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Next Generation Stun Guns?
RoyalCheese writes "Well, I've just been reading an interesting little article on New Scientist's website about new crowd control weapons that electrocute/stun the targets. Seems we will soon be at risk of being stunned by ionised air generated by laptop sized lasers..." Reader Spetiam adds "News.com.au reports on a new weapon that will be able to zap you from afar, wires not included: 'We will be able to fire a stream of electricity like water out of a hose at one or many targets in a single sweep,' XADS [Xtreme Alternative Defense Systems] president Peter Bitar is quoted as saying." So, this company has a free-hosting website and and a free-email address for their "president", and the photo looks like cardboard tubes wrapped with green camouflage tape. Hmmmm.
Sharks with frickin' ... !
Man watching 6 MSCE's around a sun box, looks alot like the opening scene's of 2001:space odyssey...
That "weapon" looks straight out of Lost in Space. At least GI Joe in the picture seems to be pretty hardcore.
Cant they somehow strap this frickin laser beem to that frickin guys head?
Im the president of this frickin company for frickin sake.
I ask for a car and I get a computer. How's about that for being born under a bad
We will be able to fire a stream of electricity like water out of a hose at one or many targets in a single sweep
Batman: "Slake your thirst. You'll have worse than a parched sensation when we're through with you!"
We will be able to fire a stream of electricity like water out of a hose
The Ghostbusters were already doing that 20 years ago...
Yep, that's what I thought, another Homeland Security scam. Nothing to see here. Carry on.
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
Surely it would be possible to deflect the beam by carrying a charged sphere (or similar device) next to you to attract the charged/ionized particles...
Due to lack of disk space this user has been discontinued
Demonstrators at a protest in the United Kingdom were seen running around with lengths of copper wire trailing across the ground from their trouser-legs.
Ripping an new rectum in the fabric of spacetime.
Potato canon technology is now within reach of the US armed forces.
You want fries with THAT! and THAT! and THAT!
kulakovich
Maybe they're hoping that the target will just fall down, laughing at this thing.
Free website, anonymous email, cheap looking product. Am I the only one who sees this as just apipe dream by some 14 year old kid who got bored one day and fed it to a news source. I see no info that is credible at all.
Stay tuned for new sig...
We will be able to fire a stream of electricity like water out of a hose at one or many targets in a single sweep
Holt Crap! A weapon that will specifically target me in my tin foil hat!
...my tinfoil hat is more than adequate
Sigs for Nerds. Sigs that Matter.
But the (smaller) gun fires a single shot with a range is limited to 7m, which makes it nearly useless for crowd control, especially in hotspots such as Iraq...
Yeah, I seem to remember a lot of situations in Iraq where there was a crowd rioting, and everything would have been better if only we'd had a stun gun to take them all out at once...
Oh, no, actually that really only applies from Saddam Hussein's POV. Take out your crowd of demonstrators, you know? The insurgency in Iraq has been made up largely of well-timed attacks against weak points. They're looking for the spots where we're not vigilant. If we knew where they'd be next, we could use a stun gun I guess... But we don't.
This is a weapon designed to use in case of protests or riots. What kinds of governments need this sort of weapon? The nearest thing to a potential use I can think of in the US would be the Rodney King verdict riots, maybe -- and would you want that? Would you want the LAPD to have this weapon?
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
This is a massive growth area for all sorts of companies - usually ones who have been in the traditional defense markets for years until it became unpopular. Basically they carry on doing the same sort of thing as normal, just point to the non-lethal weapon line and say "Hey, at least these don't kill people"
Yeay, right. Cos' a jolt that'll put you down and twitching isn't going to stop a weak heart, or mess up a pacemaker.
It's like the pulsed "non-lethal" laser - the first shop vapourises a small section of the target's surface , and the next ignites the cloud of gases. On low power it knocks people down with mild burns(hope it didn't hit your face), on high it chews through brick walls.
Why are these so bad? Simple - by the simple act of labelling these as non-lethal the authorities greatly increase their ability to use them in all sorts of situations.
After all, a "democratic" government that authorised use of automatic weapons on a rioting crowd would have a few questions to answer - But hey, CS gas, Rubber bullets, tasers are all fine...
'Don't worry' said the trees when they saw the axe coming, 'The handle is one of us.'
You now have a non-lethal means of effectivly silencing protest!
No longer will your govenment have to put up with protestors! Unruly tree-hugging anti-capitalists will stumble away even more confused than when they came in! But why stop there!
The mass tesla cannon(tm) can halt all kinds of protest! Even mass protestations against the president can be easily quashed in mid whine! Police forces can quickly and efficiently deal with dissenters without sparking media attendtion!
Coupled with new digital censorship, your government will now have the power to make sure the "Right" kind of society exists in your country!
Order today!
May the Maths Be with you!
Of course, you still need to hike around a whopping big capacitor bank to have this work over any reasonable distance, and the repeat rate of fire would probably be lousy since the capacitors would have to be recharged....
First, we have hull plating, then teleportation, and now phasers. Once we get warp drive and replicators, we'll be ready to build starships.
Meanwhile, Xtreme Alternative Defense Systems (XADS), based in
Anderson, Indiana, will be one of the first companies to market
another type of wireless weapon. Instead of using fibres, the $9000
Close Quarters Shock Rifle projects an ionised gas, or plasma,
towards the target, producing a conducting channel. It will also
interfere with electronic ignition systems and stop vehicles.
"We will be able to fire a stream of electricity like water out of
a hose at one or many targets in a single sweep," claims XADS
president Peter Bitar.
Solid-state lasers
The gun has been designed for the US Marine Corps to use for crowd
control and security purposes and is due out in 2005. It is based
on early, unwieldy technology and has a range of only three metres,
but an operator can debilitate multiple targets by sweeping it
across them for "as long as there is an input power source," says
Bitar.
XADS is also planning a more advanced weapon which it hopes will
have a range of 100 metres or more. Instead of firing ionised gas,
it will probably use a powerful laser to ionise the air itself. The
idea has been around for decades, says LaVerne Schlie, a laser
expert at the US Air Force Research Lab in Kirtland, New Mexico.
It has only become practical with advances in high-power solid-state
lasers.
"Before, it took a laser about the size of two trucks," says Schlie.
"Now we can do it with something that fits on a tabletop."
The laser pulse must be very intense, but can be brief. So the
makers of the weapons plan to use a UV laser to fire a 5-joule pulse
lasting just 0.4 picoseconds - equating to a momentary power of
more than 10 million megawatts.
This intense pulse - which is said not to harm the eyes - ionises
the air, producing long, thread-like filaments of glowing plasma
that can be sustained by repeating the pulse every few milliseconds.
This plasma channel is then used to deliver a shock to the victims
similar to a Taser's 50,000-volt, 26-watt shock.
Pete Bitar, Vice President, has owned three companies, which he started, successfully operated, and sold or licensed off two of them for a profit. His education includes a Bachelor of Science in Business through the University Honors Program at Portland State University. Currently, Mr. Bitar is the President of Xtreme Alternative Defense Systems (XADS), a defense contractor, currently doing work with the Marine Corps on two SBIR Phase II research and development projects in the field of electronics and non-lethal weapon systems. Mr. Bitar brings defense contract acquisition and management experience to the team. He has a number of connections in a variety of fields, including aviation, aerospace, publishing, plastics, real estate, economic development, electronics, weapons research, and finance. Mr. Bitar has over 12 years of management experience, and has been successfully self-employed for more than half of his career. He also has over 18 years of pilot experience in a wide variety of aircraft.
Source: http://www.americanaviationcompany.com/staff.htm
Still sounds dubious to me. The picture of the stun gun is hilarious.
is haging out the back on that thing. Hope they come with a decently long extension lead.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
how these things are made. Smile!
E.
Never rub another man's rhubarb - The Joker
all you will have to worry about is the 50,000 volt shock it is going to hit you with... you may be toast but your eyes will be ok to survey your charred corpse
Remember your physics, voltage doesn't kill, amps do. Besides I believe that standard police issue tasers already administer 50,000 volts over the wires for a period of 5 seconds. The only deaths that arise from this are because the heart fails to restart, usually because the victim was on some kind of drug that inhibited the process. (think cocaine not tylenol).
The stupidity of your average American is just about the same as the average European, we simply show it off better.
While i'm inclined to agree with everyone else that this is a scam, I can't be too sure. So here's my assumptions about why it's fake (in addition to aforementioned free website/e-mail):
1) In the picture, the "soldier" doesn't look older than 14
2) The "soldier"'s shirt is not tucked in, nor are there any insignia on the shirt. A definite no-no.
3) The "soldier" is not wearing combat boots, nor are his pants tucked into the boots. Another no-no for real soldiers.
4) The "weapon" definately looks like a paper tube wrapped in gift wrap. Additionally, whatever that spring thing is at the end of the tube looks rusty. Call me a sticker but methinks that a weapon that shoots electricity would not have a rusty thing at the end.
Now here's why I think this could be real, just incredibly, incredibly stupid looking:
1) WHOIS indicates that the website has been registered since 1997. While not entirely unplausible, it seems unlikely that for just a joke someone would have registered the website that long ago, and would have reregistered it.
2) A Google search show some interesting things. Like the Pete Bitar who is the president/register/etc. is VP of American Aviation where his bio mentions this xtremeads thing. A little bizarre that a professional company would mention a fake project for the bios of their personnel.
3) The google search also found an article from the Inside Indiana Business that mentions the company and the president. Once again, it seems unlikely this guy could fool that many people. Although not entirely unplausible.
Anyways, those are my feelings, what do you all think?
Alright... if you dont know it: the city "Dorf" (as declared location of the company (read the article)) is not a real city ("Dorf" is german and means "village") - Although there is "Dorfen"
Spelling mistakes: My is english spoken not tongue of mother.
But if your in england you can be shot for carrying one.
Looks to me that they made the right choice for a server, after more than half and hour as a slashdot article, the server is still up and the large picture loads quickly. Granted, phrases like "We have succeeded with what could be termed a 2003 version of a short-range "Phaser on Stun"" and calling 20 feet "long range" doesn't inspire confidence, but it seem like a item which could be developed into something useful.
The grass is only greener, if you don't take care of your own lawn.
XADS is developing two longer-ranged systems, one of which will have a range of 20 feet and the other 50 feet. The 20-foot range system will be able to be towed by a car and set up for mobile operations.
If you think 20 feet is long range, then the first prototype is likely to be about 10 feet or so, or has extremely limited power/time. It likely doesn't carry its own power supply.
But that doesn't mean the technology isn't viable, it just means that it needs a ton of development work and will probably be very limited in its capabilities.
Rubber bullets, tear gas, fire hoses, etc will probably still have a broader applicability to most situations. Either that or the other alternative weapons such as the sonic or light weapons that cause dizziness and nausea.
Power is always an issue, though. Anything that doesn't focus its power on a spot the size of a dime at 300 feet is, due the the laws of physics, going to require immense amounts of power - not hand carryable. Possibly backpack for short sessions.
-Adam
Earlier, I called the number and when it was picked up, I chickened out and hung up. Well, Pete called back and did a great (hilarious) job of convincing me that this company is indeed real.
Nice talking to you, Pete.
Just so you know, I like to start signatures with the phrase, "Just so you know."
How much will they cost? How much will the civilian version cost? Or as I've read in many other articles about nifty new next-generation nonlethal gadgets, will it be marketed only to military and official law enforcement folks?
"I'm sorry, our nonlethal line is only available to law enforcement sir. Would you be interested in our line of top quality firearms?" Lethal force is only for civilians... what a time to be alive!
(5 mod points and I had to comment.)
Trying to use sarcasm in text-based forums does not work.
... or is that thing plugged into the wall?
Not particularly mobile.
Maybe GI Joe there can carry one of these in his backpack.
www.enterweb.pt
The vapourware company was presumably able to get its press release through the editorial board at New Scientist because they already knew that such products were out there, and the reporting is of the "look how soon they are getting it to market" variety.
My 2p's worth: Both proposals seem to have one flaw, at least for military application, for the same reason gas-based weapons have not been popular since the First World War: If the wind changes, the gas can blow back into your own trenches. I guess a quick-minded operator will switch off the current, but it seems risky.
Is your dog non-lethal? Do you have a website?
The enemies of Democracy are
Actually I would rather have this type of weapon at a check point than a gun that shoots bullets. I'd much rather shoot someone with a taser type of weapon and have them live than shoot them with an M16 and have them die. Having shot someone with an M16 let me tell you, its not a memory you like to have.
XTREME ADS (ALTERNATIVE DEFENSE SYSTEMS)
1508 E. 7th St.
Anderson, IN 46012
Phone: (765) 724-2226
PI: Mr. Pete Bitar
Topic#: NAVY 02-121
Awarded: 25NOV02
Title:Personnel Neuromuscular Disruptor Incapacitation System
Abstract:The STUNBEAM will effectively be proven to be the world's first available "wireless Taser", using electromagnetic energy to create ion "streams" which conduct a static charge which can disrupt neuromuscular control of any human or comparable animal target, at an output of between 25,000 and 100,000 volts with extremely low amperage. The weapon can also be used to disrupt electronic devices. Current technology already has proven results at very short, point-blank ranges of between five and ten feet. This Phase 1 work will deal with the ion streams themselves in the areas of columniation, tracking, limiting scattering effects, and static pulse conductivity in order to increase the range and controllability of a larger-scale device to between 50 and 300 feet. Since work has already been done in this area by Xtreme, one of the final results of the Option portion of this Phase 1 SBIR will be to build and deliver a working proof of concept device with a range of at least 10 feet, which will be useful in close-quarter scenarios as are common with the use of "Tasers". Xtreme has the technical ability, facility, and willingness to forge ahead in taking this technology to the incredible potential it has. The benefits of this system are unlimited. The unit will stun, not kill, its target, allowing for hostages to be rescued easily from almost any hostage situation, and criminals or enemy combatants to be captured, not killed, in a variety of military and law enforcement scenarios. This system will be easy to use and will be portable. Units can be sold commercially to police as well as to homeowners for effective, non-lethal self defense. Other applications of the massive ion generation of related devices can be used, among other things, in air purification and medical sterilization.
Hat strap too tight
'Laptop sized' power unit apparently stuck in belt/pocket
Incorrect firing stance for a large weapon (knees locked, stance too narrow)
Power lead dragging ground, should be coiled and tucked
Uniform sleeves too short
sleeves left loose, not buttoned down
Pants cut too long, and not bloused to boots as mentioned above
Incorrect t-shirt under a field jacket
Gun strap too tight, should be resting at the hip to allow a more relaxed grip and faster sweeping when firing... the way it's resting, he would have to turn his entire upper body to sweep, rather than moving the weapon around his hips
This is one that could go on all day... sheesh
You can have it fast, accurate, or pretty. Pick any 2.
... the "performance art" weapon spoof from two months ago? The long range "implant" gun supposedly shown at the beijing international arms show? It was a hoked up gun that allegedly shot microchip tags at long distance, and the dude actually managed to fake out a buncha military guys and a significant portion of ye old intarweb audience interested in such things.
With that said, they do have a variety of electronic weapons coming down the pike. You can already get sonic nausea weapons from shomer-tech I think it's called, a mercenary supply outlet, and the military has microwave weapons for "crowd control" that only heat up to what an normal household incadescent light bulb reaches, yet apparently they claim it won't hurt your eyes. Of course they are being cute for public consumption, it's only a matter of an amp to make it lethal. And they got frikkin lasers, some mobile, some static. And I KNOW I've seen these latter weapon discussed here on slasherdotts.
My bottom line is, whatever sort of weapons they admit to in public, they already have for deployment the next generation, and they got two more generations under development.
Just like their aircraft....
With the skin effect, a suit of armor (however light) would keep that charge off the body.
As for the wind moving the gas plasma into some sort of blue-on-blue bug zapper nightmare - I think we're talking channels of plasma so thin and tenuous that they don't exist much longer than the charge. Scale your time and you'll see what I mean.
kulakovich
Here's an interesting list of alternate forms of weaponry, some realized and others speculative.
Here
Also Tony Hawk, Dave Mirra, Bam Margera, the good people at Right Guard, and that hottie from that show about all the videogames.
"Hey baby, my cannon goes nine feet and can shut off a Volkswagen. Can I see your b00biez!?"
Sure, specifying legal limits to its use. Perhaps only by order of a judge.
Any non-lethal means given to the police to subdue a dangerous suspect or suspects should be available.
RIOTs are clearly one area where large scale non-lethal intrevention is warranted. It would not be a violation of Freedom of speech or similar non-sense arguments. If a large group is violently breaking the law then give the police a means to control them.
Whats worse, being stunned or gased? Hell I think stunning may be useful compared to water hoses and rubber bullets.
Its all about context.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Police forces can quickly and efficiently deal with dissenters without sparking media attendtion!
Ouch. With puns like this, governments don't need stun guns.
!#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
SBIR Phase I is for feasiblity study only. If the sponsoring government agency is suitably impressed with Phase I progress, they will receive additional funds in Phase II to actually develop the thing.
Phase I money is tight and specific. It does not cover marketing expenses. Phase III is commercial development.
The whole purpose of SBIR is to grow new companies and create jobs via small businesses that prove worthy via incremental progress - hence Phase I, II and III. SBIR does not exist to feed the Boeings and Martins. It exists to shoulder what would otherwise would be unacceptable levels of research and developmental risk for small business.
Actually, there is a vehicle mounted (or wall mounted) stun gun based off of a super soaker. A group of us got the idea when we were watching a bug zapper, holding a super soaker in one hand and a beer in the other thinking...
Anyway, my dad built the thing. It has been licensed for use in some non-US prisons for riot control.
http://www.jaycor.com/eme/watcan.htm
as far as small stun equipment, check out the same company's sticky shocker:
http://www.jaycor.com/eme/nlp.htm
Network Security: It always comes down to a big guy with a gun.
I think that's exactly his point
It is what I was getting at in an oblique way - they are developing weapons that can be used more casually so that the range of acceptable targets can be widened. Acceptable in this case will usually mean using it on someone who isn't threatening enough to endanger your life or health. And if you're not endangered then the reason for using your weapons is likely to be dubious, e.g. it's politically conveniant.
I too would probably rather be shot with a Taser than an M16. There may be valid uses for this technology (or at least as in comparison to uses of M16's), but there are a couple of points to bear in mind.
Firstly, to all those who are arguing how much better it is for Liberating Soldiers(tm), police and other assorted "good guys" to be armed with these rather than with firearms: This particular weapon currently has a range of about 20'/6m. There is no way that non-lethal weaponry like this is going to be issued for situations that are really dangerous. It will almost always be inferior to an enemy with lethal weaponry.
Which brings us to the second point, their target is therefore those that are not a threat. Note also, that this weapon's big selling point is that it can incapacitate large numbers of people. They may be a threat to economic or political interests, but they are not an enemy force. Weaponry is inappropriate.
Which brings us to the second point - why is it inappropriate? The legitimate use of the police force is to protect society from a criminal minority. The illegitimate use of a police force is for a minority to exert an excessive control over a majority. When this happens, you realize that the interests of the many are not being represented. Weaponry such as this is not attempt to rectify this situation, it is just giving [some] people a means to violate others with (far) fewer legal consequences.
Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
Well, I've just been reading an interesting little article on New Scientist's website about new crowd control weapons that electrocute/stun the targets.
If you electrocute them you can't stun them. They would be DEAD! Electrocute means to kill by electric shock. Not just get a little jolt. I see this error everywhere but I am surprised to see it on slashdot.
You realize that XADS is just 11 miles up the street from the Worlds Largest Ball of Paint?
Coincidence? I think not....
--Joe(PS. In case that Yahoo! Maps link doesn't work after a bit, note that XADS is in Anderson, IN, and WLBP is in Alexandria, IN.)
Program Intellivision!