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Real adds GPL to Helix Player, RedHat/Novell Join In
kforeman writes "Today, Linux desktop industry leaders, Red Hat and Novell announced with Real a deep product development and distribution agreement that will enhance the rapidly maturing Linux desktop experience. Specifically, Red Hat and Novell will standardize on the 100% open source Helix Player as the leading multimedia framework for their Linux desktops, and will help qualify and distribute the superset RealPlayer 10 with their upcoming Linux desktop offerings. As part of the announcement, within 30 days, Real will add the GPL as a licensing option the underlying Helix Player. For all of you free software developers who have been waiting for a true GPLed industry standard AV framework, we look forward to working with you."
So, Helix can become the Media framework for the GNU system, like QuickTime is for Mac OS?
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Wow, that's really great ne[BUFFERING...]
Does that mean that someone can make a Windows version without all the advertising crap that comes with the standard version?
Je t'aime Stéphanie
I for one welcome our new media overlords but do you think this will have any impact on Xine, Mplayer and bros.
I thought the beef with Helix was non-free codecs. Has Real changed this, or are RH/Novell just going to distribute the shell of media player?
With it GPLed, we can get something to play RealMedia files on Windows that doesn't involve the neverending barrage of ads! I'm happy for you Linux desktop folks, but the implications for an alternate player for Windows is what does it for me. -PM
500GB of disk, 5TB of transfer, $5.95/mo
I've just switched my desktop OS from XP to Linux, when I was running XP I had no compunction to install Real as Media Player + assorted codecs played everything I wanted.
So am I correct in assuming Real realizes (*bum bum*) that they have lost the windows player war and are grasping at OSS to save them?
the real point of this is that you can get real(helix) WITHOUT those things after it's gpl'd...
hopefully windows versions as well.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Well, the code is open, so you it can be checked (and changed) to see what it's doing. That's just one of the many benefits of open source.
Actually, you are missing the point. Real is not putting their typical consumer "Real Player" on the desktop, they are integrating their Open-Source Helix platform int the base of the linux desktop. The difference is, Helix is going to be a rather nice framework for any and all media playback needs. As soon as Real GPL's it, it will be like opening up the source to windows for someone to improve upon it, or make it their own. (I know, bad analogy...but you get the point).
What does this mean for GStreamer, which, as I understand it, has similar goals and is being used by quite some OS software already.
Particularly in GNOME software... Which is the desktop used by RedHat and Ximian (Novell).
Not a nice move if you ask me, it has probably to do with the mp3 licence.
The man of knowledge must be able not only to love his enemies but also to hate his friends.
Gstreamer already provides GPL'd framework.
http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/
Someone might want to comment pros and cons
of Gstreamer and Helix.
I see this as a great thing simply because the code will be made available to people like the developers of mplayer, who can integrate it into a command-line, accessible, ad-free no-nonsense program that I can enjoy using.
It makes no sense to say "now we'll have a crappy player just like Windows has!"
With the code, anyone can pull out the important decoding bits and integrate them into a non-crappy program.
That is all well and good, but when are they going to allow non-windows Real Player 10 users to subscribe to services like (UK) Channel 4 broadband?
But do we really? The Debian folks have excluded key parts of mplayer from their distro (they include a crippled subset that is arguably useless) because of licensing concerns.
Now, this could just be a couple of people at the Debian project being anal-retentive; I don't pretend to fully understand the issues, and I don't know whether Debian's position makes sense or not. But at the least, there is some kind of question mark hanging over the mplayer copyrights and license.
Some of you seem to have missed this, they are only GPLing the Helix player. Realplayer10 is not being GPL'd, so they are not making any of their codecs available. It is therefore of very little extra value, as it is the codecs that we need to have. There are already a number of perfectly good free frameworks for multimedia. Nothing to see here folks, move on........
43 - For those who require slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything.
The latest version of Real Player for Windows is actually pretty nice. I installed it the other day, and they've really made progress on the whole adware /hidden opt-in fiasco. The player defaulted to the minimum no frills compact mode, and I've found real video's video codec to be very competitive with quicktime. I'm the one who made the buffering joke, but Real has been trying to clean up their act lately (link to free player on main page), and I support them for that.
You know, every time Real is mentioned on /. somebody will parrot this. It's such a cheap shot: you haven't said anything that hasn't been said a hundred times before, and in particular, it's hard to imagine how a GPL'd player could possibly install anything that you didn't want it to.
Nor can I imagine Red Hat suddenly changing into the kind of company that distributes malware.
Perhaps you could post a comment that actually relates to the story at hand, rather than recycling the same old junk from a hundred other comments.
(PS: ok, I can imagine how a GPL'd product could install bad stuff, but I can't imagine that it (the malware) would be around long enough to make it worth anybody's time to put in there)
(I'm also aware of Ken Thompsons ACM Award speech, which doesn't apply in the slightest)
What I don't understand is why the companies didn't simply formalize and commit to enhancing the current packages that are out there. Xine, Totem, and others already play MPG, AVI, and even WMV formats--
This seems more like a marketshare play for Real (who is scared of getting streamlined into oblivion by the Evil Empire), especially now that technically Linux has more desktops than Mac. I would guess that Real will take the opportunity to cram all sorts of its bloat and content tie-ins with this, but that the Linux community will tell them to get bent. Another possible play here is that Real hopes to "get in early" for this developing desktop market, and make thier future totally on the content-providing end. I can see them packaging up some sort of MediaServer software to run on company's Linux networks...
davejenkins.com |
come on... we have 2 very polished, mature players out there -- why put time and energy into this "proprietary" project when vlc is probably the best player out there (and already open source)?
-eric
that will play all the normal formats out there, and not be a piece of spyware and crapware, I'll try it. I notice at the site referenced there are zero comments in the forum so far. If anyone feels like registering (I don't, not a developer so it's a waste of time) ask them that question-all the formats, or what? I know that the alternatives like mplayer exist, but frankly, I just can't make mplayer (nor xine nor rhythm box) to actually play any alternative streams. I USED to be able to use mplayer, but I admit defeat, I've spent enough hours on it now, I giveth up. I use xmms that works easily for mp3 streaming and the real player from the bbc to listen to either mp3 or real streams. I haven't been able to listen to a single windows stream on mplayer (or anything else) yet, it attemtps to play it then crashes. Back when I was running RH 7x series, I got it to work quite easily, now, nope, and I downloaded all the dang codecs I could find. I'm a binary guy mostly, I just decided I wasn't going to fool with compiling and flags and suchlike anymore, it shouldn't be needed for normal computer useage unless you are running a source based distro, and I ain't. This is 2004, not 1994.
Anyway, good luck to helix in general, glad to see they keep getting hipper. It's taken a while for real to "get real" I hope the trends continue, and with redhat and novell support, maybe it will. It would be *real dang nice* to have one easily installed player with simple or no config tweaking or putzing with the kernel and modules, etc required that actually *played* everything outta the box.
VLC is already as polished and stable as they come, and it plays a heck of a lot more than Helix Player will ever play (at least in the near future). And it already works on almost every platform imaginable. And it's been open source from the very beginning.
Gstreamer's framework is LGPL'd, so it allows proprietary implementations on top of it - unlike of course Real's Helixplayer. IMHO this is doommed to fail unless they change their licensing plan.
...and all, more proprietary products being GPL'd and all. I love seeing that. - But - Just how is Helix actually better than MPlayer, Xine, gstreamer, etc.? I mean, MPlayer and Xine are probably the most mature stand-alone players there are right now, and gstreamer provides probably the best architecture I've seen, and it's also integrated throughout GNOME (and soon KDE as well, as I've heard). Just what advantages does Helix provide over these?
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But hey guess what; With the new Open Source GPL version everyone who thinks that Real is crap can now take the source code and improve it; making it so its not crap anymore. If you think that real is crap and can suggest ways that it might be better you have an opportunity to go over to the helix developer site and make suggestions that if they are constructive and not overzealous (like your comment) could actually go into making real a better product.
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
It's amazing how many people are so freaking closed mind about anything real does. Real has been doing opensource for a couple of years now trying to fix the problems and complains. Yes, they did listen to the complaints.
"I hate Real it has all that malware and ad crap"
but they've removed it
"I hate Real it has all that malware and ad crap"
It's really better
"I hate Real it has all that malware and ad crap"
ad nausium....come on people. Don't base your opinions on software 2 years old. Try the freeware and newest stuff. Then evaluate it
Check out the following philosophy of A'rpi ( http://mplayerhq.hu/homepage/design7/news-archive. html ) when faced with the concept of Debian packaging mplayer without the codecs (which is what I'm assuming Redhat & company will be doing with Helix):
I think that including an unusable build of an application is even worse than not packaging it at all. It is not only valueless for the users (they will have to remove it and compile the source of the original version), but it gives the application a bad reputation, i.e. advertising it as a useless player being incapable of even playing a simple small file, or an unencrypted DVD (with AC3 sound)... Unfortunately most users won't notice the small comments in distribution specific files (like README.SuSE, or README.Debian) and will tell their friends, magazines (which occasionally write distro reviews) and post on portals/forums that it is a very bad, broken, unusable application.
i see everyone preaching "hurrah no spyware in the Linux player" and "if it has adware inside then just fork"
while the player might be open source/gpl its merely a simple GUI/shell for the codecs which are not being opened in any form whatsoever, codecs are what makes it work (hence real alternative can decode streams)
now if Real was smart they would put any tracking/privacy/evil code inside the pre-compiled binary codec, you can't easily check it (apart from disassembling to ASM in debugger which is probably DMCA infinging anyway)
so while you sit there at your Linux box saying "no adware in here" the reality is you have no idea whats contained in those files as the actual components that do the decoding of the streams is closed source and will likely never be open.
but iam sure every six months as usual a Real(TM) press release/slashdot story will popup and say but the player is open source
in a desperate bid to have their formats accepted by the OSS crowd/decision makers to lend an air of credibility to their companies dubious activities
A>S
Ok, first of all, it's open source player, so it's really not a problem any more about prioritary codecs, about that it is coming from Real (king of bloated player), etc. Yes, Real codecs still will be closed and let them stay in that way if they want to be - it's not a main point this time. I hope at least they will ease distribution of their codecs so they could be included in distros and every distro won't require additional hacking for including them - as it is now. Yes, there are still their official player, but it is very outdated with it's Motif GUI.
Second, there's no worry about it because Helix support Ogg Vorbis/Thedora codecs from the very begining. So, they are open source formats and will play in the Gstreamer enabled apps (Totem) as in Helix.
If there are competition - that's good. Main goal for me in media players is support for patent-free and royality-free codecs. Helix support that. So I don't think that there is something to worry about.
user@ubuntubox:~$ stfu This server is going down for shutdown NOW!
Our business model is changed. We make our money on consumer services like Rhapsody, SuperPass and STARZ! on Real Movies and therefore don't need to pay our staff with software add-ons or advertising.
Download the binary or source and take it for a spin.
Kevin Foreman,
GM, Helix
RealNetworks, Inc.
Kevin Foreman
No one can foresee how successful Helix will become, but I couldn't stop wondering about the possibility of Helix-based NLE. I don't care for Real as far as media format/codecs are concerned. But if GPL'd Helix (with no real codecs) has something to offer, that should be multimedia solutions to Linux.
I may be too naive and optimistic to think about this, though.
No, it's not "doomed to fail" any more than MySQL is "doomed to fail" (which switched from LGPL to GPL, IIRC). Having a means of charging for making proprietary applications means that all people who modify/augment and distribute also contribute one way or another. Either they contribute by making their application open source (adding to the ecosystem), or they contribute financially by licensing the code. In any case, they help perpetuate the platform.
It sucks that we have to compete on so many fronts, but we've been doing it for 9 years in the face of many, many pundits talking about how we're "doomed to fail".
We've gotten tremendous traction in the embedded software space. Many, many, many handset makers have licensed Helix for use in their devices. We have a strong lead in the nascent Linux mobile space with our deal with Motorola. With our announcements today, we're making a great start into the Linux desktop space.
Rob Lanphier
Development Support Manager
RealNetworks
It's about acceptance, not about opening the source.
Real is a company who has continually annoyed many customers (and potential customers) with a barrage of misleading links, advertisements and spy ware in the past. Regardless of the fact that the Linux "version" of Real Player did not contain the junkware, the fact still remains: Real has bad karma and opening up the code will not make end users more reluctant to use the software.
Making the software GPL does not help you instantly erase your past and judging from most of the comments here, many are still quite cynical in regards to Real Networks.
Are you more willing to accept Real now because they've GPL'd some code?
Whenever you read this sig someone's refrigerator light turns on.
First, the Helix Player plays only 100% open source codecs, like Ogg Verbix and Theora.
Second, the RealPlayer 10 for Linux adds to the Helix Player the non-open source components such as RealAudio/RealVideo, MP3 and Flash.
Third, you are perpetuating an urban myth. Our Windows player contains no spyware and never has. Yes, someone filed suit on us, and it was thrown out of court for being a false accusation.
Fourth, our business model is to sell back end webcast transmission software and consumer services like SuperPass and STARZ! on Real Movies.
Fifth, over 50 semiconductor companies have licensed RealAudio and RealVideo SOURCE CODE for optimizing their nect gen chip sets. I would hope you agree that Intel, TI, Motorola, etc. engineers would not tolerate this nonsense.
Rest easy and enjoy you free player on us.
Kevin Foreman
Guys, there are two important messages/audiences here: developers and users.
1) Developers are looking for a standard GPL'd AV framework to built their applications. By adding the GPL to our Helix Player and with Red Hat, Novell, Sun and Turbolinux's support, we hope to catalyze the linux desktop industry to bring our better and faster time to market AV-based applications. We want to avoid a KDE/GNOME fracturing of the industry.
2) Users get the best of both worlds. Besides the 100% GPL'd Helix Player (which plays Vorbis and Theora), the distros will ship a no-cost upgrade the RealPlayer 10 for Linux. The RealPlayer includes the non-open sourced component of MP3, Flash, RealAudio 10 and RealVideo 10.
So, yes the codecs aren't open sourced (We don't own al the IP of RealAudio and RealVideo, and therefore can't even consider GPLing them), develoers and users still getthe best of both worlds.
Enjoy the new players.
Kevin Foreman
A job?
Roses are #FF0000, violets are #0000FF, all my base are belong to you
Second, the RealPlayer 10 for Linux adds to the Helix Player the non-open source components
Will the proprietary legacy codec binaries provided by RealNetworks run on Linux on any CPU architecture other than x86? If not, how much Intel stock does your company own? I'm guessing that because RealNetworks maintains the Intel codecs for free while the "50 semiconductor companies" have to pay both RealNetworks for the source code and their own engineers for the porting effort, non-x86 platforms have a huge barrier to entry.
Spoken like a true salesman. Buzzwords and well practised lines.
"We hope to catalyze the linux desktop industry..."
Rubbish, you're looking to manoeveure Helix into a blossoming linux desktop industry. The linux desktop industry was fine before Helix, will be fine with Helix, and fine after Helix. You're just another company catching the ride on the increasingly popular linux train. (That's not a bad thing or a criticism.)
"...to bring our better and faster time to market AV-based applications."
How are your codecs any "better" and "faster time to market" than Theora or Vorbis? Yes, you support those, but so does many other media players. In real (sic) terms, how is Helix any better than the GStreamer framework or mature apps like MPlayer?
We want to avoid a KDE/GNOME fracturing of the industry.
You mean, you want to dominate the linux AV industry? Or you want to provide a desktop neutral solution? MPlayer and Totem work fine in both KDE and GNOME for me. I'm quite unsure as to what fracturing you refer to.
Throwing salespeak at the crowd is all well and good, but could you at least make it meaningful and specific rather than a few buzzwords / hot topics thrown together?
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