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Look Inside A PC-killing WIPO Treaty

mouthbeef writes "The Broadcast Treaty is a proposal from a WIPO Subcommittee that's supposedly about stopping 'signal theft.' But along the way, this proposal has turned into a huge, convoluted hairball that threatens to make the PC illegal, trash the public domain, break copyleft and put a Broadcast Flag on the Internet. The treaty negotiation process is unbelievably convoluted and hard-to-follow, and they've just wrapped up the latest round in Geneva. But for the first time, a really large group of "civil society" orgs were accredited to attend. Me and another EFF staffer and the Coordinator of the Union for the Public Domain created a heavily editorialized impressionistic transcript of the meeting (EFF mirror, UPD mirror), trying to untie the knots in the negotiation. This is the first time that a really exhaustive peek inside a WIPO treaty negotiation has ever been published -- get it while it's legal!"

101 of 514 comments (clear)

  1. DUPE! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative
    "This is the first time that a really exhaustive peek inside a WIPO treaty negotiation has ever been published -- get it while it's legal!""

    Unfortunately, I already beat you to it! and most of the links you mention were alreayd mentione din comments. All I have to say is... if you're going to have an email address so that subscribers can let the editors know of dupes, atleast READ the email you get on it

    Signed,
    AC

    1. Re:DUPE! by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 2, Funny

      If you look on the Slashdot games What We're Playing sidebar, you'll notice that Timothy lists his game, as of this writing, as frozen bubble, flightgear, and Kbounce - all open source, linux-based games - while the rest of the /. crew is playing Final Fantasy X-2, Unreal Tournament 2002, KOTOR, RtCW, and the like.

      I can draw a few tenatitve inferences from this: that Timothy doesn't have a game console or a windows machine, that he's perhaps exclusively dedicated to open source software, and that he's probably too busy recompiling his kernel to actually read Slashdot.

  2. Hooray for the UN! by penginkun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Boy, it's obvious the UN isn't in the pocket of the Big Corporations, yessiree!

    Will they outlaw ink and paper next?

    1. Re:Hooray for the UN! by csbruce · · Score: 4, Informative

      Boy, it's obvious the UN isn't in the pocket of the Big Corporations, yessiree!

      No, the UN is worse. It's $10-billion oil-for-food scandal makes Wall Street accounting foibles look like kiddy play. This follows directly from Bruce's Law: All unaccountable organizations are corrupt.

    2. Re:Hooray for the UN! by MoonBuggy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Will they outlaw ink and paper next?

      If they outlaw my PC, my OS's license and the OSS project which I am involved in, it looks like I'm going to be an outlaw, as they say.

      When laws stop making any kind of sense or justice, I stop obeying them.

    3. Re:Hooray for the UN! by csbruce · · Score: 4, Informative

      Here is some interesting reading. Just Google for it. It's funny how you don't hear much about this on the nightly news. If it's not bad enough that the UN is a sprawling bureaucracy that burns through billions of dollars a year and can always be counted on to sit on its ass while tens of millions of civilians are murdered by their own governments, it still maintains a petina of legitimacy among those who like to maintain their comfortable illusions. Just listen to how dogmatically its apologists defend it. "It must be good... because it must be." It's only real contribution to the world is to provide a meeting place for representatives from around the world to talk. But surely a tables and chairs can be had for less than the UN's annual budget.

    4. Re:Hooray for the UN! by No+Such+Agency · · Score: 2

      ...If it's not bad enough that the UN is a sprawling bureaucracy that burns through billions of dollars a year and can always be counted on to sit on its ass while tens of millions of civilians are murdered by their own governments, it still maintains a petina of legitimacy among those who like to maintain their comfortable illusions. Just listen to how dogmatically its apologists defend it. "It must be good... because it must be." It's only real contribution to the world is to provide a meeting place for representatives from around the world to talk. But surely a tables and chairs can be had for less than the UN's annual budget.

      Yeah, but it takes more than that to get people from (sometimes very mutually antagonistic) countries to sit in those chairs and talk. I can't claim encyclopedic knowledge of the UN's history and function, but I'm pretty sure those defending it have better arguments than "it must be good". UN peacekeeping alone is a unique entity in the history of the world, the fact that soldiers with unloaded weapons and *very* restrictive Rules of Engagement can considerably reduce the violence in an area just by being there goes a long way to proving the UN's worth in my mind.

      The fact that the current US gov't (and the Clinton one before that) declares the UN "irrelevant" does not make it so. If it's so irrelevant, why do Security Council members still bother to routinely veto the resolutions that condemn their, and their client states', abuses?

      --
      Freedom: "I won't!"
    5. Re:Hooray for the UN! by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Shirking their duties? It's the US Congress constituencies that are pushing for this kind of crap. Follow the money: who do you think benefits from this sort of thing? What's really needed is non-US legislatures to stand up to threats of sanctions and trade barriers. Do you have any idea of how much pressure the US put on Brazil and Canada regarding the pharmaceutical industry's intellectual property?

    6. Re:Hooray for the UN! by duffbeer703 · · Score: 2

      No, the Oil-for-food scandal where, among other things, the son of the UN Secretary General received VERY lucrative consulting contracts in exchange for too good to be true deals to "administer" the oil for food program.

      BTW, ever wonder where those semi-trailers of $100 bills captured in Baghdad came from?

      --
      Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
  3. That else are the gonna do? by Skyshadow · · Score: 4, Funny

    Hey, if the government doesn't trash the economy and the rights of individuals in order to protect an outdated and relatively small sector of the business community, what good are they?

    --
    Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
    1. Re:That else are the gonna do? by Planesdragon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      After all... the fact that George W Bush is President proves that we do not have a democracy.

      Not at all.

      The fact that Gore aquiesced and neither Gore's nor Bush's supporters rebelled due to the court's decision and the Senate's failure to act is proof that we DO have a democracy.

      The fact that the Senate didn't do their job and debate the Florida results in Congress, which essentially gave Bush the presidency, is proof that each left-wing Senator elected before 2000 is a pansy and a pushover who should resign.

    2. Re:That else are the gonna do? by Xaleth+Nuada · · Score: 5, Informative

      One common fallacy that keeps coming up in all these debates with regards to the 2000 election is the word democracy. This is the one word that everyone keeps saying and yet doesn't apply. Why?

      Because The United Stated of America is a REPUBLIC. Yes the citizens are given the right to vote. But unlike a true (read: classical) democracy we do not vote on the specific issues, except in state or local elections. We vote in represenatives to do our voting for us. In ancient Greece (Athens) every voting citizen would gather together and vote on the issues that the government was dealing with (taxes, war, trade, etc.) One citizen, one vote. Or as we like to call it: The Popular Vote. (Popular being Populus or Population)

      We don't do that in the US. Our Presidental elections were set up from the beginning with an electoral college. We vote to tell other people how to vote. This is the foundation of a Republic (see the combo of the word represent and public?) Etymology and History are neat huh?

      --

      I read Slashdot for the .sigs
    3. Re:That else are the gonna do? by DaHat · · Score: 4, Informative

      You misunderstand my point.

      First up though... it was not the Senate's place to act as the vote in Florida was certified and the electors voted as expected based on the certified results. Quoting from the Federal Election Comission:

      In the event no one obtains an absolute majority of electoral votes for president, the U.S. House of Representatives (as the chamber closest to the people) selects the president from among the top three contenders with each State casting only one vote and an absolute majority of the States being required to elect. Similarly, if no one obtains an absolute majority for vice president, then the U.S. Senate makes the selection from among the top two contenders for that office.

      Now back to my point:

      In a democracy, the majority rules, and those eligible to vote are given the opportunity to directly vote on an issue.

      In a representative democracy, we elect persons who we believe will represent our interests.

      In a republic (as we have (I can prove it later if you don't believe me), we vote for electors and ultimately tell them what we would like them to do, but for the most part they are NOT required to act as we ask.

      Only 26 states in the union ( + DC) have laws requiring an elector to cast their ballot in a given way... and yes, Florida is one of those states.

      That means of the remaining 24, comprising of 254 Electoral Votes, are NOT required to vote for the candidate that their state does. Traditionally they do, however they are not required to and theoretically, if a large enough number of electors voted differently then the population of the states they represent did... we could have an elected president who received even fewer votes (percentage wise) then Bush did in 2000.

      If you think for a moment that the fact that "The fact that Gore acquiesced" counts him out, you are sadly mistaken and need to do some reading on how US Presidential Elections work.

    4. Re:That else are the gonna do? by ArsSineArtificio · · Score: 2, Interesting
      This is the foundation of a Republic (see the combo of the word represent and public?) Etymology and History are neat huh?

      Yes, etymology is neat, when you get it right. "Republic" is from the Latin words "res publica", and means "things pertaining to the people" or "public business".

      --
      All employees must wash hands before seeking equitable relief.
    5. Re:That else are the gonna do? by Tristan7 · · Score: 5, Funny

      And as much as I hate what my senators vote for, they do represent the firmly held beliefs of the assholes that live down the street.

    6. Re:That else are the gonna do? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 2, Informative
      Today, we have the situation where our representatives no longer represent us (and definitely do not deserve the title of "statesman") - instead, at best, they look after their own interests, and damn the citizenry! They are corrupt, and this has changed the game significantly.

      /laughs hysterically

      This has been said, slightly paraphrased, in every generation of American politics. I suspect it has been said of every Legislative body in the history of the world.

      The Electoral College was not invented to prevent the people from making a mistake. It was invented to give smaller states enough influence in the Presidential elections that their concerns could not be ignored by the Presidential candidates. It does that nicely.

      Also, note its secondary purpose - to convince the smaller states that their interests would not be ignored so that they would ratify the Constitution. Which it also did nicely.

      If you believe that the Electoral College no longer serves a useful purpose, I suggest you write to your representative and senators, asking them to introduce a Constitutional Amendment abolishing same, and requiring the direct election of President/Vice. Then wait for the process to work - if enough people agree, it will eventually happen.

      Not, mind you, that I think it is a good idea, or that you will ever convince the majority of 38 Legislatures that it is a good idea....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
  4. Stop stealing the photons I'm emitting by IvyMike · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm serious. I keep emitting photons, and all these people keep engaging in signal theft, usually by looking at me, or even more nefariously by having cameras.

    1. Re:Stop stealing the photons I'm emitting by JeffTL · · Score: 4, Funny

      Actually you are REFLECTING photons, therefore infringing on the intellectual property of General Electric, Westinghouse, many other lumination consultancy firms, and moreover the stars themselves. Pirate!

    2. Re:Stop stealing the photons I'm emitting by DaHat · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm more concerned about the evil radio waves which keep trespassing on my property, permeating my entire home and being. My tin foil hat just isn't enough!!!

      I'm thinking I need to construct a large set of lead shielded antennas and satellite dishes so as to keep them from getting inside my home... and... while I've got em captured, might as well do something with em, same I have no clue what to do.

    3. Re:Stop stealing the photons I'm emitting by WormholeFiend · · Score: 4, Funny

      I encrypt the photons that I reflect with Hawaiian Flower print shirts.

    4. Re:Stop stealing the photons I'm emitting by Omnifarious · · Score: 4, Informative

      Theat's not true. Though it is true that he isn't emitting photons in the visible spectrum. :-)

    5. Re:Stop stealing the photons I'm emitting by IvyMike · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Since when things flouresce, they emit photons, I was going to make a joke that I weara lot of DayGlo clothing with daylight fluorescent pigments. But then I ran across this fact on google:

      Clothing: Nearly all laundry detergents contain a fluorescent dye that emits strongly in the blue when exposed to sunlight. The blue light counteracts the yellow tinge of old or incompletely cleaned clothing and thus makes clothes appear cleaner than they really are. The dye is designed to fluoresce in daylight.

      You learn something new every day.
    6. Re:Stop stealing the photons I'm emitting by Mikkeles · · Score: 3, Informative
      'Nearly all laundry detergents contain a fluorescent dye that emits strongly in the blue when exposed to sunlight....'

      And that's why I buy undyed detergents for my hunting clothes, as the dye highlights you in the eyes of deer, moose, etc.

      (I know, totally OT)

      --
      Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
    7. Re:Stop stealing the photons I'm emitting by Spackler · · Score: 3, Funny

      Actually, that fluorecent dye in detergent is to make you show up better on the spy sattelites on a warm day. When tracking just heat, they can get confused from the heat coming off pavement, but painting you (actually, your clothes) in a dye is like sticking an animal tag on your ear. Clear as a bell. The only way to counteract it is to run around naked (unless you used soap in the shower which also contains the dye). Wrapping yourself in tinfoil is also effective.

      Spack

    8. Re:Stop stealing the photons I'm emitting by Craig+Davison · · Score: 2, Funny

      Clearly the solution is to never wash your clothes. The paranoid bums know what's really going on.

  5. The world gets together to talk by darth_MALL · · Score: 5, Insightful

    and look what they choose to do with it. *sigh*

    1. Re:The world gets together to talk by bruthasj · · Score: 3, Funny

      Wha .. Wha? My HDTV isn't letting anything through, what are we talking about? It says to click "Yes" and not worry about it ... is this okay?

  6. Relax, it's only a treaty. by DynaSoar · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The US is only the best at ignoring them if they're inconvenient. This would cause so many problems for US business that the government will ignore this even if WIPO were to descend from a cloud in a fiery chariot and writing the treaty into the side of a mountain with a flaming finger.

    --
    "I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
    1. Re:Relax, it's only a treaty. by Alsee · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You have it BACKWARDS. The US and corporations are pushing *for* this treaty. The purpose is to shut down the pesky public and pesky innovators with things like VCRs and the internet and PVRs and opensorce software that can allow a computer to be or do anything with 'content'.

      Corporations especially want to eliminate that pesky 'fair use' nonsense.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  7. lets see... by abscondment · · Score: 4, Informative

    participate in the manufacture, importation, sale, or any other act that makes available a device or system capable of decrypting or helping to decrypt an encrypted program-carrying signal

    This doesn't only rule out computers; say goodbye to paper and pencil, too.

    Depending on what sorts of "encryption" were used with a signal, all sorts of devices could potentially aid in that signal's decryption. I mean, it could be argued that whatever appliance was intended to receive that signal could potentially be modified to aid in decryption. Sounds a little self defeating--lets hope it actually is defeated.

    1. Re:lets see... by RickHunter · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That makes the frigging human brain illegal in countries that ratify this treaty. I can decrypt "program-carrying signals" encoded with Caesar ciphers in my head.

  8. The trouble with vague legislation by freejung · · Score: 5, Interesting
    from Article 16, Alternative V:

    2. In particular, effective legal remedies shall be provided against those who:
    ...
    (iii) participate in the manufacture, importation, sale, or any other act that makes available a device or system capable of decrypting or helping to decrypt an encrypted program-carrying signal.

    This is obviously insanely vague. Now, they might argue that obviously they didn't mean to outlaw PCs and televisions with this wording, and of course it wouldn't be interpreted that way. But that's not the point.

    The point is, such vague and overly inculsive laws set a dangerous precedent. Later on, when somebody wants to outlaw some new form of decryption technology, all they have to do is point to the language of this law and say, "see, this is exactly the sort of thing it's talking about." Never mind that this language is so broad it could be applied to almost anything with circuitry.

    The freedom you give up now, assuming the goodwill of the powers that be, is the freedom you won't have later when that goodwill runs out.

    1. Re:The trouble with vague legislation by pclminion · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Never mind that this language is so broad it could be applied to almost anything with circuitry.

      Just circuitry? This treaty refers to a "device or system." That's by no means limited to circuitry.

      The atmosphere is a system, a physical one, which provides sustenance to humans and allows them to remain alive so they can decrypt signals. Hence, this treaty outlaws the atmosphere.

      A human is a system, a biological one, which is capable of decrypting signals. Hence, this treaty outlaws humans.

      The universe is a system, the ultimate system, in which the pesky humans and their decrypting computers exist. Were it not for the universe, nobody would be able to break their precious signals. Hence, this treaty outlaws the universe.

      Jeez, if you're going to hold people to the letter of the law, you better make damn sure your law doesn't accidentally outlaw the universe.

    2. Re:The trouble with vague legislation by Pionar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The constitution is supposed to be vague - it deals with a lot of things! Statehood, congress, the whole framework of the federal government, etc. The key to the constitution is you can't make a law that goes against it without amending it (which is terribly hard to do).

      This is a specific treaty, that deals with a specific issue, and has no need to be so vague. The Kyoto treaty isn't vague, it's quite clear. So why should this treaty be allowed such leeway?

    3. Re:The trouble with vague legislation by ajs · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The freedom you give up now

      We're not giving up anything now. We gave up our freedoms when we decided that it was not treason of the highest order, and certainly worthy of kicking someone out of office next election, to make law in the US via treaty. The abysmal treaties that have constrained patents, trade, and any number of other activities and rights are not subject to any judicial review, and they are written, primarily, by members of the executive branch, thus curtailing the powers of the legislature.

      Treaties should be constrained to only adopt existing US laws in a global context. If the executive wants a treaty saying that US citizens will walk around naked, then they should have to pursue a law in the US first. This would slow the processes and make it much less convinient to make law via treaty.

    4. Re:The trouble with vague legislation by Suidae · · Score: 2, Funny

      (iii) participate in the manufacture, [..] that makes available a device or system capable of decrypting or helping to decrypt an encrypted program-carrying signal.

      Umm... Did they just propose outlawing sex? I mean, a human is about the best 'system capable of helping to decrypt an encrypted signal' I can think of.

    5. Re:The trouble with vague legislation by hchaos · · Score: 3, Insightful
      We're not giving up anything now. We gave up our freedoms when we decided that it was not treason of the highest order, and certainly worthy of kicking someone out of office next election, to make law in the US via treaty.
      Yes, we did give up our freedoms when we ratified the US Consitution. That document has given us nothing but trouble.
  9. Pathetic by b0lt · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This shows what happens when bureaucracy gets a hold of power. What's next? Banning oxygen, since its a flame hazard?

    --
    got sig?
    1. Re:Pathetic by rworne · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, Aliso Viejo here in California came really close to banning water not too long ago . So oxygen would not be too far of a leap.

      --
      I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
  10. Pen and paper is illegal! by www.sorehands.com · · Score: 3, Insightful
    "participate in the manufacture, importation, sale, or any other act that makes available a device or system capable of decrypting or helping to decrypt an encrypted program-carrying signal."

    This could outlaw calculators -- especially ones that can do hex -- pen, paper, crayons, blackboards, telephone.

    It can outlaw trucks, cars, and telephones since they can be used to make available ideas, calculations, and formulas, that can help decrypt signals.

  11. The Human Brain Is Illegal? by the_mad_poster · · Score: 3, Funny

    participate in the manufacture, importation, sale, or any other act that makes available a device or system capable of decrypting or helping to decrypt an encrypted program-carrying signal.

    Apparently procreation and thinking are not something WIPO is keen on, as the human brain is a "a system" of tissues "capable of decrypting or helping to decrypt an encrypted program-carrying signal".

    --
    Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
    1. Re:The Human Brain Is Illegal? by O_D_Evans · · Score: 2, Funny

      "...participate in the manufacture..."
      "...any other act that makes available..."

      By your argument, wouldn't that make sex illegal too?

      Damn.

  12. Hmmm.... by DecayCell · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Is getting my brain fried because of too much TV electromagnetic radiation considered signal theft?

  13. Uh, if you don't want your signal stolen.. by the_rajah · · Score: 4, Funny

    for Pete's sake just don't broadcast it!! How simple is that. Duh!!

    "Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain

    --


    "Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
  14. When computers are outlawed... by Rick+the+Red · · Score: 4, Interesting
    When computers are outlawed, only 97% of the population will care. Or something like that.

    Hell, I'll bet Time Warner is dancing for joy over this treaty, but wait until they come into CNN's headquarters and take away all the PCs and video monitors. And what will Disney say when ABC is shut down because nobody is allowed to watch it anymore?

    I'd love to see the FBI enforce this one! If you thought our government was in Wall Street's pocket now, well, wait until they try to take all computers away from the Fortune 500 :-)

    --
    If all this should have a reason, we would be the last to know.
  15. Need Open Hardware by Ugmo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Plans to build PC like computers from parts of other Consumer electronic devices are needed.

    If the generic PC is outlawed and Microsoft is able to push through DRM encumbered hardware as a new standard, it might be a good idea to be able to open up an old Tivo-like DRM laden device, a console like the X-box or a HDTV and use the parts to make a PC.

    I know that the Tivo and Xbox are really just computers today and they can be hacked, but in the future laws or manufacturers may make this more difficult. It would be great if we could build our own PC's from parts and circumvent stupid laws.

    1. Re:Need Open Hardware by sadler121 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Once this or a similar treaty/law goes into effect, I will be damn sure to keep even better care of my exsisting hardware, and I won't be upgrading until the piece of hardware breaks.

      That should be in 10-20 years. and if enough people do this as well, the HW manufactors will just go out of buisness because no one wants to buy there DRM'd CRAP.

      It's ether that or a civil war...

  16. You may only encrypt your datas!!!!1 by sockonafish · · Score: 3, Interesting


    from Article 16, Alternative V:

    2. In particular, effective legal remedies shall be provided against those who: ...
    (iii) participate in the manufacture, importation, sale, or any other act that makes available a device or system capable of decrypting or helping to decrypt an encrypted program-carrying signal.


    So while we may encrypt things, we will never under any circumstance be able to decrypt them. This would outlaw DVD players, too.

    The UN charter (and US Constitution) need amendments outlawing illogical legislation.

  17. What moron drafted this? by pclminion · · Score: 4, Interesting
    participate in the manufacture, importation, sale, or any other act that makes available a device or system capable of decrypting or helping to decrypt an encrypted program-carrying signal

    That doesn't just outlaw PCs, it outlaws everything. It outlaws the Earth, because on the Earth is a living system of organisms, one of which (homo sapiens) is capable of decrypting a program-carrying signal. Without the support system of the Earth, humans could not exist, therefore the Earth is "helping to decrypt."

    I have to wonder how people, who are obviously incapable of drafting a treaty without accidentally outlawing all of existence, have ever reached such positions of legal authority...

    1. Re:What moron drafted this? by Lodragandraoidh · · Score: 4, Interesting

      WIPO is almost fully (91% I believe) funded by IP holding multinational corporations. Their charter states that their purpose is to bring IP protection standardization to the world - which translates to mean standardizing IP protections to best benefit thier primary funders.

      Developing nations and public advocacy groups are being crushed as the IP juggernaut rolls on.

      --

      Lodragan Draoidh
      The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
  18. So... by Smallest · · Score: 2, Informative

    did you lift this write-up from BoingBoing, or vice-versa ?

    --
    I have discovered a truly remarkable proof which this margin is too small to contain.
    1. Re:So... by Scott+Laird · · Score: 2, Informative

      Neither--the same author wrote both the Slashdot writeup and the one on BoingBoing.

  19. Re:This is actually an issue by eaolson · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I once had a store owner get all over my case for taking photos inside her store. Apparently, those were proprietary photons I was recording. What I wonder is, would she have had a leg to stand on if I had taken the same photos from right outside her doorway? At what point do you own a photon, and at what point do you not?

    I'm not sure either, and it's an interesting question. Now replace "inside her store" with "through her bedroom window using a zoom lens" and you might come away with a different opinion on who should be allowed to take photos where.

    (Admittedly, store = semi-public place whereas bedroom = private, so it's not a perfect analogy.)

  20. workers unite by nut · · Score: 3, Funny

    Rich capitalist pigs are trying to steal the internet off the people who make it actually work for them.

    I say turn the internet off for a couple of days, see how they like that ;)

    --
    Never trust a man in a blue trench coat, Never drive a car when you're dead
  21. NPA by freejung · · Score: 4, Funny
    wouldn't that make sex illegal too?

    They can have my penis when they pry it from my cold dead fingers!

  22. Does anyone else notice... by grunt107 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    that a new type of governance is being successfully pushed - 'capitacracy'. This is where only the largest businesses and wealthiest people have any say and all forms of communication/expression and liberty not controlled by said entities will be outlawed? Regardless of its intent, every lawyer knows this vagueness can be exploited to further all kinds of oppressive litigation and control. It's time to start skimming the gene pool

    1. Re:Does anyone else notice... by isaac · · Score: 2, Informative
      'capitacracy'

      I believe the word you're looking for is plutocracy.

      Yes, someone else had this idea a long time ago.

      -Isaac

      --
      I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
  23. Re:This is actually an issue by man_ls · · Score: 3, Informative

    As long as you're not tresspassing while taking those photos, you're 100% in the legal right if you take pics of her naked in the bedroom with a zoom lense.

  24. Turn OFF that tube !! by mritunjai · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Once it was said that couch potatoes hurt themselves watching TV all day.

    No NOT! They hurt many more. Millions of couch potatoes made dancers and singers and their supporting corporations SO strong that they're now trying to control information and educational channels because it *may* be used to *steal* *BROADCAST* signals !!!

    What next ? Are they going to ban copper wires cuz they can be used to hook onto power grid and *possibly* steal electric power ???

    Throw that idiot box out of your house if you're really serious about protesting against this insanity!!

    --
    - mritunjai
  25. No more sex! by cepler · · Score: 2, Insightful

    OMG, we can no longer reproduce if this goes thru since we can't participate in manufacturing humans 'cause they are capable of decrypting and helping to decrypt encrypted program-carrying signals! AIEEEE!

  26. WIPO for the uninformed:-) by INeededALogin · · Score: 2, Informative

    from their homepage:

    The World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) is an international organization dedicated to promoting the use and protection of works of the human spirit. These works -- intellectual property -- are expanding the bounds of science and technology and enriching the world of the arts. Through its work, WIPO plays an important role in enhancing the quality and enjoyment of life, as well as creating real wealth for nations.

    With headquarters in Geneva, Switzerland, WIPO is one of the 16 specialized agencies of the United Nations system of organizations. It administers 23 international treaties dealing with different aspects of intellectual property protection. The Organization counts 180 nations as member states.

    see here for more details

  27. Re:My thoughts... by slusich · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Keep in mind that the goverment would agree to it, and enforce it, for everyone but them. The goverment itself would of course pay no attention to it whatsoever. This is geared towards helping corperations bring suit against people who they feel are either stealing or helping people steal their product. While I agree that the terms are overly broad, the reality is they're not talking about outlawing PC's, they're talking about outlawing things like cards for PC's that allow them to be used for theft of sat or cable signal. My personal view on this is that it is the responsiblity of the broadcasters to insure that their signals are secure enough that they can't be broken with little or no effort. The corperations don't feel that way.

  28. WIPO by Seth+Cohn · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Sadly, government corrupts, and world government corrupts absolutely.

    For those of us in the United States, I strongly urge you to look at things like the Free State Project. (http://www.freestateproject.org)This isn't a bunch of wackos looking to move to Montana for another Waco holdout, it's made of people like you who will stand up, be active, and work within New Hampshire (already the best representative State with only 3000 people per Rep, as well as strongly libertarian minded) to reduce the size of government. It's our only hope, because the more they pass nonsense like this, the more you and your neighbors had better stand together...

    If p2p becomes a crime, you want your neighbors to defend you when the thoughtcrime police show up. And don't kid yourselves, we are rapidly coming to that.... The day when you click on the wrong download button and the police knock on your door is already here.
    Don't own a computer? Get sued by the RIAA
    12 years old? Get sued by the RIAA
    66 Years old and never used a computer? Yes, Get sued by the RIAA
    Now just imagine the force of the WIPO, and 'the law' bolstering this nonsense...

    --
    Help achieve Liberty in your lifetime - join the Free State Project - http://www.freestateproject.org
    1. Re:WIPO by Baki · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No the latest pop hit indeed isn't that important, but the principle is. Historically until well into the 20th century "art" (whatever that may be nowadays) never was protected; every composer could "borrow" parts from others, which in fact is how most synphonies and other great works came to be. With "intellectual property", instead of extra motivation, no symphonies of beethoven, brahms and dvorak would have existed.

      All famous painters copied one another, refining styles and experimenting with new variations. Yes, most painter or other artists were not rich (most were dead poor) but they did not do it for the money but for the love for art.

      Compare that with todays works of "art" and ask yourself what this "motivation" by protection has brought to mankind: not much but a pile of trash.

      Btw I'm a capitalist as well. I just believe that ideas, whether great science or art, or plain lowly amusement, must be free in every meaning of the word free. This is not an anti-capitalist thought at all. Capitalism does not equate to greed and destructive commercialisation. Only enemies of capitalism would hold such views.

  29. Withdraw from the UN by man_ls · · Score: 2, Informative

    The United States is powerful enough to be able to cut its own deals with the rest of the world.

    Like it or not, that's the truth.

    Thus, we don't need the UN. We don't need the UN dictating what we can and cannot do to us.

    Additionally, wouldn't a treaty such as this one violate some parts of the Constitution?

    My very limited IANAL legal knowledge, the Constitution is the highest, followed by Treaty, then Statute. Thus, if a treaty like this would break the constitutionally protected freedoms of speech and expression and all that, it's invalid.

    Not that anyone would actually dare challenge the WIPO but that's just another point to think about.

    1. Re:Withdraw from the UN by argent · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Given the stupid software patent trend started in the US, they're more likely to end up embracing and extending this precedent than withdrawing from it.

  30. All those futuristic films were right by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We ARE all being ruled by corperations!

    Well at least by proxy. Coperate reps bribe/dine/blackmail/makeloveto ministers/senators/congressmen/presidents/MEPs/Med iaBosses
    and the rest of us end up losing what little rights we have.

    WIPO is a forum set up by the powerful for the powerful. An unelected body whose job it is to increase the powers of producers and reduce the rights of consumers.

    I'm sick of this rubbish. Big business getting laws passed so that if we want to even glance at a film we must pay money each and every time. what's next? CD's with ongoing fees? DVD's that self destruct? MP3s with encryption?

    Oh wait......

    --
    May the Maths Be with you!
  31. How does this break copyleft? by ComputerInsultant · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Nothing on the GNU site describes how this 'breaks copyleft'. So does it break copyleft? Or is it simply a bad idea?

    --
    engineers are all basically high-functioning autistics who have no idea how normal people do stuff
  32. pc illegal by CoolMoDee · · Score: 2, Funny

    phheww, i was worried I wouldn't be able to use my mac there for a second...
    its a joke, laugh.

    --
    Jisho - A Japanese English German Russian French Dictionary for the rest of us.
  33. Not Your Friend! by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Why do people -- at least those in relatively free countries -- keep thinking the United Nations is your friend? It's not!

    And it hasn't been every since it quit trying to regulate how countries behaved, and started trying to regulate how the people within those countries behave!

    There are a lot of rather repressed countries seeking to use this UN to regulate the entire world down to the lowest common denominator. So this should be no surprise to anyone.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  34. Do these guys have any idea what they are saying? by mark-t · · Score: 3, Funny
    This proposal would outlaw the creation of any "system capable of decrypting or helping to decrypt an encrypted program-carrying signal".

    However, whether these people realize it or not, it is humanly possible to decrypt or to help decrypt a program carrying signal by hand, starting with nothing more than the raw unencrypted data! Technically, that would make the act of human reproduction illegal, since the child could very conceivably grow up into a person with enough mental accuity to take on a task like that. Yes, it would take time, but there's no mention of how long is has to take in order for the system to be outlawed. This proposal is tantamount to governing what people are legally even allowed to _think_ about and absolutely, categorically, _MUST_ be stopped.

  35. Trying to find a positive spin on this... by mark-t · · Score: 3, Funny

    On the plus side, with no more home computers, nobody will be using Windows anymore either.

  36. Why subscribe? by bonch · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I seem to recall subscribers were supposed to be a part of the editorial process, able to e-mail the editors with corrections and dupe alerts.

    Has this even happened? The editors here are notorious for operating in a black box, rarely answering e-mails at all.

    1. Re:Why subscribe? by LostCluster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As a subscriber, I've seen red-barred stories have clear mistakes in them, that end up getting repaired before the story goes live and becomes visible to normal users. I've also seen some outright bad stories go up for subscribers and then get pulled from the queue never to be seen again.

      Overall, I'd say that they're at least looking at the DaddyPants e-mail account... but a complaint should have a hyperlink citation backing up what you claim if you want any hope of them taking action.

  37. Re:My thoughts... by katsushiro · · Score: 4, Informative

    Actually, there's a funny story about that... heh.. you see, I've actually been reading the notes on the treaty for the past couple of days, and a whole bunch of nations, notably Brazil and several others, are quite opposed to this treaty, out and out stating that it's a danger to creativity, the free flow of information, etc. etc. etc., and they repeatedly keep asking for this treaty, or at least several particularly nasty parts of it, to be removed. Only a few nations seem to be eager to see this mess go through, and chief among them is the US: the US delegates keep harping on about how industry needs the protection that this treaty will give it, and how the other nations just don't *understand* the real meaning of the many nasty clauses in the treaty. So, basically, it's the US that is doing most of the pushing to get this treaty passed as is, with all the nastyness. Keep in mind that most of the stuff on this treaty wouldn't affect the government itself. It wouldn't be illegal for the NSA to use encryption. It *would* be illegal for normal citizens to use it, or attempt to crack or understand it. The US government, and a large chunk of big business, would love nothing better than to see this treaty go through, since all of it benefits them, and none of it benefits the average joe.

    --
    "Two things are infinite: the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the first one." - Albert Einstein
  38. Signal theft???? by LWATCDR · · Score: 2, Funny

    If you do not want me listen to your signal then keep your photons off my property! What next? Will I get arrested because the people next door play there stereo too loud and I can hear music I did not pay for.
    BTW this law would also make paper and pens illegal. As well as the human brain so I guess sex is also illegal.

    "participate in the manufacture, importation, sale, or any other act that makes available a device or system capable of decrypting or helping to decrypt an encrypted program-carrying signal."

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  39. Canada's comments disregarded by kwandar · · Score: 4, Informative

    Apparently most/all of Canada's comments were completely disregarded.

    I'm left to wonder if our representation is that bad (probably) or if Canada is just expected to go along with the status quo, as put forth by the US (probably).

    Personally - while radical and unlikely - I'd just as soon see Canada completely withdraw from this organisation.

    1. Re:Canada's comments disregarded by Russell+McOrmond · · Score: 2, Informative

      The Canadian Government is about to be changed. This could me a change in trade negotiators, but probably not. They do get direction from parliament.

      At the World Summit on the Information Society I read a few times that the Canadian government delegation was often in stealth-support of the extreme positions put forward by the USA. The USA positions included things like opposing inclusion of FLOSS, claiming it isn't "technological neutral" even though FLOSS is about methodology/policy and not technology.

      Canadians should consider this when they vote later this month - what treaties will we be negotiating, signing and ratifying in the near future depends on how Canadians vote on June 28.

      If you want to coordinate a response with fellow Internet/FLOSS/Creative Commons aware Canadians, consider the Digital Copyright Canada forum.

  40. Brush up on those mad hardware hacking skills... by Lodragandraoidh · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If computers are outlawed, or probably more reasonable - computers without DRM (or any other device you can think of), what can we do to counter it?

    How much would it cost to build a small microchip cleanroom in my garage (for my own use, of course)?

    --

    Lodragan Draoidh
    The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
  41. Re:I wasn't really using my PC, anyway... by mrogers · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Of course computers won't be made illegal, but general-purpose computers might. They'll point out that terrorists, the mafia, child pornographers, virus writers, pirates and hackers sometimes use encryption, so computers capable of encryption should be licensed. Banks will buy licenses, but you won't be able to show a legitimate need. Oh you'll still be able to buy a little TV-with-a-keyboard web appliance that can set up an HTTPS connection after checking that the server has a government certificate -- e-commerce is why the internet was invented, after all. And of course the appliance will be sealed and there will be draconian laws to stop you even talking about prising it open and trying to make it useful.

  42. That's EXACTLY the point. by Chris+Burke · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Look... whatever... nobody is going to ban PCs or pen & paper or your brain or math or your TV set.

    Right. And if that's all it takes to make you happy...

    Though we already know that the general-purpose PC is directly in the sights of these companies for termination. But as long as your rented locked-down media-center pay-per-view system came from Dell and it has a Pentium in it, it's still a PC, right?

    These people have their own agenda, however they aren't stupid by any stretch (which they would have to be if these interpreted outcomes have any chance of happening; think about it, don't just react). Calm down, go back to what you were doing and forget about this...

    Yes, think about it. The point is not that this will result in the outlawing of PCs or paper, but the fact that it could. When they could apply the law to anything that means they will apply it to everything they want to. Someday, that just might include something you don't want them to. But you missed your chance, because you believed it couldn't happen.

    This is exactly the same technique behind the passage of the PATRIOT act. "Oh, but it will only be used against terrorists!" they said, even though nothing in the act itself ensured that this was the case -- it could be applied to practically anything, but just calm down about it because that won't happen, okay? Then a couple years later, morons (particularly Democrats) in Congress are shocked and dismayed that *gasp* the PATRIOT act powers were used in many (mostly) non-terrorism investigations! "I never would have voted for it if I'd known that was going to happen!" they said. Shite. Idiots.

    And what will be your excuse when you still have your "PC", but you can't install any software that wasn't approved by the Powers That Be because that software might not respect the new rights they just gave themselves? When that and your precious pen & paper is all you have? Well?

    --

    The enemies of Democracy are
  43. How did Argentina get in the middle of this???? by TheNarrator · · Score: 4, Insightful
    From the link " Making the PC Illegal".
    Note this this is just an "alternative" under consideration. It was proposed by Argentina, and Switzerland proposed language that "roughly corresponds" to it. I don't know whether the U.S. has taken a position on this, but I assume the U.S. is still in favor of computers being legal.

    Argentina doesn't really have a significant media industry with the exception of exporting some telenovelas. How did they get into the middle of setting intellectual property and technology standards? Maybe it's the less than democratic governments in the developing world that are equal members of WIPO that put all this weird stuff in here. I'm talking about the same countries who put Cuba, Zimbabwe and Sudan on the U.N human rights commission.

  44. Re:whatever by julesh · · Score: 3, Interesting

    These people have their own agenda, however they aren't stupid by any stretch (which they would have to be if these interpreted outcomes have any chance of happening; think about it, don't just react).

    Have you ever tried drafting a treaty or legislation? It's quite tricky to get the details right. When you think you've got one aspect nailed down, you've totally missed something else.

    I don't believe the original draftors of the DMCA _intended_ it to be used to silence people involved in legitimate cryptographic research, but because they failed to ensure it couldn't be, it has been.

    I'm sure these people don't intend to outlaw PCs, and I'm equally certain that this particularly outrageous interpretation will be stamped on some time between now and when this treaty actually enters force... but that's not to say that software that performs decryption won't become illegal. A badly drafted law can be used by people as a sneaky attack on something that wasn't originally foreseen by its authors. In this case, I can see that:

    1. DeCSS might be covered if the phrasing remains particularly bad. I'm pretty sure it is at the moment. Note that there are no 'significant alternative use' provisions or similar, as exist in the DMCA and EUCD.

    2. Video signal synchronizers, used to restore the sync signal between a playback and a recording device, will almost certainly be covered unless a 'significant alternative use' clause is added. This hardware is essential for anyone trying to perform high quality duplication of video signals without spending huge amounts of money on it. Yes there are legitimate reasons you might want to duplicate video tapes.

    3. This will probably render it illegal to sell the designs for those cable tv descrambling boxes. I don't know about you, but I strongly believe that no transfer of _information_ should be prohibited, except possibly where that information has come into your hands due to a priveleged position (this would cover the protection of national secrets in a manner similar to the UK official secrets act, among other things). Note that by information I'm
    talking about distilled facts; this isn't an anti-copyright stance.

    4. If future PCs are supplied with some kind of DRM monitor that prevents you from tampering with managed data, this treaty might prevent the sale of kits to remove it, or even the transfer of information on how to remove it.

  45. You should also be aware by GMFTatsujin · · Score: 3, Interesting

    By surfing Slashdot, you may be violating your listener's license agreement.

    Give your ears a taste of Independant Librarian Dynamic Sean Kennedy the Sixth for a truly horrific scenario based on this kind of shinanegans. Then give him a little donation because, at the moment, his stories are still legal to freely record, broadcast, and disseminate.

  46. Re:Free State Project by Seth+Cohn · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The goal is to find 20,000 people.
    We're at nearly 6,000 people now.
    The only way to we'll go from 6K to 20K in the next year or so is to tell more people about it, aka publicity, aka 'hawking it'.

    If you have a better way to find 14K libertarian minded people, please speak up. In my mind, the slashdot crowd tends to be more libertarian, technology freedom/rights aware, and able-to-move due to portable job skills (aka the Internet crowd telecommuting). In other words, a good key demographic for people able to be part of this.

    If you've heard about the FSP, you're already in the minority... we come across lots of interested people every day who still haven't heard of it yet.

    --
    Help achieve Liberty in your lifetime - join the Free State Project - http://www.freestateproject.org
  47. Welcome to United Coporations (was States) of Amer by monosqldan · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Welcome to the United Corporations (was States) of America.

    Preamble: We the Corporations (used to be People) of America, in order to form a better union of greedy businesses to make more money, screw over the average joe, pollute the environment, steal more rights away from individuals, and undo those pesky Bill of Rights.

    Permission is granted to reuse this as you see fit. This is public domain.

  48. that's no critique. by metalhed77 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You have not demonstrated that the UN is sufficiently worse than all the governments underneath it. The UN is no worse than any nation-state, in fact it occasionally goes to those areas of the world the US is so reticent to participate in like africa and provides minimal support. Minimal it may be but it's better than what the US ever does.

    You wanna talk UN don't restrict your debate to Iraq or whatever, talk about the whole UN and talk about what the world would look like without the UN and why it would be better.

    Anything less is simple finger pointing.

    Your arguments are shallow, and a wholesale indictment of the UN would need to be hundreds of pages of foot-noted text. Don't insult my intelligence with this cheap wankery. Since I'm not the one making the ridiculously shallow claim the burden of proof doesn't rest on me.

    --
    Photos.
  49. Optical Brighteners by MacFury · · Score: 2, Informative
    Clothing: Nearly all laundry detergents contain a fluorescent dye that emits strongly in the blue when exposed to sunlight. The blue light counteracts the yellow tinge of old or incompletely cleaned clothing and thus makes clothes appear cleaner than they really are. The dye is designed to fluoresce in daylight.

    The industry calls them optical brighteners. It's what they put in color safe bleach. Color safe bleach is really a misnomer, since it's not actually bleach, nor does it truly get the clothes any cleaner...it just gives the illusion of cleaner colors.

  50. Thanks, Henry David Thoreau! by Rimbo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "When laws stop making any kind of sense or justice, I stop obeying them."

    Or as Thoreau stated in "Civil Disobedience," when a law is unjust, it is the duty of the just man to break that law.

    1. Re:Thanks, Henry David Thoreau! by Hatta · · Score: 4, Interesting
      The proper quote is:
      "Under a government who imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is prison."
      I strongly encourage everyone to read this essay. It is, IMNSHO, the most important statement on the relationship between man and the state ever written. Here are more gems:
      This government never of itself furthured any enterprise but with the alacrity with which it got out of its way. It does not keep the country free. It does not settle the west. It does not educate. The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and would have done if the government had not sometimes gotten in its way. For government is an expediant, by which men would fain succeed in letting one another alone; and as has been said, when it is most expediant, the governed are most left alone by it"

      Must the citizen ever for a moment, or in the least degree, resign his conscience to the legislator? Why has every man a conscience then?

      The mass of men serve the state thus, not as men mainly, but as machines, with their bodies. They are the standing army, and the militia, jailers, constables, posse comitatus, etc. In most cases there is no free exercise whatever of the judgement or of the moral sense; but they put themselves on a level with wood and earth and stones; and wooden men can perhaps be manufactured that will serve the purpose as well. Such command no more respect than men of straw or a lump of dirt. They have the same sort of worth only as horses and dogs.

      This one is particularly relevant today:
      I hear of a convention to be held at Baltimore, or elsewhere, for the selection of a candidate for the Presidency, made up chiefly of editors, and men who are politicans by profession; but I think, what is it to any independant, intelligent, and respectable man what decision they may come to? Shall we not have the advantage of this wisdom and honesty nevertheless?

      I've gotten carried away here, there's just too much, so I'll end with a bit from the last paragraph:
      The progress from an absolute to a limited monarcy, from a limited monarcy to a democracy, is a progress toward a true respect for the individual... Is a democracy, such as we know it, the last improvement possible in government? Is it not possible to take a step further towards recognizing and organizing the rights of man? There will never be a really free and enlightened State, until the State comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independant power, from which its own power and authority are derived, and treats him accordingly.
      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    2. Re:Thanks, Henry David Thoreau! by OldManAndTheC++ · · Score: 2, Informative

      Wish I had points, I'd mod you up.

      "When laws stop making any kind of sense or justice, I stop obeying them."

      If I remember my Thoreau correctly, one must not merely disobey an unjust law, but must do so publicly, and must be willing to accept whatever punishment is required by the law. Thus simultaneously showing respect for the principle of law while protesting its injustice in a particular instance. I think this point is often overlooked by those claiming to practice "civil" disobedience.

      On the other hand, today's laws are so complex and numerous that we are all constantly breaking them in one way or another. :)

      --
      Soylent Green is peoplicious!
  51. As if.... by thygrrr · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...people on here were getting laid in the first place :)

    While we're at it: The entire WIPO needs to get laid and definitely needs to chill for a while - and then disband.

  52. Selective Enforcement: Repression on Demand by FreeUser · · Score: 2

    I'd love to see the FBI enforce this one! If you thought our government was in Wall Street's pocket now, well, wait until they try to take all computers away from the Fortune 500 :-)

    They aren't going to take a single PC away from any of the fortune 500 (and probably none of the fortune 1000).

    Like every other unjust, unconstitutional law on the books (e.g. the war on drugs, etc.), the laws will only be selectively enforced.

    Richard Stallman, Linus Torvalds, and a bunch of the rest of us will have our equipment seized without due process and with no possiblity of recovery (and perhaps be banned from ever writing software again) because our software empowers people, and that in the eyes of our hopelessly corrupt government of governments (the UN) and its hopelessly corrupt constituents (the governments of the world, most of whom routinely and ruthlessly repress their populations) that is a cardinal sin.

    They're just looking to put the mechanism in place to legitimize this process, and the media monopolies have given them just the political cover they need.

    I would not be surprised if, within ten years, there is not a single "free" person left on this earth, even by the loose definition for freedom we generally use today.

    The future is ugly, and it is bearing down hard on us all.

    --
    The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
  53. Who are we kidding by pherris · · Score: 4, Insightful
    We complained about:

    Digital Millennium Copyright Act

    USA PATRIOT Act and the proposed PATRIOT II Act

    CAPPS and CAPPS II

    Copyright Extentions

    Software Patents

    Evoting without a paper trail

    ECHELON

    Privacy concerns with RFIDs

    SLAPPs (Strategic Lawsuits Against Public Participation)

    EULAs

    Racial Profiling in Law Enforcement

    What was done? Nothing. Does anyone here really believe that Congress will "do the right thing" on this "broadcast bit" issue? The magic eight ball says "no fucking way". I personally don't see what the solution is. Bread, circus and prison baby, that's all that will be left.

    If I may quote Frank Zappa from "The Meek Shall Inherit Nothing":

    You say yer life's a bum deal
    'N yer up against the wall ...
    Well, people, you ain't even got no kinda
    Deal at all
    'Cause what they do
    In Washington
    They just takes care of NUMBER ONE
    An' NUMBER ONE ain't YOU
    You ain't even NUMBER TWO
    Think about this: in Iraq right now there are US Soldiers without bulletproof jackets and Humvees without any armour protection yet with have >$100M USD for a State Funeral of Former President Reagan?

    Forget it kids, game over.

    --
    "And a voice was screaming: 'Holy Jesus! What are these goddamn animals?'" - HST
  54. Re:Brush up on those mad hardware hacking skills.. by Teancum · · Score: 2, Interesting

    That is the big question. Is computing technology going to have special restrictions that is legally required?

    Do I need a lawyer while writing my software, and have that lawyer review my code to make sure that it doesn't violate patents, copyright, legal restrictions, etc.?

    I dread the day that lawyers outnumber software developers in the typical software company. Some companies (SCO, for instance, but also Dolby Laboratories and a few more successful companies) are already in this situation.

    I hope that Open Cores is successful. There already are some interesting developments there, and some of it is already working its way into industry, and this is the best hope that I know of that would allow you to build chips in your own garage. Forcing DRM into the realm of programmable logic chips would, IMHO, be going just a little too far and hamper the efforts of Electrical Engineers for even ordinary devices, but that would be an interesting topic by itself. For just a couple thousand dollars you can "fab" your own chips and at least in theory be able to build your own computer.

    One problem that I see with chip design on this level is that the skills needed to do this are not easy to acquire, and there is a very steep learning curve. Still, I think over time you could have some chip manufacturers who are very friendly to open spec computers rather than the current propritary mess in the computer industry at the moment.

    It would also be a sad day if amature computer designers and software developers would have the same problems that amature chemists currently face. Worse yet, amature nuclear engineers (think about that for a while).

  55. A Global Level by unixbugs · · Score: 2, Interesting

    All the bullshit laws the US passed in the last 5 years all rolled up into one. I say we pretend to play dead and follow along with all this crap until they think we are under complete control, which is the idea, and then we get UP.

    This kind of thing is so hard to fight. You and everyone you know can write 10 letters a day to Congress about the consequences of stupid laws like this and your requests WILL FALL ON DEAF EARS.

    WAKE UP FOLKS. You have no rights. Get over it or get with the program. This big agenda we see manifesting before us through corruption and perversion of legal systems and global governments, financial institutions, trade agreements, and all that happy shit is going to wear us down over time. We might as well end the suffering today by turning away and admitting defeat. Only then will thier true motives be apparent and only then can we fight. You cannot fight an enemy you cannot see, but you can fight them if you expose them for what they really are.

    DAMN im in a bad mood now. Thanks ass hats.

    Sincerely,

    Sam

    --
    You are about to give someone a piece of your mind, something which you can ill afford...
  56. Entrepreneurship by Brie+and+gherkins · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Is a continual process of creation and destruction driven by desire. The mercantile class is entirely dependent on the talent of those willing to engage in production/provision and the desire of buyers. There will either be a centralised highly regulated brontosaurus corporate dominance which disallows the endeavours of the small and protects long amassed interests, or there will be a distributed culture of provider/producer to customer. When you take my Universal Turing Machine, I will listen to the birds and watch trees grow instead. The law is doomed, because sophisticated society is unable to be covered by a single logical self consistent system.

    --
    If I promise to be a good boy can I have some better karma?
  57. The UN is accountable . . . by peachpuff · · Score: 3, Insightful

    . . . to its members. That's why you always hear about them voting on resolutions. It's screwed-up because a lot of its members are screwed-up.

    People who bash the UN don't seem to realize that there's no alternative. There's only one "everybody." I guess you could disband it, but sooner or later you'd need it again.

    You'd need an organization that represents the whole world (not just people who are or could be accused of being in your pocket) to endorse your plan for Iraq. You'd need the help of every nation that diseases spread to in order to fight the next SARS. You'd need a forum where nations can discuss and study things that affect everyone.

    You'd end up with essentially the same organization under a different name, accountable to the same screwed-up members. Because you need it.

    --
    -- . . ramblin' . . .
  58. Re:PCs to be Illegal? - Don't be daft! by vidarh · · Score: 2
    Yes, but the WIPO treaty in question contains language making a "device or system capable of decrypting or helping to decrypt an encrypted program-carrying signal". That clearly covers any general purpose computing device.

    Try RTFA sometime.

  59. Re:Yeah, I'd like to see them enforce that by vidarh · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Newsflash: Treaties are enforced by the signatories, not by the UN, by whatever means the signatories agree on. Normally that means making the treaty into law. In the US it's even simpler: Once a treaty is ratified, it IS law, thought often a separate law will be passed because the treaties rarely are specific enough to be practical to enforce as is.

  60. Re:PCs to be Illegal? - Don't be daft! by kogs · · Score: 2, Informative

    A PC per se does not help any more than the power station that supplies the power to run the PC or the antenna that receives the signal. There is nothing in the structure of the PC that is specific to the problem of decrypting broadcasts. Consequently, a PC is not "helpful" in the sense of being specifically adapted to the problem. However, a hooky smart card or a decryption program is specifically adapted to the problem and is therefore "helpful".

    Furthermore, since something needs to be added to a PC to get it to decrypt, the requirement of providing adequate legal protection (Art. 16(1)) can be met by preventing the supply of the something that needs to be added and implicitly puts bounds of the interpretation of Art. 16(2) which is primarily explanatory. Thus, Art. 16(2) defines the types of activity that where prevention should be employed insofar as is necessary for the prime objective of Art. 16(1) to be achieved.

    Finally, the text is just a draft and may well yet be amended to exclude explicitly devices have significant other uses or which are not primarily concerned with decryption. For example, the equivalent part (Art. 6) of the EU Copyright Directive includes the following subsection:

    2. Member States shall provide adequate legal protection against the manufacture, import, distribution, sale, rental, advertisement for sale or rental, or possession for commercial purposes of devices, products or components or the provision of services which:
    (a) are promoted, advertised or marketed for the purpose of circumvention of, or
    (b) have only a limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent, or
    (c) are primarily designed, produced, adapted or performed for the purpose of enabling or facilitating the circumvention of, any effective technological measures.

    You should read The Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties and in particular Arts. 31 and 32, especially the reference to the "object and purpose".