Slashdot Mirror
Linux Journal On Linux's Adoption In U.S. Courts
Sam Hiser writes "Tom Adelstein writes in Linux Journal that, technically, one-third of the U.S. Government has moved to Linux: its Third Branch, the Judiciary. That's 30,000 users across 800 locations, comprising the nation's Federal court system. Given our information overload, it's easy to miss the most significant kernels of news."
Now let's see the US government follow in Germany's footsteps and directly sponsor the development of some critical piece of open-source software.
Now SCO owns the Judicial System..... what next, the Senate? ;)
You can find Linux as the court stenographer. But he's just not transcripting dictated litigation. He's learning. He's adapting. Soon Linux will become the bailiff, judge, jury, court illustrator, public defender, janitor, and CourTV anchor.
...that the wide use of Linux in the court system will make judges just a little more skeptical of the legal antics that Microsoft will undoubtedly be throwing against it in the years ahead.
I think it is especially significant that Linux has been adopted by the Judicial branch which is both the most savvy branch (people hate Congress and the White House, but few hate the SCOTUS) and, constitutionally, the one given the most power over the other two. I look forward to an activist judge mandating that all branches must use Linux to adopt and maintain transparent government.
They must not be too worried about the SCO case, eh?
Error 404 - Sig Not Found
The biggest terror state in the world, the USA, uses open source software.
The slashdot writeup makes it sound like 30,000 desktops. Rather, this is just the servers , not their desktop machines. No big deal here, as we already know that Linux is often a preferred back end. Call me when a US corporation or government agency moves 30,000 desktop users to Linux.
But my main point is that the slashdot writeup gives a false impression.
"If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid." - Epictetus
So our judicial system is moving from Solaris to Linux for their servers. This would have been a story of note had they put Linux on the desktop, but as it stands it hardly seems newsworthy. I mean, the multinational company I work for uses Linux on many of it's servers as well.
Adoption of Linux as a server is one thing; adoption of Linux on the desktop for 30K is quite another...
Maybe this is all part of a secret Finnish plan for world domination.
Best Windows Freeware
From the article:
;-)
Finally, consider that while an allegation of copyright infringement exists in the Federal Courts today, those same courts have decided to migrate to the alleged perpetrator in that case. It's something to consider. As Søren Kierkegaard once said, "Irony is a disciplinarian feared only by those who do not know it, but cherished by those who do."
Now, why on earth did I think about SCO reading this paragraph?
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
Because it is better? Because it is easier? Nay, because it is free. Why does everyone get so excited about this? It obviously is free, but will its users be as productive? What about support? I don't know, but only long-term studies can assess these.
A blog like any other.
30,000 Linux users? That's a LOT of greased Yoda dolls.
Anyway, probably is the beginning of a good move. If something could shift the balance towards open source, open formats (hope there the court resolutions are not published in msword format, or required that format to present documents) and really wider access to information ("no, you can't show THIS for contract/base software limitations").
One third?
One of three branches, yes.
Those 30,000 users are a drop in the bucket when compared to the total number of Federal employees and offices.
Will the slashdot readers be hypocrites or will they denounce FUD when it comes from Linux Journal? If Microsoft (or a journal that is focused on MS technology) had released a statement that "two-thirds of the US government runs MS software!" then there would be a huge shitstorm.
because paying ZERO dollars for software means my government isn't spending any money when it doesn't have to, which means that I can keep more of my money instead of it going to taxes, right?
right?
(crickets chirping....)
Reason, free market capitalism, and individualism
for SCO to start sueing the Courts for copyright infringement.
SCO: "You owe us money!"
AOUSC: "Prove it."
SCO: "Pay up or we'll sue!"
AOUSC: "Go on then."
SCO: "Oh b...."
"Given our information overload, it's easy to miss the most significant kernels of news."
You've just described Slashdot. It's a miracle that this bit of actually interesting news got thru. Most of Slashdot "content" is links to intellectually inbred programmer geeks' "news" about very small increments in development.
Uh, no.... technically one of the three branches of governement has moved to Linux. That is a far cry from the misleading assertion that "one-third" of the government has moved to linux.
Of course, I can't find this quote anywhere in the actual article, so it must have been the "analysis" of the submitter. Isn't this the type of misleading claim we continuously beride MS for?
"It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance." - Thomas Sowell
It doesn't much matter what branch of the govt uses it. At the end of the day the Gov't controls around 1/4 of the nation GDP. It controls how and where that's spent.
ALLOT of money flows out of the gov't and stirs allot of industry. Especially durring recessions, that have been a classic time for gov't over spending, since FDR, to restimulate the economy.
If you want that money, you will run what ever software the gov't tells you too. Ideologies aside you have a buisness to run. To be compatible with the gov't agencies is essentials.
And as that money spreads out, to subcontractors, and support industries the chain of compatibilty does as well.
I worked for 2 years for a company that did court document back up. They declared what their standards were. If we wanted the contract we did as we were told. And we chose the servers that meant the absolute least friction between start and support.
This is a much bigger deal than just public relations.
I would rather be ashes than dust!
From a purely impartial point of view, I certainly hope they dont let the use of underlying systems influence their decisions.
The judicirary is supposed to be impartial. I think for the most part it is. I would like it to stay like that no matter whatever happens.
Significant kernels of news! Ha ha! Get it?
I'm not so sure about that. The whole point of checks and balances is that each branch has some powers over the other two, but the other branches have powers over it as well.
Let's take the Supreme Court, for example. You're probably referring to the power of judicial review: the ability to declare laws unconstitutional (this was actually never codified in the Constitution; it's an important legal tradition and perhaps ought to be codfied, but it is not). This is, in fact, a very important power. However, it is not unbalanced:
1) Congress can override SCOTUS decisions. It takes a Constitutional amendment to do so (making the law constitutional by changing the Constitution to suit), and so it is very difficult, but it can be done.
2) The executive branch appoints justices. It's a little-known fact that even SCOTUS justices can be impeached and removed from office, even though they otherwise hold life terms; this has never been done, but it is possible.
3) The SCOTUS cannot act of its own volition; it must be called upon before it can do anything. The Executive and legislative branches have limited power, but they can use (most of) those powers at will; the SCOTUS is powerless unless actually called on by one of the other branches, or by the people.
This is the whole point of checks and balances: no one branch is self-policing, no one branch has unlimited power, and most of the actions of one branch can be undone (though not easily) by at least one of the other branches. The idea is to fight corruption on two fronts: one, by reducing its ability to form, and two, limiting its ability to do damage even when it does form. It's actually a pretty well-designed system, at least on that score.
...a balance of power between the three branches. In their original writings they had envisioned the judiciary running Linux, the legislature running NT, and the executive branch would run AmigaDOS. They just couldn't see far enough into the future to see Commodore completely ruin the Amiga's future.
I recall hearing once that the government was required to go with the lowest bidder in a new contract for many of it's purchases.
So.. isn't linux the lowest bidder?
So, is the government required to use it then?
Just curious if anybody knows about this..
I am glad the people deciding "right" from "wrong" figured out it would be "wrong" to run Microsoft Windows, and "right" to run Linux. That's cool.
stuff |
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
technically, one-third of the US Government ...
One-third, in the sense of three branches of American government:
* Executive
* Legislative
* Judicial
That's the theory, anyway.
In practice, real power has centralized in the Imperial Presidency -- as demonstrated by e.g. the Nixon years, the Bush/Reagan years, and the Cheney/Bush years.
-kgj
-kgj
news indeed.
Interesting how Slashdot picks up stories. There is either very elaborate process where they re-hash old stories in some kind of evil, traffic-generating agreement with other OSS and not OSS news sources or they just gave up on any process all together and it is just because.
OK, it might by indirect but it's *your* vote for Congress and The President that eventually get's you the Supreme Court's judges.
So next time get registered, go voting and stop moaning!
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
It's a widely recognized fact that most of the legal community (law firms, etc.) used to use WordPerfect. I'm unsure of the current situation given WP's decline in popularity due to domination by MSOffice.
However, if whoever owns WordPerfect now (Corel? Novell? Underpants Gnomes?) would re-issue it on Linux, and provide favorable licensing to allow it to run from the server to the desktop nicely, many legal offices and courts that currently use WordPerfect could move to Linux far easier than to MSOffice. It would be a change of OS and NOT a change of application.
Any lawyers out there that can comment on what software (especially larger) legal firms are using, and on what platforms, and for what reasons?
I would wager that another large tipping-point factor would be how Lexus and Nexus are used. If they operate via a web portal instead of a fat client (Lawyers? Paralegals? Anyone know?) then making sure they operate nicely on Linux is a key adoption factor. IBM, are you listening? Law firms might like a suite of applications specially tailored to their needs, and they don't mind paying for high functionality if it gets them ease of use (not being typically technofiles).
Also, billing software, the back-office function of legal offices, might benefit from some kind of scheduling application that keeps track of which case someone's researching and thus bills time to that case in an easy manner.
An ex-lawyer friend of mine (now works as NOC designer for Siemens) mentioned what a pain in the butt it was to itemize his timesheet (bill) for 10 minute segments of his time, espeically if he was making lots of calls. Make a better application and they will love you (again, IBM or Novell, you have options here... and not only for US court systems).
-- Kevin J. Rice
Unitarian Church: Freethinkers Congregate!
I recall hearing once that the government was required to go with the lowest bidder in a new contract for many of it's purchases.
Nope. Only in certain purchases/procurements there exists a mandate to use the lowest bidder of those bidders who meet the requirements of the RFP that went out for the bid. Even then the lowest bidder can be thrown out if it is discovered that any portion of their response proposal doesn't really accomplish what the govt organization wanted in the RFP in the manner that the govt org had desired. More often than not, the bid award goes to the vendor who most substantially meets the specs in the RFP and at a price within the expected budget for the project. Of course there's always a lot of politics involved in govt bid awards too... sometimes even as corrupt as in a bad Hollywood movie. That too happens much more often than the taxpaying public even suspects.
since they sue Microsoft constantly, they figure they shouldn't support them.
Makes it harder for Microsoft to buy them!!!
Someone migrating from Solaris->Linux isn't a big deal for stuff web, ftp or email services.
The real reason this is significant is because it means that US Government-approved application developers are making Linux software. An OS is something you run apps on; no apps, no need for the OS.
BakBone's backup system, ehh, it's a quasi-embedded product. I'm more impressed by Momentum, the financial management package in use by 94 districts. THAT is where Linux will start to make real inroads.
I've been on slashdot so long I'm starting to get out of touch with the cool stuff if it ain't on slashdot.
This is something for Chairman Bill to think about when Microsoft is brought before the court in their NEXT anti-trust trial!
My second reaction was "What if they don't like it?"
Then it dawned on me that individual judges neither have interest nor reasonable say in what their computers are running. So, for the most part, the point is moot.
However, there is one interesting twist. How much leniency is SCO allowed to give the federal government. You know the "if sco wins, it will cost the federal government $22M" point will come out in court. While that should not have a direct effect, no judge wants to have his name attached to that. Of course, SCO will cut a deal for government use of "their" code. But big a deal are they allowed to give the government before it's considered preferential treatment?
:wq
Mandating Linux would be a big mistake, mandating a specific technology is almost as bad as mandating a specific vendor.
However making requirements to the license is a completely different matter. There are many good reasons to require all government software to be released under a license that meet the open source specification, or something close. This would not prevent any vendor from submitting any product using any technology. It would prevent them from keeping that part of the working of the government secret from the public.
And since you asked, I would love if they all switched to FreeBSD.
Congress sets the jurisdiction of the Federal Courts.
now they wont be writing in microsoft word, on microsoft windows, at the next anti-trust trials against microsoft (are there any dates set at the moment?)
Look at police cars, for example. Here in the UK, the policy was that you could only specify British-made vehicles for government use, until about 10 years ago. Now they simply specify that a car for a particular role must meet certain specifications, among which are availability (can we just go and buy another from the dealer down the road, off-the-shelf, and fit it out ourselves?), spares, tools and manuals availability (can we fix it ourselves?), as well as the more obvious size, performance, economy and so on. The net result is that rather than buying masses of one make and model, you end up with Peugeot 406 turbodiesel estates for normal "patrol" cars (big, cheap to run, low maintenance), Mercedes 320CLKs for unmarked motorway patrol, and Volvo 850-T5s for high-speed pursuit. Quite funny really, there was vague discussions of what to use for the new generation of HSP cars, then a few years ago when the T5 came out and won the touring car championships by a comfortable margin. Suddenly there were two high-speed pursuit cars, out on the M8 *all the time* for "training" purposes. Uh-huuuh, not just taking it for a wee burn, are you?
tinfoil hat in a jiffy... so it's the ghost of Karl Marx who guides you now. (snicker snicker)
Where is this idiots medication?
"Technically", if our government only consisted of 90,000 people, we wouldn't be in most of the messes we're in.
So does this mean any and every judge would now have to recuse {her,him}self from any SCO vs Linux case due to conflict on interest?
Low bid does not (typically) come into play unless and until you have multiple vendors meeting the requirements, or reasonably close to the same set.
You can certainly write requirements that only one vendor can meet, or that precludes certain vendors. It happens all the time. MS obviously loves it when the reqs lock out competition; presumably they are less happy when tey get locked out.
The courts may have moved to using Linux as their server (GREAT!), but they are still using MS products for their workstations/desktops. A friend of mine says that "all of their important data is stored on the Linux servers," but they still have to use Windows to do anything (like write opinions or whatever).
Also, they are currently still using WordPerfect, though apparently there is a push to move to Word, and there also seems to be a push to migrate the servers back to MS.
They paid for support and services.
Get a Batclue....
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
NSA has supported and activly developed SE linux.
Jewish Propeganda, eh?
Do you know what i hate about all the 'lost protocalls of teh elders of zion' believers of teh world? It's not fucking true! Why does this upset me. Because i'm a jew and i hardly have a cent to my name. My whole life I figured 'well, enough people hate me, there must be a reason.' Nope. Bar mitzvah came, i was waiting for the secret handshake and a special knock on my door. Never came. Did i get any banks? No. Did I get to control the media? No. Fuck that. It turns out that, as a jew I'm like every other 2nd generation immigrant family on this contienent. Disproportionatly represented in statistics.
See, it turns out that most jews grandparents came to North America either during the pre-WWII pograms, or after world war 2. And, like most poor imigrant families, they settled for a low quality of living and forced their kids to work hard as hell at school. So the second generation where all docters and lawyers and such. You will (and are) seeing the same trend with asian and east indian immigrants. Families come here to find a better standard of living for their children. Former docters from the philipines give up their degrees to run convinience stores all with the hope that their children will amount to something in a free country. And so their kids work hard as hell in school because, if they don't, it's just one more reminder of how the family gave up everything for them. Of course, the second generation is giong to have to deal with even more bigotry then their parents, not because of language diffrences anymore, but this time because of economic prosperity. Just a word of caution
As for Israel politics, I'm not going to even get into it. It's hard to garnish an accurate deffenition of zionism from someone who believes teh jews control the media (and if there are jews responsible for reality tv, i am deeply ashamed and sorry). Zionism is simply the belief that there needs to be a sovreign jewish state. that's it. To call zionism racism is the same as calling the desire for a palastinian state racism. It's not. It's a neccessity brought about by circumstance.
But you know, it's pretty easy to throw around scare tactics by comparing people to Nazis. After all, nothign better then the effectivly proven Nazi 'theory of the big lie.' If people like Mr. Transhuman shout loud, often and incredibly absurd claims, people will simply believe them based on the fact that 'no one would make a statement so blatant if it was easily debunked.' Many people are trying to better the lives of the desplaced arabs in the occupied terroties, a.k.a. palastinian people (a term used to describe the native jews and arabs some 50 years ago, but employed today to instill a false history). Currently, Israel is withdrawing from the occupied territories, a move that can only be successful from both sides. If the transhumans of teh world would shut up for 5 minutes, just maybe it could be succesful and the palestinians will have some where to go next time people try and masacare them up in lebenon. Of course if you want to try instill hate and anger in everyone, go for it. But just realise, you are the reason there won't ever be peace, not the isrealies or palastinians who are trying to live normal, vendetta free, lives.
The Neo-Bohemian Techno-Socialist
Congress simply might suggest that government procurement in every nook and cranny simply stop. We should stop buying anything unless it truly provides the best value proposition.
-what a conecpt.
now if my company would just follow suit and stop laying people off.
Technically one third of Slashdot users hate OSS. It's the anti-free software branch.
Given our information overload, it's easy to miss the most significant kernels of news.
..." before I caught myself.
Aack!! Too many overlord jokes. I almost read the above line as "Given our information overlord,
Newsbreak:
SCO just recently sued the SCOTUS for the use of Linux and the unauthorized use of SCO's initials in the SCOTUS.
I'd be more worried for SCO (as if any of us could). Think about it. Now the judiciary has a finacial reason for the case to go IBM. Rule against SCO? yeah right! no judge is going to make a ruling against his own department.
I won't join Slashcott. OTOH, If Beta goes live, I just won't be back until it's fixed. Sorry Dice.
...the most significant "kernels" of news...
ha.
And this compliment comes from someone who doesn't care much for most of Isreal's actions over the last three years. Not to mention I have close friends who would not only agree with the main parts of Mr. Transhuman's post, but also the original post comparing Ashcroft to Himmler.
I don't even know why this post was modded as flamebait. It is a rant of course, but nothing deserving flamebait.
Psymunn, I doubt we would agree on many political topics, but it would be a great and worthy argument.
I have to stop wasting so much time reading Slashdot. It's interfering with my crystal meth addiction.
what about good old clinton years?
oh hes a democrat therefore he is a wonderful human being and can do no wrong
The White House was still an imperial power under Democrats -- under Carter and Johnson, even under Clinton for that matter. Hell, Johnson was a poster child for the Vietnam war.
As for Clinton, he was a loser -- an immoral dinkus, more interested in blowjobs than politics.
Democrats are not the Good Guys. Republicans are more successful Bad Guys, that's all.
As for the separation of powers: Congress has been in decline since the Gulf of Tonkin resolution, which demonstrated that the President can start wars without permission from Congress.
-kgj
-kgj
Folks, how about a reality check here?
Linux is adopted *only* for one particular set of machines, and I know of *no* court, anywhere in the nation, using Linux on the desktop.
Judges don't care, and don't know, what runs in the server room. I know, because I'm a US Courts sysadmin.
They don't make decisions based on what the trolls down in IT do. In fact, we are rarely asked for any information relevant to cases at hand. We just process the bits, and occasionally get to go home at the end of the day.
With the current US govenrment, there is no connection between government spending and taxes. The two are treated entirely seperately, with a huge deficit as a result.
However, less spending will mean one or two thing: Smaller taxes once you elect a responsible government who start paying of the dept, or a delay of the day where the us governemnt is unable to borrow enough money to pay of interest of its depth, resulting in a crash of both the us and global economics. Whatever happens first.