Gentoo Officially Not-For-Profit

iswm writes "The paperwork for the Gentoo Not-For-Profit entity was approved by the State of New Mexico today. This means that as of today, the Gentoo Foundation is an official Not-For-Profit Corporation in the United States. The process of becoming a Federally-recognized not-for-profit entity, which will take about six months for approval, can now begin."

Comments

no more taxes

[millahtime]

Hey, this makes them tax exempt. Way to save money!!!!!

Re:no more taxes

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a significant difference between a "not-for-profit" and a "non-profit". In particular, not-for-profits are _not_ federally tax exempt.

I'm not aware there is much difference between a for-profit and a not-for-profit from a tax perspective.

Any CPAs around?

Re:no more taxes

[kfg]

Hey, this makes them tax exempt.

In New Mexico.

The blurb was badly written. They are not tax exempt in the United States and the standards for state tax exempt status are usually somewhat different and easier (fill out the forms) than the federal standards.

About six months from now Gentoo may or may not be nonprofit in the United States.

KFG

Re:no more taxes

[RazzleFrog]

Non-profit and not-for-profit can be used interchangeably. You will rarely hear any accountant refer to a company as non-profit. Not-for-profit is the current "politically correct" term.

In order for a not-for-profit to receive tax exemption it has to qualify under the IRS codes section 501(c). The most common being 501(c)(3) for charitable organizations.

Re:no more taxes

[timeOday]

I think it's a very interesting story, even if they only registered in NM. This give a strong indication that Gentoo will not have an IPO and morph into annoying spam-ridden piece of nagware. So I think it's great.

Re:no more taxes

[BlindSpy]

Does anyone know the actual point of filing for NFP is? From what I gather, they filed for NFP in the state so that they can apply for federal NFP which will make them tax exempt. So the whole point is so that Gentoo doesn't have to pay taxes as an entity?

Re:no more taxes

[betis70]

Yeah its not like New Mexico is a state between Texas and Arizona.

Dumbass.

Re:no more taxes

[Anonymous Coward]

They are already tax exempt if New Mexico approved their incorporation. By the way, it's only a matter of paying the filing fee and filing to become a nonprofit entitty. In most states this can be done online.

I said they are already tax exempt. Let me clarify by saying that they are already tax exempt FEDERALLY as well.

You do not have to file for federeal tax exempt status unless you expect your income to be more than $5000 annually. If you didn't file, and you earned more than $5000, you can file after the fact and you will have no problems.

Now I know that Gentoo will make more than $5000 annually, but I am just reminding everybody that they can start accepting tax exempt contributions right away, without waiting for federal exemption to be approved.

I am not a member of the justice system, however we did just create our own nonprofit in NJ. Since we don't expect much in terms of income, we are not filing, because it is a costly and time consuming process.

Hey.. Don't take my word for it. Read all about the law that governs nonprofit incorporation (501(c)(3)) here

Oktay Altunergil
http://freelinuxcd.org

Re:no more taxes

[kfg]

They are already tax exempt if New Mexico approved their incorporation.

Of course. That's a tautology. But it only applies to New Mexico taxes.

I said they are already tax exempt. Let me clarify by saying that they are already tax exempt FEDERALLY as well.

You do not have to file for federeal tax exempt status unless you expect your income to be more than $5000 annually.

That's simply an extension of the general tax code. No entity has to file anything with the Feds if their gross income is under $5000. (And if Gentoo has already grossed more than $5000 this fiscal year this is a strawman argument in that regard anyway).

That doesn't mean that an unemployed wino is tax exempt. It means he didn't earn enough in a particular year to have to pay taxes. If he lives in New Mexico he certainly still has to pay sales taxes on any of his taxable purchases. A tax exempt entity does not.

Now I know that Gentoo will make more than $5000 annually, but I am just reminding everybody that they can start accepting tax exempt contributions right away, without waiting for federal exemption to be approved.

And if you give said wino a donation you cannot deduct it from your taxes. If he represents a New Mexico tax exempt entity you can deduct it from your New Mexico state taxes, but not your federal. If the entity he represents becomes recognized federally as tax exempt in that fiscal year you may deduct such donations from your federal taxes.

I am not a member of the justice system, however we did just create our own nonprofit in NJ.

I'm not a member of the justice system either, but I've been a founding board member of a NY State nonprofit corporation that now and then took in over $5000 in remuneration (that's not counting tax deductable contributions) in a week or so, and hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in contributions. We did have a state judge on the board as well though, which certainly didn't hurt. There was no online filing at the time but he could just walk the forms around on his lunch break.

We were recognized (at time I served) as a not for profit corporation in the state of NY, but not by the United States government. Contributions were state tax deductable, but not federally. State tax status has nothing to do with federal tax status. They are seperate entities. Many states (perhaps all, I'm not familiar with them all) recognize as tax exempt certain corporate entities which the federal government will not. There is no automatic transferance of status from the state to the federal level.

Hey.. Don't take my word for it. Read all about the law that governs nonprofit incorporation

This is a bit of a niggle I supose, but that law doesn't cover incorporation, but only the tax exempt status of existing corporations. United States corporations are formed by acts of Congress. To read about the laws governing incorporation as a nonprofit you have to consult the laws of the particular state in which the corporation will be formed. To hold tax exempt status in more than one state (so you don't have to pay sales taxes when you go shopping "next door," for instance) you may well have to file in multiple states.

And that law will apply to you ( and Gentoo) when you have filed your IRS Form 1023 and had it approved. Not before. Have you done so?

KFG

Re:no more taxes

[Bombcar]

No, the major benefit will be that donations to Gentoo will be tax-deductable, just like GNU, etc.

Then people are more likely to donate, and they get other benefits, too.

Re:no more taxes

[BlindSpy]

Ah - this should be stated in the initial article. I should have waited to buy my Gentoo t-shirt. Coulda saved almost a dollar ;-P

Re:no more taxes

[geoffspear]

So anyone who's a member of any state's Senate is a "United States Senator" and therefore able to vote on treaty ratifications?

Re:no more taxes

[Anonymous Coward]

No Dipshit, but if I had a California license I can drive in Florida.

Re:no more taxes

[SirKron]

And cheaper Microsoft Licensing too!

Re:no more taxes

[KermitJunior]

The key is that once they send in the 1023 form for exemption and 872-C, All donations made will be tax-deductible retroactively. SO assuming they'll make it (State approval makes that a shoe-in), you can contribute today and in a few month officially write it off.

The real question is....

[coolfrood]

...how long will it take to compile the documentation to make Gentoo a not-for-profit organization?

Re:The real question is....

[millahtime]

...how long will it take to compile the documentation to make Gentoo a not-for-profit organization?

Your Answer:

The process of becoming a Federally-recognized not-for-profit entity, which will take about six months for approval, can now begin

Re:The real question is....

[Nakkel]

Didnt take too long for the answer to emerge.

Re:The real question is....

[I confirm I'm not a]

I think the real answer to the OP's question ("how long will it take to compile the documentation to make Gentoo a not-for-profit organization?") involves "emerge"...!

(Obligatory, uninformed anti-Gentoo flame: ...and it'll take a lot longer than six months ;)

Re:The real question is....

[RevDobbs]

The real question is: If they're "an official Not-For-Profit Corporation in the United States", what exactly is going to happen six months from now?

I don't mean to nit-pick, but that submission could have used a little proof-reading; it just doesn't logically parse...

Re:The real question is....

[EvilTwinSkippy]

emerge --deep 501c

Re:The real question is....

[Otter]

While you were compiling, a new version came out. Do an 'emerge sync && emerge -u world' to update to 501d-r1.

Re:The real question is....

[RazzleFrog]

In order to be a corporation in the US you only need to incorporate in one state (Delaware being very popular for tax reasons). In order to qualify for tax exempt status (which is what they mean by federal recognition - the IRS) you have to qualify under 501(c).

Re:The real question is....

[apachetoolbox]

ba-boom boom chink!!

Re:The real question is....

[essreenim]

score =0, offtopic

Is your signature supposed to be profound or funny.
I think of it as like my "big picture" analogies.

To many people live there lives like there in prison because they're surrounded by freedom but they cannot see it!!!

Re:The real question is....

[EvilTwinSkippy]

The line is not funny, nor profound. It is a statement of truth, and what you take from it is on your own time.

No, onto some mean spirited grammer nazism.

To many people live there lives like there in prison because they're surrounded by freedom but they cannot see it!!!

Indeed, and they also seem unemcumbered by grammer. Granted, grammer tips coming from are about as credible as ethics tips from Jeffery Skilling, but here goes:

Too many people live their lives as if they're/they are in prison ...

Lao Tsu had it easy. There is no formal syntax in ancient Chinese. Were the same words written today in English he would have been laughed at.

Re:The real question is....

[essreenim]

I try hard to see the forest even when surrounded by trees.

I don't imprison my mind with the folly of exact spelling unless it is for permanent record, I hope!

The forest is nothing without its trees and a beautiful forest it is - all the more so when it is full to the brim with beautiful trees!

What happens to one tree will always affect another even if they are not close together...

Ok, that's enough symbolism!!

Re:The real question is....

[Anonymous Coward]

The line is not funny, nor profound. It is a statement of truth, and what you take from it is on your own time.

Well, since it's your sig, you might want to correct the grammar. Not that it matters, but it won't hurt. You would save yourself from various snide remarks.

Paranoia: (n) What seperates truly GREAT admins from tourists.

Re:The real question is....

[Xabraxas]

In order to be a corporation in the US you only need to incorporate in one state (Delaware being very popular for tax reasons).

You'll also notice that all of your credit card bills come from Deleware for that very same reason.

Compiled yet?

[Anonymous Coward]

Has Gentoo finished compiling yet?

lololololol

OMG THAT WAS A GOOD ONE

So now it can join the ranks of SCO......

[MrIrwin]

.....whose business objectives are not exactly clear but they are certainly **not** for profit;-)

Before the compiling jokes arrive.

[anonymous coword]

Remember that Gentoo now supports binary packages for those giant software such as KDE and OpenOffice.org. Also check the Wikipedia article about Gentoo.

Re:Before the compiling jokes arrive.

[shrapnull]

I started with gentoo around the buzz online with a Stage 3 installation, had some minor glitches and decided to load the full-on, balls-to-the-wall Stage 1. That said (and countless hours later) I no longer go through linux distro's like a fat kid with cake, and I have become even more committed to linux projects. Having been a Slackware zealot for years, I must now admit that if you're looking for a distribution with the geekiness of Slack but the full-time windowed experience of Mandrake, Suse or RedHat, this is the best choice. The lengthy installation simply garauntees you won't turn around and toss some other random distro on your box for the hell of it like I used to. I praise their committment to open distribution and their newly acquired Not for Profit status, and since it's GPL anyone who complains is welcome to turn it into something else. Gentoo is my new hero...second only to OS X.

Re:Before the compiling jokes arrive.

[BlindSpy]

That is correct. Big installs now have bins available if you cant wait for the compile. I dont even notice compile times when emerging programs - it just feels like they're being installed because the installation process is so quick.

oh?

[Anonymous Coward]

why do they want to become a corporation?

Re:oh?

[Anonymous Coward]

money.

Re:oh?

[I confirm I'm not a]

Some troll^Wone ought to tell them that "not for profit" status is a terrible way to make money, then.

Re:oh?

[kpansky]

Not at all. For profit is just about how proceeds are handled within the company. Non profit CEOs can still make plenty of money and pay their employees well. Its more or less just a tax code definition rather than the charity type connotation that you seem to associate with the term.

Re:oh?

[I confirm I'm not a]

I see it as a tax-code definition (otherwise they'd presumably just become a charitable foundation?), but I also don't see gentoo.org sitting down and deciding "let's become a not-for-profit so our CEO can get rich quick." I could be completely wrong, but my understanding of Gentoo is that they took this course for stability rather than greed.

Re:oh?

[kpansky]

Right. It just seems that all too often people tend to equate non profit with charitable and sometimes it irks me :-)

Great!

[Anonymous Coward]

The process of becoming a Federally-recognized not-for-profit entity, which will take about six months for approval, can now begin.

By the time my current compile finishes, Gentoo will be a Federally-recognized not-for-profit. Woohoo!

Re:Great!

[chegosaurus]

Repeat until funny.

donations

[PimpbotChris]

does this mean donations will be tax deductible?

Re:donations

[EvilTwinSkippy]

In New Mexico, possibly. But the federal paperwork is just starting, and they don't get 501c status until all the goats have been sacrificed.

Re:donations

[Anonymous Coward]

yes, but I doubt buying the slick t-shirts they sell is also deductible. Oh well, its worth the cash. I wish they would just sell stickers or something...

Re:donations

[klieber]

It depends on what 501 status we pursue. 501(c)(3) organizations are considered "charitable" organizations and donations to these entities are tax deductible. 501(c)(6) is a trade organization and organizations to these entities are not tax deductible.

Re:donations

[bgeer]

No, incorporating as not-for-profit doesn't necessarily make you tax exempt. All not-for-profit means is that you don't distribute dividends to shareholders, but rather reinvest any profits (or funnel it to management...)

In order to be able to receive tax deductable contributions you have to apply to the IRS to be a 501(c)3 tax-exempt organization. The blurb on Gentoo.org doesn't say what section they're applying under, but it would be pretty surprising if the IRS granted them charitable status. It's usually reserved for charities, artistic or literary foundations, churches, etc.

Re:donations

[klieber]

and organizations to these entities are not tax deductible.

Of course...that should have said "and donations to these entities are not tax deductible."

/me goes to emerge coffee

Re:donations

[Mad_Rain]

I... can't... resist...

/me goes to emerge coffee

see you in three days then? ;)

Re:donations

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget cults who harass IRS agents!

Re:donations

[eeg3]

"it would be pretty surprising if the IRS granted them charitable status. It's usually reserved for charities, artistic or literary foundations, churches, etc."

I don't see why it would be that surprising. The NetBSD Foundation is a 501(c)3 tax-exempt organization. Slashdot mentioned this awhile back.

Re:donations

[Igor47]

Like this one?

Re:donations

[Anonymous Coward]

I think that you could make a legal case that gentoo is an artistic endevor. That being said I hardly think that someone is making this assertion... but who knows

Re:donations

[FuzzyBad-Mofo]

Yeah, but when he returns, you won't believe his speed.. ;)

Re:donations

[ichimunki]

Speaking as a Gentoo user of over two years now, I hope you'll go for 501(c)(3) then-- it seems to me the benefits to your supporters will outweigh the "costs" of goign that route. It's mainly that Gentoo can't be involved in political lobbying and campaign activities, right? If the FSF can meet the criteria, I should think it would be a slam-dunk for Gentoo, which seems far less political than the FSF.

While I think many of us will be happy to donate whether it's deductible or not, it's a "cherry on top" kind of thing. I'm just glad Gentoo will be officially not-for-profit now. Before, the fact of being a for-profit business always left me wondering why I would just send money if I weren't going to be given shares or something... so I ended up donating to the FSF and GNOME for my Free Software related giving. Now I can add Gentoo to the list.

Re:donations

[richie2000]

Nah, he has a Beowulf cluster of coffee makers. :-P

(couldn't resist either)

Re:donations

[The Lynxpro]

"In New Mexico, possibly. But the federal paperwork is just starting, and they don't get 501c status until all the goats have been sacrificed."

Goat sacrifices? Are you trying to tell me they are represented by Wolfram & Hart?

http://www.cityofangel.com/characters/wolframHar t. html

Celebrate

[Anonymous Coward]

Celebrate by Donating to Gentoo

Re:Celebrate

[mrchaotica]

Wait for 6 months, and you might even be able to deduct it from your taxes!

Linux is not for profits?

[Realistic_Dragon]

Then how do they square the fact that it's used by Linus, Robbins, Stalman and all those other agents of God eh?

Will the government remove their not for prophet status if they discover how deep the OSS religion goes?

Re:Linux is not for profits?

[no longer myself]

Will the government remove their not for prophet status if they discover how deep the OSS religion goes?

Maybe, but then they will get a tax exempt status for being a religion, and maybe even qualify for funding under the "faith based initiative".

Re:Linux is not for profits?

[mizhi]

They're not prophets, they're charlatan messangers of the great evil satan himself. They're non-prophets and linux is the alatar they constructed for worship at by the followers of their demon cult, the Free Software Foundation.

Gentoo is a just a little spawnlet.

Okay okay, I'm done. Don't throw the tomatoes too hard.

Re:Linux is not for profits?

[BigBuckHunter]

The church of Gentoology rocks! I hear David Blain is a member.

Re:Linux is not for profits?

[r_j_howell]

-1 BLASPHEMOUS

And in other news

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody cared.

Here's Bob with the weather.

It's wrong!!

[borgdows]

gentoo business plan is :

1) fetch packages
2) compile
3) ???
4) PROFIT!!

Re:It's wrong!!

[mdarksbane]

No, obviously now it's:

1) fetch packages
2) compile
3) ???
4) !PROFIT

Re:It's wrong!!

[stokkie]

It took quite some time till this obvious joke emerged.

Um, so they're not for profit yet?

[192939495969798999]

This isn't really a story, since as the summary states, they still have 6 months. This shouldn't have been run until then! What if something comes up in the mean time?

Re:Um, so they're not for profit yet?

[millahtime]

What if something comes up in the mean time?

If something comes up in the mean time then that story will most likely be /.ed too.

Re:Um, so they're not for profit yet?

[klieber]

That's inaccurate. We are a not-for-profit organization right now. Today. The Federal status (which is mainly for tax purposes) will take another 6 months to formally complete.

Re:Um, so they're not for profit yet?

[dont_think_twice]

Um, a dupe?

Of course they're not for profit...

[Anonymous Coward]

...they're a Linux distro. Isn't not-for-profit implied?

Re:Of course they're not for profit...

[Anonymous Coward]

you are an idiot.

Re:Of course they're not for profit...

[oliverthered]

There American , isn't not-for-protif implied.

'The estimated population of the United States is 294,256,444
so each citizen's share of this debt is $24,535.31.'

Re:Of course they're not for profit...

[dont_think_twice]

They are American , isn't not-for-protif implied. 'The estimated population of the United States is 294,256,444 so each citizen's share of this debt is $24,535.31.'

I don't think you understand how the national debt works: it is like a credit card. We just keep charging to it, and eventually, when it gets too high, our daddy will come in and pay it off for us. Hopefully he will buy us a new car then too.

Re:Of course they're not for profit...

[Brandybuck]

The American way is to live like a king, declare bankruptcy, get tons of credit card companies begging for your business, out of bankruptcy seven years later, wash, lather, rinse, repeat.

Non profit Corpoartion - what this actually means

[JaF893]

As far as Linux and Gentoo are concerned this can only be a good thing and it is certainly a very positive step. For those interested in finding out a bit more about what this actually means here are a couple of Wikipedia links:
Non Profit Corporations
Non Profit Organizations

automated responses

[Anonymous Coward]

Standard, auto-generated, wannabe funny slashdot responses:

How long will it take to compile their forms?

More like 6 years after everything is compiled.

They better hurry and get going!

I wonder how long it took to compile a decision.

OMFG, GENTOO SUXORS!

Compiling is ok, but how much real-world benefit does one get?

One more reason to love Gentoo.

I'm sick of all the Gentoo zealots.

I'll take apt anyday.

emerge suks! urpmi is teh shitzors

There, you can stop reading now.

Okay, a question...

[WhiskerTheMad]

So what niche is Gentoo aimed at? Mandrake is for n00bs, Redhat's for suits, Slack is for people who have an unhealthy obsession with config files.

I've been looking for a new distro lately. Where does Gentoo fall in this list?

Re:Okay, a question...

[Syzar]

People like me who are living on bleeding-edge?

Re:Okay, a question...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd say somewhere around Slackware, you do a fair amount of manual config file editing. However, I think package management is fairly simple.

Re:Okay, a question...

[Anonymous Coward]

Gentoo is aimed at those that really loves compiling. :)

Re:Okay, a question...

[Anonymous Coward]

Gentoo is and always has been for the power user with real computers.
It offers a lot in the way of flexibility unlike the binary only distributions, but it's not for the impatient or new linux users.
Being that Gentoo is sourced based and community driven you will find pieces of it that come from every other major distribution which is pretty darn cool when you think about it. One of the first things that attracted me was the ability to make changes to it and get a system built that matched my needs and being able to work so closely with the developers to effect long term change.

Hope you find what your looking for..

Re:Okay, a question...

[Anonymous Coward]

Gentoo is for masochists.

Re:Okay, a question...

[irexe]

Gentoo is for people that want the ease of use of Debian's apt-get with the benefits of source compilation (optimization for your specific machine, smooth integration with source compiled packages) and support for The Latest Stuff.

Gentoo is as easy to maintain as Debian, but it is generally more geared towards people that want the latest stuff on their desktops (whereas Deb is not very desktop-friendly). In comparison to the desktop distro crop (Redhat, Suse, Mandrake, etc.), Gentoo stands out favorably (IMHO) in that it is much more accessible and maintainable from the command line. This may scare noobs, but tweaking the ol' config file is a lot more deterministic and promising than dealing with dialogs like 'there was a problem with your network device' and with custom vendor kernel weirdness.

So, to sum it up: Gentoo combines the best of both worlds: it is a very hard-core, clean, unixy distro with a very refreshing attitude towards desktop usage. IMHO, the only thing that beats Gentoo on your desktop will be OS X!

Re:Okay, a question...

[oliverthered]

.... Gentoo is aimed at those that really loves [wanking over porn] while waiting for a compile. :)

Re:Okay, a question...

[EvilTwinSkippy]

IMHO, the only thing that beats Gentoo on your desktop will be OS X!

In my data center we are actually using both. I also use Gentoo at home. Though I think I'm one more KDE problem away from the main box being reformatted to XP by my wife.

I many care about having the latest version of KDE. She just has this unnatural obsession with DVD's playing back every time she sits the baby in front of the tube, complete with sound and not looking like ass.

For the record I am usually able to accomplish this. There are just those days...

Re:Okay, a question...

[Dan Ost]

I like gentoo because it's easy to install (can use any boot media that
supports chroot, including another partition), gives me a clean base system
without anything I didn't ask for, makes installing and updating software a
breeze, and has a community that is active and friendly.

Basically, I like it for all the reasons I like BSD.

Re:Okay, a question...

[mattyrobinson69]

i use slackware, you insensitive clod.

config files are you friend......

Re:Okay, a question...

[Anonymous Coward]

gentoo is for ricers

Re:Okay, a question...

[Anonymous Coward]

Gentoo works best for lazy people with little time for computer management. Gentoo crowd is composed of very patient and curious newbies, so whatever problem you may encounter MUST have already been experienced and most probably solved by someone else. Even if your problem package has been released an hour before, hit the gentoo forums (no searching for help) and you have your solution posted, step by step, digestable by any noob - 9 times out of 10.

Re:Okay, a question...

[Wedge1212]

its for people who have lots of time to complile :)

Re:Okay, a question...

[Bombcar]

Gentoo provides a very important thing to the Linux community.

They basically make it very easy to beta-test new software, which results in improvements for everyone.

In fact, I'd say it is almost because of Gentoo that so many compiler warnings have been fixed in source code packages all over the world.

And it also helps verify that software is truly cross-platform.

yay for gentoo

[vmircea]

I personally love Gentoo, hopefully now that they won't have to pay taxes and get other benefits they will be able to give the Gentoo users a little bit more, although they've been doing a great job so far. And for people who don't know what Gentoo is, since it's pretty popular but not everyone knows about it. It is a Linux OS that compiles most packages (except for open office, unless you're crazy, like me). Take a look at it here.

How about FOR profit?

[Gothmolly]

Why the rush and excitement over being able to say that you make no money? How about charging people for Gentoo, making a profit on it, and creating wealth, instead of a non-quantifiable warm & fuzzy feeling? I'm sure this will instantly be modded Troll, Flamebait, or Heresy, but I don't understand the pride people have in being able to declare that they make no money.

Re:How about FOR profit?

[Anonymous Coward]

Probably the pride people take in helping their neighbors. Oh wait, right wingers take pride in stealing from their neighbors :-) I forgot.

Re:How about FOR profit?

[Anonymous Coward]

This doesn't mean they can't make money. It means they are not driven by profit. Corporations that are for not identified as Not-For-Profit are required by law to try to make a profit for shareholders. This means the organization can focus on making better technology. Money made is pumped back into the organization.

Re:How about FOR profit?

[EvilTwinSkippy]

Working for a non-profit, its all about donors. Many benevolent organization (Pew, Carnegie, etc) really prefer to give to an official non-profit (assuming it's not mandated in their charters.)

NFP status also makes Gentoo eligable for numerous government research and education grants. That's money with not strings attached, save to do the work as stated. No corporate tie-ins, no funding pulled because you are competing with their product. Of course there are political issues that are difficult to negotiate, but you have a development and giving department to handle that.

Re:How about FOR profit?

[radja]

because now, Gentoo is creating wealth instead of merely redistributing wealth.

Re:How about FOR profit?

[zanderredux]

Gosh, I had mod points but I'm giving them up so I can reply....

Basically, being a NFP will relieve much of the money-making pressure on Gentoo, so they can fulfill their Social Contract, without having to compromise it so they can mmet some aribitrary profit targets imposed by shareholders and so.

NFP also is a testimony to their commitment on giving back to the community instead of giving to some high-profile exec or a limited bunch of anonymous shareholders.

In principle, it's a good thing, but let's see how they can get a cash flow going (not necessarily profit, but they should have at least the means to keep paying their bills on time).

Re:How about FOR profit?

[pandrijeczko]

How about those of us that get a "warm & fuzzy feeling" about just being part of a global community ?

A question I always put to capitalist people is "What do you deem to be *ENOUGH* money?" to which I can never seem to get an answer.

I fail to understand the mechanics of using money to just make more money. Surely there is a point when you have enough money (say, to buy that new Learjet or something) in which case there is some goal to aim for.

This is why I never understand the pro-Microsoft people who always quote the "$60 billion in the bank" figure.

So what? That money's not *doing* anything apart from sitting their getting bigger.

Call me a Communist hippy or whatever but I find life's more fun when I *don't* spend any of it thinking about money...

Re:How about FOR profit?

[aixou]

I'm sure this will instantly be modded Troll, Flamebait, or Heresy

I think saying that is the trick to getting modded up. Lemme test it out.

Gentoo can suck me off. Yeah, it may be a little faster, but in the end, who wants to wait for all that compiling. I'm sure the mods will mod this flamebait, or troll, but you know? It really can just go suck me off. It sucks.

On a sad and pathetic note, I'm writing this on my Gentoo box.

Re:How about FOR profit?

[klieber]

How about charging people for Gentoo, making a profit on it, and creating wealth, instead of a non-quantifiable warm & fuzzy feeling?

Our software is GPL'd. You're welcome to pursue this. We chose a different path.

Re:How about FOR profit?

[AMystery]

Short answer: When I have it all.

Capitalists are not about making money, they are about destroying it. A capitalist wants to concentrate all of the wealth in one person.

I'm not necessarily a capitalist but I do have those impulses and I can tell you that given free reign, that is where they would lead.

Re:How about FOR profit?

[the unbeliever]

If you have enough to buy anything you want without having to extend credit, then that is enough money. Microsoft will never have to worry about running out of money since they have that $60 billion in the bank, so they can pour money into holes until it fills up and starts a profit (ie Xbox)

To a true capitalist, there is never enough money, and I'm fine with that.

Re:How about FOR profit?

[oliverthered]

Lift wingers like to party and have as many people around as possible, but don't take pride in 'how many people we had round'

Right wingers like to build bigger fences so they can try to forget that the neighbours exist, and do take pride in 'how big there fence is'

Re:How about FOR profit?

[Anonymous Coward]

Lift wingers like to party and have as many people around as possible, but don't take pride in 'how many people we had round'

Actually, it's more like "don't keep track of how many million people they had shot, because 'That wasn't a true implentattion of our ideology. Next time will be different.'"

Re:How about FOR profit?

[Anonymous Coward]

Capitalists are not about making money, they are about destroying it. A capitalist wants to concentrate all of the wealth in one person.

No, that might be what individual capitalists do, but capitalism is about the creation of wealth, not its destruction. The principle of capitalism is that wealth is not a zero-sum game: in an ideal capitalist society, the effect of everyone acquiring as much wealth as they are able is to create more wealth, so everyone becomes wealthier together.

As a socialist, I happen to believe that that won't work, and that capitalism only benefits society when carefully (though not necessarily heavy-handedly) regulated by a democratic government. But I try not to let my own political views cloud my understanding of other people's...

Re:How about FOR profit?

[Wateshay]

Well said!

I am a capitalist, and happen to believe socialism won't work, but it's nice to see someone who can disagree politely.

I also happen to be a compassionate person who sees noble value in doing things which are for the good of society, regardless of personal profit. I just happen to think that the decision to do that should be voluntary, not mandated.

Re:How about FOR profit?

[pandrijeczko]

Sorry, I don't understand how you "create wealth" when the resources you can sell are finite.

You can "redistribute wealth" - for example, if I buy a sack of seeds and grow a field of wheat, I make my wealth from the flour makers that buy my wheat from me. In other words, they lose some of their wealth (initially, before they make and sell flour) to give me wealth.

Capitalism is surely more about constantly redistributing the finite amount of wealth there is, not creating or destroying it.

I'm using the scientific analogy that "matter is neither created or destroyed" but since there is finite matter, then there has to be finite wealth.

Re:How about FOR profit?

[Anonymous Coward]

Which makes sense as long as only tangible things have value (i.e. intellectual property has no value, labour has no value etc).

Re:How about FOR profit?

[Sweetshark]

How about charging people for Gentoo [...] instead of a non-quantifiable warm & fuzzy feeling?
Because the warm and fuzzy feeling in the community has been and will be the key to gentoos success.
The only thing that was discussed was charging for the services of a security enhanced gentoo with longer ebuild lifetimes etc... However, this might come someday as a addon to the existing gentoo infrastructure ...

Re:How about FOR profit?

[toolio]

Not-For-Profit != Make no money

Not-for-profit organizations can and do make money. I know several not-for-profits that have a very healthy cash flow.

The great thing about an org of this type is that you channel your profits back into the organization and its people. Maybe then give some away also.

Not-for-profits aren't anti-capitalistic. they are simply another way to run a business.

Re:How about FOR profit?

[The Angry Mick]

A capitalist wants to concentrate all of the wealth in one person.

But this begs the one question that not one capitalist will dare to consider: Then what?

Once all the wealth is concentrated in one person (not that this would ever be possible), what happens next? Does the world stop with a victory celebration for the winner? Does Jesus/Allah/Vishnu/Buddha drop by for a congratulatory hug and a champagne shower? Do the people without the wealth cease to exist?

Seriously. What happens next? What is the prize for winning the capitalist game?

Re:How about FOR profit?

[Richthofen80]

Not true. Capitalism is not about destroying wealth. Capitalism is about the creation of wealth.

As a simple example:

there are many nations who have abundant natural resources, yet are financially poor.

Natural resources have a value; ie they have a price at which people are willing to pay, barter, or distribute. Now, if one was to take that resource and add human labor to create a product (fashioning a tool out of iron ore), that product has a value which is greater than the resource itself. (A hammer is worth more than the ore's value in the hammer. how much the human labor adds can be pennies or fortunes.) That the product has more value than the resource is the creation of wealth. If that product then allows the human labor of others to contribute even more value to resources, then the total wealth of the market/society is increased even more; ie a nation with crude oil can be poor; but a nation who refines the oil, uses it to trade for irrigation and agriculture can build their infrastructure, which lowers food prices, which increases the standard of living. (an example of this process, while not a completely capitalist nation, is the State of Israel.)

while this creation of wealth can happen in most types of economies, Capitalism specifically allows, through the idea of free trade, that individuals be allowed to excercise the freedom to choose which deals will grant them the greatest amount of wealth. ie an economy based on choice, not forced market prices and values.

Re:How about FOR profit?

[sunking2]

Who exactly was pressuring them to make money? Is there a group of men in black suits who go around to all the businesses and demand profits from them? Do these high-profile execs and shareholders just suddenly appear out of nowhere and take over all businesses that aren't NFP?

Sounds like an excuse to avoid taxes to me. Taxes that also go into things like medicade, building schools, roads, etc. But hey, yet another Linux distro, the United Way or various other charitable organizations, they seem pretty interchangable.

Although they don't have the status yet, anyone who donates to gentoo and takes it off their taxes should be ashamed of themselves. There's lots of kids with cancer out there who could use it more.

Re:How about FOR profit?

[Brandybuck]

Basically, being a NFP will relieve much of the money-making pressure on Gentoo, so they can fulfill their Social Contract, without having to compromise it so they can mmet some aribitrary profit targets imposed by shareholders and so.

There's no law saying it has to be a corporation. If you don't have shareholders, you don't have to compromise. In fact, incorporation itself is compromise!

Re:How about FOR profit?

[Brandybuck]

How about those of us that get a "warm & fuzzy feeling" about just being part of a global community ?

You don't have to be a non-profit corporation in order to be a part of the community. Linux (you know, that kernel thing) is very much a part of the community, yet it is unincorporated. It is not a businesses. It's just this one guy living in Santa Clara that's doing it!

Granted, since Gentoo doesn't have "just one guy" behind it, it does need an organizational structure. But that structure doesn't have to be a corporation.

Re:How about FOR profit?

[Nerd With Nalgene]

Capitalists are not about making money, they are about destroying it. A capitalist wants to concentrate all of the wealth in one person.

I'm sorry, but the idea that anybody would want to destroy money is ridiculous--what would be the purpose? To some degree you're correct that capitalism tends to concentrate wealth, but you're missing the point: capitalism concentrates wealth in the places where it is most useful, the places where it is most capable of creating more wealth. People who create money, get money so that they can use it to create more money. People who squander money don't get any more.

Re:How about FOR profit?

[AMystery]

I believe you just agreed with me more than you intended. Capitalists use money to create more money, thereby further concentrating the money in their possession. By destroying money, I was referring to destroying its nature as a transferred object, when all the money is contained in one person, does that money have any value? Not in and of itself, however it creates power. That is extremist obviously.

Re:How about FOR profit?

[AMystery]

Arguably once the wealth is redistributed into a single point, it ceases to have an inate value. When money stops moving it stops being worth anything more than the medium on which it is printed.

If you really want to quibble over the details, the communists want to destroy wealth by redistributing it equally while capitalists want to destroy wealth by accumulating it all. Obviously both examples are ideals and do not happen in reality, which is why we never have pure capitalism or pure communism, just human attempts at an ideal.

Re:How about FOR profit?

[bulliver]

The machinery of capitalism is fueled by the blood of the working man -Adil

Lets start compiling!

[isNaN]

Six months? I think my Gentoo install will be ready by then...

Re:Lets start compiling!

[Anonymous Coward]

What? Are you compiling on some kind of ancient ENIAC machine?

Interesting

[Lobo_Louie]

I knew Daniel Robbins was an Albuquerque resident, and has since quit Gentoo, but I didn't know/think they still would pursue NM tax free status.

Re:Interesting

[Krach42]

New Mexico is a gaping black hole that sucks people in and they never leave. I've had two friends move away just to come back here because this is where they found jobs.

Then of course there's all the other crackpots that live here, making Gentoo fit in real nice. Roswell's alien crowd, and the various hippy religious cults.

You can mod me down, but it's true.

Re:Interesting

[Myrrh]

There are various microclimates in New Mexico that are like that, yes. Namely, Los Alamos, Albuquerque, and Socorro. All have high concentrations of Ph.D's per capita. Plus the cost of living (compared to the East and West coasts) is incredibly low.

What's your reason for being here / staying here? I grew up here and managed to get a good job at WSMR, so I have no reason to go anywhere.

Re:Interesting

[Krach42]

I was born and raised here, haven't found a job to get me out of here yet.

I've been to Georgia for two months, and Germany for a month, but outside of that I've never lived anywhere but in Albuquerque or Las Cruces.

Re:Interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

New Mexico is what you make of it, I've lived here for quite a while and I really enjoy it. We have very mild weather, no natural disasters(short of drought and heat) and the people here are all extremely friendly compared to other places. It's also a highly religious community which is a plus from my standpoint but take it as you will. It also has a college with an incredible engineering department(NMSU).

The compiler jokes are becoming boring

[JTunny]

Making these jokes is getting to be worse than the zealots who made the ill-advised compiler flag comments in the first place.

Gentoo is an impressive distribution, although admittedly it has its faults (find me a distribution that doesn't). I'm glad I got to experiment with it before it became fashionable to make derogatory jokes about it. Tthere's a fair chance all the +5 funny/insightful diminishing comments might have deterred me.

Re:The compiler jokes are becoming boring

[EvilTwinSkippy]

I too have been playing with Gentoo since before Gentoo was cool. Well, popular. Ok, a cliche.

What I enjoy most is what most newbies bitch about. The minimalist installer. I just used the LiveCD to backup and restore a clients Win2K laptop last night. On that disk is a respectable arsenol to tools in the hands of a skilled wizard.

Portage, for it's warts, does the job. And where it doesn't it's simple enough to hack. I run my own offshoot for our in-house servers with a few custom ebuilds.

Re:The compiler jokes are becoming boring

[pandrijeczko]

Been through Mandrake, Red Hat, SuSE & Slackware and I'm now at Gentoo and sticking with it.

The idiots that moan about compile times don't understand the timesavings of just doing an "emerge" occasionally to update the system after it's built. Sure, it's not foolproof but then what OS is?

Gentoo has a cool attitude - to just make a damn good product and not give a damn about how much money they can make from it.

Re:The compiler jokes are becoming boring

[jadel]

Gentoo is my distro of choice, not because of the excellent installation information (any documentation that can take you through installing from scratch and make you think that was easy afterwards is quite and achievement.) nor because of the funky build optimizations or the security patches like propolice. It's the ability to try out new and cutting edge software without the ridiculous dependency chasing that used to be the case when I used a more conventional distro.
All in all despite the odd hiccup, gentoo has been a very positive experience.

Re:The compiler jokes are becoming boring

[Anonymous Coward]

An "arsenol" huh? Perhaps they should add a spellcheker to this tool box?

Re:The compiler jokes are becoming boring

[mattyrobinson69]

its like 80% all the other posts on slashdot (they all come from windows zombies??) - they're all repeating of jokes, which weren't funny to begin with.

i use slackware, but i compile most stuff myself (kde3.2.2 the other day actually, didn't take too long.....)

ive never tried gentoo one day, these posts haven't deteered me, im just lazy.

And for the record, my obsession with config files is completely healthy.

Re:The compiler jokes are becoming boring

[drinkypoo]

Frankly the gentoo "installer" is not so different from actual installers. There is very little that you have to do that is normally done by the installer without intervention. Some of the tasks are more difficult, like partitioning and installing grub, but the documentation makes it pretty easy anyway. All the stuff that makes linuxforscratch such a pain in the ass, namely downloading a bunch of packages which might not even exist on the sites any more (gnu ftp mirrors seem to have a lot of "issues" lately, don't they?) and patches for them, patching and building everything, is taken care of for you either during the bootstrap process or while emerging the system. It leaves you with the actually interesting parts of the install, although you do have to emerge a few extra packages like syslog, cron, and vim :D

I've really been quite happy with gentoo and would suggest it to anyone who does not have an excessively slow computer, unless they don't mind following a relaxed upgrade cycle. Sometimes incremental bugfix versions of major packages come out (like gnome or kde) and they can take a long time to build.

However, anyone who wants to run linux on a whole bunch of systems should definitely look into gentoo, because using distcc dramatically reduces the overhead of compiling everything. It doesn't even matter if they are disparate systems, because you can use crossgen to create a cross-compiling toolchain, and then run multiple distccds on different ports for different architectures. I use the default port for x86, and another for MIPS. Works like a charm.

Re:The compiler jokes are becoming boring

[Anonymous Coward]

http://funroll-loops.org/

Re:The compiler jokes are becoming boring

[Mr.Ned]

Off topic, but the website "Gentoo is for Ricers" (http://funroll-loops.org/) was passed around the debian-user list and the Gentoo Forums. It covers just about all the anti-Gentoo jokes.

Re:The compiler jokes are becoming boring

[Anonymous Coward]

What? You didn't try Debian (or a Debian-based distro, like Xandros or Knoppix)?

Nothing against Gentoo, but you haven't tried them all yet!

Re:The compiler jokes are becoming boring

[Anonymous Coward]

Debian == slow IMHO.

Re:The compiler jokes are becoming boring

[lorcha]

Sure, it's not foolproof but then what OS is?

Duh.

va lairIE/robbIE's PostBlock censorship devise

[Anonymous Coward]

probably won't be the profit leader for the SourceForgerIE(tm).

don't cry for US miguel.

previously titled:

va lairIE/robbIE answer yOUR questions interview (Score:mynuts won, TrollBait)
by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 07, @10:19AM (#9356075)
is almost ready?

remember, keep it simple. no questions about the monIE, or gnu online dating. the 'answers' have already been prepared buy a cesspool of ?pr firm? hypenosys talknicians, & will be released as soon as the questions match them.

it all seems more like some greed/fear/ego based badtoll, where evile WINds up eating it's young, if you ask US?

this stuff is unbreakable, & wwworks on/in several (more than 3) dimensions.

from a post meant to be titled:

unprecedented evile nearly disempowered, forever?
(score: mynuts won:-) previously PostBlocked(tm) material reposted)

by a disorganized rag-tag team of a few billion near nobodys, using what was available to them, which was almost nothing?

& just who are some of unprecedented evile's local representative(s)?:

The contract was awarded to Accenture, formerly Andersen Consulting, over two competing contractors, Lockheed Martin and Computer Sciences (a veritas (cess)pool of evile stock markp FraUDsters). Several industry executives and analysts said that the award surprised them and that Accenture had widely been considered the outside candidate.

The award also brought controversy. Accenture is incorporated in Bermuda, and some critics attacked the idea of awarding a contract so valuable and important to national security to a company with its headquarters outside the United States.

After Accenture was named, Representative Lloyd Doggett, a Texas Democrat, suggested the company took advantage of an uneven playing field to win the contract over Lockheed Martin and Computer Sciences.

"If companies truly want to contribute to our nation's security, they can pay their fair share of taxes. If they want a slice of the American pie, they had better help bake it," he said in a statement.

A spokesman for Accenture said that the company paid United States taxes.

Representative Richard E. Neal, a Massachusetts Democrat and a senior member of the House Ways and Means Committee, also questioned the award.

"This decision is outrageous," he said, in a statement. "The Bush administration has awarded the largest homeland security contract in history to a company that has given up its U.S. citizenship and moved to Bermuda. The inconsistency is breathtaking."

the stock markup FraUD/softwar gangster payper liesense hostage grab 'business plan' is looking a little hapless now?

fauxking billyonerrors. sheesh.

lookout bullow. tell 'em robbIE?

all is not lost.

consult with/trust in yOUR creators.... the returns are immeasurable/infinite.

see you there?

Due to excessive bad posting from this IP or Subnet, anonymous comment posting has temporarily (forever, if we had some ept) been disabled. You can still login to post. However, if bad posting continues from your IP or Subnet that privilege could be revoked as well. If it's you, consider this a chance to sit in the timeout corner or login and improve your posting . If it's someone else, this is a chance to hunt them down (like with fuddle's phonIE corepirate nazi bouNTy hunter scam). If you think this is unfair, we just don't care.

Bleeding Edge

[bircho]

Gentoo users have a unhealthy obsession with last hour' releases and broken brand new software. (BTW, gentoo running here)

Re:Bleeding Edge

[Anonymous Coward]

It really doesn't have to be though, the majority of my packages are x86, and a lot of those could even be updated to newer versions, because I don't use -u world.

Since I'm not exactly an attorney...

[Dagny Taggert]

or an especially smart businessman, could someone explain why Gentoo made this move at this time? BTW, I DO understand the contradiction with the name.

Re:Since I'm not exactly an attorney...

[Sweetshark]

could someone explain why Gentoo made this move at this time?
Because gentoo only flies because of its community reporting bugs (esp. on bug days, generating ebuilds, helping newbies on IRC and in the forums. The community felt (rightly) part of gentoo belonging to them and feared it might be taken away from them someday.
It is sad that Daniel Robbins moved on to other projects - however he got quite a farewell gift, lets hope he will return someday ...

Less negativity please!

[barcodez]

Good on you Gentoo team - I wish you every success.

I might even put my money where my mouth is onces it's tax deductable.

Any plans to do the same in Europe?

True meaning of 'Not for Profit'

[LittleKing]

I think there are several people that do not understand what a Not for Profit company really means. Not for Profit doesn't mean they do not make money it only means that they cannot have 'extra cash' on hand at the end of their fiscal year. They can still have money in savings because you can budget money into saving. Also at times, working for a NFP company can be a benifit since they can't have 'extra cash' then they sometimes pay really well.

Take Blue Cross Blue Shield (an American insurance company), they are actually a NFP organization. Most people don't realize this but it is true.

Re:True meaning of 'Not for Profit'

[EvilTwinSkippy]

Er, no. Most non-profits don't generate a whole lotta cash for anyone without a "vice" or "president" in their title. I speak from experience.

Re:True meaning of 'Not for Profit'

[tgd]

You've worked for most non-profits?

Your resume must be huge.

Re:True meaning of 'Not for Profit'

[EvilTwinSkippy]

No, merely enough of them.

Re:True meaning of 'Not for Profit'

[Anonymous Coward]

Second that. Those clowns as ISC2 who sponsor the CISSP secuirty certification are listed as a "not for profit". They are laughing all the way to be bank.

Re:True meaning of 'Not for Profit'

[Anonymous Coward]

actually Blue Cross Blue Shield is a publicly traded company, so they definetly make money... 22 billion dollars worth.

mmm, unhealthy...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, and when I go in to work this morning the Slack box kicked under my desk will have 273 days of uptime.

And yes, it will be running.

Slackware: When you want to get the work done.

Re:mmm, unhealthy...

[Krach42]

Just remember, Jesus runs Slackware.

Re:mmm, unhealthy...

[GedConk]

But God probably runs Gentoo...

For compatibility reasons, you can still issue the command that created everything:

emerge world

What I wonder is, what USE flags he used...

Anyway, he must have had some pretty powerful machine, as everything compiled in a few days.

Re:mmm, unhealthy...

[Anonymous Coward]

"But God probably runs Gentoo..."

Yea, but He has the time.

Re:mmm, unhealthy...

[Krach42]

Bah, it only took him 6 days to "emerge world", I'd say he has a beast system in the first place.

I've worked at a lot of non-profit startups

[tjic]

I've worked at a lot of non-profit startups.

Gentoo is a lot more sophisticated than most of my former employers, though.

They didn't get non-profitable status legally established until the bankruptcy hearings.

Aren't they non-profit already??

[Eggplant62]

I mean, with all the latest press saying that "Linux is a Religion, not an OS", you'd think that they'd get non-profit status as a church or something.

Re:Aren't they non-profit already??

[EvilTwinSkippy]

And Linus turned to his disciples and said, "Take this, the source of the Linux Kernel. It was written for you and for all people. Take and compile."

When it was finished compiling he drew out a patch, dissolved it in guiness and said "This is the blood of the project. It was shed for the corrections of all bugs. Take and drink."

Re:Aren't they non-profit already??

[Anonymous Coward]

Netcraft confirms it: BSD died for your sins.

Re:Aren't they non-profit already??

[dr bacardi]

Sorry, any other typo I can take... but Guinness has two 'n's, and in the context above, that misspelling could be considered blasphemy.

They Can't have Profits!?

[Anonymous Coward]

Could we at least give them a side of red and green?

Now the only ones that can make money…

[Anonymous Coward]

...are the "employees" of that organization! They make sure that they get very nice salary checks and their board, of course. All those donation hours will really help keep their costs down.

I guess someone finally found a sustainable business model for LINUX. At least they found one for themselves.

And this means

[metallikop]

Free, untaxable, funroll-loops for the rest of us!

still no profit? still thirsty?

[Anonymous Coward]

try this strange brew, that's good for you, & freely distributable too.

portage

[bender183]

emerge government-funding

Non-Profit?

[bfg9000]

Congratulations on joining the illustrious ranks of such heavy hitters as Nortel, Novell, and SCO.

Of course, these guys aren't TRYING to be non-profit ... except (of course) the guys at SCO, who seem to be basing their business decisions on the wisdom of the Magic 8-Ball.

*ENOUGH* money

[dpilot]

Another one giving up mod to reply...

The real problem is a hijacking of the concept of 'money'. 'Money' was originally meant to be a means of extended barter. You need a chicken, I need work done on my house, but I have spare corn instead of a chicken. We could find a third party that needs corn, and has a chicken. Or we could come up with 'money' that lets us extend our barter system into a marketplace, and allows all goods to become more liquid.

Unfortunately, for some people money has turned into a measure of self-esteem. They're not even collecting castles, or jet planes, or home theaters, or any sort of goods, any more. They measure their success by incrementing digits.

Also unfortunately, as much as we'd like to think of the economy as an expanding pie that has room for everyone to get as much as they want without depriving others, it just isn't. Though there is some expansion, the finite size of the pie is painfully apparent to many. In order for the more successful to tick their digits upward, they end up taking away from others. In other terms, this can be called 'downsizing', 'offshoring', 'making benefits competitive', and the like.

Why this use of money is bad is that it's so easy to tick digits upward. Had these people been accumulating toys and property, it would be more obviously outrageous.

The nifty thing about a gift economy is that it lets you measure your self-esteem through contribution. But it does need to piggyback on top of a money economy, because goods in the real world aren't free, and we all need to eat and get out of the rain.

Finding the balance between gift and money economies, and getting Joe 6pak to buy into that balance, is the task for TruenGenius.

Re:*ENOUGH* money

[4of12]

Finding the balance between gift and money economies

An effective policy in the direction of achieving this balance is having 50% inheritence taxes, but allowing those people who accumulate a lot of money to avoid taxes on amounts given to a charitable foundation.

Moving onto philanthropy is really just the next level of achievement for these people.

Once they realize that they have enough talent to "win" at life in the money world, and feel comfortable with achieving that goal, the next challenge is to use their talents to improve more than just one life for just one lifetime.

Debian is not only Debian-stable

[muyuubyou]

Debian unstable or testing cover that. I don't know how those optimizations were done in the tests, but all the benchmarks I've seen so far Debian is the winner.

I'm a Debian/Slack/freeBSD user who will give Gentoo a shot sometime soon. One think I'd love to do is establishing some kind of standarized benchmarks. Uptime is not everything for the desktop.

Gentoo better Desktop distro than Debian?

[funkytwig]

So what is so great about Gentoo as a Desktop and bad about Debian. I use Debian as a Desktop and it is great. The only gripe I have is it is a bit fiddly to set up X, but with Knoppix (which is Debian based) this is partly solved (i.e. I steel its XFree86-4 file).

As far as I am concerned to be good for Desktop it should be relatively easy for the first time Desktop novice to get it working, from what I here Gentoo requires more time/teche effort to get installed so how could it be a better Desktop GNU/Linux?

Don't get me wrong I have heard a lot of great things about Gentoo but ease of first install is not one of them.

Re:Gentoo better Desktop distro than Debian?

[diamondsw]

Says the person who has to filch files from another distro to get his working?

Re:Gentoo better Desktop distro than Debian?

[irexe]

Well, the folks at Debian are not very desktop-minded. This is actually what makes Debian such a fantastic server distro, but if you are more of a multimedia guy/gal it may be annoying. The Debian attitude has a number of implications for desktop users:

1. The community: Asking questions on #debian about your KDE install is likely to get you responses like 'bah! I don't use desktops. I use X occasionally, but I don't really use KDE. Read the manual!'. Since Linux is a DIY OS, this may be troublesome.

2. The apps: by the time I switched to Gentoo, I could emerge KDE 3.1, whilst deb stable was still at the ancient KDE 2. At that time, Unstable was severely broken because of the whole gcc versioning issue. In general, new desktop apps appear in Gentoo in a matter of days, even hours after a release, whereas Debian unstable is a lot slower and more conservative at adapting.

3. The features: Gentoo is a bit more friendly towards newer features as well. As an example, getting ALSA to work in Debian about 1.5 years ago was a big pain. Gentoo supported it ever since I switched. In fact, it was my main reason for switching. Gentoo had a clear ALSA installation Howto present and all core packages were in Portage.

The point I like to stress here is that these differences are a direct result of the Debian attitude towards desktop usage. Don't take my word for it, go out on the irc channels and talk to these people. They are not keen on new desktop features and getting the latest media player or desktop environment to work is just not on their agenda. That's cool, unless it is on your agenda. Then you might want to give Gentoo a spin.

Re:Gentoo better Desktop distro than Debian?

[rdslater596]

To add to this--the Gentoo Forums are usually a VERY helpful place to get information. What really set Gentoo apart is the ability of the current users to not post a response as RTFM!!

If they do, they usualy link directly to the portion of TFM you need to read.....

Re:Gentoo better Desktop distro than Debian?

[Hatta]

USE flags. Specify "opengl" in your make.conf and everything on your system that supports it will take advantage. Or suppose you prefer the console version of aumix to the X version. Just 'USE="-X" emerge aumix' Mplayer is a simple emerge away, and it's very well configured with a plethora of codecs.

Install time and effort is immaterial, since you only do it once (like debian). With the provided instructions, it's really not any harder than debians install. (though that's not saying much).

I like both distros. But gentoo's a much better choice as far as multimedia is concerned.

Re:Gentoo better Desktop distro than Debian?

[funkytwig]

Well actualy I choose to (i.e. I dont have to), cos its quick and easy. If I was to install gentoo I may also choose to get knoppix to generat the X config file, unless of course gentoo install probes the hardware and creates the file for me.

Re:Gentoo better Desktop distro than Debian?

[funkytwig]

You have convinced me to give it a go. The only thing is that I have a few frends who are interested in using linux and are ot that technical. My main interest is in these type of peopel using Linux. Interestingly loTech in shefield run a totaly recycled free to use internet cafe. They chose Mandrake because it was the easiest to get people to take home and install themselves. Also the sheer amount of time it takes to compile (or even update) everything puts me off a bit.

Re:Gentoo better Desktop distro than Debian?

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no Gentoo install interface and the X config file is not created for you.
I usually run X -configure to create a basic config file for my configuration (X probes the hardware) and edit it from there. It's not that difficult as long as you read the man pages and/or use the well commented example config.
Gentoo does require some work to setup, but in my case it has definitely been worth the trouble. Once it's up and running it is very easy to mainain.

Re:Gentoo better Desktop distro than Debian?

[bulliver]

You are both right and wrong. Gentoo is notoriously hard for noobs to install/configure/use but if you know what you are doing you can have ALL of your software compiled and optimized to create a screaming fast desktop machine.

Gentoo icon?

[Chuck Bucket]

Can Slashdot finally get a Gentoo icon now? One of these days you really think it should...

(insert joke that the Gentoo icon is still compiling here...)

CB

Re:Gentoo icon?

[xannik]

I agree with you. There are quite a few icons on slashdot that don't even get half as many stories as gentoo. Some examples are eplus, GNUstep, TurboLinux, even OS9. I think it is definitely passed time for a gentoo icon.

rtfb

[eean]

except thats exactly what the blurb says

Re:rtfb

[Dausha]

Well, not exactly. While they do admit there's a six month process to become Federally recognized, immediately before they say they are NFP in the United States. While technically true, it is slightly misleading. Perhaps the blurb should read that "the process of becoming Federally recognized has acheived a key milestone."

Just my .03 cents (adj. inflation)

Re:rtfb

[eean]

I think any state in the union will recognize that they are a corporation, just like you can be born in California but Missouri will recognize your birth certificate anyways, as required by the US Constitution (and common sense). I think the whole thing about being federally-recognized is just for tax stuff.

In Sweden

[Anonymous Coward]

In Sweden it takes 0.1 second to create a non-profit organisation.... You in USA are so slow....

isn't VISA not for profit too?

[xutopia]

Would this mean that Gentoo could take over the world like Visa did?

Non-profits are permitted to make money

[The Ape With No Name]

They just can't pay a return on the money they make. They can disburse it charitably, reinvest it, etc. There is such a tough regimen of oversight in the American non/not-for profit. If only Enron and those evil fucks had to live by a 503's rules.

I used to run a non-profit environmental journal. We made money on occasion and when we had excess we had this nifty idea called: giving it to the poor. Problem is: that makes you a hell-bound commie in Merika.

Re:Non-profits are permitted to make money

[Dhraakellian]

"We made money on occasion and when we had excess we had this nifty idea called: giving it to the poor. Problem is: that makes you a hell-bound commie in Merika."

Either that or a philanthropist who wants the freedom to donate where he/she chooses instead of where the guys in Washington, D.C. choose.

Re:Non-profits are permitted to make money

[The Almighty Dave]

How much money do you think the for profit companies give to charity? I'll bet those evil fucks have given more than you will see in your lifetime. Nobody is calling them hell-bound commies.

Anyone else?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does anyone else, "officially", not give a shit?

This needs to change

[Progman3K]

We live in a climate and culture where a young man like Bill Gates can become unimaginably rich by first buying someone else's work and fobbing it off on the public, but where people of vision like Daniel Robbins nearly loses everything he has trying to bring to the public a product that will benefit everyone.

Donate to Gentoo, I did, and even if I gave them $100 a year, it'd STILL be a much better deal than if I was able to get Windows for free, forever.

Re:This needs to change

[cjpez]

We live in a climate and culture where...

... er, yes, that's right. We live in a climate and culture where someone selling a product stands a better chance of earning money than someone who gives something away for free. I imagine that a similar climate and culture has been present throughout most of the history of Taker mankind. Don't get me wrong, I haven't used Windows at home for years, and I've always been a Linux advocate (well, since I found out about Linux anyway), but there's just nothing surprising about someone losing money by throwing their lives into a cause which, however cool, is severely lacking in the Revenue Streams Department.

Re:This needs to change

[rongten]

It is a laudable intention.

In one year of use of OSS/libre software, what are
100$, if one does not buy retail boxes or does not support in other ways the OSS community?

However, of these 100$, one could think to devote some to the FSF, that stands for the ideals that are not only behind Gentoo, but behind the whole GNU/Linux scenario.

So, why not support FSF AND Gentoo as well, still within the prefixed budget?

Maybe You could scrap something for the EFF as well...

Re:This needs to change

[Progman3K]

>We live in a climate and culture where someone selling a product stands a better chance of earning money than someone who gives something away for free. I imagine that a similar climate and culture has been present throughout most of the history of Taker mankind.

Yes. You're correct, but I wonder if we aren't harming ourselves by acting like this:

When you take money and apply it exclusively to commercialization, without using any for research, then you usually get poor innovation and stagnation.

When you take money and put it in applied research (research specifically directed at developing a specific product), you usually also get poor innovation and stagnation.

On the other hand, when you apply money to pure research without trying to force it into commercial applications, you usually get tremendous innovation and growth, and those usually spring up almost by accident.

So maybe always chasing the brass ring is harming us and we need to concentrate on developing operating systems purely so they can be the best they CAN be, without trying to hawk them.

It seems to me that free (as in speech) software has this as its goal, and that the quicker we realize it, the faster tributary economies can spring up around it and potentially dwarf anything Microsoft ever achieved.

In the end, the mindset might or might-not change, but we'll all be better off, in any case.

Re:This needs to change

[The MESMERIC]

One way to donate to Gentoo is buying their CDs.
Fine.
But last time I bought them it took ages (about 2 months?) for it to arrive.
I just take it, it was due to high demand but not complancy - which is OK.
Anyway hope things changed now - am thinking of buying another CD for a friend of mine.

But Gentoo is a charity case

[aussie_a]

Just kidding, I know nothing about it, but the pun had to be said :-P

it has to be said....

[presmike]

Their nationwide non-profit status is still compiling ;)

Profit in support not selling bits ...

[pherris]

IMO I think the traditional "for profit" software business model just doesn't work for GNU/Linux distros. What I'd like to see is Gentoo move into the "pay for phone support" business. Got a question you need answered now? Pay us $75USD and we'll help. Questions and answers can be read on a website so everyone benefits. There's profit in it while bring cash in to support an excellent distro. It's possible that $75 could be written off as a donation (kinda like "underwriting" on public radio/tv).

I'm personally thankful that the "powers that be" at Gentoo have the "Gentoo GNU/Linux Social Contract". If you're running another distro you really need to check Gentoo out. Gentoo's future is quite bright.

Re:Profit in support not selling bits ...

[Tarantolato]

IMO I think the traditional "for profit" software business model just doesn't work for GNU/Linux distros.

That's a rather sweeping statement. Time will tell. So far Red Hat's doing pretty well at it. Moreover, there's more to the Linux distro business than just selling shrinkwrap vs. support. IBM, Novell and Sun, for example, are using their distros as loss-leaders (or break-even leaders, whatever) to drive sales of stuff like hardware, server software, and consulting.

What I'd like to see is Gentoo move into the "pay for phone support" business. Got a question you need answered now? Pay us $75USD and we'll help.

Phone support for home users is a proven loser in nearly all cases. Enterprise support often requires more than phone work. Plus Gentoo's core audience is a bunch of do-it-yourselfer fanatics, so I can't imagine much cash in selling support to them.

Re:Profit in support not selling bits ...

[pherris]

That's a rather sweeping statement. Time will tell. So far Red Hat's doing pretty well at it.

Yes they are. They were doing better though when they had RH Linux (for free) and you could buy yearly subscriptions for $80. I personally bought one for myself and two for work. I know I could've bought one and juggled it around but RH is pretty cool and I didn't feel right about being that cheap with them.

Moreover, there's more to the Linux distro business than just selling shrinkwrap vs. support.

I'm curious, what else is there [to make money] than shrinkwrap and support (and I guess OEM sales)? I believe there will always be a market for shrinkwraped GNU/Linux and it should get much larger over the next few years but again, for how long? I should say there's nothing stopping Gentoo (except their social contract) or someone else from shrinkwrapping Gentoo, adding something like YAST on SUSE and selling it per disk.

Phone support for home users is a proven loser in nearly all cases. Enterprise support often requires more than phone work.

I wouldn't wish working a home support call on my worst enemy. The money is in the enterprise market, like RH is doing. I've seen people offer up blank checks just to get a server back online ASAP. And, yes, most of the time there's more work involved than just answering a question. That's where the cost goes up.

Plus Gentoo's core audience is a bunch of do-it-yourselfer fanatics, so I can't imagine much cash in selling support to them. That, IMO, will change. Gentoo is very flexable and is stable enough to be used in a production enviroment. Once IT guys start using it at home it wont be long before it makes it into their company's server room. That seems to be the story will Red Hat.

What I'm saying is that while there's some money in shrinkwrap sales I believe the long term profits are in tech support. Gentoo doesn't have to go the way of Mandrake, SUSE, Red Hat or Linspire to be successful. Sometimes the lesser travelled road brings the greater rewards. Besides AFAIK Debian is still king of the hill for distros and they have shuned the pay per disk model. In the same vein RH lost a lot of supporters (and money from subscribers to RHN) when they killed off RHL. That's when I moved to Gentoo and, to my initial surprise, liked it better.

I'm not really disagreeing with what you're say, I just think the most common way might not be the best. You made some good points though. Thanks.

Apples and oranges...

[jbeaupre]

But didn't Microsoft start in Albuquerque, New Mexico?

Whew!

[mrgeometry]

Not-for-profit, eh? Underpants throughout the land breath a sigh of relief!

zach

Reserved for churches?

[Anonymous Coward]

But gentoo is my church!

Snore

[Anonymous Coward]

ZZZZZ ZZZZ ZZZzzz zzzzzzz zzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Nonprofit???

[bluethundr]

Non-profit as in reaally non profit? Or non-profit as in United Wayyyyy non-profit?

Re:Nonprofit???

[iswm]

The store goes to help Daniel Robbins pay off his personal debt (~$20k) that he's in due to his investments in Gentoo over the years.

This just seen

[The Ape With No Name]

Orthogonally, some non/nots are more efficient

I'll second that

[SnappingTurtle]

I'd be surprised if they weren't granted 501(c)3 status. 501(c)3 status covers a broad range of organizations. The production and coordination of open source software would surely fit into the IRS's category for 501(c)3.

BTW, churches usually don't try to get 501(c)3 status, although the charitable organzations they run often do. See this FAQ for details.

Well hey, donate it to us

[SnappingTurtle]

Tell ya what, if you ever make money again, you can donate it to the organization I work for and I personally vouch that we won't call you a commie.

OK

[The Ape With No Name]

You are on.

Um... huh?

[SnappingTurtle]

A capitalist wants to concentrate all of the wealth in one person

Where in the world did you get THAT from? Even concerning the world's richest capitalist, Bill Gates, his strategy included making his employees filthy stinking rich, more so than any other company ever. Some of his janitors made millions. That's hardly "concentrating all of the wealth in one person".

Re:Um... huh?

[AMystery]

His strategy was to make lots of money, that fact that other people also made money was not a motivating factor. If he could have made the money without paying them I bet he would have, at least ot the extend that is morally possible. However, my example was capitalism in a vaccuum which obviously never happens.

Slashdotted

[ngyahloon]

Wow....even Gentoo's website can be slashdotted. Hmm.. does that mean that there werent as many gentoo users as i thought it should be?

not the first distro to do this

[neal n bob]

Ninnle has been tax exempt for years.

"Creating" wealth? (Re:How about FOR profit?)

[Spaceman40]

No such thing, bub - only redistribution of it. Who needs a billion sq.foot house when you most likely won't see half of it? Just pointless.

What's next you ask

[Psymunn]

A neeeeeeeeeeeeew televions set
but wait, there's more. If you get this skill testing question right, you and your wife could be off for a weekend iiiiiiiiiin reno
there you can loose all your cash and teh game starts all over again

Re:Why does it have to target a niche?

[cbreaker]

Gentoo is what it is. I like it, I use it. It works for me. I like how easy updating it and installing new software is. Other people like it for other reasons, or just to (think they are) cool.

The niche finds the distribution, rather then the other way around. Linux is really awesome like that, you can use it for whatever you want to use it for.

You can put Mandrake on all your servers and Redhat on all your workstations if you want to. You can put Gentoo on the firewalls and SuSE on the mail server. Whatever you want.

a good answer from bash

[Suchetha]

#slackware on efnet 4-22-04 12:57 am EST -5.00
<mfbian_> how will you compare slackware and freebsd
<Cheethoe> apples and oranges
<mfbian_> fair enough
<`justin`> slackware = for people that have been molested freebsd = people that want to molest their mothers
<`justin`> openbsd = for people that probably wont ever get molested
<`justin`> netbsd = molesting of all minorities, and cock asians
<mfbian_> how about gentoo
<`justin`> I dont know ask khai
--> biggy (something@1Cust26.tnt1.columbus.in.da.uu.net) has joined #slackware
<`justin`> oh wait I do know
<mfbian_> you don't know anything
--> supergoad (~supergoad@pcp08611785pcs.waldrf01.md.comcast.net ) has joined #slackware
<`justin`> mfbian_: gentoo = people that want to molest their mothers, fathers, uncles, aunts, sisters, brothers, dogs, but can't get it up

original here
Suchetha

I have both

[kardar]

I use both Debian testing (Sarge) and Gentoo 2004.0, just recently installed (two different machines)

It's frustrating, because I have to choose one or the other; I like them both so much.

The thing I like about Gentoo is that it is much easier (some folks actually recommend) to keep current "piecemeal", which would be better for dialup. You can update one package at a time, or, more precisely, one package and its dependencies at a time.

Debian is sort of easiest (in my experience) to upgrade all at once, which, depending on the last time you upgraded your system, might require some serious downloading of stuff. There are many benefits, especially if you just want to do it and get it over with, to upgrading all at once, but this whole process is made significantly faster and easier if you have a fast connection.

I think Debian Sarge and Gentoo are both excellent, but if I had to use dial-up, I would be tempted to go with Gentoo because the upgrades are easier to do package by package, and I could just run an update to a package in the background every now and then. The command-line nature of emerge and the --pretend switch are extremely helpful in picking and choosing exactly what you want to update, port by port. And the forums, and the installation instructions are just downright wonderful.

Profit!

[palpatine]

1. Form Not-For-Profit Corporation
2. ???
3. Profit!

That's the first thing that came to my mind. Oh, what a simple mind I have. :P

Altruism

[The Ape With No Name]

For tax-breaks and tax-breaks alone. Take away the incentive and the money dries up. We'll just settle on "hell-bound," MmmKay?

Re:Altruism

[The Almighty Dave]

I don't think that it is impossible that they would still give money. Donating to charity is a good investment for public relations. People like companies that put forth an illusion of caring.

Re:Altruism

[The Ape With No Name]

an illusion of caring

Which is not very altruistic. I don't mean to sound like Kant here, but public relations promotion or tax breaks are both fickle reasons. Doing it because it helps should be primary. The other stuff is merely gravy.

Re:Altruism

[The Almighty Dave]

Doing it because it helps should be primary

Should it? Has any charitable organization asked you your motive for contributing money for their cause? Do you think that they would refuse, if you told them you were only doing it for a tax deduction or for P.R.?

Doing it at all should be primary.