Drug Addiction Integrated Into Achaea MUD

An anonymous reader writes "The text-based MUD Achaea, one of Iron Realms Entertainment's games, has introduced an addictive drug called gleam into its world, during a plot involving a wide-ranging crime ring. On discovery, a number of players, eager for a new experience, took enough gleam to become immediate addicts, leading to head-twitching, speed-talking druggies polluting the land here and there. Several player cities have already outlawed the drug, and there are some very sorry addicts going through a painful withdrawal that can last up to 25 hours of playing time. It'll be interesting to see if anyone considers the tangible benefit (increased dexterity) that one gets worth the heavy cost of the drug on both the character's bank account and on the player's psyche. At least one real-life recovering addict has used the in-game forums to loudly object to the introduction of gleam."

Comments

Sweet

[Thyamine]

Now I can be addicted to a game and IN the game at the same time.. How progressive =)

Re:Sweet

[enditallnow]

Rumors that the code name for the drug while it was in development was called Evercrack have not been substantuated. ;)

-- Enditallnow

Re:Sweet

[Alzheimers]

Actually, sounds pretty recursive to me...

Re:Sweet

[Xaymot]

Gleam? Isn't that the drug that Jerry Blank invented on Strangers With Candy?

Wait, that was GLINT. Nevermind...

How metaphorical

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering RPGing is pretty much an addiction itself.

Like the woman that had her kids taken way because she wouldn't stop playing everquest.

I hope my city illegalizes RPGs

System Dynamics

[keoghp]

Keep the effects simple, the price high. It will be interesting to see the effects on the dynamics of the game. Will it model the real world?

It could be a good experiment this!

Re:System Dynamics

[philos]

>It could be a good experiment this!

Bliss like Yoda makes you talk.

Seriously, it is good to see that these text based MUDs are still around. There is an allure to MUDs like being wrapped up in a good novel. The sense of community is unmatched, even by many MMORGs.

Anyone can log into by just telnetting to 208.185.247.26, or use their java client at http://www.achaea.com/javaclient/javaclientplain.h tml. I suggest everyone try it at least once! (you'll be hooked, just like on Bliss)

Re:System Dynamics

[Ayaress]

I play Ashen Empires. It doesn't have addiction, but it has the next thing. Alcoholic drinks restore the appetite bar, but drain the stamina bar sharply (making it more difficult to run, especially while carrying a heavy load of loot or ore or whatever you were doing, making you attack slower, and making it impossible to cast spells). It only takes a minute or so to get back up to about 70% (where many people try to keep stamina), but in the meantime, you're a sitting duck to anything or anyone who comes by and wants to kill you. When ales were first introduced, people were hitting up the few people who had quest exp saved up to raise their brewing skills early on for beer. Good brewers made a lot of money that day. After about six hours, though, people realized that the stamina drain was a serious limitation, and nobody uses beer except when they're inside a safezone chatting and notice their blue bar nearly empty - even then beef stew or even keeping a stockpile of mutton or venisen is better and far cheaper (The best beer is 75 gp, the best food is about 30, and helps more than the best beer).

End result: In any RPG, gameplay will always have an impact on RP. Anoter example: Fallout II. Jet gives some pretty impressive benefits. More than enough to turn the tides in an otherwise hopeless fight. But the cost (buying/finding/looting enough Jet, or the stat drain and endless withdrawl if you don't can't) mean that it's not worth the effort.

Drugs have a disadvantage in games: They effect the character, but not the player behind the character. Real drugs give with one hand and take with all the others. In a game, you don't really have anything forcing you to keep taking the drug. You know that if you put up with the disadvantages of withdrawal for a while, and give up the advantages of addiction, you'll more than make up for it by saving all that money for new equipment. All you have to do is put up with reduced performance for 25 hours. During that time, you can still think as clearly as normal, and you can easily keep your eye on all those extra gp you're going to have once it's all done.

In real life, you can say all that, but it's different. Every smoker knows the numbers: Stop smoking, and in two years you have enough money for a new car. The problem in real life is that 25 hours spent in agony. After a day or so of ciggarette withdrawal, you can't think about the money you'd save by quitting. Instead, all you can think about is that if you just give in and have a smoke, the headaches and twitches would go away.

Ebay

[Fullmetal Edward]

How long is it going to take untill people start to buy out all the stock and sell it on ebay like they do in every other MMORPG style games these days?

In a related story

[Anonymous Coward]

In a related story, the popular online gaming community "Evercrack" has introduced a virtual addictive drug called "Quest".

He's protesting?

[cloak42]

At least one real-life recovering addict has used the in-game forums to loudly object to the introduction of gleam.

That's odd. It seems to me that looking at the effects of a drug on a fake world to see what might happen is a very interesting sociological experiment. It's hard to produce real-world effects in a static model, if only for the fact that people tend to do unpredictable things. But stick a drug with real effects (and benefits and detriments, just like a real drug) into a world run by diverse peoples, and you just might see a mirroring of real-world behavior regarding it.

It's interesting that cities have banned the drug; I would've thought something like that wouldn't be controlled at a governmental level in a MUD. I wonder if the drug actually forces the user to do things he/she wouldn't want to do, such as kill somebody or steal from them in order to get enough money to buy more gleam. If that's the case, it's more understandable why cities would want to keep it away from their walls. I'm also assuming that this MUD is PK-able?

I think this is cool. But then again, I've always preferred that art imitate life.

Re:He's protesting?

[CentrX]

Forcing the user to kill or steal wouldn't make much sense. The major cause of people stealing to support their addiction is to avoid the undesirable effects. These undesirable effects are still in the game, and it is still the player's decision to relieve those effects or not, whether they might steal. It would be more interesting and realistic if, while under the drug, words and movements were looser. For instance, if the drug were like alcohol, it might cause the user to move "very close" to an attractive player without them commanding it, thus prompting whatever might ensue. This may require finer real-world accuracy in the system, though.

another everquest rip off

[truffle]

Everyone knows that clarity (the mana regen buff of the enchanter class) is the original addictive MMO drug.

Players

[empaler]

I don't think it will be as widely used as in RW-drugs, as it is far easier for people to handle withdrawals when it's not "real". Just like any RPG, the players would want to "win", and therefore would probably not let their chars be addicted too long.

Then again, maybe the effects outweigh the sideeffects for enough players...

Uhhhhh, no.

[Crash Culligan]

Like the woman that had her kids taken way because she wouldn't stop playing everquest.

I hope my city illegalizes RPGs

I've found that RPGs can be an excellent source of entertainment and socialization, when played in moderation. Your city should just ban stupid people.

So many of the world's problems could be solved if we could separate the intellectual wheat from the chaff, so to speak: those people who can't differentiate fantasy from reality, or who are prone to getting hooked on whatever "big thing" that comes along, be it drugs, alcohol, pornography, roleplaying games, or tax legislation.

Those people who can't handle reality should be pulled out of it and treated like the children they are. They're giving the rest of us a bad name. If they can't tell fantasy from reality, we shouldn't let them watch television. And if they're terminally gullible, they probably shouldn't be allowed to vote; politicians can be tricky.

I'd vote technocrat, only I've got nobody to vote for.

Re:Uhhhhh, no.

[MDCore]

you said:
So many of the world's problems could be solved if we could separate the intellectual wheat from the chaff, so to speak

I say:
And how do you do that exactly, seperate those who can't differentiate between fantasy or reality, or who get hooked on things. IQ Tests maybe? Or do YOU get to decide who's wheat and who's chaff?

technocrat, no. Despot, yes.

Re:Uhhhhh, no.

[mlk]

And how do you do that exactly, seperate those who can't differentiate between fantasy or reality

Well everyone rolls a 2D6 minus ( time_appeared_on_jerry_springer*10), below 4, and we ship 'em of.

Re:Uhhhhh, no.

[Anonymous Coward]

bugger, I've always been bad with dice.

Re:Uhhhhh, no.

[Frizzle Fry]

I've found that RPGs can be an excellent source of entertainment and socialization, when played in moderation

Funny, since that's a pretty accurate description of a lot of drugs that have been banned for similar reason.

Re:Uhhhhh, no.

[Crash Culligan]

you said:
So many of the world's problems could be solved if we could separate the intellectual wheat from the chaff, so to speak

I say:
And how do you do that exactly, seperate those who can't differentiate between fantasy or reality, or who get hooked on things. IQ Tests maybe? Or do YOU get to decide who's wheat and who's chaff?

(Yes, brothers, cherish the <blockquote>)

IQ tests wouldn't quite be right for this; one can be slow to put facts together, yet still able to pull the right facts out of the environment to come (eventually) to a valid conclusion. It's a matter of being able to see what information is available, not assume what isn't available, and even if the whole picture isn't available, using what you've got to make an educated guess. It would be more of a "savvy" test. But some sort of testing method, impartial and incontrovertible, would be needed for something like this.

Come on, admit it. If you're stuck at a toll bridge in the exact change lane behind someone with nothing but a twenty, most peoples' thoughts will stray, however momentarily, to putting a better filter on the gene pool.

Or maybe you don't. Interestingly, I never said anything about appointing myself Minister of Intelligence Standards.

technocrat, no. Despot, yes.

Goodbye logic, hello ad hominem attack! So tell me, what's your solution to the problem of people who get addicted to things? (And don't tell me you don't have an opinion...)

Re:Uhhhhh, no.

[euxneks]

I don't think segregation is the answer so much as education. You'll notice that a lot of these so called "stupid" people are only stupid because of a lack of proper education. Gullability can also be traced to improper education (don't listen to strangers, etc.) I find it terribly dissappointing that a lot of the governments nowadays are focusing on things like health care and other problems when the root of it all is education. Imagine if everyone in the world had proper education... I think we would see a lot of solutions to our problems sort themselves out nice and neatly.

Re:Uhhhhh, no.

[toast0]

Yeah, it's a pretty accurate description of anything.

Re:Uhhhhh, no.

[Frizzle Fry]

How so? The desciption was of something that in moderation is "an excellent source of entertainment and socialization". I don't think most activities fit that description, at least for me. I don't characterize mowing a lawn, or getting in a fistfight, or huffing gas, or waiting in line at the supermarket that way. You may quibble with some of those (e.g., you think there is "excellent socialization" on line at the supermarket), but the point is that tons of activities don't fit that description.

Re:Uhhhhh, no.

[toast0]

Well, I can also quibble about moderation too. :)

Huffing gas isn't something you should do very often due to potential danger, but i would assume it's entertaining for those who do it and it's definitely social, since most of the time you hear about people doing it in groups. And fistfights seem to be quite entertaining, or people wouldn't pay to see them. Mowing a lawn is a social thing too, it helps you get along with pesky neighbors and/or see them depending on the height of the lawn, and some do find it entertainin.

My point really was that everything that's entertaining and social should be done in moderation, so it's not really terribly descriptive. For example, trolling slashdot is something that's entertaining and social, but should only be done in moderation.

Re:Uhhhhh, no.

[Frizzle Fry]

My point really was that everything that's entertaining and social should be done in moderation

I didn't disagree with that. My contention was that there are lots of things that aren't entertaining and social. As a nitpick, the fact that watching fistfights is entertaining and social doesn't work as proof that getting in fistfights is entertaining and social.

And if you are trolling slashdot, isn't moderation your enemy?

Re:Uhhhhh, no.

[toast0]

Alright, I'll agree that I should have been more clear in my initial post, and that some things aren't entertaining and social, unless i over rationalize. I could say that getting in a fistfight is totally social, since it tends to gather a crowd, but that would be a bunch of crap. :)

And when I troll on slashdot, the fun is in getting people, including moderators, to believe it's a legit post. :)

(this stream of comments isn't intended as a troll, but that was a convenient example :)

Re:Uhhhhh, no.

[Anonymous Coward]

mozilla chinese simplified traditional converter switcher


mozilla

Re:Uhhhhh, no.

[samsmithnz]

Addicted to tax legislation...? wtf?!? what are you, an accountant?

Re:Uhhhhh, no.

[Crash Culligan]

Addicted to tax legislation...? wtf?!? what are you, an accountant?

(I was wondering when someone would notice that!)

No, just someone who's observed that when a government, be it at the federal, state, or county level, begins to run short of cash, it looks at trying to squeeze more from the people long before it tries to figure out where the waste is occurring. It's like riding in a leaky dirigible: they reason that if they can keep pumping in more gas (hydrogen, helium, or whatever) than is leaking out, then everything will be all right.

Think about it. So many poor, pathetic legislators have a problem just saying no to the ultimate addictive substance: other peoples' money.

Re:Uhhhhh, no.

[MDCore]

(Yes, brothers, cherish the blockquote)

sorry... I was using plain old text. my bad for not making use of it! :) I agree that IQ tests aren't the answer. It was more like.. "what is your solution? Any of these dumb ones?". Which is not the nicest way of putting it.

ad hominem

I had to think about that one a wee bit. Was I attacking the person and not the idea? I don't think so. I dislike your idea. You said you were describing a technocrat and I was suggesting you were actually describing a despot.

most peoples' thoughts will stray, however momentarily, to putting a better filter on the gene pool.

Yeah I know what you mean. I have had a few experiences though that have taught me not to assume. What I mean is: Do you really know what that persons reason is for being in the exact change lane? There could be a bunch of them from something as simple as "He had correct change yesterday but the wife must have used it!" to "Ich kann nicht Englisch lesen". And probably none of those and any of a million more. Do none of those reasons work for you? Well try for a bit to imagine one that is both plausible and evokes your sympathy.

what's your solution to the problem of people who get addicted to things (And don't tell me you don't have an opinion...)

okay. I won't. :) But seriously. Addiction is a property of human nature. It is in our personalities to get addicted. Some people have a more addictive personality. It's an issue of self-control I suppose. So folks have to learn self-control which is not really something people put much effort into. Delayed gratification. I do appreciate discussion and debate (if that's what one can call this).

already been done...

[shepuk]

The non-combat MMORPG A Tale in the Desert has an extremely interesting game mechanic built around drug addiction... there's a potion in the game - called "Speed of the Serpent" - that gives the user a very beneficial boost to their abilities... but with a catch: SotS acts as a slow (and permanent) poison... after your first drink, you need to consume a dose of antidote at least once every 28 real-time days. If you miss a dose, your character dies. (Death in ATITD is permanent - say goodbye to the character; no resurrection).

The really evil twist is as follows... for every additional drink of SotS you take, you get the same ability boost... but the mandatory interval between your doses of "antidote" shortens by a day... so after 2 drinks of SotS, you need to drink the antidote at least once every 27 days... after 3 doses, you need to take the antidote on a 26 day cycle... etc etc...

This effect is cumulative, and (to date) there is no cure. However... the allure of the benefits that this potion can bring has driven a lot of people to become completely dependent on the antidote - having to log in every few days to make sure they get their fix and their character stays alive(!)

Of course, most people think: "Hey, I can handle one drink... the consequences aren't so bad..." - but once you're on the slippery slope to addiction.... ;)

Re:already been done...

[Pluvius]

So there are people logging in every few days just to keep their characters alive? Why aren't they actually playing the game instead?

Rob

Re:already been done...

[Flunitrazepam]

oh, god. here come the Tail in the Desert fanbois

what a surprise

speaking of addiction...

Re:already been done...

[Anonymous Coward]

If you had to spend 40 hours walking from one side of egypt to the other, you'd get pretty sick of "playing" too. Had the poison juice been available when I tried aTiD several months (a year?) back, I'd have named my character Jim Jones, started a cult, and had everybody drink themselves to death just to end the misery that was playing that game. The people were nice enough (Behemoth?), but, god, did that game bore me.

A Tale in the Desert's take on drug addiction

[Anonymous Coward]

Some context: When you're offline in ATITD, you accumulate "waypoint time" which is used to instantly warp around the game world. It's as if your character has been running the whole time you were logged out, and then you direct where it was he was running to.

This waypoint time is very precious! There is just one way to get more, aside from taking a break from play: you can drink "Speed of the Serpent", which instantly gives you 24 hours of waypoint time. There's a catch: from that point forward, you must drink some cabbage juice (super-easy to get) at least once every 30 real-life days. If you forget (the game even reminds you), or fail to log in during that time, you die: game over, account cancelled, no refunds.

You can do additional shots of Speed of the Serpent for additional 24 hour awards, but then the every-30-day rule changes to every-29-days, then every-28-days, etc.

What's interesting is that the player is the one "addicted", not the character!

We've had about 20 deaths.

Addictive tool for Powergamers?

[vgarofalo]

Admittedly I'm not familiar with this game, but after reading the page about drug use in the game world, I was struck with the following thought.

If use of gleam can raise a character's dexterity, and if long time players have amassed a sizable pile of treasure they have no other use for, will some players see gleam as a way to make their characters even stronger?

I can almost imagine gleam use/addiction being a status symbol of some sort ... for those characters that can easily afford it. Or maybe gleam is a means to try and bleed some extra cash out of characters with too much coin.

Either way, I'm glad I don't play this game.

-- V

Re:Addictive tool for Powergamers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Insert "cocaine" for "gleam", and change from the game to real life, and you're right on target!

Re:Addictive tool for Powergamers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Insert "cocaine" for "gleam", and change from the game to real life, and you're right on target!

Cocaine is God's way of telling you that you make too much money.

Sounds intrestting

[SmallFurryCreature]

Many RPG type games have drugs, certainly the ones set into the futute. More fantasy oriented ones got "drugs" of a sort but they rarely have a negative after effect let alone an addiction penalty.

I however find them usually poorly done in gameplay. It is like all those potions in baldurs gate. Protection against gold, protection against heat, protection against electricity, protection against undead on a friday except on a full moon.

WHO HAS THE TIME!!!!

Geez I am playing a fantasy role of a babarian. Not a bloody chemist. Just sell all those bloody things and spend it on simple healing stuff or even better. Heavy hitters. Who cares is a monster has some weird special attack when one hit puts it down.

I am currently playing Star Wars Galaxies and it got a shitload of drugs/buffs/foods/drinks all wich boost some stat some with some negative after effects. Problem? there are so many that people only bother with 1 or 2 of them. Maybe a 3rd on occasion and all the rest is ignored.

Why? Well I doubt it is an objection to the idea of drugs but more likely that people don't just want to bother. First you got to find a buyer. Then find the money to buy it. Then find the right time to use it. Most of the stuff has short duration and is expensive so you only want to use it when you really need it. Plus the better stuff has after effects so you want to make sure you don't get the downer in the middle of battle.

So drugs in this game are not very intrestting.

It would be intresting to see how a drug would do that has some real and easy to exploit advantages. Say that all your stats go up for a full day but that also has some major side effects like addiction and perhaps overtime less effectivness (so you need more and more just to get the same buzz) and perhaps mental problems like your avatar walking away from battle to look at the pretty colors. Make it illegal in game too so that both imperials and rebels will be looking for it and the components needed.

Then again the real study of addiction is those games themselves. I know SWG is crap with an endless list of bugs and constantly newly introduced bugs, the latest is that mission payouts are not shared out amount the group anymore and sometimes not even being payed out to the mission owner, and yet I keep playing. It is nice weather outside and yet I am inside playing a game that is more an exercise in frustation then fun. At least real world drug addicts can consider themselves cool rebels without a cause. I am just a nerd.

Re:Sounds intrestting

[Anonymous Coward]

I am currently playing Star Wars Galaxies and it got a shitload of drugs/buffs/foods/drinks all wich boost some stat some with some negative after effects.

The only buff with ANY negative after effects is spice. Doc / entertainer / chef buffs have no drawbacks. At all. Which is why spice is almost completely ignored, except as an emergency mind-stim (Muon).

Nobody wants to use something that will make them totally useless for any period of time (even if the /puke timer is only 5 minutes)

Re:Sounds intrestting

[Samrobb]

It is like all those potions in baldurs gate. Protection against gold...

Protection from gold? Gah! What kind of sick, twisted alchemist would come up with that particular concoction? (Probably one who had too much contact with your average everyday adventurer, I guess...)

Re:Sounds intrestting

[dasunt]

WHO HAS THE TIME!!!!

The malicious immorts on a mud will code drugs and withdrawels, but give enough of a "boost" to lure others to use them.

The really malicious immorts on a mud will code diseases. Just wait until your barbarian gets a nasty cold. ;)

Is this new?

[Washizu]

I'm sure the declaration went something like this...

SirElfZer: Gleam is a danger to our children in this text based society. Chemical dependency wastes out currency and poisons our soul.
SirEflZer: Merchants caught selling it will have their licenses revoked and will be banished to the northern caves.
* Wild Dog bites SirElfZer for -4 hit points *
SirElfZer: QUICK! Someone get me a potion!

Fallout

[(trb001)]

Hasn't this already been done in Fallout? I know Achaea is a MUD and therefore realtime/MM/etc, but Fallout had a number of drugs that you could use, get boosts from, get addicted to and go through withdrawl from. Hell, two of the abilities you chose while rolling your character determined whether you were highly resistant or highly affected by drugs.

--trb

Re:Fallout

[*weasel]

Games Workshop has also had drugs and dependency in its tabletop and pen-and-paper games for years (almost decades).

The fact that a player is protesting this mechanic is the only thing 'new' here imo.

Of course, previous games with drugs were played in tight-knit groups or by individuals, so those not wanting to see/experience drugs simply didn't.
In a persistent world, that's not really an option.

Re:Fallout

[FortKnox]

Fallout had the idea... and a MUD... a simple text based game... implements a similar (yet much less robust) feature, and its a slashdot article?

MUDs are old and only have a cult following. A new MUD feature is really not /. worthy.

Re:Fallout

[AdamPiotrZochowski]

In fallout, anything that is a drug or similiar to a drug can cause
an addiction.

So besides obvious:
Beer / Booze / Jet (form of speed) / Mentats

we also could get addicted to just Coca Cola, Nuke Cola.

Out of more wierd addictions are ones related to healing.
In Fallout you can become radiated by walking around nuclear
silos, nuclear blast sites, nuclear waste or nuclear reactors.
The game however provides you a variaty of anti-rad pills and
potions. A heavy use of such pills can leave you addicted
to them.

Further more, in fallout one generally heals by sleeping
off damage, but during a fight you cannot take a nap, so
there is this product called 'stimpak' that fixes you.
You can get addicted to it.

There are also super stimpaks that you get more easily
addicted to (but provide more healing power).

And once you get addicted you have to sustain your
addicted state or go through withdrawal.

Some of the characters that join your party (cassidy)
also have medical conditions, meaing they can die of
heart attack due to abuse of drugs.

As another poster mentioned there are also addiction
related perks/skills.

If you are 'Chem Resistant' it means you dont get
addicted as easily, but this also means that the drugs
effects get diminished.

Conversly if you are 'Chem Reliant', it means that you
get addicted easily, but also it means you go through
withdrawal much faster.

so many choices, so many poisions, so many addictions.

Fallout,.. the best ever RPG...

/apz, If you don't have a nasty obituary you probably didn't matter. -- Freeman Dyson

Re:Fallout

[M3wThr33]

Thankfully you can't get addicted to a certain fried "food" in the game. That would be a horrible existence.

Re:Fallout

[Ayaress]

One correction: Stimpaks are not addictive (Thank god!).

Not sure about superstims, but they're pretty nasty as it is (They fully restore your HP immediately, but you lose a portion of the gain a while later. I used them through a hard fight, and a little while later dropped dead from the delayed HP loss).

Most of the addictions aren't too bad. Just about every Fallout character I've made has suffered through Buffout, Mentat, Rad-X, and Rad-away withdrawal. The only drug that's really dangerous is Jet. Just for fun, I tried to get through the game after getting addicted to Jet as soon as I reached Klamath. Nearly impossible. I finally broke down and went through the quest to find the cure.

Dune

[Soukyan]

Spice? Several Dune MUDs are in existence and the whole of that world revolves around an addictive substance. Why should gleam be viewed as any different than melange? Certainly introducing an addictive substance that has benefits into a society is going to cause changes to that society, but it will make for an interesting experiement. I think I need to start playing Achaea again just to see what happens.

Neocron

[schroet]

Neocron has lots of drugs, you don't get permanently addicted though, just lots of "drug haze" when they wear off, the more stuff you're on the more debilitating the haze effect.

http://www.neocron.com

zzz

[Anonymous Coward]

what the hell is this MUD and why is there always stories about it instead of any of the other thousands of muds? This isn't a mud news site, nobody cares. Medievia is bigger and better than achaea anyway. achaea Players Online right now: 210. medievia players online right now: 313

Re:zzz

[Anonymous Coward]

you probably know a lot of people think medievia is full of stolen code. but then again linux is also, so keep on playing :p

A $10,000 MUD?!

[Anonymous Coward]

From the Iron Realms web site:

Rapture is available for license but the cost is in five figures.

Five figures for software relating to a text-based game? This is bizarre to say the least. In regards to the drug being introduced into the game, I am unimpressed. First of all it isn't like it took a coding genius to create this little feature. I've seen ale in MUD's since I've been playing them. Alcohol is a drug too! Second, this drug has been placed into the MUD world with the preconceived notions of the developers about how drugs are used in real life. It looks like the addiction and behavior changes were written by the same guy who wrote Refer Madness! The vast majority of drugs in real life do not turn you in to a raging addict on the first try! This feature just spreads FUD about drugs!

I like MUD's and I think they are undervalued, but I am surprised a company who thinks its "Rapture" text based game engine is worth minimum $10,000 would not be laughed off of slashdot. To reiterate drugs have been in MUD's for a long time now, and this is nothing new! But drugs being introduced into a $10,000 MUD, now that is news!

Re:A $10,000 MUD?!

[j.bellone]

One of the biggest ripoffs I've ever heard; give me $10,000 and I'll write you a multi-platform MUD engine. I don't see anything different about this engine than SMAUG or DIKU, I wouldn't doubt if this thing was just a DIKU hybrid.

Re:A $10,000 MUD?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course, neither DIKU nor SMAUG have any reliability (they crash constantly) and neither are commercially viable options. I believe the reason they charge for Rapture is simple: It's intended for commercial enterprises, not some pimply-faced geek running a DIKU out of his parents' basement.

Re:A $10,000 MUD?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Show me a business model surrounding a text based game. Prove that this $10,000 price tag is anything other than a complete and utter farce.

There is no "commercial enterprise" that is viable under this model. How many users would you need to recoup just the $10,000 price tag? How much would you charge these users per month?! Do you really think there is a market for MUD's large enough to allow a business to invest this much capital just to get started with a gamedriver (not to mention developing the mudlib!)?! Furthermore, these schmuks are claiming the sum is "in five figures", I just grabbed the $10,000 figure for the sake of argument and to give them the benefit of the doubt. Do you think a MUD could be profitable if it required $90,000 just for the engine!? Do you have any clue how many extremely large and deep MUD's already exist that are completely free? Why would anyone pay to play a MUD with so many free alternatives?

Do you have any proof that DIKU MUD's crash all the time? If so, what about DGD's? Or LPMUD, or LDMUD, etc. Are there any benchmarks or other data tracking the performance and reliability of "Rapture" v. DIKU or DGD?

These people are just making this shit up. If you still believe them, you should contact me about this great business I have where you can make a lot of money! It won't come cheap, though, the price is in FIVE FIGURES! But I promise it is revolutionary and it will never crash!

Re:A $10,000 MUD?!

[mjjk2]

Had you actually played this game, you would know why they value the engine at 10,000 bucks.

It's not that it's such a great engine at all, it's because of the business model they use to squeeze money out of players. They sell things called credits for real money. You can exchange these credits for the in-game stuff, such as new skills, houses, pets, special artifact items etc.

40 of those credits cost $20 and you can't really get much for 40 credits. Therefore, some people buy hundrends and some even thousands of these credits. I know of several people who spent over $1000 USD on this game, something they would never do if it was just your standard subscription model like MMORPGs use.

Fact is, IRE owners are getting hella rich with the game and so that's why the engine costs that much.

Re:A $10,000 MUD?!

[adri]

Actually, as far as I can tell its not Diku-based.

http://www.ironrealms.com has the actual language programming guide, and its not like any MUD engine I've seen.
Please feel free to correct me on this.

Its $10k because (a) it works, (b) it works well, and (c) it works well in a commercial environment. (d), funnily enough, it doesn't have any "you can't use this for commercial gain" in its licence, quite obvious if you've bought it. Thats not the whole licence as I'm not really going to repeat everything that I know here but suffice to say its proven itself in the real world.

Now, before you go "I can do it with 10K!" - how about you go and write something similar to Rapture, run a commercial MUD which actually makes money, and then sell it for 10k. Sure, _I_ could write a mud engine for 10k too but I think its completely unfair to actually ask for it before having some working, demonstratable code. :)

Finally, The "credits" system in Achaea is quite far from how it began. If you read the Announce posts you'll find that it initially was going to be a pay-to-play MUD (like EverCrack). After a while, and I guess a few credit purchases, the credit system turned into a method of getting more lessons and buying artifacts. Artifacts were actually auctioned off initially. There wasn't even an in-game credit market.

I play Achaea because I'm addicted to the multitude of ways you can achieve things. Sure, I actually enjoy the indepth PK system (which is completely another story) but the diplomacy, economics, stock market-like credit market are just three of the reasons _I_ am still around. That kind of stuff isn't easy to write or balance.

Achaea may not be a pioneer in a lot of the things they've tried, but so what.

(Note: I do know that Achaea has a lot of downsides. Heck, I've bitched about them myself. But, *shrug*, everything has its downside.)

Re:A $10,000 MUD?!

[Anonymous Coward]

From a text based MUD... Do you have any evidence to back any of this up?

I just don't believe that it is worth this much. If I am wrong, no problem, but I need to see some proof.

Re:A $10,000 MUD?!

[Anonymous Coward]

I accept that this company has in theory made money from its MUD engine for itself, but have they ever actually sold a license for "five figures"? Are there other MUD's with this engine? If so, have they disclosed the price they paid for it?

If "Rapture" is so wonderful and everyone is getting rich off of it, why not just say the price is $12,000 or whatever? I don't get the arrogant, "if you want it, ask us. But be warned our price is in five figures" attitude. Don't they actually want to sell this? Assuming they already sell it?

This does not pass the smell test. I may be wrong, but who knows.

As to the coding skills it took to create the MUD, in the time I've played MUDs I have known a lot of talented programmers. I have no doubt that a text based game could be coded from the ground up with just a few hard working coders. I have no problem with these guys running their business etc. I just don't understand what makes this engine so valuable that its price cannot even be uttered on the web.

You can tell me a lot of people play this MUD or whatever MUD that uses this "Rapture" engine. It still does not mean these guys are not full of shit when it comes to the pricing of their product in this day and age.

I am not a professional marketer or game developer or anything related to giving me special knowledge about the value of the MUD gaming industry. Just IMHO this stinks.

Re:A $10,000 MUD?!

[j.bellone]

I am writing a mud engine right now; it's a base being built for an eventual MMORPG that my team plans on developing. My URL will send you to the engine page.

Nothing new

[j.bellone]

I have been programming MUDs for a good few years, and this is nothing new. There have been MUDs around that have "diseases", "sicknesses", hell, even some had "stds." Nothing new; although most of them didn't advertise it like it was a special gametype or something.

Re:Nothing new

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly... nothing new.

Chiba City MUSH, the worlds *greatest* and much-lamented cyberpunk RPG had a realistic drug system that included addiction and various other positive and negative affects on characters. To claim this is something new is deceptive and absurd.

Codex! Neuro! Winter! Where you be?

MUDs

[WWWWolf]

MUDs, wherefrom the MMORPGs truly spring, have had addictive substances for quite a while now.

I think BatMUD has had tobacco addiction for as long as I can remember. Which would be something like since 1994-6 or something. Quite likely also earlier than that.

I recall an old text MUD doing something similar..

[Samurai Cat!]

...though it may have just been alcohol, not drugs. The MUD was called "Armageddon", it was based off some old D&D-based novels, set in a desert. (I don't recall the name of the book series.)

I recall bumping into another character in a town, and everything he said came out on my end as garbled, and he would 'stagger around' i.e. he'd try to go north and would go east instead, etc. The effects would wear off in time. I don't think they had any sort of addiction built into the system.

Flamebait here.

[E_elven]

The drift of the story -undoubtedly submitted by one of the industrious Achaea PR folks- seems to be that Achaea invented the drug addiction code. This is incorrect -there have been many instances of similar implementations in the past.

I am, frankly, sick and tired of reading advertisements for Achaea on /. shallowly disguised as news or articles -there are many as good and even more better MUDs out there (not that Achaea is particularly bad), with better code, better storylines, better administration and better players. 'd rather read about MUDs in general rather than these moronic innuendos.

Achaea uses the same questionable advertising style on many forums. It is one of the few apparently commercially successful text-based game companies of the time, but this is entirely unnecessary.

Please, do not post this crap anymore.

Re:Flamebait here.

[Flunitrazepam]

hey, it worked for Tail in the Desert... oh wait no it didn't.

Uh, euphoria, duh.

[AEther141]

This is never going to model real drug addiction for one simple reason - MMORPGs cannot model euphoria, the reason people take addictive drugs. People don't get hooked on crack because they're stupid, they get hooked on crack because it feels better than anything else. No amount of buffs can simulate that kind of incentive.

Re:Uh, euphoria, duh.

[Anonymous Coward]

people shell out thousands of real dollars for better stats in games like these. I don't see why drugs that give stat boosts (and having withdraw that would lower stats) would be much different

Re:Uh, euphoria, duh.

[GoofyBoy]

>This is never going to model real drug addiction for one simple reason

No, just like it can't model long-term damage to a body from running around, jumping off of walls etc.

At best it can highlight the fact that some drugs when used in excess do have determential effects which might not be worth it.

Sounds like

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like free web-based email service.

If you don't log on within x-days, your account dies. Or your account enters the no-longer-free zone. If it's a good account name or one that has some level of attachment, you become focused with keeping it alive. So, the concept isn't all that unusual.

Not flamebait, this is just plain not NEWSI

[XO]

I wrote Drug addictions into the MUD that I had over ten years ago. This is neither news, nor anything that matters.

This is not a flamebait post, either. I'm just stating the truth. No one gives a fuck.

Re:I recall an old text MUD doing something simila

[Lathan]

The AD&D world you're looking for is Dark Sun. I played that MUD for a little while; unfortunately, I just couldn't get into it (besides an odd schedule, I apparently can't actually roleplay with that interface).

Drunk code has been standard on Diku-based MUDs for ages now, especially the garbled text.

Been there, done that

[Patrick May]

Ancient Anguish has had such substances available for a number of years. They pose no problem. I can quit anytime I want. Really.