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WB Using Game Reviews To Calculate Royalties

Thanks to The Hollywood Reporter for its article discussing Warner Bros. Interactive's decision to use average review scores in calculating the royalty rates videogame makers must pay to WB. The article explains: "Games based on Warner Bros. licenses must achieve at least a 70% rating [calculated via GameRankings.com and similar services], or incur an increase in royalty rates", with WB's Jason Hall commenting: "An escalating royalty rate kicks in to help compensate us for the brand damage... the further away from 70% it gets, the more expensive the royalty rate becomes... If the publisher delivers on what they promised -- to produce a great game -- it's not even an issue." However, Bruno Bonnell, CEO of Atari, makers of Enter The Matrix, which didn't include this contract clause, comments: "We sold four million copies. That's $250 million worldwide... and Warner Bros. would penalize us because we didn't achieve 70%? Are they joking?"

111 comments

  1. I would penalize them for Enter: The Matrix by jgoemat · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The game had some fun elements, but it wasn't really a very good game. I think it did hurt my opinion of The Matrix. Come on, 70% isn't that much to ask for.

    1. Re:I would penalize them for Enter: The Matrix by einTier · · Score: 3, Funny
      It didn't hurt my opinion of the franchise any more than the sequels did.

      For whatever that's worth.

      --
      -------------------------------------------------- $665.95 -- retail price of the beast.
    2. Re:I would penalize them for Enter: The Matrix by Pluvius · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Come on, 70% isn't that much to ask for.

      Only because scores are inflated most of the time. In a proper rating system, only 30% at most of games would get 70% or higher. (It would probably be much less because game quality is probably close to a normal distribution.)

      That's my problem with this, actually; you're giving the power to the media. How do you trust people who get paid by game developers for favorable reviews to be unbiased about this sort of thing? Not to mention the fact that the sample size is too small and doesn't have enough variety. If there was an easy way to know what the average Joe's satisfaction with certain games was, that would be much better.

      Rob

    3. Re:I would penalize them for Enter: The Matrix by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1
      Yeah, but the game was a bit of a precursor. Then the sequels nailed the coffin shut.

      All in all, this isn't a bad idea. I mean, come on,one of the big corps is actually going to assess their output using something other than the bottom line!

      Having said that, I foresee a rise in Game review payola. Anybody want to handicap various game reviewers and how much they can be bought for?

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    4. Re:I would penalize them for Enter: The Matrix by Dizzle · · Score: 1

      In a proper rating system? So according to you, in a proper rating system, 50% of students would achieve less than 50%. The rating is not indicative of the ranking of the game relative to all the other games out there, it is a measure of how perfect the game is. Is it not possible to have multiple "perfect" games, at least in theory?

      In cases like this, you need to look at the intent of the grading system. In this case it is to measure it against perfection or possibly to measure how bad the faults are. In other cases it is to sort a group of people or objects into ranking (first second third etc). Maybe it's to show how much better one thing is than another (a set of standards perhaps). In any case, the intent here is not to rank games in the bigger picture, but rather to rate them against themselves.

      --
      -Dizzle
      "I most likely AM so interested in myself."
    5. Re:I would penalize them for Enter: The Matrix by DeadboltX · · Score: 1

      " I think it did hurt my opinion of The Matrix"

      it hurt my opinion of the matrix less than the 2nd and 3rd movies did

    6. Re:I would penalize them for Enter: The Matrix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Is it not possible to have multiple "perfect" games, at least in theory?

      Actually, since any game could be somehow improved, it'd be impossible to have even one "perfect" game.

      Now, a game with a perfect rating, sure, but because your own arguement states that the rating should be based on the game's perfection, not its perfection as related to other games, it logically could not have a perfect rating because it could not be perfect.

    7. Re:I would penalize them for Enter: The Matrix by Pluvius · · Score: 1

      Actually, game ratings have nothing to do with how perfect a game is. A game that gets a 10 out of 10 in a review is not necessarily perfect, just better in all aspects than any other game that's out at the time (unless there is another game that is just as good, in which case that game would also get a 10). Ratings are necessarily subjective; you can't reasonably give a game a 10 unless you know that most other games aren't as good as it.

      Rob

  2. The fix is in by TerryAtWork · · Score: 4, Insightful

    or will be, shortly. Any time big bucks depend on some web site operator's opinion, that web site operator is going to get a great offer...

    Gotta start a game rating web site.... :-)

    --
    It's Christmas everyday with BitTorrent.
    1. Re:The fix is in by BinaryOpty · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Like IGN, Gamespot, and Gamespy don't already get under the table offers to give games better ratings. Read those sites once in a while and you'll realize bias that strong is most likely a paid bias.

    2. Re:The fix is in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MJ's been doing that for years. Have you seen all the deformative surgery he's undergone?

    3. Re:The fix is in by abandonment · · Score: 0, Redundant

      the REALLY brutal part about this is that the money that the publishers have to pay to the game magazines to get the good ratings ALSO comes off the revenue from royalties that the developers might (emphasis on the word MIGHT) make off of the game.

      so if you would have made $100,000 in royalties off a game (and this is probably high for a typical game, most don't see ANY royalties at all), suddenly you need to pay out an extra $100,000 in 'bribes' to get good ratings, otherwise the licensor docks you even MORE of your royalties than their corrupt accountants do already.

      it's a lose-lose situation for developers.

  3. 4 million copies is 250 million in sales? by vasqzr · · Score: 1

    Who's paying $62.50 for a game?

    1. Re:4 million copies is 250 million in sales? by chrismcdirty · · Score: 3, Funny

      Canadians?

      --
      It's like sex, except I'm having it!
    2. Re:4 million copies is 250 million in sales? by linzeal · · Score: 3, Funny

      Who taught the canadians about a monetary system, I've limited their influence to quebec and they are still in the neolithic age. At least in this Civilization game I'm playing.

    3. Re:4 million copies is 250 million in sales? by Impotent_Emperor · · Score: 1

      Revenue from rentals? Either they get a piece of the rental price or the rental places pay a lot more per video game, I'm not sure which.

    4. Re:4 million copies is 250 million in sales? by dyefade · · Score: 1

      The British?

    5. Re:4 million copies is 250 million in sales? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's 4 million worldwide, you ignorant jingoist.

  4. Yes! Hopefully... by Micro$will · · Score: 3, Funny

    this will be expanded to gamers as well. If your game sucks, you must pay me royalties to play it.

  5. As long as it goes both ways... by Mike+Hawk · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What happens when the game publisher alledges the IP owner let the brand go to shit? Make a crap game, licensing fees go up in real-time, let the original go to crap, licensing fees go down in real-time. Both parties are accepting significant risk so just write it into the contract. Sounds like good business to me.

    1. Re:As long as it goes both ways... by AltaMannen · · Score: 1

      something like this you mean: atvi vs star trek

    2. Re:As long as it goes both ways... by Reeltime · · Score: 1

      Agree, the movie studies need to account for their own mistakes. It goes deeper than this, but you're on the right track. I've posted an in-depth editorial that may be of interest:

      An Open Letter to Warner Bros. Interactive

      Think it would work? I'd love to get feedback.

      --
      -=Gamewatcher at BusyGamerNews.com
  6. Not joking! by Tom7 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "We sold four million copies. That's $250 million worldwide... and Warner Bros. would penalize us because we didn't achieve 70%? Are they joking?"

    Math aside, the Matrix game sucked, and I don't think I'll ever buy any more Matrix games. It absolutely makes sense that bad games should be responsible for brand damage.

    1. Re:Not joking! by oskillator · · Score: 1

      Math aside, the Matrix game sucked, and I don't think I'll ever buy any more Matrix games. Exactly! And the method makes perfect sense, because it's being used to determine the royalty rate for future games.

    2. Re:Not joking! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering how stupidly bad the movies are, were you really surprised?

      Not to denigrate the apparent new age religion of jackass junkie shit consumers, but the matrix movies are about on par with star wars. Entertaining, mindless, pseudo-serious fluff. I'll go grab my half-baked philosophy elsewhere, thank you.

    3. Re:Not joking! by anthony_philipp · · Score: 1

      no thats bullshit, its the publishing companies that take the risk in hopes of profiting. its a gamble for them, they invest in a game, advertise for it and then if it makes money, they make a lot, if not, they loose money. but in either case the publisher makes the decision to invest or not to invest.

    4. Re:Not joking! by Frizzle+Fry · · Score: 1
      but the matrix movies are about on par with star wars. Entertaining, mindless, pseudo-serious fluff.

      This is an argument against him being disappointed in the games. You really think it was unreasonable to expect that something "entertaining" and "mindless" would translate well into a game??! I suppose you are sitting around waiting for an xbox version of the great gatsby?
      --
      I'd rather be lucky than good.
    5. Re:Not joking! by Tom7 · · Score: 1

      That's right, and in this case the publisher is making the assessment that the traditional model doesn't work (because it's too hard to tell whether the game will be good before it is released), and stipulating new contract obligations in order to mitigate that risk.

    6. Re:Not joking! by bigman2003 · · Score: 1

      Dude...that was funny...Xbox version of Great Gatsby...

      Just trying to imagine how that would work...but that is just a funny thought...

      --
      No reason to lie.
  7. In other news... by Reorax · · Score: 1

    ...Warner Bros. is refusing to pay any more royalties whatsoever to anyone remotely related to the last two Matrix films, citing the "brand damage" clause in their contract.

    --
    This sig is only here so people stop skipping the last lines of my posts.
    1. Re:In other news... by spir0 · · Score: 1

      since when does the license holder pay royalties to companies for use their brand?

      --
      The reason girls and Windows users don't understand UNIX is because all the documentation is in Man files.
    2. Re:In other news... by protektor · · Score: 1

      I would assume that royalites would be paid out to the Wachowski Brothers for their scripts and their piece of the "Matrix" pie that they own the rights to.

      I assume you are saying now that Warner Brothers is saying that the Brothers damaged the Matrix brand that they (WB) owned a huge portion of and thus aren't going to pay out to anyone who has damaged the brand.

  8. Good medicine by BW_Nuprin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As someone who has worked on crapped-out shovelware licensed GBA games, I believe this is very good news. Often times the license games skimp on design phase and go straight to development, usually using a cookie-cutter engine and game mechanics from a previous title. With some penalties in place, perhaps companies will spend more time thinking about how they can make "Michigan Frog Racing" fun, or just find something else to do if they can't do that.

    1. Re:Good medicine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how they can make "Michigan Frog Racing" fun

      Pfff, everyone knows that MFR is just Frogger with bigger guns and a deathmatch mode.

  9. Make it a double edged sword. by BurritoJ · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think that a brand damage clause is reasonable. If for no other reason than the selfish desire to see fewer braindead/marketing driven tie-ins. The clause should cut both ways though; if the game is awesome and wins GOTY or similar awards then the royalty rate should be reduced commiserately.

    burritoj

  10. Very reasonable by JMZero · · Score: 5, Insightful

    At one point, "The Matrix Online" was a game license that was very valuable - a marquee game. There was a lot of goodwill out there. "Enter the Matrix" exchanged a lot of that goodwill for money (as did the last two movies).

    Now they could have got money out of that franchise with anything from any developer. But if the game was excellent, they would have retained a lot more goodwill - and possibly helped maintain the franchise in the face of the lackluster sequels. That could have been worth much, much more than these sales figures.

    Look at the value Ubi Soft has created in the "Prince of Persia" franchise. PoP was dead, no value. Now it has lots, even if Sands of Time didn't sell as well as it should have. Sega is still milking Sonic the Hedgehog on the basis of a couple good games a decade ago.

    These things have tremendous, very real value. It makes sense to protect this value via contract - and pegging things to game reviews is as good of an idea as I can think of.

    --
    Let's not stir that bag of worms...
    1. Re:Very reasonable by Kanasta · · Score: 0, Redundant

      maybe i should start a review site then.

    2. Re:Very reasonable by Frizzle+Fry · · Score: 1
      PoP was dead, no value

      No vaues?! The name was obviously not as valuable as the Matrix, but the fact that it was a new Prince of Persia games was certainly one of the things that got my attention and made me interested in the game (and glad it did; that game was awesome). I'm sure that's true of at least some other people as well.
      --
      I'd rather be lucky than good.
    3. Re:Very reasonable by DeadScreenSky · · Score: 1
      The name was obviously not as valuable as the Matrix, but the fact that it was a new Prince of Persia games was certainly one of the things that got my attention and made me interested in the game (and glad it did; that game was awesome). I'm sure that's true of at least some other people as well.

      Me too, but let's not delude ourselves into thinking that a lot of the current gaming mass market remembers (i.e. has even played) the original series (or hell, let's just hope they forgot the terrible earlier 3D version of it). It probably helped build up preview/review hype though, since the average videogame reviewer at least should be a fan of the series.
      --
      There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion. -- Francis Bacon
  11. Great Idea by Dr.+Bent · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm for anything that discourages the production of video games based on movie/tv/book franchises.

    Video games are interactive. The "story" is told by the user and the charecters are defined and developed by playing the game (at least, in a good game, they are). When you have the baggage that comes with charecters that have already been defined by movies, television, or books, you take away power from the user for no good reason whatsoever. The less of these types of games there are, the better.

    Oh, and yes...I'm aware that I can't spell.

    1. Re:Great Idea by obeythefist · · Score: 1

      I'd beg to differ there, to an extent.

      I would say that a vast majority of the TV/Movie franchise games out there are terrible, so what you're saying makes a lot of sense and the points you make are valid.

      Having said that, there are some significant exceptions. One of the greatest space combat sims I've ever played was X-Wing. X-Wing built a lot on the existing Star Wars franchise, but the gameplay was incredible. The game initially appealed to people because the franchise is very compelling, people know about the universe and the X-Wings and the Tie Fighters and so on, but the gameplay was what kept people coming back.

      Unfortunately, the X-Wing series took a nosedive when they didn't revamp the engine enough, X-Wing vs. Tie fighter was a little clunky and rushed out the door, and the publishing houses opted to use a new, arcade style engine (starfighter), which was a dismal disgrace to computer games. Also, space combat sims don't really have a place on consoles with those gamepads.

      --
      I am government man, come from the government. The government has sent me. -- G.I.R.
    2. Re:Great Idea by cr0z01d · · Score: 1

      I'm for anything that discourages the production of movies based on books/short stories.

      Movies are audiovisual. The "story" is told by the use of composition, lighting, sound effects, and music. When you bring the baggage of literary devices, such as omniscient narration, metaphor, or wordplay, you're taking power away from the director for no good reason whatsoever.

      As games become more mature, game designers will develop more techniques to translate traditional linear stories into a non-linear interactive format. Saying that in a video game the story is defined by the user is dishonest -- at least when comparing games to traditional storytelling.

      In a game, there are goals defined by the programmers. These goals are usually quite limited. Most games, even the good ones, don't give the player a chance to express motivation in-game. The player only expresses action. This is not a limitation of the medium as the players motivation is merely expressed outside the game, in the player's mind. The only part of the game's story that changes is the actions taken. Games give a more personal experience than anything else short of reality, in spite of the pre-determined stories.

      Some day, games will likely exist where the story changes to fit the user. Today, and for the forseeable future, a game's story is a network of objectives and obstacles. Unlike a traditional story, the objectives and obstacles are limited by the sophistication of computers. Unlike a traditional story, goals are connected by a network rather than in a sequence. These differences don't seem major enough to warrant stories' total exclusivity to one medium.

      I personally think that many years from now, games will be seen as the ultimate medium for serious expression and storytelling. However, the failure of movie adaptations to games is more a symptom of economics than problems with the adaptation process. When a game publisher has two titles with problems costing, say, an estimated additional $50k to fix (each), one title being licensed the other original, the publisher will often spend the money on the original but not on the licensed title... even if there is enough money for both. Why? Because licensed games have the marketing power of an entire franchise! Warner is trying to tip this offset by adding a new term to the equation.

      This probably came of a little condescending, but that's just because I'm thinking out loud. Yah, it's also poorly written, but I'll save my effort for stuff people might actually read.

  12. Paying for Quality v. Paying for Reviews by superultra · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The biggest problem with Hall's manifesto is that he's not paying for quality, he's paying for good reviews. There's a big difference. While there is usually correlation between a truly good game and the reviews, particularly when using meta ranking sites, it doesn't always match up. Take Black & White, for example, which was highly rated by the press. Two years later, B&W was lauded at by the very same magazines for its overwhelming boredom. Or Deus Ex 2, which also received comparetively high scores from the media but among fans and consumers hurt the Ion Storm brand far more than it helped? Good reviews does not always equal quality. More importantly, ti doesn't always equal sales either, and quite practically that's what Jason Hall should be most concerned about. Would more people have bought Enter the Matrix had it been a decent game? Probably. Does Enter the Matrix hurt the next Matrix game? Unarguably. But you can't chart the quality of a game with game reviews alone. Relying on those is too simplistic, and too impractical.

    If Hall actually gets to put this into place - which I doubt he will - why wouldn't Developer X unofficially bring on Mr. EGM Reviewer as a "consultant," with the thanks taking the shape of an HDTV? Allowing game reviewers to ultimately dictact the size of multi-thousand dollar royalty paychecks is a big mistake. I read game magazines all the time, and with the rare exception it's pisspoor writing stitlted with poop and boob jokes. I wouldn't trust them with determining my family's income, so why is Jason?

    1. Re:Paying for Quality v. Paying for Reviews by ArmpitMan · · Score: 1

      You'd be surprised how many things in business are done, not because they're the right way to do things, but because they can be easily measured. It's really rather frightening.

  13. Enter the Matrix a Good Example by mmport80 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Enter the Matrix is a good example why this is a good idea. Atari could have put anything out and earned a fortune. In fact this is done with many brands - back in my gaming hay day THQ were infamous for this.

    It's a great idea, as it protects the brand by discouraging game publishers trying to make a quick buck.

  14. Too true by Scorchio · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I don't doubt it. I hate to be cynical, but those "Best of E3" lists they were all posting looked more like lists of "publishers and developers we hope to be securing advertising revenue from real soon now".

    Games reviewers are not only running the risk of losing advertising income from publisher whose games they game poor ratings to, but they're potentially damaging future relationships with that publisher. The exclusive previews of a new game may well go to a competitor who game a less damning review.

    I remember a game I worked on in the mid 90s - one magazine gave it around 40%, another magazine gave it 92%. The difference? The journos from the second magazine were treated to free dinner and beers. It really is that skewed.

    1. Re:Too true by gl4ss · · Score: 2, Interesting

      been to gamespy owned sites lately?
      me neither, because it's fucking full of crap.

      the ass licking that came few years ago(8+) into magazines has in the past years crawled into high profile web sites as well, they MUST provide "oh this is going to be good" shit for the gaming houses in order to get their review copies early enough, not only that but they essentially base reviews entirely on preview information provided by the game developer. and yes, they can't rely on that because PR data doesn't include anything about actual gameplay or showstopping bugs!

      all this while putting a review up on the internet costs next to nothing... as things stand at the moment is that the best place to find information what games to _buy_ is from warez boards(they're the first with the _real_ reviews and mentions of annoying bugs)..

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    2. Re:Too true by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, if you're on the warez boards, you probably aren't buying software to begin with.

    3. Re:Too true by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      * Of course, if you're on the warez boards, you probably aren't buying software to begin with.*

      for the first few weeks the software is available on store shelf they're THE place to look up for solutions to problems.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    4. Re:Too true by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd say I'm heavily into the warez scene, at the same time, I end up buying a new ~$40 every couple weeks. Sure, I have a few games that I haven't paid for, and those are the ones that definitely didn't deserve money. Examples: Enter The Matrix, and Simpsons Hit and Run immediatly come to mind. Games I have bought in the past 3 months: Painkiller, FarCry, NWN: Shadows of the Undrentide (I waited because no expansion should cost more than $20...they really didn't need to develop any new stuff, just play with their toolkit to make it), Battlefield Vietnam, UT2004, and Call of Duty. Have I already downloaded a copy of all these games? No, but I have downloaded a copy of 4/6 because I wanted to make sure they'd be worth it. For the record, I preordered UT2004 the day the demo was released cause I was that happy with it, and Bioware is just incredible so I had no worries there. I also have preordered 3 copies of Doom3 cause I wanted all the promotional things, and I'm buying one for a lan tournament prize. I know I'm not that unique in the warez scene, don't be so quick to assume we're all evil sons of bitches.

  15. Revolutions by Drakon · · Score: 1

    The Matrix: Reloaded and Revolutions hurt the brand MUCH more than Enter The Matrix could have. Besides having a much larger exposure, they were also much worse, in comparison.

    1. Re:Revolutions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or for that matter, is it not possible that the Wachowskis' involvement in the video games also hurt the games? They are movie directors, not game designers.

  16. Oh, great by 0x0d0a · · Score: 5, Interesting

    That is bad for end users.

    The consumer is best off when reviewers are impartial and unbiased.

    We already have to deal with product managers doing everything they can to convince reviewers to give high rankings to sell product. The video game industry suffers particularly much from this, with game publishers taking reviewers (often young people that are not paid much for their review work) on special trips or given gifts. It's hard to find a good, unbiased source of reviews.

    So now, there are two more variables -- reviewers are *directly determining* income of developers, and one movie publisher now has incentive for rankings to *drop* if they are near the 70% mark.

    This reminds me of an article I read once before -- I believe that it might have been a MacUser article by Andy Ihnatkno. Andy was reviewing a software package, and was contacted by the product manager at the developer early in the week, asking
    how the review process was going. Now, normally Andy wouldn't say anything, but the product manager was insistent, and finally he reluctantly said "Well, I would have liked it if you hadn't forced me to do task X manually." The reviewer thanked him and hung up, and Andy got back to reviewing.

    Next morning, Andy recieved a package via courier. It contained a new version of the software package, and a handwritten note from the product manager -- "I hope that you'll consider trying this version". It turns out that this version contained the automation feature that Andy had mentioned that he missed. That afternoon, the product manager called up again and asked "What do you think of the product?" Andy again mentioned something that the product didn't do, and next morning, another brown package arrived via courier. Andy thought "You know, this really isn't how the review process is supposed to work" -- but the software *was* getting better. Some poor developer had clearly spent a frantic 24/7 over the weekend adding and testing code. This continued on for a bit, and finally Andy finished his review -- giving the software package a good rating.

    This is, surprisingly, a bad thing for the end user. Yes, the software package had some new features when done, but here is the problem. A reviewer will only find a certain percentage of the lacks in a software package -- some will go unnoticed. The user depends on the reviewer reviewing the entire package based on his analysis of the lacking features and bugginess of a subset of the package. The reviewer's opinion can then be extrapolated to the entire package. If the developer can change things as the review is happening -- something like a student changing stuff as his professor is grading his assignment -- this leads to a disproportionately good subset of the product and an inflated rating.

    Furthermore, it's already a hard thing to pan a product, knowing that it will cut into sales -- publically criticizing people is something that humans don't like to do. How much harder will it be to pan the product of someone like Will Wright, which the reviewer might know personally, knowing that there will be a *direct* impact on the income of that developer?

    I could see reviewers refusing to review products where their ratings are used in such a manner as a policy. This can only tend to distort ratings and increase pressure on them to mis-review products.

    My guess is that this may be an attempt to help compensate the movie publisher if the movie publisher was the one that did a good job. Enter The Matrix, the game in question, has frequently been criticized as being a bad game. The reason that it sold well may be more due to the efforts of the movie publisher than the developer -- heavy marketing effort from the movie, and a good movie coming out.

    This pay-based-on-review policy will tend to decrease royalties for licensed games (especially movie releases). These are frequently done on an extremely tight schedule to ensure a game release shortly after a hit movie. This tends to mak

    1. Re:Oh, great by Have+Blue · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I wouldn't have any complaints about that Inhatko story if the final, well-reviewed featureful version became the final version of the product as well (i.e. the one sent to all the people who paid for it). If the reviewer used the product normally, as the vast majority of buyers would, then it's extremely likely that his suggestions improved the product for the vast majority of users, and his good review would be reflected in their experience. If he was using only a subset of the product as you suggest, or was using it in an unusual way that most people would not, then it's as much his fault as it is the company's.

  17. Okay by me. by xanderwilson · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If it encourages developers to spend less time and money on crappy media-tie ins and more time on original stuff (and above-average media tie-ins), I don't care if WB or any other conglomerate wants to shoot themselves in the foot.

    As a fan of certain properties (certain comic books for example; WB owns DC), I'm crossing my fingers that there might finally be some incentive to do a decent job with the characters I want to see. So bad news for the WB as they try to find someone to make another Superman game. But good news for players if we ever see another Superman game in stores?

    Unfortunately for the developers, though, game reviews are too arbritrary a test. And sales don't necessarily have everything to do with quality. It's the excitement of the (first) film that sold Enter the Matrix, not the quality of the game. That first film is also what sold the sequels, but that's another topic.

    Alex.

  18. Great tool... by Quarters · · Score: 2, Funny

    for any reviewer who has an axe to grind against a given game developer.

    1. Re:Great tool... by AltaMannen · · Score: 1

      And which reviewer doesn't have an axe to grind about those selfish developers, who keeps making all those mainstream games not paying enough attention to the proper color of blood in their games?

  19. No sir, the joke's on US. by misfit13b · · Score: 1

    That Enter the Matrix game sold because of the movie. There was nothing special about the game itself, and thus deserved the 67.

    Talk about developers losing perspective. I'm still waiting for a half decent Simpsons game. Oh no, wait a minute. I'm not. (Hit and Run fans need not apply.) You need more than to use a good licence as a crutch, people. Get used to it. Make better games.

    (Of course, it's also laughable that an article in the "Hollywood Reporter" failed to spell Richard Roeper's name correctly...)

  20. I've got a better idea... by HotNeedleOfInquiry · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "An escalating royalty rate kicks in to help compensate us for the brand damage...

    How about compensating the ripped-off consumer that paid 49 fsking bucks for the lame game in the first place.

    Oh, and I see you also sell CD's. How about compensating the ripped-off consumer that paid 16 fsking bucks for the lame album that had one good cut.

    Do I sound angry? Do I sound ripped-off? Better pull your head out of your ass, mr record/game company executive before it's too late.

    --
    "Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
    1. Re:I've got a better idea... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do I sound angry? Do I sound ripped-off?

      You sound like you shouldn't have bought the $49 game and the $16 CD in the first place. Ever consider that?

    2. Re:I've got a better idea... by Dizzle · · Score: 1

      I don't see any obligation for them to pay you back. Allow me to play devil's advocate for a moment. [Ching ching ching] Alright, what were we talking about? Right. Games/CDs. Support the independent game developer and the independent artist. Give them your 15/8 bucks or whatever. Wait for reviews to games (maybe even on ones that you positively KNOW will be good... I'm thinking B&W here) or CDs. Ask your friends for their opinions about the items.

      The point is they didn't lie to you. If you had purchased a car that was sold as 20mpg and you get 1mpg... complain. You deserve to be refunded because you didn't get what you were told you would. But in this case, Atari/WB isn't saying "You will like this game!" or even "This game is good." They aren't providing a guarantee on their merchandise and as such, don't owe you anything.

      But if you're selling a used copy of Enter the Matrix...

      --
      -Dizzle
      "I most likely AM so interested in myself."
    3. Re:I've got a better idea... by HotNeedleOfInquiry · · Score: 1

      You are absolutely right. They do not have an obligation to payback the consumer. But what bugs me is that it's the consumer that gets ripped. If the game was so bad that it damaged their franchise, shouldn't they test market it before they let it go out the door and have consumers waste $250 million buying it? You see, the pigs shouldn't be able to have it both ways. If they want a quality game, it's their responsiblility to make sure it's quality before it ships.

      I maintain that if their franchise was damaged, consumers got screwed. Plain and simple.

      --
      "Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
    4. Re:I've got a better idea... by Dizzle · · Score: 1

      The franchise was damaged, sure, but it isn't your franchise, so that's really a moot point. There's one glaring flaw in your logic though: you didn't have to buy the game. That's how capitalism works. If people don't like the game, they don't have to buy it, and it will sort itself out.

      What needs to change is what defines mainstream in the first place. If we have a market of people buying games simply because of the franchise upon which it's based, then we'll never win because the publishers know they can put this stuff out without hard work. If we as the public are gullible enough to buy a game for the name, that's our fault.

      --
      -Dizzle
      "I most likely AM so interested in myself."
    5. Re:I've got a better idea... by HotNeedleOfInquiry · · Score: 1

      There's one glaring flaw in your logic though: you didn't have to buy the game.

      Of course I didn't have too. But I did because of the franchise. That's the whole point. If they want to be proactive about the quality of the franchise, they should do it before they damage it and screw consumers with shitty games. The trouble is that the pigs want it both ways. They want to throw everything out and see what sticks to the wall and screw everything else.

      I do understand where you're coming from with the capitalism thing. I just don't see that shipping shoddy games then whipping the developer is the ideal long-term business model, even in a capitalist environment.

      --
      "Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
    6. Re:I've got a better idea... by scabb · · Score: 1

      If you're unsatisfied with a game or CD, simply delude yourself into thinking that it's great and that you definitely got your money's worth. Amazon is a good place to help you along with this denial. Simply find the customer reviews for your item, skip past all the negative ones and try to agree with all the five star ratings, no matter how badly punctuated and fully "capped" they are.

  21. Interesting idea... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is an interesting and valid idea, if its inherent flaws could be worked out. I'm glad WB recognizes the tendency for licensed games to "suck", but I wonder if they recognize that LICENSORS (ie: themselves) are often to blame for that?

    10 years ago I was Producer on several games based on WB licenses, and I can tell you, all they care about is how it looks and how accurately their IP is depicted, etc. They end up with their hands in everything, and if their decisions affect gameplay, so be it. They aren't gamers. They don't recognize that gameplay comes before visuals. It's very difficult to make an innovative game when you have this group of non-gamers telling you what you can and can't do with their characters.

    1. Re:Interesting idea... by NickFusion · · Score: 1

      Amen, Brother!

      Been down that path. They are a big PITA to work with, for exactly those reasons.

      Also comments like, "Make it hipper...edgier."

      (Can you make it vauger, more nebulous?)

      But don't discount license games (even on the GBA). Yeah, there is a lot of crap, but so many get made that there is a new school that looks on these arbitrary character sets and rules as a jumping off point for making some interesting, well designed games.

      Sadly, it seems GBA reviewers are folk who feel that being a GBA reviewer is a punishment, and spend as little time with the game as possible. It makes the gems harder to find.

      --
      What were you expecting?
    2. Re:Interesting idea... by gid-goo · · Score: 1

      That seems like the biggest problem to me. As long as they give the developer enough leverage to make the game great. But if it comes out and WB spent all their time sitting in the developers office making game decisions they don't have any right to do anything with the royalties except suck it up.

  22. Brand damage? Try "Reloaded". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > It absolutely makes sense that bad games should be responsible for brand damage.

    The Matrix sequels were responsible for brand damage.

  23. This is as ridiculous as... by CodeMonkey4Hire · · Score: 1

    ...running an election American Idol style. How are they going to prevent stuffing the ballot box? Worse yet, why wouldn't WB want to stuff the ballot box themselves? This just sounds dirty.

    --

    Let's go Hurricanes!!! 2006 Stanley Cup Champions!!!
  24. Hurting the developer by Scorchio · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is a unsubtle way of shifting even more of the financial risk of a project onto the developer rather than the publisher, especially the smaller teams who are relying on any profits to keep the place running for another six months. Anyone who finds this clause presented to them in a contract should make sure there are counter measures against the publisher imposing any of the following:

    - An insufficient budget, forcing the developer the cut features that make the distiction between a good game and a average/mediocre game.

    - Design changes at later stages or without renegotiation of the schedule and funding. Forced changes from those without a full understanding of the game can easily muddle the gameplay and result in a poor final product.

    - A too short or too rigid deadline, forcing the developer to submit an unfinished or unpolished title.

    It's all too easy to perceive the situation where WB or a similar publisher enforces situations like these resulting in an average (50%) game instead of a good (75%) game. They then pull out their own increased royalties and profit, leaving the developer with a smaller than expected sum that may not even break even.

    1. Re:Hurting the developer by analog_line · · Score: 1

      Warner Brothers isn't the publisher. It's the licensor of the intellectual property.

      If better games get made because of this, I'm all for it. Who wouldn't want better games?

      If fewer games get made because of this, I couldn't care less. There are already more games out there than I will ever be able to complete in my lifetime.

      If "respected" game reviewers get paid off to give a game a good review, I'm all for it, because I will be able to safely ignore 100% of the game review magazines and websites for the rest of my life, and be free from their inane ads forever.

      I hope this catches on.

  25. joking!?! by vijaya_chandra · · Score: 0

    "We sold four million copies. That's $250 million worldwide... and Warner Bros. would penalize us because we didn't achieve 70%? Are they joking?"

    This guy would be in serious trouble if the warner bros demand a minimal royalty of 35% of the sales for any game that doesn't meet their 70% mark

  26. What about the dissenting opinion? by hal2814 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Who can forget the insanely high review that Gamepro gave to "Street Fighter II: Special Championship Edition" for the Genesis? I remember that sparking a whole slew of conspiracy theories that Gamepro was paid off by Capcom. Can you imagine the reprecussions of a reviewer who happens to disagree with most reviewers on a game now that future royalties are on the line? It would give the payoff conspiracy theories a lot more credibility since there would be a concrete link between the review and the revenue the game generates.

    NOTE: I really don't want to start a flamewar over a 10-12 year old topic so if you think that SFII:SCE was the cat's meow then I apologize for making your blood boil, but there were many SF2 fans who owned a Genesis (including me) who feel that we were given an inferior product compared to the SNES version which scored lower.

  27. Game reviewing by JMZero · · Score: 1

    I think game reviewing isn't quite as high-level as it should be - but it's something. DX:IW got decent reviews (4 stars-esque) - and I don't think it was unfairly overrated. Hardcore fans may not like some aspects - but its a solid game.

    B&W certainly was overrated, but only just after its mega-hyped release. It's probably the best example I could come up with to highlight bad game reviewing. In some sense, though, I can't really blame the reviewers for this one - as I liked it too until I'd played for a while.

    If Hall actually gets to put this into place - which I doubt he will - why wouldn't Developer X unofficially bring on Mr. EGM Reviewer as a "consultant,"

    Royalty percentage is a big deal - but not nearly as big a deal as sales are, and those are already influenced by game reviews. Some game reviewers are already up for auction, and there's already plenty of bidders (either directly, or via threats to cut off advertising).

    It's impossible to keep reviewers from being subject to this kind of problem - it just needs to be managed.

    --
    Let's not stir that bag of worms...
  28. Issue regarding Quality / Controll of Franchise. by sirrube · · Score: 1

    I actually did not even bother to look at Enter the Matrix because I doubted that Atari could provide a quality game. I think the franchise holders should encourage quality franchise spin offs such as video games and punish low quality spin offs that may damage the franchise. I think this should go the other way for games made into movies. Every company that has a valued franchise such as the matrix or LOTR or Sesamie Street wants to protect the franchise and keep it from getting over saturated or devalued. In this case Atari/Infogames who I belive releases games that are not ready to be released can damage a franchise. If there was to be a next movie/next game people wont buy that next game because they blew $50 on the first one and it sucked. Temple of Elemental Evil, Masters of Orion 3 are games that I am aware of that Atari has taken a successfull franchise and basically drove the franchise it into the ground in a single release I for one wont buy another atari sequel to those games. As video games / movie / entertainment intergration becomes more frequent, not only franchises need to be protected but also the stars that will be acting in them . Think Jet Lee in the video game rise of honor, or the french actor Jean Reanau. These actors don't want thier image to be tarnished. Bottom Line: If the video game companies promise smashing games they should make smashing games for successfull movies. Not release crap just because they know people will buy the games based on the success of the movie or vice versa.

  29. Delays delays delays.. oh yah and cancellations by CokoBWare · · Score: 1

    This will only manage to delay decent games, cancel mediocre games, and developers who are just trying to ear a decent living will get their asses handed to them because the game designers haven't a freaking clue how to put together solid content... oh yah and it will be all management's fault.

    1. Re:Delays delays delays.. oh yah and cancellations by wolfmanXUG · · Score: 1

      Well I do not think this will fly very well or for very long. I would not agree to that if I was a game maker thats for sure. WB does not pay out royalties based on reviews of its movies, but on how much it makes and the percentage that is in the contract.

  30. Ways out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It may seem like a good idea to someone who believes in economic models, but there are many ways to play this game and win.

    If Warner Bros wants better games it should require mandatory quality control, not better reviews. Reviews are out of the hands of the game producers right now and that's good. If reviews became so important, which many publishers believe they're not, then developers would find ways to put control of reviews in their hands. It's their financial future, right? I sure as hell would want some control of it. But with mandatory quality control it's just another mechanism that you're still in control of but will give feedback to make a better game. I say to Warner Bros if you care so much about your property you should make a division that works with game makers and ensures the games are up to mustard. If you can't do that I don't think you can expect the developer to do much better anyway.

  31. This would be great.. in a perfect world. by AzraelKans · · Score: 1

    Yes I think game developer should get rewarded (or penalized) over the overall score the game received not just its sales. After all a game with a good score will sooner or later be picked up and score more sales, while a game that got good initial sales but sucks (ussually a franchise) will have great sales the first weeks then be abandoned and ultimately sold at retail. Its a no brainer.

    Unfortunately we dont live in a perfect world. What would happen is:
    Developers of bad games who sold great will state "are you kidding?" and remind the companies they just made millions of bucks in revenue, then reminded them they couldnt have AS much if development time had been stretched and quality had been increased "It would have cost 3 million more! so that would be 3 million less in revenue!" then laugh all the way to the bank.

    And come on guys use your head! if developers would get better revenues for getting good reviews they would PAY for good reviews! (supposing magazines and websites arent doing that already) "IGN: ETM oh incredible! game of the year! a perfect 10! please pay this guys more! I need a new car!"

    Is a good theory, but in practice is just a cheap move by warner to get more dough from this guys And knowing a bit about laws, I dont think it would work. This would have to be authorized by both parties at contract sign and NO sleazy game developer would sign this sort of deal.

    --
    Go ahead MOD my day!
    More opinions here
  32. Re:Issue regarding Quality / Controll of Franchise by AzraelKans · · Score: 1

    Interesting idea, but you are missing one point: franchise owners DO have a chance to evaluate products which will use their seal and are completely able to stop the process if something is out of place. It may break your heart but Lucas DID aproved and helped that super Bombad racing game featuring jar jar and friends.

    --
    Go ahead MOD my day!
    More opinions here
  33. Re:Issue regarding Quality / Controll of Franchise by sirrube · · Score: 1
    You are right and you raise a valid question who is ultimately responsible for the success of the game. Ultimately it relies on the creative direction, if the franchise owners are responsible for producing the game then they would be responsible for its success or failure. If the game company contracted to develop the game then by all means they should be rewarded for its success or failure. You get what you pay for.

    You can develop something quickly.

    You can develop something cheap.

    You can develop something bug free. You can only pick 2 out of the 3

  34. Wow, I'm impressed! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This looks like a nice way to help ensure the developer is always screwed by the publisher:

    - If the game sells well, but reviews badly, we will punish you for damaging our brand.
    - If the game reviews well, but sells poorly, we'll let you have a bigger share of bupkiss.
    - If the games sells poorly and reviews badly, we will rub salt in your wounds by punishing you for damaging our brand by giving you a smaller share of bupkiss.
    - And if the game sells well and reviews well...well, we'll think of some way to screw you later - but for now, here's a bigger slice of pie for you.

    Nice to see someone stacking the deck even *more* in favor of the publisher... ;-P

  35. The movie sold your game then... by king-manic · · Score: 1

    "We sold four million copies. That's $250 million worldwide... and Warner Bros. would penalize us because we didn't achieve 70%? Are they joking?"

    In this case, the movie promoted and sold the game and the game studio had little or nothign to do with it's success. Because the game was buggy and crap but the licence sold it. So they should penalized.

    --
    "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
  36. Unbiased web ratings, yeah right. by johankohler · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Gamerankings.com has an interesting page where you can see the average rating of a game review site.
    I belive that these numbers should be around 50% but they are around 75%

    Link

    1. Re:Unbiased web ratings, yeah right. by Trillian_1138 · · Score: 1

      I think part of the problem is that (for whatever reason) there is a perception that anything rated below 70% is not worth playing, and that 80% is the minimum of a really "good" game. The problem is that cuts out 70% of the review spectrum. Currently, a game rated at 50% is probably rather bad, when 50% should really be 'average.' By making 70% 'average' it means reviews have that much less specificity when comparing games.

      Maybe it has something to do with how tests are graded (with 70 or 80 being a 'passing' grade), but I think it's time for reviewers to throw out the old rules and come up with a better system for judging how games do.

      -Trillian

  37. Anyone else by TechniMyoko · · Score: 1

    Think this is an awesome idea? Now developers will be forced to, I dont know, make good games. Albeit they aren't forced totally, but if more channels/networks would follow suit And enter the matrix was horrible, atari shouldnt be allowed to make games anymore.

    1. Re:Anyone else by superpulpsicle · · Score: 1

      Woah hold your nugget there for a second. Atari do make some good games. Just Enter the Matrix was the biggest marketing joke since frogger 3D.

  38. Matrix brand was damaged. by MBraynard · · Score: 1
    However, Bruno Bonnell, CEO of Atari, makers of Enter The Matrix, which didn't include this contract clause, comments: "We sold four million copies. That's $250 million worldwide... and Warner Bros. would penalize us because we didn't achieve 70%? Are they joking?"

    Mr. Bonnell made a game that sucked royally. He did severe damage to the brand in that if the game was decent, a sequel could be made that would do equally well. Also, the game would have sold much more than 250mil if it had gotten a good review - I would have bought it. But the reviews STANK so I didn't. Mr. Bonnell should be fired for his lack of intelligence in recognizing this.

  39. Re:Issue regarding Quality / Controll of Franchise by 0x0d0a · · Score: 1

    I for one wont buy another atari sequel to those games.

    And there you have it -- Atari is *already* being punished for poor quality standards.

  40. Bruno Bonnell also said by PhotoBoy · · Score: 1

    After saying: "We sold four million copies. That's $250 million worldwide... and Warner Bros. would penalize us because we didn't achieve 70%? Are they joking?"

    Bruno went on to elaborate: "I mean, seriously, if we'd bothered to fix all the bugs, sort out the half finished textures and play tested the damn thing we couldn't have released the game until after people had seen Matrix Revolutions. Who'd buy want to buy the game after seeing that train wreck?"

    Unfortunately Bonnell was unable to continue as he was late for a session swimming in his money pit.

    Is it just me or is the gaming industry so cynical now that they don't even care to hide the fact that they want to churn out badly made movie tie-ins AND not get penalised for doing a bad job? Maybe I'm just old fashioned with my desire to play good games...

    For those questioning Bruno's maths, in the UK most new games should be 40 GBP, which is roughly $72 and probably accounts for the discrepency.

  41. WB should incur this on themselves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ok, so when is WB going to incur this escalated royalties crap on themselves? There must have been significant brand name damage after those 2 craptacular sequels.

    I can see the Matrix Online having to pay through the nose.

  42. These folks are clueless... by Mitleid · · Score: 1

    The result, insists Jason Hall, senior vp of Warner Brothers Interactive Entertainment, will be better games.

    Wrong, Mr. Hall. I think your result will be less games.

    I'm no professional game developer, but as far as I'm concerned I'd rather not even risk going with a liscenced product if it means I might have to shell out a rather hefty amount of money because the "reviews" say my product sucked. Hopefully, the rest of the game development community will use this as an excuse to explore some fresh ideas, and instead of trying to hawk terrible games based on already familiar liscences they might take a chance at being creative again.

    Anyways, the Matrix is a piss-poor example for Atari to cite. That game only sold because of the movie, but coincidentally the movies sucked too, so in the end I'm sure neither Atari nor WB lost anything on that one. A better example would be to talk about the horrendous series of Simpsons games up until Hit & Run (not an original title, but definitely several steps above a game like Virtual Bart... Dear Lord...).

    --

    --
    Is it me, or did it just get fatter in here?
    1. Re:These folks are clueless... by M3wThr33 · · Score: 1

      But, going back to the NES days with Nintendo and their limited licenses, less games = better games because you are less spread out.

    2. Re:These folks are clueless... by Mitleid · · Score: 1

      That's true, but I'm sure Nintendo kept a handle on the quality of their games a little more intimately than just screening the review sites. Someone in the article even stated that the best way to determine the best games to release under your liscence is to play them. Personally I think this should be the goal strategy for any company trying to produce a game under their intellectual properties. Saying that this approach might be too expensive, take too much time, etc. just seems to be a cop-out as well as illustrate the fact that the one selling their liscence is only interested in making some cash off of their product anyway; that they don't want to go that extra mile for quality control, they'd rather just unload the responsibility on someone else so they aren't accountable.

      --

      --
      Is it me, or did it just get fatter in here?
    3. Re:These folks are clueless... by king-manic · · Score: 1

      Then the probelm becomes, games I enjoy may not appeal to the target audience. So I hire an expert that knows.. wait a minute thats the game reviewer and he does it at no cost to me.

      Seriously. 30% of slashdotters are over 40 and think pong was the pinnacle of game design. Soem of us are over 30 and think every thign went south after Pac man. Others are over 20 and firmly believe that everything since Final fantasy 6 nothing is nearly as good. And thos under 20 think Anything that doesn't change color more then 4 time a second and does not involve collecting 255 items scattered through out a generic japanese locale is boring.

      --
      "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
  43. I review games for an online publication, by bmnc · · Score: 5, Interesting

    and I think in some sense that publishers/developers being punished for releasing shit games is a good idea, simply because it pains me everytime I review some half-assed product that I know many consumers will be burnt by.

    Yes, this could lead to the review system being corrupted (further!!!), but I think that readers of reviews quickly learn which review sites are honest, and which ones are being bribed/corrupted, simply because their experience of a game will not match up with a corrupt (or inept) review.

    A punishment system is dearly needed to financially cripple "shit development houses", so that they are not in a position to spew force further crap into the marketplace. In a Darwinian sense, we need to select against these houses (and select for good houses).

    I would obviously prefer it if it was the norm to return games that one is unhappy with, but I understand that this is not common since retailers have concerns that consumers are copying and returning the software.

    My feverent hope is that consumers will increasingly use retailers that have something like a 1-week return policy (without the third degree, thank-you very much) and that the retailer will have a little checklist which the consumer can tick off why the game was returned (if they so choose), which will be attached to the software being returned:

    Consumers reason for game return:
    [ ] Unwanted present
    [ ] Review inaccurate: (review site/magazine)
    [ ] Not fun
    [ ] Not long enough
    [ ] Dated features
    [ ] Buggy
    [ ] Overpriced
    etc

    The sooner developers and publisers are financially hurt for releasing titles which are inadequate, the better. Power to the people!

    (BTW: I review for http://vgnz.com , feel free to slag my reviews ;) )

  44. Chopping of your penis, branddamage ? by 88NoSoup4U88 · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Ifso, One of those Wacho... Washo... Wachi... Wachowski brothers, will be in big biig trouble :D

  45. Deus Ex 2 was great. by Inoshiro · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I spent a good week and a half playing through it, the same way I enjoyed DX1. Yes, they changed things. Yes, some of it was missed (the skill point system was great, finding extra multitools when exploring doesn't really make up for its loss as a way to reward more play).

    Most of the stuff (positional hitting and universal ammo) make a lot of sense once you beat the game. It helps it flow better, and the game is definitely worth a good playthrough. Just get it with an open mind, and you'll see how good it really is. If they'd released this not as a sequel, I guarantee it would've done better.

    --
    --
    Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
    1. Re:Deus Ex 2 was great. by bigman2003 · · Score: 1

      About the first 1/3 of the way through DX:IW I kept waiting for the game to get good.

      The middle third, I thought the game really blew. (And I posted about it everywhere)

      When I finally finished the game, I realized that it actually was pretty darn good, and enjoyable.

      If they had done something to reduce the number of times the game would load a new environment, I would have liked it a lot more. But in general, DX:IW was a pretty darn good game. (In my opinion...)

      --
      No reason to lie.
    2. Re:Deus Ex 2 was great. by superultra · · Score: 1

      I played the first, I guess probably three times over. I've played the second now twice through, and I'm just not impressed. I'm not one of the people who bitched about the skill system - I liked it. I could handle the poor system performance as well. The ammo system didn't bother me. What bothered me more was that there really wasn't any choice at all. Throughout the game, the same factions kept bothering me. There was nothing I could ever do to piss anyone off enough that I closed a door or burned a bridge. In Ion Storm's pursuit of the ultimate open-ended game, they made a game where choices don't really matter at all. There's no cost or consequence. In fact, you can see all three endings by saving only 10 minutes away from the conclusion of the game. That's lame, particularly since it's little different operationally from DE1. What changed from DE1 to DE2? Very litte, save an overused physics engine, a graphics upgrade, and some interface variations. What sold me in DE1 was the story, and what let me down in DE2 was the story.

      The characters had no life to them whatsoever. I didn't care for any of the factions, which really shouldn't have happened. Ion Storm should have crafted the game so that I liked each for different reasons, but what ended up happening is that I disliked all of them for the same reason. Was it enjoyable to play? Sure. You're right, had it not been attached to DE I probably would have liked it more. But as I thought more about DE2 after finishing it, and got further away from it, the worse I think Ion Storm did with DE2.

  46. It's spell-nazi time! by Stormwatch · · Score: 1

    The french actor is Jean Reno.

    1. Re:It's spell-nazi time! by sirrube · · Score: 1

      I french part of his name right.

  47. Charging for bad reviews by cgenman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    He's not actually paying for good reviews. He's charging for bad reviews. There is a big difference. Nearly all games these days recieve a 70% or higher. A truly atrocious game like UFC has earned a 61% on metacritic. Resident Evil: Outbreak even breaks above 70%.

    With the tremendous score bloat these days if a game gets below %70 its pretty safe to assume it's junk. Heck, Shrek 2 is above that mark. The only excuse to release a below-70 game is running out of funding, and even that's a mark of bad management.

    Honestly, the movie studios taking notice and demanding a little bit of quality is a great thing. Movie licensed games bring in a large number of non-gamers to our world, yet turn off people in droves. The poverty of gameplay is legendary. Now, if only we could make the same arrangement on game to movie licenses...

  48. If 4 million people buy a shitty game... by Anita+Coney · · Score: 1

    It's still a shitty game.

    --
    If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
  49. Well... by JMZero · · Score: 1

    Do you remember the previous 3D Prince of Persia for the PC? Neither does anyone else. You can probably still find it in a bargain bin somewhere, along with "Lemmings:Revolution part 39" and "The Incredible Machine: Less Enjoyable than Ever".

    I too had fond memories of the original PoP, but I certainly wasn't going to pick up a game (like the previously mentioned, abominable PoP 3D) on the strength of the license. I guess I overstated the case a bit, but Sands of Time has certainly revitalized the brand.

    --
    Let's not stir that bag of worms...
  50. Yea, you have some good points. by Inoshiro · · Score: 1

    You're able to satisfy everyone constantly throughout the entire game, right up until the end. It's lame that you didn't have to choose at some point irrevokibly. Even if you kill certain leaders or piss off a group, they'll still work with you later.

    I also missed the skill system. The further I got into the game, the more multitools it took to crack locks. I started to wish for a way to allievate this. However, to balance it, it did force you to make some choices about to open/do with them. Granted, most of it was, "well, I guess I don't really need another 4 bombs.. so I'll leave that closed"

    I liked the story in DX1 more because it was darker, even if you were forced into most of the choices in it (liked the idea of controlling the world? Can't do it -- you have to rebel in the 3rd mission on the plane..)

    But overall, it was a great play through, well worth the 30$ CDN I paid for the game. I spent a good 14 hours on it, which means I paid way less for the entertainment than if I'd just bought a DVD (~same price) :)

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