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Metal Velcro
RotJ writes "British scientists have developed technology that can grow structures up to 2 millimetres high and 0.2 millimetres in diameter on metal surfaces. Dubbed Surfi-Sculpt, it 'will act like ultra-strong Velcro to form much tougher joints between metals and lightweight composite materials'."
Whenever I read one of these articles about a process requiring X, Y and Z to all do novel things A,B and C under strict conditions, I always think 'how are you going to commercialise that?! Chip fabrication was a case in point - I guess where there's a multi-billion dollar will, there's a way...
:-)
This process requires lasers to melt the metal and tease the structures into being and yet it can do 100 cm^2 in 10 seconds... That's just not intuitive [grin]. Kudos to the researchers - us Brits have always been jealous of the Yanks for inventing the zip anyway
Simon
Physicists get Hadrons!
In fact I saw Tom Araya wearing velcro hi-tops the last time Slayer toured.
Well we can now that everything in society is being held together only by Velcro :P
Join the TWIT army now!
Dubbed Surfi-Sculpt
This is why British stuff doesn't do well in America. The name sounds too much like "Stiffy-Sculpt".
The preceding message was based on actual events. Only the names, locations and events have been changed.
OUCH!!! I really wouldnt want to accidentally sit on that stuff. Think cactus spines that refuse to come out.
Did anybody else notice a striking resemblence between those 'rods' and some other 'rods' that ~50% on the planet's population have? *cough*
To make a projection, researchers focus a beam of electrons in a vacuum chamber at the point on a metal surface where they want it to grow. The metal melts at the centre of the beam. When the beam is moved sideways, surface tension pulls the molten metal into a droplet.
Sounds like me with a soldering iron
they are using small penises to fasten metal together? back in the pile!
It will be interesting to see whether or not this actually makes it into production anytime in the near future (or even in our lifetime). I hope so.
Q is alive! Q is alive!
Regards,
Moneypenny
Simpy
That's pretty impressive, even if it's not the hook-and-eye structure that the word "velcro" first brought to mind.
I'm sure there must be other applications besides bonding that would benefit from increased surface area. Heatsinks, maybe?
The kids on the playground are going to be sooo jealous of my new metal velcroe shoes. Just like they were with my pumps!
That you can pull it apart?
If the bond on this stuff is so very very strong, then what advantages does it lend over, say, epoxy?
Gamers Europe - Gaming News. Reviews.
Since I don't enjoy looking stupid, I'll wait for metal shoelaces, thank you very much.
I used 4-5 pumps for mine.
The preceding message was based on actual events. Only the names, locations and events have been changed.
Did you look at the pictures?
You can have a strong bonded metal velcro, but there could still has a weaker link somewhere along the chain of materials, the ones that are not bonded as tightly as the metal velcro.
To illustrate, imagine a piece of melted cheese is the velcro for 2 pieces of pastry in a burger, then the weakest link is between the pastry and the bread.
Hey, that's my password you are typing
Up to 10x the surface area of the sheet of metal? Sounds like it could make for a great low-profile heatsink. Of course, development costs could be prohibitive, but still...
This process requires lasers to melt the metal and tease the structures into being... Sounds like wielding or soldering, isn't it?
that the attachment of e.g. fibers in a composite to the metal protrusions does not depend on the bonding mechanism of a glue. The glue may age and fail, but the mechanical entanglement will not.
Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
airport metal detectors...
it's not like dragging your finger through clay though
when you use the beam, then drag it, the metal will accumulate near the start point, not where the beam is
in all, it's a pretty cool application of physics, really, and deserves this patent
at least they're not trying to patent electrons
www.necroticobsession.com
... with this product.... or is it a stupid human effort to increase teh use of rustolem?
Well, it *has* to be permanent. If it was easy to pull apart, it would easily fall apart. And the article does say that it goes together like velcro.. not that it pull apart like velcro.
Useless joing metal to metal however - we already have many faster and cheaper ways of welding for that, which would be much stronger than this technology.
I imagine with this technology, the cost of car repairs (if it was applied to cars) would increase, since you wouldn't be able to do it at home. And of course, the manufacturer would say "you cannot just glue or rivet the two parts together, it wont be as strong and we will not warranty the vehicle"
"Dance says his early tests show that these joints will last far longer than current composite-metal joints, which are held together by adhesives."
>That's all this is, is using an electron-beam welder to slide a little metal around, instead of a finger to move a little clay around.
Exactly, that's all there is to it, which means there's nothing to prevent others from using some other sculpting technology, such as finger movement, to create the same effect.
Or, if they want to save development time and money, they can use the same technology but compensate the inventor via patent royalties.
Seems quite reasonable to me.
They say that they can get structures up to 2mm high and .2mm across, but that's under the influence of gravity. I wonder if this process would work in zero-G, and perhaps work better to create longer structures or different shapes for even stronger bonds?
This is very good news for composite fiber development. While composite has been exceptionally strong and light, it's difficult to find reliable ways to attach things to it. You basically have to build the fittings into the composite material. "Sticky-metal" fittings might make composites less expensive to use.
...
I RTFA, and this is really sweet and promising technology that'll be in use in only a few years. However, not even babelfish could tell me what "gobsmacked" meant.
-Rob
Marriage doesn't have to suck!
It doesn't "use lasers to melt the metal and tease the structures into being".
The process uses a beam of electrons; a laser is beam of photons. The process relies on surface tension to form the structures; they form on their own and are not "teased" at all.
You are neither interesting nor informative. I was going to mod you down, but because this process has tremendous commercial potential, I decided that it was more important to point out the facts are not in agreement with your summary. You're welcome.
Slashdot is my Mercer Box.
Does whatever a spider can,
Bonds to lightweight
Composites
Or other metal
Surfaces
Watch out!
Here comes the Spidermaaaaaan!
I like to place meaningful quotes in my sig, so people will know that I know what meaningful quotes are.
Literally pulling two Velcro blocks apart can be next to impossible. Usually it's a matter of peeling Velcro apart... which should work here too if one of the bondees (the "composite", presumably) is flexible.
Seeing bad movies only encourages them. Watch responsibly
I love velcro and its ability to stick two things together, but my problem is usually in getting the velcro to stick to the material on the other side. How will this fabulous metal stuff be stuck to whatever surface it will be on?
Did anybody else notice a striking resemblence between those 'rods' and some other 'rods' that ~50% on the planet's population have?
2mm by .25mm? I hope not, because we're all in serious trouble as a species if that's the case.
Please help metamoderate.
The 'teasing' I think is a fair description, since the article itself uses the word to describe the process:
So, in your opinion I may not be either interesting or informative, but I am 50% correct. As were you. You're welcome too.
Simon.
Physicists get Hadrons!
I didn't read the article (oops) but wouldn't a perfect use for this process be to create electronic components that just stick together without the need for any welding or any other kind of bonding?
I have trouble with passwords among other things.
"When we first realised we could do this we were absolutely gobsmacked," Dance says.
Brilliant! Those boffins have really done it now. Just a quick electron scan and Bob's your uncle!
gobsmacked adj. Nothing to do with punching people in the face (although I'm sure that's where it derives from originally), to describe someone as being gobsmacked means they're very surprised or taken aback.
From here.
Although I didn't realize that boffin was somewhat of an insult. That would have been embarrassing, interviewing for a position and referring to your interviewer as a boffin...
-Adam
Won't lead to great airflow.
The important characteristic of a heatsink is the surface area across which air flows. These crannies are small enough that they won't lead to great airflow.
It still should be better than a regular smooth surface on a heatsink.
Normally you would galvanise or paint it in with something water proof, but surly painting it would cover all the hooks up? I know this isn't an issue for stainless steel but there are plenty of other metals.
I don't have the modpoints, but this is damn funny.
I remember reading about this in a science journal back in the 1980's. The root word of "news" is "new", which means "not old". I fail to see how this qualifies.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
This is all fine and dandy untill someone gets a metal dog near it.
Velco + dog hair = no more working velco unless majorly cleaned.
Not to mention what happens if someone comes along with a magnet? London bridge may very well fall down!
--- [Insert intresting Sig here]
Imagine trying to dis-assemble a Beowulf Cluster made with this process... :)
Why yes, I *AM* new here. Why?
Finally, a company comes out with an idea and technology worth patenting. It's a process that makes something physical, they put a lot of work into making it, it's not something everyone has been doing for years, and it solves a problem in a way that doesn't have a ton of nearly identical alternatives.
I bet the USPTO sits on the patent application. They wouldn't know innovation if it velcroed itself to their butt.
Can SOMEONE PLEASE patent the idea of patents, so we can put the USPTO out of business? Call it "A specific process to uniquely identify the orignator of materials and processes in order to facilitate distribution of rights associated with production, sale, and use of such materials and processes."
I bet it would be approved if dressed up right with some technical mumbo jumbo.
The New Scientist magazine, back when I was in school in the early 80's, had a column on the last page of each issue, descibing the exploits of the mythical engineer/scientist Daedalus (actually David E H Jones.)
He had proposed doing exactly this, but with glass, back in one of these columns. It was exactly the same method and result.
It's not the first time that Daedalus's speculative inventions have turned into reality. A couple of books have been published collecting the best of Daedalus.
thad
I love Mondays. On a Monday, anything is possible.
JB-Weld, for those of you who don't know, is probably number one in the list of tools for rednecks and others (right next to duct tape, baling wire, and bubblegum) who need to make a repair fairly quickly, and want it to remain in place.
JB-Weld is strong - very strong. It is a two-part epoxy (comes in slow and quick setting versions) which I have yet to find an equal to.
My brother-in-law repaired the cracked housing of a blower off the diesel engine on his 10-wheel dump truck (it was alluminum, and he didn't have the equipment to properly weld it) - that repair lasted 5 years before he "retired" the truck (actually, the engine block cracked), probably would have lasted even longer...
I use it all the time - if it is something that I can't weld but I need to have it stay together (under heat, pressure, vibration, or other high stress especially) - JB Weld is my first choice. I have seen it hold shit together where you would swear it would have to be welded (more or less, it is - just an epoxy "weld") to stay together.
Now, I know this "metal velcro" is supposed to be an "industrial process" - meaning it will likely never be available for home use in the near future. I also know there are industrial epoxies. I wonder if any of them would beat the pants off of JB-Weld - though I wonder if JB is already an industrial epoxy packaged for "small project" use - I wish I could buy that stuff in larger quantities...
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
I think you've got a point if you're just going to leave the surface exposed to normal air once it's been sculpted, but assuming that you weren't careless in storing it till it's used, then once the composite's been bonded to it, that should take care of any rusting problem, right?
This isn't meant for surfaces that are meant to stay exposed--it's a method to prepare them for some kind of further use, like composite bonding.
"pricker bush"
You mean, "Ever lain on a bed of nails?" You lie/lay/have lain in a bed you lay/laid/have laid nails onto. (Bad example sentence, I know)
Many boffins died to get you that interview!
Look at those pictures at the NS web site. If they aren't the fabled Sinclair Micro-Penis I don't know what is.
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
It's not how *big* they are, it's how you use them that counts.
even half right, and we're not competing here.
You paraphrased the article inaccurately, attributing the commercial potential you're talking about to a technology that isn't described. Your defense is that someone else previously pointed it out so that it's a "fair cop", and that Mick Hamer used the word "teasing" to describe the process to his intended audience in the article he wrote.
The "fast to create" that you speak of is a direct result of the technology you misrepresented. Your path does not lead to the "why", and that's unfortunate, because the why explains why the process may lead to incredible gains in:
When you figure out how to do it with a laser, let us know (with a rotating crystal perhaps), and if it is a commercially viable technology discussed on slashdot, I'll bitch and whine when the first poster misses the point entirely. This isn't personal. I just couldn't pass on the need to set you straight because almost everyone will read the first post.
Slashdot is my Mercer Box.
There is, of course, a cheap way of testing what effect, if any, gravity has on the process. Just repeat the whole process upside down. My guess, however, is that the G-force will have no noticeable effect.
If its velcro, then it is detachable. Hmm, how safe can that be?
Subzerorz
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Interesting quality about velcro. If you replace the hooks with mushrooms, the loops grab under the head of the mushrooms and the fastening becomes permanent (i.e. you can't separate the two pieces).
I'm sure this version velcro is used in many areas. I became aware of it via a friend working in pest control. The nets he was using on buildings to prevent access by pigeons were fastened using this version of velcro.
Shit is st000pid,... why j000 dt00pid.,.. all p3ople use shit is st00dit=
a great new design of medieval armor.
These guys are obviously big time D&D players.
Can't wait till this stuff goes commercial.
The first patent was taken in 1851 by the american Elias Howe, a well known sewing machine constructor. Important improvements were done by the american Whitcomb Judson (1893) and by the swedish-americans Peter A. Aronsson (1906) and Gideon Sundbäck (1913). In the first zippers, the hooks were sewn to the cloth, one at a time. Sundbäck's idea was to punch out the hooks and squeeze them into two textile tapes/ribbons, which could then be sewn to the clothes with a sewing machine.
That's about as different as things get. My father's family are a bunch of Germans that left a little town close to the Black Sea. When they are talking without thinking about it you can barely tell that they have any accent at all. It's more of a difference in pacing and volume. They sometimes tend to clip the ends of their words a bit.
Up there you pretty much have all the different immigrant groups living in separate towns. The Germans, Russians, Swedes and others get along well enough but they tend to live apart. The Germans tell dumb Swede Jokes and I assume the Swedes have dumb Kraut jokes. From what I've heard they're pretty much the same jokes though.
My mom's family has been living in Louisiana so long that everyone has forgotten who is what and what groups have been breeding with who. My mom grew up with a faily thick southern accent but she's pretty much lost it by now. It only pops up when she talks to family or when she's under stress. I've seen her get out of a traffic ticket because the cop thought her accent was cute.
In general, people are prejudiced against those with thick southern accents. It's considered "uneducated" or "low." To a northerner, they sound like they're talking really slow, dragging out their words and that they never finish pronouncing anything.
There are, of course, micro-regional accents, but most of the deep south is lumped into one group. I have no idea how the 'southern" accent came to be, but it's definitely different from the rest of the country.
My dad said that the reasons southerns talk so slow is that it's too hot down there to do anything fast, and that the reason North Dakotans talk fast and clip words is that if they left their mouths open long enough to talk like southerners their tongues would freeze. That caught him a good day and a half worth of hell from my mother.
Non-americans, especially non-english speakers may not pick up on the nuances that we can, of course, and once they do start learning they'd probably be puzzled at why most TV & radio people sound like they're from the mid-west. The trick is to get them hammered and then see what they sound like. Many educated people work on it, and they can turn their non-standard accents on and off, at will.
Y'all pick this up right quickly, you hear?
Why do I have this? I don't smoke.