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Amateur Rocket to Carry Ham Radio Payload to Space

Posted by michael on from the estes-all-out-of-D-engines dept.

n1ywb writes "An amateur rocket team this month will attempt to send a 21-foot-tall rocket carrying a ham radio avionics package into the fringes of space. The launch by the Civilian Space Xploration Team (CSXT) could occur as early as Monday, May 17. Some 20 months ago, the last CSXT try to reach space ended some three seconds after launch when the rocket's engine exploded. Avionics Team Leader Eric Knight, KB1EHE, says CSXT has since rebounded from that devastating blow with a newer, bigger vehicle. In terms of Amateur Radio, the GoFast rocket will transmit telemetry on the 33-cm amateur band and Amateur TV at 2.4 GHz using a high-quality color camera. The avionics also incorporate multiple global positioning system (GPS) systems to record the vehicle's precise location and flight path, redundant data acquisition and storage systems, and a variety of data sensors. Plans call for the solid-fuel rocket to zip upward from the desert floor and reach a speed of more than 4000 MPH in about 9 seconds. The suborbital vehicle will attain an altitude of 100 km or 62 statute miles--high enough to be considered 'space'--linger there for a couple of minutes then arc back to Earth some 26 miles down range. The whole thing will take somewhat less than a half-hour. If successful it would mark the first amateur rocket launch into space."

222 comments

  1. Yeah, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    But what's the poor guy going to eat up there?

    1. Re:Yeah, by Razor+Blades+are+Not · · Score: 1

      Umm.. Ham ?

  2. Huh ? Why ? by LouSir · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    Why a Ham radio ? People are gonna have to talk real fast before the thing splashes (splats) back down. How about a Ham sandwich instead. Lou Sir

  3. Linger? by Ckwop · · Score: 1

    Linger at 62 miles up where there nearly no air? More like falling to earth at over the speed of sound

    Simon

    1. Re:Linger? by hopemafia · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes, linger. The vertical velocity of the rocket decreases to 0 at the top of its trajectory and then accelerates downward due to gravity, therefore the rocket will spend a longer time at the top than at any other point in its journey (besides the ground...). Thus linger is the appropriate term.

      --
      If God had had a computer it would have taken him 7 months to create the earth...if he even bothered to do it at all.
  4. I suppose the X-prize is out the question by brejc8 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Imagine the rocket needed to take these three guys up there and back.

    --
    Mouse powered Chips, Open source Processors and Lego
    1. Re:I suppose the X-prize is out the question by Anti+Frozt · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      It's a good thing they're sending a ham radio up. I think they've had one to many themselves.

      --
      In C++, friends can touch each others private parts.
    2. Re:I suppose the X-prize is out the question by javatips · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's a good thing they're sending a ham radio up

      don't tell me that they put a RFID tag on a pig and sending him in space!

    3. Re:I suppose the X-prize is out the question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're clearly in the XXXL-prize league...

    4. Re:I suppose the X-prize is out the question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least they're not XXXYLs. (Ham humor.)

    5. Re:I suppose the X-prize is out the question by ScottGant · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Then again, those three guys you jest at actually did a cool thing. They dreamt about something and they up and made it. And it wasn't a cheap and easy feat either.

      In this cynical world where people crap on anything and everything someone else does...yet they themselves do nothing but sit and surf the web, it's refreshing to see someone actually BUILD something they think is cool, just for the sake of building it.

      --

      "Music is everybody's possession. It's only publishers who think that people own it." - John Lennon.
    6. Re:I suppose the X-prize is out the question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      That's fine. They're still fat though.

    7. Re:I suppose the X-prize is out the question by brysnot · · Score: 1

      Da' bulls!
      courtesy SNL

    8. Re:I suppose the X-prize is out the question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are jealous just because those guys are geekier than you.

    9. Re:I suppose the X-prize is out the question by Razor+Blades+are+Not · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I think your .sig says it all.

      Just because something is incredibly cool doesn't mean we can't laugh at it.

    10. Re:I suppose the X-prize is out the question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      His .sig was from a Deep Thoughts, guess you didn't get it which makes you a step below the original poster.

    11. Re:I suppose the X-prize is out the question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it"

      Does that mean you get it? Please enlighten us, oh great one.

    12. Re:I suppose the X-prize is out the question by BunnyClaws · · Score: 1

      I agree Scott. They thought about doing something they thought was cool and did it. To many people on slash dot like to shit all over other peoples accomplishments. It must be a lack of Poontang.

      --
      "Anything tastes good if you deep fry it."
    13. Re:I suppose the X-prize is out the question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quoting someone else puts you "above" someone with an original thought ?
      Thanks for you contribution - now BACK IN THE CAGE !

  5. Ham, radio? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Looks like they have food and entertainment. Are there any passengers on this trip?

  6. Webcast.. by AllUsernamesAreGone · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I wonder if they'll do a webcast of the TV signal for those of us out of range/without HAM equipment.

    1. Re:Webcast.. by thedillybar · · Score: 1

      Are you volunteering?

    2. Re:Webcast.. by n8twj · · Score: 1

      I'll donate a few gigs of bandwdith.

  7. Familiar Development Process by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Hey, it blew up!"
    "Guess we better build a bigger one."

    Sounds like management at my company...

    1. Re:Familiar Development Process by shawn(at)fsu · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Seriously though, how smart is it to A)make it bigger and hence different and B)put equipment on there that isn't needed to test it out.

      Would it not be smarter to stick with on rocket and test and refine it to get it to work a couple of times then spend the money for the fancy broadcasting equipment...

      --
      500 dollar reward for tip(s) leading to the arrest of the person(s) who stole my sig.
  8. Airbags? by purduephotog · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Does that model rocket come with an airbag?

    Honestly this is rather interesting. I've heard about the problems of establishing a GPS lock after a 25G sustained force- and that it's near impossible. Pulling it off is quite a feat.

    I don't understand why they are returning to earth so soon, however- shouldn't a parachute (which arguably wouldn't provide much slowdown with ~1000 molecules/cm3) delay the reentry more than 1/2 hour? Unless they are expecting to lawn dart ;)

    Here's to their success

    1. Re:Airbags? by mikeee · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Probably no parachute is a ground safety issue; if they deploy one at that altitude, there's no telling where the thing might land.

    2. Re:Airbags? by kbonin · · Score: 4, Informative

      Recovery is a big problem for high power rocketry - how many hours downrange do you want to drive to get your rocket back?

      Normal approach is to eject a small drogue parachute near the apex of the flight, which is intended too let you lose lots of altitude without going to fast. It also keeps you from drifting too far from the launch site. Once you're close to the ground (via redundant altimeters) you eject the main chute to set it down 'relatively' gently.

    3. Re:Airbags? by confused+one · · Score: 2, Informative

      RTFAs. It has parachutes (plural). It wouldn't deploy them until it's close to the ground. They're expecting it to land 30+miles downrange.

    4. Re:Airbags? by taniwha · · Score: 1

      I fly at Blackrock all the time - you have miles of downrange in all directions - but it's more common to deplot a drogue at apogee and something bigger at a few 1000 ft

    5. Re:Airbags? by jayteedee · · Score: 1

      No parachute would survive reentry. You would need some sort of ablative coated surface to take the heat for any length of time, but then your shedding a plasma field that would block any earth-bound receiver from listening to the transmission. I've seen the video feeds off sounding rockets (Black Brant, etc). Once you start picking up the atmosphere, you only see 2-3 seconds of telemetry before loss-of-signal. So, let it burn.

      --
      Religion and science are both 90% crap..but that doesn't negate the other 10%.
    6. Re:Airbags? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We are using two separate recovery systems after the rocket is cut in two.

  9. Oops, headline typo by Anonymous+Crowhead · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    It should read 'Amateur Rocket to Carry Ham, Radio Payload to Space'.

    They're sending up some ham and a radio.

    1. Re:Oops, headline typo by donnyspi · · Score: 1

      Sounds like something Dave Letterman would do...

    2. Re:Oops, headline typo by operagost · · Score: 1
      PIGS ... IN ... SPAAAAAAAAAAACE!

      and now some nonsense to dodge the lameness filter.

      oodeen geedon maden gloden *cues cowbell*

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  10. Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Those guys looked exactly like my mental stereotype of a classic nerd.

    1. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you have many non-mental stereotypes?

  11. One would think... by Power+Everywhere · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...that with all of the technology available nowadays we'd put something more advanced tham HAM radio into space. This is like using a submarine to deliver pizza.

    --

    BLING BLING. Meet the architecture that's changing everything.

    1. Re:One would think... by BCW2 · · Score: 1

      There's something wrong with that? My sub made pretty good pizza.

      SSN679

      --
      Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
    2. Re:One would think... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I don't know about you, but so far my pizza is delivered by car, bike or scooter... If someone showed up in a submarine I'd be rather impressed.

    3. Re:One would think... by confused+one · · Score: 2, Informative

      Ham radio is advanced. They're using Ham frequencies most likely because they can do so without requiring special liscensing from the FCC for the transponder channels. All they need is one person who is a liscensed Ham radio operator on the ground.

    4. Re:One would think... by AKAImBatman · · Score: 1

      There's something wrong with that? My sub made pretty good pizza.

      SSN679

      Unless I miss my guess, you are referring to the USS Silversides, named for the WWII SS236 submarine, launched June 1971, decommissioned and struck from the Navy list in July 1994.

      I didn't know those boats had a large enough kitchen to make a pizza. I suppose you could always pop it in the reactor for a quick warming! :-D

      --
      Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
    5. Re:One would think... by operagost · · Score: 1
      That's no joke - I was watching Mail Call recently on the History channel, and ol' Gunny visited the mess on a sub. The cooks are competent and the provisions are surprisingly good. The top notch grub probably helps make up for the less than luxurious living conditions.

      I imagine sardines aren't a popular item on the menu.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    6. Re:One would think... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the US an 802.11b card from Austrailia (to get the frequency in the Amature band) can be amplified to 200 Watts if you are a HAM. This requires you have a license so you understand how not to interfere with other people and how not to cook yourself with the RF. You pathetic unlicensed directional max of 4w wouldn't make it :-)

    7. Re:One would think... by Njall · · Score: 1

      Hate to be a troll; but apparently one isn't thinking! And your ignorance of HAM Radio is resplendent. Many, if not perhaps most, communications advancements in the last 100 years have been invented/distributed/tested by HAM Radio first. That cell-phone in your pocket is but one ubiquitous example.

    8. Re:One would think... by pyser · · Score: 1

      Actually, we usually do eat pizza when we stay overnight on the Silversides. The galley is compact but functional, and actually big enough to perform an appendectomy. Though today the galley's functionality is mainly to make coffee.

      BTW the Silversides is a diesel-powered ship, not a nuclear ship, and you never forget that if you've ever been inside one.

      And there is an amateur radio station on board the Silversides (as is the case with many museum ships). It's on the air many weekends, including October 2 when I plan to be operating from the ship.

    9. Re:One would think... by AKAImBatman · · Score: 1

      BTW the Silversides is a diesel-powered ship, not a nuclear ship, and you never forget that if you've ever been inside one.

      Wrong Silversides there, bub. You're referring to the WWII Ship (SS236), while the original poster was referring to the recently decommissioned nuclear Silversides (SSN679). Quite a difference there. ;-)

      Besides, I was just poking fun at how cramped those things are.

      --
      Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
    10. Re:One would think... by BCW2 · · Score: 1

      Thats right, sometimes refered to as the Silversides 2. The 100th Nuclear powered sub. I was there from 77 to 80, up north, the Med. All the fun places. Cramped, but a great crew. We arranged for some parts from the original (SS236) to be overhauled when the SubVets of WW II had there convention in Norfolk in 79. The tradition is kept alive through another generation.

      --
      Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
    11. Re:One would think... by AKAImBatman · · Score: 1

      We arranged for some parts from the original (SS236) to be overhauled when the SubVets of WW II had there convention in Norfolk in 79. The tradition is kept alive through another generation.

      So what do you think, are they going to build another Silversides? Perhaps a Virgina class submarine? Last I knew, there where about four outstanding orders on the class.

      --
      Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
    12. Re:One would think... by BCW2 · · Score: 1

      I wish, but, No, politics has decided that boats will now be named after states, like battleships. The Los Angeles (SSN 688)class were the first to break the tradition, named after cities like cruisers were/are. Then the Ohio's (SSBN 726) were named after states. Congress critters wil vote for something named after their state or a city therin, but not a fish. We helped with the SS 236 because Chicago was going to move jer to a different pier and the Vets wanted to do it under her own power, they did. We all owe those guys a big thanks for what they did, then and in WW II.

      --
      Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
    13. Re:One would think... by BCW2 · · Score: 1

      Let me correct myself. The first missle subs, George Washington (SSBN 598) btoke the tradition. Being named after significant people in US history, like destroyers still are.

      I can't believe we got this far off topic without getting hammered.

      --
      Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
    14. Re:One would think... by AKAImBatman · · Score: 1

      I wish, but, No, politics has decided that boats will now be named after states, like battleships.

      Sad, truly sad. I mean, which sounds more fearsome: Seawolf or Virginia? If I was an enemy of the US, I'd be WAY more woried about a large creature with teeth.

      I can't believe we got this far off topic without getting hammered.

      It's my patented reality distortion field. I kick up conversations that are so interesting that they don't get modded down. That is, as long as I don't offend anyone. ;-)

      --
      Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
    15. Re:One would think... by AKAImBatman · · Score: 1

      Hey, as long as we're stupendously offtopic, mind if I throw a question at you? Going through the information on the various submarines, I've noticed that every one is sponsored by a married women. (Presumably the wife of an officer.) Any idea what the tradition is surrounding that? And what are her responsibilities as a sponsor?

      --
      Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
    16. Re:One would think... by BCW2 · · Score: 1

      The duties of the sponsor? I was never on a new vessel or at the commisioning of one. She is the one that breaks the champagne bottle on the bow at launching. Other than that, I don't know. I think it's a cremonial thing only. Probably has a great story behind it that I never heard.

      My old boat was last seen at Puget Sound Naval Shipyard waiting for her turn to go into the death dock and be cut up for scrap. Thanks draft dodger Bill "the blazing zipper" Clinton.

      --
      Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
    17. Re:One would think... by AKAImBatman · · Score: 1

      Other than that, I don't know. I think it's a cremonial thing only. Probably has a great story behind it that I never heard.

      Here's what I found on the subject. Sadly, it seems that most of the lore behind the sponsor is lost in time.


      My old boat was last seen at Puget Sound Naval Shipyard waiting for her turn to go into the death dock and be cut up for scrap. Thanks draft dodger Bill "the blazing zipper" Clinton.

      Aye. Here she is in '97. I assume she's been long turned to scrap.

      I have to say that it was painful to see how much our ships had deteriorated after Clinton. Not only that, but how much public awareness had dropped. When CNN did an expose on our carriers, my coworkers were amazed at how truly large and powerful the vessels were. I could only bring myself to comment that it was good to see them used again instead of rotting somewhere at sea.

      Bush has had a hard time revitalizing our military, but he is actually doing it. If he ever figures out how to convey integrity (and goes and fixes the damn prison situation; treat them like OFFICERS dammit!) he'll be remembered as a fine president.

      BTW, you may already know about it, but this list may be of use to you.

      --
      Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
    18. Re:One would think... by pyrrhonist · · Score: 1
      I was watching Mail Call recently on the History channel, and ol' Gunny visited the mess on a sub. The cooks are competent and the provisions are surprisingly good. The top notch grub probably helps make up for the less than luxurious living conditions.

      As was mentioned on that episode, the particular sub he visited had won the competition for best grub in the Navy.

      --
      Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
  12. Xploration? by wtmcgee · · Score: 2, Funny

    they just HAD to use that 'X', didn't they?

    --
    *** For a better tommorow, change your life today ***
    1. Re:Xploration? by p3d0 · · Score: 1

      Maybe it's because CSET was already trademarked by IBM. (Though it's a different industry, so that may not actually matter.)

      --
      Patrick Doyle
      I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
  13. Folks, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Amateur TV at 2.4 GHz
    prepare for constant wi-fi interference throughot earth.

    fp

    1. Re:Folks, by LinuxGeek · · Score: 1

      Please keep in mind that Amateurs have primary use of much of the 2.4GHz spectrum.

      Primary means priority use over secondary users. 2.4GHz is loosely regulated by the FCC and has become a problem for stable communications. I have seen some 2.4GHz phones that will kill wi-fi connections everytime the phone rings...

      --

      Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see. - Mark Twain
    2. Re:Folks, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Yup. There is currently an ARRL working group putting together stuff on a new ham radio mode: HSMM. That is, High Speed Multimedia. Takes advantage of hams being 2.4GHz primary users over all the Part 15 WiFi stuff. It's based on 802.11b and uses regular stuff like VOIP, etc. It's all still a work in progress, as far as I know, but I'm excited. 50-80 mile WiFi links are spiffy.

      If you've ever looked to buy any 2.4GHz amps, you might have noticed that the higher-powered ones are only available for export, to the military, or to licensed radio amateurs. That's right---ham radio operators. :) Because we can go up to 100W in that band (with some restrictions, of course), unlike the wimpy 40mW of your Linksys wireless card.

      So yeah, ham radio is definitely still out there. (I'm a ham, and I'm in college. Imagine that!)

    3. Re:Folks, by zenyu · · Score: 2, Informative

      Please keep in mind that Amateurs have primary use of much of the 2.4GHz spectrum.

      Amateurs have co-secondary use of channels 1-6, and no use of 7-11. They have primary use of a portion of the spectrum used by channel 1, so they can interfere with ISL use on that channel (and 2,3,4 actually), but probably not with unmoded 802.11b equipment (A filter that cuts out the high end, or better yet a mod that lowers the "carrier frequency*" a bit.) Now this still lets hams transmit at much higher power on channels 1-6 than part 15 users, but they still have to accept interference, respond to complaints of interference, and also can't allow commercial or encrypted traffic to be transmitted over their system. And, hams must transmit their license id periodically and prominently; this lets you find the cretin that transmits 100 Watts through their dipole.

      * 802.11b is a spread spectrum technology so there isn't a carrier frequency per say, but actually a set of frequencies per channel, some of which are above the frequency allocation for primary use for hams even on channel 1.

    4. Re:Folks, by citdude · · Score: 1

      Any idea where I can get an amp for my 802.11b? I've been wondering about that for some time.

      -kf6auf
      ps. i know quite a few hams at my school.

    5. Re:Folks, by noleli · · Score: 1

      I know fab-corp.com has a bunch of stuff. I've been meaning to buy some MMCX->N-connecter pigtails from there for a while.

  14. Significant by Tuna_Shooter · · Score: 5, Informative

    I think most people don't realize the this is the FIRST non- governmental private ametuer vehicle to reach space. That by itselt is a VERY important milestone. I wish them well. !!

    --
    *--- Sometimes a majority only means that all the fools are on the same side. ---*
    1. Re:Significant by razmaspaz · · Score: 1

      Except that it didn't get there yet!

      --
      I tried for 5 years to come up with a clever sig...only to realize that I am not clever.
    2. Re:Significant by Entropy+Unleashed · · Score: 1

      Please note that they have not actually reached space yet. Until they do, this is just PR and speculation. And I wouldn't be too sure that this is the first amateur vehicle to reach space, either. JP Aerospace has sent up balloons to 100,000 feet, which is the height that this group is trying to reach. Just because it's not a rocket doesn't mean it's not a space vehicle.

      You also may want to check out some of the other really cool stuff they've been doing. They're currently working on a climp that would reach LEO over the course of a few days using ion propulsion. Details are a little sketchy on the aerodynamics and propulsion method, but it would be an extremely cheap and elegant solution to space access if they succeeded.

      --

      "I would give my right hand to be ambidextrous."
    3. Re:Significant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. 100,000 feet is about 16 miles up. The SR-71 flies at those altitudes. Ballons have reached those altitudes back in the 40s or 50s. There were *many* amateur rocket projects that went up that high. These guys are going for 60+ miles. That's suborbital space. What Alan Shepherd did back in 1961.

  15. Odd by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's amazing that the department of homeland insecurity would let ordinary people launch a homemade missile...

    1. Re:Odd by confused+one · · Score: 1

      apparently you have no idea how much paperwork they had to fill out and get approved before they were granted permission.

    2. Re:Odd by mwtown · · Score: 1

      It's only a missile if they add any guidance systems. Until then, it's a rocket.

      Yes, to the US Government, there's a difference.

    3. Re:Odd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wish I could cite it for you, but there was a story in the Wall Street Journal last week about how there might be a crackdown on model rocket engines in the name of "homeland security."

      One important point was made in the article, though-- it might be relatively easy to build a a "missle" but it is much harder to build one with a useful guidance system. I imagine that someone determined enough to make a guidance system would also be able to make their own rocket fuel anyway.

      If model rocketry has to stop in the name of "homeland security," then the terrorists have already won!

  16. Re:Ham Radio by iminplaya · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Ha! Maybe so, but after BIGCO turns all our computers into useless purchasing appliances, the only cool hobby left will be ham radio.

    This post brought to you by an "old geezer".

    --
    What?
  17. I predict by dannyelfman · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    That this whole thing will last about 30 seconds

  18. Wish them luck! by BCW2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't know if there is any real scientific value to this flight or not. But shooting a hobbists rocket into space is just cool. These folks are following in the footsteps of Goddard and the rest of the rocket pioneers. Not a bad path at all, they might even find something new. I hope they have fun, and everything works.

    --
    Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
    1. Re:Wish them luck! by Chairboy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Is there scientific value to you driving your car to a movie? The future of space will not be driven by science, it will be driven by industry. Hobbyists are usually a reliable indicator of directions that industry will follow.

    2. Re:Wish them luck! by bellers · · Score: 1
      Hobbyists are usually a reliable indicator of directions that industry will follow.


      Really? I can think of some notable exceptions.

      --
      This space for rent.
    3. Re:Wish them luck! by BrodyVess · · Score: 1

      There might very well be, if you had spent 2 years to develop the first car ever privately built. I would imagine there was quite a stir when the first car pulled up to the theater and had to park alongside the horses.

      --
      No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!
    4. Re:Wish them luck! by delibes · · Score: 1

      I just read that as shooting a hobbits rocket into space is just cool. Yup. Sure is.

      --
      This is not a sig
    5. Re:Wish them luck! by JessLeah · · Score: 1

      Shooting a hobbit's rocket into space?

      --
      Honey, I shrunk the Cygwin
  19. Touch down... by javatips · · Score: 1

    I just hope that the launch site will be really far away from any civilised area.

    If the rocket climb that high at the wrong angle, they will suffer a major blow if they blow up someone when the cargo touch down a lot farter than predicted.

    1. Re:Touch down... by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      After a chinese rocket came down on a nearby town and killed thousands of people, that didn't slow them down much. They just said only a dozen people died, and got on with things.

      I'm sure this group can do the same if something bad happens.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    2. Re:Touch down... by DAldredge · · Score: 1

      Can you provide a link to the accident you are talking about?

      Thanks.

    3. Re:Touch down... by Unnngh! · · Score: 1
      A few American hobbyists can do what an entire government with years' experience suppressing its people can do as far as cover-ups go?

      Umm...yeah--no.

    4. Re:Touch down... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Real TV shows the smuggled-out video every once and awhile in re-runs. A Chinese rocket crashed on an apartment complex, but the "offical" death toll was only around six. The video shows an entire section of the city destroyed.

    5. Re:Touch down... by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      Like the AC said, It was on a TV show called "Real TV". Sorry I don't remember many more details, other than images of an area at least the size of a city block completely decimated.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    6. Re:Touch down... by other_things_to_do · · Score: 1

      The FAA people will do their absolute best to be sure one of these craft don't hit anything but dirt and plants. For a shot of this altitude the FAA has the last word on the launch. If they so much as suspect there someone will be down range, that the weather might change, or that they just don't feel like letting the guy launch then it's a no go. The FAA won't risk a thing just for a bunch of "hobbyists". There's a reason they do these shots out at Black Rock, there isn't anything of economic or political value that can be hit for many, many miles around.

      Having been associated with some folks who are trying for their own amature space shot I can attest that it is by the grace of the FAA that one of these rockets can get off the ground. In the face of all the other restrictions placed on our lives I congratulate the FAA for allowing these guys to launch. Thank you!

      Lee

    7. Re:Touch down... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We're launching from the Black Rock Desert in Nevada

    8. Re:Touch down... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I just hope that the launch site will be really far away from any civilised area

      No problem: they are expecting it to fall in the USA.

  20. Damn by Prince+Vegeta+SSJ4 · · Score: 2, Funny
    I thought it said "Rocket to Carry Spam Radio into space"

    I thought were sure to create even extra terrestrial enemies if were gonna start spamming space for crisake

    1. Re:Damn by stratjakt · · Score: 1

      I thought it said "Red Rocket To Blow its Ham into Your Face!"

      yuk yuk yuk, its funny cuz we cant read!

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
  21. Good Luck by ag1t · · Score: 1

    I like it when I see things like this. We float packages here alot of time up on balloons. It gives everybody and oppertunity to try out their engineering skills.

  22. Okay, it's officially time... by Myself · · Score: 4, Informative

    ...to get my license ;)

    On that note, hams and electronics geeks in the midwest should note that it's time for Dayton Hamvention this weekend!

    Holy shit, this is cool even if it's very suborbital. I wonder how many years it'll be until the amsat launches are truly amateur-done :)

    1. Re:Okay, it's officially time... by Xenith · · Score: 1

      They've already had a few suborbital launches. This is their first orbital vehicle. (Second attempt :)

      --

      Never argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
      -Xenith
    2. Re:Okay, it's officially time... by Xenith · · Score: 1

      Silly me.

      I must correct myself. They aren't actually going into orbit. :)

      They're only going to the edge of space and back.

      --

      Never argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
      -Xenith
  23. Bah, amateur space enthusiasts... by Black+Parrot · · Score: 5, Funny


    The amateur anti-missle defense club will try to shoot it down.

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    1. Re:Bah, amateur space enthusiasts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The amateur anti-missle defense club will try to shoot it down.

      The 3 black vans parked outside your condo, and that knock on your door, are the VIAGRA (Violent Amateur Grammarists Association) coming to get you...

    2. Re:Bah, amateur space enthusiasts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You point out a misspelling as a grammar issue with a totally malformed and completely grammatically incorrect sentence of your own. Kudos to you.

  24. Sounds cool to me by bigredmed · · Score: 3, Informative

    I realize that Ham radio seems passe' to the "basement full of Linux boxes" people, but its cool and this project, while rather unlikely to completely succeed would be cool to listen in on. For those of us who go outside, Ham is a great source of communication, as many people live where cell phone towers don't and many of the really cool places are not where cell phone towers are.

  25. Why? by slycer9 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Why is the /. crowd so anti-amateur radio?
    It's like, the original geekdom, and while a LOT of the geezers out there are boring as shit to talk to, there's a LOT of cool stuff going on.

    Tons of digital modes, (interfacing comps with radios), satellite coms, EME, meteor bounce.

    Really, it's just confusing to me that as a group, /. can still talk about how great pac-man was (with a straight face), and yet totally trash Amateur Radio.

    You want retro roots? THERE"S your roots.

    --
    Don't park drunk, accidents cause people.
    1. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ham

    2. Re:Why? by LouSir · · Score: 1

      I don't think people are down on Ham radio but why launch one into space for 60 seconds and watch it crash? If I think it's stupid to launch a mouse into space for a minute it does not mean I hate mice. Lou Sir

    3. Re:Why? by dr_dank · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Really, it's just confusing to me that as a group, /. can still talk about how great pac-man was (with a straight face), and yet totally trash Amateur Radio.

      I've had my license for ten years next month. I'm not on the air much anymore. Aside from emergency communications and such, the internet has ham radio beat hands down. Packet is STILL capped at 9600 bps as it was when I first got my ticket. Worldwide communications can take place easily over AIM, IRC and the like (no reliance on sunspots, can cuss and use encryption to your hearts content).

      I think there is a great educational value in ham radio, but the kids (who are the new blood to keep the hobby going forward) don't seem to be gravitating towards it in the face of such competition.

      Current hams, please feel free to correct me or debate the above.

      --
      Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
    4. Re:Why? by hypnagogue · · Score: 2, Informative
      Packet is STILL capped at 9600 bps
      That's why hams are inducting 802.11b/g into Part 97 with the aid of 2.4gHz amplifiers. Just make sure you have WEP disabled, and are on the right channels.
      --
      Liberty you never use is liberty you lose.
    5. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure but their is no challenge in using the internet and, thus, no reward nor satisfaction. Plus their are no trolls and crapflooders in ham radio.

    6. Re:Why? by Rorschach1 · · Score: 4, Informative
      Capped at 9600 bps? Hardly. Check out BayCom's USB modem - it does 78.6 kbps standard, 300 kbps max.

      Plus, you can run 802.11b/g with MUCH greater power and range than unlicensed users, provided you stay within the limits of Part 97 operation.

      Yeah, ragchewing is pretty lame when you've got the Internet. Never did much for me in the first place. My primary interest is in AVL, telemetry, and weather applications. The 'net doesn't do you much good when you haven't even got cell phone coverage.

    7. Re:Why? by dr_dank · · Score: 1

      Plus their are no trolls and crapflooders in ham radio.

      You haven't been on a repeater with a jammer on it. :)

      --
      Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
    8. Re:Why? by sipy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Your point appears to me to be that Ham Radio is no longer relevant. et tu, Brute? (You're a ham.) =)

      You just cited emergency communications, and said "aside from [that]". But "that" is one of the original justifications the government gave for creating the amateur radio system in the first place - to provide a mechanism for communications in times of disaster/crisis/where public safety is in jeapordy. This service to the public is still absolutely relevant.

      Just ask the victims of the Oklahoma City bombing, 9/11, any hurricane, most earthquakes, (in USA, Mexico, or even worldwide), and every other natural disaster where the existing communications infrastructure has been compromised (or overwhelmed by users).

      Not to mention - you'll see Amateur Radio operators helping out at every Cancer Walk/Run, March-of-Dimes event, (etc), and the list goes on.

      Treating Amateur Radio as irrelevant because it created, fostered, and/or promoted the technologies we all now enjoy (Auto Patch => Cell Phone, FAX => Telephone-based FAX, RTTY/BAUDOT => ASCII, GPRS => GPS handhelds, 220Mhz comm => Business Band, Walkie Talkies + Repeaters => Police/Fire/Ambulance trunking radio systems.....) is disingenuous. Many of the very technologies that you've cited above were either created, fostered, or promoted to the masses by Amateur Radio.

      Ham radio is not irrelevant. In fact, the exact opposite is true - it's actually way ahead of it's time!

      Look for the Next Big Thing(tm) to start now, and first, in the Amateur Radio world.

      - Mike S.
      Licensed since 1978

    9. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      For something as geeky as a basement full of Linux boxes, see all the homebrew gear being built at www.amqrp.org. They have basements full of electronic testing equipment, puters running Spice, antenna modeling, building communication equipment and test equpipment that fits into Altoid tins to turkey basting pans. Totally cool to build your own gear. Linux and ham radio are to me both hobbies that come and go at different times of life, both are fun to do.

    10. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've been inactive for about 5 years, and licensed for about 14. Getting back into VHF radio is fun, now there are things like EchoLink which link repeaters using the Net. AROIP (Amateur Radio Over IP).

      Fun.

    11. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How else will you get the telemetry of the rocket? speed, altitude, etc...

      You need a radio no matter what.

    12. Re:Why? by golgotha007 · · Score: 1

      is a license actually needed anymore?

      i was under the impression that talking on these frequencies without your callsign was just asking for trouble.

      however, i notice that many people use HAM without licenses without any problems at all. just take a look at all the hangglider and paraglider folks.

    13. Re:Why? by Xenith · · Score: 1

      This launch isn't about the ham gear on board. It's about being the first civilian space launch. The ham radio gear is just for tracking the rocket, as well as a few other fun things (like live amateur TV broadcast)

      --

      Never argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
      -Xenith
    14. Re:Why? by lommer · · Score: 1

      I dunno, I think that what you cited, educational value, is the PRINCIPAL reason why we should try to get more people involved in HAM radio. I'm in the engineering program at UBC (Vancouver, Canada) and belong to the UBC Amateur Radio Society (they're gonna kill me for linking that :-). I always find that the guys there are pursuing interesting projects, that I get a great opportunity to learn useful stuff outside the classroom in a fun and practically applicable setting, and that the whole community is full of incredibly interesting people. I find it's a lot easier to find someone interesting to talk to on an interesting subject in the HAM community, mostly because you don't have to wade through all the crap and idiots on the 'net.

  26. Only 100km? Whew... Well my $1000 is safe. by Baldrson · · Score: 4, Insightful
    For a moment there I was concerned I'd have to fork over $1000 for The Bowery Award For Amateur Rocketry but that's for 200km and this is only 100km. It is, however, not too hard to get from 100km to to 200km given the lack of air resistance at that altitude.

    PS: That award offer will have been outstanding for a decade come a year from this coming fall.

    PPS: Does anyone know why the CATS prize had (and Ansari X-Prize has) time limits?

    --
    Seastead this.
  27. After checking out their photo... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I reckon that's the closest these three amigo's are gonna get to space travel: www.remote.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/05/12/2/Rock etBoys04-1-lrg.jpg

  28. You are just pissed... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    that someone nerdier than you is doing this.

    My Dad is an Extra licensed Ham, and there ain't no bigger nerd in the world than a Ham.

  29. You sound like my girlfriend :( by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 3, Funny
    Sure the thing can blow up. Or fail to ignite. Or fallover. All happened to other launches around the world no matter who did them.

    But apart from the joke value it would be real fun if they succeeded. Not truly important but nice to know that space exploration has become so "easy" that individuals can put a payload up there without needing a superpower to fund the project.

    Good luck.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:You sound like my girlfriend :( by yowi · · Score: 1

      The problem is , They're trying to go fast, power without speed is the answer!!!

      http://imdb.com/title/tt0057328/

      --
      Why don't the headlines ever read 'Psychic wins lottery'
  30. You insensitive clod... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    We Atlanteans get all of our pizza by submarine!

  31. Good point- by purduephotog · · Score: 3, Informative

    I've chased an Estes rocket launched with 2D's in stages nearly 1 mile before it came back to earth, and I don't believe it got over 3500Feet (damn air currents).

    I cant imagine what a 62 mile arc would give it ;)

    1. Re:Good point- by Wakkow · · Score: 1

      I remember launching one with a single C or D engine in what seemed like calm conditions.. After running after it for 10 minutes and finally losing sight of it off to the distance, I gave up. Those things sure drift.

    2. Re:Good point- by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now this brings back found memories of my child hood. One of my favorite hobbies was flying model rockets. After a few flights with the proper engine the next thing to do was to plug an oversize engine in the rocket. Many a time they went completely out of site, one I found years later in a tree while hunting. It was probally close to a mile away.

      I'm not sure how popular model rocketry is now a days but it sure was fun when I was 12 or 13. Actually it was fun for the whole neighborhood, the old retired couple down the road would buy us engines just to see the rockets fly.

      Thanks
      dave

  32. Avionics Team Leader Eric Knight quoted: by operagost · · Score: 1

    All your space are belong to us. Over!

    --

    Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  33. On-board Color Camera by Mike+Morgan · · Score: 1

    Sure hope someone posts the video stream from the Amateur TV telemetry. I don't have a 2.4GHz receiver handy.

    One of the best on-board color camera videos I've ever seen was that of the MER-A "Spirit" launch. This site has the video.

    --
    -USR1
    1. Re:On-board Color Camera by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I might be able to get a copy on my site (here's the link directly to the article about the part of the rocket I made): http://homepage.mac.com/karsten/Tech%20Ramblings/C 838486968/E1870053943/index.html

  34. What you don't know... by ParadoxicalPostulate · · Score: 2, Funny


    Ah, but what the public doesn't know is that the government is also testing the Star Wars Alpha Module on May 17th.

    Looks to me like the CSXT will earn the honors of having the first vessel destroyed in space combat.

  35. Caution Rant mode is on! by KD7JZ · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What a bunch of damn whiners. These are folks that are basically doing the Slashdot thing (learning, exploring, trying). Yes it amateur radio, but it is telemetry data and full motion color video. Hurray for them trying!

    1. Re:Caution Rant mode is on! by stratjakt · · Score: 2, Funny

      I thought the "Slashdot thing" was whining.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
  36. Re:Huh ? Why ? by Shakrai · · Score: 4, Funny
    Why a Ham radio

    Didn't you get the press release? They need to achieve an altitude of at least 50 miles in order for the broadcast to be heard over the interference of your local powerline broadband provider. Space has nothing to do with it.

    In all seriousness I wonder what the impacts on a mission like this would be? Yet something else to consider in our BPL debate. Queue up the hams (I'm one of them) and the "broadband at any cost to the rest of the world" arguments!

    --
    I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
    We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  37. Cue Beavis and Butthead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Huh huh... you said 'farter'.

    1. Re:Cue Beavis and Butthead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you said blow

  38. Re:I cannot contain my excitement by stratjakt · · Score: 3, Funny

    After several launches and recoveries, I thought it would be a good idea to launch my hamster, Insomnia. When I found him, he looked like an overcooked waffle.

    I dont think I realized until just then the implications of removing the parachute to create the hamsters "quarters".

    --
    I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
  39. Re:Only 100km? Whew... Well my $1000 is safe. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You dont have $1000, douche.

  40. A Unique Recovery Plan by Eagle5596 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Actually the site says they intend for the recovery to be parachuteless, they decided to see what the effect of such a tall rocket would be if it impacted Lindon, Utah at several thousand miles per hour. Darl McBride will be waiting at the landing site with a target strapped to his forhead to aid in the experiment.

    1. Re:A Unique Recovery Plan by Uma+Thurman · · Score: 1

      And, if it hits the target, Taco Bell is giving away free tacos to everyone in America!

      --
      This is America, damnit. Speak Spanish!
    2. Re:A Unique Recovery Plan by shadowbearer · · Score: 1

      Darl McBride will be waiting at the landing site with a target strapped to his forhead to aid in the experiment.

      You misspelled homing beacon.

      Hey, I can dream, can't I?

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    3. Re:A Unique Recovery Plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wouldn't that be " A UNIX Recovery Plan" ?

  41. Next step: amateur Sputnik! by b1t+r0t · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Russia launched the first satellite in October 1957. The 50th anniversary is less than 3 1/2 years away.

    It would be great if someone could get an amateur rocket to put a satellite into orbit in October 2007 to celebrate the anniversary. At this rate, it might even be possible.

    --

    --
    "Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
    "Open source is evil." - Microsoft
    1. Re:Next step: amateur Sputnik! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not even close yet. The R-7 rocket that launched Sputnik weight 280 tons and was 28m long.

    2. Re:Next step: amateur Sputnik! by BrodyVess · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Of course, the CSS Hunley was turned by a hand cranked screw and took 9 men in a 35 foot submarine to sink a wooden warship. A commited hobbiest could probably build a ship with the same capability with a crew of 1, an electric motor, and clock it in at 8 or 10 feet.

      That being said, I doubt that if we re-launched sputnik today it would require the same size rocket. Engine efficiencies have increased by several orders of magnitude.

      --
      No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!
    3. Re:Next step: amateur Sputnik! by b1t+r0t · · Score: 1

      Sputnik the satellite also weighed 183 pounds. I think with modern technology we could reduce the payload weight a tad. A little less payload, a lot less rocket.

      --

      --
      "Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
      "Open source is evil." - Microsoft
    4. Re:Next step: amateur Sputnik! by HeghmoH · · Score: 1

      Actually, engine efficiencies have barely changed since the 60s. If it required hundreds of tons of rocket to get a satellite of size X into orbit then, it requires hundreds (possibly fewer hundreds, but not even one order of magnitude less) of tons of rocket to get a satellite of size X into orbit today.

      --
      Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
    5. Re:Next step: amateur Sputnik! by p3d0 · · Score: 1
      That's a bit like saying "I just learned how to ride my bike to the Bonnevile salt flats. Next step: break the sound barrier!"

      What they are doing is reaching 100km with zero velocity. What an orbital flight requires is 7km/s velocity. In fact, to sustain an orbit also requires several times that altitude to eliminate atmospheric drag.

      Having said that, I am not a rocket scientist, so I could be wrong.

      --
      Patrick Doyle
      I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
  42. as long as it isn't a SPAM Radio Payload... by demonbug · · Score: 0, Troll

    I don't care.

  43. Re:Huh ? Why ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Didn't you get the press release?

    You must be new here.

  44. APRS by Eagle5596 · · Score: 3, Informative

    APRS: Automatic Position Reporting System. It's a great way to use a ham radio to connect two devices together, especially for telemetry data.

  45. Why a solid fuel engine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Didn't Von Braun learn that liquid engines are far more controlable? At that was 60-70 years ago.

    1. Re:Why a solid fuel engine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Robert Goddard actually, remember von Braun bought all of Goddard's patents for 10 cents a page.

    2. Re:Why a solid fuel engine by other_things_to_do · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Solid Engines = Cheap & Simple
      Liquid Engines = Expensive & Complicated

    3. Re:Why a solid fuel engine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Liquid O2/Solid paraffin wax = super cheap + controlable

    4. Re:Why a solid fuel engine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually *turbopumped* liquid engines are expensive
      and complicated.

      Using pressure-feed techniques, liquid engines are
      only minimally more complicated than hybrids.
      Various amateurs have been building simple
      pressure-fed liquid engines for decades with
      great success.

  46. HAM payload?? Why not 802.11g? by ironhide · · Score: 1

    They should put a giant gigawatt 802.11g WAP+switch+repeater in the sky.

  47. Splashdown at My Place? by daemous · · Score: 1

    Hmm. Am I 26 miles west of them...?

    I wonder how precise their reentry plan is. We don't want N.Korea thinking anything is up. Actually, we don't want SAC thinking anything is up... ;-)

    1. Re:Splashdown at My Place? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SAC doesn't exist anymore.

    2. Re:Splashdown at My Place? by prosys · · Score: 1

      Hmmm... If SAC got twitchy it would put a whole new slant on 'friendly fire' wouldn't it...

  48. Re:Only 100km? Whew... Well my $1000 is safe. by Sylver+Dragon · · Score: 1

    PPS: Does anyone know why the CATS prize had (and Ansari X-Prize has) time limits?

    Have you ever worked with engineers that don't have a deadline? Even the one's who do can't deliver before the project is several months overdue.

    --
    Necessity is the mother of invention.
    Laziness is the father.
  49. Re:Only 100km? Whew... Well my $1000 is safe. by Chris+Tucker · · Score: 1

    "PPS: Does anyone know why the CATS prize had (and Ansari X-Prize has) time limits?"

    In the case of the CATS prize, turns out nobody wanted All Your Base, due to the federal, stae and local taxes. Not to mention the shipping costs.

    So nobody entered.

    --
    Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
  50. Re:Only 100km? Whew... Well my $1000 is safe. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I don't know about CATS, but the X-prize (before Ansari stepped up) was funded by insurance -- basically, the X Prize foundation found an insurance company willing to gamble that no one would be successful and the prize wouldn't be awarded. The time limit was necessary before the insurers would assume the risk.

  51. Issues regarding other orbiting satellites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Uh, people? How exactly are they allowed to just launch a satellite into space? A minor miscalculation might just knock a few government satellites out of orbit, among the least of our worries.

    Unless I'm talking nonsense here and they got permission to use a certain orbit.

    1. Re:Issues regarding other orbiting satellites by scharkalvin · · Score: 1

      They are NOT going into orbit. This is a sub-orbital flight and it will be many miles below the lowest satelite.

    2. Re:Issues regarding other orbiting satellites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And throwing objects into sub-orbit is any less dangerous? :p

  52. My first thought upon reading the title. by 955301 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Now there is a guy who's fed up with being a HAM radio operator.

    --
    You are checking your backups, aren't you?
  53. oh yeah? by Phanatik · · Score: 1

    "If successful it would mark the first amateur rocket launch into space." What about NASA?

    1. Re:oh yeah? by tanksalot · · Score: 1

      "If successful it would mark the first amateur rocket launch into space." What about NASA?

      NASA lost its amateur status long ago. In fact, it was so long ago that it never had it to begin with.

      --
      "I am not denying the existence of stupidity, or of stupid people." - phyruxus
    2. Re:oh yeah? by Xenith · · Score: 1

      In this instance they mean amateur being "without government funding". NASA is *definately* government funded. :)

      --

      Never argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
      -Xenith
    3. Re:oh yeah? by ikluft · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Amateur would be more precisely described as not getting paid for your time. BTW, unpaid doesn't mean unprofessional.

      But you've got the right point that this launch is especially significant in that there was no government funding for development or operations. So if it succeeds (as we all hope it will) then it'll be the first suborbital space launch without funding from any government in the history of the world.

      Let's go make history!

  54. one small step for nerds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    one giant leap for shut-ins

  55. -1 Offtopic, but.... by Hooptie · · Score: 1
    Him my fat leathery arse to kiss I told. -- Angry Yoda

    That doesn't sound like an Angry Yoda, that just sounds German.

    Hooptie

    --
    "Heavens, it appears that my weewee has been stricken with rigor mortis!" -- Stewie Griffin
  56. Its tight these days but I do have it. by Baldrson · · Score: 1
    Hell, even a computer programmer surviving as a window washer could come up with $1000 if they really had to.

    It's all a matter of priorities.

    Where's _your_ award announcement?

    --
    Seastead this.
  57. What next by SYSS+Mouse · · Score: 1

    A backyard satellite orbiting in space launched by amateur rocket?

  58. Cheaper, but still fun by Rorschach1 · · Score: 3, Informative
    Rockets are great, but for getting to the 'edge of space' and staying there for longer periods, balloons are a lot easier and cheaper, though they can still be pretty challenging.

    Check out Edge of Space Sciences and Arizona Near Space Research for some good examples.

    Balloons are a great opportunity to experience the engineering challenges of launching, tracking, and communicating with a payload under harsh conditions without the risk of things blowing up.

    I haven't built my own yet, but telemetry encoders (site down at the moment, freaking DSL) I've designed have flown on a couple of flights, and I've got a K-size cylinder of helium in the garage begging to be put to use, so it's probably only a matter of time.

  59. Re:Only 100km? Whew... Well my $1000 is safe. by Baldrson · · Score: 1
    So have the Ansari's extended the X-Prize deadline?

    If not, what did the Ansari's do exactly?

    --
    Seastead this.
  60. Redundant Chutes by purduephotog · · Score: 1

    My redundant chutes were always the 'catch it in the air' approach. It worked, for the most part, at least until my little sister tried once.

    She ran and when it looked like she was about to catch it... she balked.

    Big Bertha lawn darted 1 foot into the soft, Indiana soil. The engine mount now served as a nose cone.

    Oh well. Maybe 2nd chance will come out with something a bit smaller ;)

  61. PIGS... IN... SPAACE! by CamShaft · · Score: 2, Funny

    Jim Henson clearly owns the IP to space pork, I'm sure his estate's attorneys will be contacting these Ham Rocketeers soon

  62. Re:Huh ? Why ? by tanksalot · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    "Huh? Why?" is right, like how is this post interesting, unless trolls are suddenly interesting.

    --
    "I am not denying the existence of stupidity, or of stupid people." - phyruxus
  63. Re:I cannot contain my excitement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, gee... The rocket engine has a parachte ejection charge at the top. Holy shit, I was building (and launching) rockets at the age of five, and I understood how this worked.

    What the hell did you think made the chute come out (and why you and to put anti-flammable tissue in front of it)???

    Poor damn rat.

  64. If you can do better... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    If you can do better, do it. Put up or shut up.

    Jesus H. Christ, every time Hams do something nifty, dozens of /. weirdoes start complaining "why are HAMS doing this?"

    Haven't you all figured out by now that Ham radio ops, by their very nature, are experimenters? As opposed to the average IRC-babbling, first-post posting, videogame-tapping MTV slashdroid?

    I don't know of any noncommercial organization that has as many communications satellites in space (see AMSAT).

  65. Re:Huh ? Why ? by uberdave · · Score: 1

    The first amateur rocket to reach space is not interesting?

    --
    "I'm not impatient. I just hate waiting." - My Dad
  66. About the launch site... by ikluft · · Score: 5, Informative
    I talked with some of CSXT's Avionics Team about what would happen when this went up on Slashdot. And here it is. We figured it's inevitable that some people will try to show up even though it's short notice and a really inhospitable location.

    Bear in mind that the launch site is far away from populated areas on purpose. Over there in the deep desert, that presents a survival issue for anyone who comes unprepared. There is no city infrastructure that most people are used to - it's a wilderness. If you wander off and get lost and stuck, you may survive for days but not be discovered for weeks. That's why you should take this seriously.

    Cell phones do not work out there. It's well over an hour's drive from the nearest cell site. Amateur Radio and satellite phones are the only reliable communications out there. If you don't have those, don't wander away from the paved roads and the launch site.

    So if I haven't scared you away yet, here's some info that hopefully will help you survive out there. Remember that in the desert, bring your own drinking water - and lots of it. I have a web page about the Black Rock Desert. I have a page with a minimal camping checklist. Even if you're planning to stay in a motel, bring enough camping gear to survive overnight and wait for a rescue if you get stuck. (Overnight temperatures are usually in the 20's and 30's this time of year.) But don't go wandering off where no one knows to look for you. And lastly, see our page about "How to avoid needing a rescue at Black Rock", which we wrote after participating in many rescues of stranded people out there.

    I'm going to be out there with the Stratofox Aerospace Tracking & Recovery Team. We consider it an enormous privilege that CSXT has invited us to assist at their launch.

    1. Re:About the launch site... by __aapopf3474 · · Score: 1
      I wonder if large rocket launches will be permitted on the Black Rock Desert after a 1,450 megawatt coal power plant is built 6 miles from Gerlach.

      For comparison, the Four Corners power plant is 2,040 megawatts, and the San Juan plant is 1,600 megawatts. These plants and others have smogged the views around the Grand Canyon.

      Too bad the clear air around Gerlach will be a thing of the past.

  67. apogee? by ldspartan · · Score: 1

    Why deploy a drogue at apogee? To get the rocket into a nose-up posture?

    Interesting...

    1. Re:apogee? by terrymr · · Score: 1

      To stabalize the descent, and lessen the risk of damage to the recovery system when the main is deployed.

    2. Re:apogee? by taniwha · · Score: 1

      so that it comes in slowish (not balistic) you don't want to be close to mach when you pop the chute - it'll shred. Also you want something to stabilize the descent so it's not spinning too much when the main chute comes out (to avoid tangling)

  68. Reminds me of Monty Python by MonkeyCookie · · Score: 1

    I makes me think of Monty Python's "The Quest for the Holy Grail" where that nobleman with the singing son kept building castles in a swamp.

    They kept collapsing, so he kept building on the ruins of the previous ones until he succeeded. :)

    Then he wanted his son to marry the woman with huge......tracts of land.

  69. Re:Huh ? Why ? by tanksalot · · Score: 1

    The first amateur rocket in space = Interesting
    Suggesting to send a Ham sandwich instead of a Ham Radio != Interesting

    --
    "I am not denying the existence of stupidity, or of stupid people." - phyruxus
  70. Re:I cannot contain my excitement by rspress · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Actually Ham radio has been using TV, GPS data mapping, Packet and TCI/IP for many years.

    Packet is like the Ham equivalent of the internet with its own email system, file downloads and chat all via the computer and over radio. I was doing IM on packet long before there was IM for the internet.

    With the APRS system, people all over the world can trace the exact position of the rocket via GPS over radio in real time via a GUI with map overlays. It can also help locate the payload when it returns. Something a bug or hamster would have a hard time doing.....unless it was connected to Richard Gere.

    Ham radio may sound kinda dorky but a lot of internet tech has come from hams and visa-versa.

  71. Re:I cannot contain my excitement by amix · · Score: 1
    I was doing IM on packet long before there was IM for the internet.

    I doubt so. Fact is, most people are not aware of the classic communications programs. One of them would be "Talk", which allows you to chit-chat with anyone who has a real account (user@machine.network.domain).All you do is

    #> talk user@host

    This not only was a life-chat program, but some incarnations would allow to leave messages. I must admit, that I know only more modern incarnations, that came with answer-machine and what ever.

    Just later came those IM systems which use a central server due to the dynamic IP connections of ordinary users.

    --
    Hello?? Fred?! Is this you?
  72. Re:I cannot contain my excitement by rspress · · Score: 1

    Which was about the same command as connect kc6mus>w6go. Where w6go was a digipeater and kc6mus was the person you wish to talk to.
    These digipeaters could show a list of users or recently heard stations. A digipeater is a radio station that repeats digital transmissions using a terminal node controller, basically a radio modem. By connecting to a digipeater you can view a list of all other digipeaters it can hear and so on and so forth. You could connect clear across the united states and Canada using radios made for only local transmissions, VHF and UHF. Using High Frequency radios you could connect to stations around the world.
    If the person you connected to was not around you could leave a message in the mail system contained in the TNC. This mail system was different from the more internet like packet BBS's.

  73. Re:I cannot contain my excitement by rspress · · Score: 2, Informative

    A good primer can be found here:
    http://www.choisser.com/packet/part01.html

  74. Re:Only 100km? Whew... Well my $1000 is safe. by leehwtsohg · · Score: 1

    I don't know anything about this particular story, but any gamble needs two sides to provide money. As in:

    "I'll be willing to pay 1000000$ against YOUR 1000$ that no faster-than-light travel will be found in the next 20 years."

  75. Re:Scientific Value by other_things_to_do · · Score: 1

    Yes, it does have scientific value. There a lot of small research payloads which could benefit from easier and cheaper access to the fringes of the atmosphere.

    Lee

  76. Re:Only 100km? Whew... Well my $1000 is safe. by jayteedee · · Score: 1
    Air resistance is insignificant compared to the power of the force (force of gravity in this case). For a rocket going straight up, you loose about 350-450 ft/s of final velocity due to drag (all drag, as in the entire boost in the atmosphere). Gravity on the other hand accounts for 3000 ft/s and it doesn't stop (9.6 m/s^2 versus 9.8 m/s^2 on the ground).


    For an orbital insertion type trajectory you get 3,500 ft/s - 4,000 ft/s of gravity loss and drag losses are in the ballpark of 700 ft/s - 1,200 ft/s. The Space Shuttle has about 5,600 ft/s total loss (primarily gravity).

    --
    Religion and science are both 90% crap..but that doesn't negate the other 10%.
  77. homer's waiting on the ISS by Transcendent · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Mmmm.... hhaammm..."

  78. Damn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All of these three guys at the entire HAM.

  79. No, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We're impressed. But they're fat and we're entitled to make fun of fat people.

    Jesus told me so.

    Oh come on. Bush tells you jesus told him to invade iraq... you believe him, but I tell you jesus told me to make fun of fat people, and you don't believe me?

  80. Private Rocket into Space by JerryLs · · Score: 1

    How did they handle the part about it being illegal to launch an amateur rocket into space?

    --
    Ad Astra Per Asper
    1. Re:Private Rocket into Space by EmagGeek · · Score: 1

      Because it's not illegal to launch an amateur rocket into space....

  81. Re:Huh ? Why ? by paganizer · · Score: 1

    I think that should read the first legal, licensed amateur rocket to reach space.
    I knows what I knows.

    --
    Why, yes, I AM a Pagan Libertarian.
  82. When pigs fly by theblacksun · · Score: 2, Funny

    It's just a little airborn, it's still good! It's still good! It's gone Homer.

    --
    Ignorance kills, complacency kills, hatred kills, but usually not the ones guilty of them.
  83. Actually by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually it is SPAM-radio, as it is "in a can".

  84. Re:I cannot contain my excitement by amix · · Score: 1

    Very interesting. And thanks for the link thereafter.

    --
    Hello?? Fred?! Is this you?
  85. Orbital Mechanics 101 by ikluft · · Score: 2, Informative
    Just a rule of thumb - any object which is launched at less than 17,000 mph will not achieve orbit, and will fall back to the ground. But even on a suborbital flight, the faster it goes, the farther away it can land.

    The reason for this is because an orbit is where your rate of escape from the Earth equals your rate of fall. So anything which is in orbit effectively falls in an endless circle around the world.

    This is true of any object in space - larger objects have stronger gravity which increases the rate of fall, requiring faster speeds to orbit them. i.e the Earth takes a year to orbit the Sun, by definition, but covers enormous distance in that time. But orbits can be slower around smaller objects like Mars or the Moon.

    So even in orbit you haven't escaped gravity. You'd have to go about 25,000 mph to escape the Earth's gravity, which would just put you in orbit around the Sun. So gravity is always a factor.

    Anyway, back to the subject of the CSXT launch... The press release said that CSXT's rocket will go 4000 mph, better than any previous amateur launch. So since that's less than 17,000 mph, it's a suborbital launch and it will fall back to the ground. It'll land less than 30 miles away from the launch site.

    I'll be part of the search team who goes to retrieve it.

  86. Pigs in space. by Willeh · · Score: 1

    Strap Scott Richter to this baby, and voila: SPAM-Radio! (would make a nice splash on the ground also.)

    --
    Will wank off Linus Torvalds for fame.
  87. actually by Beer_Smurf · · Score: 1

    Actually the FAA has regulation in place for just such an occasion.
    http://www.risingup.com/fars/info/101-index.shtml