I have dual-boot, so I can compare a bit:
Games:
XP: Lots, some older 98 games broken
Linux: Less, some windows games work via Wine, increasing support (Doom3, HL2) expected
Internet:
XP: Firefox/IE
Linux: Firefox
Email:
XP: Thunderbird
Linux: Thunderbird
Media:
XP: Winamp, WMP
Linux: XMMS/MPlayer (DVD's sometimes an issue)
P2P:
XP: KazaaLite, Emule
Linux: Emule
IM:
XP: MSN 6.1, GAIM
Linux: GAIM
Office:
XP: MS/OpenOffice
Linux: OpenOffice
CD Burning:
XP: Nero, lots of others
Linux: MKCD, lots of others
DVD Burning:
XP: Many suck, currently testing ULead DVD Workshop 2 (awesome)
Linux: Experimenting (suggestions welcome)
Those are my regular activities. Some of the other stuff may or may not work in linux
You should have read more carefully before posting. It says Each PC runs runs a script twice a day. They are not logging on to each machine, but the machines keep themselves up to date through I would guess a reference box.
In fact, if you read the other article in the link, it says each machine is set up to wake-on-LAN, so they can be turned on and off remotely as well.
This must be god-sent to the Librarians. The machines turn themselves on and off, they update themselves from a central server (probably set up for the whole county), and they erase cookies and cache themselves. No more playing IT Admin whenever there is a new MS patch, no more virii, and at no additional software cost. As long as someone intelligent is updating the reference machine, this is an ideal set-up-and-forget system. I really hope this catches on.
In Soviet Russia, articles before post read *you*!
I live in Howard County. After a semester in college, I spent my winter break living at home. When I went to the library, I noticed that the library was running linux on their terminals. They've done a very good job setting up their computers to suit everyone's needs. The free wifi is a great service, too.
~The log of the limit is equal to the limit of the log.
I'm a programmer for a library automation software provider. The switch to Linux for many libraries just isn't practical. Of course the desktop licenses for Microsoft aren't cheap, but even more expensive are the licenses from the ILS (integrated library system) providers. Of course, most of the viable solutions are Microsoft only and the cost of switching to a Linux or cross platform solution, like the one developed here, is just not feasible. The initial costs of one of these systems can be very expensive; remember that many libraries interact in 'consortia', trading books and data in many ways to reduce cost. To change software vendors is a very expensive project indeed, one that can cost many hundreds of thousands of dollars, plus, of course, the yearly service contracts for support, bugfixes, upgrades.. The company that I work for uses client side Java and C on the server side. Most of our libraries use Windows on the client side, but some use Mac and the use of Linux is on the rise. The server also runs on Linux, but HP and Sun currently see almost all of the action here, but I suspect this will change especially as some of the libraries that have switched to Linux on the server report of their success (cross your fingers) and cost savings. The biggest use of our cross-platform capability to this point has definitely been by our marketing department. I do suspect however that this ability is attractive to those wiley librarians, who are skeptical of most things and especially so of Microsoft. I suspect that as the cost of library software increases the attraction of Linux will also increase. And yes, there are Open Source efforts in the library automation domain (see http://www.ala.org/ala/lita/litapublications/ital/ volume21no1.htm#anchor338989
for an overview) but from what I've seen and read, they've got a long way to go before they are a viable solution for anything other than the simplest library. This is one programmer that won't be spending their time contributing to an open source library system.. 40hrs a week is plenty for me. :)
Install
OpenOffice.Org
Mozilla
VideoLAN
7-Zip
WinGimp
Open AntiVirus
Then see if the users can use them and get used to them. Then maybe when you do switch to Linux, they will be using the same apps, but under Linux. With maybe the exception of 7-Zip, no Linux port yet?
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.