Slashdot Mirror


Free MIT Engineering Text For Download

An anonymous reader writes " The (sci-tech) Library Question is reporting, "The third edition of A Heat Transfer Textbook, written by John H Lienhard V (MIT) and John H Lienhard IV (U Houston), has been made available on the web. The book is an introduction to heat transfer, geared towards engineering students. It may be downloaded free of charge. The authors explain: We are placing a mechanical engineering textbook into an electronic format for worldwide, no-charge distribution. The aim of this effort is to explore the possibilities of placing textbooks online -- effectively giving them away. Two potential benefits should accrue from doing this. First, in electronic format, textbooks can be continually corrected and updated, without the delays inherent in printed books (second and later editions are typically published on a five-year cycle). Second, free textbooks hold the potential for fundamentally altering the economics of higher education, particularly in those environments where money is scarce."

207 comments

  1. Other experiments would be nice too by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    The aim of this effort is to explore the possibilities of placing textbooks online -- effectively giving them away.

    How would you like to explore the possibilities of placing your credit card number online?

    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
  2. posting textbooks by neuroinf · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is a great initiative. It promotes the idea that we should look at the real value in education. The real value is in the people students get to work with (eg. the authors), and the personal experiences they go through on the way to graduate. Why should publishers make profits in this process when they don't add value?

    1. Re:posting textbooks by fbform · · Score: 4, Informative

      Brad Lucier at Purdue founded an online publishing group called Trillia, which does something similar.
      He has submitted a related story on Slashdot before.

      --
      Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
    2. Re:posting textbooks by cmdrxizor · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Of course, it could also be asked why should the authors participate in this process if they don't make any profits?

      Writing a textbook is not an easy feat, and posting them online for free download doesn't give the author any sort of compensation for their work other than the satisfaction of making students happy.

      Also, I find it unlikely that this will really catch on, simply because most of the professors I've dealt with simply would not consider a textbook like this, or wouldn't even be aware of it. The publishing industry does market itself really well - professors get sample books which often end up being used for classes. A prof might see an online book as being somehow of lesser caliber (in terms of factual accuracy, author credentials, or otherwise) than an actual printed book.

      I would imagine there would also be legal liability issues involved in this, suh as if the text accidentally contained false information.

      It's a good idea, but I don't think it's the way to go. Low-cost textbook distribution needs to happen, but I don't think no-cost will work -- at least not yet.

    3. Re:posting textbooks by gnu-generation-one · · Score: 4, Informative
    4. Re:posting textbooks by Shisha · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It is a well known fact that the authors don't get much (financially) for publishing a textbook. On the other hand I wouldn't go as far as saying that publishers don't add any value, but I'd say that the value they add is not proportional to the final price.

      The trouble, of course, is that with (especially graduate) textbooks, there are very few people who'd possibly buy it, making publishing them an expensive task.

      By the way, if you're intrested in mathematical analysis but you aren't prepared to spend an entire years budget on those nice yellow Springer books, check out Modern analysis online for not so much books as lecture notes; still a good source.

      As a side note: The papers on "Modern Analysis Online" are still copyrighted by their respective authors. I'm sure you can download them, print them, but certainly not publish them. The website has all the boring details.

    5. Re:posting textbooks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Translation:
      I don't want to make any money since I'm not fond of eating and I don't change my clothes often enough. Also, I don't mind other cultures being put on an equal footing with mine so that they can eventually conquer our little kingdom and then completely reverse any human equalities we have strived to achieve.

      First texts on heat transfer, next thermonuclear technology and maybe even sausage design.

    6. Re:posting textbooks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why have they put Perl in the general puropose languages category, Ruby in the "Object Oriented languages" category and Python under "scripting languages"?

      http://wikibooks.org/wiki/Programming:List_of_lang uages

    7. Re:posting textbooks by gnu-generation-one · · Score: 1

      "Why have they put Perl in the general puropose languages category, Ruby in the "Object Oriented languages" category and Python under "scripting languages"?"

      Change it if you like.

      I have to admit that I'm responsible for a load of the Perl book, and I'm still not sure if it's in programming:perl or programming:languages:perl

    8. Re:posting textbooks by matthewr84 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Authors generally don't make much money off of textbooks anyway, it's more about name recognition and being a productive member of academia.

      As far as other professors adopting the books, I could see it happening. I've had quite a few professors that seemingly complained about the price of textbooks more than the students did. I've even had a handful that put a textbook on the syllabus to keep the state happy but then told us not to waste our money on the textbook on the first day of class and instead make use of the online resources and class notes provided. They'd love to see something like this.

      Not to mention in good old open-source fashion, professors using the books could quite possibly be able to have more input in the process. They might be more favorably inclined to the accuracy of the material if they knew they and others can and do correct mistakes.

    9. Re:posting textbooks by jpkunst · · Score: 1

      Of course, it could also be asked why should the authors participate in this process if they don't make any profits?

      Generally, academic writers don't make any profit. Their reward is the recognition of being published by a big-name scientific publishing house. The only one who makes a monetary profit is the publisher.

      JP

    10. Re:posting textbooks by M.+Baranczak · · Score: 1

      I would imagine there would also be legal liability issues involved in this, such as if the text accidentally contained false information.

      What are you talking about? Why would that be an issue with an on-line text, but not with a printed book? It would actually be less of a problem, since you could easily correct an on-line edition.

    11. Re:posting textbooks by tonywong · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      If you're tired of free textbooks, how about some sciencefiction for free?

      http://www.baen.com/library/

    12. Re:posting textbooks by bcrowell · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Also, I find it unlikely that this will really catch on, simply because most of the professors I've dealt with simply would not consider a textbook like this, or wouldn't even be aware of it.
      I've written some open-source physics textbooks that have been adopted at eighteen schools. Not trying to blow my own horn -- I just wanted to provide a counterexample.

    13. Re:posting textbooks by ebusinessmedia1 · · Score: 2, Informative

      This is another in a continuing series of developments (including open content licesnsing - see www.creativecommons.org) that will change current models of textbook development and distribution forever.

      It's just a matter of time before public educational institutions at the K-12 and university level (in addition to many private educational institutions)procure all or most of their curriculum materials this way.

      American public educational institutions spend several billions of tax dollars per year for textbooks - required by every public school, most private schools, many home schools, and public universities.

      Added to this cost is the fact that university and K-12 textbooks have risen at three times the rate of inflation since 1992. In California alone, the annual cost for K-12 textbooks is more than $400M per year.

      The textbook industry began its climb to prominence in the 1950's and 60's's, as Baby Boomers entered private and public educational institutions in unpecedented numbers. There was a real need for mass produced educational materials, and commercial textbook publishers filled the demand.

      As enrollment in educational institutions continued to increase, commercial educational publishers gradually became the default suppliers of text-based educational materials.

      Realizing that they had a near monopoly on the educational publishing market, commercial publishers began to raise prices and force "new editions" of classic textbooks into the market to compell new purchases, and defeat the used textbook market. As a result, textbook prices have risen precipitously; it's not unusual for a high school textbook to approach $100, or more. It's often the case that college textbooks exceed that amount.

      Continued dependence on commercial publishers for basic textbooks has led to a "fox is living in the henhouse" situation. As a result, massive diseconomies and inefficiencies have been introduced to the academic textbook market.

      We now live in a time where most consumers can walk into their neighborhood bookstore and purchase a 10th-grade level book on Euclidean Geometry for $10-15. Yet, the same curriculum material, embellished for a 10th-grade school district, can cast upwards of $100, often in addition to the purchase of required ancillary materials (teacher's guides, study guides, lab tapes, etc.).

      The above example is repeated in many classical mathematical - and other - disciplines at the university level.

      Until recently, short of requiring every teacher (or school district) to write its own textbooks, nothing could be done about this costly situation.

      With the advent of new Internet technologies and intellectual property licensing innovations it is now possible to create free, high-quality, distributed banks of educational content. This content can published and distributed for far less than similar materials provided by commercial publishers.

      Here is a listing of some well-known open source educational projects

      Some new current open source content projects are as follows:

      California Open Source Textbook Project (COSTP)(conducting pilot projects)
      http://www.opensourcetext.org

      Wikipedia World History Project (a beginning K-12 pilot inspired by COSTP and based on strict California State surriculum standards)
      http://wikibooks.org/wiki/World_Histor y_Project

      MIT's OpenCourseWare project (a university-based open curriculum project)
      http://ocw.mit.edu/index.html

      There is a burgeoning movement to create "open source" educational content banks, from which insitutional (even individual) users can select - and publish - content about virtually *any* educational topic. These content resevoirs will be constructed to meet the most demanding curriculum frameworks, at all levels of curriculum instruction.

      The open educational content movement makes sense because the bulk of formal educational content - i.e. the content that is delivered to student by educational ins

    14. Re:posting textbooks by mrseigen · · Score: 1

      Authors generally don't make much money off of textbooks anyway, it's more about name recognition and being a productive member of academia.

      You'd think for the price more people would be profiting than the publisher; obviously this is a better idea. At least the author could make some money off of PayPal-whoring or banner ads or something.

    15. Re:posting textbooks by jadavis · · Score: 1

      What confuses me is this:

      A monopoly only really works when the monopolist is much larger than the consumer. But if the consumer is the University of California (or it's students) it seems logical that the monopoly (or in the case of the publishing industry, oligopoly) wouldn't have power. But they do.

      The UC could just hire its own authors and save a lot of money, and even give away the material for free. It seems dumb to keep buying from publishers.

      --
      Social scientists are inspired by theories; scientists are humbled by facts.
    16. Re:posting textbooks by H*(BZ_2)-Module · · Score: 2, Informative

      bcrowell provided one counter example above. Another is Allen Hatcher's Algebraic Topology textbook which is used in many classes. It is available both online and in print form. Hatcher has a few other books in progress available as well. Robert Ash has an introductory abstract algebra book available online, along with a couple books on other subjects. I don't know anyone who has used Ash's book but google reveals that it has been used by at least one class. I could go on, but my point is that use of online texts in classes and publishing work in progress online is becoming more and more widespread within mathematics. I have not seen this so much in disciplines other than mathematics, but I am not very close to the other academic communities.

    17. Re:posting textbooks by 4of12 · · Score: 1

      if you're intrested in mathematical analysis but you aren't prepared to spend an entire years budget on those nice yellow Springer books

      ...then you definitely owe it to yourself to check out Dover books.

      They buy up and republish as paperbacks some classic old textbooks such as

      • Hydrodynamics, Lamb
      • Principles of Statistical Mechanics, Tolman
      • Ordinary Differential Equations, Ince
      • Theory of Brownian Movement, Einstein
      • Radiative Transfer, Chandrasekhar
      for bargain prices, typically about US$10.

      The only problem is that there are still a few fantastic great old books out there that would really benefit the community if they were re-published as inexpensive paperbacks, but the owners of the copyrights for these out-of-print classics and would-be republishers cannot seem to get together...

      --
      "Provided by the management for your protection."
  3. Great idea, let's expand it. by agent+dero · · Score: 1

    I think it'd be something nice to put a LOT more of college textbooks online, maybe just provide it as a free service to a university's students or something

    It cost almost $600 last time I bought books, anything is still something,

    --
    Error 407 - No creative sig found
    1. Re:Great idea, let's expand it. by Osty · · Score: 3, Insightful

      provide it as a free service to a university's students ... It cost almost $600 last time I bought books

      You do realize that you'd just be transfering the cost, right? "Free" means "included in your tuition", which means rather than paying $600 for your books at a book store, you're paying $600 more in tuition and get your books for free. Sure, some amortization is possible, but is it really fair for a student whose major typically requires $200 in books to subsidize a major that requires $600 in books? I'd rather see textbook costs drop to a realistic level ($90+ for a single book is ridiculous, but it's the way things are going), rather than provide it "for free" in your tuition.


      Then again, I'm no longer in school, so it won't affect me unless I have kids at some point in the (very very far) future.

    2. Re:Great idea, let's expand it. by rokzy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I've heard people talk of these ridiculously high costs for books in the US before. in my experience it isn't true here in the UK: to me an expensive book is above 30, and a book above 40 has no chance. also I've bought ~6 books over my 4 year degree, mostly because I wanted to, you are never required to buy a book.

      in my courses (physics) the point of lectures is to obtain a set of notes good enough to work completely on their own in most cases. questions and answers are also provided by lecturers.

      without wanting to sound like a flame or anything, is it possible that in the US lecturers just can't be bothered or aren't given the resources to teach their pupils properly and so fall back on textbooks which the money-grabbing publishers are happy to exploit (I've heard tales of unnecessary book-CD bundles etc. all just to inflate prices).

    3. Re:Great idea, let's expand it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      UK higher education is subsidized. You pay less in tuition but your taxes are astronomically higher. I'd rather have the lower taxes. They also have price controls on textbooks, which is why the textbook burden gets shifted to us. In any case, I don't think there's much of a diff. between UK and US lecturers--sometimes you just *need* the text (i.e. for problems, diagrams, etc.)

    4. Re:Great idea, let's expand it. by rokzy · · Score: 1

      like I said problems are supplied by the lecturer (better since it's more relevant to the actual course and exam) and so are copies of diagrams etc.

      understanding copyright law is your friend - you are allowed to copy a certain amounts of textbook for private study etc.

    5. Re:Great idea, let's expand it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great Idea, and sales won't really be impacted much. If anything, authors names, and the booklists it gets added to will grow. Smart move.

      NOT FREE.
      Downloading, Disk Storage, or printing and binding/ even photocopying costs $$$.

      For whatever reason, I prefer to buy books, A4 is not a good format for skimming.

    6. Re:Great idea, let's expand it. by gnu-generation-one · · Score: 3, Interesting
      "I've heard tales of unnecessary book-CD bundles etc. all just to inflate prices"

      "As stupid as I found the idea of printing a book about Web publishing, the idea of stuffing a CD-ROM in the back seemed to belong to a whole new category of stupidity. Macmillan initially wanted a CD-ROM, on the grounds that readers think such books have more value. I said that if we couldn't get some complete RDBMS packages for the CD-ROM then there was no point in having it (and in fact as my book came out Oracle decided to make all of its software available for download on the Web so there would not have been any point even if we could have gotten a full Oracle for the disk).

      I asked Macmillan to put in the standard CD-ROM pocket but fill it with a black cardboard disk, said disk to be printed with the URL for the book's virtual CD-ROM (http://demo.webho.com). Macmillan said that would be more expensive than a real disk so we ended up printing the inside back cover with a nice "no CD" symbol underneath which ran my text:

      Would you really want to take Web publishing advice from someone who had to burn a CD-ROM to distribute his software? Come to http://demo.webho.com for electronic versions of the source code examples in this book, for live demos of the software in use, and for the packaged source code to larger systems. IMHO, this URL is better than a CD-ROM. You can't lose it. You can't scratch it. You can't leave it in your office when you need it at home. You can give it to your friends and still keep it for yourself.

      People laugh when they read this so I think it worked."


      Philip Greenspun, writing about his book Philip and Alex's Guide to Web Publishing
    7. Re:Great idea, let's expand it. by DrFalkyn · · Score: 1

      No it means that some professors in the U.S. are unscrupulous and write their own texts in order to make money, then force the students to buy a new edition every year. The ones that don't write their own are probably getting kickbacks from the publishers, or possibily on the departmental/university level.

    8. Re:Great idea, let's expand it. by Bob+Zer+Fish · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I dunno, I use a library myself! ;)

    9. Re:Great idea, let's expand it. by Bob+Zer+Fish · · Score: 1

      They also have price controls on textbooks, which is why the textbook burden gets shifted to us. NO, we really don't. 30 is around $50. We have to pay the costs for the US publishers to publish in this country or publish in the US and ship them over. Imho, you really need the texts if you want to get a good grade, but that's just my uni.

    10. Re:Great idea, let's expand it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      You say there are "price controls on text books" in the UK.
      Where did you get this idea? From a cereal box? There are
      no price controls in the UK. I know that doesn't fit the lower
      taxes blah blah agenda you were pushing, but it's a fact.

    11. Re:Great idea, let's expand it. by DarkVader · · Score: 1

      Actually, it appears that UK taxes are about the same as US taxes, for the average wage earner. The number (found on google) is 29.7% for the UK, 30% for the US.

    12. Re:Great idea, let's expand it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative
      Bzzt. Wrong. Yes, education is subsidized, but UK taxes are on a relatively comparable level to most US states for everyone except the richest few percent of the population (if you make more than about $200,000 you're likely to pay noticeably less in the US than here). Once you factor in a minimum level of health insurance needed to get equivalent coverage as what the government provide here, you're likely to pay as much or MORE in the US than here.

      I earn 60.000 UKP a year (about 105.000 USD). Way over the average, and hence pay significantly more taxes than the average person in the UK.

      My tax rate PLUS national health insurance ends up at 32%. Note that you don't really need extra health insurance in the UK, as the NHS (the government operated National Health Service) is actually good enough.

      Despite that my employer does cover an additional health insurance, but if I'd pay that myself, it would have been only 200 UKP a year for me AND my wife, as most health insurance in the UK only covers specialist treatment and treatments where the NHS queues are "too long" (that is, if I need an operation and can't get it immediately through the NHS, I can go get it done at a private hospital).

      Now, lets look at federal income tax in the US for my income level (note: numbers from 2001, I couldn't bother spending much time on this):

      Base tax: $13,708 + 30% of amount over $63,550. Which adds up to $13,708 + $12435 = $26143. 24.9%.

      However, 32% was inclusive of health insurance, and the only additional amount is a council (county) tax equivalent to property/land tax (it is based on the value of your property.

      If I add that to my UK tax amount, I'm up to 34.5%, all inclusive, with sufficient health insurance.

      Now, for most US states, with an income like mine, I'd be paying between 4% and 8% state income tax.

      That brings my US taxes up to 28.9% - 32.9%.

      US county and property taxes wary wildly, but it would not be unusual for it to end up at 2-3% of income, as plenty of counties have property taxes in the 2-3% of assessed property value, and given that market property value is often 2-3 times salary or more, it wouldn't take much for assessed property value to be that high. I'm not even including other county taxes that are baked into the UK council tax (which I added to the UK number of 34.5%).

      Let's say the likely range for property and county taxes is 1%-4% of gross income. This brings my likely US tax up to 29.9% - 36.9%. The high end is already above my UK tax, and my UK tax includes full health insurance

      How is that for "astronomically higher"?

    13. Re:Great idea, let's expand it. by DarkVader · · Score: 1

      and that site is now down, it resolves to www.seeq.com.

    14. Re:Great idea, let's expand it. by M.+Baranczak · · Score: 1

      Except the parent post wasn't talking about giving away free textbooks, but about publishing those books on-line. By cutting out the middleman, you could probably save some serious money.

    15. Re:Great idea, let's expand it. by u38cg · · Score: 1

      Not quite; in the US, you are expected to have a pretty sound grasp of a course's content before you start actual classes. This more or less necessitates a textbook. This system doesn't work in the UK, because we're far too lazy to do work before we really have to. But it does work well, from an educational standpoint; I had an American lecturer for one course at Uni, and he had us do this, and it made a huge huge difference to our understanding and ability at the end of it.

      --
      [FUCK BETA]
    16. Re:Great idea, let's expand it. by nomadic · · Score: 1

      If you're talking in pounds, then it's about the same price.

      US lecturers just can't be bothered or aren't given the resources to teach their pupils properly

      Hmm, we still are getting hordes of students from every country in the world, including yours, so I guess we're doing something right...

    17. Re:Great idea, let's expand it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Timothy is an idiot. Textbooks written by MIT professors have been released free on the internet before. In fact, one of the most famous introductory CS texts has been freely available for as long as I can remember. http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/

    18. Re:Great idea, let's expand it. by bigdavex · · Score: 1

      in my courses (physics) the point of lectures is to obtain a set of notes good enough to work completely on their own in most cases.

      So, if that's the point of the lecture, it would work just as well if your buddy took the notes and gave them to you, right? How about if your buddy bound the notes for you? How about if somebody else did this for you and called it a "book"?


      I'm sure lots of people had different educational experiences than mine. I purposefully went to college with relatively small classes because (to me) the only value to a lecture over a book is the interchange between the professor and the student, both the answering and asking of questions. Truth is I skipped (or slept through) those few big lectures. They were just less efficient ways of acquiring information.

      --
      -Dave
    19. Re:Great idea, let's expand it. by rokzy · · Score: 1

      actually the number of foreign students to the US has dropped hugely recently due to excessively difficult visa apllications

    20. Re:Great idea, let's expand it. by rokzy · · Score: 1

      >How about if somebody else did this for you and called it a "book"?

      possible for some courses but not others where we are learning stuff that won't be published in a good text book until next year.

    21. Re:Great idea, let's expand it. by tschild · · Score: 1

      IMHO, this URL is better than a CD-ROM. You can't lose it. You can't scratch it. You can't leave it in your office when you need it at home. You can give it to your friends and still keep it for yourself.

      On the other hand a CD-ROM does not become useless when the publisher forgets to renew a domain registration (as in this case).

    22. Re:Great idea, let's expand it. by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      How is that for "astronomically higher"?

      Don't forget the 17% VAT (compare with 4-8% sales tax). States that have higher income tax have lower sales tax (on average), so the US version has already been figured into your calculations.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    23. Re:Great idea, let's expand it. by servognome · · Score: 1

      without wanting to sound like a flame or anything, is it possible that in the US lecturers just can't be bothered or aren't given the resources to teach their pupils properly and so fall back on textbooks which the money-grabbing publishers are happy to exploit (I've heard tales of unnecessary book-CD bundles etc. all just to inflate prices).
      I don't think its the professors not teaching, as much as its the students want an extra offline resource. The professors then suggest a text to compliment their class, but rarely use it. In college I rarely had a class where I needed to purchase the suggested book, my class notes were sufficient. There were books that i purchased as references (corrosion, analytical techniques, heat transport) which I still use years later in my job.

      --
      D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
    24. Re:Great idea, let's expand it. by HeyLaughingBoy · · Score: 1
      the point of lectures is to obtain a set of notes good enough to work completely on their own in most cases

      That's surprising. I can't think of many courses I took where there was remotely enough information given in class to learn the material thoroughly. Especially not physics. There was simply too much information for a 1 hour class period. Class was basically where you went to understand the trickier aspects of the text or to learn what the professor thought was important.
      I'd have to assume that your profs either spit out a huge amount of info without stopping to answer questions, or your class times were longer.
    25. Re:Great idea, let's expand it. by 1iar_parad0x · · Score: 1

      Where you a physics major? Introductory courses tend to be that way. Engineering courses are by the book, because engineering is by the book. This isn't an insult to engineering; it's just that your average engineer isn't going to ask for any great reasoning about relativistic correction. Instead, engineers are concerned about the process of putting things together to make them work. You'll find that in more focused upper-division and graduate course work (engineering or the sciences); books become less mandatory, especially if the professor is a researcher in the field.

      --
      What do you mean my sig is repetitive? What do you mean my sig is repetitive? What do you mean....
    26. Re:Great idea, let's expand it. by nomadic · · Score: 1

      But not, it seems, do to any perceived lack of quality on the part of US undergraduate and graduate education.

    27. Re:Great idea, let's expand it. by HeyLaughingBoy · · Score: 1

      No, I'm an engineer. What you said did cross my mind before I posted, but even then I couldn't see it working except for research students where depth might have been more important than breadth.

  4. I know "heat transfer" sounds dull... by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1

    ...but engineers laugh at us for reading O'Reilly's books.

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    1. Re:I know "heat transfer" sounds dull... by Mengoxon · · Score: 1

      This is asking for an "off-topic" mod:

      But, the first time I saw Krusty I always thought that it is really Homer's secret second life which nobody knows about. I was really thinking that in a future episode all of this would be revealed. But after seeing Krusty and Homer several times together, I gave up on that.

    2. Re:I know "heat transfer" sounds dull... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There was a recent episode of the Simpsons in which Krusty opened a clown school in order to raise money. Homer attended, graduated, and actually spent the episode working around Springfield as a Krusty clone; I won't spoil the ending if you haven't seen it except to say that it involves Homer and Krusty performing together in costume.

    3. Re:I know "heat transfer" sounds dull... by M.+Baranczak · · Score: 1

      Matt G said in a radio interview that in a very early incarnation of The Simpsons, Crusty was supposed to be Homer's fun-loving alter ego. The joke being that Bart idolizes Crusty, but hates his father. That whole angle was eventually abandoned in the final drafts, but the two characters still wound up looking very similar.

  5. Good Idea by SeXy_Red · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is a very good idea; it would be nice not to have to pay $500+ a semester for books. I am concerned that if this catches on, that a company would find a way to profit from the online books, bringing the college students back into the same situation that they're currently in, which is paying out the ass for basicly renting books for a semester (assuming the college has a book buy back program).

    Another thing, will schools then start supplying laptops or tablet PC's to view these text books on while in class?

    --

    This sig was generated by a barrel of trained kittens for SeXy_Red (550409).

    1. Re:Good Idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it moves to a subscription model with no distribution rights, then there will be no secondary market either.

    2. Re:Good Idea by csirac · · Score: 1

      it would be nice not to have to pay $500+ a semester for books.

      What are you studying? Surely you don't need to buy them all!

      I've only really had two subjects (in 4th year EE now) that depended on me having the text book (to the extent that, if I didn't have it, it would be detrimental to my grades... not that I get good grades anyway ;-)

      I know different degrees differ, but perhaps you are in first year and bought all the books your subjects listed? I did that too..

      With an average of 5 subjects per semester, I buy about 1-2 books, after I've decided which subject would benefit the most. Example topics (for me): Control Systems Theory, Communication Systems and Circuits, Semiconductor Devices, and of course the Mary L Boas maths text (forget the title, but very useful over years 1 & 2).

      These books cover difficult (for me anyway) concepts and I can imagine that I will find them useful in the future. On the other hand, I have about 4 texts I bought in first year that I've opened less than 5 times each. They provide no real value over the lecture notes, and are so basic that they are barely useful in first year, let alone beyond.

      Admittedly, sometimes it would be nice to just have the damn book. Once, after failing to learn properly from the lecture notes (I don't go to lectures) and quick web searches, I had to head to the library and go through a few different books I found myself. It was a certain topic in Transmission Line theory (microwave amplifier design using PCB microstrips for impedance matching/freq. response).

      Another thing, will schools then start supplying laptops or tablet PC's to view these text books on while in class?

      God I hope not; our lab equipment needs refreshing along with more (competent) demonstrators/tutors before we start splurging on what I think would be a very low bang for buck investment...

    3. Re:Good Idea by cynyr · · Score: 2, Informative

      My school Northern Michigan University already does. I was provided with a not quite stock IBM R40... At acost of something around $300USD a semester. I get the laptop for 4 semesters and 1 summer, and free repair(as long as it looks like normal use) and "tech support"(usually just being told that you have to back everything up and reimage). At the end of my lease I may purchase the laptop. Everything is works under Suse 9 pro. Not sure if the modem is supported elsewhere. I have no use for the modem.

      --
      All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
  6. Assuming some honesty... by Denyer · · Score: 4, Interesting
    ...on the part of people who complete the download form, this is also an opportunity for authors to gain feedback from parts of the readership demographic they wouldn't normally be in contact with.

    With some engineering and science -related courses suffering from low levels of interest, a wider availability of resources could (as the article suggests) draw out those who aren't applying for financial reasons, whilst giving others a taste of subjects and their potential uses in picking a career path and making a difference. After all, most people have felt they've had a good idea or two at some time or other... many have been discouraged only by the lack of readily available background knowledge.

    Yay for more open learning!

    --
    Ph-nglui mglw'nafh Gates M'dna wgah'nagl fhtagn.
  7. beneficial in more ways than one by acceber · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Two potential benefits should accrue from doing this. First, in electronic format, textbooks can be continually corrected and updated, without the delays inherent in printed books. Second, free textbooks hold the potential for fundamentally altering the economics of higher education, particularly in those environments where money is scarce.
    It would also eliminate the need to carry around excessively heavy textbooks which often lead to back pain and other detrimental health issues.

    Schools and other educational institutions would probably welcome this as well as it saves storage space, and most importantly, financial resources which can be used in other areas where the money would be of better use such as upgrading technology which is a critical factor. There is nothing worse than having equipment and resources which are outdated and obsolete.

    1. Re:beneficial in more ways than one by timealterer · · Score: 3, Interesting

      While not having to carry around textbooks is nice, and I'm never without a Palm or laptop, I have to admit I always prefer reading printed text. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I just find printed text I can write on, fold, flip through, read in the sun, etc. to be a lot easier to read from.

      --
      - Allen Pike
      Altering time, one time at a time.
    2. Re:beneficial in more ways than one by gears5665 · · Score: 1

      ok...then print and bind your own book from the webpages and still save 120$/text.

    3. Re:beneficial in more ways than one by stephanruby · · Score: 1
      I agree that ebooks will never completely displace textbooks, but in any case here is a really cool suggestion for taking notes on your laptop and have them overlayed within your ebook.

      http://radio.weblogs.com/0104634/2003/07/31.html#a 2071

    4. Re:beneficial in more ways than one by DarkVader · · Score: 1

      I've found that the opposite is true for me these days. My handwriting is illegible, even to me, so that has no advantage. I don't really like folding books, as it damages them, and attempting to read something printed on paper that is anywhere near white in direct sunlight is painful.

      So I find the computer screen much better for reading most things, especially when you throw in the ability to search that the computer gives you.

      Once upon a time, I preferred books for computer-related reference material, but with as many computers as I have handy these days, it's easier to just read it on another screen.

    5. Re:beneficial in more ways than one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      The need to carry around excessively heavy textbooks is one of the rare forms of physical excercise that many of us CS students get. IMHO, this excercise may be, contrary to intuition, more vital to us than many of us realize.

      Maybe to compensate for the lack of that excercise, it would be good if someone invented a way to associate a physical challenge/cost to each download of an electronic textbook. I'm thinking about something like an excercise bicycle that would have a built-in private key pair and that would produce unique, signed tokens at each revolution of the pedals. These tokens would then be required and consumed by the site providing the textbooks for download, in an amount respective to the size of the download in pages or kilobytes. Of course, the manufacturer of the bike would have to submit the public key of the bike to the publisher of the electronic textbooks.

    6. Re:beneficial in more ways than one by Mad+Marlin · · Score: 2, Funny
      It would also eliminate the need to carry around excessively heavy textbooks which often lead to back pain and other detrimental health issues.

      Unless one of your courses requires you to carry around the entire Encyclopedia Britainnica, you really need to start working out.

    7. Re:beneficial in more ways than one by acceber · · Score: 1
      Unless one of your courses requires you to carry around the entire Encyclopedia Britainnica, you really need to start working out.

      I'm a high school student, so I have five different subjects to cater for. Each one requires at least one textbook, two for Maths plus all my notebooks for each subject. Considering that each textbook weighs an average of 3-4 lbs that's 18-24 lbs just on textbooks alone...according to this article no student should carry more than 15 lbs so it's affecting a significant number of students.

      Also, as a female, it's quite possible that we are more disadvantaged as our upper bodies have to carry a larger proportion in mass than men do, generally speaking. : )

    8. Re:beneficial in more ways than one by Mad+Marlin · · Score: 1
      I'm a high school student, so I have five different subjects to cater for.

      If it's a public school, maybe they are trying to make up for the lack of spending on physical education.

      Considering that each textbook weighs an average of 3-4 lbs that's 18-24 lbs just on textbooks alone...according to this article no student should carry more than 15 lbs so it's affecting a significant number of students.

      When I used to hike a lot, my pack was around 50 lbs. Multi-day hikes either teach you how to do without, or develop a strong back; I chose the latter.

      Also, as a female, it's quite possible that we are more disadvantaged as our upper bodies have to carry a larger proportion in mass than men do, generally speaking. : )

      [insert random male-slashdot-reader-so-fat-he-has-tits joke here]

      Seriously though, don't you get enough time to stop by your locker between classes? Then you only need to carry one book at a time. Either that, or convince some young gentleman to carry your books for you. One of them would probably be willing to do so.

    9. Re:beneficial in more ways than one by ACPosterChild · · Score: 1

      50 lbs for 3 days once a month is not the same as 25 lbs 5 days a week for 3/4 of the year.

      When I was in highschool, the time between class changes was so short that the only time I could go to my locker was when I got to school, at lunch, and after school (barely, before the busses left). That left me carrying 3-4 books, about 6-8 inches high and weighing 15 pounds and held under one arm (I think there was some stupid rule about not using backpacks or something, because nobody did). Sure, I managed, but it sucked ass.

      In any case, if medical science has determined that it's not safe for kids that age to carry that much load, then that's it. A 14 year old baseball pitcher can't "decide" to get stronger arm bones so that he doesn't screw up his arm throwing a curve ball; it's simply not safe.

  8. When can we start by beachplum · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Free textbooks online? The ability to continually update and correct errors and misinformation? Sign me up.

    Also, one of the big issues in textbook publication is that the information included sometimes can be determined by what state publishes the text - this is especially true in history and biology, both of which are full of political dynamite.

    Maybe eventually this will lead to a freer exchange of information.

    1. Re:When can we start by Kafka_Canada · · Score: 2, Informative

      Check out Wikibooks.

      (Keeping it short cuz I posted about it in a new thread).

      --
      Fuck it
    2. Re:When can we start by BWJones · · Score: 1

      Free textbooks online? The ability to continually update and correct errors and misinformation? Sign me up.

      We have taken this approach with possibly the earliest (to my knowledge) online textbook available. This site is an online textbook of retinal biology and anatomy compiled by a number of folks. Please forgive the old-school design (early 90's web look, feel and code but that was when it went online) as I am redesigning it in my not so spare time and hope to start wrapping in genetics, molecular biology etc... in the near future.

      Other cool facts: Despite the admittedly narrow focus of retinal cell biology, this site does garner upwards of 45,000 hits/day and is running on an old G3 iMac. (one of the best $600 I ever spent).

      --
      Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
  9. Well... by zeruch · · Score: 1

    ...at least they have let their motives and approach be known in a transparanet fashion. More power to them. Certainly there are trade-offs in doing this, but depending on what you are seeking to achieve (read: a profit-motive, a vetting/review motive, an exposure motive related to vanity rather than review, etc) you could gain quite a bit from this.

  10. Here are some more free books by kunudo · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here (introductory physics.)

    1. Re:Here are some more free books by rampant_gerbil · · Score: 2, Informative

      And if you're interested in topology, Hatcher has some very high quality introductory texts available for free. They aren't all finished yet, but the first is being used for the introductory graduate courses at Wisconsin.

      --
      the carnation in my buttonhole / precedes me like a small / continuous explosion. -RS
    2. Re:Here are some more free books by bcrowell · · Score: 1

      I'd be grateful if you could write a short review on The Assayer.

  11. Noble Effort by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As a college student, I can certainly appreciate the benefits of free textbooks, lord knows the bookstore overcharged by several limbs. The question is not whether or not this would benefits students and the community at large, but instead one of costs versus benefits.

    Writing a textbook is no small endeavor, professors often spend months upon months writing and revising a single text. While the Open Source community can survive off the valiant efforts of thousands of coders worldwide, the number of individuals in higher academia qualified to write textbooks is much more limited.

    I just can't envision a scenario where this kind of approach is sustainable in a long-term or wide-reaching context. Thoughts?

    -- Frag00

    1. Re:Noble Effort by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A lot of professors, or at least the one's I've worked for editing and proofing their text books, do not get a lot of money for their work. He said, maybe $10,000.

      Its more for recognition, since that is the real currency of professors, and with it higher pay from the university.

    2. Re:Noble Effort by peragrin · · Score: 1

      There are many more professors than you are giving credit for. If they are working for a University, They can update it bit by bit.

      What would be nice though is an oversite body. Each college pays a small amount $100,000 per school?? For unlimited access and all access is granted inside the college system. The The colleges can raise that money by making each student pay $5 or so.

      Or better yet have each College collect $5-$10 from each student and that money goes to the oversite board, that makes sure the books are updated, and not biased to location.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    3. Re:Noble Effort by stephanruby · · Score: 2, Informative
      Writing a textbook is no small endeavor, professors often spend months upon months writing and revising a single text.

      According to this Professor:"A typical [College] textbook earns the author less than $3,000 over a five-year or longer period." That's not a lot of money we're talking about. It could be funded in a number of different ways. We could have featured sponsors, student micropaiments, and paypal donations.

      While the Open Source community can survive off the valiant efforts of thousands of coders worldwide, the number of individuals in higher academia qualified to write textbooks is much more limited.

      Yes, but we don't need that many books in the first place. If the authors adopt the open source model and allow others to contribute to or take what they need from their work, then the same book won't have to be rewritten from scratch by a thousand different authors.

      I just can't envision a scenario where this kind of approach is sustainable in a long-term or wide-reaching context. Thoughts?

      This approach is sustainable. It won't replace dead-tree college textbooks, that's for sure, but at least it will be a viable alternative for some students and some poorer countries.

    4. Re:Noble Effort by azaris · · Score: 1

      Yes, but we don't need that many books in the first place. If the authors adopt the open source model and allow others to contribute to or take what they need from their work, then the same book won't have to be rewritten from scratch by a thousand different authors.

      Yeah, just like open source software removes the necessity of many teams writing the same type of software over and over again.

      Seriously, different authors often try different pedagogical approaches to writing books. Or maybe they liked some book that's no longer available and now write their own in similar style. Maybe they're in it for the money. The problem is not really the multitude of different textbooks (after all supply should lower the overall prices) but the bloatedness and uselessness of the average textbook.

      I'd bet the average college freshman would balk at a 100-page real analysis textbook that has nothing but theorem/proof/corollary after another. So instead they get a 1000-page calculus bible with color pictures, useless thought experiments and a $100 pricetag. Publishers simply offer what they think the schools want.

    5. Re:Noble Effort by rsheridan6 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      My dad was a professor, and he wrote a few textbooks. The writer doesn't make much money off of them unless it's something like a popular Econ 101 textbook which will sell lots of copies. More specialized books for higher level courses (like this heat transfer book) don't sell many copies, and if you're in it for the money you'd be better off mowing lawns than writing one. Professors do get recognition, better raises, etc. for publishing a textbook and that's probably more of an incentive.

      The editors and the publishing company are in it for the money, though. I don't know how important they really are, and how much of a substitute direct contact with the readers is for them. We'll see.

      --
      Don't drop the soap, Tommy!
    6. Re:Noble Effort by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The editors play an important role, and losing their involvement would reduce the overall quality.

      The publishers, on the other hand do not provide the typical services that justify their share of the profit; promotion of the books is non-existant. When distribution is all they are left with, where do they add value?

      My biggest gripes with the hard-copy texts is that (a) they cost so much you have an incentive to sell them at the end of the class, and (b) they are so darn heavy that every time you move you have to consider if you really want to keep them.

      I think it would be great if a school would publish a DVD with all required texts for a "reasonable" price of $100. It can still help fund the writing efforts to a small degree, and give something tangible to students (and alums if they really made something good!).

    7. Re:Noble Effort by stephanruby · · Score: 1
      The editors play an important role, and losing their involvement would reduce the overall quality.

      It will decrease the quality, yes, but it will also increase the quantity of books available to any one person and so the best of the best ebooks will easily spread like wild fire.

  12. Incentive by timealterer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Here's something to ponder. Why does somebody write a textbook? Is it because they enjoy the subject matter, enjoy writing, and want to write an engaging, accurate book? Or is it because one can charge large sums for such a textbook? Unfortunately it's often the latter.

    While the idea of an epic "Commercial vs. Open" textbook rivalry akin to that seen in software is romantic, writing a textbook tends to be somewhat less pleasant, less rewarding, more expensive, and more exacting than writing software. I'd hate to think the foremost experts in fields may be discouraged from writing one day because they can't compete with free, mediocre sources.

    --
    - Allen Pike
    Altering time, one time at a time.
    1. Re:Incentive by BlightThePower · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Why does someone write a textbook?
      Well its certainly not for the money. The typical textbook brings in negligable sums at best. Typically about 2000 GBP as far as I can tell. The general reason is because you require a book for your students that doesn't exist. And if you have the course notes you've written to hand then its more or less there as a by-product. A bit of polishing and you are away.

      Sorry, I know this sounds a little disappointing, its done for reasons of dull expediency and neither fame nor fortune.

      For graduate level texts/"professional" publications the story is of course rather different, and the reasons for doing it are pretty much the same as writing journal papers; (i) "publish or perish"; (ii) mindshare within your field; (iii) again, the damn book you wish was written for your students (this time grads) doesn't yet exist. Writing a whole book is a little inefficient insofar as its only one line on the CV and indeed, if we look back before the days of "publish or perish" you will note that practically everyone had written a book at some point in their careers. However, this seems to be a declining trend, at least within the sciences where time is perhaps better spent on publishing normal papers or writing grant applications.

      --
      Plays violent online games as: Nerfherder76
    2. Re:Incentive by Spy+Hunter · · Score: 2, Informative
      On the contrary, I think open textbooks could be the best thing to happen to education in quite a while. When you're taking a class, the textbook is almost never the only source of information the teacher uses, and you rarely go through the book in order from chapter 1 to the end. Every teacher thinks they can do better than the textbook author, and they all add supplements and additions that often contain good ideas, but are never seen outside of their own classrooms. With an open textbook approach, every teacher would be free to mix and match lessons from any source and put them together in any order they wanted. The "open textbook" need not be one single book, but could be a collection of pieces. Popular collections of pieces could be printed in bulk like normal textbooks, or teachers could print their own custom textbooks at Kinko's or whatever. All their new ideas and improvements could be submitted back to the open textbook repository for everyone to benefit from. Imagine using a textbook that was built from the combined wisdom of every teacher in the field!

      With this system, nobody would have to write textbooks at all any more. All the material would already be written, but in a constant state of peer review and revision by people who have an interest in making it better. There would be no point in writing a "new" textbook; simply revising the open textbook to suit your needs would be much easier and would result in a better end product since the open textbook would be high quality starting material.

      --
      main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
    3. Re:Incentive by Flyboy+Connor · · Score: 1
      Here's something to ponder. Why does somebody write a textbook? Is it because they enjoy the subject matter, enjoy writing, and want to write an engaging, accurate book? Or is it because one can charge large sums for such a textbook? Unfortunately it's often the latter.

      But remember that investing a year of your life to write a book for free, even if you enjoy writing it, won't put food on the table. Unfortunately scientists can't live from fame alone. I would love to be able to spend my time any way I like, and then write a great book on my specialty, but if I don't get paid to do it, I simply can't do it. It is even worse: I need the money up front, so I need a publisher to give me an advance. And it's the publisher that sets such an outrageous price for books.

    4. Re:Incentive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      But remember that investing a year of your life to write a book for free, even if you enjoy writing it, won't put food on the table. Unfortunately scientists can't live from fame alone.
      Academic textbooks are usually written by professors who make a very decent salary.
    5. Re:Incentive by apache+guevara · · Score: 1

      Lofty as the idea of a constantly evolving online text might be, the academia is one eccentric bunch. Editing the text to add supplementary material and say changing a few heading is fine. But profs use different notations for even quantities as basic as heat in thermodynamics. Anyone spare a thought for the poor TA who manually goes thro the whole book replacing the 'H' Heat with a 'Q'.
      No find and replace tool has been made that can get around that one!

    6. Re:Incentive by Spy+Hunter · · Score: 1

      Those stubborn profs are welcome to use old textbooks, or fork the open textbook. But they might find that the open textbook contains materials that they want to use, and that maintaining their fork is more trouble than it's worth. I would put that as an advantage of the open textbook idea: adoption of standardized notation.

      --
      main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
    7. Re:Incentive by crumley · · Score: 1

      Who uses "H" for heat? I have never seen anything but "Q" for heat? Of course "h" is used for enthalpy.

      --
      Preventive War is like committing suicide for fear of death. - Otto Von Bismarck
    8. Re:Incentive by crumley · · Score: 1

      Yes, professors generally make decent salaries, but books are often written while on sabbatical. Professor often have to come up with other funding to pay their salaries while on sabbatical, and research funding won't always pay for writing a textbook.

      --
      Preventive War is like committing suicide for fear of death. - Otto Von Bismarck
    9. Re:Incentive by bcrowell · · Score: 1
      I don't think you have a very realistic idea of the amounts of money to be made from most textbooks. Unless it's one of the very small minority of books that's extremely lucrative, basically the author makes negligible amounts of money.

      But remember that investing a year of your life to write a book for free, even if you enjoy writing it, won't put food on the table. Unfortunately scientists can't live from fame alone. I would love to be able to spend my time any way I like, and then write a great book on my specialty, but if I don't get paid to do it, I simply can't do it. It is even worse: I need the money up front, so I need a publisher to give me an advance.
      Since textbooks are generally not profitable for their authors, your argument would seem to imply that textbooks don't exist.

      It is even worse: I need the money up front, so I need a publisher to give me an advance.
      AFAIK, advances don't exist in the textbook market. Advances are typically paid to authors in non-academic publishing who have already written books that were unusually profitable.

    10. Re:Incentive by Flyboy+Connor · · Score: 2, Interesting
      This may differ from country to country. I live in Europe. I wrote a textbook once, which netted my department about 20,000 dollars. That money was paid by the publisher (contract-basis, 20,000 even if the book would not sell one single copy), who had some extra funding to release a book on this particular subject matter. The 20,000 did not completely cover my salary, but for several reasons we still decided to do it. We got nothing from the book sales, but that would not have been much anyway.

      Some universities have better funding than others. Those that have good funding may allow their professors to write textbooks. Those that do not, either will have to skip writing textbooks, or have to find extra funding.

      The profits an author gets from writing a textbook are (a) fame, (b) good course material, (c) a chance to be recognised as the top specialist in the field, (d) if very lucky, a bit of money on the side. Unfortunately, where I live an author is never allowed to keep the money for himself; it all has to go to the university. But, for me, if the university does allright, I do allright.

    11. Re:Incentive by Obfiscator · · Score: 1
      Interesting. I've always used "q" for heat or charge, "H" for enthalpy, and "h" for Planck's constant.

      I think the only place I've seen "Q" is for a reaction quotient (equilibrium constant but the system doesn't have to be at equilibrium....can't remember exactly what it's called, but shows up in the Nernst equation in electrochemistry).

      --
      "Nothing shocks me. I'm a scientist." -Indiana Jones
    12. Re:Incentive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why does somebody write a textbook?

      To get babes.

  13. Quality by cperciva · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Free textbooks sounds like a nice idea, but I have to wonder if quality will suffer as a result. There is going to be great pressure from student groups to use free textbooks, even if there are better textbooks available. Since the vast majority of authors can't afford to give away their work for free, this will inevitably reduce the competition between textbooks.

    1. Re:Quality by tootlemonde · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I have to wonder if quality will suffer as a result.

      I would expect free textbooks to improve the quality of both free and non-free ones.

      First, assuming that a qualified author writes a free textbook, there should be a fairly high base quality because the author's reputation among his peers is at stake. Another author of a non-free textbook would then have to write a better book than the free one if he expects to charge for it.

      Second, because the free electronic books are subject to frequent revision, other experts and students can submit criticisms and suggestions that can be instantly incorporated.

      Since the vast majority of authors can't afford to give away their work for free..

      Actually, in the textbook field, they can afford to give their work away because they're paid by a university. One should not underestimate the desire for the esteem of one's peers in any endeavor.

    2. Re:Quality by cperciva · · Score: 1

      Actually, in the textbook field, they can afford to give their work away because they're paid by a university.

      It's not that simple. Time spent writing textbooks is time not spent doing teaching or research. Less teaching means that the university needs to hire someone else; less research means less research grants, which will cause problems at institutions which get a large fraction of their income by deducting "overhead costs" from their professors' research grants.

    3. Re:Quality by mar1boro · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Time spent writing a text, if it is good, increases the writer's reputation.
      A well regarded and published professor is money in the bank for a university.
      A professor who "pens" a text that becomes one of _the_ texts in his field
      can elevate his university's stature tremendously. Imagine if we cut out the
      middleman. A university handles the electronic pulishing duties.
      In your case the text becomes "The cperciva Text." It can be updated
      indefinitely. Continuous peer review. Continuous contributions
      from that university's professors forever.

      I'm not going to propose the details for an entire compensation system.
      It is way too early in the morning for that. I think though, that the lessening
      of text costs would only be one of many benefits. Dynamic texts could change many things.

      --
      -- "It was as if the paint factories had decided to deal direct with the art galleries." - Thursday Next
    4. Re:Quality by bcrowell · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Free textbooks sounds like a nice idea, but I have to wonder if quality will suffer as a result. There is going to be great pressure from student groups to use free textbooks, even if there are better textbooks available.
      Students have zero influence over textbook selection. Teachers pick textbooks based on their own criteria. That's what's goofy about the textbook market: the people who pay for the books aren't the ones who pick them.

    5. Re:Quality by cperciva · · Score: 1

      Students have zero influence over textbook selection. Teachers pick textbooks based on their own criteria.

      How I wish that you were correct. Unfortunately, many institutions are plagued by powerful (and short-sighted) students' unions.

    6. Re:Quality by ACPosterChild · · Score: 1

      Your comment: Free textbooks sounds like a nice idea, but I have to wonder if quality will suffer as a result.

      Your sig: Free binary security updates for FreeBSD [daemonology.net]

      Hmmmmm, and the things that make you go.

  14. More Free eBooks by wehe · · Score: 5, Informative

    I have started to collect a survey of free eBooks, which contains links to free tech eBooks as well as fiction eBooks (and free AudioBooks).

    1. Re:More Free eBooks by bcrowell · · Score: 1

      I run a web site that catalogs free books and accepts user-submitted reviews. The heat transfer book has been in the catalog for a while, and any user-submitted reviews of it would be appreciated!

  15. Education is not only a textbook... by Kulic · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I applaud the authors for their attitude and their willingness to make this textbook available for free download. However, I think that they may be over-estimating the value of a good textbook.

    Let me clarify that last statement - I think that a good textbook is an essential element of a good education on a particular subject, but I do not think that it is the only element required. A well-rounded education should also include hands-on lab time (costs money) and people you can ask to help you and to explain what you are having problems understanding (costs money).

    Now, if this book is aimed at people for whom money is a problem, isn't it naive to think that they have access to a computer (and enough time on that computer to read and understand the text)?

    This book could quite possibly replace existing texts and lower the cost of an education, but I doubt that it would become the entire education. However, I don't think that you can have too many alternative texts on a subject, especially when they are free.

    1. Re:Education is not only a textbook... by J_Omega · · Score: 1

      Depending on the field of study, your point seems insubstantial.

      For example : What about the English major? How much "lab time" are they going to need? Nearly ALL instruction will be either in the class or from reading. Free eBooks could save them a load of cash vs buying all the texts.

      As for out of class assistance, tutoring is optional. For answering questions about the coursework or assignments, etc., that's part of the instructor's job!! As an undergrad (elec eng,) I learned to approach my prof's during their REQUIRED office hours. Not enough students do this, as I found out by TA'ing.

      The value that a book has in a course varies not only per course, but on the instructor as well. I've witnessed instructors who just could NOT teach, and a good textbook was the only thing that got me through a class. I've also been privledged enough to have been taught by a few who give lecture notes that are more informative than the course text!

      Tuition is a fixed fee that you cannot get around. Text books, on the other hand, can vary dramatically. Think $500+ a semester for new texts, $400+ for USED ones. You can usually get some of the cost reimbursed, IF that text version will be used again. Personally, I've kept my old texts as reference material. Having a Chemistry or Calc book lying around, that I'm already familiar with, has saved me time on many occasions. So I've several thousand invested in reference materials now. Some through choice, some because they couldn't be sold back.

      It IS naive to think that because a student can't afford $500 a semester on texts that they'd not be able to "access a computer." One or two semesters of Free texts IS $$ saved for a computer. Not to mention that Universities have COMPUTER LABS, designed for people WITHOUT computers!!

      Sorry for the little rant here, since we do seem to agree that free texts is a GoodThing! =)

    2. Re:Education is not only a textbook... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't call it naive at all...in fact, quite the opposite. Most college students have excessive access to computers, whether it in the labs, in computing centers on campus, or in their own dorm rooms. In fact, when it comes to engineering courses, the homework and projects *require* a computer (in the sense that trying to it with a calculator or by hand is impractical time-wise).

      However, it may be pointed out that many large universities are subscribed to an ebook service already. I know my school has purchased a subscription to netlibrary.com, so while I'm a student I have access to all their books online. I haven't checked for basic engineering texts personally, but given the range of texts I have looked at (from playing the harmonic to programming) I'd guess this meets the needs just as well. The value in the free engineering textbook comes in when (1) the professors base their coursework on the free textbook and (2) non-students have access to quality engineering textbooks both before college and after graduation.

    3. Re:Education is not only a textbook... by navegan · · Score: 1

      >Now, if this book is aimed at people for whom money is a problem, isn't it naive to think that they have access to a computer (and enough time on that computer to read and understand the text)?

      You're assuming that students would have to read the entire textbook on the computer. Those without full-time computer access would undoubtedly print the textbook out, if the format was amenable. Most students (at my university, at least) have access to university computer labs and could print there. Even if there was a fee for printing, the textbook would likely come out cheaper than the formally published version. Also, it would be possible to print only the portions presently needed, which means that the demand for cash would not be so heavily weighted towards the beginning of the term. Redistributing the demand for cash helps those who don't have loads of cash lying around, but who have income during the term, for instance.

      I congratulate professors who make their textbooks available to students for free.

      --
      ----- Vegans don't send SPAM.
    4. Re:Education is not only a textbook... by dankelley · · Score: 1
      I congratulate professors who make their textbooks available to students for free.

      Thanks!

  16. Dedekind library by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    You may be interested by the Dedekind library:
    http://books.pdox.net/

  17. Is there a solutions manual? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    I downloaded the textbook and it looks real good. I wish I could do the problems and know if I got the right answer or not. Wait, no professor on earth would be able to use this textbook then. Damn.

    1. Re:Is there a solutions manual? by Jonathan · · Score: 1

      Yes, that sort of thing is annoying for self-learners. But many textbooks for instance have the answers for the odd numbered problems in the back, which means lazy professors can still use the even numbered ones for homework and the students can still check themselves using the odd numbered ones.

  18. Wikibooks by Kafka_Canada · · Score: 4, Informative

    For those of you who are interested in free (as in speech and beer) textbooks, please check out Wikibooks. It's a Wiki, like the Wikipedia, but wholly devoted to offering free books (primarily textbooks).

    I'm not involved in running Wikibooks, I just use it and contribute to it, and I think it's a great project worth spreading the word about; plus, the more people contribute to it, the better it is.

    --
    Fuck it
    1. Re:Wikibooks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, I think there's a thread up there you didn't post this to yet. Better get cracking.

    2. Re:Wikibooks by robbyjo · · Score: 1

      Sorry but I have to say that at the current state, Wikibooks still sucks. Most part is NOT suitable for teaching in the class. Just take a look at any lessons: science, engineering, languages, etc. Many authors actually don't know what it takes to write a textbook. Most of the contents are just comparable to student notes stiched out altogether.

      Not only that, how many times spammers and other contributors overwrite, nitpick, or even bend the course of the lesson altogether without giving any reasons whatsoever?? I'd rather want to have some degree of control on lessons I initiated. Wikibooks doesn't provide that. Sometimes too much freedom does hurt.

      Don't get me wrong. I too contributed in it at sometime for a while. I'm just getting tired of it. I got some nitpicks on it too. See the main page, it has a selection of languages. Wouldn't it be nice that it should be moved into user preference page and stored into a cookie so that this kind of page should be encountered exactly once in a lifetime?

      I would say that Wiki is great for making public encyclopedia, but not public textbooks. The model simply doesn't work, IMHO.

      --

      --
      Error 500: Internal sig error
    3. Re:Wikibooks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I would say that Wiki is great for making public encyclopedia, but not public textbooks. The model simply doesn't work, IMHO.
      Then stop your itchin and make it bitchin!
      Seriously though, this is just the open source version of books; so are you saying that open source doesn't work?
    4. Re:Wikibooks by Kafka_Canada · · Score: 1

      I definitely agree with you that Wikibooks is very far from readiness for use in the classroom -- that much is clear. But it already contains some books suitable for personal use, and a few that are approaching overall suitability. You make the comparison to Wikipedia to point out that the model might be more appropriate for the latter than for the former, but I think it demonstrates rather the surprising efficacy of the model: do you think very many people gave the idea of a free, user-written encyclopedia any chance of succeeding before Wikipedia really took off? (Of course, one's free to argue that Wikipedia itself still isn't a success).

      "See the main page, it has a selection of languages. Wouldn't it be nice that it should be moved into user preference page and stored into a cookie so that this kind of page should be encountered exactly once in a lifetime?"

      I'd actually totally forgotten about that; there's a much easier solution, simply bookmark the "Main page" (i.e. your language's page, rather than the index with links to the various languages). I haven't seen the index page since I started at Wikibooks.

      Anyway, I see your points and clearly the idea of open-content textbooks isn't for everyone, regardless of whether it's even a functional model. But I do have confidence that it will become usable as its userbase reaches a sizable population, and I hope that at some point you'll give it another try and perhaps go on making contributions to and use of Wikibooks.

      --
      Fuck it
    5. Re:Wikibooks by robbyjo · · Score: 1

      Well, if we draw some analogy to coding, my main complaint is like this: You are building a code in a public CVS where you allow everyone to commit stuff, not just to read from it. In an early stage, it's difficult for everyone to know where the book is heading -- but suddenly some wiseass jumped in pretending to know it and pour some changes all over the board. Of course you can reverse the changes, but as the original author, wouldn't you be frustrated on this? Wikibooks right now is exactly like this.

      The question is not about it's open vs not open or free vs not free. I entirely support the idea and I believe it's good, but the model still needs fixing. I would argue that making textbook is like making a complex code. The starter should be the owner. He/she appoints moderators / commiters and approves changes or patches to their book. If we allow this, then I'll be glad continuing my partly written book. This way, the authors are guaranteed their rights on what to include and how. (Honestly, at the moment, I'd rather compose my textbooks in Sourceforge rather than Wikibooks because it provides stuffs I need. It has permissions, user mailing list, feedback, bug reporting, allowing contributors to join in, etc.)

      Of course there are some dangers associated with my proposed model: There maybe some similar books available for the same subjects. But that also happens in real life (and also in open source -- how many text editors do we have now?). One book addresses slightly different aspects from the others. But that's good too because the user would profit from it: Garnering explanations from different sources / point of views. It would be good for Wikibooks to enable "merger" on two or more textbooks whenever possible.

      --

      --
      Error 500: Internal sig error
  19. More online books? Better for humans? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting
    We should see more books like that, because there might be geniuses who cannot go to universities or afford books. But if they lay their hands on free online books they might change the world.

    For example, Michael Faraday, received very little education. Everything he learned was from books that came to him as a bookbinder. Now lets say, he newer became a bookbinder. What would have happened? Wonderfull mind would not have been used for what it was used.

    Thats a great example, when right people get their hands on books which are in interest of them wonderfull things can happen.

    I hope we will see more online books. Now the education will be available pretty much to everyone who has access to a computer. Not only those who's parents rich, can afford them to send to best colleges in the world.

    Anyone aggree with me? or see my point?

  20. W00T!! by fostware · · Score: 1

    Maybe some overclocker websites can finally pull their heads outta their arses and read a textbook on the subject.
    Somehow my definition of "Humanitarian Aid for online O/C'ers" didn't meet Amazon's requirements for cheap books :(

    --
    "We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run over." - Aneurin Bevan
  21. errors in textbooks, PC by kardar · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I still have on one of my hard drives somewhere a PDF file that points out really horrible errors in typical school textbooks; these were mostly high-school books, but in any case, it really points to the pressures that are placed on book publishers; many pressures that have nothing to do with accuracy of information, but coming from a sense of policital correctedness, and so on. There are influential people in the management levels of the textbook publishers, and there are certain standards that must be upheld in order for that book to be selected by a school system, especially a school system that is funded with taxpayer dollars. Obviously, having checks and balances when it comes to taxpayer dollars is an important thing. But the errors are pretty bad, and there are quite a few of them, at least in the one review there that I read.

    Perhaps the idea of putting this kind of information online, if there is a way that this can be done without too much lost inertia from the fact that you are just giving away your hard work for nothing (i.e. also sell the book in hard-copy), have a donation place for it, or somehow organize funding in some other way. Also, you don't necessarily go through a big publisher to do it this way - you can have more freedom to simply produce an accurate textbook, without having some committee breathing down your neck or having your work thrown in haphazardly with ten other authors' work.

    And there may be more control over the authorship, and the way the whole thing is put together.

    But generally speaking, for instance, O'Reilly books are not that particularly expensive, and I just kind of feel better contributing some type of financial money to the author, and having a hard-copy book has its benefits as well, in case you feel like not being tied down to the computer or laptop screen. I like buying books, but I also like using electronic formats sometimes (it's easier and faster to take notes), it's especially cool when you are studying a programming language and you can see examples in the book and try out your own while you are physically sitting at your computer.

    Electronic formats are good, and hard-copies are good too. What really needs to happen is that the cost of the textbooks, the hardcopy textbooks, need to come down by at least 50%. Again, this can be blamed on the "big publishing companies" - many of the policies and procedures that are commonplace at these types of embedded publishers drive the costs of textbooks up, and increase the number of errors in those textbooks at the same time. Paying some 30 dollars for a very excellent O'Reilly book, for instance, is really no big deal, considering how long it's going to take to read it and work through it, and hopefully the authors are getting some kind of reward in there too. Having an electronic format available for free, especially in the situation where one has purchased the hardcopy, is, I think, a really good idea; especially if that electronic format can have an errata somewhere or something.

    To sum up, I think that the price of textbooks needs to come down, and the errors need to be lesser in number as well. These two things appear to be tied in together, to some extent. Furthermore, there should be a means to reward the authors for their work; I don't think that giving away books for free is really going to encourage people to write quality material; there needs to be some sort of way to integrate the hard copy and the electronic copy in a way that increases the benefits to the reader and still rewards the author and encourages more people to write quality material.

    I think that this is going to turn out to not be quite as easy as it sounds.

    1. Re:errors in textbooks, PC by aynrandfan · · Score: 1
      . . . and having a hard-copy book has its benefits as well, in case you feel like not being tied down to the computer or laptop screen.

      I myself find that I read faster with a physical book than staring at my laptop. My favorite technique is to get a bookmark and focus line by line, reading (for me, at least) fairly fast.

      --

      ----

      "Ours was a free culture. It is becoming much less so."-Lawrence Lessig

    2. Re:errors in textbooks, PC by yason · · Score: 1

      Electronic formats are good, and hard-copies are good too. What really needs to happen is that the cost of the textbooks, the hardcopy textbooks, need to come down by at least 50%.

      Print the PDFs two-sided and put them in binders. Works like a charm and doesn't cost that much, if you have access to a good laser printer.

  22. How About a Review? by Lucidus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is a wonderful initiative, which I think most of us will want to encourage - but to really determine it's value, we need to know how good the book is. Does it match the standards of currently available conventional (i.e. expensive) texts? It would be great to see a review by a highly-qualified engineer or professor.

  23. Brilliant .. but I was wondering ... by The+MESMERIC · · Score: 0

    If anyone knows of more Pure Mathematic books online.
    By the way Thanks for the Dedekind link!
    But when I search the net (or P2P) - I find that most e-books are PDFs and I hate PDF's so much :(
    I know a Maths textbook would be impossible to be done in text and HTMLing one would be way too much effort ...
    but I am seriously averse to PDFs (maybe it's just me?) - finding them somewhat demotivating.
    I never go beyond page 10 - in sharp contrast with HTML or Text which I read cover to cover.

    1. Re:Brilliant .. but I was wondering ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Search around and you should find groups that P2P share ripped textbooks. They keep it quiet because the TBIAA is pretty harsh. Sometimes the files don't match the contents. Last night I downloaded what was labeled as an OS book but it was just pages and pages of "What the Hell do you think you're doing?" I think it must be a philosophy text book instead.

    2. Re:Brilliant .. but I was wondering ... by The+MESMERIC · · Score: 0

      I often download from e-Mule and emulated Kaaza textbooks, but again I just don't like the PDF format. But hey if that is the standard fine.
      What I was hoping for was a site (or ftp address) with HTML books on Pure Maths.
      I mean that is what the internet was really meant for (free info, free academic material) - but we see much way too much emphasis on eBays and pr0n.
      It should be the other way round pure academia (huge online free Library) with the rest being but minor distractions.
      I guess of course, to be fair ... we are what we Bookmark.

  24. Overpriced college texts SUCK! by k4rm4_p0l7c3 · · Score: 1

    First, in electronic format, textbooks can be continually corrected and updated, without the delays inherent in printed books (second and later editions are typically published on a five-year cycle)

    maybe it's a five year cycle for true science texts, but for everything else in the US college system it seems like new editions come out yearly or bi-yearly. Thus negating the usefulness of the return that book you bought at the end of the semester. 'cause they won't want it any more..

    You-know, I thought Gutenberg liberating books with movable type meant freedom of information on some level. Look how we've started to turn back the wheels of progress by making these texts a) artificially overpriced and b) released in such rapid succession youj can't return them to get some of your 'investment' back

    So, kudos to the author(s) for releasing this book in such a way. Maybe the overclockers will learn a trick or two :D

    (just HAD to bitch about the state of college texts. forgive me..)

  25. Why this won't be a likely medium anytime soon.... by digid · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Great ideas that lead to bigger and better things never get there when people are at risk of losing their big paychecks. Some guy is a millionaire because he owns a publishing company that can sell textbooks at $100+ a pop. He's not gonna sit there and watch his annual income go down the toilet. Same thing with the oil, alcohol, medical, computer industry etc...

  26. ...and third! by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

    > First, in electronic format, textbooks can be
    > continually corrected and updated...Second,
    > free textbooks hold the potential for
    > fundamentally altering the economics of higher
    > education... ...and third, hard working people who struggle to pay college tuition, please continue paying outrageous taxes and tuitions to keep me in my 6000 square foot house. We could offset it by diverting profits back into the university, but that would be useful.

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    1. Re:...and third! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It would be nice if Slashdot had an edit button so that when poorly programmed software that is "PLAIN OLD TEXT" chops out carriage returns, you could go in to fix it. But not.

  27. Alternative to buying books. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For the last year I have tried to only study without buying any course related books, only the extra material made for the course. The books that I need to read, I read at university's libraries and I found that it's easier to concentrate on studying when there aren't things to be disturbed of. Also I find it a little ridiculous to buy a huge book of hundreds of pages that usually doesn't have any use after the course. That way I also can find books worth buying that have their uses after the course (like general purpose books about algorithms).

  28. The Engines of Our Ingenuity by Brent+Nordquist · · Score: 3, Informative

    John Lienhard (the U. of Houston one) is the host of "The Engines of Our Ingenuity" radio program. If you haven't heard any of these, get the transcripts or see if the program is on in your area. I've always found them excellent.

    --
    Brent J. Nordquist N0BJN
    1. Re:The Engines of Our Ingenuity by corngrower · · Score: 1

      Or, as i chuckle to myself when i hear the program trailer: The Engines of Our Nudity.

  29. The Academic System by sumo61 · · Score: 5, Informative

    As a new Assistant Professor at a U.S. institution, I am required to perform Teaching, Research, Service, and publish scholarly publications in PEER REVIEWED journals, etc. If this is not done satisfactorily, I will be released within several years. In order for the writing of textbooks to contribute to my retention, the 'system' requires publication through a 'major' commercial publisher in your field of knowledge. This is a major reason, IMHO, that we do not see more offerings like the subject of this article. Most professors are lucky to make 10% profit on their text publishing and my discussions in this matter with the publishing houses reveals their near-future plans to offer electronic texts online...on a chapter-by-chapter basis. This would allow instructors to assemble their own 'custom assembled' texts for courses.

    1. Re:The Academic System by Red_Winestain · · Score: 1
      In order for the writing of textbooks to contribute to my retention, the 'system' requires publication through a 'major' commercial publisher in your field of knowledge.

      I'm not sure what field you are in, but in almost all scientific fields at my major Midwest research institution, textbooks do not count towards promotion and tenure. In order of importance: (1) grants (how much money have you brought in); (2) publications in peer-reviewed journals; (3) number of PhD students; (4) service (what committees have you been on; (5) teaching. In practice, 3 through 5 don't enter into it: you either have the bucks and the pubs or you don't. You need both 1 and 2, although the larger 1, the smaller 2, and vice versa.

      Text books are written for a variety of reasons (again, in the empirical sciences fields) including (1) money (oh, those horrible capitalists!), (2) there is no book for that topic, and (3) fame (a good textbook is a great way to enhance your visibility). We (tenured full professors) advise all assistant professors not to write books. At the tenure and promotion hearings, you can count on people asking why the person wasted time writing a text instead of writing a grant application or a paper.

      Standard contracts give 10% royalties on the publisher's price for soft covers, 13% for hard covers. The publisher's price is not the price students pay. My text, for example, sells for about $80, the publisher's price is about $50. Sales in Canada are usually at half the royalty rate; sales overseas even less (my text sells for 20 GBP in the UK, for example). To some extent, these rates are negotiable (I have Canada classed as domestic, for example). FWIW, I wrote my book for fame; it is a graduate-level text.

    2. Re:The Academic System by sumo61 · · Score: 1

      Thank you for sharing/clarifying that information...very helpful. My situation is a smaller univ in the very deep south. The tenure review requirements are actually scored differently between the univ and the school (Technology). The program is the applied science of construction management (therefore the Tech). It is however, my perception that I can receive 30pts for a text published and 5pts for a peer reviewed journal. Six published journals however are equivalent in pts, but most likely much lower in effort required. Thanks again.

  30. The Open Univercity by blackest_k · · Score: 1

    The OU on some courses make the course texts available as pdf files and these have less errata in them than the printed copys.

    However this compliments the paper copies rather than replaces them.

    In reader you can search for key words which is invaluble whem working on TMA questions as a few seconds searching takes you to a relevent section but then I open the printed book and use that to work from.

    A real book allows you to highlight key sections make notes in the margin.

    The E-book also means I can work anywhere I have internet access. perhaps if i had two monitors I could put the ebook on one and work on the other

    I can work with 2 computers but as many of us know its easy to type into the wrong keyboard.

    having the E-book is a great help out of 3 courses I do, only 1 gives the oportunity to get the E-Book.

    Outside the OU Longman does an electronic version of its dictionary on cdrom that comes with the paper copy and this again is perhaps more useful than the paper copy although not everything is included from the paper copy cross referencing is a lot simpler.

    The EBook form is a definate bonus longmans dictionary is copy protected so they do not lose sales and I wish more publishers would follow their lead.

    Right now I have a book on order from penguin that is taking forever to arrive. since I have already placed my order for the paper copy perhaps they could make an E Copy available for download. print on demand still means a wait of at least 4 weeks :(

  31. good idea ? by cinnamon+colbert · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Lets take calculus, which has not reallly changed in, say , 200 years... I could buy a nice, acid free paper reprint, which will last for years without batteries for a few dollars from dover, or I could spend 100s of $$ to have something which only works out of the rain, in the right light.... This is an example of not focusing on the problem. The problem is not the delivery technology (print vs online), or the need for updating on a 5 yr cycle (does heat transfer really change that much ?). The problem is the (a) the greed inspired by our capitlist system, which winds up screwing the students, and (b) the complicity of professors, educators and boards of education, which in many states mandate texts. ... To restate the point, if you ask, not is it neat technology, but how would I best serve the students. I think that a co-operative, nonprofit publisher, organized over the net with cvs like software, putting out nice high quality texts on acid free paper, would be a better solution for high school and entry college texts. Even in fast moving fields ( I am familiar with molecular biology, genomics and genetics) most of what gets taught is old; you only need a small handout each year for updating. Even on a strict environmental basis, if only 10% of the "free" heat transfer texts get printed out, is that a plus, considering that home printers are probably environmental disasters, compared to commercial plants ?

    1. Re:good idea ? by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      > Lets take calculus, which has not reallly changed in, say , 200 years...

      BULLSHIT!

      The calculus book I used in college 15 years ago was already the 3rd edition, and has had several more since.

      They wouldn't be like, screwing us over by forcing the purchasing of new books every few years by aborting the used book market, would they?

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    2. Re:good idea ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Students are paying big bucks to get basic education but also, hopefully to learn the latest wrinkles and applications. A $100 textbook is expensive, but in context of a $1200 course, maybe this isn't where you skimp by requiring a $11.95 Dover book. Some subjects like basic math haven't changed much in decades, others such as biology and economics have.

      I love Dover books, have a shelf full of 'em. I look at it as hit or miss - if I end up reading a third of them most of the way through I come out ahead.

  32. It could be the key to renewable power. by Moderation+abuser · · Score: 2, Offtopic

    Sure, sounds dull but heat is looking like a viable way of storing energy generated from renewable sources.

    CAES systems use air compressed using energy from off peak generation to provide generation capacity during peak hours:

    http://www.pbworld.com/pbenergy/caes.htm

    Already implemented in Germany and Alabama.

    The Solar II power tower system in California stores concentrated heat from the sun in molten salt in order to generate power at night and during cloudy periods.

    http://rhlx01.rz.fht-esslingen.de/projects/alt_e ne rgy/sol_thermal/powertower.html

    --
    Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
  33. Thumbs up! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great initiative. Although I have no problems acquiring text books for a *decent* price. Basically, this is not a problem of the authors or the buying public, but the greed of publishers who focus on profit only and do not really care about distrubuting knowledge. Therefore I say, great initiative!

  34. xpdf by Maimun · · Score: 1

    For some reason, acroread 5.* segfaults of RedHat 9.0. And acroread 4.* is not good for this texbook as they warn. But xpdf works fine -- that's how I read it now.

    1. Re:xpdf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Under Red Hat Linux 9, try typing:

      env LANG="C" acroread file.pdf

      The issue is that Red Hat changed the default locale setting to "UTF-8" which acroread apparently can't deal with. This issue has been documented since Red Hat Linux 8.0 (search for "acroread"): Red Hat 8.0 Release Notes.

  35. Why not rent books? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I went to one of the University of Wisconsin schools and the University rented all of the books to us as part as our students fees. (which were the same if not lower than most other schools) If you really wanted to own the books you could buy them back for less than $5 a piece. They normally didn't have the most recent editions avalible to buy, but with engineering the equations don't change so it doesn't really matter. My point is I will never need to look at at book from my liberal arts classes ever again so why should I pay over $50 for it?

  36. Can't argue with free (or can you?!) by bobbis.u · · Score: 1
    Much better value than the original price.

    Has anyone used this text book before? It is all very well giving away books for free, but if they aren't that good anyway, you still have to buy another one. When I have a spare moment I will try to look through the book more carefully, but from a cursory glance, it looks good so far.

  37. Open mind by Maljin+Jolt · · Score: 1

    Open technology, open culture, open society. These are necessities for freedom.

    There are no digital rights, only digital slavery.

    --
    There you are, staring at me again.
    1. Re:Open mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whereas "open asshole" is a really good insult in Danish.

  38. free (of hangovers) stuff lightens load by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    strange brew, that's good for you.

  39. what five year cycle? by theycallmeB · · Score: 1

    On my campus, the Statics 1 class has gone through three different textbooks in as many years (and stress = young's modulus * strain hasn't changed a whole lot in that time). Many other textbooks also seem to rotate editions every 2-2.5 years except for those few books you really want to keep.

    I wish these gentlemen the best of luck with this and certaintly hope that the faculty in my department will give it a look. My heat transfer book was not terribly good, cost too much and had no resale value (so I kept it). This e-text certainly wins in one regard.

  40. no fun by rozz · · Score: 0

    no funny comment for this story! ... one more proof that engineering is dull and boring

    --
    "There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
  41. See The Website www.uh.edu/engines !!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    These same people produce a wonderful website called How Inventive Minds Work. A beautiful and thoughful website. See www.uh.edu/engines. !!! plus you an downlaod the textbook from there.

  42. Wonderful! Wonderful! Wonderful! by Phidoux · · Score: 1

    Thank you John H Lienhard V and John H Lienhard IV.

    Having lived in Africa all my life I know how prohibitively expensive education can be for so many people in poorer countries. It is truly uplifting to read about the gift you have given and I truly hope that you have set an example for many others. Thank you!

  43. More info on MIT's Intermediate Heat XFer Course by Xoo · · Score: 2, Informative

    Lienhard's course is available on OpenCourseWare as well, to go along with the posted Heat Transfer textbook. It's a very thorough read for an intermediate-level class, happy learning :-) Here's the link

    --
    Karma police, arrest this man, he talks in maths....
  44. Nifty idea. by CFBMoo1 · · Score: 1

    Hope they keep printed copies though incase something ever happens to computers.

    --
    ~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
  45. Re:The Open University by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's a pity that the OU don't teach spelling.

    (And yes, I am an OU student, thanks for asking.)

  46. Well I have no clue what its about.. by Shivetya · · Score: 1

    But I downloaded it. Gave them correct information. Plan to expand my horizons by finding out what it is about.

    On a side note, the Economist recently ran an article asking if Public Libraries are now out dated. If so then it is says a lot about society and not much of that is bad. Making texts of books like this available is a start, making the fact that they are available is the real task. Perhaps the government can use some of that money wasted on pork barrel projects to provide a public "Internet library" which collects such releases as this?

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
    1. Re:Well I have no clue what its about.. by Feztaa · · Score: 1

      Well, there is Project Gutenberg.

  47. Even better... by dysprosia · · Score: 2, Interesting

    How about open, realtime editing, creation, correcting, and updating of free, GFDL'd textbooks? It's already here: check out wikibooks.

  48. Rubbish by IWannaBeAnAC · · Score: 1
    A tiny number of textbooks that end up making quite a lot of money, typically things like first year economics or commerce textbooks, that have a large student body and a long shelf-life.

    The vast majority of textbooks don't make a significant amount of money. Certainly not enough to justify writing them for that purpose alone.

  49. Should be easy to bust this Racket by snatchitup · · Score: 1

    I remember text books in College. What a racket!

    1. Write Text Book (introduced with typo errors).

    2. Get Professor to force students to buy.

    3. Write new Text Book (same as old, but with some typos fixed, and some new ones introduced.

    4. Next semester, Get Professor to force students to buy newer improved version.

    5. Go back to step 3.

    ------
    If I were in college today, I would be outraged if I were required to buy a single text book.

    Everything is on the net.

  50. five year cyle? by illtron · · Score: 1

    A five year cycle? Seems to me that they never had much trouble putting out new editions of most of the expensive textbooks every year or two when I was in college, and I only finished two years ago. I swear I saw at least three or four different covers on those damn massive Biology and Calculus textbooks that got progressively more expensive every freakin' year. Good thing I didn't have to buy them. I see no excuse why any college shouldn't start using this and other similar online texts for the fall semester. If it's good enough for MIT...

    --
    Slashdot: 24 hours behind every other site or your money back!
  51. What about editorial review? by Wormholio · · Score: 1
    On the whole I think this is a good idea. I just looked at textbooks for a course I'll be teaching next fall and they range from $109 to $136 for a book we will use for only one semester. Textbook prices are way too high. On top of that publishers are releasing new editions of some books more quickly, forcing us to change to the newer edition (or switch to a different publisher) more often, and making previous editions "obsolete" when they are just fine.

    But there are a few things that the publishers do provide that contribute to the quality of the book. Publishers can take care of layout, complicated drawings and photos, photo copyright permissions, and lots of other mundane production issues. More importantly, they will send out draft copies of new texts, new editions, or chapters of new editions to other professors in the field to get feedback and to provide quality control.

    There may be tools which help self-published authors take care of formatting and layout, and you may not need to use all those pictures (or you can make your own). But if this is to succeed as a way to publish quality textbooks some mechanism of "peer review" is needed. That might end up being word of mouth, or there might have to be some kind of stamp of approval from some group people respect. Or some new mechanism we haven't figured out yet.

    But I do think it's an interesting idea, and I hope it works. Years ago, before the web, I had thought about getting together some notes on quantum field theory and putting them out for anonymous FTP, without my name on them, as the "anonymous Field Theory Primer" :-)

    --
    "Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire." -- William Butler Yeats
  52. That is why I wrote two free web books by MarkWatson · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have written several published books - overall a very fun experience, but for one thing:

    I would occasionally get emails from people teaching classes to students who no-way could afford to buy my books (usually in 3rd world countries). These teachers would ask for permission to copy a few chapters for class distribution - something that I did not have the right to do.

    My solution to this problem was to write 2 free web books using a Creative Commons license (I was the featured commoner about a year ago).

    I still write books for publication, but to be honest, writing free books under a CC license is way more satisfying.

    -Mark

  53. Good start, but we need GPL multimedia textbooks by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I teach at a large university and my colleagues and I have spend some thought on open-source multimedia textbooks - not PDFs, which are almost completely inferior to their paper counterparts, and take no advantage of being consumed through a computer.

    It was our idea that we should start with an introductory physics text, say, basic mechanics. The ultimate product would be an .iso disk image which contains not only a textbook, but recordings of key lectures, some highly compressed video and simulations of certain experiments, perhaps rendered in a GPL 3D graphics engine (where physical principles would be programmed in, and students could manipulate the setup and observe realistic changes in the results).

    This would be a large and publicised project, and one that could/should attract enough NSF funding to cover its modest costs. (I've seen the NSF give money to much more frivolous ideas!) The initial text might be a "donation" from a cooperating professor, and the audio/video lecture fragments would also be solicited recorded in the classrooms of truly excellent faculty. (Nobody I talked to about this said he/she would refuse.) The various programs and simulations that need to be written would come from contracted, qualified and paid programmers and graduate students. (And perhaps volunteers.) All their code would be GPL.

    Once the project gets going, a working group, organized much like an editorial board, would solicit and review new submissions and alterations. There can be arbitrarily many exercise problems, as well as detailed explanations of their solutions.

    These would fully take advantage of the digital format. One weakness of paper textbooks is that by their nature, they have space for only a few fully-solved and explained sample exercises. This would not be a limitation of an electronic text. In fact, how to solve an exercise could be explained in several different ways by different instructors, maximizing the chance the student would "get it". I imagine an interface where next to each step, there is a small "how does this follow?" button. If pressed, it opens a small window describing the motivation of a certain transition.

    Many of these details and elaborations could be contributed by users of the textbook. Like any major software project, there would be a moderated online forum to discuss issues related to the textbook. Ultimate decisions about how the text should be updated (the regular "distributions" of the GPL material) would be made by the editorial board. In academia many professors participate in editing journals pro bono, and we could expect something similar here. Feedback on the various aspects of the text would be solicited directly from students and instructors, and the editorial board would post "requests for updates" with specific issues that need to be addressed to make the project a better learning tool.

    Well, we thought about many more details of implementation, but they are boring and you guys might have better ideas anyway. The point of the whole project would be primarily to have a supplement to introductory college-level classes, but the uses go far beyond that. The textbook would be designed to be self-learner friendly, something a motivated high-school student could easily work through. It could be duplicated cheaply and en masse (at first it would be a set of CD-ROMS, eventually transitioning to DVD-ROMS). In places where poverty, georgaphy and cultural factors limit access to higher education (which includes parts of the USA), people will still have simple computers and can cover the $2 for a burned DVD-ROM.

    Of course, the idea would be to get one "hit" textbook and then reuse the software and other infrastructure to make more. Not only would this textbook require sequels, but also a demand for a calculus textbook in the same format. These are ideal fields for getting the project rolling, because introductory math, physics and chemistry textbooks don't get obsolete very quickly. How this project would be paid for re

  54. This is a good trend. by lasmith05 · · Score: 1

    I think most recent college grads will agree that the cost of books for students in any B.S. level degree have moved into the rape-me cost bracket. Would this be such a bad idea? Make me pay for a hard copy version, but if I want to get the basic information, I can always go to the library, copy pages from a page, or check out the online version. Maybe we can keep it honest by setting up the online version so you definetly can't print it out, or some kind of DRM. But in the end, I think the availabilty of such valuable information online would really help our education system.

    --
    www.samuraidreams.com - My Blog
    www.samuraifiles.com - Get Some Videos Here
  55. Re:Good start, but we need GPL multimedia textbook by Montreal+Geek · · Score: 1
    Hello Dr.

    Please email me. (Your /. account has no visible contact info).

    -- MG

  56. Free? You're Not Free To Decimate Industry by LaCosaNostradamus · · Score: 1

    Industries making billions just don't roll over when you propose they make 0.

    Prediction: For using their books, textbook publishers will soon get universities to sign comprehensive noncompete agreements, whereby their professors can't go and do "Communist" things like publish their own books ... especially for free.

    --
    [You have a stable society when some nut guns down a schoolyard and the law doesn't change.]
  57. Doesn't look too bad by davidelihu · · Score: 1

    I'm currently a junior at MIT. I just looked through the book and felt it is pretty well written. One thing that should be considered that all textbooks, just as all heat and mass transfer books, are not made equal.

    At MIT both the Chemical Engineering and Mechanical Engineering Departments use Incropera and DeWitt's Heat and Mass Transfer book. The free textbook seems like it may have the potential to be a good alternative, but as always, I judge a textbook more by the quality and relevance of the problems at the end of the chapter than the text itself. since the concepts of heat transfer have been around forever, concepts such as heat exchangers, lumped capacitance, etc. will be uniform throughout free and non-free textbooks.

  58. Part of My Learning for the Day by PingPongBoy · · Score: 1

    How about this (page 4):

    If all the people in the United States worked continuously like galley slaves, they could barely equal the power output of even a single city power plant

    I also learned about the transfer by radiation and black bodies. Even if the sun was surrounded by nothing to sun would still lose energy by emitting photons.

    --
    Know your pads. One time pad: good for cryptography. Two timing pad: where to take your mistress.
  59. Safari by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In the UK there are subscription services for institutions to sign up to. My University (Sunderland) curently has Safari on trial. There's only a handful of books available under the trial but it's a nice selection with some O'Reilly, Sams Teach Yourself, and some authorised books from Macromedia and Microsoft.

    There's also Heron from the excellent people at Ingenta who put all the journals online.

    It's nice to see my fees put to some good use rather than fancy lighting and LED information boards.

  60. There's already a good start out there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As a BioMed Engineering student who doesn't want to have to pay for both engineering and biology texts, I have found the Bookshelf at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=B ooks invaluble. The full texts are even fully searchable.

  61. Open publishing may reduce prices of textbooks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Let's face it. Textbooks in the US cost an arm and
    a leg. Whereas in India for e.g, textbooks are
    relatively quite cheap. Since textbooks there are
    published in English, and many of them are of
    equivalent quality -- I have seen my University
    Electronics design textbook -- in a local library
    here, if open publishing of textbooks takes off,
    the following benefits could occur:

    1. Bring down the cost of printed textbooks to a much more affordable level.
    2. Give exposure to authors outside of the US.
    3. Raise the overall quality of books because of
    more competition.
    4. Students of other poor countries have cheap
    access to US books and similarly US students have
    easy access to books published outside of the US
    -- getting a whole new perspective, so to speak.
    5. Open text books even if not published in
    English, may be partially machine translated and
    partially by volunteer effort -- a la HOWTO's and
    open source docs today -- reaching a much larger
    audience than the original native edition.
    6. Monopoly of big and expensive publishing houses
    is broken.
    7. We might see quotations in books from non
    English speaking countries ;-) I am tired of
    seeing authors repeatedly quote Shakespeare and
    other Anglo-Saxon authors or stuff like baseball
    and other US games in books which no one outside
    the US really cares for.

    1. Re:Open publishing may reduce prices of textbooks by csirac · · Score: 1

      ... yet another AC modded down for no obvious reason.

      We might see quotations in books from non English speaking countries ;-)

      And then they can learn to use 'freakin SI units! I couldn't believe the shock/horror when I purchased an otherwise fantastic comms circuits book, and found that the worked examples were almost useless due to usage of feet/farenheit/inches/miles.

  62. if you cant write, you cant teach by peter303 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Writing a coherent text clarifies one's knowledge of a subject. If you havent taken the time to write down your material, even in an informal text, then you probably havent consolidated your subject well.

  63. Free Biomedical Library by Dr_Emory · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The National Library of Medicine makes available a number (maybe 25?) of the electronic versions of print textbooks on a variety of topics. This can be an excellent resource. Check it out.

  64. Re:Good start, but we need GPL multimedia textbook by Teancum · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I was a part of a "research project" funded by the U.S. Department of Education for $750,000 that was to do exactly what you are saying here. We were trying to develop multimedia development tools that could be used to help instructors put together instructional multimedia software.

    The software we developed (I was the programmer on the project) was used for several classes on campus at Utah State University, where the project was based from, under the direction of Dr. R. Kent Wood (he has since retired). Our primary emphasis was more toward K-12 learning, but it proved to be quite popular with several computer-based learning groups including C.A.L.I.C.O, a group of individuals working on acquiring forign language skills through computer-based learning.

    There are several issues that need to be dealt with in regards to multimedia development. Some of them have been solved compared to what I was dealing with in the past, but some still are huge problems:
    • Multimedia standards - This is one of the areas that due to the emergence of the World Wide Web and other generally open applications has pushed this forward quite a bit. MPEG, PNG (MNG), and other standardized formats have really made a difference over the zoo of incompatable formats that there were even 10 years ago. There is still need to do more work in this area, and there are some items that really need review. Multimedia game design and the entertainment industry, unfortunately, are the major drivers of this sort of activity.
    • Accessable Multimedia Materials - Due to the "eternal" copyright of many multimedia types (photos, audio clips, cinema in all its flavors) are copyrighted and impossible to use as "fair-use" for educational purposes except on a very limited basis. Court ruling on this strongly favor the media companies and make it almost impossible to use anything that is available. The Google image search is essentially worthless if you want to use it in any instructional software that would be used for more than a single section of a single course taught at only one university. I would love to see a Multi-media variant of Project Gutenberg where you could get central repository of multimedia items (a clip art library, music clips, video, etc.) that would be guarenteed to be totally public domain or released in some copyleft arrangement. There is quite a bit on the internet, but it is scattered around and really needs to be put together. There are some collections (I happen to have some content I'd like to donate) that simply needs to be put together, scanned, and released. If I had infinite resources and time I'd like to do this, and if it isn't going by the time I get close to retirement, I may get this going myself anyway. I just need to feed my family for now.
    • Authoring System Support - There needs to be a standardizing the "glue" format that holds all of this multimedia information together with Unicode-based text that is appropriate in a computer-based learning environment needs to be worked out. HTML and its variants are pretty good, and there some fairly decent "authoring" tools available such as Authorware or Director, but these all have some hard limitations. The High Schools that I've seen are typically either using HTML or Power Point (I am not kidding here either) for routine stuff that is developed. University-level instruction is totally non-standard and often includes custom software written for the one project, which eats up almost all the time and resources of the project. Ideally I'd love to see an open-source project that would help put this sort of instruction together. It needs to be easy to use, but powerful enough that if you are willing to learn (with a shallow learning curve) you can get progressively more features to the point that you can write the entire authoring environment in itself (aka be Turing complete). Nothing I know of has this capability at th
  65. Some other free textbooks available by Richard+Mills · · Score: 1

    It's great to see people putting free textbooks online. It's nothing new, though. Check out

    http://samizdat.mines.edu/

    To see several on-line works (mostly geophysics stuff) that have been available for a number of years.

  66. Here's how to make online books pay by Brian+Stretch · · Score: 1

    Universities could collect, say, a $5 per student course fee for an official license for the e-book. O'Reilly or Amazon or someone new could handle distribution and payment collection. There would be no copy protection or other annoyances, paying students could download (and keep) the complete books and everyone could view them online. Payment would largely be on the honor system. It would be useful to have a single, organized site to distribute the books.

    The course fee approach would be very efficient and still provide a nice recurring revenue stream. Overhead in general would be minimal.

    The biggest potential flaw: are professors and administrators honest enough to collect and pay the course fees?

    I think this system would fit academia extremely well.

  67. I smell more "free trade" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    free textbooks hold the potential for fundamentally altering the economics of higher education, particularly in those environments where money is scarce.

    Oh great. Offshoring gets easier and easier.

  68. Key-word ads in textbooks? by fbg111 · · Score: 1

    The aim of this effort is to explore the possibilities of placing textbooks online -- effectively giving them away.

    So, how long before we start seeing Ebay banner ads in our free e-textbooks?

    --
    Flying is easy, just throw yourself at the ground and miss. -Douglas Adams
  69. Another thread on textbook prices by aynrandfan · · Score: 1

    Back in January we had this thread on textbook price gouging.

    --

    ----

    "Ours was a free culture. It is becoming much less so."-Lawrence Lessig

  70. University of Texas by lowflying · · Score: 1

    The University of Texas College of Liberal Arts ITS has been pursuing projects like this for a few years, with their French, Spanish and Texas Politics textbooks.

  71. Not really the case by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As far as my experiences have gone, most, if not all, of my classes included texts with solutions manuals for all the problems. My grades came primarily from either quizzes and tests or from homework problems formulated by the professor that could not be found in the book. Book problems were assigned mainly for their usefulness as study aids - nothing was stopping people from just copying from the solutions manuals, and indeed many did in the classes where homework was required, but even then, homework was a very small fraction of the overall grade.

  72. Free Curricula Foundation by Stephen+H.+Foerster · · Score: 1

    For those interested in helping a new organization dedicated to building and promoting copylefted university materials, check out the Free Curricula Foundation.

    Our focus is on materials for students and faculty in the developing world, but certainly not exclusively.

    One way we'd like to start is by polishing public domain materials for subjects like calculus that haven't changed since before Steamboat Willy.

    -=Steve=-
    1. Re:Free Curricula Foundation by sumo61 · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the great link...

  73. Atmospheric Physics Texts by Hackysacker · · Score: 1

    The Lienhards have done an outstanding job. I tried to get NSF funding to assemble and put texts online four years ago. My proposal was declined, but I've kept assembling the books in my spare time online anyway. There are three of them: Natural Aerosols, Radiative Transfer, Particle Size distributions, all GFDL's and available here. Enjoy!

  74. Tell you what... by cot · · Score: 1

    You take that 90 year old dover reprint on calculus and make sure you learn your quaternions well...

    No idea where you'll learn about vectors, but hey who needs those, right? They're just a useful abstraction, nothing fundamentally different. Now go and try learning some physics.

    Why not start off with a 60 year old Quantum Mechanics book. It was all there, right? Enjoy the piecemeal theory and obsolete notation.

    But the physics is the same, so who cares?

    Dover books are a treasure, but if you really want to learn a topic rather than just having historical curiousity for a topic, you need a relatively modern book. Who really wants to learn about E+M for the first time from Maxwell's original papers?

    --

  75. Outstanding! by Noxx · · Score: 1

    I'm only a few years out of college, and I well remember having to sell back reasonably important textbooks (Algorithms & Data Structures, Intro to Calculus, etc) just so I could afford gas to drive home over vacation. After getting an internship in my upper-division years, I found myself buying back these same textbooks for reference. I'm told this was common practice for students who later went into corporate accounting ;-)

    It would have been nice to just purchase one or more CDs containing my textbooks for the semester in HTML format. The next year's issue might be updated, but at least I'd have had a permanent (barring CD rot of course) copy for later reference. It'd also solve the problem of students having different versions of the same textbook...there always seemed to be confusion in the first week or two of class between the new/old release, the professor having an updated "teacher's edition", or some students who pooled their cash and bought a single copy to share.

    A final point...it'd sure help with these BOXES of books I got stored in my attic now.

    --
    Study everything, you'll find something you can use - Jason Bourne
  76. Good for Science books, maybe not for History. by MacDork · · Score: 2, Funny
    • Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia. Since the beginning of your life, since the beginning of the Party, since the beginning of history, the war has continued without a break, always the same war.
    Take one part secure eBook format, one part trusted computing, and one part extensible markup. Mix vigorously and serve with a side of Freedom fries.
  77. Email Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dr. Spork,

    Could you please email me? Your profile doesn't list your contact email.

    Thanks!

  78. Re:Good start, but we need GPL multimedia textbook by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 1
    Wow, thank you for that excellent post. I am very pleased that this sort of idea has made some progress beyond the "idea stage". Though the target audience I am imagining is different from the one your project aimed at, many of the issues you mention would reappear in the project I describe. I saved the links and your email address, and if this goes further, you might hear from me.

    It really is a shame that the licensing issues basically left this thing impossible to resurrect. The next time grant-committes throw money to a similar idea, I hope they realize the GPL will give them the most bang for the buck.

    I re-read my post and I don't want to make it sound like we have a working group that is looking to do some grant-writing. Disclaimers: Actually, I'm still not done with my dissertation, so my /. name is a bit premature. And when my dissertation is finished, it will be in Philosophy (though I did Physics as an undergrad and had some awesome professors who made me "see" the principles - and this is what inspired me to do this multimedia book idea).

    There is a project I'm involved with, which really is accreting material: we are reading classics of philosophy, ones that students are commonly assigned, and releasing the performances into the public domain in .mp3 format. So far we have all of Hume's Enquiry Concerning Human Undertanding, and the website for the project is due to go live later this summer. My students have already given me very positive reviews about the readings. But this open-source textbook project could be a huge, potentially world-changing thing. So if anyone finds some grant money for innovative education projects, you don't have to credit me to get the project rolling.

  79. Maybe, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    While we have the likes of CBS splashing high-level quotes to hawk their latest "expose", like...

    "We wouldn't want have people without degrees in Homeland Security."

    One must wonder. Since knowledge now apparently has exactly ZERO value, in and of itself, who cares what is available? Spend $50K, or get someone else to spend it, or you still end up below poverty as a K-Mart cashier.

    We simply do not, can not, respect KNOWLEDGE when the MONEY is the God of Fact.

    I admire MIT - to an extent. They're publishing alot of things, ahead of their time, but are also strongly reinforcing (abusing) a world where important decisions are decided on patently peripheral (non-contributing) issues, with bigot like zeal. "No degree - no job" is exactly as bad as "Black - no job".

    Free the exchange of information all you want - but until we actually have a system dedicated to actually using it, the US will continue to decline.

  80. The other extreme at the University of Texas by tyrantnine · · Score: 2, Interesting

    All Computer Science and Electrical Engineering majors at the University of Texas are required to take EE316 (Digital Logic Design) at the University of Texas. The class textbook was written by the professor of the course (Charles Roth) and with software included costs approxmiately $140 new. The Text is on its fifth edition and I believe a lot of the changes are for no reason other than to force students to buy new books. At the beginning of the semester (the only time one sees one of the professors in this self-paced class), the other overseeing professor made it a point to encourage everyone to write in the book when answering homework problems -- quite obviously so students would not be able to sell them back. I thought that was bad enough when I swallowed the price myself, but they even had the gall to send out an e-mail to all sections of the class saying everyone had an important decision to make: Whether or not to sell back the text! And of course, it was a good idea not to as this book is a valuable reference to keep, yadda. Anyway it sort of sickened me that the profs of the course were so brazen about it. It's an excellent text, no doubt, and it has to be since the class is self-paced (meaning, the textbook is your only real source of instruction), but its horrendously overpriced and updated to new editions with odd frequency. If all thats not enough, a 20 page "course supplement" must also be purchased for the class to nick you for another 5 dollars - why this is not availible as a PDF (or whatever) it pretty obvious. Anyway, perhaps authors dont make much from texts, but Charles Roth at UT-Austin appears to be doing his best to pad his retirement (which is coming soon). As for me, fortunately this book will be good for at least another semester, so fortunately I will be able to get back some of the $140 I spent on this book... if I ever need a reference, I'll go buy a copy of a previous edition for $5 from one of the hoardes of prior EE or CS students at UT who got nailed on a semester a new edition was coming out...

  81. Very cool! by rskrishnan · · Score: 1

    Hello All, This is a _very_ nice move. Would help a ton of students learn, and save them a ton of $$. Textbooks published in the US/UK - mostly U.S. - represent a signifcant portion of the curriculum in EE/CS/CompEngr. Texts like the "dragon books", or the OS books, or Taub & Schilling or Millman & Halkias, Benjamin Kuo (control systems) are worth their weight in gold - but still basically unaffordable in the _converted_ currency. Open/cheaper/free textbooks would be a welcome move in many countries. Yes they still need to get access to the www to download the book - but that is becoming easier by the day. RSK.

  82. Re:Good start, but we need GPL multimedia textbook by An+Ominous+Cow+Aired · · Score: 1

    Make it a live-cd!!! This way the execution environment is guaranteed, without the student needing to have Linux installed. Plus open-source gets more exposure.

    Also, distribute all the (specialized) tools necessary to modify and re-create the cd - either for fixing errors, or for creating new books. If there isn't enough room, distribute it as a second CD. Preferrably, everything necessary should be included, rather than just the specialized things.

    I.e. include a word processor, not just the script that bundles all the files into an .ISO image.

    --

    Become A Real Millionaire, in 10 seconds, on your computer! (rf=really fast) Read manual, YMMV.
    rm -rf *
  83. Please learn how to use links. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Please learn how to use links.
    <a href="http://www.baen.com/library/">Free Science Fiction</a>
    yields: Free Science Fiction
  84. Please learn how to use links. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Please learn how to use links.
    <a href="http://www.opensourcetext.org">California Open Source Textbook Project</a> (COSTP)(conducting pilot projects)

    <a href="http://wikibooks.org/wiki/World_History_Proj ect">Wikipedia World History Project</a> (a beginning K-12 pilot inspired by COSTP and based on strict California State surriculum standards)

    <a href="http://ocw.mit.edu/index.html">MIT's OpenCourseWare project</a> (a university-based open curriculum project)
    yields:
    California Open Source Textbook Project (COSTP)(conducting pilot projects)

    Wikipedia World History Project (a beginning K-12 pilot inspired by COSTP and based on strict California State surriculum standards)

    MIT's OpenCourseWare project (a university-based open curriculum project)
  85. Ultimate Teaching Freedom by 4of12 · · Score: 1

    would be if video clips of professors at boards explaining concepts were made freely available.

    In multiple languages.

    Yes, students would still miss out on mutual interaction, but this would be a great way to increase access to higher education.

    And not just engineering, despite its importance. But mathematics, literature, philosophy, political science, psychology, 2nd languages, should be course offerings, too.

    --
    "Provided by the management for your protection."