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CNN Notices that WiFi is Insecure

josh3736 writes "From CNN comes an article that makes painstakingly obvious to the public what we already knew: 802.11 security is horrible. The article points out that nearly 40% of wireless network APs haven't even been changed from defaults and as many as 80% of home APs have encryption disabled. The article goes on to say that '[t]o make matters worse, users who don't secure their networks are often the very people who don't keep their computers up to date with the latest security patches and antivirus software.' It also accuses WiFi manufacturers of disabling security measures by default to make wireless easy to the lowest common denominator. My favorite quote? 'Experts say that while Wi-Fi hardware makers have made initial setup easy, the enabling of security is anything but. Meanwhile, average users are no longer tech savvy.' Which is to say that they at one point were?"

107 of 417 comments (clear)

  1. Just how do you setup WEP anyway? by LostCluster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One major flaw I see in telling people to enable WEP on their WiFi is the first question I'm sure to get back is "How do I do that?" and, well, the instructions for doing that are different for each and every item on their network.

    What's more annoying is that people think the "passphrase" they type into their router a the WiFi key rather than what it usually really is, the random seed from which their router generates the actual keys. They type their passphrase into their other devices when they're supposed to type a key value, and then they wonder why it doesn't work anymore when it was working just fine before they tried this security stuff.

    I've had friends who I thought were tech savvy get tripped up over this stuff. I blame the router-makers for not providing software that makes this a whole lot more of a user-friendly experience. We as the IT industry are badly failing at this... and having a lot of open WiFi points will just make our other headaches such as spam and viruses worse in the end. This really needs to be addressed for the good of the Internet.

    1. Re:Just how do you setup WEP anyway? by Oxy+the+moron · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I own a linksys 802.11b router and it came with an 802.11b PCMCIA card. I had no problems getting WEP to work on either the router or my laptop. Linksys did a great job making the process easy with the router's web-based config and the configuration tool software that is provided in the package for the card. I came up with a passphrase and I could easily apply it across the board.

      However, when I bought a new laptop with 802.11g wireless built-in (not from Linksys) I started having all sorts of problems trying to get the new laptop connected. I have to use the default Windows XP configuration tool (which sucks, IMO) and even when I do get connected with WEP enabled, the speed is horrible. And I'm of much higher technical aptitude than those mentioned in the article.

      My point? I think the ease of configuring wireless depends totally on the manufacturer, and whether or not you have all your products from the same manufacturer. And none of them do a very good job of telling the consumer how to protect themselves.

      --

      Proudly supporting the Libertarian Party.

    2. Re:Just how do you setup WEP anyway? by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 4, Insightful

      One major flaw I see in telling people to enable WEP on their WiFi is the first question I'm sure to get back is "How do I do that?

      So what? It's not like WEP provides security. It's a fundamentally broken protocol.

      CNN is engaging in dangerous misreporting. They spun it so that insecurity is the AP vendors' fault by making WEP difficult to activate. This will lead viewers to believe that once they manage to enable WEP, they're safe. And that's just absolutely wrong. You'd be safer with no WEP and higher-level encryption (although running secure application protocols is even further outside the imagination of typical consumers).

    3. Re:Just how do you setup WEP anyway? by sadler121 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      WEP is completly insecure, and can be broken really easily, its really not worth it. I think making sure you are not broadcasting your ID, and setting up MAC address filtering, is the way to go. That would keep war drivers from 1)Finding your network, and 2) Connecting to it.

      As for war drivers sniffing passwords and stuff out of the air, all you would have to do is make an effort to use secure methods of transport, like SSL,TLS, etc, which is way stronger and harder to crack. we forget that plain text passwords, etc. are just as harmful on a wired network then on wireless network. Would you submit your CC information to a company, on a WIRED network, that sent your information with out encrypting it via SSL? Of course not! Same as with Wireless networks.

    4. Re:Just how do you setup WEP anyway? by Zak3056 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I have to use the default Windows XP configuration tool (which sucks, IMO)

      I've often thought Microsoft should rename their "Wireless Zero Configuration" utility to "Wireless Zero Connectivity."

      Because that's what you end up with: an intermitent link that you can't troubleshoot because you just can't get enough information out of it. To make matters worse, when you have this "service" enabled, it makes multiplayer gaming impossible. It actually disconnects from and reconnects to the AP every minute or two, with predictable results (stutter, even disconnection from the server.) To make things even more fun, it prevents third party configuration tools from working (like linksys' for example, though I believe Intel's will work properly.) There aren't even any usable workarounds.

      Linux may not support nearly as many devices as Windows does, but at least YOU can decide who's tools you want to use to control them!

      --
      What part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand?
    5. Re:Just how do you setup WEP anyway? by VivianC · · Score: 4, Interesting

      My in-laws just got high speed access through Comcast. Instead of a standard cable modem, they were given a Linksys wireless router (branded as Comcast). I placed the order so I know we didn't ask for this, since I went out a bought a wireless router for them already. So now I get there and they have a wireless router with WEP turned on but no key entered and no one bothered to leave the password so I could set it up properly. It took me an hour on tech support before they could get me the login and password. I can't imagine many of the non-tech savy people going through all of this.

      --
      Viv

      Gmail invites for ip
    6. Re:Just how do you setup WEP anyway? by Geldon · · Score: 2, Informative

      I have been using the beta of SP2 for a while, and the good news is that WEP has gotten a bit more user-friendly using just the XP interface.

    7. Re:Just how do you setup WEP anyway? by pe1rxq · · Score: 4, Informative

      WEP can be cracked... but it requires an effort.
      The key in protecting something is to make the time needed to get in as long as possible.
      Without wep most cards will join a network within seconds, with wep you are already save for most wardrivers (they are usually not warparkers).

      MAC filtering as you mentioned is an even bigger security hole than wep. Look up the 'hwaddr' option in the ifconfig man page.

      The combination of no beacons, mac filtering and wep will make your network such a hard target that it will take a considerable effort for someone to use it.

      Jeroen

      --
      Secure messaging: http://quickmsg.vreeken.net/
    8. Re:Just how do you setup WEP anyway? by megarich · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I use a dell 802.11b wireless router I never had a problem either setting up wep. The only thing that annoyed me was I had to type in my own key rather than having one generated randomly. Sadly I can very easily seeing the average computer user just typing in all 2's for his/her wep key. I don't know if other manufacturers are the same in regard to creating your own key rather than having one generated? Redardless I'm not at all worried about wireless secruity in my house. My room faced the rear of the house and I have a big back yard. I can't get a signal from across the end of my house so the only way someone can access my wireless network is to stand literally next to my window in which case he'll be shot on site :). I guess its a hidden advantage having a semi-crappy wireless router....

    9. Re:Just how do you setup WEP anyway? by TheCarp · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I am more systems than network and one thing missing here...

      I have been told that WEP isn't worth the trouble, and I generally agree. The net is a hostile place anyway... you just plain shouldn't be transmitting sensitive data unencrypted.

      You shouldn't be relying on routers to do your encryption. Use ssh, use https. End of story.

      Me? I leave WEP turned off, and lock to mac address. Then take care of the rest properly. I am connected to a box on the net all day long. Frankly, I don't give a shit if some guy in a van can watch me reload slashdot all day long. He isn't
      getting at my credit card information or my useful paswords. The worst he can do
      is post a nasty message on slashdot or use up a few of my subscription page loads.

      All that said..another service... slashdot should offer ssl to people with subscriptions. Afterall, I paid for the page loads, if someone sniffed my password or cookie, then they they could use my subscription on my dime.
      Not cool. (then again, given that they could maybe cost me $10 in the course
      of a year, I don't care that much, I probably lose more than that in gas while my car idles at red lights over the course of the year)

      -Steve

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    10. Re:Just how do you setup WEP anyway? by Ummagumma · · Score: 4, Informative

      "It actually disconnects from and reconnects to the AP every minute or two, with predictable results (stutter, even disconnection from the server.)"

      You may want to check your hardware. Mine (on 4 different machines, home and work) does not act like this.

      "To make things even more fun, it prevents third party configuration tools from working (like linksys' for example, though I believe Intel's will work properly.) There aren't even any usable workarounds."

      You can simply uncheck 'Use Windows to configure my Wireless Settings', and third party tools work perfectly fine. As a matter of fact, Im typing this on an 802.11g network, on WinXP, using a Netgear with the Netgear utility, and not XP configuring my settings.

      I get the feeling you either have bad hardware, or don't know what you are doing.

      --
      "The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." - Thomas Jefferson
    11. Re:Just how do you setup WEP anyway? by Lodragandraoidh · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This is precisely why I standardized my whole network on Linksys products. Once I did, all of my compatability problems went away - and administration is a breeze.

      I have a carboard box full of old NICs that I acquired cheaply, thinking at the time that I would be able to save a buck. What I saved in money, I lost in time trying to get all the disparate cards to work on various machine architectures and operating systems. I finally broke down and bought all Linksys - at the time a basic 10/100 ethernet NIC was only $10 (now they are $25...must have caught them on sale at the time...) I plugged them in my Linux and Windows machines - and they just worked, right out of the box.

      --

      Lodragan Draoidh
      The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
    12. Re:Just how do you setup WEP anyway? by austad · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's better than nothing though. If I go wardriving, I'm not even going to bother with networks that have WEP enabled, because in my experience, about 70% of the networks are completely open. Why not just use one of those?

      Enabling WEP is a deterrent. No one is going to waste the time breaking your WEP key unlesss there is some reward for it that they can't get elsewhere. It's just like locking the door on your house, it's a deterrent. If someone wants to get in, they will kick the door in or break a window.

      --
      Need Free Juniper/NetScreen Support? JuniperForum
    13. Re:Just how do you setup WEP anyway? by The+Spoonman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I get the feeling you either have bad hardware, or don't know what you are doing.

      Most likely it's that they don't know what they're doing..the people who frequent this site are mostly IT guys who'd rather complain that it's "all Microsoft's fault" rather than find a solution to the problem. I've got three wireless machines, with three different wireless cards and not a one of them has these kinds of problems.

      --
      Which is more painful? Going to work or gouging your eye out with a spoon? Find out!
      http://www.workorspoon.com
    14. Re:Just how do you setup WEP anyway? by pnutjam · · Score: 3, Informative

      If have SSID broadcast turned off on your AP the standard XP wireless configeration module will drop the connection randomly and look for any SSID's broadcasting. I've seen this problem on multiple computers with different NIC's.

      Ananova had a blurb about this, I don't have time to look for the link.

    15. Re:Just how do you setup WEP anyway? by orac2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      standardized my whole network on Linksys products.

      I'm a linksys house too : except that turing WEP on with my Linksys router breaks Apple's rendevous. (No printer sharing, remote volume mounting, etc) Until Linksys starts making Macs, I can never standardize my whole network.

      Either Apple or Linksys are playng merry buggers with the WEP standard, (of course rendevous works fine with WEP enabled on an Apple Airport AP): the point is that the user shouldn't have to standardize on Linksys or Apple any single vendor, but the vendors should standardize on the bloody standard.

      --
      "Just once, I'd like to meet an alien menace that wasn't immune to bullets." -- The Brigadier, Dr. Who
    16. Re:Just how do you setup WEP anyway? by josh3736 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I sometimes have the same problem on my laptop, but it depends on which card I have in. The Linksys 11b ver. 3 card drops the AP every few minutes but my Linksys 11g card has never dropped it. Both cards are configured by Windows. (I use the 11b one now since I can't find the 11g)

      It's quite annoying since I ditched WEP in favor of just running a VPN to the rest of my network to get some real wireless security. The wireless network itself has all of the 'security' features enabled, but once you associate, the only port you'll get to is the PPTP one. Much harder encryption to break, requires real authetification. It's just a pain in the ass when the AP gets dropped and the VPN has to reconnect.

      Well, back to looking for my 11g card...

  2. Being a lazy fellow... by tcopeland · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...I kept my Linksys WAP11 box wide open until one day I sat down at my computer to see that some fellow using the machine name "god" had joined the network and sent me a NetBIOS "net send" message. Ho ho, how clever.

    Sigh... OK, fun time's over, no more sharing, hook up USB cable, generate hex key, etc. Kind of depressing.

    1. Re:Being a lazy fellow... by Coos · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not only depressing: Despite your shiny new WEP key, if 'god' is smart enough to use google to find a WEP crack script, and to not announce his presence in future, he's probably *still* logged into your system. There is no WiFi security at present - do it all elsewhere (firewall, encrypted protocols, VPN).

    2. Re:Being a lazy fellow... by dilweed · · Score: 5, Funny

      Are you there Kent?

      It's me, God.

      Stop Touching yourself Kent...

    3. Re:Being a lazy fellow... by ch-chuck · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Have you actually done it? I have been running Airsnort in my apartment with two encrypted nets visible and have had absolutely no results so far. Probably not enough traffic, but also thought THIS article interesting. Would be nice to hear if anybody has actually been successful or just repeating the 'myth'(?).

      --
      try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
    4. Re:Being a lazy fellow... by Gr8Apes · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I thought that with WEP and MAC address filtering, you could lock it down pretty tight? Not having sniffed wireless traffic yet, I don't know if it's 100% encrypted, so that even MAC addresses would be encrypted. Otherwise, if MACs are still publicly available for sniffing, then you're right, there's 0 security.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    5. Re:Being a lazy fellow... by Geldon · · Score: 2, Funny

      Personally, I love the fact no one can set up their wireless security. Being a computer repair guy, I love to get paid to:

      1: Install WEP for people because it is too confusing

      2: Fix computers that have been hacked via an open wireless network

      Either way, I get paid :-)

    6. Re:Being a lazy fellow... by Zerbey · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes, use a WEP key, yes use MAC filtering. No they're not 100% secure but they'll slow most attackers down. Next thing is to secure your local network so even if he gets in there's not much he can get into.

      Nothing is 100% secure, a determined attacker is going to get in eventually. Just don't make yourself an easy target.

      Despite my best efforts to teach him otherwise, my next door neighbour still allows the entire world to get onto his wireless network and do whatever they please. Which makes my network much less desirable to attack :-)

  3. Sure... by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Meanwhile, average users are no longer tech savvy.' Which is to say that they at one point were?"

    Of course they were. Around the time of the Apple I. Since then, the average cluefulness of computer users around the world has been plummeting because computers have been getting easier to use and the bar to entry has been lowered, with humorous results such as people using clueless people's WAPs.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    1. Re:Sure... by laigle · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The average WiFi user was tech savvy too, back when only us computer geeks used it. But now that Best Buy is convincing people they need WiFi to hook up their printers, things are not so secure. Once a technology goes into mass use, the onus for security and functionality rapidly shifts to the manufacturer instead of the user. Unfortunately, most companies just shrug off these problems until we start seeing catastrophic side effects.

      It would be nice if Homeland Security could take a break from trying to find terrrorists by which shoelaces they buy to enforce technological security mandates. Unsecured WiFi networks all over the country are very useful to criminals and terrorists.

    2. Re:Sure... by ZHaDoom · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Meanwhile, average users are no longer tech savvy.' Which is to say that they at one point were?"

      The average user should not have to be tech savvy. That is the goal! The computer should be an appliance to the average user, minimum knowledge should needed to operate it, just like your car. Still it doesn't stop the crazy person from ripping their engine apart because they fell that their performance isn't quite right. But it for the average user it works quite well until it breaks then they give it to a professional to fix.

      Someday I dream computers and their applications will reach this goal.(Mmmmmmmmmm.)

      --
      War isn't about who's right. It's about who's left.
    3. Re:Sure... by Moraelin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Rudeboy1, there is just one problem with this snotty "it's not our product that's crap, it's those idiot users" attitude that's plaguing the industry.

      The problem is that those "idiots" are paying your salary. In fact, if the industry remained an exclusive club where only the High Priests of The Sun (or IBM) have access to the Sacred Computer Room, your employer likely wouldn't even be in business. We'd still not need much more than whatever proprietary peripherals are officially blessed by the computer's manufacturer.

      The growth of the whole computer industry was done precisely by promising ease of use to idiots. The fact that you can sell hundreds of thousands of cards, and not just hundreds, is precisely _because_ you're selling stuff to those idiots. Under the explicit promise that it'll be secure enough and easy to use.

      And I'd like to see the people in this industry actually keeping their promises for a change. Because what everyone, including your employer, is doing is _fraud_. They're making some very explicit promises to get those people's money, but have no intention of respecting those promises.

      You know what's the only difference between the computer industry nowadays and the snake oil peddlers of the old days? The snake oil charlatans knew that they're frauds. They didn't feel a need to call their victims "idiots" and other insulting names. That's all.

      In a sense, the snake oil con artists were actually more honest. And a lot less snotty.

      Just something to keep in mind the next time you feel a need to insult the user for your product's shortcomings.

      --
      A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    4. Re:Sure... by kingj02 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Meanwhile, average users are no longer tech savvy.' Which is to say that they at one point were?
      He was going for 'increased popularity' not a dumber average joe. When it was new, only tech savvy people used it, but now that its cheaper/easier to setup, everybodys getting. Hell, I think my grandma installed a Linksys network.

      ~ JK
      --
      Ardente veritate incendite tenebras mundi
    5. Re:Sure... by timeOday · · Score: 4, Insightful
      It would be nice if Homeland Security could take a break from trying to find terrrorists by which shoelaces they buy to enforce technological security mandates. Unsecured WiFi networks all over the country are very useful to criminals and terrorists.
      No, no, no, please don't ask for that.

      Look, the Internet is not a secured network - not just WiFi but in general. Let's keep it that way.

      I'm glad it doesn't take a license to make a telephone call or use the Internet, even though somewhere, some terrorist is making phone calls. Trying to turn the Internet into some little closed system would be cutting off your nose to spite your face.

      As for WiFi security, it's funny how we're still getting this endless deluge of "OH NO! WIFI IS INSECURE!!!" alarmists. The reason people don't care is because it doesn't matter very much. There just aren't many good horror stories about somebody's life getting ruined because their wireless network was compromised.

  4. average users by CAIMLAS · · Score: 3, Funny

    Yes, believe it or not, at one point your average user was at least marginally tech savvy.

    That point in time was somewhere around 1985, and possibly on upwards to the early to mid 1990's. Not so, since Windows became synonymous with PC, and the Internet began to define personal computing.

    --
    ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
  5. It gets worse by PktLoss · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Not only do WiFi equipment manufacturers disable most of the security by default. Some blame any connectivity issues you are having on the encryption (see How stable is WEP).

    Personally, I would love to see some more options when it comes to turning WEP on. Since my laptop connects in both a wired and wireless manner to my network, it would be great is some software generated a new WEP key to use each time I went wired. I see no reason that the end user would need to be involved, any weakess on the part of the pseudo-random generation of a new WEP key would be less insecure than having the same one for months on end.

    1. Re:It gets worse by swordboy · · Score: 2, Informative

      Amen...

      I do a lot of side work for friends, family and other strangers who beg me for help when they find out that I have The Knack.

      In the end, I leave all security off by default because they will inevitably:

      1) get a new PC
      2) play with the settings on the PC
      3) require a "hard reset" on the router

      If Microsoft and the hardware vendors could make this stuff easier, it wouldn't be so much of a problem. I suggest the following:

      The router redirects unsecured wireless users to a webpage that requires log-on prior to accessing ANYTHING ELSE. Problem solved. At this point, I could simply set a password (or passwords, for families / surf monitoring / etc) and the user would have to use it every time (no forgetting). Just make a label and stick it on the freakin' router for those times that the idiots do forget.

      --

      Life is the leading cause of death in America.
    2. Re:It gets worse by swordboy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Argh...

      OK - stick a setting in the router to turn the feature off. The bottom line is that security could be on BY DEFAULT if it were easy enough while more technical people could get into the nitty-gritty and customize whatever they require. Use your head here.

      --

      Life is the leading cause of death in America.
  6. Why They Aren't Secure by monkeyman_67156 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The very reason that Wi-Fi networks exist is that they provide simple, easy-to-use network connectivity wherever you are. Security takes a backseat to ease of use. The equipment manufacturers don't want to have to deal with the support calls if they would enable security features, such as WEP, out of the box. Adding security to Wi-Fi networks makes them harder to use and less appealing to the average consumer. Thus, it's easier for manufacturers if consumers remain blissfully unaware of the huge backdoors into their networks. But then again, anonymous internet access from my neighbor isn't that bad.

  7. They were. by GeorgeH · · Score: 2, Informative
    My favorite quote? 'Experts say that while Wi-Fi hardware makers have made initial setup easy, the enabling of security is anything but. Meanwhile, average users are no longer tech savvy.' Which is to say that they at one point were?

    When WiFi was just getting started only tech savvy users used it, meaning that the average WiFi user was tech savvy. Now, everyone and their mother (or at least my mother) is using WiFi, and the tech ability of the average user has gone down.
    --
    Why can't I moderate something "Wrong" or at least "Grossly Misinformed"?
  8. WiFi = free access points by binaryspiral · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I enjoy the fact that most idiots have wifi encryption disabled and the defaults set. It makes my life easier when I'm biking or traveling with my laptop or ipaq.

    Most residential and a lot of commercial areas give me free access to the internet - they may or may not know it, I don't really care.

    I don't check my email or browse until I vpn into my home network. Just in case someone is sniffing packets - lets not make it that easy.

    And the reason that Linksys and the rest of them don't enable it by default - tech support costs.

    1. Re:WiFi = free access points by zaffir · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Speaking as an avid wardriver, everyone i know who wants to do anything more than just find wireless networks completely writes off a network using WEP. Most access points have been tweaked by the manufacturer to not send weak packets, and the ones that still do need to send a TON of them to be cracked - as in, weeks upon weeks of traffic is required. Not worth it when there's 5 other completely open networks with default router login/pass setups on the same block.

      --
      "Upon attaching the waterblock to my penis, I began to notice that I know nothing about computers." -- JRockway
  9. New malware vector? by bpfinn · · Score: 5, Interesting

    users who don't secure their networks are often the very people who don't keep their computers up to date with the latest security patches and antivirus software

    I wonder if this would be a new, easy way for people to start a new worm/virus infection. Wardrive down the street, map a few hundred potential victims, and come back later and put the bugger in the "Startup" menu on Windows PCs. Ack.

  10. Absolutely by Safety+Cap · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Back in the good old days of pre-Win 3.1, when people were using DOS + QEMM, the quality of calls on the old Q'Deq helpdesk were much higher. Instead of asking "what's an autoexec.bat?" the average user would be more interested in which interrupts we were tripping (for the record, int 21).

    Once the 'puter became a household appliance instead of a hacker's toy, that's when things started to go downhill.

    --
    Yeah, right.
  11. Hell, it gets better. by Tuxedo+Jack · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't regularly wardrive, because I don't own a car; I use pubtrans. Anyways, in Houston, Texas, between Gessner and I-10 and Kirkwood and Memorial, I counted no fewer than ten open networks, all running Linksys G routers. All of them had their DHCP servers up and running, and all had the default admin passwords up.

    Admittedly, it's nice to have open connections, but if people don't bother to secure them... well, people could do nasty things to the routers and screw with the connections.

    --

    Striking fear in the authors of godawful fanfiction, I am here, appearing in darkness, Tuxedo Jack!
  12. A follow up article... by stratjakt · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... has the not surprising statistic that 90% of home users DONT GIVE A FLYING FUCK if the family PC (which they consider no more than an expensive Nintendo/source of free music) is hacked.

    --
    I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    1. Re:A follow up article... by Cruciform · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Don't forget those people who can claim it was "evil hackers" who put the stolen credit card info / child porn / whatever on their machines.

      Innocence is just a matter of pretending you don't know how to use your machine.

      Funny how gun owners or accident prone drivers don't get to use the same defense.

  13. Bottom Line by Effugas · · Score: 3, Insightful

    WiFi without security "just works".

    WiFi with security is a configuration nightmare.

    So people keep things "just working". When this becomes a problem, we'll see things change. That's how it actually works in security -- be the problem dozens of open daemons on Unix hosts, canary-less stacks in executable code, or a lack of significant checking for airline contraband, the problem is not addressed until it's exploited. When people start getting hacked through their open wireless, we'll see open wireless shut down. For the moment, they'll worry about real problems, like worms and spyware (aka corporate virii).

    Ironically enough, it was bluetooth's security model that made it such a nightmare to work with -- the whole pairing process increased the setup load by several orders of magnitude. They're finally going to fix this with Near Field, but it'll take a while for them to get it out (have they even admitted it's for secure key exchange yet?).

    Note, I've never said this is how things should be. Ought is not is.

    --Dan

  14. I'll believe it. by foxtrot · · Score: 5, Funny

    The WAP I'm using is in out-of-the-box factory default insecure mode.

    I really wish I knew which of my neighbors owns it.

    -JDF

  15. Oh, and it gets better.... by Mysticalfruit · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Yesterday while watching TV over a buddies house I saw a commerical that Verizon is going to be giving away (after you mail in the rebate) a wireless hub with all their new DSL subscribers.

    This just frightens me.

    I'm just imaging the sheeple who will order DSL, get this wireless router, follow the nice glossy fold out instructions and set the thing up, with no understanding of wireless security whatsoever.

    --
    Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
  16. Wide open in NYC by chillmost · · Score: 5, Interesting
    A friend of mine moved to New York City and only kept a land line telephone so he could connect online with his modem. He used his cell for all his calls. I visited him a few months later and he had gotten rid of his telephone line because as soon as he got an Airport card he realized how many open routers there were all over the place.

    He said, "As long as I live in this city, I'll never pay for Internet again." We'll see if that remains true when consumers with wireless routers wise up and turn on some of the security features.

  17. Non-encrypted by choice by Yenya · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have intentionally left WEP off on my AP at home. I use ssh or https for anything sensitive, but I want my visitors to be able to connect via my home
    network without sophisticated configuration on their side (and of course, without telling them my WEP password).

    My home network is connected via Linux firewall, so I can cut the access or install traffic shaping when the problem occurs.

    --
    -Yenya
    --
    While Linux is larger than Emacs, at least Linux has the excuse that it has to be. --Linus
    1. Re:Non-encrypted by choice by spirality · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I tried to get WEP going with Linux and flat out failed. My network at work and at home neither use WEP. I use my DSL Modem(s) to provide a somewhat firewall. Basically they block all incoming ports, forward a few etc... Just like you I use ssh/https for sensitive stuff. What I have done to create some sembelance of security is to turn on MAC address filtering at the wireless router. Both my LinkSYS and the Netgear at work support this. In this way only computers that I specifically allow on the network can get on. If your not doing WEP I would suggest at least going this route. It's painless to set up and depending on how many people connect to the network easy to maintain as well.

      -Craig.

    2. Re:Non-encrypted by choice by jjjefff · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, and then you can also claim innocence via ignorance when the RIAA or MPAA comes a-knockin... Unless they find the bits on your computer, they'd have no way of proving in court that you did the downloading.

    3. Re:Non-encrypted by choice by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 2, Interesting
      me too

      WEP is so broken that I don't see the need for it. If you happen to be within 30 feet of my house, which is on the end of a cul-de-sac filled with retired people who call me whenever a "strange" car is parked in front (just in case I'm being robbed), and manage to get a link, then you can:

      1. Connect to my password-protected Squid server
      2. SSH via RSA authentication to another machine on my LAN
      3. Make NTP requests
      4. Send an email to someone at one of my domains

      My WAP plugs into a dedicated Ethernet card on a DEC Alpha running FreeBSD and a stateful ipf/NAT setup. No system is guaranteed to be perfect, but if you can defeat this, then my WAN security is the least of my problems. However, CNN would count mine as "insecure" since I don't use WEP. Go figure.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
  18. Legit question. by MrRuslan · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Is it legal to connect to open wireless acess points ?

  19. Average users WERE tech savy.... by Total_Wimp · · Score: 2, Informative

    It used to take a lot of tech knowledge to even operate a personal computer so the people that used them were, by definition, tech savy.

    But in order to sell more computers the hardware and software manufactureres have perpetuated the myth that "computers are easy." The truth: operating computers is very easy, but maintaining them is still very difficult. Now the average user is not tech savy, but they have a machine that only tech savy people can maintain.

    TW

  20. They noticed WiFi is insecure? by Wandering+Wombat · · Score: 3, Funny

    Did they also notice the sky is blue?

    --
    I like to place meaningful quotes in my sig, so people will know that I know what meaningful quotes are.
  21. average users by Anubis350 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Meanwhile, average users are no longer tech savvy

    perhaps the article means the average users of wifi are no longer tech savy, i.e. it has become mainstream. not that average users of technology are no longer tech savy....

    just my 2c

    --
    "goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
  22. Linksys needs to take a lot of the blame by DeadSea · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I just bought a wireless NAT router by linksys to replace my non-wireless NAT router made by Netgear.

    What a step down in usability!!!!

    Both products have a web site that you can go to to make changes. Neither has the address printed prominently on the outside of the unit along with the default user and pass, the first step in making it easy.

    I always found the netgear configuration easy, intuitive, and with tons of help. On the other hand the linksys configuration is horrible.

    • Security: The linksys router offers about 5 types of security but nothing you can click on to help you decide which is right for you. Once I chose 128 bit wep, I would expect help on how to set up clients such as what options need to be set, but nothing was available that I could see.
    • Connected hosts: I couldn't figure out how to see everybody that was currently connected with their computer name, mac address, connection speed, etc. The netgear router was much better about this. It makes it hard to configure port forwarding and other such things on the linksys.
  23. once upon a time by man_ls · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Once upon a time, the average user *was* tech-savvy.

    Back before computers put a pretty appearance on everything with Windows XP wizards, or even 98, you had to know DOS to get anything done on a computer system, you had to know keyboard commands, and a basic idea of what the ports on your PC did.

    The "average user" was more tech-savvy because there were fewer uses back then, since the learning curve was higher.

    Now, with everything plug-and-play, it's much easier to not understand what's really going on inside the magical blue-and-black or grey box with a pair of antenna sticking up from the sides of it.

    On my system, I use a Belkin 54G access point. SSID belkin54g. No crypto, no authentication, no MAC filtering. But, you're not going to get anywhere off the wireless segment if you connect to it. The firewall behind the WAP is configured to drop all traffic except the encrypted PPTP tunnels which the wireless clients actually use to connect to the wired infrastructure and the external router. Thus, anyone is welcome to try and get onto my network, but without having a valid account on the 2K3 Enterprise Server box playing router/connection master, and knowing the encryption keys, they're going to get precicely nowhere.

  24. Re:Don't care by bwalling · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I don't use it, either. I've checked the range, and it doesn't reach to any neighboring houses. If someone wants to hang around on my porch and use my Internet access, then good for them. If you think I'm worried about someone finding my house through "war driving", you must be nuts. I don't live in Manhattan. You'd be wasting your time driving around where I live looking for free WiFi.

  25. Liability Issues by newdamage · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I agree with some of the other posts on the main thread, I don't so much care about people trying to see what I'm doing, I have SSH, VPNs, PGP, and other mechanisms that can do that for me when I really need to send passwords and other sensitive information over the internet. My main insentive for securing my wireless AP is so that people can't use my connection for illegal purposes.

    It's a liability issues, and it doesn't seem like a big deal until one day you have to find a way to prove to the Feds and your ISP that it wasn't you sending kiddie porn to some offshore server in Eastern Europe. If your name is on the bill for that connection, I'm sure you signed a contract somewhere that states you are responsible for not allowing illegal activity on your connection.

    --
    ce n'est pas un Sig.
  26. Growing Pains by TenaciousPimple · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I think what we are witnessing is a rapid explosion in use of new technology, with the secure use of such technology slowly catching up.

    I'm guilty of it myself. I set up a wireless access point for my mom a couple years ago. Changed the SSID name, changed the default pw on the router and let her have at it. No problem.

    Of course, as the next year rolled on, more and more wi-fi users were born. Wireless starts becoming standard with new laptops. Almost once a week someone calls in on TechTV and asks about wireless networking. I start hearing more and more about WEP encryption and MAC filtering, and eventually head back over to my mom's to redress my mistakes.

    Sure enough, there were several leeches to knock off, but the point remains. As the technology grows, the users become more savvy, and these current security holes should diminish significantly.

  27. Well, what the hell do you expect? by JessLeah · · Score: 3, Funny

    CNN is an American TV network. The average American thinks that Bill Gates invented the personal computer (and that he is a national hero and a role model to be looked up to), that Excel is a general-purpose database program, that SQL is a Microsoft product ("SQL Server"), and that there is some inherent difference between Dell and Compaq. They randomly attribute any type of computer flakiness to "viruses" or "hackers", since those are the only causes for bork-ups that they understand. And just now their mass-market news network is discovering that WiFi is insecure. Is this any surprise? I'm just hoping that some day CNN will "discover" that Microsoft didn't invent the GUI, and that AOL isn't the Internet...

  28. Of course. by LincolnQ · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Wi-Fi out of the box is of course insecure. It can be made secure with a number of different methods (WEP not being one of them, heh, but there is WPA and other things). I believe one of the best features of Wi-Fi is its ease of setup and use -- if you have an open AP, anyone who comes over to your house can just use it with no or almost no configuration. It's incredibly easy and convenient.

    What's the drawback? Anyone in your neighborhood has access to your local network. But it's unlikely that someone who wanted to h4x0r you would drive up your street and sit in front of your house. It is of course possible, and depends on your neighborhood. If you're the type who locks the house even when you're at home, then definitely get a security protocol. If, like me, you leave the garage door open and doors unlocked, then securing your Wi-Fi isn't something I would worry about.

    So this is no surprise, but neither (in my opinion) is it a big deal.

  29. Thank goodness for the clueless folks... by the_rajah · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I just love how I can take my laptop almost anywhere and get Internet connectivity. Last week I was at my mom's house doing some work on geneaology with my laptop and when I booted up, lo and behold - a wireless connection that was wide open!! It was nice to be able to check my e-mail and look at research sites online right then and there rather than either having to dial in or wait until I got home.

    I've seen the same thing lots of other places including a friend's apartment in Minneapolis where I found 3 wireless access points, only one of which was encrypted and at my own single family house, I get two open wireless connections besides my own encrypted one.

    I have to agree that setting up the secured connection are not obvious, especially when you have one manufacturer's access point and another manufacturer's wireless product in your laptop. It took me a little head scratching and trial and error before I got mine working.

    "Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain

    --


    "Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
  30. WiFi not for mainstream? by Genoxide · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The problem is not the product, but the consumers. Now, I might be wrong about this, but I am willing to bet that all access points, WNIC's and other accessories come with something called a "manual"! If you were to actually *read* one of those, by accident or intent, you might discover how to acutally use your newly accuired product! Only thing is that people don't bother anymore... They expect everything to be so userfriendly that it will install itself and automatically know how you want the settings to be!! Maybe they could put little warnings on the packs like with ciggaretts.. "warning, the DOJ says that not properly securing your accesspoint can be hazardous to your privacy bank account, and or bandwith".. Heh

    1. Re:WiFi not for mainstream? by Feanturi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Now, I might be wrong about this, but I am willing to bet that all access points, WNIC's and other accessories come with something called a "manual"! If you were to actually *read* one of those, by accident or intent, you might discover how to acutally use your newly accuired product!

      That is so very true. The average person (not just computer user, I'm talking average PERSON) is horrified at the thought of having to read a manual in order to understand how to use a gadget. When I'm working in someone's house, I am often asked silly questions like how to hook up a stereo or how to set the time on a desk clock, or how to get picture-in-picture on their snazzy new HDTV. I like to suggest that they check the manual that came with their device, because it will certainly be in there, and then watch the look of horror on their face as they realize they have to learn something now. It's really quite amusing.

      And if they're a computer user, they're no different. They can have a nice big fold-out diagram of their new HP PC with color-coded connectors and nice pretty pictures and they still don't want to read that, they want a person who already knows how, to set it up for them. The average person wants to do the least amount of work to be able to use their tools, that's the bottom line.

  31. Re:Don't care by MrRTFM · · Score: 3, Insightful

    so what about all the non SSL sites you visit which "need" passwords.
    Most of these are not encrypted, and ask for the password in plaintext - are you happy to have this information public?

    It may not sound important (due to the stupidly high number of websites which need membership to see some lame front page), but if you ever reuse a password [like I do - and most others do, come on... admit it], you could be cracked quite easily.

    --
    You can't expect to wield supreme executive power, just because some watery tart threw a sword at you
  32. Re:In other news... by DaHat · · Score: 2, Funny

    And here I've deliberately left my WAP open to the public in the hopes that people would use it for illegal purposes so as to hide my own evil activities behind theirs... sadly I've had no takers yet... I guess there aren't too many evil war drivers in a town of 6200.

  33. Reminds me of the Club for cars... by Helmholtz+Coil · · Score: 3, Insightful
    ...not really a security measure, but if it makes a potential crook look for an easier target it has done its job.

    I live in an apartment complex, and I was stunned to see not only how many people had wireless, but how many ran w/o WEP and w/o changing defaults-last count in my largish apartment complex, better than 20 visible from street level (i.e. not right under their bedroom windows) and a good 40-50% of those completely unprotected. I use WEP and I changed the defaults but I'm under no illusions that this makes me safe. What I think helps, though, is that in my case there are at least 4 other WiFi users in my apartment building alone that are wide open. So as long as there are easier targets, I think WEP's done its job as well.

  34. You think that's bad? by jalefkowit · · Score: 5, Informative

    If cheap-o consumer routers getting 0wned thanks to pathetic Wi-Fi security seems bad, consider this: at least one vendor of e-voting systems depends on WEP as the only security measure between their voting machines and the ballot-counting system.

    Yes, that's right -- ballots are passed wirelessly, and only protected via standard 802.11 WEP. How long until someone tries to 0wn a polling place? Or, worse, just sniffs the ballots out of the air and dumps them to a log file (so much for the secret ballot), say?

    I wrote the article linked to above when the systems were being evaluated in Fairfax County, Virginia -- a wealthy and populous suburb of Washington, DC -- but they've since been approved by the county board of elections and used in two elections to date. Who knows how many other local governments have bought into similar systems?

    1. Re:You think that's bad? by odano · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well this should be interesting. I am a resident of fairfax county, and on election day I will keep my laptop in the front seat and packet sniff for the time I am inside voting.

      Then we can see how secure this voting stuff really is.

  35. Who cares about wireless encryption? by thedillybar · · Score: 2, Informative
    Why does wireless encryption matter anymore? You should be using end-to-end encryption for everything sensitive, whether it's wireless or over-the-wire. Whether it's TLS/SSL, VPN, or something else.

    If you trust every router between you and your destination with a plaintext password, you are crazy. The IETF is moving towards encryption for everything, and people are following. Most universities now don't allow passwords to ever be sent plaintext over the wire.

    Quit blaming wireless, the same security issues exist with wired connections.

  36. I'm posting from my neighbor's WiFi :) by dioscaido · · Score: 4, Funny

    My upstairs neighbor (apt. building) has an unencrypted Wireless Linksys router hooked up to his Broadband connection. If I wasn't hosting my domain's e-mail from one of my home machines, I would have cancelled my broadband a long time ago.

  37. Oh... My... God... Really?!?! by doppleganger871 · · Score: 5, Funny

    You're joking. C'mon, I mean... like, no way. It all makes sense now... if CNN is this far behind on technology, which moves pretty fast, then they are probably a good 25-30 years behind on their political reporting and viewpoints.

    Damn hippies.

  38. I leave mine open on purpose by stecker · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I have two WiFi APs at home. One of these has a WEP key, and is the one all of my devices use. It bridges directly to my "real" network. The other one I leave open just out of the goodness of my heart. I have a dedicated NAT router behind it, and connections coming in on the open access point are the only things that use that router.

    So far, no problems, and people have thanked me heartily for giving them internet access in a pinch.

    Given this setup, what risks do I run? The only one I can think of is that someone has a bunch of kiddie porn torrents just waiting to start up in a server in a van somewhere. Does that really happen? If Osama Bin Laden walks down my street (he'd probably strut, actually), and uses my "free" WiFi to send threatening emails to major governments, do I go to Guantanamo Bay?

    How is this different from NYC offering free WiFi access in Bryant Park?

  39. Clueless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    My brother got a call a few months ago. They were having trouble with their Internet connection dropping all the time. He went to the site and found a brand new Dell with a wireless card. When he asked where the access point was, they looked at him like he was from Mars.

    They had ordered their machine with a wireless card and thought that was all they needed. They were obviously piggy-backing onto a neighbor's wireless LAN but when my brother tried to explain that to them, they accused him of lying to them.

  40. Yes, no longer tech savvy by fleener · · Score: 2, Interesting
    > average users are no longer tech savvy.'
    > Which is to say that they at one point were?

    I knew DOS, Windows 3.1 and Windows 95 inside and out. As the OS interface and glitches have lessened (yeah yeah, no really, there simply are fewer conflicts in recent versions of Windows), my need to understand how the OS functions has diminished. I'm just another dumb Windows user now. When I need to futz with my wireless router, I grab the manual to remember how the damn thing works.

    In the end, I prefer it this way. Life is easier when technology just works and I don't need to understand why. Geeks aside, that's how most people want to live their lives.

  41. No longer technically savy by MythoBeast · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have to agree with this. A few years ago, nobody would even think of setting up a network in their house unless they already worked as a system administrator, or other heavy-duty IT professional. Nowadays everyone who owns more than one computer wants to hook them together.

    It's not that the overall level of savy has decreased, it's that the definition of "average user" has spread to the technopeasant masses.

    --
    Wake up - the future is arriving faster than you think.
  42. A trailer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    If you live in a trailer, do you really need WiFi? A 5-metre ethernet cable should do the trick. :-)

    1. Re:A trailer? by linzeal · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This guy should buy an em meter and walk around the trailer park and see if there are any peculiar readings. Some of those aluminium frames if not grounded can pick up all sorts of em voodoo from buried mains or nearby radio towers.

    2. Re:A trailer? by Cruciform · · Score: 3, Funny

      It's not actually a trailer, it's a duplex.
      I was referring to the type of neighborhood with the trailer park comment. It's all really old, cheaply built houses with beat up cars in the driveways/yards, and in the summer, when it gets nice and warm at night, the drunks down the street take their domestic disputes for a walk.

      No real worries about crime though. Our landlords kids and their friends would sit in their old storage garage every night smoking weed, so we'd have anywhere from 3 to 7 kids keeping an eye out till 2 or 3 in the morning :)

  43. Verizon giving out wireless routers with DSL by p_trekkie · · Score: 2, Informative

    I saw an ad the other day for it. I suspect this and other such deals will greatly increase the number of clueless people using wireless routers in my area.

    My brother and I are looking forward to future war driving expeditions in my area. :)

    On the other hand, maybe the technicians will set them up securely?

  44. So open or not? by Ambush_Bug · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Obviously you should change your password on the router itself so that random drivebys don't screw with your settings.... but if you're running ssh, ssl, etc. how dangerous is it to leave your access point open? There seems to be a group of people in the thread that are like "geeze idiots, my AP is like fort knox". The other crowd says "I leave mine open INTENTIONALLY".

    I'm sort of one of these people that dreams of the day when we have a huge community mesh and people can tell their cell phone carriers to piss off.... but I don't want to leave my access point open if some bonehead is going to hack my box.

    Anyway, I've never seen anybody tell me the difference between 1) plugging your machine into your cable modem directly and walling up your machine by shutting ports down, etc. and 2) having a wireless access point. Is having a machine on an insecure access point any more dangerous than having a machine hooked up to the open internet on a cable modem or some such?

    I mean, the wired internet really is one big network after all, and there are risks associated with being on it. If you're not behind a firewall, wired or wireless, what's the difference?

  45. Re:Don't care by pe1rxq · · Score: 2, Interesting

    SSH and SSL encryption migh make your connection slow... but usually only if you are pumpint huge amounts of data or your computer is crap.
    But most Wireless chipsets have WEP in the hardware (or atleast in firmware) and don't give a performance loss at all.

    Jeroen

    --
    Secure messaging: http://quickmsg.vreeken.net/
  46. Why _I_ don't secure them by starcraftsicko · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I do a fair bit of house-call work in my area. (Pays the bills...) I've set up a fair number of WiFi networks at homes and offices over the past few years. Most of the home networks do not have WEP enabled.

    Contrary to popular belief, WEP is quite useful. Unless you have a script, you probably won't break the key. Getting and using the script is a malicious act... And there are so many other EASIER targets.

    For businesses, I enable WEP by default. (Actually, I recommend that they stick to wired networks when possible... but these days, they don't listen. When they ask "but can you do this?" I say yes.) WEP is a pain to setup for the business owner... so I get repeat business when they add another station. I've tried writing instructions, but I usually end up visiting anyway. WEP is a bitch for endusers.

    For home users, I give them a choice. I say, "do you want me to setup this feature?" and they say "How much?" (I bill hourly for this). I bet you all can figure how it ends.

    WEP is simple to setup for a single NIC to a single WAP. In fact, MAC whitelisting also works well here. But for networks with 3 or more stations, or with NICs of different makes, or with more than one installed OS type, setup, configuration and testing of WEP (or similar encryption) is time consuming. Time is money. Consumers make a consumer decision... probably a GOOD consumer decision. Ask an economist.

    I suppose I could work for free. Or I could estimate more time (and money) to begin with and lose out on the business. But I'd rather work than whine about not having enough work.
    TANSTAAFL

  47. I did it in testing... by Otto · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Couple of years ago when 802.11b was kinda new, i did some testing of this sort of thing.

    The fast crack using weak frames worked then. It doesn't work much now, if the boxes are using newer hardware.

    The slow crack where you get enough packets to figure out the key worked then and now, but in order to actually do it back then I had to set up some continous traffic to get enough packets to make it work. We're talking millions of packets here, and it just takes forever to see enough to do it, with 112/128 bit WEP.

    Can they get in? Sure.
    Will they get in? They're going to have to really want in pretty badly or live nearby and be bored enough to capture for a long period of time. And if they just want free network access, they'll find the easier target like the unsecured one down the street. Or pay the 3 bucks at the nearest hotspot for the hours worth of access.

    WEP is not secure, but in 99% of cases, it's secure *enough*.

    --
    - Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
  48. Re:Legit question, answered. You be the judge. by gd23ka · · Score: 2, Informative

    Assume a woman walking down the street shouting she's looking for men to have sex with. Would it be illegal to walk up to her and introduce yourself to the lady, take her into your home and if she still consents have sex with her?

    What about this access point that shouts ten times a second:
    "Hello strangers! I'm an IEEE802.11 station operating in AP mode! If you want to associate with me, my BSSID is 00:30:40:50:52 and use the ESSID 'default'. I can do 1Mb/s, 2Mb/s, 5.5Mb/s 11Mb/s. I don't do ODFM and I wont accept a short preamble and my owner doesn't want me to use WEP."


    What would be illegal about courteously introducing yourself to that access point with:
    "Hello 00:30:40:50:52, I'm 02:00:2b:18:fd:03 I want to associate with you with ESSID 'default'"


    And what would be wrong with that courtesy being returned with a cheery:
    "Welcome aboard, 02:00:2b:18:fd:03. Have fun!"


    And once you have been invited inside wouldn't it be proper to ask:
    "Is there a DHCP server that would like to give me an ip address?"


    And could a polite DHCP server do any wrong by saying:
    "Hi I'm the DHCP server serving this subnet. By the power vested in me you're 192.168.1.18, your subnet mask is 255.255.255.0, my friend the DNS server is called 204.18.21.17, in case you might want to talk to machines outside my network there is a router called 192.168.1.254 who would be delighted to assist you".


    And I wonder would it be wrong to continue the conversation with the following Gentleserver that cheerfully announces his presence every couple of minutes:
    "Hi everybody on this subnet! I'm a NT5.1 LANMAN Server at 192.168.1.10 and I'm the Master Browser on this network serving the domain REDMOND!!"


    Would it be improper to strike up a conversation along the lines of "Pleased to meet you, 192.168.1.10, Can I connect to a share of yours called C$ with anonymous authentication?"

  49. historical perspective by Dun+Malg · · Score: 4, Insightful
    '...Meanwhile, average users are no longer tech savvy.'

    Which is to say that they at one point were?

    The average computer user in 1970 could probably figure out how to turn on WEP, were he/she transported to the present day. This is the same thing that happened with automobiles. In the early days, automobile owners had to be adept at mechanical repairs. If you read "The Grapes of Wrath" , at one point one of the characters is honing the valve seats on his truck in a campground. That was the 30's. By 1960 you'd be hard pressed to find a car owner that could do a valve job on his car. Computers have become a commodity item, just as cars did.

    --
    If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
  50. Re:well, yeah by The+Unabageler · · Score: 2, Funny

    That's why I have all my gadgets, so I can work outside while smelling those roses :)

    --
    perl -e '$_="\007/4`\cp%2,".chr(127);s/./"\"\\c$&\""/gees; print'
  51. why should I care if my wifi is free for all? by xutopia · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Say I have my WIFI router opened up to the world and that I give free access to the person next door. So long as my personal computer is firewalled why should I care if he piggy backs my WIFI? I've got more than enough bandwith and really couldn't care less.

  52. WEP is just the start ... by lperdue · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Anybody not using MAC filtering is asking for trouble. With MAC filtering, you exclude ALL users except for the ones you have previous allowed. By using WEP, MAC filtering and religiously following your router's documentation, you operate your router in "stealth" mode so that you don't even show up on a war driver's unit.

    Yes, the instructions vary from makerto maker, but they ALL have the directions you need. All you have to do is follow it.

  53. The problem is by phorm · · Score: 2, Informative

    WEP is not secure, but in 99% of cases, it's secure *enough*.

    That within the 1% of cases where it isn't secure enough, the results can be scary. The issue being, you don't know what your WiFi is being jacked for. Sure, it could just be the script kiddy logging in as "god" to play a joke... it could also be a spammer. Or it could could be somebody pulling a credit-card scam. Or it could be somebody that guy that was caught driving around leeching of local WiFi's with his laptop to download kiddie pr0n.

    Point is... you not only have to weigh the risks of being cracked, but the risks of what happens when you are cracked.

  54. WEP is more than enough in most cases... by Otto · · Score: 2, Informative

    If you have WEP, then anybody capable of cracking into the WEP is going to be capable of sniffing your MAC and duplicating it using their card. It's not particularly difficult to do or anything.

    Now, if you're just trying to keep out the neighbors from accidently connecting to your network, MAC filtering is fine. But it should not be considered a real security measure by any means.

    I also see a lot of people thinking that turning off the SSID broadcast actually does something useful. It doesn't, really. The SSID is contained within every single packet that goes over the network, and anybody with a sniffer can find your SSID in seconds, regardless of broadcast being on or not. If you turn off broadcast, what you're really doing is making it harder for people to connect to you accidentally, much like with the MAC filtering. Broadcast SSID's are what things like the Windows XP wireless config screen use to show the "available networks". Turn that off and you won't appear there, but anybody using a sniffer or AirSnort or what have you isn't looking at that screen anyway.

    Using 112/128 bit WEP? Leave SSID broadcast on and MAC filtering off, because it makes no real difference. It also makes it easier for other people to connect to your network after you have given them the WEP key and want them to connect. And if somebody is capable of cracking your WEP, then having MAC filtering on and SSID broadcast off won't even slow them down.

    --
    - Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
    1. Re:WEP is more than enough in most cases... by Otto · · Score: 2, Informative

      So basically you're saying there's no security for WiFi to a knowledgeable intruder?

      Yes, and then again, no.

      First off, security in any wireless communication is done using encryption. And any encryption can be broken if you're willing to devote the necessary resources to doing so. In that sense, there's no security insofar as it can always be broken.

      But like everything else in the world, there's levels of security.. The goal is not to make it unbreakable, the goal is to set the bar high enough to keep people out unless they're willing to devote those resources necessary to get in.

      WEP is secure enough for most people. If you want it to be a step further, you can use WPA (a lot of new SoHo equipment supports it) and/or encrypt your communications on the network using secure protocols like SSH and using VPN's and so forth.

      All I was saying was that a lot of the things people think add security to their network (specifically, turning off SSID broadcasts and enabling MAC filtering) really add no security whatsoever. When you're doing something to add security, it's a damn good idea to understand what you're doing and why it's more secure instead of simply working on faith.

      MAC Filtering and disabling SSID broadcasts are not adding any real security. The reason to do both of these is to prevent accidental wireless network connections.. If you're using WEP, which is a couple notches above both of these, then you're not really adding anything by doing these as well, you're just making more hassle for yourself. If someone can break WEP (even using a script to do so), then they are technologically capable enough to bypass your MAC filter and SSID non-broadcasting stuff in under 30 seconds, so what's the point? Leave 'em be if you have WEP enabled. It's simpler to work with them that way. Makes it easier for you and doesn't hurt at all.

      Leaving SSID broadcast turned on means you show up in lists of available networks.. so when your friends come over and turn on their XP machines, they see your network as one of the available ones. They still need the WEP key to connect though.

      MAC Filtering means that you have to specify which wireless cards can connect to your network. But an intruder who's cracked your WEP can sniff the traffic on the network anyway, and see all the MACs on the whole thing. So he changes his MAC address and is on in seconds. No security here at all. But filtering MACs is really good to prevent that guy down the street from connecting by accident. But then so is WEP, so if you have WEP, why bother with MAC Filtering? Again, easier to leave it off and let your friend who brought his laptop over connect without you having to modify the settings in the access point. He still needs the WEP key, as usual, so you're still safe.

      --
      - Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
  55. The Fairy Tale of the Mythical "Expert" by EXTomar · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Once upon a time someone who wanted to drive really had to know everything about how their car functioned before ever setting foot in it. Now you can just hop in your car and go without giving a second thought to any of it.

    Now you can try to spin this such that people back then were safer because they were more "savy" with their cars but I call BS. Cars now are far safer than they were back then. Its all due to the engineering placed in the car. Not only are they more complex placing them out of the comprehension of the Average Joe but they are more reliable, durable, and in general a better driving experience than ancient vehicles.

    You shouldn't need to be a super crypto-wireless-hacker guru to use a computer or wireless setup. Engineers should be designing these things to not only be simplier but more robust. Having a better and safer system has nothing to do with the "savy" user and everything to do with the manufacturers.

  56. Totally useless statistics... by jdreed1024 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    as many as 80% of home APs have encryption disabled.

    So? I don't have WEP enabled. WEP is not the be-all and end-all. WEP is crap, and introduces horrible cross-platform issues. Not to mention that vendors can't agree on how to specify it - 40 bit vs 56-bit vs 64-bit vs 128-bit - (hint: some of those refer to the same thing).

    I have MAC address restriction enabled on my AP. And it works pretty well. Additionally, unknown clients to my DHCP server do not get an address from it. And there's only a /28 routed on the interface my AP is on.

    So yes, it's unsafe in that someone can park outside my house, wait until I log on, sniff my MAC address, set his MAC address to that, and get bandwidth. Except that one of my devices will notice, since duplicate MAC addresses on the same segment can cause problems. Not to mention the reception outside my house is crap, so he'd have to park directly in front of my house, and if I notice the traffic indicators on my switch start going nuts, and look outside and see some nerd with a Pringles can, I can go kick his ass.

    And the article is short on details. "40% had the defaults configured". What defaults? Passwords? If so, boo CNN for connecting to other people's APs without permission ("The door was unlocked" is not a valid reason for being in someone's house, no matter how stupid you think the homeowner is). If it's SSIDs, that's totally useless. My network name is "default", because I was feeling uninspired when I got my AP. Doesn't mean it's not secure. A friend of mine still has "linksys" for the same reason, yet he has WEP enabled.

    --
    There is no sig, there is only Zuul.
  57. Home AP's often don't need encryption by mrm677 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I just asked my brother-in-law, who is computer savvy, why he doesn't have encryption enabled on his home access point.

    His answer: "unless some guy decides to enter my property and sit on my front porch with his laptop, my weak signal is all the security I need". He claims he's tested it with several laptops and the signal is too weak to be used beyond 10 feet away from his house.

  58. Joe Sixpack is to blame... by JRHelgeson · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Technology used to be the domain of technologists.. then it became popular and that's when "Joe Sixpack" got online.

    Nothing wrong with Joe Sixpack, per se, he's a good guy but he doesn't know the first thing about his car, except where to put the gas, and he doesn't know the first thing about his computer, except how to surf the net. And the scary part is that he doesn't *want* to know anything more.

    When things go wrong, he hasn't the first clue of what to do, with the car or the comptuer. All he knows is that he wanted to surf the net at high speed from his Lay-Z-Boy. Ever since he and his cronies got on board, the technological per capita IQ on the internet plummeted.

    There has been a long standing computer security axiom that states: "There is no such thing as absolute anonymity, in real life, or on the web."

    Well, now there's a caveat to that axiom that I have coined, that states: "Unless you use someone else's unsecured wireless network."

    Joe Sixpack is not only providing the foothold that spammers need to purvey their ilk, but also the perfect foundation from which criminals can perpetrate fraud and theft.

    --
    Good security is based upon reality and common sense. Common sense is a function of having common knowledge.
  59. Is this a bad thing by magicsloth · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I run an open access point and my neighbor does as well. Anything (and I mean anything) more than computer games and unimportant chat sessions I tunnel through ssh/ssl or something similar.

    Why do I leave my access point open then? Because on average I only use maybe 3% of my bandwidth and I don't see any reason that one of my neighbors shouldn't be allowed to use some of it when I don't need it. When I first moved in and didn't have my own broadband yet I was very happy one of my neighbors left his router unsecured.

    I'm actually quite suprised that more people on /. aren't in favor of open access points. They seem to fit very well into the whole 'information should be free' value system that many geeks have.

  60. Qwest is now doing the same by yeremein · · Score: 2, Informative
    Qwest's DSL subscription wizard gives the user three options regarding a DSL modem:

    1. Purchase an Actiontec wireless DSL modem/router from Qwest for $59
    2. Rent an Actiontec wireless DSL modem/router for $3/month
    3. I already have an Actiontec wireless DSL modem/router

    I went with option (1), and it's a nifty little device (it runs Linux BTW). But its default wireless setup is wide open. It can be configured to cloak the SSID, restrict MAC addresses, and use WEP encryption, but a user who can't figure out how to type a set of four random sixteen-digit hex keys isn't going to be able to set it up securely. (Fortunately, the manual gives some "example" keys; I can't wait to wardrive with those...)

  61. From the Department of duh... by Lord+Haha · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Part of the reason why so many wireless networks are open is because some want to leave it partly open.

    For example I don't use WEP because I find it just slows down your connection to nothing, I do agree that use MAC addresses (which I use) should be used, but reality is unless your encrypting everything its much easier to just encrypt the one or two things (say some banking information and that ascii porn, ok just kidding on last part but you get the point)

  62. Clarify by eatenn · · Score: 2, Informative
    'Meanwhile, average users are no longer tech savvy.' Which is to say that they at one point were?

    I think what they're saying is that popularity has grown to the point that the average users of 802.11 are no longer geeks, as Mom and Pop are using it now as well.

    It was just badly worded.

    --
    "But the cars are all flashing me, bright lights are passing me, I feel life passing me by" - Stiff Little Fingers
  63. Re:Why should I care about wireless security at ho by Sepper · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So why is it so bad if my network is not secured? I leave it open on purpose.

    One Word: Spammer.

    You really want someone from the street to use your open net connection to send 10 gig of spam? It's your bandwith, not mine...

    Of course, if you live on the 14th floor, then it's a VERY slim possibility, so you're mostly OK...

    --
    I live in Soviet Canuckistan you insensitive clod!
  64. Have you ever tried? by yet+another+coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    It is hard to break WEP. Even though attacks are theoretically possible, my experience is that it takes too long to collect enough packets. I let AirSnort run for most of a day. It collected nothing. On a low traffic home network, WEP is quite good.

    I really do not know the details of attacking WEP, so maybe there are fast cracking approaches. Writing as someone who uses WEP and casually tried to break WEP, WEP provides a high barrier to network infiltration. A stranger would have to make a lengthy effort to do it.

  65. Wireless isn't worth it by mabu · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The other day I got a call from my broker/investment banker. This is unfortunately not a joke. He tells me he got a strange call from some kid at the coffee shop around the corner telling him his wireless network was wide open as well as the hard drive on his machine. Apparently this guy's office is around the corner from a coffee shop and he just plugged in a wireless router and didn't do any configuration to it and everyone at the coffee house has been slurping down their drinks while slurping down his hard drive at the same time.

    What pisses me off is that I'm not so stupid as to use wireless, but the integrity of my own personal information is often compromised because of stupid people who may have access to my information and aren't responsible with technology.

  66. Re:yabut by starcraftsicko · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This isn't a case of fault or nonfault, but rather a problem with ease-of-use.

    A medium-large corporation with a 20 person IT/support staff and lots of PHBs has the time and expertise to implement security policies (even broken ones like WEP are better than nada), but the home user doesn't. What would be incompetent if done by the IT department at Megacorp (tm) is simply "normal" for home users.

    If you implement WEP (or whatever) you have a pile of administrative and technical overhead that simply IS NOT PRESENT in unsecured systems. The typical enduser just wants their new wifi printer to work. And if they get a wifi scanner 18 months from now, they just want that to work as well. And if their brother-in-law brings in his wifi PDA, then THAT should just work.

    To have a secure system, it must be designed to NOT WORK except under specified conditions. (A password might be a condition) Security then works directly against ease-of-use. The easier it is to use an OS or Network Device or whatever, the less secure it must be.

    If the administrative overhead involved in keeping passwords both secure and ready-on-demand isn't annoying to you, then you're probably PHB material.

    If the technical aspects of setting up a new device dont bother you, then you are a geek (like the rest of the /. readership).

    If you don't want things just to work, you sure as hell aren't an average user.

    TANSTAAFL

  67. Turn off SSID not useful by DonGar · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've always found that disabling SSID broadcast is nothing but a false sense of security. It's going to do far more to block legitimate users than to keep out bad guys.

    --
    plus-good, double-plus-good
  68. Re:Why should I care about wireless security at ho by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 2, Informative

    and only have Macs. Why should I care about securing my access point?

    I assume you're joking. Mac OSX is famous for having a huge wireless security hole. Any attacker who is on your LAN (airport wireless or ethernet cables, doesn't matter) and has an attack script running when you boot up can OWN your computer.

    OS X, by default, looks for a "network configuration distributor" or something when it starts... and then it downloads and installs any patches that computer is providing. The implications are obvious.

    Apple has probably patched this one hole by now, but it shows that Macs have no fundamental advantage.