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Password Memorability and Securability

NonNullSet writes "Who would have thought that that something new could be said about how best to select passwords? Ross Andreson of Cambridge University and some of his colleages have performed new empirical studies and found some pretty non-intuitive results. For example: 1. The first folk belief is that users have difficulty remembering random passwords. This belief is confirmed. 2. The second folk belief is that passwords based on mnemonic prases are harder for an attacker to guess than naively selected passwords. This belief is confirmed. 3. The third folk belief is that random passwords are better than those based on mnemonic phrases. However, each appeared to be just as strong as the other. So this belief is debunked. 4. The fourth folk belief is that passwords based on mnemonic phrases are harder to remember than naively selected passwords. However, each ap- peared to be just as easy to remember as the other. So this belief is debunked. 5. The fifth folk belief is that by educating users to use random passwords or mnemonic passwords, we can gain a significant improvement in security. However, both random passwords and mnemonic passwords suffered from a non-compliance rate of about 10% (including both too-short passwords and passwords not chosen according to the instructions). While this is better than the 35% or so of users who choose bad passwords with only cursory instruction, it is not really a huge improvement. The attacker may have to work three times harder, but in the absence of password policy enforcement mechanisms there seems no way to make the attacker work a thousand times harder. In fact, our experimental group may be about the most compliant a systems administrator can expect to get. So this belief appears to be debunked."

138 of 436 comments (clear)

  1. Freaking PDF files. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Freaking PDF files. Link to a version translated into HTML. By the time this goes live, maybe the FTP will be slashdotted, too. Thanks, Google.

    I suppose I should make a comment. Okay, here it is: looks like users are still the weakest link in security. Whoever said that social engineering was the ultimate hack is a genius.

    1. Re:Freaking PDF files. by QBasicer · · Score: 3, Informative

      I don't think that will ever change, unless we use the bio scanning methods (iris scans and whatnot)

      I heard about DNA scan, but I can't see that working, it could be falseified. Even a finger print could be carried (cut off their finger if they wanted access enough).

      The strongest way to do it is with multiple methods (text password, then voice password, the finger print scan, and then iris scan).

      --
      x86, oh yes, I'm pro.
    2. Re:Freaking PDF files. by somethinghollow · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What does that make Kevin Mitnick?

      Oh, yeah... I remember him. I forgot that guy after existed he was free and not a symbol of everything that was wrong with the legal system in the US.

    3. Re:Freaking PDF files. by the_mad_poster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I second the HTML version. Good old Adobe - popped up a nice little window in the background bugging me to update and stalled the IE process. Since the window went to the background, all I could see was the stalled process, and I killed IE, which, of course, closed all my windows. I hate pdf files...

      Anyway, here's a consideratoin: semi-disgruntled employees. For example, I'm not disloyal enough to actively seek to damage the company's systems or information, but with the way they treat employees, and the way my dysfunctional department operates, I'm not loyal enough to sit and try to think of strong passwords every month. So, I come up with creative ways to circumvent the draconian password policy instead. Ironically, some of my stronger passwords have been defeated by this overly strict ruleset and wound up with me simply appending a character to a weaker password to get around it.

      The lesson: draconian password policies hurt security and audit your password lists on a regular basis (at least randomly sample them regularly). Most of your users probably don't give a crap about their passwords because they don't give a crap about what happens to the company's systems and information.

      --
      Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
    4. Re:Freaking PDF files. by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The format may not be an open standard, but it is well enough documented by Adobe that there are high quality Free Software implementations.

      Untrue. Adobe has intentionally omitted certain "security" data from their specification, and has directed the arrest of people who publish reverse-engineered descriptions.

      In practice, this means that there are many PDFs on public websites that Free Software (like xpdf and ghostview) cannot view at all, because the author decided to set a "No Clipboard" flag when exporting from Acrobat.

      I haven't seen any "Free" PDF viewer that's earned "high quality". "Servicable for most uses", but not "high quality".

      PDF versions should be considered supplementary to the HTML ones.

      Correct- but it's really sad that there is no intermediate format. HTML has no ability to describe pagination at all, while PDF encodes layout so explicitly it may as well be a scanned PNG of the document.

      Word processing software allows smart, dynamic pagination, by storing entities like hard/soft page breaks, headers/footers, column connections, etc. That knowledge allows the document to be reformatted reasonably for whatever paper/font size the reader wants.

      But unfortunately, there is effectively only 1 Word Processing file format today, and it's too proprietary to use as a web document standard. I wish the assorted "Free" word processors could step back from chasing "Word Document" all the time and come up with a good, common format that web browsers can (eventually) view directly.

    5. Re:Freaking PDF files. by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 2, Insightful

      the real usefulness of PDFs is that they are portable. I have a document, I can email it or FTP it or network-share it to any user on any platform and it will look exactly the same.

      I would argue that you have just mentioned why PDFs are not portable.

      Because the document always looks "exactly the same", that means that in some viewing environments it will be much harder to read, or even flat-out illegible. If the recipient has a tiny PDA screen, or has impaired vision, then an HTML file (or even a Microsoft Word DOC) can be reformatted on the client-side to have 30-pt text or unified columns, or whatever else is needed (including speech synthesis for the totally blind)

      Why, PDFs aren't even portable between the USA and Europe! (because paper comes in different sizes across the Atlantic).

  2. Google by Mz6 · · Score: 5, Informative
    --
    Hmmm.
  3. I just use my phone number..... by MrIrwin · · Score: 2, Funny

    oops!

    --

    And if you thought that was boring you obviously havn't read my Journal ;-)

    1. Re:I just use my phone number..... by Dr.+GeneMachine · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hah! Now I also know how to reach you on the phone...

      --
      This comment does not exist.
  4. Longest... summary... ever... by Da+Fokka · · Score: 4, Funny

    Not RTFA has never been so easy! How am I supposed to have an uninformed opinion like this?!

    1. Re:Longest... summary... ever... by Neophytus · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's to distinguish the fact that the post is quoted from the submitter rather than editor-written (as sometimes happens)

  5. quepasa by JohnGrahamCumming · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So take a look at quepasa. It combines remembering a passphrase, with cryptographically generated passwords (SHA-256 hashing of the passphrase and account name followed by mapping of the hash to typeable characters).

    The combination means that I can always "recall" the password for any of my accounts using the quepasa application (all I remember is a single passphrase), and the passwords are not stored anywhere.

    John.

    1. Re:quepasa by alexatrit · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Looking at the end result of this, how is it any different that typing up a list of randomly generated passwords in vim/notepad/whatever, and encrypting the list with gpg? You still have to run and check the program every time you want to login to a service. The passphrase supplied to quepasa could easily be that to decode your gpg-encrypted list of passwords.

      --

      Nothing but the finest in meaningless drivel
    2. Re:quepasa by JohnGrahamCumming · · Score: 4, Informative

      The differences are:

      1. There's no file stored anywhere containing the passwords so you can't lose them, or have the file in order to get the password.

      2. You don't have to do the random creation of passwords in the first place.

      3. When it comes time to change passwords, just change the passphrase.

      John.

    3. Re:quepasa by nizo · · Score: 4, Interesting
      For anyone who cares, an easy solution I use is a quickie perl program I wrote that generates something like:
      a TL b CP c t5
      d GR e KW f Nu
      g zM h 4& i pH
      j qk k sb l +J
      m %$ n dU o rm
      p 7D q 6F r ne
      s Z? t gQ u Ay
      v =Y w 2x x c!
      y vX z VS


      Basically it assigns random chars/numbers/symbols to each letter of the alphabet. It tosses things like zero, one, and eight and letters O, H, I, J, L, B (upper or lower, depending on confusion with the aforementioned numbers). Now I print this nice little table and use it for passwords all over the place. For example I could just remember "slash" which maps to the password Z?+JTLZ?4&


      Also, if someone gets that little peice of paper or sholder-surfs they don't get my passwords without at least a little effort. Oh and laminating it is a good idea, and an extra copy in a safe place wouldn't hurt too.

    4. Re:quepasa by bcrowell · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Also

      4. Encryption software tends to be hard to use, and to use it, you have to understand quite a bit about encryption. (What's a keychain? What's a public key? A private key? What do I do if my private key is compromised?)

      Personally I use a GPG-encrypted file, but quepasa does sound like a neat idea. My only misgiving about it is that it still requires users to have a clue, and the point of the article seems to be that having a clue (or caring enough to make an effort) is the limiting factor.

    5. Re:quepasa by RKBA · · Score: 2, Informative
      What's a keychain?
      A local list of the public keys you keep on your own computer (as opposed to remotely on a keyserver). It's like an address book, except that it contains the public keys of your correspondents.

      What's a public key?
      A key you make public so that others can send messages to you. Likewise, others make their own public key known to you (or to the public in general) so you can encrypt messages to them.

      A private key?
      The key you need in order to decode the messages others have encrypted using your public key.

      What do I do if my private key is compromised?
      Generate a new private and public key. Send a revocation notice to the public keys server(s) you use and notify all your correspondents of your public key change.

      I use an older version of a free program called Password Safe and keep lots of backup copies of it's data file on floppies, etc. With the (ugly) newer version you can also print out a hardcopy.

    6. Re:quepasa by Nodatadj · · Score: 2, Funny

      Fuck fuck shit shit taco is a stupid ass fuckweed.

      Oh wait, shit, it didn't work.

    7. Re:quepasa by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 2, Interesting

      .bash_history?

      No good security software will accept a password passed on the command line. If they did, it would open more holes than just shell history- consider that most Linux systems allow all users to see every command line that any user is currently running.

      ssh, for example, will only let you type a password in a separate interactive prompt. So .bash_history will only hold the passwords if the software was woefully misdesigned.

      However, there is a file that might hold the passwords: the virtual memory "swap file". It's unlikely but not impossible that the just-typed password could be swapped from RAM to disk, and then left on disk a long while.

  6. Consonant-Vowel Method by Chess_the_cat · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Mitnick had a neat suggestion in the Art of Deception. The Consonant-Vowel Method. It provides an easy to remember password because it is pronounceable. You take the following template and swap in consonants and vowels: CVCVCVCV. The examples he gave are MIXOCASO and CUSOJENA. The point is they won't be in the dictionary but you can remember these nonsense words.

    --
    Support the First Amendment. Read at -1
    1. Re:Consonant-Vowel Method by Frit+Mock · · Score: 3, Insightful


      Nice try ... consonant-vovel is a nice pattern ... patterns are easier to break

    2. Re:Consonant-Vowel Method by Plutor · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Another thing to remember is that rules like this just make brute-forcing simpler. There are 2.18*10^14 mixed-case alphanumeric 8-character passwords, but only 3.11*10^10 mixed-case consonant-vowel passwords (1/7000th as many possibilities), and only 1.2*10^8 single-case C-V passwords.

      Forcing 8-char passwords is just as inadvisable. There are 6.16*10^15 possibilities for 6-8 character passwords made up of all typeable characters (ACII 33-126). That'll take 195 days to search the whole keyspace at 1M tests per second. And hopefully your password rotation is more often than that.

    3. Re:Consonant-Vowel Method by lukewarmfusion · · Score: 4, Interesting

      True, but if the attacker knew that your passwords followed a certain template (those two are 8 characters, all caps, and alternate consonant vowel starting with consonants) they become much easier to attack.

      My applications rarely force complexity (sometimes they require numbers or other non-alpha characters). The instructions are always there, but users rarely ever follow them.

      One of my not-so-critical applications (a web messageboard!) from a while back stored the passwords as plaintext in the DB (I now use hashing, thank you very much). I once looked at the password list just to see how complex people chose their passwords:

      ~60% had one word passwords of about 5 or 6 letters, no numbers
      10% used their username (which has since been prohibited)
      10% had complex passwords - stuff that made no sense to me and used numbers, non-alphanumeric characters, etc.
      The rest (a little more than 20%) had a word + a number, or something around those lines.

      I did ask them all about password security, and I got two basic responses: My password is secure, or What does it matter?

    4. Re:Consonant-Vowel Method by joelhayhurst · · Score: 5, Informative

      There is also a unix utility called APG (Automated Password Generator) which will create pronounceable gibbrish passwords to your specifications. I usually use that, find one I like, then replace a few letters with l33t-speak numbers (to think, it has a use...).

    5. Re:Consonant-Vowel Method by stephenisu · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Allow non-standard ascii into the password. What cracker is gonna check for '®æÝ'?

      --
      Sigs? We don't need no stinking sigs!
    6. Re:Consonant-Vowel Method by aphor · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Making this kind of argument is valid only if it is practical for people to use passwords from a maximum-entropy pool of acceptable passwords. Think about this for a second: what you are talking about, strictly speaking, is a cryptographic key. However, we keep using the term password. The difference is subtle but significant, and it is the crux of the issue in the article (RTFA). Passwords are a kind of word, used as a cryptographic key in this case. So, they are the intersection of the set of things that can be words and the set of things that can be cryptographic keys. If you get too strict with the definition of either of the two sets, you risk shrinking the intersection to a cryptographically insigificant number of brute-force attempts.

      Rules like this do *not* make brute-forcing simpler. What we need is more like them. Instead of forcing people to use a selection of truly random numbers as passwords, we should have a cornucopia of different mnemmonic password generation algorithms with different inputs that are likely to differ greatly (in two dimensions) from person to person and over time. The total brute force guesses would be the UNION of all of those sets, and they would also meet human factors requirements. The way to improve cryptographic security of passwords is to *increase* freedom, and to discourage conformity. Specifically ruling out different password mnemmonics actually shrinks your pool of brute-force possibilities and thus weakens your scheme. It is acceptable for some people to use dictionary-weak passwords sometimes as long as there is a much greater likelihood at any one time that they will not.

      The bigger the dictionary, the closer the attack comes to brute-force keyspace searching. GROW the dictionary to obtuse proportions!

      --
      --- Nothing clever here: move along now...
    7. Re:Consonant-Vowel Method by damiam · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Any password system is inherently "security through obscurity". It only works if the cracker doesn't know the password. Security through obscurity is bad only if the obscurity is weak.

      --
      It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
    8. Re:Consonant-Vowel Method by Danny+Rathjens · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Replacing letters with l33t-speak numbers is not wise. That is one of the first variations that password cracking software will attempt after appending numbers.
      At least you aren't l33tifying plain dictionary words, ;) When I ran 'crack' on our university shadow files( during job as sysadmin ) the cracked passwords were usually stuff like 'termin8'.
      I recommend any sysadmins to download software like 'crack' or 'john the ripper' just to get an idea of the techniques used to break passwords. e.g. the fact that 'dictionaries' in the case of password cracking also include things likes lists of anime and cartoon characters, actors, actresses, scientists, etc. And, of course, the aforementioned leet pattern replacements like s/ate/8/ and s/e/3/.

  7. Sys admin and internal support by matthew.thompson · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Sometimes even the most vigilant sys admin as not able to halt these problems.

    Where I work the passwords are changed by internal support and logged into a database as well as entered into the system.

    Despite requests to us strong passwords the internal support view is get as quiet a life as possible and just accept whatever password a user chooses.

    The number of times I've seen summer1 is ridiculous.

    Personally I think users should choose their own passwords and the system should limit them to >8 characters and a %age difference from their last 10 passwords. But I don't make up the policies.

    --
    Matt Thompson - Actuality - Insert product here.
    1. Re:Sys admin and internal support by Liselle · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Personally I think users should choose their own passwords and the system should limit them to >8 characters and a %age difference from their last 10 passwords. But I don't make up the policies.
      I agree, but you do that and then your security will be circumvented by Post-it notes on monitors. We lost that fight before it even began.
      --
      Auto-reply to ACs: "Truly, you have a dizzying intellect."
    2. Re:Sys admin and internal support by anon*127.0.0.1 · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, the post-it on the monitor is way too obvious.

      Clever users put the post-it on the bottom of their keyboard, where no one will ever think to look.

      --
      I am NOT a man!
      I am a free number!
    3. Re:Sys admin and internal support by Liselle · · Score: 2, Funny

      Hmm, bottom of the keyboard, I'll have to try that. I'm still trying to figure out how he guessed that my password was "summer1", though.

      --
      Auto-reply to ACs: "Truly, you have a dizzying intellect."
    4. Re:Sys admin and internal support by wwest4 · · Score: 2, Funny

      > The number of times I've seen summer1 is ridiculous.

      "coffee[1-9]" is another one. the best is when people pick embarrassing ones, like "imabadas", "jacked", or "bigman33".

  8. Now keep them away from chocolate by enkafan · · Score: 5, Funny

    Yeah, passwords and standards are fine as long as you keep snickers out of the office

  9. Length vs randomness by SWroclawski · · Score: 5, Interesting

    One area I'd like to see would be strength of a password in terms of randomness, requireing use of characters, etc. vs length. Is an 8 character password with a punctuation mark better than a 10 character pasword with all lower case characters? If so, by how much?

    Then we can determine a good password policy that fits with the security model at the facility.

    1. Re:Length vs randomness by Liselle · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The moment X method becomes popular, it is immediately less effective, because crackers will know what to poke at. If there is a world of unfriendly machines out there, one of your best bets is being a moving target. Password studies are interesting, but the results (of how hard they are to crack) can't be valid for long.

      --
      Auto-reply to ACs: "Truly, you have a dizzying intellect."
    2. Re:Length vs randomness by _bug_ · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Length and randomness go together and it should never be an either/or decision.

      Plus it's difficult to factor in the domain of characters an attacker will use to brute force a password. Throwing in a puctuation mark on a relatively short password will be strong against any attackers who use only alphanumeric characters in their cracking scheme. But the first attacker who does include said punctuation will crack a short password relatively quickly.

      L0phtcrack probably has the best approach in which a basic dictionary attack, then a hybrid attack by attaching numerals and punctuation on to the end of a dictionary word. Etc..

      But really, if you're not using a dictionary word as your password, the chances of a brute force attack being successful are very low.

      An attacker is going to get your password through other means such as keylogging or packet sniffing.

      Passwords are really only one tiny piece to the whole security plan and I think it's too focused on. How about more on how to physically protect a machine, how to prevent keyloggers or packet sniffers. How about social engineering? That's one of the last topics (if at all) to be covered during discussions about security.

    3. Re:Length vs randomness by pyro_peter_911 · · Score: 5, Informative
      One area I'd like to see would be strength of a password in terms of randomness, requireing use of characters, etc. vs length. Is an 8 character password with a punctuation mark better than a 10 character pasword with all lower case characters? If so, by how much?


      An 8 character password using unique upper case, lower case, digits and punctuation has about 94 different characters. If we picked a random 8 character password from this we would have:


      94_P_8 = 94! / (94 - 8)! = 94! / 86! = 94 * 93 * 92 * 91 * 90 * 89 * 88 * 87 = 4.4x10^15 permutations


      A 10 character password using only unique 26 lower case characters has:


      26_P_10 = 26! / (26-10)! = 26! / 16! = 1.9x10^13 permutations.


      So, the 8 character password using all characters is about 200 times more difficult to brute force than the 10 character password only using lower case characters.


      Peter

  10. No passwords... by Allen+Zadr · · Score: 2, Interesting
    That's why I assign passwords to my users. I know that they are random, cryptic, long enough, and if my user can't remember it, I can remind them.

    On the other hand, I don't have a password retention policy either, so really if someone is in my employ for more than six months, there's a good chance of a password getting lost into the wrong hands. Yes, I know this is a bad idea.

    --
    Kinetic stupidity has a new brand leader: Allen Zadr.
    1. Re:No passwords... by Glonoinha · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Stay late one night. After they are all gone walk from desktop to desktop. Look for post-it notes on the side of the monitor and under the keyboard, and in their drawers. The results will scare you, if your users are anything like mine, and I bet after that you start letting them pick less cryptic passwords.

      Also, if you know their password there goes any semblance of Non-Repudiation. And if you can 'remind them' either you have a very short list of users and can remember them, or you have a written list somewhere - nifty, but a bad idea.

      --
      Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
  11. entering passwords is the biggest problem by Whitecloud · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How many passwords have you got? turn on pc, open email, encrypted files, bank account login's, ftp login's, forum memberships, the list goes on. How many have you forgotten? We need a better authentication system than text passwords. Security agencies have developed stunning biometrc identification technologies, perhaps these could be put out for the general public to use?

    --

    Do you need a website upgrade?

    1. Re:entering passwords is the biggest problem by Liselle · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Problem I always have with biometric identification is that it lacks something that passwords have: I can change my password, but I can't change my fingerprints. It's both more secure and less secure at the same time. Not better, just different, imo.

      --
      Auto-reply to ACs: "Truly, you have a dizzying intellect."
    2. Re:entering passwords is the biggest problem by Tim+C · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The good thing about passwords is that they can be changed if forgotten or compromised. If a system that uses biometric information is compromised, you don't have that option - I can't change my retinal pattern or finger prints.

  12. Why should passwords be difficult to guess? by crow · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm confused as to why you would care how strong the passwords your users select are. As long as you control the authentication system, you can prevent repeated guessing--the days of globally-readable encrypted password files are gone. If you get more than a small number of failed guesses on a given account or from a given address, you cut off access, at least for a time.

    The key is to detect the attack.

  13. Use these... by mcgroarty · · Score: 5, Funny
    These are the best passwords ever:
    jieph9Ee eik4zahW que8aiQu wahK6pee nie1eCho aNg2raew
    exeif0Ta ooqu9Aye Eid7iici eiZ6boin Waeg5kah Mi9vegoh
    eelae9Oo Ua7yojie Jiquaud5 Vohw7iwi Eit7laax Aesae2ax
    They are relatively random, easy to remember (you can kind of pronounce all of them), and best of all, nobody has guessed a single one of them yet. I've been using these for years, and you should too!
    1. Re:Use these... by scottme · · Score: 2, Funny

      Damn you! How did you guess my passwords? I have been using these and others like them for years, but now I see I was only kidding myself when I thought they were secure.

      Still, plenty more where those came from.

  14. I sense a good social engineering technique here by Spatula+Sam · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Hello, I'm doing a study for the Cambridge University Computer Laboratory on passwords..."

  15. Revolutionary... by danielrm26 · · Score: 2, Funny

    What's next? Long passwords better than short ones?

    --
    dmiessler.com -- grep understanding knowledge
  16. a couple things i do by millahtime · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There are a couple things i do....

    1) On my servers te password changer forces them to not use dictionary words, has to have numbers, letters and nonnumeric characters, and they can't use their previous so many passwords
    2) For my password I use a few things from my childhood that no one will ever come up with.
    3) There is nothing like keeping up on your security patches.

    1. Re:a couple things i do by jhkoh · · Score: 3, Informative
      and they can't use their previous so many passwords
      I have a friend who worked on a system with a similar restriction in their password-changing policy. So, when the system forced him to change his password, he just changed it "so many" times until it let him go back to his old one...
  17. Make the attacker work a thousand times harder? by arvindn · · Score: 2, Insightful
    That will never be possible, considering this.

    Seriously, even if you are using something other than passwords, say biometric authentication, security will remain as shabby as it is today unless users understand the importance of keeping the system secure. And that is a tall order.

  18. like this? by porcorosso · · Score: 2, Interesting

    declare @consonants char(20),
    @vowels char(5),
    @password varchar(255),
    @length tinyint -- passed to sp

    select @consonants = 'bcdfghjklmnpqrstvwyz',
    @vowels = 'aeiou',
    @length = 8 -- maximum of 254. any more will overflow

    while (@length > 0)
    begin
    select @password = @password + substring(@consonants, convert(int, ( round (rand()*100/5, 0) )),1)
    if (@length > 1)
    begin
    select @password = @password + substring(@vowels, convert(int, ( round (rand()*100/25, 0) )),1)
    end
    select @length = @length - 2
    end

    select @password

    --

    Silpon Designs
    Scented Paper Products
  19. Random Passwords aren't the problem by Stargoat · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The problem isn't with passwords. The problem is with the 40 year old women in the office who use their kids names over and over with different numbers at the end of the password, and then write even that simple to remember password down at their desk. The problem is with an HR department that doesn't care if IT policies are enforced, and management that doesn't care if HR isn't doing their job.

    If IT keeps warning, they're told to stop worrying. If something happens, IT is blamed. These morons (leaders) need to figure out that IT isn't something that helps them do business. Their business runs on IT. Without it, they have no business.

    --
    Hoist Number One and Number Six.
    1. Re:Random Passwords aren't the problem by ImTwoSlick · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The real problem is the forced password changes every 90 days (for me), and the half-dozen (at least) passwords I have to change every time. Thank God my IT doesn't check for reused passwords, or I'd have to resort to writing them all down, or picking insecure sequences.

    2. Re:Random Passwords aren't the problem by Gorbag · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Random passwords, password aging, etc. are indeed the problem. The human element is a constant, and humans aren't that good (these days) at memorization. So all you are doing by assigning a random password and/or aging, is making it more likely (bordering on certainty) the password is going to get written down and sticky taped to the monitor.

      Catchphrases are far easier to remember, and simple mapping of words to punctuation symbols and numbers can go a long way to personalizing even a catchphrase. IT should train appropriate passwords, and run crack to catch problems.

      --
      -- I speak only for myself
    3. Re:Random Passwords aren't the problem by hal2814 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      One of our computer systems requires changing passwords regularly. The people at our office have tendency to write down a list of as few unique passwords as they must provide and "hide" this list either under their mouse pad and taped to their monitor. Some even have an arrow pointing to the current password. I feel much safer about the security of our other system that doesn't enforce changing passwords. At least then the hacker must look at a family album to determine the password instead of just looking under the mouse pad.

    4. Re:Random Passwords aren't the problem by Bronster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If IT keeps warning, they're told to stop worrying. If something happens, IT is blamed. These morons (leaders) need to figure out that IT isn't something that helps them do business. Their business runs on IT. Without it, they have no business.

      Actually, you're wrong. It's people that the business runs on in almost all cases. IT is a tool that makes people so much more efficient that processes now assume that it's available and most of those people don't know how to function without it (and more to the point the information they need to operate is stored in it rather than kept in folders on their desk where they could get at it).

      A design where authentication is centralised to a secure enough server and that authentication attempts are throttled so that guessing attacks are restricted means that you don't _need_ such a draconian password policy. My work uses RSA SecureID for all logins from outside the corporate intranet. Within the intranet we're a little soft and squishy, but that's considered a lower cost than the cost of having to tell people their passwords all the time. And yes, we do have password policies, but they're not insanely complex.

    5. Re:Random Passwords aren't the problem by Planesdragon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem isn't with passwords. The problem is with the 40 year old women in the office who use their kids names over and over with different numbers at the end of the password

      (Why the slam on 40 year olds?)

      Anyway. The problem is with passwords--the fact that you're forcing someone who really doesn't want to and shouldn't be made to into picking a password. You should just randomly assign one, give it to the person, and tell them that this is THEIR password until it gets compromised.

      The 40-year old woman remembers her PIN, her SSN, and her street address. She can remember a "Strong Passsword"--she just can't choose one.

    6. Re:Random Passwords aren't the problem by hackstraw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem isn't with passwords. The problem is with the 40 year old women in the office who use their kids names over and over with different numbers at the end of the password, and then write even that simple to remember password down at their desk. The problem is with an HR department that doesn't care if IT policies are enforced, and management that doesn't care if HR isn't doing their job.

      <sarcasm>
      Yeah, I'm a super for an apartment complex, and I have these problems all the time. These fucking 40 year old women use thier kids names as their passwords to get in their apartments, and then complain to me about how getto the apartment complex is because their apartments get broken into all the time. These dumbasses also have me call up tow trucks and passwordsmiths all the time because they cannot remember thier password for their car. I keep telling them to make better, easier to remember passwords, but they are all just morons.

      A buddy of mine is a super at another apartment complex, and they still use "old school" technology like keys to get into their apartments and cars, and they rarely if ever have these problems.
      </sarcasm>

      The moral of the story is that there are such things a physical tokens, smartcards, etc that can provide keys to authentiate people to access computer systems. I hate to break it to you, but username/password schemes only authenticate usernames and passwords.

      The only thing that has not been worked out cleanly with keys is revocation. Any ideas here?

    7. Re:Random Passwords aren't the problem by ericspinder · · Score: 5, Insightful
      The real problem is 30 day password expiration. Short password expirations are (I believe) the largest security hole in IT. On the user side, most people don't cannot keep coming up with new complex passwords every few weeks, they know that they will forget, so they get into the habit of writing down the password, or trying to create a "moving password scheme" that is easier to remember. Also is a problem is the lack of a consolidated logon, meaning that the current password will not be updated in multiple distributed systems. Many users who "follow policy" and fail to keep mental track of their password are heavy users of password reset, which creates "social engineering" problems.

      Password reset is the number one help desk issue. All you need is some basic information about the user and a cracker could get the password reset to whatever they want. It's tough for companies to make resets as tough as they really need to be, the cost would be too high.

      I believe that the best solution is to enforce complex passwords and allow those passwords to last 6 months or longer.

      --
      The grass is only greener, if you don't take care of your own lawn.
    8. Re:Random Passwords aren't the problem by Aapje · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem is with the 40 year old women in the office who use their kids names over and over with different numbers at the end of the password

      No, the problem is with the password police who requires those women to change their password every month. While that theoretically improves security, in reality it makes it worse because people are prone to forgot their changed passwords and thus write them down. That is not the user's fault. That those 40 year old women can't remember their passwords, especially when they change every month, is a fact of life. Ignoring that fact, changing the situation from bad to worse, means that you are stupid, not the users.

      </end rant about stupid sys admins>

      Anyway, if you really cared about security, you would use smartcards, fingerprints or whatever. Passwords for regular users are about as secure as locking your front door and putting the key under the mat*.

      *In a place I worked someone used 'secret' as a password and shouted it across the room. And yes, it was a 40 year old woman. ;)

      If IT keeps warning, they're told to stop worrying. If something happens, IT is blamed. These morons (leaders) need to figure out that IT isn't something that helps them do business. Their business runs on IT. Without it, they have no business.

      Sure, management is ultimately responsible for everything. But often, IT can also be blamed for not being informative enough. In the case of security, you should ideally have made a comparison between the security mechanisms and offer your boss a clear choice:
      - Passwords without enforcement/whining = little security + easy for users
      - Passwords with user enforcement = some security + hard on users
      - Chopping off a finger for every bad login attempt = good security + lawsuits
      - etc...

      Spell it out and get management to agree what your job is, what others should do and what things can still happen. Of course, then management can still be unfair, but you will be happy knowing that you are being professional.

      --

      The Drowned and the Saved - Primo Levi
    9. Re:Random Passwords aren't the problem by Nick+Harkin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Keycards I guess, you can revoke them remotely, many hotels revoke the keycards every week, if you are staying for more than one week, a minute at the front desk is all that is needed to re-encode the card with the new details.

    10. Re:Random Passwords aren't the problem by Xenographic · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you're going to write it down anyhow, at least tell them to keep the paper in their wallet.

      It's more likely they'll take care of it, then.

    11. Re:Random Passwords aren't the problem by SiggyRadiation · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Reading this article I remember a time -when I was still an application-manager for a large hospital- when I went to a small department to instruct a group in using the application.

      It went something like this:
      - Me: "What are your usernumbers? "
      - Women of the group: "xxxx, yyyy, zzzz, dddd, ffff"
      - Women: "Do you want our passwords too?"
      - Me: "No, I just need your login-info so I can fill in the necesarry forms."
      - Women: "It's okay, we all share the same password, you can have it."
      - Me [frowns]: "You shouldn't do that, and I don't want to know what your password is. If I don't know your passwords I cannot be blamed for anything that goes wrong when one of your accounts is used"
      - Woman: "No, it's okay, the password is 'fill-in-a-simple-4-letter-word"
      - Me: flabbergasted. Surrenders. Gets on with instruction.

      Before I left that place I should have written a simple script that processed through all accounts trying just a few (not more than 10) password like diskette, floppy, computer, etc. etc. It would have probably hit 25% of users. It wasn't part of my job though and would have probably led to me being suspected of cracking-activity.

      luckily there were also other security-measures in place....

      Siggy.
      --
      This unique sig is intended to make this user more recognisable.
    12. Re:Random Passwords aren't the problem by the+chao+goes+mu · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Worse, irregular password change schedule ( different cycles on different machines, some with longer or shorter periods) and different password policies on each machine. (No fewer than 8 chars, no more than 8 chars, must have a numeric, cannot begin with a numeric, can't contain certain characters... )

      --
      Boys from the City. Not yet caught by the Whirlwind of Progress. Feed soda pop to the thirsty pigs.
    13. Re:Random Passwords aren't the problem by RKBA · · Score: 3, Funny
      No, the problem is with the password police who requires those women to change their password every month.

      You mean like Mordac ?

    14. Re:Random Passwords aren't the problem by stilwebm · · Score: 2, Informative

      This brings up the interesting debate of whether shared authenications systems are more secure or less secure. If you had only one password for all 6+ systems, you'd probably see much less reuse of old passwords. On the other hand, having someone's password could me access to 6 different systems on a variety of platforms.*

      *It is idealistic to think that a single authentication system will be shoehorned in to every system used in many enterprises. More than likely at least some application will not be able to use the networked authentication for one reason or another.

    15. Re:Random Passwords aren't the problem by harmlessdrudge · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The moral of the story is that there are such things a physical tokens, smartcards, etc that can provide keys to authentiate people to access computer systems. I hate to break it to you, but username/password schemes only authenticate usernames and passwords.

      Hello? Physical tokens authenticate physical tokens--unless combined with something known only to the authorized user (two factor authentication).

  20. Use passphrases instead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Back in the days of limited capacity, 8 or 10 character passwords made sense. Today, there's no reason why we shouldn't be moving towards pass phrases of 20-50 characters. How difficult would it be for someone to remember "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times." as their password, and yet, how difficult would it be to crack a 52 character password?

    It's really just a matter of changing mindset to use passphrases instead of passwords.

  21. Re:Size of Study by Glonoinha · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Statistically speaking, a 400 person focus group is going to so accurately represent the population from which they were selected it is almost overkill. Bear in mind, however, that they don't represent users in general, but computer users that are smart enough to get into college, aged roughly 18-19 years old, and open minded enough to participate in a college survey regarding passwords on computers.

    But yes, 400 people is way more than enough - heck you can usually predict the outcome of most elections using exit polls asking less people than that.

    --
    Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
  22. The #1 cause of poor passwords by Shimmer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Most of the time, people just don't care. And why should they?

    I probably have 200 passwords floating around in cyberspace, and 90% of them are "password". For example, I have to supply uid/pwd in order to read the Washington Post (my local newspaper). Is it important to keep this password secret? No, because I'm not very worried about someone reading the newspaper under my name.

    Unless I have confidential personal information at stake, I am not usually motivated to create a strong password.

    So, sysadmins, if the security of your overall network is more important than Joe User's individual data, you need to enforce strong password rules. Relying on users to create strong passwords voluntarily under such conditions is foolish.

    --
    The most rabid believers in American Exceptionalism are the exact same people whose policies are destroying it.
    1. Re:The #1 cause of poor passwords by Inda · · Score: 2, Interesting

      We have a vBulletin board with 2,500 members. 5% of those members have passwords hashes that match:

      a
      1
      12
      123
      1234
      12345
      123456
      1234567
      123 45678
      123456789
      1234567890

      A few others use the name of the site and the word "password".

      They don't care. That is true.

      --
      This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
  23. Randon or mnemonic? by spidergoat2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It just doesn't matter. It still going to be written on a yellow sticky and stuck on the screen.

    1. Re:Randon or mnemonic? by gnu-generation-one · · Score: 2, Funny

      "It just doesn't matter. It still going to be written on a yellow sticky and stuck on the screen."

      So set somebody's password to "don't forget to pick up the kids from school", and don't let them change it.

      The next person to get an account gets a password of "phone message from john"

  24. Re:The best security by Allen+Zadr · · Score: 2, Interesting
    It doesn't take much processing power to send SPAM. You'd be surprised at how little is desirable.

    All your i286 are belong to us.

    --
    Kinetic stupidity has a new brand leader: Allen Zadr.
  25. Phonetic Passwords by N8F8 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I used to work on a military installation with really elaborate guidelines for choosing passwords. It would usually take me at least a dozen times to choose a valid, unused password. My buddy had a trick that would get him a good password every time. Being fluent in Korean, he would come up with a phrase in Korean and spell it out phoenetically to produce a new password. I wonder how many foreign language workers in the US do the same thing?

    --
    "God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
  26. Brute Force Attacks by Afty0r · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Perhaps I'm crazy but I've always felt an application which allows a brute force attack is flawed.

    Surely by this point in software development it should be regarded as standard for every program to LOCK access for a given account after X consecutive failed logon attempts?

    Even setting this to something arbitrarily high like, say 1000, is more than any user would ever try before asking for help, but much MUCH MUCH less than any dictionary attack would require. Combine this with the possibility of real time notification for admins (facilitated by email/inter application messaging, or a small add-on service for the OS) when more than Y accounts are locked for this reason in Z minutes, and as a community we'd effectively end all dictionary attacks - or at least turn them into DOS attacks, but at least we'd know it was going on...

    1. Re:Brute Force Attacks by wwest4 · · Score: 4, Informative

      > LOCK access for a given account after X consecutive failed logon attempts ...
      > han Y accounts are locked for this reason in Z minutes, and as a community we'd
      > effectively end all dictionary attacks

      The problem with this solution is that so-called "dictionary attacks" are virtually never carried out using the target's manual authentication mechanism, or even their enrcyption library functions (which are usually deliberately performance-crippled). Any brute-forcer worth its salt (heh) is run on a fast, private computer with an optimized hashing function on hash data that is pulled off of the target wholesale.

      In addition to, and more important than, the methods you describe, users must use better passphrases, policies must be enforced, and the authentication schemes used must become more robust (larger key size, multi-layer security, OTP, etc).

  27. good password generation by CharAznable · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I find that a good way of generating passwords is to come up with a sentence or a phrase that makes sense to you, take the first letter of each word, and then 1337 it up. For instance, Windows XP loves the Sasser worm becomes: WxP175W It's cryptic enough and easy to remember

    --
    The perfect sig is a lot like silence, only louder
  28. My password method by gosand · · Score: 4, Informative
    I have been able to successfully remember randomly generated passwords, but once they slip your mind - you are screwed. My password method is this:

    1. generate a password using some word algorithm: I was born on a Monday = "IwboaM"
    2. come up with some kind of replacement strategy: w=m, a=1. IwboaM = Imbo1M
    3. bookend it with the year you were born: Imbo1M = 19Imbo1M69.

    It looks totally random, but there is a method to the madness. If you need to change it, you can just inc the year, or use some other rule on it. The strength is that you completely make up the rules, and they don't have to make any sense. All you have to do is remember the original phrase (easy) and your rules (easy to complex).

    (and the example I gave is completely arbitrary)
    You could also do one where your password is the answer to the question. Remember the question "What month was I born?" Answer: October
    Password starting point = HalloweenMonth. Then apply crazy rules to it. In this way, you can write down your reminder phrase "Month born?" and it is nowhere near what your password is.

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

    1. Re:My password method by maximilln · · Score: 2, Funny

      Writing random passwords has always been my personal policy. The password must be a mix of upper and lower case letters with at least 2 numeric digits and a length of at least 6. I try never to have the numbers next to each other but this happens on occasion.

      The trick is then to remember the passwords. My own personal systems at home have root and at least two users with login, ftp, and samba passwords for each. There are also e-mail passwords, /. password, various internet service passwords, and passwords for websites. At work I have at least five passwords directly related to work and another dozen or so which log on to websites for work-specific information. With so many alphanumeric passwords the memory task is a large load for even someone with a super-human memory.

      My personal system has been to give in to the necessity of writing all of the passwords down. Cleartext passwords would defeat the purpose of the complex passwords so I keep an encryption algorithm in my head. I have four or five encryption algorithms in my head that I use. Which algorithm is used for any particular password is usually noted using a cryptic set of symbols next to the u/p combination on the paper. Thinking ahead reveals that a dedicated stalker might be able to cross reference the encryption algorithms as they're noted on the paper (much like cross-referencing databases of cookies which "do not store personally identifiable information") so I also have a store of null symbols which I scatter over the pages. I have also briefly experimented with letting the meaning of the symbols change relative to their page position but this has caused a fault more than once.

      Needless to say such a complicated system is not foolproof. At least a dozen times I've found that the encryption algorithm in my head doesn't correctly translate the information on the page. Usually I find that I'm "one-off" in either the translation or the algorithm used. Fortunately I have never permanently locked myself out of an account. It usually takes a day or two of trying different combinations before I get the "eureka!" and enter the correct combination.

      The tin-foil in my hat still nags me that all of this effort is wasted, though, since the NSA has secretly contracted with all manufacturers to install hardware keyloggers on every keyboard manufactured since 1995. They access the 1mb keyboard cache using backdoors, built into all computer BIOS chips since 1995, similar to the superuser backdoors built into Cisco equipment.

      --
      +++ATHZ 99:5:80
    2. Re:My password method by deadlinegrunt · · Score: 2, Funny

      1. generate a password using some word algorithm: I was born on a Monday = "IwboaM"

      That's what I do with all my passwords, for example:

      People Always Suspect Secret Words Or Random Dates
      Wait a minute, D'oh!

      --
      BSD is designed. Linux is grown. C++ libs
  29. Keyboard patterns? by Amoeba · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm sure I'm not the only one who occassionally uses keyboard patterns for passwords. I'm not talking qwertyuiop or asdfg (obvious) but things like !@()ZX>? Hell, half the time I remember friend's phone numbers by the way you punch in the numbers. Sometimes when asked what a number is I'll even do the "phantom phone dial finger wiggle" so I can recite the damned thing.

    Looking at the above example it appears to be a password which follows the "strong password" methodology but have there been any studies on the effectiveness of using such a method? I know there are dictionary-based attacks which have some of the obvious patterns (qwerty, poiuy etc) but is such a method random *enough* to be feasible?

    It seems to me that it would be much easier to train users to use a muscle-memory-like password than picking some word out of their ass. The human brain has one seriously developed pattern recognition/matching capability... why not use it?

    Amoeba

    --
    Do not taunt Happy-Fun Ball
    1. Re:Keyboard patterns? by Sheridan · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I use randomly generated passwords.

      I used to use a little Tcl/Tk script that I hacked up to "train" myself on them until the muscle memory for the password kicked in. The script is available here in case anyone is interested.

      Nowadays I switched to using PasswordSafe to store a whole bunch of passwords, and now rely on its random generation instead (I keep meaning to modify my pwdrill.tcl script to allow me to enter the "random" password to train on manually, to minimise the number of times I have to look the PW up in passwordsafe before the muscle memory kicks in.)

    2. Re:Keyboard patterns? by schmiddy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'd be careful of this. My last year of high school, we had a really terrible CS teacher we all hated. We set up L0phtcrack on one of the lab computers to sniff for his windows login password. So we got his hash that day, and had some trouble cracking it at first.. we were afraid we'd have to resort to brute force. Fortunately, as a last resort, someone got a really huge dictionary file from somewhere, and one of the terms matched the password. Know what it was?

      mnbvcx (look at keyboard)

      I'm not sure why the dictionary had it in there, but it did. Turned out, he also used it for his email as well. We had some fun. I checked recently, and apparently he still hasn't changed his password.

      Moral of the story? Maybe enforcing a 90+ day password switch isn't all that bad, and if you're admin'ing a server with many users that you need to keep secure, run regular audits on your /etc/shadow or whatever password hashes.

      --
      http://cltracker.net -- powerful craigslist multi-city search
  30. passphrase passwords by thogard · · Score: 2, Informative

    Some people have been claiming that using things like "fsa7ya" or "4sa7ya" as the 1st letters of "four score and 7 years ago" is a good way to make up paswords. I've got a friend who has a dictionary of about 20,000 such phrases and it took a few of us about a half hour to find a common quote that wasn't in his list. He also happens to have a 50 word lists that is very effective at brute force attacks.

  31. a password policy I've been dying to implement... by rivaldufus · · Score: 2, Funny

    1. password must be at least 64 characters long, with no dictionary words, and at least 8 special characters
    2. Passwords expire in 24 hours
    3. Account is locked out after two mistakes
    4. A given character may be used only once in a particular password (No repeated characters)
    5. Account locks out on second attempt

    I'd love to see someone implement this policy at some corporation - just so long as I'm not the administrator there.

  32. Physical tokens are better by Slick_Snake · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Use of a physical token combined with an easy to remember pin is more secure than passwords. Since pin numbers tend to be short there is no problem with choosing them randomly. Furthermore with a limit on the number of failed attempts before disabling the token you make it nearly impossible for someone to break in.

    Looking at through cynical eyes it doesn't matter how secure your method is because, you are ultimately placing trust in the typical user who will most likely do something stupid when given the chance.

    1. Re:Physical tokens are better by Fizzl · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Like this?

  33. Read Lots Of HP Lovecraft For Password Ideas by pandrijeczko · · Score: 3, Funny
    After all, with creatures like Cthulhu, Nyalarthotep, Tsathoggua, Hounds Of Tindalos, the Wendigo, etc., there's plenty of scope for non-dictionary passwords and I've never seen a Cthulhu mythos word file for password crackers...

    ...having said that, with having uttered these names so frequently in the past, I now have a large black tentacle growing from the back of my neck and keep seeing strange shapes lurking in the shadows...

    Gibber...

    --
    Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
    1. Re:Read Lots Of HP Lovecraft For Password Ideas by Dun+Malg · · Score: 2, Funny

      Heh. Yeah, my sig is a veritable GOLD MINE of passwords.

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
  34. Mnemonics questionable by Anixamander · · Score: 5, Funny

    My menmonic, which should have been hard for people to guess, was "Please ask sister sally where's our rottweiler dog"

    And the thing is, we didn't even have a rottweiler, it was a shepherd. But people still guessed it, so I don't use mnemonics anymore.

    --
    Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball(TM)
  35. Re:The best security by the_mad_poster · · Score: 4, Funny

    So, basically, you're saying that Slashdot is impenetrable?

    --
    Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
  36. Re:Ha by kpharmer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I used to do that back in the USMC - I converted my walllocker combination to base 7 and then put that on tape on the back of the lock. Everyone in the barracks tried it and failed. Meanwhile I had a nicely documented combination. Of course, I suppose I was fairly lucky that nobody simply removed the tape - but the same combination was also in my wallet along with all my pin numbers. Again in base 7...

  37. Teach People the Drums by soloport · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Just use pattern passwords:
    1) Put both hands on our friend, QWERTY
    2) Move fingers into a natural, systematic position
    3) Bang out a pattern using all fingers
    4) Randomly include the shift key and those keys at the top, including the Back Space ;-)
    5) Keep hitting some keys even after you've hit Enter; Then hold the Back Space key (optional)
    6) "Practice, practice, practice!" so it can be typed very fast

    Results?
    * I rarely mistype a password
    * I don't know my own password
    * I couldn't share my password with security unless a keyboard was around
    * I type it in so fast, it would take a video recording to spy-capture it (me thinks)

    Of course, nothing can help you with key logging :-/

    1. Re:Teach People the Drums by Nick+Harkin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, key logging can be gotten around, if you click around windows, or even within the actual password field, entering numbers in the wrong order....

      But other than that, your method works, I have a sequence of passwords I remember soley on how my fingers touch the keyboard, although I do still know what the password is, I don't even have to think about it to type it in.

    2. Re:Teach People the Drums by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 2, Interesting

      >Of course, nothing can help you with key logging :-/

      Ooh! Hack login.c to do a random keyboard remap just before the password gets typed, then reverse-map the result before hashing it. A software keylogger that looks at characters after scancode conversion will be hopelessly confused. A hardware keylogger will still work, but you'd have to do some work to put one in my laptop.

    3. Re:Teach People the Drums by E_elven · · Score: 3, Informative
      For the record, I hate ECODE. Try this diagram:
      1 2 3 4 5 * 7 8 9 0
      q w e r * * u i o p
      a s d * - * j k l ;
      z x * v b * m , . /
      (The asterisks and the hyphen form an 'A' there).
      --
      Marxist evolution is just N generations away!
  38. 6. The sixth folk belief... by cedmond · · Score: 5, Funny

    Using the term "folk belief" more than once in a paragraph can become very annoying. This belief is confirmed.

    --
    ----------------------------------
    I'd rather not take sides until I hear the monkey's version - PHB
  39. Message Boards by Allen+Zadr · · Score: 4, Interesting
    On a message board, I always use a fairly simple password, simply because it doesn't matter to me...
    If someone gets to post as Allen Zadr to slashdot, the worst that would happen is my karma would be burned. No big deal. I drop the account, start a new one, give Slashdot another 5 bucks.

    The passwords I use on anything important, are far more secure.

    For this reason, I would be far more suspicious of the 10% that use extremely complex passwords. Likelyhood is that those passwords will match their online banking account and work passwords.

    --
    Kinetic stupidity has a new brand leader: Allen Zadr.
  40. My password technique by ID_Roamer · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I read a story about a book method for developing crypto keys. It was a fairly common method in the past before computers. I thought about it and have used it for years for choosing my passwords. Then tend to be mnemonics, but I can right down a hint sheet that is pretty safe.

    It works like this. I choose a book at random from my work area, choose a page at random and then pick a line. I develop a mnemonic password from that line. If I need a hint, I write down the page and line number on a piece of paper, I can even stick it to my monitor if I need to. My average library of reference books at work is over 50 books. How big a hint to an atacker is 347 12? All I have to remember is what book I chose.

    My last job, my boss couldn't remember any password that wasn't part of his name until I introduced him to mnemonic passwords.

  41. Why should _you_ get to choose? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "However, both random passwords and mnemonic passwords suffered from a non-compliance rate of about 10% (including both too-short passwords and passwords not chosen according to the instructions). While this is better than the 35% or so of users who choose bad passwords with only cursory instruction, it is not really a huge improvement."

    The problem here is giving the users the ability to choose their password.

    ugh. Don't give users a choice. When their password expires, give them a new one. Let them hit the "re-generate" button until they are happy or tired.

    What really bugs me is that most ERP vendors don't recognize this as a problem. Most use screens/forms that have to be significantly customized to remove the "enter bad password here" choice.

  42. Passwords? More like words. by Sheepdot · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Let me give you some insight into how a 'cracker' looks at this since I just cracked an alpha-symbol-numeric Windows NT LM hash about an hour ago in about 5 minutes time. Your password isn't enough. You, as an administrator, have to get in there and modify the authentication scheme.

    Or use SHA2. Cause I don't have rainbow tables to crack that. Yet. For those of you who don't or cannot follow security, the new buzz is creating your own crack tables in a couple of weeks or months. There is more info at the project rainbowcrack page.

    The misconception that everyone has about passwords now (because we as sysadmins pushed it so hard in the late 90s, early 00s) is that alphanumeric is the way to go. With the advent of generating your own cracking tables, that is no longer the case anymore.

    An alphanumeric md5 set of rainbow tables can be generated in about a weeks time with a 2.4 ghz processor. That's my rough estimate based on the couple days it took me to make the alphanumeric one for LM hashes.

    I would highly suggest that if you want your users to come up with good passwords you have them make a "one-time" password, seed with a 20-character salt that looks like someone pounded the keyboard, and store it inside a SHA2 hash.

    A good administrator is going to salt their passwords with a string of characters that already satisfies the "alpha-numeric-symbol" requirement. If there is any reason to do something other than the first name of your child it is to stop coworkers or friends or people that already know about you.

    When using brute-force/guess method this is what I try first and my guess is that at least 1% of Slashdot fathers use this or a form of it as their pass. It's okay to be proud of your kid, but don't think you're honoring them by including them in your password.

  43. pwgen by jsebrech · · Score: 4, Informative

    You can easily generate mnemonic passwords using pwgen.

    It's definitely easy to remember mnemonic passwords. I've been able to not log into a machine for months, come back to it and remember the mnemonic password unique to that machine.

  44. Divorces and Passwords dont mix by MajorDick · · Score: 5, Funny

    Well when going through a really rough divorce (I had an easy one too) I was in serious fear , and justifably so of my Ex hacking accounts using some of my known Passwords , I like many others have a cycle of about 10 that are used interchangably. All these were , with the exception of 1 personal passwords. I found she was accessing my work mail and personal mail almost immediatley , Soooo I decided to have some fun with it, passing all kinds of bogus information into forged emails to myself. Then came court, she was ACTUALLY Stupid enough to bring up several points in court, my Attorney was aware and asked where she found this informationout, "Around, friends, etc" Bwwwahhaaaa talk about someone looking stupid she bought it hook line and sinker.

    Sometimes easy to crack passwords are a GOOD thing :)

    On another note, after I took her to the cleaners at court I decided to TIE one One, well....NEVER....and I mean NEVER....change you passwords while really drunk..it took me 2 days to reconfigure redit and reset all my passowrds I changed on that drunken celebration. I still have NO idea what some of them were or how I came to decide on their usage

  45. passflt.dll by Zog+The+Undeniable · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'd be interested in a password cracking study comparing passwords where this DLL was turned on (for Windoze domains) and where users are given a free choice. The DLL enforces stronger passwords, but IME few companies use it.

    --
    When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
  46. Password Security from the other end. by SammysIsland · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There are so many places online where i am required to use a password, and there are so many ways for those different accounts to be linked together with some form of datamining on the other end. What I am concerned about is malicious intent from the other end. How can i trust that insiders with access to these password databases don't use my password info to sign into other account i may have on the net (i.e. financial accounts)?

    I try to used different passwords depending on the level of trust i have for a certain company. For example, all of my banking passwords are different than say a password i would use to log into /. or hotmail. The problem with this is trying to remember which passwords are for which sites.

    Of course, i then run into the problem of accounts where i must change my password monthly or quarterly, and i can't use previous passwords. This seems to be another huge security risk (unless a strong form of hashing is used) as the system now has a list of all my previously used passwords, and once again i have more passwords to rememeber as i can no longer stick with the few i would like to.

    I feel that my passwords are relatively random and reasonably strong, and wish i could keep them. Does anyone what to test this theory and post AS ME from this /. account?

  47. Getting users to comply with password policy. by TheTXLibra · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Well, having been a System Administrator, I can sympathize with this plight. Even a small non-compliance percentage is a bad thing, since there's only about 50-million cracker tools that will give the list of usernames for the network. Here's a few things I can recommend. Most are common sense, but just in case, I thought it might help:

    1. Educate your users in 1337-speak. - You know, 3's as E's, 7's as T's, etc. Point out that they can make nearly any normal, easy to remember password more secure by using 1337-speak. This will help prevent tools like L0phtCrack from breaking the code in minutes, but rather might change it to days. I did a bit of security consulting and found this to be the easiest way of ensuring compliance at the user level. For added security, have them make phrases using the special characters. For instance $4Bugs is a rather secure six-letter password (though really I'd prefer 8+).
    2. Fear Works Wonders - Divulge that if their account is hacked because of a non-compliant password, the entire office will know of it, and they will probably be lynched, but only after the cracker has stolen all their bank account info and ss#. This may or may not be the truth, but the people listening to you say this are the same people who are using their CD-ROM drive bay for a cup holder.
    3. Tools a la Sneakers - Of course, you can turn on password enforcements, that's the first one. Now try to crack your own network. Not a Cracker? All right, then just go download YAPS, LANGuard, and L0phtCrack and run those. Yeah, they're only scripts, but unless your network has somehow garnered the attention of a serious cracker, the only ones assaulting you will be script-kiddies. So fill in the blanks, and see how your network holds up.
    4. Given Time, Serious Hackers Will Get In - There's only so much security you can have without just simply yanking the network from any outside connections. If the network you are supporting is government, big-money, or anything of interest to a serious hacker, it is only a matter of time. Forced PW changes (every 14 days) or so, will help reduce this chance a lot, but will also anger your users. But if passwords are allowed to sit for 30 days, and a compliant admin-access password only takes 25 days to crack, then it will be cracked.
    5. Sure, let them keep their PWs on stickies... IN A LOCKED CABINET - Most offices will give you a drawer with a lock on it. These locks are almost never used. Find the Facilities person for this office and get those keys. Let the users write down their PWs in a notebook or stickies, but make it clear they need to lock those books up at night or take them home. Getting a custodial job to crack a network by writing down PWs from stickies on the monitor is the oldest trick in the book (and by god, it still works great). If you catch someone with password stickies on their monitor, punish them.
    6. Breed ph34r and paranoia - I printed out some old WWII propaganda posters and changed the lettering on them to refer to passwords and security. It was fun, livened up the walls a bit in the office, and served as a subtle reminder to the users that SAM the Cracker was always out there, trying to steal their (fill in the blank). Of course, in truth, we only had one serious hacking attempt, but it was a lot of fun scaring them, and it made them more attentive to possible security breaches. Sometimes annoyingly so, but hey, we never got cracked in the time I was there.


    -The Libra
    "You've got no kids, no wife, no job, and you're not in The Tigger Movie!!!"
    - my best friend's son, Gabe, at 5 years old.
    --
    -The Libra
    "Please be patient--The future will begin momentarily."
    1. Re:Getting users to comply with password policy. by droid_rage · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't know how this got modded insightful.
      Response to #1: L0phtcrack and several other cracking tools have had character substitution methods for years. This method no longer works as a security measure.
      Response to #2 and #6: Breeding fear and paranoia through alarmist propaganda is a really bad idea, because there will always be enough people in that office who will know better, and it's better to have those people on your side rather than in contempt of you.
      Response to #3: These tools are not scripts, but rather auditing tools which still require some training to use correctly. For example, LANguard, just like Nessus and ISS Internet Scanner (which I've also used) can crash systems if you're not careful, and tends to return a substantial amount of false-positives, in my testing at least. BTW, 'cracking' the network with Yet Another Password Safe? Might be a little tough.

    2. Re:Getting users to comply with password policy. by krgallagher · · Score: 2, Insightful
      IMHO here is the most important part of the article:

      Compliance is the most critical issue. In systems where users can only put themselves at risk, it may be prudent to leave them to their own devices. In that case, it must be expected that about 10% will choose weak passwords despite the instruction given. In systems where a user's negligence can impact other users too (e.g., in systems where an intruder who gets a single user account can rapidly become root using well known and widely available techniques), consideration should be given to enforcing password quality by system mechanisms.

      Some people will never understand security. Don't let these people be a security hole. Let them be unsecure, but keep them off critical systems. The recptionists account should not be able to gain root access on your unix systems. It should not be a member of Domain Administrators on your Windows network. You should be able to withstand having an average users account being completely compromised without any risk to the network.

      --

      Insert Generic Sig Here:

  48. Alternative to memnonics -- pronounceables by 0x0d0a · · Score: 5, Informative

    I occasionally like memnonic passwords, but another good alternative is a randomly-generated but pronounceable password. It turns out that we're much better at remembering passwords that we can pronounce. (Where "Voolakun5" is pronounceable and "zqx17yvy" is not).

    FIPS-181 describes a NIST-endorsed system for producing pronounceable passwords. There is a GPLed FIPS-181 implementation here.

    Sample run:

    $ apg
    dyijenuloa
    bifliecar
    yishjied&
    IfHydrovia
    yutsOlg/
    DipUkcat


    APG is a lot more sophisticated than this, and allows you to do a lot of tweaking of the types of passwords it outputs, print pronunciation guides. It's a good tool, IMHO, for security-conscious types to have around.

    For Fedora Core 2 users, Red Hat does not package apg in the base distribution, but it is available from freshrpms.

  49. Combine random rubbish with memorable words. by xelah · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Give your user pieces of random rubbish, one for each login. Print these on something convenient (a credit-card sized bit of card, for instance) and give this to your user. Also ask the user to enter a memorable word.

    The password for a particular login is then the random rubbish for that login plus the memorable word. The memorable word can be the same for every login.

    A brute force attack remains unfeasible without obtaining the piece of card; not perfect but it makes it a good deal harder as it requires the physical presence of the attacker. At the same time the user is more likely to obey your instruction not to write their word down as there is only one, easy to remember word to remember.

    Stealing the password then requires both physical access to the bit of card and a brute force attack. That raises the bar quite a bit from needing only one of those two.

  50. reusing old passwords by jhagler · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The question I would like looked into is how many "old" passwords should a system remember and not allow a person to reuse.

    I'll give you an example, a place I used to work required all the standard things: caps, non-alpha, 90 day expiration, etc. but what bugs me is that your new password can't be the same as any of your previous 6. Now, I have three or four good solid passwords that meet (or can be made to meet) all those requirements, but when I have to come up with 7 different ones, they start getting weaker and weaker near the end. I know that in most systems you can just run through half a dozen passwords in about two minutes and get your old one back, but they also instituted a minimum age so you couldn't do that.

    All these things are generally considered good network security, at what point do you start doing more damage than good though? How many passwords does your system require, and does anyone else find themselves in the same situation I'm in?

    --
    Never underestimate the power of human stupidity -RAH
  51. Mnemonic passwords hard to remember? by pedantic+bore · · Score: 2, Insightful
    4. The fourth folk belief is that passwords based on mnemonic phrases are harder to remember than naively selected passwords.

    Is this a typo, or is there a new meaning of "mnemonic"? The whole point of mnemonic passwords is that they're easy to remember. That's what mnemonic means.

    --
    Am I part of the core demographic for Swedish Fish?
  52. I like that analogy by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Wonder how well it would improve secuirty at aparrtment buildings at houses if we required users to change physical keys every 90 days ... got to prevent someone from sneaking in every morning and raiding the cookie jar and kids' piggy banks.

  53. Use a "password wallet" by tentimestwenty · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If you have a lot of passwords, use a program to store them in encrypted form and have one good rotating password to open them all up. Ultimately I guess one of these could be cracked but it's a distant chance and thus a good compromise for someone who's got a lot to keep track of.

  54. As with a large number of problems... by 26199 · · Score: 2, Informative

    ...you can solve this one by throwing money at it.

    Buy one of these and relax. You'll never have to worry about passwords again.

  55. Great tactic for encouraging good passwords by Avumede · · Score: 4, Interesting

    When I was working at NASA, I was still using a very simple password consisting of a very unusual word plus a number. One day the sys admin sends me a mail and says "Hey, I cracked your password. You must be a fan of [band name who had a song by this title]". I was embarassed enough that I immediately changed my password to something much stronger, and use a strong password to this day.

    It works well because many people (myself included) just didn't get how easy it is to crack simple passwords until someone does it. If it's your friendly sysadmin, a normal desire to appear less idiotic is a sufficient motivator to choose a strong password.

  56. Slashdot passphrase by MoreDruid · · Score: 2, Funny

    IANAL&IneverRTFA

    Oh wait... did I just give away John Katz's password?
    --
    The best weapon of a dictatorship is secrecy, but the best weapon of a democracy should be the weapon of openness.
  57. Re:Multiword Passwords? by prandal · · Score: 2, Interesting

    oops, must remember to preview next time

    I've seen [dictionary word][non-alphanumeric character][dictionary word] (e.g. chrome=turnip) or even [dictionary word][dictionary word] (e.g. purplegearbox), where the concatenated words do not form a dictionary word. Googlewhackers could have fun generating (in)secure passwords along these lines.

  58. That article is so old it's grown whiskers ... by Dark$ide · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I've been citing that article as a good study of password quality for about six or seven years.

    This is hardly new research.

    --

    Sigs. We don't need no steenking sigs.

  59. Programmatic Enforcement by securitydude · · Score: 2, Informative

    You can get software to enforce the policy to avoid the 10% non-compliance mentioned above. In the Unix/Linux world, you can use something like NPasswd to do it. For you Windows' people, something like Password Bouncer would do the trick.

  60. my scheme by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    my scheme: math

    grab a simple equation:

    4+6=10

    spell out one or two words

    4+six=ten

    bingo. easy to remember, hard to guess.

    1. Re:my scheme by fiiz · · Score: 2, Interesting

      yeah, nice physics equations are quite useful too. I mean, you can use the LaTeX code for your favourite quantum mechanics equation, and you're pretty much sorted--especially if you add a dumb characters.
      I used to use e=mc2!! but it's easy to see that even a simple equation could be written in many different ways: e=mc^2, $e=mc^{2}$, etc etc with caps and all, or rot(13) or whatever.
      Of course, long variants of astrophysical fluid dynamics are advised for length...

      --

      yours ever, fz.
  61. NOT secure by IntelliTubbie · · Score: 2, Informative

    Basically it assigns random chars/numbers/symbols to each letter of the alphabet ... Now I print this nice little table and use it for passwords all over the place. For example I could just remember "slash" which maps to the password Z?+JTLZ?4&

    The table itself isn't a terrible idea, but where you really go wrong is printing it out. If anyone gets a look at your "alphabet," and you've used a simple dictionary password, then it's as simple as doing a dictionary attack -- just with your modified alphabet instead of the standard one.

    This is why, as the article states, user-devised password schemes aren't very good (although yours is probably somewhat better than many), as they only give the illusion of security.

    Cheers,
    IT

    --

    Power corrupts. PowerPoint corrupts absolutely.

    1. Re:NOT secure by John+Newman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I dunno, this kind of simple encryption doesn't seem too bad. Aside from social engineering, your two main worries are remote brute-force attacks and local unauthorized logins, right? The simple encryption makes any kind of brute-force dictionary attack very unlikely to succeed. Meanwhile, even with the chart in front of them, no one can just walk up and log on to his terminal. It's unlikely an attacker will sit in his chair for an hour and work out possible passwords.

      The only potential problem is if someone walks up to his desk, swipes or photocopies the chart, then uses the code in a remote brute-force attempt (assuming he also knows the poster's log-in). Again, doesn't seem likely, and is anyway solved by the poster printing out a new chart once a month - much more painless for him than picking out a new password.

  62. Mitnick today by SoTuA · · Score: 4, Informative
    is milking the conference circuit as hard as he can (it's how he makes his living now)

    He was briefly in Chile for a US$420 a seat conference, and the head of the Computer Science Dept. asked him if he could give the students a little talk.

    A representative answered exactly this:

    Thank you for your inquiry. Kevin is indeed in Chile next week-- and would love to address your students. He does, however, charge a fee for his presentations (it's how he earns his livelihood)--- A standard presentation is 45 min. long plus 15 min. Q&A and covers the information presented in his book, The Art of Deception. The cost for a presentation like that is typically $15,000 US; however, due to the fact that you are an educational institution and Kevin will already be in the area delivering his other presentation, I could offer you a discounted price of $9,000 US (a savings of 40%)plus any related travel costs to/from your organization to his hotel.

  63. Re: Remembering frequently-changing passwords by some+guy+I+know · · Score: 4, Insightful
    At work they make me change them every 30 days! There's no way I can memorize a good password that frequently.
    It's very simple.
    Take a song that you like, and use the first letters of each line as your password.
    If your password requires numbers or special characters, use the line number of the song, plus its shifted equivalent.
    If it requires both upper and lower case, use one upper-case letter, the same position each time.

    For example:
    A long long time ago,
    I can still remember
    How that music used to make me smile.

    Month 1: aLlta1!
    Month 2: iCsr2@
    Month 3: hTmutmms3#
    etc.

    Each year, pick a new song.
    --
    Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
  64. forced password changes by wk633 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Before implementing any security measure, one should ask "Why?" What is the hard reason? (not just feel good).

    When it comes to forced password changes, it's "Because the password may be compromised".

    So the next question is, if it 'may' be compromised, then how long are you willing to live with it compromised?

    And that is your password change rate. So, if you force password changes every 90 days, it means you're willing to live with passwords being compromised for 89 days.

    So what, force them every day?

    The real answer is that if you think your users' passwords are being compromised, then you need some other form of security. Forced password changes are changes for not reason.

    1. Re:forced password changes by julesh · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're missing the reason "because passwords can be cracked by brute force, but this generally takes some time to achieve".

  65. Re: Remembering frequently-changing passwords by nelsonal · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I use a modified method of this, picked it up here a few years ago. Pick a sentance from a big book (LoTR, Illiad, Odyssy etc) then take the first letters (Tell me Oh Muse...) Now if the word is a noun use the number of letters in the word, if it's a verb use the last letter, if none of these use the first letter of the word. From the line above you would have the password lmo4oti4wd3a4ahhdtf4o4. What you remember is, "Tell me oh muse of that ingenious hero who travelled far and wide after he had sacked the famous town of Troy." You have enough for two passwords there. If you wanted extra security you could add a rule to use the symbol (shift+number) of letters in pronouns or linking words. Feel free to improve on my letter swapping method, all that matters is consistency. This method has the advantage that you can leave your cypher book near the computer as long as and the basic scheme (and rotation frequency and method) is memorized.

    --
    Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
  66. Re:A note on hashing by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 2, Informative

    So my idea was to store a hash of the concatenation of the username AND password, ensuring with a high probability that no two hashes will be alike.

    Old way:
    I wonder if anyone's password is just 'password'.
    forall(user){test(user.hashedpassword = hash('password')}

    New way:
    I wonder if anyone's password is just 'password'.
    forall(user){test(hash(user.login + 'password') = hash('password')}

    2nd way requires more hashing to be done through the loop, but isn't really much harder.

  67. Re:pretty non-intuitive results? by jc42 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ... the real problem with passwords is nobody ever teaches anybody how to make a strong password that is easy to remember.

    Yeah, but there's something that makes it worse: Every time you have to make up a password, your first try is rejected because it violates the rules of that software. So you keep trying until you stumble across something that is acceptable.

    As a result, my file of passwords now has 68 entries, and that doesn't even include the half dozen logins that I use often enough to remember. I don't keep them on paper, of course. I keep them on my web site, so I can find them from anywhere. ;-)

    Of course, the file has a misleading name, is hidden behind a number of index.html files, and has a name that starts with a dot so that the server doesn't give it out even during server changes when the index.html files are sometimes ignored for a short time. I know I should still be worried about the URL being intercepted in transit. But so far, this is the best solution I've found to what is a rather intractable problem.

    The real problem is security dummies that impose such complex password rules on users that we are forced to resort to schemes like this to "remember" our passwords.

    --
    Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  68. about damned time by CAIMLAS · · Score: 2, Interesting

    3. The third folk belief is that random passwords are better than those based on mnemonic phrases. However, each appeared to be just as strong as the other. So this belief is debunked.

    Its always confounded me as to why people have insisted on this folk belief. I, for one, have always insisted that mnemonic phrases are no less secure than random numbers. (Likewise for the memorability vs. single-phrase passwords.) I'm glad there's finally some proof so that I can get people to use sane passwords (neither easy to guess, nor difficult to remember).

    --
    ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
  69. Ok, real world time! by Whatchamacallit · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Take if from someone whose been in IT for a long long time. User's are so sick of passwords they completely hate that they have to keep multiple passwords and then they hate it when the passwords expire.

    The password police are constantly tightening the password rules. It used to be 90 days till a password expired. Now it's 60 days. It used to be 6 characters now it's 8 characters. You used to be able to re-use an old password, now you end up having to wait until it's 15 passwords old before you can re-use it. All passwords must contain 8 characters and include at least one number. You cannot set a password that is too similar to the old one. Many words have been outright banned from use as a password.

    As an IT person with access to a lot of things, I have 28 different passwords just for work alone! There's about 8 mainframe ones, 4 PeopleSoft ones, 2 Windows Domain, etc., etc., etc. I actually set up an encrypted file on a USB pen drive that I unlock and reference when I need to see my password list. I have a couple of Mac's at home and I love the KeyChain solution!

    The average user has about 5-10 passwords they have to worry about. User's write them down, come up with elaborate rotation schemes, etc. Mostly they just call the Help Desk repeatedly because they lock themselves out in the process of changing their password.

    I am all for a smart-card or USB keychain along with a single sign-on system to everything. It would cut 600 calls to the help desk every month and it would make thousands of employee's very very happy.

  70. Re:how do you guys store your passwords? by Fortran+IV · · Score: 2, Funny

    National brand 31-120 Handi Notes notepad, 60 Sheets / 3 x 5 Narrow Ruled White Paper . Sanford Expresso Extra Fine in green or blue or Bic SOFTFeel Medium in black.

    --
    I figure by 2030 or so my 6-digit UID will be something to brag about.
  71. PasswordSafe by ronys · · Score: 2, Informative

    A solution that works for many is PasswordSafe. This is a small application that keeps all passwords encrypted (using the Blowfish algorithm). Entries are presented either as a flat list or tree, and double-clicking an entry decrypts the password and copies it to the clipboard. The project originally came from Counterpane, Bruce Schneier's company, and is regarded as a useful and secure application.
    PasswordSafe has random password generation that can be customized rather nicely.
    Of course, the PasswordSafe database itself needs to protected by a passphrase...

    [Disclaimer: I'm currently the project admin for PasswordSafe.]

    --
    Ubi dubium ibi libertas: Where there is doubt, there is freedom.
  72. Everyone has their own way of tracking passwords; by krinsh · · Score: 2, Insightful

    and everyone seems to have their own way of generating them. I know one person that uses license plate numbers he memorizes while on the highway. I use Cloak on my Palm to keep the 40 or so that I have to use to get my job done - yes, I said 40. I'm of the firm belief that none of these practices are secure at all. If it's a password; it will be broken eventually. Where I can use passphrases; I do. Even those can be broken given time. When they come up with reliable, inexpensive biometrics; and combine them with digital certificates or encryption keys (pick your flavor) - I think we'll be far more secure. I know that privacy can be an issue with biometrics but what if you encrypt the biometric data itself and don't make any of it personally identifiable except to its owner?

    --
    I think with the interesting people, their lives can't possibly be wrapped up into a nice little package.